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  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,902
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    Read an interesting article about AI paying (the equivalent of) income tax.

    Trouble is, history tells us that he we do that sooner or later they (the AI) will want the vote. No taxation without representation and all that.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122

    Another scathing assessment of Keir Starmer, this time by YouGov and evidence-based. Oh, wait.....

    "But when looking at these new tests, 45% of British adults think they are reasonable, compared to 31% of voters thinking they are unreasonable. This allows Labour to be seen to be reasonably supporting the government as Article 50 is triggered whilst also hedging its bets so they can later vote against Brexit if public support turns during the re-negotiation period. So, although public don’t yet see these conditions as essential and don’t want Labour to oppose Brexit if the government fails to meet them, there are many reasons why this could end up being a shrewd move by Sir Keir Starmer – especially if public opinion does shift over the next couple of years."

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/has-labour-finally-found-response-its-brexit-dilem/

    For all but one test, people believe that each ‘would be nice to have, but Britain should STILL LEAVE if it is not met’. When taking the package as a whole, just a third (32%) think Labour would be justified in opposing Brexit if all six conditions are not met, compared to over four in ten (44%) who think the party would not be justified. Around a quarter (24%) are not sure. 
    Moreover, the tests the Prime Minister is probably least likely to pass – such as delivering for all regions and nations of the UK, and delivering the "exact same benefits" as Britain currently has from the single market and customs union – are the ones that the public are least likely to be seen as essential. Only 29% and 27% of the public respectively believe the UK should NOT leave if the test is not met.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/03/28/has-labour-finally-found-response-its-brexit-dilem/
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his op
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his opinion

    everybody else is just bored with it

    fuck off
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    isam said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    Finland is
    Thanks. To quote Michael Caine, I did not know that.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    @isam

    All you say is true but you don't have to extrapolate too far to see how killing an injured enemy combatant in the situation in this case can easily move to killing an enemy combatant who for example has surrendered, or who is captured during other phases of war. Or... or...

    I have no doubt it happened and happens but neither the soldiers on the ground, nor indeed patriotic punters such as your good self (I hesitate to say armchair generals) get to decide when and if it's justified.

    Hence the court case which judged, finally, that he was psychologically damaged, not that his actions were justified.

    Obviously a moral conundrum. As I say, even on the Panorama there were Marines saying he did wrong as well as those who backed him up. Maybe I was wrong to say he shouldn't have been tried, (I say maybe as I might only be saying that to shut people up) but I still say I am glad he did what he did, and if I met him I would shake his hand and buy him a drink.
    Recently watching the World at War it was interesting to see how explicit the orders were to 'take no chances at all' with enemy prisoners during the latter parts of the Pacific campaign. I am sure there were wholesale breaches of the Geneva Convention but given the circumstances and the losses the Americans had suffered from suicidal prisoners and injured Japanese I am certainly not willing to condemn them.
    If you read Max Hastings' Nemesis, it's pretty clear US forces broke the Geneva Convention. But then how do you apply it when your opponent does not abide by it? US soldiers could reasonably be expected to risk their lives in battle. They couldn't be expected to risk their lives to save enemy combatants, who were happy to fire on them.
    The TV drama series Pacific underlined that. By the end - on Okinawa - civilian women were "surrending", rushing to the safety of the American lines - and then blowing themselves up to kill US soldiers.

    A pretty horrific choice. You see an Okinawan woman clutching a baby seeking safety in your trench. What do you do?
    Interestingly, on Okinawa, American soldiers risked their lives to save both civilians and Japanese POWs. In the latter case, they prevented the Japanese medical staff in a military hospital murdering their own (yes, Japanese injured soldiers!) - one of the reasons why a larger percentage of POWs was taken on Okinawa.
    Didn't some SS units do similar things? Pretending to be dead and letting a grenade go off as Allied soldiers passed by etc
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    Indeed and the centre right government in Finland has begun to experiment with it
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242

    Mr. Divvie, you're welcome to go and check the threads from 2012 or so to 2014. I probably wrote about 10,000 comments, but my average comment size is quite small :)

    So since the first Indy ref was delegitimised, you'd be quite happy for a second one without EU nationals? Fair enough.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his op
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his opinion

    everybody else is just bored with it

    fuck off
    Ain't that the truth.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    GeoffM said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyan said:

    On the idea of a Scottish DIY referendum and possible subsequent UDI if the result is YES...

    1) Who will force Labour and other non-SNP councils to participate? What happens to legitimacy if Unionists call for abstention from voting in a referendum that would be unlawful? Who pays? What do the courts do if a case is brought for misuse of public funds? If the SNP and their Green associates go ahead with it, how would impartiality be guaranteed? Electoral Reform Commission? International observers? What if the Home Office bans them from entry?

    2) A DIY referendum held by the SNP would remind me of nothing so much as Sinn Fein's "consultation procedures in the four provinces of Ireland". There are some coolheaded people in the SNP, to be sure, but there are also crazies and those who have appalling judgement. For example, former ambassador Craig Murray, whom I respect for many things, said before the indyref that the Orange Order march that was scheduled in Edinburgh on practically the eve of the vote should be banned under the Public Order Act 1936. Anyone who doesn't appreciate what that would have meant should hang about Ibrox on a Saturday afternoon during the football season. Or acquaint themselves with the meaning of the term "orange walk".

