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  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    The anti-Brexit marches probably don't even get into the top 10 in terms of support.

    Just wait until we're on the brink of crashing out without a deal...
    At that point I wont just be meting up with a few PBers for drinks Ill be partying like its 1846!
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Gin, I was banned once.

    It was an administrative error, and quickly corrected.

    ....

    Honestly, writing that reminds me of Philip Schofield's heroics today.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Mortimer should consider his absence as a mark of honour on PB. All the best posters .... cough cough .... have from time to time been wrapped over the knuckles by OGH ....

    I recall in the genesis of PB, when Mike still managed a comb over and SeanT was only attracting female cockroaches in a gloomy garret, that PB's most consummate Jacobite incurred the wrath of the powers that be by penning a comment about Iain Dale ....

    Sadly the offenders name escapes me .....

    Iain Dale is clearly the blogging world's version of Mohammad. I once got moderated on here for describing him as being 'as drunk as a skunk'..
    What did I tell you ?!? .... all the best posters .. :smiley:
    True gentlemen still recoil with distain at your wholly unprovoked and profoundly ungallant jibes at the most fragrant Ms Nuala Byrne - she never fully recovered and no longer posts here.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Susan Greenfield would be a good choice!
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited March 2017
    Pong said:

    Hurrah

    twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/845290748945805313

    I wouldn't bother, Kinnock is nailed on according to the polls.
    There was a late move to the tories in the betting markets.

    Con most seats;

    April 8th 1992: 3/1
    April 9th 1992: 4/5

    [snip]

    I'd have probably backed Lab @ 5/4 based on the polls.
    They'd have been 10/11 - no Betfair in those days :p

    Hell of a [justified!] late move that.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Step forward, Cyclefree.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Are you offering your services Miss Cyclefree?

    For a very modest fee, naturally.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Susan Greenfield would be a good choice!
    Susan Greenfield lost me a lot of money once.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Susan Greenfield would be a good choice!
    Susan Greenfield lost me a lot of money once.
    ????????
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    They are merely keeping good company with other worldwide progressives :D

    https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/blog/2017/3/13/spot-the-woman-saudi-girls-council-photo-goes-viral
  • Options
    ChaosOdinChaosOdin Posts: 67
    There is a great bit where they interview Ben Elton and you can see the fury in his eyes. He largely seems to blame the media.

    I do love watching a bad loser.
  • Options
    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441

    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    Was Mortimer really red carded for organising a shindig?!

    The follicly challenged overlord stroked his cat then smote him. Banished for presuming.
    To be honest Mike does have a point. What would happen if Mortimer was a psychopath who, having lured various PBers to this place, proceeded to carve them up with a machete? Mike would certainly be investigated as some kind of accomplice.
    No he wouldn't. That's akin to suggesting Mark Zuckerberg would be investigated as an accomplice if someone lured Facebook members to a meeting and attacked them.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,987
    ChaosOdin said:

    There is a great bit where they interview Ben Elton and you can see the fury in his eyes. He largely seems to blame the media.

    I do love watching a bad loser.
    Stay tuned
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    isam said:

    ChaosOdin said:

    There is a great bit where they interview Ben Elton and you can see the fury in his eyes. He largely seems to blame the media.

    I do love watching a bad loser.
    Stay tuned
    I saw it a few years ago.

    The best part of the drip, drip of expected Labour seats to expected Tory ones.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited March 2017
    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    FPT: Outstanding results. Are they really outsiders in Gorton ? Afzal Khan's nomination may have just saved Labour - but I am not too sure.

    LD should only campaign on a Brexit referendum at the end of the negotiations.

    Why did the Tory vote collapse yesterday ?
  • Options

    isam said:

    ChaosOdin said:

    There is a great bit where they interview Ben Elton and you can see the fury in his eyes. He largely seems to blame the media.

    I do love watching a bad loser.
    Stay tuned
    I saw it a few years ago.

    The best part of the drip, drip of expected Labour seats to expected Tory ones.
    Gordon Brown saying that the Tories had lost their moral authority to govern was a highlight for me.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,371
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    It just shows (again) how far Trump is away from being any kind of conventional politician and how plain weird American Republicans are as a set (or sect, take your pick). I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    Mortimer should consider his absence as a mark of honour on PB. All the best posters .... cough cough .... have from time to time been wrapped over the knuckles by OGH ....

    I recall in the genesis of PB, when Mike still managed a comb over and SeanT was only attracting female cockroaches in a gloomy garret, that PB's most consummate Jacobite incurred the wrath of the powers that be by penning a comment about Iain Dale ....

    Sadly the offenders name escapes me .....

    LOL! Sounds funny - To be fair I think Ian Dale has incurred the wrath of pretty much everyone on here (well those of us around during his Blogging days anyway) at one time or another!

    Fancy the Jacobite Rogue being sin-binned though... :smiley:
    It was a blood replacement rather than the sin-bin ..... er apparently ....

    Blood on the carpet !!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,359
    edited March 2017
    Cyclefree said:



    I'm not sure that the US Constitution has worked very well, because it (like the European one) fudged the federal/confederal choices, to the point that you could say that a 6-year civil war was fought over how to interpret it. It is still fundmaentally broken, in that
    (a) it's undemocratic, giving small states disproportionate Senate representation and electoral college representation (which is why Clinton got a popular majority and Trump got an EC majority)
    (b) it delegates the fixing of bouyndaries to partisan local bodies who routinely gerrymander
    (c) the separation of powers only works to the extent of preventing bad things from happening, but builds in deadlocks which make it difficult to progress in any direction, as Trump is now finding despite a majority in both Houses


    (a) and (c) are features not bugs. The framers wanted to stop autocracy and wanted to make sure that even small states got equal representation. Both are good things.

