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  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
  • Options
    On topic: Giving Labour both barrels over their record in power is undoubtedly a good idea - because it is indefensible. But agree with OGH that how they do this and care over which aspects of the 13 year Labour multi-departmental clusterfu<k is also needed.

    Agree with Antifrank that digging out horrors where Redward was in charge must be a fruitful endeavour.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, aren't all those countries outside of the eurozone or any other monetary union?

    It's also worth mentioning that whilst I'm sure there'll be an earnest debate about specific numbers a theoretically independent Scotland would have a fairly large debt and deficit as it takes its share from the UK upon separation.

    Morris , absolutely no different to we have now and at present have no say in changing that fact, I defy anyone to give me a positive case as to why it is good to give your neighbour all your money and ask them to tell you what it should be spent on and decide what pocket money you get. I dare anyone to give a reasoned argument and not the usual bollocks about bigger market, smooth out volatility. In the union we are close to bankrupt , we have no way of changing policy and it cannot be any worse to be deciding our own destiny.
    malc you get to vote the same as the rest of us. You also have a Parliament which is meant to look after your affairs and decide your spending priorities. All its priorities seem to be about spending more; not very AAA.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    F1: today's the first day of the Young Driver (New Tyre) Test. It runs from 17-19 July, and the final day will involve, I think, running on the new tyres.

    The information regarding the new tyres will be openly available to every team.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,906
    edited July 2013
    @Yorkcity

    "This could be a good idea for public health, political advertisting on the back of fag packets, might help stop you smoking ."

    I like it! Talking of bad taste advertising

    I was once asked by a French company to do an ad which opened on a close up of pig's face walking right to left with a sound track which went clunk....clunk....clunk.

    Slowly the camera pulled back to reveal a pig walking with a wooden leg. Cut to pack shot of a leg of pork.

    It got as far as a pre production meeting where the client insisted it had to be done for real.
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    tim said:

    @Carlotta

    Keogh pointed to low nursing : patient ratios not Labour

    I realise you are going to spin that the govt shouldn't accept this though

    You can spin back and forth with everyone as much as you want Tim, and you may be right. But damage is being done.

    Did you see the front pages of this morming's Times, Telegraph and Mail? All fingers ponting at Labour.

    Voters don't read PB, but they will see the papers. And they will see broadcast news of Burnham trying - wide-eyed - to defend himself.

    The NHS is going to get progressively worse because costs and ages are rising and we can't afford to make it progressively better. Even the money Labour pumped-in had led to dissatisfaction and needless deaths and I'd guess the NHS requires a lot more money than that.

    I expect most politicians know the state can't afford the wonderful service we all want, but neither party will go for huge reform, because they are all too gutless.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,436
    tim said:

    @patrickwintour: Good idea ? Coalition says aged 11 every child will be told whether or not they are in the bottom 10 % in country. Too small to fail ?

    After a four hour class the 10% of eleven year olds who can't understand "above average mortality" will be given special help

    Here's a question tim:

    You are the headmaster of a school. It is Form 3B's parents' evening. Johnny's parents approach you and ask why he is bottom of the class.

    Do you:

    a) provide them with a KS2 Maths Learning Book and direct them to the chapter on averages; or
    b) agree to work with them, with Johnny and with Johnny's teacher to see if any improvements can be made?

  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MG Fed up of making reasonable responses.. they have all been met with scorn and derision from you and your fellow travellers, even when I and others have asked reasonable questions about policies.So trot orf then
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,129

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, aren't all those countries outside of the eurozone or any other monetary union?

    It's also worth mentioning that whilst I'm sure there'll be an earnest debate about specific numbers a theoretically independent Scotland would have a fairly large debt and deficit as it takes its share from the UK upon separation.

    Morris , absolutely no different to we have now and at present have no say in changing that fact, I defy anyone to give me a positive case as to why it is good to give your neighbour all your money and ask them to tell you what it should be spent on and decide what pocket money you get. I dare anyone to give a reasoned argument and not the usual bollocks about bigger market, smooth out volatility. In the union we are close to bankrupt , we have no way of changing policy and it cannot be any worse to be deciding our own destiny.
    malc you get to vote the same as the rest of us. You also have a Parliament which is meant to look after your affairs and decide your spending priorities. All its priorities seem to be about spending more; not very AAA.
    Alan, Yes technically we do but as stated , being a small part of a large union does not benefit the small partner. If you look over the last 40 years we hav ehad only 1 government that Scotland voted for. The devolved parliament has little powers and gets an allocated amount of pocket money that it has to spend , it cannot change much or all that happens is budget is reduced, it is only kid on government as a sop to keep the peasants happy. Huge difference to having control of your own money and making your own decisions how it is spent. Would you give your neighbour your bank account and salary and let him decide how much you get back and how much he spends on your behalf, I think we all know the answer. Westminster can never be beneficial for Scotland , they must look after the main partner and that means policies and money for London and the south east, hard facts.
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    DickensDickens Posts: 1
    @financier

    It is the notion that money, bonuses and material reward are the only way of motivating people that has brought this country to its present sorry state. It used to be the case that many people, especially those working in the public sector, were motivated by the value to society of the work in which they were engaged and the respect in which society held them. They worked in a system which was sufficiently resourced to deliver that which was expected of it and provided their income was adequate to meet their needs they were not interested in chasing ever more material reward. Then round about the 1980s the notion that money was the only way to motivate people and that correspondingly it was the only index of the worth of what they were doing came along. Material reward became the only mark of the respect and esteem in which people were held and so of course everybody chased ever bigger material rewards. I don't know how we unwind this but we need to escape from the idea that monetary reward is the only way of demonstrating how much we value somebody's contribution.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Patrick said:

    Agree with Antifrank that digging out horrors where Redward was in charge must be a fruitful endeavour.

    Did he actually "do" anything? And are the LibDems going to be happy with trawling over that?.... Ah,,I see your point...

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Given that Labour's GE2010 manifesto was to cut NHS spending - I hardly think they're in a position to bitch about it now. It was written by EdM wasn't it?
    Fenster said:



    You can spin back and forth with everyone as much as you want Tim, and you may be right. But damage is being done.

    Did you see the front pages of this morming's Times, Telegraph and Mail? All fingers ponting at Labour.

    Voters don't read PB, but they will see the papers. And they will see broadcast news of Burnham trying - wide-eyed - to defend himself.

    The NHS is going to get progressively worse because costs and ages are rising and we can't afford to make it progressively better. Even the money Labour pumped-in had led to dissatisfaction and needless deaths and I'd guess the NHS requires a lot more money than that.