    3) Even if the SNP were right and independence is in Scotland's best interest, that would not mean that it is desirable at any price. Sturgeon could show real leadership and admit this. She could say that Scotland is already a grown-up country; that as the First Minister it is her duty to represent unionists as well as supporters of independence; that she has no doubt that the British government will allow a referendum if there are strong indications that a majority of Scottish people are in favour of one; that British law will be respected until a lawful referendum is held; and that even if the British government is being obstreperous, she will not be the one who endangers civil peace, and she recognises that something that's good is worth waiting a year or two for. She could also perhaps find some non-destabilising and lawful areas in which to withdraw cooperation with the central government,

    4) If Sturgeon does stick to the line that "you hold a referendum or else we will", it is May who should show leadership: she should should back down and give the go-ahead for a referendum.

    No, May should stick to her guns and do as the Spanish do and completely ignore any unofficial referendum, the courts will be behind her and as she is in command of the armed forces and not Sturgeon there is little realistically the latter can do about it!
    The Spanish also arrested the organisers. That would be funny!
    And politically dramatic, confrontational, constitutionally explosive etc etc.
    But mostly funny.
    Yes, the Spanish even put them on trial
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Mr. Divvie, you're welcome to go and check the threads from 2012 or so to 2014. I probably wrote about 10,000 comments, but my average comment size is quite small :)

    So since the first Indy ref was delegitimised, you'd be quite happy for a second one without EU nationals? Fair enough.
    I don't think they are that numerous that the result could have changed had you excluded them.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,544

    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    @isam

    All you say is true but you don't have to extrapolate too far to see how killing an injured enemy combatant in the situation in this case can easily move to killing an enemy combatant who for example has surrendered, or who is captured during other phases of war. Or... or...

    I have no doubt it happened and happens but neither the soldiers on the ground, nor indeed patriotic punters such as your good self (I hesitate to say armchair generals) get to decide when and if it's justified.

    Hence the court case which judged, finally, that he was psychologically damaged, not that his actions were justified.

    Obviously a moral conundrum. As I say, even on the Panorama there were Marines saying he did wrong as well as those who backed him up. Maybe I was wrong to say he shouldn't have been tried, (I say maybe as I might only be saying that to shut people up) but I still say I am glad he did what he did, and if I met him I would shake his hand and buy him a drink.
    Recently watching the World at War it was interesting to see how explicit the orders were to 'take no chances at all' with enemy prisoners during the latter parts of the Pacific campaign. I am sure there were wholesale breaches of the Geneva Convention but given the circumstances and the losses the Americans had suffered from suicidal prisoners and injured Japanese I am certainly not willing to condemn them.
    :

    The TV drama series Pacific underlined that. By the end - on Okinawa - civilian women were "surrending", rushing to the safety of the American lines - and then blowing themselves up to kill US soldiers.

    A pretty horrific choice. You see an Okinawan woman clutching a baby seeking safety in your trench. What do you do?
    Interestingly, on Okinawa, American soldiers risked their lives to save both civilians and Japanese POWs. In the latter case, they prevented the Japanese medical staff in a military hospital murdering their own (yes, Japanese injured soldiers!) - one of the reasons why a larger percentage of POWs was taken on Okinawa.
    Didn't some SS units do similar things? Pretending to be dead and letting a grenade go off as Allied soldiers passed by etc
    Yes. Hence the practise of shooting the apparently dead - if they are dead it isn't a crime. If they are faking, it is a legitimate action.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:


    No, May should stick to her guns and do as the Spanish do and completely ignore any unofficial referendum, the courts will be behind her and as she is in command of the armed forces and not Sturgeon there is little realistically the latter can do about it!

    Hm, I am not sure we need to get the army involved!
    Hopefully not but if Sturgeon declared UDI May would have no choice but to dissolve Holyrood, by force if necessary. Alternatively in Spain the president of the government of Catalonia was banned from public office for 2 years for holding an unofficial referendum by a court in Barcelona and also fined, the same penalty could be imposed on Sturgeon if she tries to call an unofficial referendum
    Will May do a Palpatine and order the council dissolved permanently and appoint regional governors to assume direct control? :p
    Now that would be one job I am sure May would be happy to appoint Osborne too!

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    chestnut said:

    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his op
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his opinion

    everybody else is just bored with it

    fuck off
    Ain't that the truth.
    the funny side to it is the selfrighteous posturing on the Nats, They break just about every commitment they have made but expect everybody else to hold to theirs.

    They get additional powers to do what they please with andthen promptly do nothing. Literally nothing.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Divvie, if you're deferring to me the right to accept or refuse a referendum, then I refuse.

    F1: from the BBC gossip column - apparently a plot to steal Enzo Ferrari's corpse has been foiled.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017

    chestnut said:

    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his op
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his opinion

    everybody else is just bored with it

    fuck off
    Ain't that the truth.
    the funny side to it is the selfrighteous posturing on the Nats, They break just about every commitment they have made but expect everybody else to hold to theirs.

    They get additional powers to do what they please with andthen promptly do nothing. Literally nothing.
    The UK Parliament was something like 500-150 Remain until it was put to the people, a perfect example of the 'representatives' not representing.