    The idea that US democracy is fundamentally broken is a curious one, mind.

    And I thought that the Lisbon Treaty was not meant to be a constitution. Or is it only one when it is used to show how much better it is than the US one?
    Giving small states disproportionate representation might be a good thing (though when you consider how randomly the state borders evolved, it's hard to justify), but it's certainly not democratic in the sense of equal representation, viz. the effect that a majority of votes doesn't necessarily deliver a winner (Britain has the same problem). And the near-inability to exercise popular will (conservative, liberal, whatever) through effective elected government is surely hard to reconcile with meaningful democracy.

    You're saying you like the undemocratic effects (in particular, I guess, that it's difficult to get radical change through), and that's a perfectly valid small-c conservative viewpoint, but not to be confused with being a model of representational democracy. And as I said to David, Americans, as shown by the polls, generally feel it's a great country whose politicial institutions unfortunately don't really work.

    I don't think either of us were talking about Lisbon in particular? Europe doesn't have a constitution, but it has a general direction of travel that the major players within it don't much like. That's the underlying problem. It could work as a confederal state without any intention to come together, or as a federal state moving towards unity, but what we actually have is a de facto confederal state paying lip-service to unity and occasionally making a token gesture in that direction. For example, now and then someone says it'd be good to have a European Army. Does it happen, though? No.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792

    I'm not an expert on activities to entertain 10 year olds, but I understand that wall-climbing can be very popular with some.

    I'd second the climbing suggestion. If she enjoys it, that's weekend fixed for the foreseeable future.
    Great exercise for those who hate team sports.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Blue_rog said:

    Charles said:

    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Susan Greenfield would be a good choice!
    Susan Greenfield lost me a lot of money once.
    ????????
    She thought she'd discovered the cure for Alzheimer's. She was wrong.

    (LOL! Just checked, and apparently my godfather still has 1.8m shares in the company. Not worth anything though!)
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Austria-Hungary became *more* decentralised after 1867, not less, with DevoMax given to Hungary, to the extent that apart from on foreign and defence matters, there was no central government (not that the Hungarians passed it on to their own minorities). But for practical purposes, the Habsburg empire predates 1848 by at least two centuries.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    JohnO said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Mortimer should consider his absence as a mark of honour on PB. All the best posters .... cough cough .... have from time to time been wrapped over the knuckles by OGH ....

    I recall in the genesis of PB, when Mike still managed a comb over and SeanT was only attracting female cockroaches in a gloomy garret, that PB's most consummate Jacobite incurred the wrath of the powers that be by penning a comment about Iain Dale ....

    Sadly the offenders name escapes me .....

    Iain Dale is clearly the blogging world's version of Mohammad. I once got moderated on here for describing him as being 'as drunk as a skunk'..
    What did I tell you ?!? .... all the best posters .. :smiley:
    True gentlemen still recoil with distain at your wholly unprovoked and profoundly ungallant jibes at the most fragrant Ms Nuala Byrne - she never fully recovered and no longer posts here.
    Twas a messy matter with Ms Nuala .... a tempestuous affair replete with a torridness not seen since those sordid scenes we all remember with Sooty and Sue .... :smiley:
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited March 2017
    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Mortimer should consider his absence as a mark of honour on PB. All the best posters .... cough cough .... have from time to time been wrapped over the knuckles by OGH ....

    I recall in the genesis of PB, when Mike still managed a comb over and SeanT was only attracting female cockroaches in a gloomy garret, that PB's most consummate Jacobite incurred the wrath of the powers that be by penning a comment about Iain Dale ....

    Sadly the offenders name escapes me .....

    Iain Dale is clearly the blogging world's version of Mohammad. I once got moderated on here for describing him as being 'as drunk as a skunk'..
    What did I tell you ?!? .... all the best posters .. :smiley:
    True gentlemen still recoil with distain at your wholly unprovoked and profoundly ungallant jibes at the most fragrant Ms Nuala Byrne - she never fully recovered and no longer posts here.
    Twas a messy matter with Ms Nuala .... a tempestuous affair replete with a torridness not seen since those sordid scenes we all remember with Sooty and Sue .... :smiley:
    A girl named Soo and Sweep made a gruesome threesome. At least Ms Nuala had Sir Malcolm....
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
    Indeed. I have worked in I.T. for 30 years, mostly retail database design and configuration management.

    I can program in a dozen programming languages across a range of machine types from PCs to IBM Mid-Range machines (AS/400 as was, aka IBM Power Systems these days). For the last 20 years, I have run my own business providing consultancy, Linux server hosting and custom software design. My customers have ranged from one-person companies to High St supermarkets.

    Most people I deal for the first time think I am the receptionist or the boss's secretary ...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    O/T - I can't imagine Le Pen's stunt in Moscow today will help her electorally.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    edited March 2017

    Pong said:

    Hurrah

    twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/845290748945805313

    I wouldn't bother, Kinnock is nailed on according to the polls.
    There was a late move to the tories in the betting markets.

    Con most seats;

    April 8th 1992: 3/1
    April 9th 1992: 4/5

    [snip]

    I'd have probably backed Lab @ 5/4 based on the polls.
    They'd have been 10/11 - no Betfair in those days :p

    Hell of a [justified!] late move that.
    I'd love to see the next Tory leader market on April 8th 1992.

    Probably Heseltine, Hurd, Patten, and Clarke the favourites, Hague 66/1?

