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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Six times as many LD supporters say they’re concerned about BR

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited February 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Six times as many LD supporters say they’re concerned about BREXIT than UKIP voters

The above chart is based on data from the latest Ipsos MORI issues index and shows the party splits of those, unprompted, naming BREXIT as the main, or one of the the main, issues facing Britain at the moment.

Read the full story here


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,499
    edited February 2017
    Interesting
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2017
    'An issue' =/= 'Concerned'.

    Fake news Mike?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Curious that Tories rate Brexit far more highly as an issue than UKIP.

    UKIP's figure may reflect that if you've won, you can be more detached.
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    Makes me feel better about my proxy better about UKIP finishing third or lower in Stoke
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    Patrick said:

    'An issue' =/= 'Concerned'.

    Fake news Mike?

    The data isn't fake and Mike uses words like 'suggest' and 'could' and a few question marks.
    Don't overuse the 'fake news' accusation.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,637
    If UKIP voters, UKIP voters, aren't concerned about Brexit, then WTF are they concerned about?!?

    Surely not gender-neutral bathrooms!
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    Sean_F said:

    Curious that Tories rate Brexit far more highly as an issue than UKIP.

    UKIP's figure may reflect that if you've won, you can be more detached.

    It is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean 'concern'. We need to get on with it.

    LD issue is to ensure that we don't
    Tory issue is to ensure that we do.
    Labour focussing more on health.
    UKIP don't give a shit - job largely done.
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    If UKIP voters, UKIP voters, aren't concerned about Brexit, then WTF are they concerned about?!?

    Surely not gender-neutral bathrooms!

    Immigrants?
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    If UKIP voters, UKIP voters, aren't concerned about Brexit, then WTF are they concerned about?!?

    Surely not gender-neutral bathrooms!

    Immigrants?
    Fridge cleaning?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    All well and good but only 13% are LD voters. I have certainly found in Copeland that a voter leaning between Labour and the Tories will move to the Tories when you point out to them that will ensure backing for May's Brexit plans
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    If UKIP voters, UKIP voters, aren't concerned about Brexit, then WTF are they concerned about?!?

    Surely not gender-neutral bathrooms!

    Presumably they are not concerned about it they are delighted about it and just want to focus on ensuring immigration is controlled
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    HYUFD said:

    All well and good but only 13% are LD voters. I have certainly found in Copeland that a voter leaning between Labour and the Tories will move to the Tories when you point out to them that will ensure backing for May's Brexit plans

    More than 13% are LD voters in some places. Burton on Trent, for example.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,264
    edited February 2017
    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    All well and good but only 13% are LD voters. I have certainly found in Copeland that a voter leaning between Labour and the Tories will move to the Tories when you point out to them that will ensure backing for May's Brexit plans

    More than 13% are LD voters in some places. Burton on Trent, for example.
    Less in Copeland and Stoke though
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Why angry? We had a free vote and the people voted to leave. You might disagree, but "angry" seems a very odd response
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    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Angry with Blair? Understandable....
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    From previous thread

    dixiedean said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    On-topic, the government's change of line seems at this stage to be more mood music than reality. The word austerity may be gone, but there is still the deficit to be brought down, and the Treasury quite happy to use Brexit risk as a bogeyman. Likewise, on social conservatism, immigration cuts are promised in the future from Brexit, and grammar schools were offered as a token, but is there really any major reversal in social policy underway and exercising the contributers on here. I've not seen too much evidence yet.

    Pulling a few cords and a bit of rhetoric in a certain direction, things having changed massively since the 1970s, does not a full return to Butskellism make as far as I can see.

    Why is selection by ability regarded as more socially conservative than selection by ability to pay?
    I don't think academic selection is regarded as "socially conservative" in general.

    Academic selection at 18 is largely uncontroversial.

    Academic selection at 16 is largely uncontroversial.

    Academic selection at 11 is generally seen as retrograde.

    Wonder where the threshold is - could they get away with proposing selection at 14?
    We already have selection at 14. It is called setting.
    I hate setting, but only because I'm the one who has to write the timetable...
    Isn't there software that does that these days?
    In the same way that there is softwares that will write a novel for you, yes. I can automate small chunks and it won't let me put two teachers in the same room (unless I really want to), but it is mostly hand crafted.
    If anyone out there in pb land knows of better timetableing software than Nova T6 please tell me.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    I think UKIP's vote has always been more about immigration and a nebulous sense that they were more Trumpish - supposedly say fearlessly what ordinary folk were scared to say, don't suck up to power, etc. - than about Brexit per se. Since there was a referendum on Brexit, of course they expressed their opinion, but I think they'd mostly rather have had a referendum on much less immigaion. There is a minority UKIP view that's view different and relaly is about independence and taking back control of everything (Richard Tyndall represents it very well), but that's a bit more abstract than most voters bother with.
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    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Don't get angry, get even.

