Didn't Saudi Arabia attempt to tell us who we should send as ambassador a few years ago? And didn't we, quite rightly, tell them diplomatically to F off?
There's a difference between saying "you choice of ambassador is hurting our relations. We suggest you change him," and "We want *this* guy."
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.
It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.
Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
I agree - a four year Saturnalia is more accurately a Freak Show. But the American public wanted the old order stood on its head. That is what Trump offered. It is Bread and Circuses, with some doubt whether the bread will ever arrive, but no doubt about the circus being camped on the White House lawn.
No, the American public wanted Clinton. Trump was not their first choice.
Didn't Saudi Arabia attempt to tell us who we should send as ambassador a few years ago? And didn't we, quite rightly, tell them diplomatically to F off?
There's a difference between saying "you choice of ambassador is hurting our relations. We suggest you change him," and "We want *this* guy."
I think after objecting to our choice, they attempted to tell us who would be acceptable. And we said, non.
Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.
Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
Hear, hear.
The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.
Totally agree with both of you. My early optimism about Trump post-election have evaporated. I see no reason to think that he'll take the US or the world in a good direction.
Didn't Saudi Arabia attempt to tell us who we should send as ambassador a few years ago? And didn't we, quite rightly, tell them diplomatically to F off?
There's a difference between saying "you choice of ambassador is hurting our relations. We suggest you change him," and "We want *this* guy."
I think after objecting to our choice, they attempted to tell us who would be acceptable. And we said, non.
I didn't know that. But that's still different from what Trump's done.
It's also worth noting the impact of a Farage appointment on negotiations with the EU over Brexit. Not exactly the best mood music.
It doesn't really matter how smoothly the negotiations with the EU go over Brexit. Two years after A50 is invoked, the UK will be thrown out of the EU with no substantive agreement in place and no extension to negotiations, due to the veto of one or more of the remaining EU states. I voted no, notwithstanding my expectation that it would be a very hard Brexit. It is in the EU's interest to make Brexit as painful as possible for the UK. The UK's only possible European ally post Brexit may have to be Russia.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.
It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.
Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
And not even the whole horse, just the nether region.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.
It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.
Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
I agree - a four year Saturnalia is more accurately a Freak Show. But the American public wanted the old order stood on its head. That is what Trump offered. It is Bread and Circuses, with some doubt whether the bread will ever arrive, but no doubt about the circus being camped on the White House lawn.
No, the American public wanted Clinton. Trump was not their first choice.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
But is Trump of the right or just an American nationalist? Remember Trump not only beat Hillary, he humiliated the Republican establishment.
I think Trump is a Reactionary, in that all he does is to provoke a reaction. He is the Lord of Misrule. The Abbot of Unreason. Appointed to preside over the Feast of Fools, with the power to command anyone to do anything.
It is Roman Saturnalia, when the ordinary rules of life were subverted as masters served their slaves, and the offices of state were held by slaves.
I think Saturnalia was just over a week, not four years.
Caligula appointing his horse as Consul is more like it.
I agree - a four year Saturnalia is more accurately a Freak Show. But the American public wanted the old order stood on its head. That is what Trump offered. It is Bread and Circuses, with some doubt whether the bread will ever arrive, but no doubt about the circus being camped on the White House lawn.
No, the American public wanted Clinton. Trump was not their first choice.
I hope no one had money on the North Carolina governorship contest. Looks like the lose is trying shenanigans to end run round the result, and the NC legislature is apparebtly considering a court packing bill to get round the election of a liberal justice their supreme court. Bonkers.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
As far as I can see 'winning the culture wars' seems to be about little more than having free rein to go around insulting and showing a general lack of respect to whichever individuals, groupings or nations are not deemed to be true believing imbibers of the kool aid. None of the headbangers have as yet provided an alternative answer that can't be boiled down thus.
can't they afford briefcases or something? or ...perhaps they did it on purpose?
I'm pretty sure this was deliberate.
That much is fairly obvious. So team trump wants it out there, or kobachs, or both? and why does the WSJ report it as if they can't see it for what it is?
Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.
“It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.
“Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.
“The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...
