Masood had been "hanging out" with would-be jihadis who wanted to travel to fight abroad, a US government source told Reuters.
There was no indication Masood had himself gone abroad to fight but people he associated with had wanted to.
"The people he was hanging out with did include people suspected of having an interest in travelling to join jihadi groups overseas but the attacker himself never did so," the source said.
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
The fact that in our liberal democracy, somebody like Maajid Nawaz has to live with round the clock security because he dares to suggest that Islam might have to modernize and that a cartoon showing Mohammad doesn't personally offend him.
That ain't right.
That isn't talked about...Nor in all the stuff about this backlash against the Muslim community that has no basis in fact...is the fact the Jews now have security 24/7, 365 days a year at many places and employ their own police force.
Furthermore, nobody needs round the clock security if somebody says something nasty about the Christian, Jews, Sikh or the Hindu's. People just call them out as bigots and we move on.
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.
Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.
"For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
The fact that in our liberal democracy, somebody like Maajid Nawaz has to live with round the clock security because he dares to suggest that Islam might have to modernize and that a cartoon showing Mohammad doesn't personally offend him.
That ain't right.
That isn't talked about...Nor in all the stuff about this backlash against the Muslim community that has no basis in fact...is the fact the Jews now have security 24/7, 365 days a year at many places and employ their own police force.
Furthermore, nobody needs round the clock security if somebody says something nasty about the Christian, Jews, Sikh or the Hindu's. People just call them out as bigots and we move on.
You can mock Christianity and its adherents in this country in a way that would be impossible with Islam.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
Oh god, just shut the F up.
Shut the fuck up yourself, you self-aggrandisng reactionary bore.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
FPT - He's been through hell but, if I'm honest, I find Brendan Cox po-faced and sanctimonious. He strikes me as the sort of person who would make an earnest political point out of serving his kids cornflakes at breakfast time.
I thought his comparisons were interesting. He said this attacker was "no more representative of Islam than Thomas Mair was of people living in Yorkshire".
He clearly couldn't bring himself to say "than Thomas Mair was of the many millions of good and decent people who voted Leave", probably because he neither believes or agrees with it.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The last Evangelical who ran amok in Westminster was.....?
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
Oh god, just shut the F up.
Why? Just because YOU said so?
Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.
I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.
The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.
I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.
The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
Pleased to see that the chap who seconded my application to be a Freeman of the City of London has been returned with a resounding show of public support for the Radical Cause (sort of).
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.
Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
I haven't checked the details, but, by God, is it those bloody Baptists again?
Someone tell Beverley C and Bromptonaut. They have finally been vindicated.
A good example of the double standards is the over-the-top grandstanding about anything vaguely reactionary in Eastern Europe. The Russian gay propaganda law has an exact analogue in Section 28 which was law here fairly recently and became one of the totems of the 'nasty party', yet we moralise as if they were centuries behind us, while acting coy about practices which genuinely are.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
We don't live in Uganda...we live in a liberal western democracy.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.
I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.
The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
Personally I would abolish "faith "schools in an instant, unless we do something radical to get to grips with the problem soon we will be paying an increasingly heavy price in years to come.
even by the daily mail's own account it was a documentary documentary about Pakistani female education campaigner Malala Yousafzai that included the footage. That's not quite the same as "Taliban execution videos".
I'm not sure what the complaint is here, though. You don't want people to know what murderous bastards the taliban are?
I see that the Labour Candidate in Queenhithe Ward (City of London) received six votes. That's four less than the number of nomination signatures he needed to stand for election.
even by the daily mail's own account it was a documentary documentary about Pakistani female education campaigner Malala Yousafzai that included the footage. That's not quite the same as "Taliban execution videos".
I'm not sure what the complaint is here, though. You don't want people to know what murderous bastards the taliban are?
12 year olds being shown people being excecuted and someone who was beheaded? Ok with you, fair enough
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The number of evangelical Christians causing problems around the world is tiny.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
Oh god, just shut the F up.