    We shouldn't obstruct Brexit.

    Let it happen, and if we're proved wrong about it, so be it, it'll be great for the country and us, I'd much rather be mocked than see the UK struggle.

    If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left.
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    Iraq
    Spin
    Rub their noses
    Dome / Cool Britannia wankiness
    Not killing Gordo
    Bringing PC identity politics to the UK
    etc
    etc

    He made a huge difference to the UK. Nothing of it to our good. Justifiably detested by both left and right.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited February 2017
    The Lib Dems on 79% is not a great surprise quite honestly, it’s more or less their raison d'être after all. My only concern for them is how they channel this anger once we’ve left the EU and what great cause they rally behind next.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Patrick said:

    Iraq
    Spin
    Rub their noses
    Dome / Cool Britannia wankiness
    Not killing Gordo
    Bringing PC identity politics to the UK
    etc
    etc

    He made a huge difference to the UK. Nothing of it to our good. Justifiably detested by both left and right.

    Add fvcked up HofL reforms to that list
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2017
    "The main challenge for UKIP is to convert perceived anger about BREXIT into votes actually cast."

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Polls/ipsos-mori-issues-index-jan-2017-tables.pdf

    UKIP voters may not care too much about brexit - but they do want something done about the immigrants;

    Page 32.

    Most important issue = Immigration;

    Con / Lab / Lib / UKIP
    44% / 24% / 23% / 62%
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    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.



  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Patrick said:

    Iraq
    Spin
    Rub their noses
    Dome / Cool Britannia wankiness
    Not killing Gordo
    Bringing PC identity politics to the UK
    etc
    etc

    He made a huge difference to the UK. Nothing of it to our good. Justifiably detested by both left and right.

    Housing
    Lords reform
    Voting reform
    Vastly increasing public spending for little gain
    Tuition fees
    Iraq
    etc
    etc
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.

    Bogus story!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    tlg86 said:

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.

    Bogus story!
    Another beauty.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Don't get angry, get even.

    We shouldn't obstruct Brexit.

    Let it happen, and if we're proved wrong about it, so be it, it'll be great for the country and us, I'd much rather be mocked than see the UK struggle.

    If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left.
    If we rejoin anything it will be the EEA (though free movement will still be the elephant in the room) I can't imagine us ever rejoining the full EU again
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    Patrick said:

    'An issue' =/= 'Concerned'.

    Fake news Mike?

    The data isn't fake and Mike uses words like 'suggest' and 'could' and a few question marks.
    Don't overuse the 'fake news' accusation.
    "Could", of course, renders the entire sentence meaningless. Almost anything could happen.
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    HYUFD said:

    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too

    As we don't know what US and Commonwealth first choicers see as the second choice, it's a bit of a stretch to say that combined they beat Europe. In any case, in our first past the post system, 47% is one hell of a mandate.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Telegraph Data
    Trump's attack on the media comes at a time when the public's confidence in the media is at one of its all-time lows https://t.co/1cA6e94PcW https://t.co/W6S4fmaSAC
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    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    All well and good but only 13% are LD voters. I have certainly found in Copeland that a voter leaning between Labour and the Tories will move to the Tories when you point out to them that will ensure backing for May's Brexit plans

    I thought Jeremy Corbyn had sold out on his supporters, and was backing Mrs May`s Brexit plan.

    That was a few days ago, of course.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,660

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.



    Very sensible.
    Are we still allowed 'alternate facts' ?
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Don't get angry, get even.

    We shouldn't obstruct Brexit.

    Let it happen, and if we're proved wrong about it, so be it, it'll be great for the country and us, I'd much rather be mocked than see the UK struggle.

    If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left.
    If we rejoin anything it will be the EEA (though free movement will still be the elephant in the room) I can't imagine us ever rejoining the full EU again
    I couldn't imagine us leaving. It would be bold to rule out rejoining.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

    Every poll shows Tory voters not just UKIP voters put ending free movement ahead of single market access so May is only doing what her voters want.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,010

    The Lib Dems on 79% is not a great surprise quite honestly, it’s more or less their raison d'être after all. My only concern for them is how they channel this anger once we’ve left the EU and what great cause they rally behind next.

