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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: London, Second Referendum(s),

SystemSystem Posts: 12,263
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: London, Second Referendum(s), Snap elections & more

 

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  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited March 2017
    First. Unlike in Brexit - my horse came in second :)
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited March 2017
    What DiscussionID?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,264
    Turd
  • lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,912
    [placeholder]
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147

    lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset

    Dunny-on-the-Wold? I thought they were a shoe-in :smiley::p
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2017
    Looks like the LDs are going to do pretty well in the local elections this year. Could they hit 20% in the national projected share? Maybe.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset

    Dunny-on-the-Wold? I thought they were a shoe-in :smiley::p
    Is Colin the dachshund still voting?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Ninth like UkIp
  • RobD said:

    lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset

    Dunny-on-the-Wold? I thought they were a shoe-in :smiley::p
    Close. apparently it's called Dunster & Timberscombe (in West Somerset).
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Isn't it a bit rough to ban @Mortimer after he'd just booked a bar for us all to meet at next week?!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    Masood had been "hanging out" with would-be jihadis who wanted to travel to fight abroad, a US government source told Reuters.

    There was no indication Masood had himself gone abroad to fight but people he associated with had wanted to.

    "The people he was hanging out with did include people suspected of having an interest in travelling to join jihadi groups overseas but the attacker himself never did so," the source said.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,147

    RobD said:

    lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset

    Dunny-on-the-Wold? I thought they were a shoe-in :smiley::p
    Close. apparently it's called Dunster & Timberscombe (in West Somerset).
    What a glorious name!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    isam said:

    Isn't it a bit rough to ban @Mortimer after he'd just booked a bar for us all to meet at next week?!

    What did he get the ban hammer for?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    RobD said:

    lib Dems gain the seat in Somerset

    Dunny-on-the-Wold? I thought they were a shoe-in :smiley::p
    Close. apparently it's called Dunster & Timberscombe (in West Somerset).
    In the Bridgewater seat, not one of the LibDems' strongest in the West Country (indeed one of the relatively few seats they have never won)
  • Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    edited March 2017
    Hmm - Anyone that converts to Islam and changes their name must be a massive red flag to the security services.

    Edit: Whilst in prison.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic

    The fact that in our liberal democracy, somebody like Maajid Nawaz has to live with round the clock security because he dares to suggest that Islam might have to modernize and that a cartoon showing Mohammad doesn't personally offend him.

    That ain't right.

    That isn't talked about...Nor in all the stuff about this backlash against the Muslim community that has no basis in fact...is the fact the Jews now have security 24/7, 365 days a year at many places and employ their own police force.

    Furthermore, nobody needs round the clock security if somebody says something nasty about the Christian, Jews, Sikh or the Hindu's. People just call them out as bigots and we move on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    edited March 2017

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    That result from a standing start is both exciting, and terrifying on a personal level !

    Although I note the 40% previously for the Greens.

    Looks like the Lib Dem vote is eating that wholesale.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Go back to your local councils and prepare for refuse collection!
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Pulpstar said:

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    That result from a standing start is both exciting, and terrifying on a personal level !
    are you standing?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    That result from a standing start is both exciting, and terrifying on a personal level !
    Let me guess - someone with a beard and sandals (or his friend, that nice vegan lady) has persuaded you to be a paper candidate in May.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Isn't it a bit rough to ban @Mortimer after he'd just booked a bar for us all to meet at next week?!

    What did he get the ban hammer for?
    I don't know, just saw he had the mark of disapproval
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm - Anyone that converts to Islam and changes their name must be a massive red flag to the security services.

    Edit: Whilst in prison.

    Cat Stevens on the Terror Watch List?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    Tim_B said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm - Anyone that converts to Islam and changes their name must be a massive red flag to the security services.

    Edit: Whilst in prison.

    Cat Stevens on the Terror Watch List?
    Has he not had issues at immigration in the past?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Go back to your local councils and prepare for refuse collection!
    I just spat my water out.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2017
    BBC confirms attacker's original name was Adrian Elms, born in Dartford in 1964.
  • AndyJS said:

    BBC confirms attacker's original name was Adrian Elms, born in Dartford in 1964.

    That's got to be the least Jihadist Warrior name ever.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    West Somerset was quite a strongly Leave area too. Interesting.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,490
    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic


    Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.

    Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.

    "For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."