    May ought to ask the Scottish people if they want another referendum first because the MSPs clearly aren't representing or listening to Scots.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    SNP MPs might start filibustering business in the Commons (especially Brexit-related) if May doesn't give them a referendum, akin to Irish nationalists and Home Rulers in times gone by.

    The problem with all this, for the SNP, is that most Scots voters don't want a vote, not yet.

    Sturgeon does not have a nation united behind her. A dangerous position from which to play constitutional poker.
    That might be right, but I'm not sure the SNP causing chaos in the House of Commons would necessarily piss off Scottish anti-independence voters that much.

    If the Scottish Parliament/Government was still ticking over as usual, but the British Parliament has been ground to a halt and the government is unable to get its business through due to SNP MPs using all the tricks in the book, it seems to me that it would be the Westminster government in whose interest it would be to resolve the situation.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Danny565 said:

    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    SNP MPs might start filibustering business in the Commons (especially Brexit-related) if May doesn't give them a referendum, akin to Irish nationalists and Home Rulers in times gone by.

    The problem with all this, for the SNP, is that most Scots voters don't want a vote, not yet.

    Sturgeon does not have a nation united behind her. A dangerous position from which to play constitutional poker.
    That might be right, but I'm not sure the SNP causing chaos in the House of Commons would necessarily piss off Scottish anti-independence voters that much.

    If the Scottish Parliament/Government was still ticking over as usual, but the British Parliament has been ground to a halt and the government is unable to get its business through due to SNP MPs using all the tricks in the book, it seems to me that the Westminster government in whose interest it would be to resolve the situation.
    if the UK government grinds to a halt then so does Scotland.

    Where do you think the money comes from ?
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    RobD said:

    Mr. Divvie, you're welcome to go and check the threads from 2012 or so to 2014. I probably wrote about 10,000 comments, but my average comment size is quite small :)

    So since the first Indy ref was delegitimised, you'd be quite happy for a second one without EU nationals? Fair enough.
    I don't think they are that numerous that the result could have changed had you excluded them.
    Surely if some foreigners 18+ normally resident in Scotland get the vote then they all should?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    edited March 2017
    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one. Very impressive admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    ROFL

    when he was young you used to march against him
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    Danny565 said:

    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    SNP MPs might start filibustering business in the Commons (especially Brexit-related) if May doesn't give them a referendum, akin to Irish nationalists and Home Rulers in times gone by.

    The problem with all this, for the SNP, is that most Scots voters don't want a vote, not yet.

    Sturgeon does not have a nation united behind her. A dangerous position from which to play constitutional poker.
    That might be right, but I'm not sure the SNP causing chaos in the House of Commons would necessarily piss off Scottish anti-independence voters that much.

    If the Scottish Parliament/Government was still ticking over as usual, but the British Parliament has been ground to a halt and the government is unable to get its business through due to SNP MPs using all the tricks in the book, it seems to me that it would be the Westminster government in whose interest it would be to resolve the situation.
    The Brexit process will dominate Parliament anyway over the next 2 years, the government will not be passing any major legislation during that time
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    IanB2 said:

    Second. Unlike Labour.

    I refuse to make a post about underpants.

    Excuse my technical ignorance, but, re. WhatsApp, if the encryption requires the same code at both sending and receiving devices, to avoid being understood by anyone else, that code presumably has to be sent at some initial point from one device to the other? If so, why cannot anyone who has access to that earlier message (i.e. the service provider) access that communication and then use the code to decrypt later transmissions between the two devices? Or am I missing something?

    They'll use some form of Perfect Forward Secrecy to prevent those kind of shenanigans.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one. Very impressive admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    ROFL

    when he was young you used to march against him
    When he was young and you were pogoing in Rafters Hesseltine WAS a fascist. This is an altogether smarter animal.

    What about your countrywoman? Ex minster for PE.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one. Very impressive admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    ROFL

    when he was young you used to march against him
    When he was young and you were pogoing in Rafters Hesseltine WAS a fascist. This is an altogether smarter animal.

    What about your countrywoman? Ex minster for PE.
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one. Very impressive admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    ROFL

    when he was young you used to march against him
    When he was young and you were pogoing in Rafters Hesseltine WAS a fascist. This is an altogether smarter animal.

    What about your countrywoman? Ex minster for PE.
    he hasnt changed, you have

    your just a Tory these days Roger

    youll never get kissed :-)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Cyan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Happened to catch a bit of Holyrood proceedings.

    Is it the case that the voted for proposal for an independence referendum includes the idiocy of letting EU nationals have the vote?

    Imagine it will be as normal election rules , if you are resident and have main address in Scotland and able to vote in elections then you get a vote.
    On the "main address" bit, are you sure that's the rule for Holyrood elections? If say a British citizen has addresses in both Scotland and England, they can vote in local elections in both places, and I thought they could vote in Westminster elections at whichever one of those places they wanted to. I'm suggesting that in an indyref a British citizen who is on the electoral register in Scotland will be able to vote regardless of whether it's their main address or not. Will stand corrected if mistaken.
    Was recent one in referendum where Cummings bought a house so he could vote and was banned as not his main residence.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:


    No, May should stick to her guns and do as the Spanish do and completely ignore any unofficial referendum, the courts will be behind her and as she is in command of the armed forces and not Sturgeon there is little realistically the latter can do about it!