    I'd have been laying Hurd and Heseltine; which has to be the best bit of aftertiming in the history of PB.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420
    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    It's perfectly logical to dislike the EU, vote to leave and then modify your view in the light of new information coming to light. So for instance if you now realise that the kind of relationship with the EU you would prefer isn't actually available then staying in might now seem like the best bet after all.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    JohnO said:

    A girl named Soo and Sweep made a gruesome threesome. At least Ms Nuala had Sir Malcolm....

    Indeed .. there will always be Sir Malcolm ..

    How's the Surrey coup progressing - any more blood on the carpet ?

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. Glenn, what has Comrade Pennovska been doing?

  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Let it go mate. We've all missed that chance to become Europe's superdynasty. Move on.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    In all these things the degree of significance you attach is directly linked to how much you like the result.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    Are you offering your services Miss Cyclefree?

    For a very modest fee, naturally.
    I do lots and lots of talks - 60 plus at the last count, the most recent two days ago. I do not (yet) charge a fee.

    But one day - when I am not employed by my current employer - I will do. And I will be worth every penny.

    Meanwhile I am building my brand.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    Cyclefree said:



    the US Constitution is still fundmaentally broken, in that
    (a) it's undemocratic, giving small states disproportionate Senate representation and electoral college representation (which is why Clinton got a popular majority and Trump got an EC majority)
    (b) it delegates the fixing of bouyndaries to partisan local bodies who routinely gerrymander
    (c) the separation of powers only works to the extent of preventing bad things from happening, but builds in deadlocks which make it difficult to progress in any direction, as Trump is now finding despite a majority in both Houses


    (a) and (c) are features not bugs. The framers wanted to stop autocracy and wanted to make sure that even small states got equal representation. Both are good things.

    The idea that US democracy is fundamentally broken is a curious one, mind.

    And I thought that the Lisbon Treaty was not meant to be a constitution. Or is it only one when it is used to show how much better it is than the US one?
    Giving small states disproportionate representation might be a good thing (though when you consider how randomly the state borders evolved, it's hard to justify), but it's certainly not democratic in the sense of equal representation, viz. the effect that a majority of votes doesn't necessarily deliver a winner (Britain has the same problem). And the near-inability to exercise popular will (conservative, liberal, whatever) through effective elected government is surely hard to reconcile with meaningful democracy.

    You're saying you like the undemocratic effects (in particular, I guess, that it's difficult to get radical change through), and that's a perfectly valid small-c conservative viewpoint, but not to be confused with being a model of representational democracy. And as I said to David, Americans, as shown by the polls, generally feel it's a great country whose politicial institutions unfortunately don't really work.

    I don't think either of us were talking about Lisbon in particular? Europe doesn't have a constitution, but it has a general direction of travel that the major players within it don't much like. That's the underlying problem. It could work as a confederal state without any intention to come together, or as a federal state moving towards unity, but what we actually have is a de facto confederal state paying lip-service to unity and occasionally making a token gesture in that direction. For example, now and then someone says it'd be good to have a European Army. Does it happen, though? No.

    The single currency and common borderless travel area are more than gestures.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
    Indeed. I have worked in I.T. for 30 years, mostly retail database design and configuration management.

    I can program in a dozen programming languages across a range of machine types from PCs to IBM Mid-Range machines (AS/400 as was, aka IBM Power Systems these days). For the last 20 years, I have run my own business providing consultancy, Linux server hosting and custom software design. My customers have ranged from one-person companies to High St supermarkets.

    Most people I deal for the first time think I am the receptionist or the boss's secretary ...
    Can you get spider solitaire XP to work on windows 10?
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited March 2017

    Pong said:

    Hurrah

    twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/845290748945805313

    I wouldn't bother, Kinnock is nailed on according to the polls.
    There was a late move to the tories in the betting markets.

    Con most seats;

    April 8th 1992: 3/1
    April 9th 1992: 4/5

    [snip]

    I'd have probably backed Lab @ 5/4 based on the polls.
    They'd have been 10/11 - no Betfair in those days :p

    Hell of a [justified!] late move that.
    I'd love to see the next Tory leader market on April 8th 1992.

    Probably Heseltine, Hurd, Patten, and Clarke the favourites, Hague 66/1?

    I'd have been laying Hurd and Heseltine; which has to be the best bit of aftertiming in the history of PB.
    I was on the 50/1 in 1974:
    image
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,222

    Cyclefree said:





    (a) and (c) are features not bugs. The framers wanted to stop autocracy and wanted to make sure that even small states got equal representation. Both are good things.

    The idea that US democracy is fundamentally broken is a curious one, mind.

    And I thought that the Lisbon Treaty was not meant to be a constitution. Or is it only one when it is used to show how much better it is than the US one?
    Giving small states disproportionate representation might be a good thing (though when you consider how randomly the state borders evolved, it's hard to justify), but it's certainly not democratic in the sense of equal representation, viz. the effect that a majority of votes doesn't necessarily deliver a winner (Britain has the same problem). And the near-inability to exercise popular will (conservative, liberal, whatever) through effective elected government is surely hard to reconcile with meaningful democracy.

    You're saying you like the undemocratic effects (in particular, I guess, that it's difficult to get radical change through), and that's a perfectly valid small-c conservative viewpoint, but not to be confused with being a model of representational democracy. And as I said to David, Americans, as shown by the polls, generally feel it's a great country whose politicial institutions unfortunately don't really work.

    I don't think either of us were talking about Lisbon in particular? Europe doesn't have a constitution, but it has a general direction of travel that the major players within it don't much like. That's the underlying problem. It could work as a confederal state without any intention to come together, or as a federal state moving towards unity, but what we actually have is a de facto confederal state paying lip-service to unity and occasionally making a token gesture in that direction. For example, now and then someone says it'd be good to have a European Army. Does it happen, though? No.