    I expect most politicians know the state can't afford the wonderful service we all want, but neither party will go for huge reform, because they are all too gutless.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Brogan's morning email:

    "The NHS row will go on: expect it to dominate PMQs today. The uproar confirms the remarkable turnaround in perceptions of the NHS. A year ago it remained immune to criticism, a Labour fortress impervious to any Tory critique. Jeremy Hunt has achieved what Conservatives either thought impossible, or hadn't thought of trying: instead of persuading the public that the Tories can be trusted with the health service, he has convinced us that Labour can't be - and that the NHS is fallible. Quite a turnaround for a minister who a year ago was in intensive care."
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    On topic, the NHS *wasn't* safe in Labour's hands, and a growing number of the public are believing that they are not safe in the NHS's hands, and with good reason.

    It's not those die-hard NHS institutionalist supporters that the Tories need to win over; it's those who care about the quality of care. That is a debate about pragmatics and the battle to be won is about who the extremists are. As Mike points out, there are some who regard the NHS as a religion and criticism of any aspect of it as akin to heresy. (As an aside, the standing of religion has taken something of a knock in recent yearsm given how individuals and institutions used their public image and power to cover up wrongdoing - something not unknown in the NHS either).

    Are the extremists those who would seek to change the NHS to make it more responsive or those who argue against them? Is it the change or the protection which is ideologically driven?

    Mike is right that there is a suspicion that the Tories are not seen as 'true believers'. The question is whether that is a good thing or not.

    I might also add that Labour, and their allies in the healthcare system, have cried wolf frequently over Tory reforms (while studiously ignoring the ones they themselves let in). One has to question to what extent their attacks will be written off as 'more of the same' and politics as usual.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    This really is appalling. I saw it in PEye and now the Mail has it.

    "A forensic science graduate says her life was made a misery after she was allegedly harassed by police following a split from her PC boyfriend.

    Katie Bowman, who has never been convicted of a crime, claims police interest in her – which saw her stopped 70 times for suspected offences ranging from drink-driving to assault – meant she could ‘barely leave the house’.

    The 24-year-old alleges she was targeted over 28 months by Thames Valley Police officers from High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, after splitting from Alexander Ash.

    Miss Bowman says that despite never securing a conviction against her, the force has kept damaging intelligence reports on her which are stopping her getting a job.

    She has won the support of her local MP, Attorney General Dominic Grieve, who said he was ‘seriously concerned’ by damning comments held on file about her, which he said bordered on ‘trivial’.

    ...Miss Bowman, now engaged and expecting her first child, says she was breathtested 70 times – 54 in one year from September 2007. Each time the result was negative.

    She was stopped on suspicion of possessing drugs and given a caution for an alleged assault – later rescinded after a professional standards investigation. Her car was seized eight times, and she was given disorder penalty notices.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2366360/Forensic-science-graduate-stopped-70-TIMES-police-splitting-PC-lover.html#ixzz2ZHztVckn
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,906
    @Moniker

    "As someone brought up on the NHS being " the envy of the world " , I'm to this day upset by the low opinion continental europeans have of it. Italians frequently praise the French health model , never the UK's."

    Those Italians praising the French system obviously haven't had the experience of queuing in a pharmacy while someone completes the bureaucracy on collecting a prescription
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,129

    MG Fed up of making reasonable responses.. they have all been met with scorn and derision from you and your fellow travellers, even when I and others have asked reasonable questions about policies.So trot orf then

    Richard, I must have missed that one
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    Carlotta

    I seem to remember Redward was in charge of Energy for a fair while and indeed did precisely nothing. A significant part of the impending lights out risk is his fault. Energy requires decisions as existing generation doesn't last forever - and decisions mean upsetting one constituency or other.

    Redward's dithering and inability to set a strategy and make decisions on energy is perfectly sympomatic of a broader inability to decide or commit. What is Labour's policy on spending foir example?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Where I think Mr Hunt has pulled off the extraordinary is by taking up the Patient's Voice role. I can't recall a SoS really doing that - and Hunt has been honest enough to accept tough findings.

    We've had all sorts of SoS who've had a particular beef - AJ had dementia/depression as his hobby horse - but these were blobs of patients and care that needed more attention as a bit of pie chart - not the actual person being treated. I used to pen AJ's own messages about what he was doing so can be pretty confident that I know of what I speak...

    Brogan's morning email:

    "The NHS row will go on: expect it to dominate PMQs today. The uproar confirms the remarkable turnaround in perceptions of the NHS. A year ago it remained immune to criticism, a Labour fortress impervious to any Tory critique. Jeremy Hunt has achieved what Conservatives either thought impossible, or hadn't thought of trying: instead of persuading the public that the Tories can be trusted with the health service, he has convinced us that Labour can't be - and that the NHS is fallible. Quite a turnaround for a minister who a year ago was in intensive care."

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    'As Labour demonstrated so often during the Blair years the claim that the NHS is not safe in CON hands resonates.'

    Today's front pages suggest that it's no longer safe in Labour's hands either.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    ONS @statisticsONS
    #Unemployment was 2.51m in Mar-May, down 57k on Dec-Feb bit.ly/14TkSez

    ONS @statisticsONS
    #Employment was 29.71m in Mar-May, up 16k on Dec-Feb bit.ly/14TkSez

    Laura Kuenssberg @ITVLauraK
    21k fewer people claiming dole in June

    Markit Economics @MarkitEconomics
    UK ILO jobless -57,000 in 3m to May, rate at 7.8%; avg weekly earnings +1.7% y/y in 3m to May (May alone +1.5% y/y).

    Gareth Baines
    @GABaines
    UK: youth unemployment down 20,000

    Richard Edgar @ITVRichard
    Meanwhile, jobs data also out: better than expected fall in claimant count, down 21.2k, 8th fall in row and biggest drop since June 2010
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    tim said:

    @DavidHerdson.

    As Keogh said

    "‘Between 2000 and 2008, the NHS was rightly focused on rebuilding capacity and improving access after decades of neglect. The key issue was not whether people were dying in our hospitals avoidably, but that they were dying whilst waiting for treatment.’"

    How about setting a task for the PB Tories who are struggling with mortality data.
    Go back and add up all the people who died on waiting lists while the politicians you supported were deliberately underinvesting in health capacity.

    @tim

    Please show evidence for "deliberately".
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    'As Labour demonstrated so often during the Blair years the claim that the NHS is not safe in CON hands resonates.'