Why? Just because YOU said so?
Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.
These people are in charge of educating children
Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.
Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.
I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.
I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.
The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
It's an important source of votes for Labour, they alienating a lot of the others.
I see that the Labour Candidate in Queenhithe Ward (City of London) received six votes. That's four less than the number of nomination signatures he needed to stand for election.
Superb.
Reports of Labour's ineptitude never fail to lift my spirits. Clearly, even members of his own family didn't turn out to vote for him.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count? because i think it should americans have killed (intentionally or otherwise a shit load of innocent humans in the mid east it's just that WE don't pay attention to it. And yes there are as many western bombing of mid east lands as islamic bombings og the mid east if not more. We are not so innocent as trump said
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
Oh god, just shut the F up.
Why? Just because YOU said so?
Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.
These people are in charge of educating children
Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.
Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.
I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.
Anyway, consider me flounced.
All the best, folks
Sorry to hear it, though I can see where you're coming from.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count?
It's easy to see why the centre-left is in so much trouble in most western countries when these are the types of arguments they are deploying.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
You cannot be that blind and stupid can you?
Jeez
oh shit probably in for a death sentence now for taking the lords name in vain......
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count?
It's easy to see why the centre-left is in so much trouble in most western countries when these are the types of arguments they are deploying.
i'm not the centre left. Why is bombing dozens of somalian refugees off the coast of yemen ok then? Not that you even heard of it. Are they brown. We let our governments get away with literal murder. We bomb the shit out of mid east/islamic countries, and then we cry why do they hate us so much. Not that it's right ofcourse. But do we have such a moral high ground.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
I never said that the world does NOT have a problem with radical Islam. I said that any radical religion is a problem and pointed out that Christianity is not all teapots, scones and a slightly dotty vicar.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
Sorry - I did not realise this was a Top Trumps competition.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
But it is mostly an Islamic problem.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count? because i think it should americans have killed (intentionally or otherwise a shit load of innocent humans in the mid east it's just that WE don't pay attention to it. And yes there are as many western bombing of mid east lands as islamic bombings og the mid east if not more. We are not so innocent as trump said
Asking for a friend:
Is it true that Mohammed was the world's first Islamist?
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
The number of evangelical Christians causing problems around the world is tiny.
Back in the day, we largely got around the problem of evangelicals/radicals causing us problems by exporting them abroad to evangelize.
For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.
Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.
I never said that the world does NOT have a problem with radical Islam. I said that any radical religion is a problem and pointed out that Christianity is not all teapots, scones and a slightly dotty vicar.
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
Sorry - I did not realise this was a Top Trumps competition.
But one can mock the most radical Christians as much as one likes in this country, without serious risk of either violence or prosecution.
Mock the most radical Muslims? That's a much riskier business.
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.
Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.
"For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.
Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.
"For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."
Time to start doing and stop emoting.
We can hope.
Although people should ignore pleas to get off the site at least. Thats just mr t being mr t.
For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.
It's a sad fact that when fighting organisations like IS or the Taliban, innocent people will be killed. But it's still worth fighting such organisations.
More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.
Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).
He's a bit obsessed by trump at present understandably , and any mention of uk issues is so poorly presented and lazily one sided (too close to the subject matter i expect) I worry if his non partisan pieces are as well researched as they appear, but I'm a big fan of olivers style and delivery.
That said I think the successor thing has been known for years and years, though I didn't know there has been a spate of self immolation.
You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.
But, it isn't just that, is it?
It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.
It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.
All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever. Flag Quote · Off Topic
Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.
Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.
"For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."
Time to start doing and stop emoting.
We can hope.
Although people should ignore pleas to get off the site at least. Thats just mr t being mr t.
It's a bit manic at the moment.
I'm still waiting for the third result but I think I'll call it a day.
More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.
Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).