    I don't like the undemocratic effects. I was pointing out that these two features were intended by the founders. There is equal representation in the Senate for all states but Congress is based on size of population. So it is not quite as undemocratic as you make out. Indeed, I don't think it is undemocratic at all. The second is less about having a small state but more about preventing an over-mighty ruler. US Presidents can achieve change but they have to get agreement, as much agreement as possible, to do so. That seems to me to be a good thing.

    I agree with your final paragraph that Europe's current set up is a fudge. Some clearer thinking and proper debate might have avoided that.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mrs C, that is a good line.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,940

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    and here's another less than meaningful swing -32% from Lab to LD in the North West ward of Prescott Town Council. To add to that the Greens won the East ward with 69% of the vote while the Labour vote went down from 72% to 31%. Was there a pact between the Greens and the Lib Dems I wonder?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,060

    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

    I think it's important to include the end of the paragraph: "And then I have them killed off by rampaging dragons just after readers have got attached to them."
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Blue_rog said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
    Indeed. I have worked in I.T. for 30 years, mostly retail database design and configuration management.

    I can program in a dozen programming languages across a range of machine types from PCs to IBM Mid-Range machines (AS/400 as was, aka IBM Power Systems these days). For the last 20 years, I have run my own business providing consultancy, Linux server hosting and custom software design. My customers have ranged from one-person companies to High St supermarkets.

    Most people I deal for the first time think I am the receptionist or the boss's secretary ...
    Can you get spider solitaire XP to work on windows 10?
    Yes, I probably can.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    In all these things the degree of significance you attach is directly linked to how much you like the result.
    I'll put more confidence in the May elections, where we get a decent idea about how parties can campaign across large areas of the country at the same time, for first-tier authorities where it matters who wins and where most wards will be contested by all the main parties.

    By-elections rarely change anything and both public and parties act accordingly in that knowledge.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

    I think it's important to include the end of the paragraph: "And then I have them killed off by rampaging dragons just after readers have got attached to them."
    That is true of everyone in GoT. I had quite a surprise at the end of book 1.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mrs C, that is a good line.

    :+1:
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    surbiton said:

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    FPT: Outstanding results. Are they really outsiders in Gorton ? Afzal Khan's nomination may have just saved Labour - but I am not too sure.
    LD should only campaign on a Brexit referendum at the end of the negotiations.
    Why did the Tory vote collapse yesterday ?
    I think the problem with what is called "the Tory vote", is that the Conservative Party is deeply fragmented over the EU, as it always has been.

    There is the fragment that is indistinguishable from UKIP, they are delighted with Mrs May, and don`t care if leaving the EU wrecks the British economy.

    There is the fragment that would have preferred to continue to be in the EU, and they are naturally disappointed with where Mrs May is leading the Conservatives.

    And there is the fragment that is a bit suspicious of the EU, but recognises the importance of the single market for our trading companies. These people are so far giving Mrs May the benefit of the doubt, but are not entirely convinced by her direction of travel.

    Two of these three groups of Conservatives are very open to the arguments from the Lib Dems that the country needs the most favourable terms if we do finally leave the EU. They are therefore open to the possibility of voting Lib Dem, especially when the argument is put to them strongly (which it isn`t always - so the Lib Dem surge is a bit patchy at times).
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    In all these things the degree of significance you attach is directly linked to how much you like the result.
    I'll put more confidence in the May elections, where we get a decent idea about how parties can campaign across large areas of the country at the same time, for first-tier authorities where it matters who wins and where most wards will be contested by all the main parties.

    By-elections rarely change anything and both public and parties act accordingly in that knowledge.
    Profs Rallings & Thrasher do quite well making May election projections based on local by-elections during the year. With 250+ data points they've got a reasonable amount to go on.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2017
    PClipp said:

    surbiton said:

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    FPT: Outstanding results. Are they really outsiders in Gorton ? Afzal Khan's nomination may have just saved Labour - but I am not too sure.
    LD should only campaign on a Brexit referendum at the end of the negotiations.
    Why did the Tory vote collapse yesterday ?
    I think the problem with what is called "the Tory vote", is that the Conservative Party is deeply fragmented over the EU, as it always has been.

    There is the fragment that is indistinguishable from UKIP, they are delighted with Mrs May, and don`t care if leaving the EU wrecks the British economy.

    There is the fragment that would have preferred to continue to be in the EU, and they are naturally disappointed with where Mrs May is leading the Conservatives.

    And there is the fragment that is a bit suspicious of the EU, but recognises the importance of the single market for our trading companies. These people are so far giving Mrs May the benefit of the doubt, but are not entirely convinced by her direction of travel.

    Two of these three groups of Conservatives are very open to the arguments from the Lib Dems that the country needs the most favourable terms if we do finally leave the EU. They are therefore open to the possibility of voting Lib Dem, especially when the argument is put to them strongly (which it isn`t always - so the Lib Dem surge is a bit patchy at times).
    It's sweet really, how hard you try to convince yourself.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    A girl named Soo and Sweep made a gruesome threesome. At least Ms Nuala had Sir Malcolm....

    Indeed .. there will always be Sir Malcolm ..

    How's the Surrey coup progressing - any more blood on the carpet ?

    Sadly, Hodge was forced to resign as LGA Tory leader yesterday but he's safe in Surrey assuming he holds his seat in May.