    Hm, I am not sure we need to get the army involved!
    Hopefully not but if Sturgeon declared UDI May would have no choice but to dissolve Holyrood, by force if necessary. Alternatively in Spain the president of the government of Catalonia was banned from public office for 2 years for holding an unofficial referendum by a court in Barcelona and also fined, the same penalty could be imposed on Sturgeon if she tries to call an unofficial referendum
    Don't be stupid
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Imagine automation on this scale in every sector:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/williamjordann/status/846724309557153797
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Trump repealing various climate change policies.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    I quite like the idea. Is there anything bad about it?

    It works really rather nicely when combined with a flat tax rate.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Omnium said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    I quite like the idea. Is there anything bad about it?

    It works really rather nicely when combined with a flat tax rate.
    The tax rate you'd have to charge is rather high.
  • Options
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    I was surprised to find George Osborne is the editor
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    The trouble is we need the extra profits generated by all those robots and stuff in order to pay the universal income, but the robots and the profits will belong to Megacorp Inc whose shareholders are going to want the profits for themselves, and absent a proper French style revolution rather than just a tech one, they are going to get them.

    Have you read Oscar Wilde's Soul of man under Socialism btw? He was saying just what you are.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561
    edited March 2017

    I was surprised to find George Osborne is the editor
    Well

    1) I have been described as George Osborne's representative in the polling and gambling world

    2) Three years ago it was I who introduced Keiran to Mike Smithson and the rest is history.

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/846795518034526209
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,365

    chestnut said:

    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his op
    Alistair said:

    Noted SNP sycophant (sarcasm) Farquarson on IndyRef2

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/846758048450433024

    in his opinion

    everybody else is just bored with it

    fuck off
    Ain't that the truth.
    the funny side to it is the selfrighteous posturing on the Nats, They break just about every commitment they have made but expect everybody else to hold to theirs.

    They get additional powers to do what they please with andthen promptly do nothing. Literally nothing.
    In fairness we do get the privilege of paying slightly more higher rate tax in Scotland than in England now.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    edited March 2017
    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    SeanT said:

    Oh, and sorry to hear about your friend, Mr. T.

    It's a bitch. Really is. He's a great guy and he's already pretty broke, with a daughter to put through Uni.

    Bittersweet day for me.
    That's going to happen to many, many middle class jobs over the next few decades.

    And the much increased job and financial insecurity will likely be devastating to middle class lifestyles and mentalities - will people be willing to take on university debts or large mortgages if they're uncertain of the future for example. Or for those with secure jobs will they increase their savings rate in fear of potential future change.

    It will be interesting to see what the effects will be and whether governments will be more considerate to middle class insecurities than they were to those of the working class.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    If GfK do ever speak bullsht, I hope the good people in PB header land have the fortitutude to call them out on it.

    In this case however GfK's results are in line with everyone else's and there's no particularly reason to believe anything else.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    murali_s said:

    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
    That's no mystery.

    Trump wasn't one of the other Republican candidates and then he wasn't Hilary Clinton.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122

    SeanT said:

    Oh, and sorry to hear about your friend, Mr. T.

    It's a bitch. Really is. He's a great guy and he's already pretty broke, with a daughter to put through Uni.

    Bittersweet day for me.
    That's going to happen to many, many middle class jobs over the next few decades.

    And the much increased job and financial insecurity will likely be devastating to middle class lifestyles and mentalities - will people be willing to take on university debts or large mortgages if they're uncertain of the future for example. Or for those with secure jobs will they increase their savings rate in fear of potential future change.

    It will be interesting to see what the effects will be and whether governments will be more considerate to middle class insecurities than they were to those of the working class.
    Makes a universal basic income even more necessary to enable more flexible working, though will also inevitably boost further populist parties of both left and right
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,796

    Omnium said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Jonathan said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    Europe. France. Brilliant place. Love the French. Great people. Why the F are we leaving the EU?

    This bipolar swing has nothing, literally NOTHING to do with the fact my French publishers just made a six figure offer for the next two Tremaynes.

    Felicitations, mon ami!
    Merci

    My jouissance is tempered by the fact that one of my best mates, a subeditor at the Telegraph has just been told he's probably losing his job (along with dozens more). He's a very fine writer himself, just took a few wrong turnings, and didn't get the lucky breaks - which I did, undeservedly.

    Life is such a total lottery.
    le hasard ne favorise que les esprits préparés

    That's not to deny that some prepared and good people don't get the lucky breaks they deserve.
    Fortunately we have a welfare state, which means people don't hit rock bottom, get second chances and are not exclusively at the mercy of luck.

    Just imagine what would happen if it were well funded.

    Despite my generally conservative views on the size of government and matters economic, I am intrigued by and open to persuasion re the adoption of a national wage paid to everyone regardless of employment. I think it could be a real boost to the economy, letting people out of minimum jobs that underutilize their talents and ambition and facilitating greater entrepreneurial flair, or the creation of other forms of social value.