Farages ego is beginning to exert a measurable gravitational effect. He's working against the national interest by undermining HMG. Maybe HM needs to have a quiet word.
Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.
“It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.
“Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.
“The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...
Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.
Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
Hear, hear.
The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.
It was largely manufactured misrepresentation anyway Southam. It was always about partisanship.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
Agreed. I am baffled at the idea annoying lefties is worth our own brazen dancing to Trump's tune. We need to butter him up that's In our interests now, but just because he will do some things that may be good - everyone does - doesn't mean we need to line up for a bootlicking. We need to retain some dignity, remember the worry about not being Trump's first phone call, we're pathetic sometimes.
Do we really want to start appointing career politicians as ambassadors anyway? Why not go the USA route and sell the posts to campaign contributors, that'd raise some money too. I'd rather have farage in the Lords, frankly, but he really seems like he wants to move to the USA.
Do we really want to start appointing career politicians as ambassadors anyway? Why not go the USA route and sell the posts to campaign contributors, that'd raise some money too.
Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.
Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
Hear, hear.
The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.
It was largely manufactured misrepresentation anyway Southam. It was always about partisanship.
I'm sure the Jewish Labour MP Ruth Smeeth would agree...
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
If the right wing view of the culture wars is that it means the president-elect of the US gets to humiliate the government and the head of state of a close ally then I am not sure that the right will be in the ascendant for as long as you think.
Agreed. I am baffled at the idea annoying lefties is worth our own brazen dancing to Trump's tune. We need to butter him up that's In our interests now, but just because he will do some things that may be good - everyone does - doesn't mean we need to line up for a bootlicking. We need to retain some dignity, remember the worry about not being Trump's first phone call, we're pathetic sometimes.
It would be a good thing for this country if all that special relationship crap went into the bin and never came out. We do have a very close working relationship with the US on security matters and have invested heavily in GCHQ etc to keep that relationship. That is in our national interest and gives us a layer of protection that we otherwise would not have. We will have a common approach to many world issues and may improve our chances of getting our way by working with the US much of the time. But the rest is cringeworthy and frankly beneath us. It is long past time it stopped.
The idea that Trump will be a great friend to the UK is killed with this Tweet. No friend would have sent it. If Farage were any kind of patriot he would immediately disown it.
The only good news from all of this is that Farage's cuddle-up-close to the Donald totally and utterly discredits him as a serious political figure. Not that he was widely seen that way before, of course.
Bedwetting lefty nonsense. Lol.
Nope - fact. If Trump had any regard for this country or its head of state that Tweet would not have been posted. You know it, but you have no problem with it because you are a highly partisan right-winger.
No, I'm just not an effeminate lefty nitwit. Trump is a game changer. He does things differently. The whole western world is changing. The culture wars have turned, finally, in favour of the right. Some of it will be ugly and weird and sad, some of it will be brilliant and wonderful and long overdue.
Rejoice.
Where the authoritarian right -- as opposed to the libertarian right -- is winning is here in good old Blighty. Porn sites are to be blocked -- and perhaps pb too since the betting angle has it classified as an adult site in my ISP's voluntary filter; ISPs are now required to store (and reveal) where you've been; and this morning it is floated that the NHS should demand proof of identity -- which looks like flying a kite for ID cards.
Do we really want to start appointing career politicians as ambassadors anyway? Why not go the USA route and sell the posts to campaign contributors, that'd raise some money too.
What about Paul Boateng.. Happened with him.
I didn't know that. I hope he had some relevant background or I am equally annoyed.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
We aren't. We just don't like the idea from our perspective, and us being British about it is the point.
Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.
Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
Hear, hear.
The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.
It was largely manufactured misrepresentation anyway Southam. It was always about partisanship.
Not for all of us it wasnt. Too many reports of the problem for it to be nothing in both instances.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Mr. JohnL, I'm concerned about how they're going to police such 'adult' sites. If it's rigorous, it means creating a database that would be a hacker's wet dream for the blackmail potential (ok, using PB isn't horrendous but most of the people on the Totally Secure Register would be checking frisky material). If it's not, then it won't work.