    Talking of which, your electoral services and those of The Milanese Maestro, will be requisitioned within weeks to ensure a stupendous triumph for all that is right and decent in Hersham, namely me. I suggest you bring copious quantities of those most nutritious home-baked (hmm) pies to offer as we canvass the opposition areas. I'll even put them on election expenses....
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    PClipp said:

    [snip]

    Two of these three groups of Conservatives are very open to the arguments from the Lib Dems that the country needs the most favourable terms if we do finally leave the EU. They are therefore open to the possibility of voting Lib Dem, especially when the argument is put to them strongly (which it isn`t always - so the Lib Dem surge is a bit patchy at times).

    That we want the most favourable terms from our EU friends is not exactly controversial. The bit where your logic breaks down is the bizarre suggestion that voting LibDem (especially in a local council by-election) will somehow magically change the terms which the EU might be prepared to offer us.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,534
    It is fascinating just how obsessed some Remainers are with WWII, the Germans and the Nazis with respect to the EU, just as are some Leavers:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39380606
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    In all these things the degree of significance you attach is directly linked to how much you like the result.
    I'll put more confidence in the May elections, where we get a decent idea about how parties can campaign across large areas of the country at the same time, for first-tier authorities where it matters who wins and where most wards will be contested by all the main parties.

    By-elections rarely change anything and both public and parties act accordingly in that knowledge.
    Profs Rallings & Thrasher do quite well making May election projections based on local by-elections during the year. With 250+ data points they've got a reasonable amount to go on.

    It will be interesting to see how well the by-elections translate. I'm not convinced they will for the Lib Dems, who look as if they're investing much more in by-elections than the other parties. They didn't gain all that much last year, possibly for similar reasons and while I'd expect a better outcome this time - national LD polling is a little better, for a start - I'm not anticipating anything like the storming results we're seeing from week to week.

    The basic question is why LD by-election results are not being reflected in national polling (or vice versa). The elections in May can reflect only one at most of those other figures; polls or by-elections.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    PClipp said:

    [snip]

    Two of these three groups of Conservatives are very open to the arguments from the Lib Dems that the country needs the most favourable terms if we do finally leave the EU. They are therefore open to the possibility of voting Lib Dem, especially when the argument is put to them strongly (which it isn`t always - so the Lib Dem surge is a bit patchy at times).

    That we want the most favourable terms from our EU friends is not exactly controversial. The bit where your logic breaks down is the bizarre suggestion that voting LibDem (especially in a local council by-election) will somehow magically change the terms which the EU might be prepared to offer us.
    No magic involved Mr Navabi. But a lot of Conservative voters do seem to be using byelections to signal their disquiet at the direction of travel of the Conservative Party under Mrs May`s leadership.

    And Mr Surbiton did ask why the Conservative vote was collapsing in certain areas. That is my explanation for the fact. I may be wrong. It is not, pace Mr Charles, a matter of just keeping Lib Dem spirits up. Just a possible explanation. Obviously, Tory toffs do not like my pointing this out.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Let it go mate. We've all missed that chance to become Europe's superdynasty. Move on.
    But I would have made such a wonderful tyrant. :-(
  • Options

    Pong said:

    Hurrah

    twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/845290748945805313

    I wouldn't bother, Kinnock is nailed on according to the polls.
    There was a late move to the tories in the betting markets.

    Con most seats;

    April 8th 1992: 3/1
    April 9th 1992: 4/5

    [snip]

    I'd have probably backed Lab @ 5/4 based on the polls.
    They'd have been 10/11 - no Betfair in those days :p

    Hell of a [justified!] late move that.
    I'd love to see the next Tory leader market on April 8th 1992.

    Probably Heseltine, Hurd, Patten, and Clarke the favourites, Hague 66/1?

    I'd have been laying Hurd and Heseltine; which has to be the best bit of aftertiming in the history of PB.
    Lamont moving up too, having just been appointed Chancellor...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130

    That we want the most favourable terms from our EU friends is not exactly controversial. The bit where your logic breaks down is the bizarre suggestion that voting LibDem (especially in a local council by-election) will somehow magically change the terms which the EU might be prepared to offer us.

    The EU is prepared to offer us single market access on the same basis as we have now if domestic political pressure can force Theresa May to accept those terms.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    slade said:

    Barnesian said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Who said the LibDem surge was over!

    I make that a 38.2% wing!
    It's not really meaningful to calculate a swing where one of the parties didn't stand yesterday. You might as well say that there was a 15% swing from Green to SNP.

    Certainly the result was positive for the Lib Dems. However, it's a small ward which doesn't have a history of full major-party contests. I wouldn't read anything of national significance into it.
    In all these things the degree of significance you attach is directly linked to how much you like the result.
    I'll put more confidence in the May elections, where we get a decent idea about how parties can campaign across large areas of the country at the same time, for first-tier authorities where it matters who wins and where most wards will be contested by all the main parties.

    By-elections rarely change anything and both public and parties act accordingly in that knowledge.
    Profs Rallings & Thrasher do quite well making May election projections based on local by-elections during the year. With 250+ data points they've got a reasonable amount to go on.

    What are they saying for the

    a) West Midlands
    b) West of England mayoralty

    :>
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Let it go mate. We've all missed that chance to become Europe's superdynasty. Move on.
    But I would have made such a wonderful tyrant. :-(
    And no doubt as such a big fan of a united Europe.

    :smile:
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
    Indeed. I have worked in I.T. for 30 years, mostly retail database design and configuration management.

    I can program in a dozen programming languages across a range of machine types from PCs to IBM Mid-Range machines (AS/400 as was, aka IBM Power Systems these days). For the last 20 years, I have run my own business providing consultancy, Linux server hosting and custom software design. My customers have ranged from one-person companies to High St supermarkets.