    Time to start doing and stop emoting.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,652
    Danny565 said:

    West Somerset was quite a strongly Leave area too. Interesting.

    Probably the reason for the Lib Dems being joint favs for the West of England mayoralty.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    West Somerset was quite a strongly Leave area too. Interesting.

    Probably the reason for the Lib Dems being joint favs for the West of England mayoralty.
    Isn't it officially called the Western Super Mayor?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730

    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic

    The fact that in our liberal democracy, somebody like Maajid Nawaz has to live with round the clock security because he dares to suggest that Islam might have to modernize and that a cartoon showing Mohammad doesn't personally offend him.

    That ain't right.

    That isn't talked about...Nor in all the stuff about this backlash against the Muslim community that has no basis in fact...is the fact the Jews now have security 24/7, 365 days a year at many places and employ their own police force.

    Furthermore, nobody needs round the clock security if somebody says something nasty about the Christian, Jews, Sikh or the Hindu's. People just call them out as bigots and we move on.
    You can mock Christianity and its adherents in this country in a way that would be impossible with Islam.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    West Somerset was quite a strongly Leave area too. Interesting.

    Probably the reason for the Lib Dems being joint favs for the West of England mayoralty.
    Isn't it officially called the Western Super Mayor?
    (Chuckle and polite applause)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Danny565 said:

    Quite an impressive result from a standing start...
    Dunster & Timberscombe (West Somerset) result:
    LDEM: 49.7% (+49.7)
    CON: 32.9% (-26.7)
    GRN: 10.9% (-29.6)
    LAB: 6.6% (+6.6)

    Go back to your local councils and prepare for refuse collection!
    I just spat my water out.
    Same here - lol
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    Danny565 said:

    West Somerset was quite a strongly Leave area too. Interesting.

    Lots of pensioners, especially as you get nearer the north coast
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Uruguay v Brasil shaping up to be a cracker. 1-1 after 20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845052568715902978
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    Shut the fuck up yourself, you self-aggrandisng reactionary bore.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
  • According to Britain elects, the results from the City of London Council Elections are as follows:-
    IND: 95 seats
    LAB: 5 seats

    That means that Labour must have won St-James-the-Least-of-All-by-the-Wardrobe, or maybe Pudding Lane and Monument North East.

    I don't suppose anyone was betting on this particular contest, were they?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects

    City of London Council, election results:

    IND: 95 seats
    LAB: 5 seats
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,255
    FPT - He's been through hell but, if I'm honest, I find Brendan Cox po-faced and sanctimonious. He strikes me as the sort of person who would make an earnest political point out of serving his kids cornflakes at breakfast time.

    I thought his comparisons were interesting. He said this attacker was "no more representative of Islam than Thomas Mair was of people living in Yorkshire".

    He clearly couldn't bring himself to say "than Thomas Mair was of the many millions of good and decent people who voted Leave", probably because he neither believes or agrees with it.
  • Again, according to Britain Elects, Labour has won four seats in the City of London.

    JC4PM!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,761
    Green GAIN Leominster South (Herefordshire) from Independent.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The last Evangelical who ran amok in Westminster was.....?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Plenty more elections today than just the 3 by elections. City of London elections too https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about-the-city/Pages/Results.aspx
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    Why? Just because YOU said so?

    Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.

    These people are in charge of educating children
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845052568715902978
    I haven't checked the details, but, by God, is it those bloody Baptists again?

    Someone tell Beverley C and Bromptonaut. They have finally been vindicated.
    Nah...I reckon it was the radical Buddhists...
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.

    I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.

    The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    12 yr old school kids in Keighly shown Taliban excecution videos by supply teacher

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845054821740765184
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017
    OllyT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.

    I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.

    The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
    And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
  • Pleased to see that the chap who seconded my application to be a Freeman of the City of London has been returned with a resounding show of public support for the Radical Cause (sort of).
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017
    More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.

    Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,761
    edited March 2017
    Leominster South (Herefordshire) result:
    GRN: 40.8% (+10.1)
    IOC: 18.3% (+18.3)
    CON: 17.8% (-8.7)
    IND: 14.9% (+14.9)
    LDEM: 8.2% (+8.2)

    Everyone up except Con
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    We are not in Uganda.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,883
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845052568715902978
    I haven't checked the details, but, by God, is it those bloody Baptists again?