    There's bound to be something: Iraq, tuition fees, Brexit. There always something to complain about.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too

    As we don't know what US and Commonwealth first choicers see as the second choice, it's a bit of a stretch to say that combined they beat Europe. In any case, in our first past the post system, 47% is one hell of a mandate.

    It is actually 1% less than what Remain actually got!
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Of course Ukip voters aren't concerned - they're getting their own way. It's sit back and let them get on with it time.

    However, if Brexit is stopped or even delayed, those voters will switch round rapidly. Even Jezza can see that you don't kick a hornet's nest when they are peaceful. Not just before a couple of important bye-elections.

    Ukip will not win Stoke or Copeland. They were never in the frame, and never will be unless the HoL upsets the applecart within the next week . It's why Jezza had a three-line whip. The Northern Labour MPs can read the runes.

    Only the die-hards will bother to vote Ukip - their purpose has disappeared for the time being.
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    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

    Every poll shows Tory voters not just UKIP voters put ending free movement ahead of single market access so May is only doing what her voters want.
    Membership =/= Access
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    Some reality creeping in to discussions about a European financial transaction tax:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-17/eu-financial-transaction-tax-said-to-hit-roadblock-over-pensions
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    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

    Every poll shows Tory voters not just UKIP voters put ending free movement ahead of single market access so May is only doing what her voters want.

    She should be doing what is best for the country. Second guessing voters is a fool's errand and is not something real leaders do. Imagine if Mrs Thatcher had done it in the early years of her premiership.

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    PlatoSaid said:

    Telegraph Data
    Trump's attack on the media comes at a time when the public's confidence in the media is at one of its all-time lows https://t.co/1cA6e94PcW https://t.co/W6S4fmaSAC

    With good reason:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/17/europes-biggest-paper-bild-bogus-refugee-sex-mob-story

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    PlatoSaid said:

    Telegraph Data
    Trump's attack on the media comes at a time when the public's confidence in the media is at one of its all-time lows https://t.co/1cA6e94PcW https://t.co/W6S4fmaSAC

    what is he actually attacking? the only media most of his base now consumes is breitbart and twitter, n'est-ce pas?

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    tlg86 said:

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.

    Bogus story!
    can we have "the herd" back, for compensation?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    All well and good but only 13% are LD voters. I have certainly found in Copeland that a voter leaning between Labour and the Tories will move to the Tories when you point out to them that will ensure backing for May's Brexit plans

    I thought Jeremy Corbyn had sold out on his supporters, and was backing Mrs May`s Brexit plan.

    That was a few days ago, of course.
    Plenty of his MPs opposed Brexit and the Labour candidate in Copeland may well be of a similar view if elected, only Ken Clarke opposed it on the Tory benches
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Patrick said:

    Sean_F said:

    Curious that Tories rate Brexit far more highly as an issue than UKIP.

    UKIP's figure may reflect that if you've won, you can be more detached.

    It is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean 'concern'. We need to get on with it.
    LD issue is to ensure that we don't
    Tory issue is to ensure that we do.
    Labour focussing more on health.
    UKIP don't give a shit - job largely done.
    Or it could be that the main concern of Conservative voters is that we do not end up with the economy wrecked. In this, they are like Lib Dem voters.

    A lot of them have not yet realised that Mrs May, with her concern to outflank UKIP and keep the Tory Party united, is doing precisely that.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too

    As we don't know what US and Commonwealth first choicers see as the second choice, it's a bit of a stretch to say that combined they beat Europe. In any case, in our first past the post system, 47% is one hell of a mandate.

    It is actually 1% less than what Remain actually got!

    And 10% more than the Tories got in 2015.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Some reality creeping in to discussions about a European financial transaction tax:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-17/eu-financial-transaction-tax-said-to-hit-roadblock-over-pensions

    What tax exactly is proposed. Is it a tax on ALL financial transactions or on spot currency conversions (Which seems to be the definition of a tobin tax) ?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.
    Don't get angry, get even.

    We shouldn't obstruct Brexit.

    Let it happen, and if we're proved wrong about it, so be it, it'll be great for the country and us, I'd much rather be mocked than see the UK struggle.