    Today's front pages suggest that it's no longer safe in Labour's hands either.

    The NHS (administrators, PFI contractors, lawyers, managers and Unions) are safe in Labours hands. Patients, not so much...
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    tim said:

    @DavidHerdson.

    As Keogh said

    "‘Between 2000 and 2008, the NHS was rightly focused on rebuilding capacity and improving access after decades of neglect. The key issue was not whether people were dying in our hospitals avoidably, but that they were dying whilst waiting for treatment.’"

    How about setting a task for the PB Tories who are struggling with mortality data.
    Go back and add up all the people who died on waiting lists while the politicians you supported were deliberately underinvesting in health capacity.

    Please feel free to do the same tim.

    The key word in your quote is 'decades'.

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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Employment data looking ok. People moving from self-employed and part time work into full time employed positions. Also the re-balancing between public and private employment continues.

    "The number of people in employment was 29.71 million for March to May 2013, up 16,000 from December 2012 to February 2013 and up 336,000 on a year earlier. The number of people in fulltime employment was 21.68 million for March to May 2013, up 28,000 from December 2012 to February 2013. The number of people in part-time employment was 8.04 million, down 12,000 from December 2012 to February 2013....

    Between March 2012 and March 2013, the number of people employed in the public sector fell by 308,000 and the number of people employed in the private sector increased by 740,000."

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_315111.pdf
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited July 2013


    @malcolmg

    No I wouldn't give my neighbour my bank account, but neither would I accuse the bloke down the road who's also having his account raided of being the problem.

    Get clear malc the people who are raiding your bank account live in NI, Wales and the North of England. With the Midlands some times dipping in too. These are the places which ain't paying their way and where Labour say your bank balance is theirs. The SE is a net payer and has no more desire to see its money pissed away than you have yours.

    The Nats are all over the shop on this having swallowed SLab division lines in the 80s and 90s. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are not English Tories living in the SE; most them are indifferent or see a tax cut combined with give my head peace. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are Scots who vote Labour. But as ever the Nats want to fight the fictitous enemy rather than face the real one. Scotland might not be too poor or too wee but I do wonder about too stupid.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    CCHQ Press Office @RicHolden
    Year-on-Year: 336,000 more people in #employment. 72,000 fewer #unemployed people. 144,000 fewer economically inactive people. Via ONS
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Good morning, everyone.

    Exciting new technology could cut space travel costs to 5% of current levels and flight time to Australia to 4 hours: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/across-the-universe/2013/jul/17/sabre-rocket-engine-reaction-skylon

    Test flights are pencilled in for 2019.

    The white heat of the technological revolution? The government is "picking winners"? David Willetts as Tony Benn? Scorchio.
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    OK Labour Market stats. Two forward-looking datasets that are very positive:

    Actual hours worked:
    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/hoursworkedchart_tcm77-317435.png

    Vacancies:
    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/resources/vacancieschart_tcm77-317598.png
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Yup.

    " Speaking on BBC Radio Four's Today programme, Mr Johnson argued that Labour had been forced to rebuild the NHS after decades of neglect. He pointed out that a review by Lord Darzi under Labour had identified a need to focus on quality. But he also acknowledged that there was a "resistance for instance to recording harms - when something terrible happens even to the extent of amputating the wrong limb".

    He said this happened "very rarely but nevertheless there was a relucantance to make this public". http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10184487/NHS-was-reluctant-to-make-mistakes-public-former-Labour-health-secretary-admits.html

    "We must focus on this remorselessly," he said.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Year-on-Year. Employees: Full Time UP 287,000; Part-Time UP 26,000....Self-employed: Full-Time UP 11,000; Part-Time UP 3,000.

    Gareth Baines
    @GABaines
    UK: there are 529,000 job vacancies in job centres
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    tim said:

    Financier said:

    tim said:

    @DavidHerdson.

    As Keogh said

    "‘Between 2000 and 2008, the NHS was rightly focused on rebuilding capacity and improving access after decades of neglect. The key issue was not whether people were dying in our hospitals avoidably, but that they were dying whilst waiting for treatment.’"

    How about setting a task for the PB Tories who are struggling with mortality data.
    Go back and add up all the people who died on waiting lists while the politicians you supported were deliberately underinvesting in health capacity.

    @tim

    Please show evidence for "deliberately".
    Recovered from claiming YouGov, an online pollster, have struggled to get enough 18-24 year olds because they don't have landlines have we?


    Evidence that Thatcher and Major govt deliberately underinvested in healthcare capacity?
    Well they chose not to, that's evidence, unless you are David Icke and think they were run by the New World Order.



    Yet again you run away from your own words when challenged. Government spending at differing economic times are a matter of record and priorities are often dictated by the economic circumstances of those times.

    You have not proven your use of the word "deliberate" and are not able so to do.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    Emma or Rod ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,001
    Lovely, more people paying tax, less people on the dole.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2013
    Intersting - even journos are now slapping down the MP for Nanny State Central.


    Sarah Wollaston MP ‏@drwollastonmp 10h
    To retain any credibility on lobbying, Cameron must postpone statement on minimum pricing until we know whether CTF has big alcohol clients

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 10h
    @drwollastonmp min pricing decision all to do with most of Cabinet telling No10 it'd be politically suicidal rather than Crosby


    @jameschappers @drwollastonmp
    Just like they DIDN'T several months ago when everyone thought it a good idea?

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 8m
    @drwollastonmp wrong. Gove/May/Pickles/Browne + more been trying to kill it for a year, as profoundly illiberal/unconservative

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 1m
    @drwollastonmp we all wrote stories about Cabinet revolt. Cabinet killed min pricing, not Crosby, and were right to do so imho
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    "There's going to be no let up on this and not just from Labour". Presumably much more from OGH who seems to be frit at Tory resurgence.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    I suspect you're right - its so incredibly pointless as well since nothing will change and we'll learn nothing from it.

    And Cameron will shout NHS back and maybe UNITE! for good measure. When is the last PMQs? It must be soon.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm not in favour of the Government trying to pick winners, but if we are going to try, we should be doing it on something technologically glamorous. Even if the investment turns out to be poor, providing inspiration is worth something.
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    On the quarter, employment of those 65+ increased 25k or 2.6%.

    Employment of those 16-64 fell 8k or -0.03%

    WTF?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,129

    @malcolmg

    No I wouldn't give my neighbour my bank account, but neither would I accuse the bloke down the road who's also having his account raided of being the problem.