    It would be interesting if a medium sized country were to experiment with this so we could have some actual results to assess the theory on.
    We the new tech revolution, automation, robots, drones, AI, etc, we may have no choice but to adopt a universal income.

    I quite like the idea. Is there anything bad about it?

    It works really rather nicely when combined with a flat tax rate.
    The tax rate you'd have to charge is rather high.
    Sure, but as you have free money as a citizen anyway then the effective tax rate for most people will be moderate.

    So, when do we start?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    murali_s said:

    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
    Originally I said I would have voted for him over HRC mostly to keep the Supreme Court safe.

    The more he does this sort of sensible thing, the more I'm liking him overall now.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    BTW, I have managed to book a tasting menu at Michael Caines' new venture at Lympstone Manor in a few weeks - will let you know what I reckon, but from the early reports, you might want to blag a meal there next time you are in the SW....
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    edited March 2017
    GeoffM said:

    murali_s said:

    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
    Originally I said I would have voted for him over HRC mostly to keep the Supreme Court safe.

    The more he does this sort of sensible thing, the more I'm liking him overall now.
    You really are a pathetic piece of ignorant right-wing trash.

    I emphasize the word ignorant. I feel sorry for you...
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    murali_s said:

    GeoffM said:

    murali_s said:

    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
    Originally I said I would have voted for him over HRC mostly to keep the Supreme Court safe.

    The more he does this sort of sensible thing, the more I'm liking him overall now.
    You really a pathetic piece of ignorant right-wing trash.

    I emphasize the word ignorant. I feel sorry for you...
    I love you too xxx
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
  • Options
    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    As Putin stokes his cat and smiles.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    BTW, I have managed to book a tasting menu at Michael Caines' new venture at Lympstone Manor in a few weeks - will let you know what I reckon, but from the early reports, you might want to blag a meal there next time you are in the SW....
    I've never eaten at any of his proper, signature restaurants (tho I did have a pleasant lunch at an Exeter spin off). I've heard he's great.

    While we're talking food, I had literally the best burger of my life the other day. A wagyu beef slider, here, at Inamo, Camden. And they have interactive tables with iPad ordering. Great fun.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d11789169-Reviews-Inamo_Camden-London_England.html
    The hotel that hosted his Exeter venture burnt down. Here's hoping he has more luck at Lympstone.

    He's still behind Raymond Blanc in my affections, but Caines has crafted some superb food. He's certainly up there - you should make the time to try him out.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    Dyslexic. Everyone in advertising/media/film is. I thought you'd know that. Before spell checkers the first question you asked your next PA was could she spell.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    A shame there isn't any pomp and ceremony tomorrow. :D
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    Booking flights out......
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    End of the phoney war.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,041
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    Dyslexic. Everyone i advertising/media/film is. I thought you'd know that. Before spell checkers the first question you asked your next PA was could she spell.
    Cool. Because - believe it or not - I've grown slightly but oddly fond of you, you ridiculous old lefty tampon advertiser, and, of course, I wouldn't wish dementia on anyone, apart from everyone in ISIS.

    Your dyslexia is particularly bad today for some reason, but I'm glad that's all it is.
    Meanwhile Sean you should stop drinking so much because it can cause memory loss. Or worse, memory loss.

    Edit: boom tish.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,085
    The rest of us, even Remain voters, are just getting on with it.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,887
    Roger said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    Booking flights out......
    Hardly... Not many of us are actually multi-millionaires with homes on the Cote D'Azur! ;)
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,887
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    Sean_F said:



    If you read Max Hastings' Nemesis, it's pretty clear US forces broke the Geneva Convention. But then how do you apply it when your opponent does not abide by it? US soldiers could reasonably be expected to risk their lives in battle. They couldn't be expected to risk their lives to save enemy combatants, who were happy to fire on them.

    My understanding from my uncle (who was inter alia at Arnhem) was that we were not always clean either - prisoners would be taken if it was seen as practical but sometimes shot if it was seen as too difficult in the middle of a battle. He didn't favour ignoring it, though, just taking into account any mitigating circumstances. Killing prisoners in cold blood without a battle in progress is another matter, and if that becomes tolerated on grounds of stress, revenge, etc. then military discipline has completely broken down.

    But I ccept that we are all a bit holier than thou from the comfort of our armchairs.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,085
    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Good skiing, sound money and Schengen.

    I could live with that.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,917
    murali_s said:

    GeoffM said:

    murali_s said:

    Danny565 said:

    Trump repealing various climate change policies.

    Yep.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-climate-change-barack-obama-rollback-executive-order-a7654866.html

    The guy continues to prove what an ignorant lunatic he is.

    How so many people voted for him remains a mystery to me...
    Originally I said I would have voted for him over HRC mostly to keep the Supreme Court safe.

    The more he does this sort of sensible thing, the more I'm liking him overall now.
    You really are a pathetic piece of ignorant right-wing trash.

    I emphasize the word ignorant. I feel sorry for you...
    Maybe he just enjoys annoying you.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    edited March 2017

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time.

    Here in Surrey they're switched off at midnight.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    BTW, I have managed to book a tasting menu at Michael Caines' new venture at Lympstone Manor in a few weeks - will let you know what I reckon, but from the early reports, you might want to blag a meal there next time you are in the SW....
    I've never eaten at any of his proper, signature restaurants (tho I did have a pleasant lunch at an Exeter spin off). I've heard he's great.