Hadn't considered the ID card angle for hospitals. That would be alarming.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Donald Trump scolded media big shots during an off-the-record Trump Tower sitdown on Monday, sources told The Post.
“It was like a f–ing firing squad,” one source said of the encounter.
“Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said.
“The meeting was a total disaster. The TV execs and anchors went in there thinking they would be discussing the access they would get to the Trump administration, but instead they got a Trump-style dressing down,” the source added...
Incidentally I share SO's concerns about Trump's advisors and the views some of them have - on white supremacy, anti-semitism, racism etc. The fact that groups like the KKK are celebrating is not good news and Britain should, for its own self-respect, be careful not to be seen as sharing or endorsing such views. It is no use criticising Corbyn for his repellent views and associations and giving a free pass to Trump.
Realpolitik is fine. We will need to build as good a relationship as we can with the US but we need to be clear - and in public if need be - that we have certain values and that white supremacy, anti-semitism etc are not part of them.
Hear, hear.
The silence of so many right wingers on here and elsewhere about Trump's embrace of white supremacists, when they rightly attacked Corbyn for his tolerance and even embrace of anti-Semitism, is deafening. Turns out those attacks on Corbyn were all about partisanship, not principle.
It was largely manufactured misrepresentation anyway Southam. It was always about partisanship.
Not for all of us it wasnt. Too many reports of the problem for it to be nothing in both instances.
In that case let's all look forward to everybody who joined the indignation train when Corbyn was at its buffers being as vocal and condemnatory about all forms of hate and discrimination.
Isabel Oakeshott One thing is clear: team Trump wants to see the back of Kim Darroch.
This whole mess was entirely preventable and has only occurred due to the stupidity and arrogance of UK politicians and diplomats (virtue signalling in parliament and cosying up to Clinton and ignoring Trump). Still doesn't mean Farage should be given a role.
Does anyone know who the current US ambassador is ?
I certainly don't.
We should not rule it out at this stage. It is both an opportunity and a threat.
I don't see the issue with sacking Darroch. From my limited experience and from talking to others the man is a fool. Wouldn't replace him with Nigel though, I'd send in someone like Soames.
Didn't Saudi Arabia attempt to tell us who we should send as ambassador a few years ago? And didn't we, quite rightly, tell them diplomatically to F off?
Does anyone know who the current US ambassador is ?
I certainly don't.
We should not rule it out at this stage. It is both an opportunity and a threat.
The US ambassador to the UK? That's a Democrat fundraiser and activist called Barzun who bought his way into the job. wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Barzun
Our ambassador to them is a Blairite career EUphilic diplomat with a background in zoology.
This is a great chance to get shot of both of them.
Major case of less majestystupid autocorrect: lese majeste from Donald Trump. Not that he cares about any of that stuff, of course.
As to whether Donald Trump is a friend of the UK. Donald Trump is a friend of Donald Trump. And that's it. Just ask the many people who thought Trump was their friend. Alex Salmond for example. Anyone who who celebrates Trump as the apotheosis of the right had better get another apotheosis or they will be very disappointed.
Major case of less majestystupid autocorrect: lese majeste from Donald Trump. Not that he cares about any of that stuff, of course.
As to whether Donald Trump is a friend of the UK. Donald Trump is a friend of Donald Trump. And that's it. Just ask the many people who thought Trump was their friend. Alex Salmond for example. Anyone who who celebrates Trump as the apotheosis of the right had better get another apotheosis or they will be very disappointed.
Yes, that's pretty much it. Donald is only really interested in Donald. That's why his picks have been quite poor so far.
Do we really want to start appointing career politicians as ambassadors anyway? Why not go the USA route and sell the posts to campaign contributors, that'd raise some money too.
What about Paul Boateng.. Happened with him.
I didn't know that. I hope he had some relevant background or I am equally annoyed. </blockquote He was appointed our British High Commissioner to South Africa in 2005 by Tony Blair.
Isabel Oakeshott One thing is clear: team Trump wants to see the back of Kim Darroch.
This whole mess was entirely preventable and has only occurred due to the stupidity and arrogance of UK politicians and diplomats (virtue signalling in parliament and cosying up to Clinton and ignoring Trump). Still doesn't mean Farage should be given a role.