    Get clear malc the people who are raiding your bank account live in NI, Wales and the North of England. With the Midlands some times dipping in too. These are the places which ain't paying their way and where Labour say your bank balance is theirs. The SE is a net payer and has no more desire to see its money pissed away than you have yours.

    The Nats are all over the shop on this having swallowed SLab division lines in the 80s and 90s. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are not English Tories living in the SE; most them are indifferent or see a tax cut combined with give my head peace. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are Scots who vote Labour. But as ever the Nats want to fight the fictitous enemy rather than face the real one. Scotland might not be too poor or too wee but I do wonder about too stupid.

    Alan, we agree even if we describe it slightly differently , though I do think other parts of UK have same uphill struggle due to the pull of London and the south east. Poor governments have failed to get a balanced economy and seem to have no clue how to fix it.
    Last thing we need is Labour in power but it is a toss up as to who is the worst Labour or Tory.
    For me whilst it may be selfish , Scotland have a chance to change things if independent. Whilst it may fail , the alternative is the continual slide downhill we have seen for years.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    Emma or Rod ?
    Stills and Nash hopefully - I'd imagine Ed thinks they are a the lawyers for the tobacco industry.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,009
    Roger said:

    @Yorkcity

    "This could be a good idea for public health, political advertisting on the back of fag packets, might help stop you smoking ."

    I like it! Talking of bad taste advertising

    I was once asked by a French company to do an ad which opened on a close up of pig's face walking right to left with a sound track which went clunk....clunk....clunk.

    Slowly the camera pulled back to reveal a pig walking with a wooden leg. Cut to pack shot of a leg of pork.

    It got as far as a pre production meeting where the client insisted it had to be done for real.

    A friend of mine had an idea for an anti smoking ad featuring the Ronseal guy at a funeral holding up a cigarette packet with "smoking kills" on and saying - "smoking - does exactly what it says on the box"
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    On the quarter, employment of those 65+ increased 25k or 2.6%.

    Employment of those 16-64 fell 8k or -0.03%

    WTF?

    That's surprising.

    CCHQ Press Office @RicHolden
    Youth #Unemployment: DOWN 20,000 overall. 15,000 of that fall is amongst young people unemployed for over 6 months. (16-24 age range)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    That's rather clever!
    isam said:

    Roger said:

    @Yorkcity

    "This could be a good idea for public health, political advertisting on the back of fag packets, might help stop you smoking ."

    I like it! Talking of bad taste advertising

    I was once asked by a French company to do an ad which opened on a close up of pig's face walking right to left with a sound track which went clunk....clunk....clunk.

    Slowly the camera pulled back to reveal a pig walking with a wooden leg. Cut to pack shot of a leg of pork.

    It got as far as a pre production meeting where the client insisted it had to be done for real.

    A friend of mine had an idea for an anti smoking ad featuring the Ronseal guy at a funeral holding up a cigarette packet with "smoking kills" on and saying - "smoking - does exactly what it says on the box"
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Rebalancing continues apace.

    Mark Easton @BBCMarkEaston
    In the year to March, the number employed in public sector fell 308,000 while private sector increased by 740,000. #ons
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    Unemployment down by 57,000
    tim in a foul mood (again)

    Two random thoughts - I blame the heat.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    malcolmg said:

    @malcolmg

    No I wouldn't give my neighbour my bank account, but neither would I accuse the bloke down the road who's also having his account raided of being the problem.

    Get clear malc the people who are raiding your bank account live in NI, Wales and the North of England. With the Midlands some times dipping in too. These are the places which ain't paying their way and where Labour say your bank balance is theirs. The SE is a net payer and has no more desire to see its money pissed away than you have yours.

    The Nats are all over the shop on this having swallowed SLab division lines in the 80s and 90s. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are not English Tories living in the SE; most them are indifferent or see a tax cut combined with give my head peace. The people keeping Scotland in the Union are Scots who vote Labour. But as ever the Nats want to fight the fictitous enemy rather than face the real one. Scotland might not be too poor or too wee but I do wonder about too stupid.
    Alan, we agree even if we describe it slightly differently , though I do think other parts of UK have same uphill struggle due to the pull of London and the south east. Poor governments have failed to get a balanced economy and seem to have no clue how to fix it.
    Last thing we need is Labour in power but it is a toss up as to who is the worst Labour or Tory.
    For me whilst it may be selfish , Scotland have a chance to change things if independent. Whilst it may fail , the alternative is the continual slide downhill we have seen for years.

    Well I'm with you on more centralisation, if there's one thing I'll give Salmond credit for ( it must be the heat ! ) it's that he has put localisation of decision making into the centre of politics and I think that can;t go back into the box. While I agree with you that the other regions must also find a way to buck the pull of the SE, the only way that is going to happen is if their politicians and local leaders get an agenda for growth rather than subsidy. But at the moment moaning is easier.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Financier said:

    tim said:

    Financier said:

    tim said:

    @DavidHerdson.

    As Keogh said

    "‘Between 2000 and 2008, the NHS was rightly focused on rebuilding capacity and improving access after decades of neglect. The key issue was not whether people were dying in our hospitals avoidably, but that they were dying whilst waiting for treatment.’"

    How about setting a task for the PB Tories who are struggling with mortality data.
    Go back and add up all the people who died on waiting lists while the politicians you supported were deliberately underinvesting in health capacity.

    @tim

    Please show evidence for "deliberately".
    Recovered from claiming YouGov, an online pollster, have struggled to get enough 18-24 year olds because they don't have landlines have we?


    Evidence that Thatcher and Major govt deliberately underinvested in healthcare capacity?
    Well they chose not to, that's evidence, unless you are David Icke and think they were run by the New World Order.



    Yet again you run away from your own words when challenged.
    Classic bully - try to front it out, then either a) offer a bet or b) go quiet......
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    antifrank said:

    I'm not in favour of the Government trying to pick winners, but if we are going to try, we should be doing it on something technologically glamorous. Even if the investment turns out to be poor, providing inspiration is worth something.

    ditto, if you pick cool stuff it's a guaranteed investment in inspiring people
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,001
    Plato said:

    Do squirrels get knighthoods?

    Apparently yes.. http://www.dykai.eu/fun/content/2011/12/05/juokingi-vaizdeliai/1002-fainos-foto-dykai-lt.jpg

    That's got to be worth a titter.. or an aww!
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    antifrank said:

    I'm not in favour of the Government trying to pick winners, but if we are going to try, we should be doing it on something technologically glamorous. Even if the investment turns out to be poor, providing inspiration is worth something.