    Most people I deal for the first time think I am the receptionist or the boss's secretary ...
    Mrs J was working as an engineer for a tech firm with 'Silicon' in its name. She flew to America on business, and was interviewed on entry. The woman looked at her visa, then stared at Mrs J's breasts and cleavage.

    "Silicone?" she asked.
    "No, silicon," Mrs J replies. "Computers."
    "Ah," the woman replied: "Chips, not tits."
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    Pong said:

    Hurrah

    twitter.com/BBCParliament/status/845290748945805313

    I wouldn't bother, Kinnock is nailed on according to the polls.
    There was a late move to the tories in the betting markets.

    Con most seats;

    April 8th 1992: 3/1
    April 9th 1992: 4/5

    [snip]

    I'd have probably backed Lab @ 5/4 based on the polls.
    They'd have been 10/11 - no Betfair in those days :p

    Hell of a [justified!] late move that.
    I'd love to see the next Tory leader market on April 8th 1992.

    Probably Heseltine, Hurd, Patten, and Clarke the favourites, Hague 66/1?

    I'd have been laying Hurd and Heseltine; which has to be the best bit of aftertiming in the history of PB.
    Hurd would surely be heading backwards by 1992? He'd been soundly beaten in 1990 (unlike Heseltine) and didn't exactly have then makings of a Leader of the Opposition. His best chance of becoming PM would have been if Major stood down mid-term but even then it'd have been unlikely he'd be near the front of the queue, you have to ask *why* Major would be standing down and how that would affect the contest. He was 62 at the 1990 election, so even if the Conservatives lost (as on April 8 looked a fair possibility), chances were that he wouldn't get the chance to fight an election until his mid- to late-60s. All in all, I think that post-1990, there'd have been a sense that he'd missed his chance.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,987
    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845223366692945920
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    The EU is prepared to offer us single market access on the same basis as we have now if domestic political pressure can force Theresa May to accept those terms.

    They don't need to offer us the same terms as we already have. We've just held a massive great referendum where those terms were rejected (in fact, better terms than we would now get if we changed our minds).

    If you're saying that domestic political pressure can reverse the referendum result, time is running out. You've got until next Wednesday.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845223366692945920

    I wonder what is the status of the selfie bloke
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    That we want the most favourable terms from our EU friends is not exactly controversial. The bit where your logic breaks down is the bizarre suggestion that voting LibDem (especially in a local council by-election) will somehow magically change the terms which the EU might be prepared to offer us.

    The EU is prepared to offer us single market access on the same basis as we have now if domestic political pressure can force Theresa May to accept those terms.
    In other words, if we ignore the referendum. How very EU.

    In reality, there is no pressure on May to accept the EU's terms; quite the opposite. But then with the Tories on 44% or so, she's hardly being forced into a corner by a small cabal against the public will.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    "Obviously misinformed"? The infowar combatants here were the misinformers. They would have done it no matter what the truth was. For them, the truth didn't come into it.

    I reserve the word "trolls" for wind-up merchants.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130

    If you're saying that domestic political pressure can reverse the referendum result, time is running out. You've got until next Wednesday.

    The time for reversal is not now but after the alternative has been tested to destruction.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,987
    Cyan said:

    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    "Obviously misinformed"? The infowar combatants here were the misinformers. They would have done it no matter what the truth was. For them, the truth didn't come into it.

    I reserve the word "trolls" for wind-up merchants.
    So what?!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130

    That we want the most favourable terms from our EU friends is not exactly controversial. The bit where your logic breaks down is the bizarre suggestion that voting LibDem (especially in a local council by-election) will somehow magically change the terms which the EU might be prepared to offer us.

    The EU is prepared to offer us single market access on the same basis as we have now if domestic political pressure can force Theresa May to accept those terms.
    In other words, if we ignore the referendum. How very EU.

    In reality, there is no pressure on May to accept the EU's terms; quite the opposite. But then with the Tories on 44% or so, she's hardly being forced into a corner by a small cabal against the public will.
    It's very early days. In my view the invocation of Article 50 is the political equivalent of joining the ERM at the rate we did - it means a future political crisis when we realise we can't keep pace with Germany is baked in.
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    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845223366692945920

    That was hateful bollocks. In the photo she clearly looks terrified and in that situation, if she can't do anything to help (which a lot of people can't in those circumstances) she's better off keeping out of the way, which she seems to be doing.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    If you're saying that domestic political pressure can reverse the referendum result, time is running out. You've got until next Wednesday.

    The time for reversal is not now but after the alternative has been tested to destruction.
    By then it will be too late, for better or worse. In fact, it's already too late: the decision has been taken, both sides are now planning for the post-Brexit world, our interests are already diverging. It's impossible to wind the clock back.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited March 2017

    It's impossible to wind the clock back.

    You are probably correct, but the ECJ has yet to rule on the reversibility of A50
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130
    edited March 2017

    If you're saying that domestic political pressure can reverse the referendum result, time is running out. You've got until next Wednesday.

    The time for reversal is not now but after the alternative has been tested to destruction.
    By then it will be too late, for better or worse. In fact, it's already too late: the decision has been taken, both sides are now planning for the post-Brexit world, our interests are already diverging. It's impossible to wind the clock back.
    By what measure are our interests diverging? The real interests of the British people are not the same as the political interests of the government of the day - especially one that has been forced out on a limb by the unfortunate consequences of its previous leadership's gamble.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

    As opposed to the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets:

    Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
    Melvin Udall: I think of a man. And I take away reason and accountability
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    You honestly would not have thought that in the modern world this was possible: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39375228

    Discussing a health bill without a female in the room. Not even making tea.