He's a bit obsessed by trump at present understandably , and any mention of uk issues is so poorly presented and lazily one sided (too close to the subject matter i expect) I worry if his non partisan pieces are as well researched as they appear, but I'm a big fan of olivers style and delivery.
That said I think the successor thing has been known for years and years, though I didn't know there has been a spate of self immolation.
I think all of the US media are totally Trump obsessed. I watched a couple of hours of CNN 2 nights ago and it was just wall to wall Trump Trump Trump Trump...
The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.
Oh god, just shut the F up.
Why? Just because YOU said so?
Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.
These people are in charge of educating children
Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.
Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.
I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.
For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.
A large number of Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims, eg. Iran-Iraq War back in the 1980s (8 years long!), and IS car bombs in Iraq right up to the present day.
For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.
A large number of Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims, eg. Iran-Iraq War back in the 1980s (8 years long!), and IS car bombs in Iraq right up to the present day.
Indeed. We dont ignore that the west has caused harm and generally not helped in the Middle East, but that is not the root cause of problems there, that would infantilise them saying it's all outsiders fault when some of the issues ultimately Go back centuries, and none of it makes a difference to the realities we face at home.
Everyone will calm down soon. Of course, that's part of the problem, even as the ability to move on is also a key strength of humanity usually, as nothing then truly gets addressed.
Comments
There was no indication Masood had himself gone abroad to fight but people he associated with had wanted to.
"The people he was hanging out with did include people suspected of having an interest in travelling to join jihadi groups overseas but the attacker himself never did so," the source said.
Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)
Edit: Whilst in prison.
That ain't right.
That isn't talked about...Nor in all the stuff about this backlash against the Muslim community that has no basis in fact...is the fact the Jews now have security 24/7, 365 days a year at many places and employ their own police force.
Furthermore, nobody needs round the clock security if somebody says something nasty about the Christian, Jews, Sikh or the Hindu's. People just call them out as bigots and we move on.
Although I note the 40% previously for the Greens.
Looks like the Lib Dem vote is eating that wholesale.
Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.
Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.
"For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."
Time to start doing and stop emoting.
If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
IND: 95 seats
LAB: 5 seats
That means that Labour must have won St-James-the-Least-of-All-by-the-Wardrobe, or maybe Pudding Lane and Monument North East.
I don't suppose anyone was betting on this particular contest, were they?
City of London Council, election results:
IND: 95 seats
LAB: 5 seats
I thought his comparisons were interesting. He said this attacker was "no more representative of Islam than Thomas Mair was of people living in Yorkshire".
He clearly couldn't bring himself to say "than Thomas Mair was of the many millions of good and decent people who voted Leave", probably because he neither believes or agrees with it.
JC4PM!
Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.
These people are in charge of educating children
I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.
The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845054821740765184
Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).
GRN: 40.8% (+10.1)
IOC: 18.3% (+18.3)
CON: 17.8% (-8.7)
IND: 14.9% (+14.9)
LDEM: 8.2% (+8.2)
Everyone up except Con
I'm not sure what the complaint is here, though. You don't want people to know what murderous bastards the taliban are?
Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.
I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.
Anyway, consider me flounced.
All the best, folks
Reports of Labour's ineptitude never fail to lift my spirits. Clearly, even members of his own family didn't turn out to vote for him.
Labour seat with no LibDem or Green standing. Will Labour lose it to UKIP?
Jeez
oh shit probably in for a death sentence now for taking the lords name in vain......
oh wait, no they will just turn the other cheek
Is it true that Mohammed was the world's first Islamist?
It's how the empire got built.
Mock the most radical Muslims? That's a much riskier business.
That said I think the successor thing has been known for years and years, though I didn't know there has been a spate of self immolation.
I'm still waiting for the third result but I think I'll call it a day.
Everyone will calm down soon. Of course, that's part of the problem, even as the ability to move on is also a key strength of humanity usually, as nothing then truly gets addressed.
Night all.