    If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left.
    If we rejoin anything it will be the EEA (though free movement will still be the elephant in the room) I can't imagine us ever rejoining the full EU again
    I couldn't imagine us leaving. It would be bold to rule out rejoining.
    We are not going to rejoin the EU. We would effectively be humiliated and lose even the influence we had before as anything we pushed for could be ignored as the EU would know we cannot afford to leave
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    can we have "the herd" back, for compensation?

    Herd is a synonym for Brexiteer...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

    Every poll shows Tory voters not just UKIP voters put ending free movement ahead of single market access so May is only doing what her voters want.

    She should be doing what is best for the country. Second guessing voters is a fool's errand and is not something real leaders do. Imagine if Mrs Thatcher had done it in the early years of her premiership.

    Mrs Thatcher always kept the base on board which is why she won 3 elections and Heath lost 3 and won only one
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too

    As we don't know what US and Commonwealth first choicers see as the second choice, it's a bit of a stretch to say that combined they beat Europe. In any case, in our first past the post system, 47% is one hell of a mandate.

    It is actually 1% less than what Remain actually got!

    And 10% more than the Tories got in 2015.

    While Leave got 22% more than Labour got in 2015
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,660
    Interesting thread header, though. The implication is that the most committed leavers now tend to regard Brexit as a settled issue (which is arguably confirmed by the handwaving away of any possible problems brought up by those opposed).

    Extraordinarily, concern about the economy is at its lowest score since 2008 (the NHS and housing near highs).
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Good to see Blair on top form today.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.
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    PClipp said:

    Patrick said:

    Sean_F said:

    Curious that Tories rate Brexit far more highly as an issue than UKIP.

    UKIP's figure may reflect that if you've won, you can be more detached.

    It is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean 'concern'. We need to get on with it.
    LD issue is to ensure that we don't
    Tory issue is to ensure that we do.
    Labour focussing more on health.
    UKIP don't give a shit - job largely done.
    Or it could be that the main concern of Conservative voters is that we do not end up with the economy wrecked. In this, they are like Lib Dem voters.

    A lot of them have not yet realised that Mrs May, with her concern to outflank UKIP and keep the Tory Party united, is doing precisely that.
    Or maybe they're concerned that we don't wreck our democracy. Parliament not Brussels. Essentially all Remainers think staying in means staying in as things are now not as they will inevitably develop to become in the EU. They have not realised this yet. Status quo was never an option. The choice was Brexit or Superstate.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited February 2017
    Taking parameters in isolation, though, does not tell you much about priorities or motivations in the real world.

    In my workshops on safety, I spend a lot of time providing scientists with tools to help them set realistic priorities for improving safety and security. After conducting your brainstorming - the first step, and this is all this poll does (in fact, by only asking the first thing that comes to mind it is taking only the very first movement of the first step) - to generate your wish/fear list, then you must decide where to put the resources. To do that you have to ask a series of questions, such as:

    What resources will it take? Do we have the resources/can we get them? At what opportunity cost?
    How long will it take?
    How difficult will it be? How able are we to do it, even with the resources?
    What else would does this action depend on to be successful?
    How willing are people to make the change?
    What is the likely impact? (probability of success x return)?

    This is not an exhaustive list, but is indicative of the weightings that are needed to go from a wish list to an actual sense of people's motivations to act - what are they willing to put the time and effort into to do something about the initial vague feeling.

    Mike in his 'this suggests that' is taking the results of the very first inch of the first step as the final priorities - or motivation - list. It may be true, but it is a highly suspect approach in my opinion. So suspect, it smacks me of confirmation bias.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    U.S. and Commonwealth actually 1% more important than Europe on that poll and of course Europe includes non EU nations too

    As we don't know what US and Commonwealth first choicers see as the second choice, it's a bit of a stretch to say that combined they beat Europe. In any case, in our first past the post system, 47% is one hell of a mandate.

    It is actually 1% less than what Remain actually got!

    And 10% more than the Tories got in 2015.

    While Leave got 22% more than Labour got in 2015

    I know.

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    Pulpstar said:

    What tax exactly is proposed. Is it a tax on ALL financial transactions or on spot currency conversions (Which seems to be the definition of a tobin tax) ?

    On all transactions, including derivatives, although at a low rate. The contradiction with efforts by France and Germany to grab the UK's Euro-denominated clearing business is one of the more amusing aspects of it.
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    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Think I am one step behind Blair. Still angry.

    Edit: and I'm planning to stay there for some considerable time.

    Anger is a destructive emotion if dwelled upon. I am not angry we are leaving the EU as I never much cared for it. I am worried we are leaving the single market, though; especially on terms to be negotiated by a Prime Minister whose only concern is how the right of her party might react to any deal done.