    I'm not in the least bit surprised.

    Recently, I got an invite to a Women's Day Event organized by a well known law firm. They had a panel to discuss issues relating to women: the panel consisted of 1 man and 3 women. So far, so good.

    But.

    The man was a neuroscientist. The three women were women who had set up companies making ethnically sourced baby clothes, clothes for professional women and an internet cleaning company.

    When I pointed out that women succeeded in and were interested in matters others than babies, clothes and cleaning there was some clearing of throats and apologetic explanations.

    Next year - if they have any sense - they'll have as a speaker a professional woman who's made a success in an overwhelmingly male environment, for instance.

    My wife was attending a huge international conference recently. There was a side-session on 'Women in Technology', quite well attended. When they asked for questions from the floor, she asked a question which received a few seconds of stunned silence, followed by a big round of applause: "Why are we here discussing women in technology? We should be in the main hall discussing technology."
    Indeed. I have worked in I.T. for 30 years, mostly retail database design and configuration management.

    I can program in a dozen programming languages across a range of machine types from PCs to IBM Mid-Range machines (AS/400 as was, aka IBM Power Systems these days). For the last 20 years, I have run my own business providing consultancy, Linux server hosting and custom software design. My customers have ranged from one-person companies to High St supermarkets.

    Most people I deal for the first time think I am the receptionist or the boss's secretary ...
    Mrs J was working as an engineer for a tech firm with 'Silicon' in its name. She flew to America on business, and was interviewed on entry. The woman looked at her visa, then stared at Mrs J's breasts and cleavage.

    "Silicone?" she asked.
    "No, silicon," Mrs J replies. "Computers."
    "Ah," the woman replied: "Chips, not tits."
    :D
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845223366692945920

    That was hateful bollocks. In the photo she clearly looks terrified and in that situation, if she can't do anything to help (which a lot of people can't in those circumstances) she's better off keeping out of the way, which she seems to be doing.
    Absolutely right. Thankfully even the Daily Mail has enough sense to pre-moderate the comments on that article.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    isam said:
    I bet there's someone looking very carefully at the betting patterns on that race.
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    Listen up. Here are two sources on how much media the various French presidential candidates are getting:

    * social media;

    * radio, TV, and the press (with this one you have to type in the name of each candidate to get their bar chart).

    I wouldn't like any PBers to lose money by following in the footsteps of those who bet on Hillary Clinton because Donald Trump supposedly wasn't buying many TV ads and was clueless as to what states to campaign in, even when he was making most of the headlines.

    But Dupont-Aignan is layable at 400 if I'm talking rubbish.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,411

    It is fascinating just how obsessed some Remainers are with WWII, the Germans and the Nazis with respect to the EU, just as are some Leavers:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39380606

    LEAVERS = RAF
    EU = Luftwaffe
    REMOANERS = Mosley & co.

    :innocent:
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    isam said:

    This was pretty rough and obviously misinformed trolling

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845223366692945920

    That was hateful bollocks. In the photo she clearly looks terrified and in that situation, if she can't do anything to help (which a lot of people can't in those circumstances) she's better off keeping out of the way, which she seems to be doing.
    Agreed 100%.

    Anyone criticising that young lady needs a serious word with themselves.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

    As opposed to the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets:

    Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
    Melvin Udall: I think of a man. And I take away reason and accountability
    I will stick with George Martin
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,411

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Let it go mate. We've all missed that chance to become Europe's superdynasty. Move on.
    Queen Victoria was the grandmother of Europe
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    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited March 2017

    It's impossible to wind the clock back.

    You are probably correct, but the ECJ has yet to rule on the reversibility of A50
    This isn't a threat or in any way a "suck it up losers!" post, but I'd be genuinely fearful of civil unrest on a wide scale if A50 gets overturned. It'd be carnage. I think Brexit has to happen now, for the good of the country. By all means have a party that wants to go back in and campaign on that, but if you think the country is divided now, it'd be a warzone if the referendum got overturned without another vote.
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    It is fascinating just how obsessed some Remainers are with WWII, the Germans and the Nazis with respect to the EU, just as are some Leavers:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39380606

    LEAVERS = RAF
    EU = Luftwaffe
    REMOANERS = Mosley & co.

    :innocent:
    Time for a rousing rendition of Ten German Bombers In The Air
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    DavidL said:

    ... I find it remarkable that no one thought, you know, the optics of this are not going to be optimal. I also find it remarkable that such a party is not even further behind with women than they currently are.

    "optics"??? WTF ...

    George Martin (Game of Thrones writer) had it spot on in an interview:

    Interviewer: How do you manage to write such great female characters?

    Martin: I think of them as people.

    As opposed to the Jack Nicholson line in As Good As It Gets:

    Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
    Melvin Udall: I think of a man. And I take away reason and accountability
    I will stick with George Martin
    Mrs. C., I suggest you look at Maurice Druon and his Accursed Kings series. Got all the elements of Game of Thrones (except dragons and that rubbish) but with the benefit that it is a dramatisation of a true story. All the main characters really existed and all the main events actually happened. Though it pains me to say it, it is the best set of historical novels I have ever read.

    P.S. The series has been recently released on Kindle as is as cheap as chips
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    JohnO said:

    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    A girl named Soo and Sweep made a gruesome threesome. At least Ms Nuala had Sir Malcolm....

    Indeed .. there will always be Sir Malcolm ..

    How's the Surrey coup progressing - any more blood on the carpet ?

    Sadly, Hodge was forced to resign as LGA Tory leader yesterday but he's safe in Surrey assuming he holds his seat in May.