    Let's hope they do not communicate by email to the US NSA --> CIA --> Boeing.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    Emma or Rod ?
    Stills and Nash hopefully - I'd imagine Ed thinks they are a the lawyers for the tobacco industry.
    If the economy keeps picking up over the next few months, I suspect the Eds will be in for a kicking on their record of borrow more and cut VAT. And then on how bad was the deficit when you left office. Labour denials of mismanagement will just accentuate how far away from reality they are.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
    Lobbying Bill won't be published until *after* PMQs, I'm told. Surely PM not worried about Crosby?

    All sounding very familiar this.

    tim - I don't follow the polls as closely as you - can you tell me where "lobbying" ranks in the issues the public are concerned about ?

    I doubt when Mr Crosby decided to scrape the barnacles off the blue boat he expected a shoal of red plankton to be reduced to guzzling up the detritus.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    MrJones said:

    RobD said:

    The link between some Tory MP's and companies who do well out of a privatised NHS is a campaign story that will run and run.

    The Tories need to get the idea of privatising the NHS out of their head. It isn't going to happen.
    The EU want to privatize the NHS hence why New Labour was trying to do it on the sly. It is true that the Tories need to hide they want to privatize the NHS if they want all this mud to stick properly.
    MrJones: do you know a good supplier of tin-foil hats? I'm worried about the EU/bankster mind control rays, and heard these protect you against them.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    I see The Mail is planning world domination - ambitions of the World's Most Popular Newspaper Website - in the Guardian. This must hurt.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jul/17/mail-online-growth-new-staff

    "Mail Online notched up a record 128 million monthly users in May, according to the latest figures from the Audit Bureau of Circulations, with about 60% of that audience outside the UK."
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    "Lynton Crosby has had no influence on government policy on the promotion of tobacco. Not something the previous government could say about Bernie Ecclestone."

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,001

    TGOHF said:

    Stunning employment figures - bad news for Miliband in advance of PMQs.

    Suggests he will use his 6 questions on the only topic left : CROSBY !!

    "Lynton Crosby has had no influence on government policy on the promotion of tobacco. Not something the previous government could say about Bernie Ecclestone."

    A fun line for PMQs
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    tim said:

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
    Lobbying Bill won't be published until *after* PMQs, I'm told. Surely PM not worried about Crosby?

    All sounding very familiar this.

    Yeah because it's top of the bill for the public ahead of : when's the little baby due, ooh look it's a scorchio weekend and wha's up with Rooney ?

    PBers need to take their anoraks off they're overheating.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RobD said:

    Plato said:

    Do squirrels get knighthoods?

    Apparently yes.. http://www.dykai.eu/fun/content/2011/12/05/juokingi-vaizdeliai/1002-fainos-foto-dykai-lt.jpg

    That's got to be worth a titter.. or an aww!
    FAB!!! LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The employment figures are very good. In particular, it's good to see that the over-65s are participating more in the workforce: they're going to need to in increasing numbers for the foreseeable future.
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    If Crosby is behind the Tories using extremely negative politics, then the Tories are looking desperate. The British public don't like this type of politics and see through it. This latest NHS report mainly concerns recent problems in the NHS, but also acknowledges that these have been ongoing for many years. So Labour and coalition have questions to answer about their management of the NHS. This is not appropriate for argument across the despatch box and instead should be considered by a joint select committee of the HOC/HOL.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,001
    tim said:



    The PB Tories record of spotting non stories in this area is not good.

    Anyone for toast ;)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
    Lobbying Bill won't be published until *after* PMQs, I'm told. Surely PM not worried about Crosby?

    All sounding very familiar this.

    tim - I don't follow the polls as closely as you - can you tell me where "lobbying" ranks in the issues the public are concerned about ?

    I doubt when Mr Crosby decided to scrape the barnacles off the blue boat he expected a shoal of red plankton to be reduced to guzzling up the detritus.

    In a nutshell that's a big part of the issue. The blues have stopped navel gazing, almost stopped filling the media with pointless announcements and have just let the silence from Labour reveal how little the opposition has prepared it's case.

    Then throw in some bullets going the other way.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
    Lobbying Bill won't be published until *after* PMQs, I'm told. Surely PM not worried about Crosby?

    All sounding very familiar this.

    tim - I don't follow the polls as closely as you - can you tell me where "lobbying" ranks in the issues the public are concerned about ?

    I doubt when Mr Crosby decided to scrape the barnacles off the blue boat he expected a shoal of red plankton to be reduced to guzzling up the detritus.


    The polling shows the Tories have a big problem with siding with big business and the wealthy, Dave and his friends caving in on tobacco will feed that.


    Ah just an anecdote then.

    Ed reduced to bottom feeder status - scraping around in the mud for purely party political issues - doesn't suggest he cares about the nation - just Labour.

  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The Tories have had their tails up for several days now - will EdM knock them off their perch at PMQs?

    I'm expecting 30mins of ARGHHHHHHHHHROOOOOOOOOOOORSHAAME
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074

    Mr. G, aren't all those countries outside of the eurozone or any other monetary union?

    It's also worth mentioning that whilst I'm sure there'll be an earnest debate about specific numbers a theoretically independent Scotland would have a fairly large debt and deficit as it takes its share from the UK upon separation.

    Finland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Luxembourg are all AAA and in the Euro.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, aren't all those countries outside of the eurozone or any other monetary union?

    It's also worth mentioning that whilst I'm sure there'll be an earnest debate about specific numbers a theoretically independent Scotland would have a fairly large debt and deficit as it takes its share from the UK upon separation.

    Finland, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands and Luxembourg are all AAA and in the Euro.
    Is UK AA with all credit rating agencies?
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Finance Nightmare Haunts Labour

    "Such is the increasing unthinking, banality of much of the Metropolitan media, that two significant contributions to the debate over Labour’s links with the unions were lost over the weekend.

    The first came from former MP, Minister and Diarist, Chris Mullin, who warned that the proposed changes to union affiliations could lead to ‘a decade of one party rule’, with Labour starved of cash, out of office.

    The second came in the shape of wise counsel from Professor Keith Ewing of the UK Constitutional Law Group and a long standing Labour Party member. Writing in Tribune and on Unison Active, Keith Ewing warned of another imminent political attack on free speech – and the unions.

    It came in the Government’s recent announcement on political lobbying, which in a quite great breathtaking assault on the unions had the audacity to compare these great democratic and voluntary organisations to private corporations.