Some of Trumps advisers, esp. Bannon, are very hostile towards the Tories and favourable to UKIP. They will be quite happy to destabilise the Tory leadership as much as possible as part of some global reallignment of the right towards Tea Partyism.
I don't think this mess wasn't preventable, no matter how nice we were to Trump, since the divide is ideological.
I hope no one had money on the North Carolina governorship contest. Looks like the lose is trying shenanigans to end run round the result, and the NC legislature is apparebtly considering a court packing bill to get round the election of a liberal justice their supreme court. Bonkers.
I've just been reading about that; an absolutely astonishing story.
If the Government hadn't dismissed out of hand the possibility of Farage having some form of go-between role, I doubt this would have happened. I agree that he is totally unsuited to being ambassador. But that doesn't mean his warm relations with Trump should he wasted.
So it's the UK government's fault!?
Nigel Farage is an opposition politician! Would David Cameron have appointed Ed Miliband as US ambassador?
Unlikely, but if you read my post that wasn't my recommendation. Would he have appointed an opposition politician in an informal role if they had a special connection with the area? Absolutely, and he's done so before.
Isabel Oakeshott One thing is clear: team Trump wants to see the back of Kim Darroch.
This whole mess was entirely preventable and has only occurred due to the stupidity and arrogance of UK politicians and diplomats (virtue signalling in parliament and cosying up to Clinton and ignoring Trump). Still doesn't mean Farage should be given a role.
Some of Trumps advisers, esp. Bannon, are very hostile towards the Tories and favourable to UKIP. They will be quite happy to destabilise the Tory leadership as much as possible as part of some global reallignment of the right towards Tea Partyism.
I don't think this mess wasn't preventable, no matter how nice we were to Trump, since the divide is ideological.
Yup. They love the Tories in the same way they love the GOP establishment. May needs to be robust. This insult should not be tolerated.
@bbclaurak: Govt sources say May's 'cliff edge' comment was not an intentional hint at a transitional Brexit deal
@cpmcgonagle: "The Prime Minister was offering a personal opinion and was not speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister..." twitter.com/bbclaurak/stat…
Cluster...
One has great sympathy for Mrs May. It must be hard work trying to run HMG, whilst at the same time dealing with the pile of shite left by her incompetent predecessor and deal with Osborne's treacherous rearguard action from behind his own lines.
Does anyone know who the current US ambassador is ?
I certainly don't.
We should not rule it out at this stage. It is both an opportunity and a threat.
The US ambassador to the UK? That's a Democrat fundraiser and activist called Barzun who bought his way into the job. wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Barzun
Our ambassador to them is a Blairite career EUphilic diplomat with a background in zoology.
This is a great chance to get shot of both of them.
I see Darroch has his CMG and KCMG. Perhaps he could be bought off by giving him his GCMG?
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Paints Britain in a very weak light.
The British establishment is in a weak light.
They went all-in on a Clinton win and lost.
Its hardly surprising Trump wants a less hostile British ambassador.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Paints Britain in a very weak light.
The British establishment is in a weak light.
They went all-in on a Clinton win and lost.
Its hardly surprising Trump wants a less hostile British ambassador.
What exactly has the British Ambassador done that could be considered as hostile? – Sir Kim Darroch was appointed as ambassador to the US on 20 Aug 2015, long before either Trump or Clinton were selected as party nominees and appears to have said very little about either. - Genuine question btw.
Major case of less majestystupid autocorrect: lese majeste from Donald Trump. Not that he cares about any of that stuff, of course.
As to whether Donald Trump is a friend of the UK. Donald Trump is a friend of Donald Trump. And that's it. Just ask the many people who thought Trump was their friend. Alex Salmond for example. Anyone who who celebrates Trump as the apotheosis of the right had better get another apotheosis or they will be very disappointed.
Yes, that's pretty much it. Donald is only really interested in Donald. That's why his picks have been quite poor so far.
Hang on .. Salmond decided to fall out with Trump not the other way around. It was a falling out of convenience because he was getting so Much bad publicity.