    Every poll shows Tory voters not just UKIP voters put ending free movement ahead of single market access so May is only doing what her voters want.

    She should be doing what is best for the country. Second guessing voters is a fool's errand and is not something real leaders do. Imagine if Mrs Thatcher had done it in the early years of her premiership.

    Mrs Thatcher always kept the base on board which is why she won 3 elections and Heath lost 3 and won only one
    unfortunately the giveaways have pretty much all been given away. (or rather the family silver has all been sold). If you see sid, tell him.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.

    Despite Brexit...
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Just wondering what order this irregular verb should be in...

    I am spinning the story.

    You are providing fake news.

    He is spreading propaganda.

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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edited February 2017
    MTimT said:


    Mike in his 'this suggests that' is taking the results of the very first inch of the first step as the final priorities - or motivation - list. It may be true, but it is a highly suspect approach in my opinion. So suspect, it smacks me of confirmation bias.


    sorry, missed the point. edited. coat got.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 905

    The Lib Dems on 79% is not a great surprise quite honestly, it’s more or less their raison d'être after all. My only concern for them is how they channel this anger once we’ve left the EU and what great cause they rally behind next.

    Rejoining the EU obviously!!
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited February 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see Blair on top form today.


    I know. He was hilarious, wasn't he?

    :)

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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034


    Just wondering what order this irregular verb should be in...

    I am spinning the story.

    You are providing fake news.

    He is spreading propaganda.

    Trump is tremendous

    The MSM are wrong.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.


    Spending is rising - the world is coming to an end - unbalanced economy, savings rate down.

    Spending is falling - the world is coming to an end. Brexit.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see Blair on top form today.

    Is he lying with panache?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.

    Unexpectedly justifiable in the sense that market consensus was for a 1% rise.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.



    OGH bans POTUS from PB shocker .... :sunglasses:
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    Meanwhile, for all the attention Tony Blair has had this morning for getting his response to the referendum result entirely wrong, it's worth giving some praise to Lucy Thomas, formerly deputy director of BSE, who this morning got it resoundingly correct:

    https://twitter.com/lucycthomas/status/832488126996045824
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.


    Spending is rising - the world is coming to an end - unbalanced economy, savings rate down.

    Spending is falling - the world is coming to an end. Brexit.
    You beat me to it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,660
    PClipp said:

    Patrick said:

    Sean_F said:

    Curious that Tories rate Brexit far more highly as an issue than UKIP.

    UKIP's figure may reflect that if you've won, you can be more detached.

    It is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean 'concern'. We need to get on with it.
    LD issue is to ensure that we don't
    Tory issue is to ensure that we do.
    Labour focussing more on health.
    UKIP don't give a shit - job largely done.
    Or it could be that the main concern of Conservative voters is that we do not end up with the economy wrecked. In this, they are like Lib Dem voters.

    A lot of them have not yet realised that Mrs May, with her concern to outflank UKIP and keep the Tory Party united, is doing precisely that.
    The Mori attitudes survey shows the prevalence of remarkable complacency across the political spectrum regarding the economy.
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    MTimT said:


    Just wondering what order this irregular verb should be in...

    I am spinning the story.

    You are providing fake news.

    He is spreading propaganda.

    Trump is tremendous

    The MSM are wrong.
    isn't twitter\/facebook/breibart etc. now bigger than the MSM? or rather, they are the MSM
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39002325

    Retail sales fall "unexpectedly"

    Another Brexit beauty.

    Spending is rising - the world is coming to an end - unbalanced economy, savings rate down.
    Spending is falling - the world is coming to an end. Brexit.
    Heh

    My main concern is that the UK economy is so dependent on people like my brother's family whose main 'hobby' is shopping.
    I'd much rather were an export lead economy with a BoP surplus. I appreciate this is wishful thinking :>
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,660
    JackW said:

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.



    OGH bans POTUS from PB shocker .... :sunglasses:
    Channeling his inner Bercow ?
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    Naturally, I can't comment on such things. Vana Tallinn liqueur is very good, though.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PippaCrerar: EXCLUSIVE: Simon Fletcher, one of Jeremy Corbyn’s closest aides, is quitting over the direction of Labour under its embattled leader
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    isamisam Posts: 40,933
    This UKIP failure in Stoke seems to be in the same PB certainty bracket as

    Ukip not winning Euros
    Carswell not winning Clacton by E
    Reckless losing Rochester By E
    NOM at GE 15
    "It's the economy, stupid' 'meaning Remain win the Ref
    ...and the first female POTUS!
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Eagles,

    "Let it happen, and ...If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left."