    Someone tell Beverley C and Bromptonaut. They have finally been vindicated.
    A good example of the double standards is the over-the-top grandstanding about anything vaguely reactionary in Eastern Europe. The Russian gay propaganda law has an exact analogue in Section 28 which was law here fairly recently and became one of the totems of the 'nasty party', yet we moralise as if they were centuries behind us, while acting coy about practices which genuinely are.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    We don't live in Uganda...we live in a liberal western democracy.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.

    I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.

    The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
    And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
    Personally I would abolish "faith "schools in an instant, unless we do something radical to get to grips with the problem soon we will be paying an increasingly heavy price in years to come.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edited March 2017
    isam said:

    12 yr old school kids in Keighly shown Taliban excecution videos by supply teacher

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845054821740765184

    even by the daily mail's own account it was a documentary documentary about Pakistani female education campaigner Malala Yousafzai that included the footage. That's not quite the same as "Taliban execution videos".


    I'm not sure what the complaint is here, though. You don't want people to know what murderous bastards the taliban are?

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Again, according to Britain Elects, Labour has won four seats in the City of London.

    JC4PM!

    And a fifth elected unopposed
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Good to see Augustus again.
  • I see that the Labour Candidate in Queenhithe Ward (City of London) received six votes. That's four less than the number of nomination signatures he needed to stand for election.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2017

    isam said:

    12 yr old school kids in Keighly shown Taliban excecution videos by supply teacher

    https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/845054821740765184

    even by the daily mail's own account it was a documentary documentary about Pakistani female education campaigner Malala Yousafzai that included the footage. That's not quite the same as "Taliban execution videos".


    I'm not sure what the complaint is here, though. You don't want people to know what murderous bastards the taliban are?

    12 year olds being shown people being excecuted and someone who was beheaded? Ok with you, fair enough
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The number of evangelical Christians causing problems around the world is tiny.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
  • augustus_carpaugustus_carp Posts: 224
    edited March 2017
    .
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    Why? Just because YOU said so?

    Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.

    These people are in charge of educating children
    Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
    Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.

    Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.

    I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.

    Anyway, consider me flounced.

    All the best, folks
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    OllyT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The tragedy is that all over Europe Islam is turning previously tolerant nations into intolerant ones and feeding right wing political movements everywhere. I'm a leftie but I have to admit that the righties have a point when it comes to Islam.

    I rarely agree with SeanT but he is correct insofar it is not just the terrorism, we can live with that (but god knows what it must be costing us to keep up surveillance on thousands of potential home grown and imported jihadis), it's everything that goes with it, the mysogyny, the homophobia, the refusal to integrate, apostasy etc.

    The UK is a progressive, increasingly secular and tolerant society, what were we really thinking when we decided it would be be a good idea to settle millions of adherents of a backward, medieval, bigoted religion in our midst?
    And the pandering of some political parties in willing to address segregated meetings, unwilling to condone texts that go out claiming that God demands you vote a certain way...
    It's an important source of votes for Labour, they alienating a lot of the others.

  • Chris_A said:

    Good to see Augustus again.

    How kind. I am surprised anyone remembers me at all.
  • I see that the Labour Candidate in Queenhithe Ward (City of London) received six votes. That's four less than the number of nomination signatures he needed to stand for election.

    Superb.

    Reports of Labour's ineptitude never fail to lift my spirits. Clearly, even members of his own family didn't turn out to vote for him.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,761
    Still waiting for the third local election result from Higher Croft on Blackburn with Darwen.

    Labour seat with no LibDem or Green standing. Will Labour lose it to UKIP?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited March 2017
    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
    What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count? because i think it should americans have killed (intentionally or otherwise a shit load of innocent humans in the mid east it's just that WE don't pay attention to it. And yes there are as many western bombing of mid east lands as islamic bombings og the mid east if not more. We are not so innocent as trump said
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,373

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    Why? Just because YOU said so?

    Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.

    These people are in charge of educating children
    Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
    Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.

    Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.

    I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.

    Anyway, consider me flounced.

    All the best, folks
    Sorry to hear it, though I can see where you're coming from.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    nunu said:

    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
    What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count?
    It's easy to see why the centre-left is in so much trouble in most western countries when these are the types of arguments they are deploying.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    You cannot be that blind and stupid can you?