    The intent is quite clear – any money spent by an affiliated union campaigning at a general election will be declared as Labour Party spending and not as ‘third party expenditure’ as it is at the moment.

    If this goes through, at a stroke the voice of the unions during election time will be silenced unless the Labour Party agrees to what the unions are doing or saying, for fear that it will cut into party election spending.

    If this legislation does succeed it begs the question; where will Labour find the £20 million it will need for the General Election?

    In different circumstances, Ed Miliband would be able to call upon the unions to help, even if it did mean that they had little or nothing to spend on their own campaigns. But he has managed to throw a serious spanner in the works with his proposals that trade unionists should ‘opt in’ to the political levy for Labour.....

    It is staggering to think that so little of this has been thought through and just how vulnerable Labour as a party has now become. It is astonishing that no attempt has been made to speak in advance to people such as Keith Ewing, or indeed any of the union general secretaries, before the die was cast."

    http://labourlist.org/2013/07/finance-nightmare-haunts-labour/

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Rather a good article - worth reading in full. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/16/stephen-bolsin-healthcare-services - this man blew the whistle on the NHS and was effectively blacklisted for it.

    "Long before David Cameron coined the phrase the "friends and family test", the cardiac surgeons and myself, as director of anaesthesia at Geelong hospital, near Melbourne, Australia, designed and implemented a safe and reliable cardiac surgery service. We measured key outcomes to confirm our performance. Our axiom was that "the service had to be good enough for us, or our relatives".

    I left Bristol Royal infirmary in 1996 after blowing the whistle on the needless deaths of 170 children following cardiac surgery. I joined a small department in Melbourne that had no acute or chronic pain service, elective surgery patients were admitted the night before their operation and I had to help guide the start of an adult cardiac surgery service.

    We progressed within five years to a mortality rate in the lowest quarter of all centres in the state of Victoria. We measured our wound infection rates and discovered that attention to detail had produced the lowest wound infection rate in the world. We published our performance in 2000. We compared our complication rates to other centres and confirmed the lowest re-exploration rates and the third lowest renal failure rate in the world. We published these results in 2004 and 2007, respectively. The cardiac surgery service that we had designed had developed such a focus on providing quality for its patients that it had become excellent.

    So, when I needed coronary artery surgery and was recommended a private hospital in Melbourne, I insisted my surgery should be in Geelong where I knew my chances of survival and avoiding complications were as high as anywhere in the world. There were no complications.

    Some NHS health managers and professionals have said the pursuit of excellence in healthcare is extremely difficult and may be impossible to achieve. I could not disagree more profoundly with such ill-informed comments. I believe that excellent services cost less than bad ones because they do not have to pay for treating avoidable complications. Excellent services can do more work because they have fewer patients with avoidable complications occupying beds, reducing throughput and leading to cancellations..."
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh
    Lobbying Bill won't be published until *after* PMQs, I'm told. Surely PM not worried about Crosby?

    All sounding very familiar this.

    tim - I don't follow the polls as closely as you - can you tell me where "lobbying" ranks in the issues the public are concerned about ?

    I doubt when Mr Crosby decided to scrape the barnacles off the blue boat he expected a shoal of red plankton to be reduced to guzzling up the detritus.


    The polling shows the Tories have a big problem with siding with big business and the wealthy, Dave and his friends caving in on tobacco will feed that.


    Ah just an anecdote then.

    Ed reduced to bottom feeder status - scraping around in the mud for purely party political issues - doesn't suggest he cares about the nation - just Labour.


    I thought you said Dave's decision on tobacco was taken for strategic party reasons.



    it was -and adopting a ridiculous socialist policy would be bad for us all too.

    #savetim



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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2013
    @Tim

    And New Labour's action on plain cigarette packaging.


    'Alan Johnson, Secretary of State Health, 16 December 2008:

    alan-johnson

    “I have to say, however, that despite the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is quite right about the huge response in favour of plain packaging, there is no evidence base that it actually reduces the number of young children smoking. We want to keep that under review, and when there is an evidence base for it, it could well be another important measure to meet our goal, which is to reduce the number of young people smoking.”

    Gillian Merron, Public Health Minister, 25 June 2009:

    gillian-merron

    “No studies have been undertaken to show that plain packaging of tobacco would cut smoking uptake among young people or enable those who want to quit to do so. Given the impact that plain packaging would have on intellectual property rights, we would undoubtedly need strong and convincing evidence of the benefits to health, as well as its workability, before this could be promoted and accepted at an international level – especially as no country in the world has introduced plain packaging.”

    Andy Burnham, Secretary of State Health, November 2009:

    sad-burnham

    “No studies have shown that introducing plain packaging of tobacco products would cut the number of young people smoking, or enable people who want to quit, to do so. Given the impact that plain packaging would have on intellectual property rights, we would need strong and convincing evidence showing the health benefits of this policy before it would be acceptable at an international level.”

    Exactly the same lines spun by the current government..
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    RobD said:

    The link between some Tory MP's and companies who do well out of a privatised NHS is a campaign story that will run and run.

    The Tories need to get the idea of privatising the NHS out of their head. It isn't going to happen.
    The EU want to privatize the NHS hence why New Labour was trying to do it on the sly. It is true that the Tories need to hide they want to privatize the NHS if they want all this mud to stick properly.
    MrJones: do you know a good supplier of tin-foil hats? I'm worried about the EU/bankster mind control rays, and heard these protect you against them.
    The EU want to privatize the NHS - for obvious reasons. Same with Royal Mail.

    Banksters

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    and hundreds of stories like it. Organized crime with iPhones instead of guns.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    More employment stats in key battle grounds.

    CCHQ Press Office @RicHolden
    North-West England: #Unemployment DOWN. #Employment UP. #Unemployment rate DOWN from 9.5% to 7.8%. 62,000 MORE in work... (year-on-year)

    Yorkshire & Humber: 3 months #Unemployment DOWN 4,000. #Employment UP 13,000. Year-on-year #Unemployment DOWN 13,000. #Employment UP 59,000

  • Options
    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    On the question of independent thinking/speaking of MPs: many people seem to take it for granted that open primaries would lead to (a) more diversity and (b) more independently-minded MPs. However, although this is often said, is there really any evidence for it? Is it not equally possible that you'd end up with rather vacuous MPs selected on populist local issues such as wanting to keep open the local A & E, opposing a local road, or promising pork-barrel local projects?