    While we're talking food, I had literally the best burger of my life the other day. A wagyu beef slider, here, at Inamo, Camden. And they have interactive tables with iPad ordering. Great fun.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d11789169-Reviews-Inamo_Camden-London_England.html
    The hotel that hosted his Exeter venture burnt down. Here's hoping he has more luck at Lympstone.

    He's still behind Raymond Blanc in my affections, but Caines has crafted some superb food. He's certainly up there - you should make the time to try him out.
    Yes, that's the hotel I ate in. Nice food, but absurdly overpriced champagne. That fire was a total tragedy, it was one of the oldest hotels in England I think, and one of the last nice bits of Exeter, once a glorious medieval city.

    "Exeter was a jewel, and we have destroyed it" - Hermann Goering. C*nt.
    Didn't he used to have a Marylebone restaraunt at one point? I ate there. It was good but not amazing.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    BTW, I have managed to book a tasting menu at Michael Caines' new venture at Lympstone Manor in a few weeks - will let you know what I reckon, but from the early reports, you might want to blag a meal there next time you are in the SW....
    I've never eaten at any of his proper, signature restaurants (tho I did have a pleasant lunch at an Exeter spin off). I've heard he's great.

    While we're talking food, I had literally the best burger of my life the other day. A wagyu beef slider, here, at Inamo, Camden. And they have interactive tables with iPad ordering. Great fun.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d11789169-Reviews-Inamo_Camden-London_England.html
    The hotel that hosted his Exeter venture burnt down. Here's hoping he has more luck at Lympstone.

    He's still behind Raymond Blanc in my affections, but Caines has crafted some superb food. He's certainly up there - you should make the time to try him out.
    Yes, that's the hotel I ate in. Nice food, but absurdly overpriced champagne. That fire was a total tragedy, it was one of the oldest hotels in England I think, and one of the last nice bits of Exeter, once a glorious medieval city.

    "Exeter was a jewel, and we have destroyed it" - Hermann Goering. C*nt.
    Didn't he used to have a Marylebone restaraunt at one point? I ate there. It was good but not amazing.
    Goering had a Marylebone restaurant?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Roger said:

    Why wasn't there a young Hesseltine when we needed one! Very impressive. Admittedly Kate Hoey isn't the brightest candle in the box but Hesseltine is still a class act

    (Ch4)

    Your spelling is completely fucked, old bean. Have you noticed? Clackton. Hesseltine. Dordoine.

    I don't want to worry you, but it may be time to, uh, see the old neurodudes, and get an MRI
    BTW, I have managed to book a tasting menu at Michael Caines' new venture at Lympstone Manor in a few weeks - will let you know what I reckon, but from the early reports, you might want to blag a meal there next time you are in the SW....
    I've never eaten at any of his proper, signature restaurants (tho I did have a pleasant lunch at an Exeter spin off). I've heard he's great.

    While we're talking food, I had literally the best burger of my life the other day. A wagyu beef slider, here, at Inamo, Camden. And they have interactive tables with iPad ordering. Great fun.

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d11789169-Reviews-Inamo_Camden-London_England.html
    The hotel that hosted his Exeter venture burnt down. Here's hoping he has more luck at Lympstone.

    He's still behind Raymond Blanc in my affections, but Caines has crafted some superb food. He's certainly up there - you should make the time to try him out.
    Yes, that's the hotel I ate in. Nice food, but absurdly overpriced champagne. That fire was a total tragedy, it was one of the oldest hotels in England I think, and one of the last nice bits of Exeter, once a glorious medieval city.

    "Exeter was a jewel, and we have destroyed it" - Hermann Goering. C*nt.
    Didn't he used to have a Marylebone restaraunt at one point? I ate there. It was good but not amazing.
    Hermann Goering?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,917

    Sean_F said:



    If you read Max Hastings' Nemesis, it's pretty clear US forces broke the Geneva Convention. But then how do you apply it when your opponent does not abide by it? US soldiers could reasonably be expected to risk their lives in battle. They couldn't be expected to risk their lives to save enemy combatants, who were happy to fire on them.

    My understanding from my uncle (who was inter alia at Arnhem) was that we were not always clean either - prisoners would be taken if it was seen as practical but sometimes shot if it was seen as too difficult in the middle of a battle. He didn't favour ignoring it, though, just taking into account any mitigating circumstances. Killing prisoners in cold blood without a battle in progress is another matter, and if that becomes tolerated on grounds of stress, revenge, etc. then military discipline has completely broken down.

    But I ccept that we are all a bit holier than thou from the comfort of our armchairs.
    One of the most gruesome bits was reading about Japanese soldiers retreating into underground fortresses. The Americans didn't fight their way in. They pumped in millions of gallons of seawater mixed with oil and petrol and set light to it.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,380

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    End of the phoney war.
    LEAVERS = RAF
    EU = Luftwaffe
    REMOANERS = Mosley & co.
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    End of the phoney war.
    Just remember that the C.O. doesn't want anyone taking their crate up for an engine test over the Channel. Jerry will be along soon enough so there's no need to go looking for trouble.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    SeanT said:


    I've been to zillions of restaurants in my job, all over the world, some of the best in the world, Paris to LA, Lima to Bhutan, Tokyo to Venice to Barcelona to blah blah.