    Talking of which, your electoral services and those of The Milanese Maestro, will be requisitioned within weeks to ensure a stupendous triumph for all that is right and decent in Hersham, namely me. I suggest you bring copious quantities of those most nutritious home-baked (hmm) pies to offer as we canvass the opposition areas. I'll even put them on election expenses....
    Huzzah ....

    The Jacobite/Milano axis fights again heralding a triumph for the forces of Surrey decadence ....

    I shall expect a progress through Hersham as a small token of appreciation .... :smile:
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,994
    TOPPING said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:



    I'm not sure if there is a strict definition/agreed set of criteria for what determines a demos. I suppose it would be a shared sense of history, commonly accepted geographic boundaries, clear government structure, etc.

    I think it's also reasonable to point out that there are quite a few countries today that probably don't have coherent demos - Belgium being the most obvious example.

    And there were many countries that did not have coherent demos when they were formed, and it only developed over time. I think the US would be one example of that, as was the United Kingdom itself.

    Many states without coherent demos lasted some time before breaking up: Yugoslavia or the Austro-Hungarian Empire for example.
    Strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets owned by one family
    Strictly strictly speaking, the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't a unitary state - it was a collection of assets administered by one family
    And it lasted just 41 years.
    Oh, tosh. It lasted centuries. Sure, it was reformed from time to time (and was likely to have been reformed again post-1916, had WWI not intervened), but the essential entity had a clear lineage going back at least as far as 1648.

    Your argument is like saying that France has only been around for 58 years, or Britain for 95.
    Not at all. Prior to 1867 the Austrian Empire and Kingdom of Hungary had been separate states in a manner very similar to England and Scotland. In fact the analogy of the unification which led to the formation of the British state is an excellent one for the formation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    I have a particular interest in this part of the world since, as I may have mentioned before, a Tudor ancestor of mine was offered the throne of Bohemia and when he turned it down it was offered to some third rate family called the Hapsburgs instead.
    Let it go mate. We've all missed that chance to become Europe's superdynasty. Move on.
    But I would have made such a wonderful tyrant. :-(
    And no doubt as such a big fan of a united Europe.

    :smile:
    Of course. Just as long as it bent its knee to my every wish and command. I might even have copied King Minos and asked for a tribute of young ladies from every principality under my benevolent rule. Though I wouldn't have wasted them as he did.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,130

    It's impossible to wind the clock back.

    You are probably correct, but the ECJ has yet to rule on the reversibility of A50
    This isn't a threat or in any way a "suck it up losers!" post, but I'd be genuinely fearful of civil unrest on a wide scale if A50 gets overturned. It'd be carnage. I think Brexit has to happen now, for the good of the country. By all means have a party that wants to go back in and campaign on that, but if you think the country is divided now, it'd be a warzone if the referendum got overturned without another vote.
    There will be another vote, first of all on separation of Scotland. If that passes, then it will be a major wake-up call for the rest of the country, will it not?
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    yes
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    It's impossible to wind the clock back.

    You are probably correct, but the ECJ has yet to rule on the reversibility of A50
    This isn't a threat or in any way a "suck it up losers!" post, but I'd be genuinely fearful of civil unrest on a wide scale if A50 gets overturned. It'd be carnage. I think Brexit has to happen now, for the good of the country. By all means have a party that wants to go back in and campaign on that, but if you think the country is divided now, it'd be a warzone if the referendum got overturned without another vote.
    There will be another vote, first of all on separation of Scotland. If that passes, then it will be a major wake-up call for the rest of the country, will it not?
    We live in vastly different worlds, William. We're probably not even in the same universe.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    It's impossible to wind the clock back.

    You are probably correct, but the ECJ has yet to rule on the reversibility of A50
    This isn't a threat or in any way a "suck it up losers!" post, but I'd be genuinely fearful of civil unrest on a wide scale if A50 gets overturned. It'd be carnage. I think Brexit has to happen now, for the good of the country. By all means have a party that wants to go back in and campaign on that, but if you think the country is divided now, it'd be a warzone if the referendum got overturned without another vote.
    There will be another vote, first of all on separation of Scotland. If that passes, then it will be a major wake-up call for the rest of the country, will it not?
    Not necessarily. It's just possible that the rest of the country won't give a toss.
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    Test
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2017
    Anorak said:

    isam said:
    I bet there's someone looking very carefully at the betting patterns on that race.
    That's so awful I can only assume genuine cock-up. You cannot throw a race that blatantly.

    Still, it's another example of why I don't bet on the horses.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The more excitable pb posters might want to take a Mogadon before reading this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/845326222049579008
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    A girl named Soo and Sweep made a gruesome threesome. At least Ms Nuala had Sir Malcolm....

    Indeed .. there will always be Sir Malcolm ..

    How's the Surrey coup progressing - any more blood on the carpet ?

    Sadly, Hodge was forced to resign as LGA Tory leader yesterday but he's safe in Surrey assuming he holds his seat in May.

    Talking of which, your electoral services and those of The Milanese Maestro, will be requisitioned within weeks to ensure a stupendous triumph for all that is right and decent in Hersham, namely me. I suggest you bring copious quantities of those most nutritious home-baked (hmm) pies to offer as we canvass the opposition areas. I'll even put them on election expenses....
    Huzzah ....

    The Jacobite/Milano axis fights again heralding a triumph for the forces of Surrey decadence ....

    I shall expect a progress through Hersham as a small token of appreciation .... :smile:
    We shall as one render dutiful obeisance
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    The more excitable pb posters might want to take a Mogadon before reading this tweet:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/845326222049579008

    I'm not a huge fan of Cameron, but that wouldn't be the worst appointment in the world, would it?
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