    I don't know the answer to this question, but I do think we haven't got enough experience of open primaries to form a sensible view on this. One Sarah Wollaston doesn't make a statistically-valid sample; on the other side of the coin, you could argue that some of the most independently-minded MPs can afford to be independently-minded precisely because they are effectively impregnable in very safe seats: think Dennis Skinner, Frank Field, Peter Bone, Ken Clarke, David Davis, etc.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    MrJones said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrJones said:

    RobD said:

    The link between some Tory MP's and companies who do well out of a privatised NHS is a campaign story that will run and run.

    The Tories need to get the idea of privatising the NHS out of their head. It isn't going to happen.
    The EU want to privatize the NHS hence why New Labour was trying to do it on the sly. It is true that the Tories need to hide they want to privatize the NHS if they want all this mud to stick properly.
    MrJones: do you know a good supplier of tin-foil hats? I'm worried about the EU/bankster mind control rays, and heard these protect you against them.
    The EU want to privatize the NHS - for obvious reasons. Same with Royal Mail.

    Banksters

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425

    and hundreds of stories like it. Organized crime with iPhones instead of guns.
    'Two of America's top law-enforcement officials, Attorney General Eric Holder and former Justice Department Criminal Division chief Lanny Breuer, confessed that it's dangerous to prosecute offending banks because they are simply too big. Making arrests, they say, might lead to "collateral consequences" in the economy.

    Nothing will change until bankers are prosecuted and sent to prison. Hefty sentencing will focus the minds and morals of the others.

    If not, I wouldn't be surprised if some members of the public lose patience, and start stringing them up from lamp posts.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Hols at home!

    "Shares in travel companies have fallen due to fears that the UK heatwave will lead to a sharp drop in the number of people booking last-minute foreign holidays."

    http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2007309&c=setreg&region=2
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,104

    Indeed, Mr. Jones.

    Space cannons, genetically engineered superfish and this Sabre engine all have a role to play.

    Oh, and graphene. I do wonder if we'll see that in F1.

    Graphene in F1: see http://f1elvis.com/2013/04/13/graphene-in-f1/

    For people complaining about Willett's 'picking winners' with respect to the £60 million given to Reaction Engines for their Sabre engine development, it is a small amount of money (relatively) for something that may have large rewards. Even if the engine cannot be made to work, some of the technology they have developed for it may be very useful to industry.

    The problem is that science is expensive, and many firms cannot afford development costs. As I have mentioned in the past, governmental seed money is much more useful than prize awards. The government invested most of the £260 cost of the Diamond Light Source, which is proving very useful to many companies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Light_Source

    Off-topic: Can I just say congratulations to Mrs J's sister, who in a few days will get her doctorate from a certain university just a few miles from where I am sitting. She is currently working on some of the many exciting avenues that graphene has opened up.

    Well done! (Even if it does mean that Mrs J wants to get a doctorate, her sister now having beaten her MSc)
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    And Mr Carswell turned a v marginal seat with a winning margin under 1000 to 12000 by stint of his hard work/profile/attitude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Carswell

    It's too complex a subject to reduce it too 'open primaries will fix everything' which despite Mr Carswell's passion for them probably wouldn't have got him elected as an MP at all. Ironic.

    I didn't know this - what a campaigner

    "At the 2001 general election, he was the Conservative candidate at Sedgefield: the constituency of the Prime Minister Tony Blair. Blair's majority fell by 7,500 votes, and Carswell managed to increase the Conservative share of the vote by 3.1% of the electorate.[3] In the months before the 2005 general election, he worked in the Conservative Party's Policy Unit, reporting to David Cameron."

    On the question of independent thinking/speaking of MPs: many people seem to take it for granted that open primaries would lead to (a) more diversity and (b) more independently-minded MPs. However, although this is often said, is there really any evidence for it? Is it not equally possible that you'd end up with rather vacuous MPs selected on populist local issues such as wanting to keep open the local A & E, opposing a local road, or promising pork-barrel local projects?

    I don't know the answer to this question, but I do think we haven't got enough experience of open primaries to form a sensible view on this. One Sarah Wollaston doesn't make a statistically-valid sample; on the other side of the coin, you could argue that some of the most independently-minded MPs can afford to be independently-minded precisely because they are effectively impregnable in very safe seats: think Dennis Skinner, Frank Field, Peter Bone, Ken Clarke, David Davis, etc.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    "Ronald Macdonald, Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University, said the comparison with the Isle of Man indicated that the Scottish Government had “rather lost the plot in terms of the currency debate”.

    He added: “The Isle of Man is clearly a much smaller and differently structured economy than that of Scotland and to suggest that just because sterlingisation works well there means it would work well in Scotland is without empirical foundation.”"

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/415308/Alex-Salmond-loses-plot-with-Manx-economy-plan

    "Without empirical foundation". Trans "daft".
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    I mean, honestly, seriously, I just can't believe this - is he 14?


    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones842m
    Well done everyone: #iloveournhs right at the top of UK trends. A slap in the face for all who want to destroy it.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,009
    antifrank said:

    The employment figures are very good. In particular, it's good to see that the over-65s are participating more in the workforce: they're going to need to in increasing numbers for the foreseeable future.


    Both my parents are pensioners that work, I think they would go mad at home all day, and 65 is such an out of date age as a cut off point in the 21st century anyhow
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,009

    I mean, honestly, seriously, I just can't believe this - is he 14?


    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones842m
    Well done everyone: #iloveournhs right at the top of UK trends. A slap in the face for all who want to destroy it.

    The more publicity this twat gets, the bigger the 4/1 about an outright Tory win in 2015 looks
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    I mean, honestly, seriously, I just can't believe this - is he 14?


    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones842m
    Well done everyone: #iloveournhs right at the top of UK trends. A slap in the face for all who want to destroy it.

    Twitter campaigns have their uses, trust me.

    However, I think this person is an idiot.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    More employment stats in key battle grounds.

    CCHQ Press Office @RicHolden
    North-West England: #Unemployment DOWN. #Employment UP. #Unemployment rate DOWN from 9.5% to 7.8%. 62,000 MORE in work... (year-on-year)

    Yorkshire & Humber: 3 months #Unemployment DOWN 4,000. #Employment UP 13,000. Year-on-year #Unemployment DOWN 13,000. #Employment UP 59,000

    Also on employment:

    "Although youth unemployment was down by 20,000, the number of long-term jobless rose.

    About 915,000 people have been out of work for more than a year, an increase of 32,000 and the highest total since 1996.

    Just over 460,000 people have been jobless for more than two years, the highest figure since 1997

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23340165

    Are we getting to the hard core of "unemployed and unemployable" due to their lack of skill sets and lack of education? Or is the increase to due reclassification from Incapacity Benefit?