    Funny that. I remember the Tories saying something similar in 1997. Let this new kid Blair ruin the economy like they always do and we'll be back within three years. How did that turn out?
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    UKIP are not in the frame at Copeland and drifting steadily out at Stoke.
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    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    "Let it happen, and ...If it turns out Brexit is a disaster, well we can be proved right, and imagine the look on the Leavers face when they realise that we'll have to rejoin on the EU on worse terms than we left."

    Funny that. I remember the Tories saying something similar in 1997. Let this new kid Blair ruin the economy like they always do and we'll be back within three years. How did that turn out?

    Err...they did ruin the public finances very comprehensively but it took a decade....
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    JackW said:

    The term "fake news" is now banned on PB

    It's become a cliche for people avoiding proper analysis.



    OGH bans POTUS from PB shocker .... :sunglasses:
    it was Luckyguy1983 wasn't it!

    ...
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    MTimT said:


    Just wondering what order this irregular verb should be in...

    I am spinning the story.

    You are providing fake news.

    He is spreading propaganda.

    Trump is tremendous

    The MSM are wrong.
    isn't twitter\/facebook/breibart etc. now bigger than the MSM? or rather, they are the MSM
    https://www.similarweb.com/top-websites/category/news-and-media

    Breibart is #106; BBC News is #9 and #20 (.co.uk and .com)

    + Alexa data:
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/breitbart.com

    The question of what the MSM is now, and what it will be in ten years' time, is very interesting, and especially if the current memes continue.
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    isam said:

    This UKIP failure in Stoke seems to be in the same PB certainty bracket as

    Ukip not winning Euros
    Carswell not winning Clacton by E
    Reckless losing Rochester By E
    NOM at GE 15
    "It's the economy, stupid' 'meaning Remain win the Ref
    ...and the first female POTUS!

    you'll no doubt be making money anyhoo.

    it will probably be a nuttall website failure rather than a ukip failure if it happens i guess. i suspect the stoke electorate is not going to swing so wildly. turnout i suppose
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    https://www.similarweb.com/top-websites/category/news-and-media

    Breibart is #106; BBC News is #9 and #20 (.co.uk and .com)

    + Alexa data:
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/breitbart.com

    The question of what the MSM is now, and what it will be in ten years' time, is very interesting, and especially if the current memes continue.

    yes, I'm not sure how to understand alexa (after a few seconds googling).

    Suspect the trump voters equally likely to read bbc as I am breitbart
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited February 2017
    Mr Sam,

    I voted Labour through the seventies up until 1997. I then switched to the LDs (and quite liked Paddy and the alky one) through to 2015 when I voted Kipper. I wouldn't think of voting Ukip now ... unless the anti-democrats gain the upper hand. Give me a good reason to so.

    Once Tim ( a good old God-botherer) loses his Euro-fanaticism, I'll probably go back to the Yellows. Unless they dry hump the Greens, of course. I don't want to spend my dotage in a draughty cave eating grass.

    This is a survey of one person (me) but why would Stoke vote Ukip at the moment?.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    Scott_P said:
    Odds on Tony Blair being next LD leader would probably be shorter now
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    Scott_P said:

    @PippaCrerar: EXCLUSIVE: Simon Fletcher, one of Jeremy Corbyn’s closest aides, is quitting over the direction of Labour under its embattled leader

    Corbyn’s Labour has a direction? – This will come as a shock to a great many pundits.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2017

    Corbyn’s Labour has a direction?

    Yes, downwards.
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    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Odds on Tony Blair being next LD leader would probably be shorter now
    what are the odds for elvis, russ abbot etc?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    For anyone who doesn't understand betting:

    If you bet £20 on Tony Blair becoming the next Labour leader, you'll lose £20.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,171

    Pulpstar said:

    What tax exactly is proposed. Is it a tax on ALL financial transactions or on spot currency conversions (Which seems to be the definition of a tobin tax) ?

    On all transactions, including derivatives, although at a low rate. The contradiction with efforts by France and Germany to grab the UK's Euro-denominated clearing business is one of the more amusing aspects of it.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-17/eu-financial-transaction-tax-said-to-hit-roadblock-over-pensions
    "Sand in the wheels" (© James Tobin) has now coalesced into a roadblock.
This discussion has been closed.