    The only actual chefs who've made me think Fuck this is Amazing, such that I've remembered their names for years afterwards are Heston Blumenthal at Dinner, Alfonso Crescenzo at the Praia Art Resort Calabria, and Marco Pierre White way back in the day, when he was in Wandsworth as a young man.

    Marco Pierre White was the best of them all, I reckon.

    The three greatest meals I have ever had (in no particular order) are:

    1. Pierre Gangiere in Paris in 1999. The first Michelin three star restaraunt I ever ate in, and it was extraordinary.

    2. Guy Savoy in Paris in 2006. Extraordinarily inventive, and a lot of fun.

    3. The Fat Duck in 2006. England had just qualified for the Quarter Finals of some football tournament. I called them on the off chance they had people return tables, and they said "we have a table for six for lunch if you want it". Yes! I said. My wife and four of our friends turned up and had the most monumental meal and piss up, and they only threw us out when the dinner guests started arriving.

    The single most over-rated meal of my life was in Monaco at Louis XVI, which cost EUR1,200 for two people, and was very, very average French food. My wife and I had the closest age gap of any of the couples in the place by at least 15 years.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,380
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    Sunil: I'm ready, man, check it out! I am the ultimate Brexiteer! State of the Brexiteer art! You do not wanna f*** with me. Check it out! Hey SeanT, don't worry. Me and my squad of ultimate Brexiteers will protect you! Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phased plasma pulse rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...

    RobD: Knock it off, Sunil!
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    edited March 2017
    RoyalBlue said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
    An obsolete, museum piece forever stuck on the ground cos of elf & safety and lack of cash? Not sure if hurtling down the runway is an option.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,380

    RoyalBlue said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
    An obsolete, museum piece forever stuck on the ground cos of elf & safety and lack of cash? Not sure if hurtling down the runway is an option.
    They did well in 1982 - never heard of Black Buck?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
    You know what: MiFID - while excessively rule bound, and comples - is absolutely right. There was a great deal of casual corruption in fund management, where (indirectly) people's savings were used to pay for commissions which were used to fund entertainment.

    My shop had a rule: the broker never pays. Because you should never feel beholden. And while I'm sure we were far from the only ones, a system where people bought commission via lunches, and other treats was open to abuse. And was abused horribly.
  • Options

    RoyalBlue said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
    An obsolete, museum piece forever stuck on the ground cos of elf & safety and lack of cash? Not sure of hurtling down the runway is an option.
    I remember them taking off over the golf course at RAF Lossiemouth and the noise was unbelievable as they climbed near vertical - they were magnificient
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059
    Fact of the day: there is a Hermann Goering Strasse in Windhoek.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,059

    RoyalBlue said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
    An obsolete, museum piece forever stuck on the ground cos of elf & safety and lack of cash? Not sure of hurtling down the runway is an option.
    I remember them taking off over the golf course at RAF Lossiemouth and the noise was unbelievable as they climbed near vertical - they were magnificient
    Utterly. An extraordinary engineering achievement.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,962
    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
    For me, it's standing on the bow of a ship, looking out to sea. We, the crew, have mutinied. The captain has been keelhauled and the rag-tag sailors who didn't quite believe we were doing it are now standing on the deck, looking out at an uncertain future. We may fail - horribly. We may be captured and hung. We may discover our own perfect little island.

    For now, all that matters - is we're free.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    edited March 2017

    RoyalBlue said:

    SeanT said:

    I'm feeling almost guilty. On Brexit Eve - literally, Brexit Eve - my French publishers, as mentioned downthread, have made that outstandingly generous offer for new Tremayne thrillers.

    I am, by way of repayment, drinking vintage Veuve Clicquot. 2008.

    But there is a genuine hint of guilt. Weird.

    Britain is like an Avro Vulcan hurtling down the runway. Triggering Article 50 is like v1; we won't be airborne, but it will no longer be possible to abort the takeoff safely.

    Into the air we go!
    An obsolete, museum piece forever stuck on the ground cos of elf & safety and lack of cash? Not sure if hurtling down the runway is an option.
    They did well in 1982 - never heard of Black Buck?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
    And now they can't even get off the ground.
    But it's not my metaphor.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
    You know what: MiFID - while excessively rule bound, and comples - is absolutely right. There was a great deal of casual corruption in fund management, where (indirectly) people's savings were used to pay for commissions which were used to fund entertainment.

    My shop had a rule: the broker never pays. Because you should never feel beholden. And while I'm sure we were far from the only ones, a system where people bought commission via lunches, and other treats was open to abuse. And was abused horribly.
    Well of course a lot has changed since the lunches days but the point as you will know is that it has been the FCA which has been much of the motivating force behind MiFID, in terms of unbundling, transparency, etc and now we are on the outside of the actual rule-making body.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,122
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    Brexit Eve, I don't know how the Rees-Moggs, Duncan Smith's, Cashes, Redwoods, Carswell's and Farages of this world will be able to sleep tonight with all the excitement, waiting for Santa May to bring their great big present tomorrow!
  • Options
    kyf_100 said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
    For me, it's standing on the bow of a ship, looking out to sea. We, the crew, have mutinied. The captain has been keelhauled and the rag-tag sailors who didn't quite believe we were doing it are now standing on the deck, looking out at an uncertain future. We may fail - horribly. We may be captured and hung. We may discover our own perfect little island.