  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited July 2013

    Hols at home!

    "Shares in travel companies have fallen due to fears that the UK heatwave will lead to a sharp drop in the number of people booking last-minute foreign holidays."

    http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2007309&c=setreg&region=2

    Great.

    Cue the inevitable spate of posts from tim about Osborne blaming something or other on too much sunshine.

  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    "It is often said that NHS is the nearest thing we have to a religion in the UK."

    True at the moment. However I am only 50ish and in my lifetime we have hanged people for murder, imprisoned them for being gay, lawfully excluded people from jobs and rentals for being black or Irish or female, treated birth out of wedlock as the greatest stigma imaginable, and had smoking carriages on the tube. All utterly unthinkable now. If changes in social attitude of that magnitude have happened there is no reason why NHS fetishism shouldn't go the same way. Perhaps Crosby is a genius who can see a generational shift coming.

    The fetishism remains incomprehensible to me. An example: if you read the travel pages of a newspaper you will find as often as not advice to take the little white card which gets you the equivalent of the NHS in any other European country. Secondly you will be advised to get health insurance as well because you can't expect to be flown home in an ambulance at the expense of an NHS equivalent. But what you don't see is a warning not to rely on the white card at all because Johnny Foreigner's system is not fit to lick the boots of the dear old NHS back in Blightie. Why not?
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Agreed - but 'a slap in the face for all who want to destroy it' for a trending tweet?

    I wonder what a knee in the privates equivalent is - a protest letter published in the Eastbourne Echo?
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013

    I mean, honestly, seriously, I just can't believe this - is he 14?


    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones842m
    Well done everyone: #iloveournhs right at the top of UK trends. A slap in the face for all who want to destroy it.

    Everytime Owen Jones appears in the media = I applaud - that he was born in 1984 but still retains his love of the 70s and 80s Loony Left is perfection. I was born in 1966 and therefore can't really comment on experiencing life in the 50s or 60s. If only Mr Jones did the same. He appears to have been brought up on Yosser Hughes and Billy Elliott.

    I can't resist mentioning his R5 interview with Dotun when promoting his Chavs book - he sincerely believed that Thatcher and therefore the Middle-Class made chavs dress in shell-suits et al because they'd hogged all the nice fashion styles for themselves [ergo this showed how grasping and selfish Tories are].

    It was hilarious. I only wish the intv had been on BBC1 not R5 at 0330 one morning.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Hols at home!

    "Shares in travel companies have fallen due to fears that the UK heatwave will lead to a sharp drop in the number of people booking last-minute foreign holidays."

    http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2007309&c=setreg&region=2

    Great.

    When can we expect a post from tim about Osborne blaming something or other on too much sunshine?

    Not any time soon ;)
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    Faisal Islam tweets : "Chote: North Sea Oil receipts to fall from 0.4% of GDP to 0.03% by 2040. One for Alex Salmond?"
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    "Ronald Macdonald, Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University, said the comparison with the Isle of Man indicated that the Scottish Government had “rather lost the plot in terms of the currency debate”.

    He added: “The Isle of Man is clearly a much smaller and differently structured economy than that of Scotland and to suggest that just because sterlingisation works well there means it would work well in Scotland is without empirical foundation.”"

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/415308/Alex-Salmond-loses-plot-with-Manx-economy-plan

    "Without empirical foundation". Trans "daft".

    When Ronald Macdonald won't back your economic policies, how long until Mickey Mouse also throws in the towel ?
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited July 2013
    MG..You have obviously missed a lot..Got any policies you want to debate or are you happy just to sling insults in a Southerly direction..Hey ho, nothing changes
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    Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Scott_P said:

    The NHS (administrators, PFI contractors, lawyers, managers and Unions) are safe in Labours hands. Patients, not so much...

    Precisely.

    Andy "Mascara" Eichmann was no good for patients, but he sure kept the staff happy.

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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @JohnO

    'Unemployment down by 57,000
    tim in a foul mood (again)

    Yesterday: Labour's NHS record gets trashed
    To-day:Big fall in unemployment.
    Tomorrow:More about Ed's date nights?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MaxPB said:

    I mean, honestly, seriously, I just can't believe this - is he 14?


    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones842m
    Well done everyone: #iloveournhs right at the top of UK trends. A slap in the face for all who want to destroy it.

    Twitter campaigns have their uses, trust me.

    However, I think this person is an idiot.
    I think the phrase is "circle jerk"
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @isam My father retired just before his 65th birthday after working just shy of 50 years as a printer. Three weeks later he de-retired into a delivery job with almost zero responsibility and the opportunity to spend all day talking with new people, and smoking secret cigarettes without having to pretend to my mother that he's "going for a walk".

    If he were to retire again in the near future, I think he would drive my mother mad.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    More employment stats in key battle grounds.

    CCHQ Press Office @RicHolden
    North-West England: #Unemployment DOWN. #Employment UP. #Unemployment rate DOWN from 9.5% to 7.8%. 62,000 MORE in work... (year-on-year)

    Yorkshire & Humber: 3 months #Unemployment DOWN 4,000. #Employment UP 13,000. Year-on-year #Unemployment DOWN 13,000. #Employment UP 59,000

    Also on employment:

    "Although youth unemployment was down by 20,000, the number of long-term jobless rose.

    About 915,000 people have been out of work for more than a year, an increase of 32,000 and the highest total since 1996.

    Just over 460,000 people have been jobless for more than two years, the highest figure since 1997

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23340165

    Are we getting to the hard core of "unemployed and unemployable" due to their lack of skill sets and lack of education? Or is the increase to due reclassification from Incapacity Benefit?



    I asked ITVLaura this earlier, no reply so far - I suspect this is the case that ATOS has pushed IB claimants over the line and only the hardcore are left or those with criminal records et al and CRBs are holding them back.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL

    "Ronald Macdonald, Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University, said the comparison with the Isle of Man indicated that the Scottish Government had “rather lost the plot in terms of the currency debate”.

    He added: “The Isle of Man is clearly a much smaller and differently structured economy than that of Scotland and to suggest that just because sterlingisation works well there means it would work well in Scotland is without empirical foundation.”"

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/415308/Alex-Salmond-loses-plot-with-Manx-economy-plan

    "Without empirical foundation". Trans "daft".

    When Ronald Macdonald won't back your economic policies, how long until Mickey Mouse also throws in the towel ?
This discussion has been closed.