    Jeez

    oh shit probably in for a death sentence now for taking the lords name in vain......

    oh wait, no they will just turn the other cheek
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited March 2017
    AndyJS said:

    nunu said:

    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
    What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count?
    It's easy to see why the centre-left is in so much trouble in most western countries when these are the types of arguments they are deploying.
    i'm not the centre left. Why is bombing dozens of somalian refugees off the coast of yemen ok then? Not that you even heard of it. Are they brown. We let our governments get away with literal murder. We bomb the shit out of mid east/islamic countries, and then we cry why do they hate us so much. Not that it's right ofcourse. But do we have such a moral high ground.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited March 2017
    Andrew neil doing his churchillian speech on this week.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Floater said:


    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    I never said that the world does NOT have a problem with radical Islam. I said that any radical religion is a problem and pointed out that Christianity is not all teapots, scones and a slightly dotty vicar.
    Floater said:


    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?

    Sorry - I did not realise this was a Top Trumps competition.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    nunu said:

    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    But it is mostly an Islamic problem.

    If you slag off evangelical Christianity, it's most unlikely that you'll get death threats from angry evangelicals or be threatened with prosecution for inciting religious hatred.
    They will most likely turn the other cheek, and pray for you as a person who clearly has lost their soul and not yet let the lord into your life.
    Unless you are in Uganda in which case they try and have you killed or locked up for life. Look up Scott Lively and his fellow pastors who to went to Uganda and inspired the harsh laws there. Lively is now facing a lawsuit in the US as a result of his trip.
    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?
    What about every time america/the west has bombed the middle east. Does that not count? because i think it should americans have killed (intentionally or otherwise a shit load of innocent humans in the mid east it's just that WE don't pay attention to it. And yes there are as many western bombing of mid east lands as islamic bombings og the mid east if not more. We are not so innocent as trump said
    Asking for a friend:

    Is it true that Mohammed was the world's first Islamist?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403

    Chris_A said:

    Good to see Augustus again.

    How kind. I am surprised anyone remembers me at all.
    I might have met you at a PB meet way back in 2010 - my first PB meet :)
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2017
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    The number of evangelical Christians causing problems around the world is tiny.
    Back in the day, we largely got around the problem of evangelicals/radicals causing us problems by exporting them abroad to evangelize.

    It's how the empire got built.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730

    Floater said:


    Yes Beverley - the world does not have a problem with radical Islamism.

    I never said that the world does NOT have a problem with radical Islam. I said that any radical religion is a problem and pointed out that Christianity is not all teapots, scones and a slightly dotty vicar.
    Floater said:


    Tell you what for every atrocity committed by adherents of the religion of your choice in say last 4 years I will post details of 3 committed by Islamists - who do you think will run out of examples first?

    Sorry - I did not realise this was a Top Trumps competition.
    But one can mock the most radical Christians as much as one likes in this country, without serious risk of either violence or prosecution.

    Mock the most radical Muslims? That's a much riskier business.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic


    Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.

    Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.

    "For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."

    Time to start doing and stop emoting.
    We can hope.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    SeanT said:

    Get. Off. The. Site.

    Have you taken over from Mike then? Because until you are running PB.COM you do not get to tell me what to do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic


    Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.

    Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.

    "For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."

    Time to start doing and stop emoting.
    We can hope.
    Although people should ignore pleas to get off the site at least. Thats just mr t being mr t.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,730
    nunu said:

    For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.

    It's a sad fact that when fighting organisations like IS or the Taliban, innocent people will be killed. But it's still worth fighting such organisations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Again, according to Britain Elects, Labour has won four seats in the City of London.

    JC4PM!

    A terrifying prospect indeed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.

    Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).

    He's a bit obsessed by trump at present understandably , and any mention of uk issues is so poorly presented and lazily one sided (too close to the subject matter i expect) I worry if his non partisan pieces are as well researched as they appear, but I'm a big fan of olivers style and delivery.

    That said I think the successor thing has been known for years and years, though I didn't know there has been a spate of self immolation.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,761
    edited March 2017
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    fpt for rcs

    You'd be right if the "Problem of Islam" was just terror. Absolutely right.

    But, it isn't just that, is it?

    It's honour killings, cousin marriage, FGM, the niqab, the burqa, increasing homophobia, atomised northern cities, polygamy, implicit blasphemy laws, the curtailment of free speech, generalised race hate, new forms of anti-Semitism, and racist gang rape of underage white girls on an industrial scale. THIS is what Islam brings us. All of this and more.