    For now, all that matters - is we're free.
    As a former remainer now a leaver I am content the will of the people is being enacted tomorrow but I will only celebrate when we have achieved a successful deal
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    kyf_100 said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
    For me, it's standing on the bow of a ship, looking out to sea. We, the crew, have mutinied. The captain has been keelhauled and the rag-tag sailors who didn't quite believe we were doing it are now standing on the deck, looking out at an uncertain future. We may fail - horribly. We may be captured and hung. We may discover our own perfect little island.

    For now, all that matters - is we're free.
    Good analogy what with the Captain being an expert, an' all.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    kyf_100 said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
    For me, it's standing on the bow of a ship, looking out to sea. We, the crew, have mutinied. The captain has been keelhauled and the rag-tag sailors who didn't quite believe we were doing it are now standing on the deck, looking out at an uncertain future. We may fail - horribly. We may be captured and hung. We may discover our own perfect little island.

    For now, all that matters - is we're free.
    To quote the white paper: Parliament was always sovereign, it just didn't feel like that.

    It's all about feelings. Facts don't matter, they never do.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    Brexit Eve, I don't know how the Rees-Moggs, Duncan Smith's, Cashes, Redwoods, Carswell's and Farages of this world will be able to sleep tonight with all the excitement, waiting for Santa May to bring their great big present tomorrow!
    Tonight it's a bit of luck MrsM is on the Pill.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400

    kyf_100 said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    It's quiet out there, isn't it?

    The hush of a Spring Evening. Brexit Eve. A nation waits. Tense. Yet hopeful. Listening to that quietly cantering fetal heartbeat.

    I think it's more like resignation here in London. Probably street parties outside the M25...
    For me, it's standing on the bow of a ship, looking out to sea. We, the crew, have mutinied. The captain has been keelhauled and the rag-tag sailors who didn't quite believe we were doing it are now standing on the deck, looking out at an uncertain future. We may fail - horribly. We may be captured and hung. We may discover our own perfect little island.

    For now, all that matters - is we're free.
    To quote the white paper: Parliament was always sovereign, it just didn't feel like that.

    It's all about feelings. Facts don't matter, they never do.
    Ah yes I'd forgotten that gem.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
    You have a point - though you ignore the fact that QMV means that the UK could be overridden / ignored even when a member of the rule-making body - if the City and its interests were the only things that mattered.

    But the UK is something more than the City and economic factors are not the only ones which matter.

    As the late, great Seamus Heaney said: "We are not simply a credit rating or an economy but a history and a culture, a human population rather than a statistical phenomenon."

  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    If GfK do ever speak bullsht, I hope the good people in PB header land have the fortitutude to call them out on it.

    In this case however GfK's results are in line with everyone else's and there's no particularly reason to believe anything else.
    This poll is slightly more Labour friendly than the consensus position, isn't it?
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    38 years ago today, the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour Government, paving the way for Thatcher.

    Personally I prefer the Irish MP who went to Westminster to abstain in person.

    Why does everyone always forget the Libs (apart from the usual reasons)?
    'Cause the Libs have form for going into government with the Tories.

    I'd expect so much better from the SNP, who turned out to be the midwife of Thatcherism.
    Nah, I blame Frank Maguire, as he abstained in person :)
    As did Gerry Fitt.
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
    You know what: MiFID - while excessively rule bound, and comples - is absolutely right. There was a great deal of casual corruption in fund management, where (indirectly) people's savings were used to pay for commissions which were used to fund entertainment.

    My shop had a rule: the broker never pays. Because you should never feel beholden. And while I'm sure we were far from the only ones, a system where people bought commission via lunches, and other treats was open to abuse. And was abused horribly.
    My first City job was at the IMRO !!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,400
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    If we end up like Switzerland and Norway, I'll be happy. I think most people will.

    Switzerland is having an interesting time equivalence-wise. In short, in order to get it before Jan next year (MiFID) they are doing absolutely everything the ECB tells them to.

    Some control.
    I think we will keep 90% or more of MiFID/MiFIR. First, it is a key area for UK firms and second, precisely because MiFID is so regulatorily complex nobody would create a parallel system just so British firms could be covered by both.
    Well exactly. And all further regulatory measures will be formulated without us and yet we will have to implement them.
    You have a point - though you ignore the fact that QMV means that the UK could be overridden / ignored even when a member of the rule-making body - if the City and its interests were the only things that mattered.

    But the UK is something more than the City and economic factors are not the only ones which matter.

    As the late, great Seamus Heaney said: "We are not simply a credit rating or an economy but a history and a culture, a human population rather than a statistical phenomenon."

    No indeed but really was reclaiming the sovereignty which we always had worth giving that all up for?
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    rcs1000 said:

    Fact of the day: there is a Hermann Goering Strasse in Windhoek.

    His father was Governor General of German SW Africa.
This discussion has been closed.