    It's a fucking disaster. It just is. No one in their right minds, if they could have foreseen all this, would have allowed two Muslims into Britain in 1950, let alone two fucking million.

    All of Europe now faces this hellish nightmare. What do we do? We have to push back, as hard as possible, within the norms of liberal democracy. We have to start not-tolerating their intolerance. We have to start ejecting the crazier fringes of these communities: actually reducing their number.

    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic


    Yup. There is plenty we can do. We lack the will to do so.

    Tweeting about not being afraid and lighting bloody candles everywhere is pathetic. It's as if we're so concerned with talking about love and no division that we forget that we have to take real steps to ensure a free, socially cohesive society, that we forget that such societies don't just happen by accident and that evil needs to be actively confronted and defeated.

    "For evil to flourish, it is enough that good men do nothing."

    Time to start doing and stop emoting.
    We can hope.
    Although people should ignore pleas to get off the site at least. Thats just mr t being mr t.
    It's a bit manic at the moment.

    I'm still waiting for the third result but I think I'll call it a day.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,549
    edited March 2017
    kle4 said:

    More seriously, I don't know if people caught Last Week Tonight a few weeks ago where they interviewed the Dalai Lama.

    Not only are China trying to pull a fast one to try and lever in their own successor, there has been a serious spate of Buddhist monks self-immolating (setting light to themselves).

    He's a bit obsessed by trump at present understandably , and any mention of uk issues is so poorly presented and lazily one sided (too close to the subject matter i expect) I worry if his non partisan pieces are as well researched as they appear, but I'm a big fan of olivers style and delivery.

    That said I think the successor thing has been known for years and years, though I didn't know there has been a spate of self immolation.
    I think all of the US media are totally Trump obsessed. I watched a couple of hours of CNN 2 nights ago and it was just wall to wall Trump Trump Trump Trump...
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    The alternative is surrendering liberal democracy, women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment. That's it. That's the choice. We cannot avoid it forever.

    The same could be said for the more rabid evangelical christians, some of whom get to run faith schools. It is not necessarily just an islamic problem.

    Oh god, just shut the F up.
    Why? Just because YOU said so?

    Check the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum being taught here in the UK. As some of its highlights it is not too keen on "...women's rights, sexual freedom, the Enlightenment" as they are, apparently, against the Word of God.

    These people are in charge of educating children
    Just leave the site. Delete your account. Just go, now. Thanks.
    Yeah, I think I will to be honest. My local pub, there used to be this old lady, she was nice enough, but she used to have eccentric views. Rabid support for General Franco ("Now there was a decent man!") among other colourful opinions. Thing is, she was amusing enough.

    Had she recruited a load of people with similar opinions, young enough and experienced enough to know better, and started rattling tins for the BNP it would have been time to find another boozer.

    I'm well aware that every message board/site in the whole internet is not as good as it used to be. Perhaps I'll just go and read some books instead. Or go to an actual pub.

    Anyway, consider me flounced.

    All the best, folks
    Ignore Sean. He's an arrogant twerp.
  • Chris_A said:

    Good to see Augustus again.

    How kind. I am surprised anyone remembers me at all.
    I might have met you at a PB meet way back in 2010 - my first PB meet :)
    Yes, I remember! 2010 was it? That evening was my last involvement in politics generally, I think.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,403
    nunu said:

    For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.

    A large number of Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims, eg. Iran-Iraq War back in the 1980s (8 years long!), and IS car bombs in Iraq right up to the present day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    edited March 2017

    nunu said:

    For every person innocent person killed in the west by islamist terror many more innocent mideasterners have been killed by western governments. That is just a uncomfortable truth most posters on here have not/will not admit to because it is uncomfortable.

    A large number of Muslims have been killed by their fellow Muslims, eg. Iran-Iraq War back in the 1980s (8 years long!), and IS car bombs in Iraq right up to the present day.
    Indeed. We dont ignore that the west has caused harm and generally not helped in the Middle East, but that is not the root cause of problems there, that would infantilise them saying it's all outsiders fault when some of the issues ultimately Go back centuries, and none of it makes a difference to the realities we face at home.

    Everyone will calm down soon. Of course, that's part of the problem, even as the ability to move on is also a key strength of humanity usually, as nothing then truly gets addressed.

    Night all.
This discussion has been closed.