The 'many people are saying' device is what Trump uses when he wants to provoke while not personally associating himself with the contents, like with birtherism or Ted Cruz's father.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
If the Government hadn't dismissed out of hand the possibility of Farage having some form of go-between role, I doubt this would have happened. I agree that he is totally unsuited to being ambassador. But that doesn't mean his warm relations with Trump should he wasted.
So it's the UK government's fault!?
Nigel Farage is an opposition politician! Would David Cameron have appointed Ed Miliband as US ambassador?
Unlikely, but if you read my post that wasn't my recommendation. Would he have appointed an opposition politician in an informal role if they had a special connection with the area? Absolutely, and he's done so before.
Well I don't know what kind of informal role you have in mind but I think it's probabaly unprecedented to appoint the leader of an opposition party to basically anything like this.
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Paints Britain in a very weak light.
The British establishment is in a weak light.
They went all-in on a Clinton win and lost.
(Snip)
Evidence, please.
Do you really think that the British establishment wanted Trump to win ?
We're all acting very British here, and Trump's acting all American. It may go down well in the USA. They still expect us to be stiff and follow form. They pride themselves on not doing that.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
Trump says extreme things, not expecting them to happen but to get the subject on the table. He wants us to sack our current ambassador and replace him with someone more to his liking. He'll get his way too, I reckon. Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Paints Britain in a very weak light.
The British establishment is in a weak light.
They went all-in on a Clinton win and lost.
(Snip)
Evidence, please.
Do you really think that the British establishment wanted Trump to win ?
Possibly not. But that's a very different thing to what you said above.
So I guess the answer is no: you don't have any evidence.
Does anyone know who the current US ambassador is ?
I certainly don't.
We should not rule it out at this stage. It is both an opportunity and a threat.
The US ambassador to the UK? That's a Democrat fundraiser and activist called Barzun who bought his way into the job. wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Barzun
Our ambassador to them is a Blairite career EUphilic diplomat with a background in zoology.
This is a great chance to get shot of both of them.
Do we now need Trump's permission to get rid of our own ambassadors? Nothing stopping us getting rid of the current ambassador if we want to.
If Theresa May really wants to tell Trump to do one, she should sack the current ambassador and replace him with anyone but Farage
The real question is would the EU delivering an enforced hard Brexit bring in the law of unintended consequences? Could a hard Brexit in fact encourage others to leave rather than stop them?
If it is a soft Brexit, others may look, shrug and say not worth the effort and pain to be in a place that is EU lite.
If it is a hard Brexit then any other leavers will find a willing party with the 5th largest economy in the world on the doorstep willing to make a quick trade deal. Other members may look and say, UK is there, they will be a friend, they have survived OK, so there is no fear in leaving.
Unintended consequences are often obvious if you look for them. I could see circumstances where an enforced hard Brexit would be fulfilling the criteria and thus result in speeding up the loss of other members from the EU.
Comments
One thing is clear: team Trump wants to see the back of Kim Darroch.
His direct video message is just a taste of things to come.
https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/800968433710075904
It doesn't make for comfortable reading.
The other is now President Elect.
"That Farage guy gets things done," may well be Trump's meaning. "That's why we get on."
Don't mistake everything Trump does as the act of a buffoon.
https://www.gov.uk/government/people/kim-darroch
I imagine Putin wouldn't be sorry to see him go either.
F1: Malaysia's next race will be their last.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38061412
A reasonable circuit, especially for a recent addition. Far rather lose Azerbaijan, though. Or Monaco.
https://twitter.com/samkalidi/status/800844608053735425
Which is nice...
Farage was just a gambling chip for Trump.
Hadn't considered the ID card angle for hospitals. That would be alarming.
I certainly don't.
We should not rule it out at this stage. It is both an opportunity and a threat.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-ambassador-simon-collis-to-saudi-arabia-completes-hajj-pilgrimmage-after-converting-to-islam-a7309491.html
This was dutifully fawned over by Islamist journalists paid for using our taxes:
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=id&u=http://www.bbc.com/indonesia/majalah/2016/09/160915_majalah_inggris_naikhaji&prev=search
We really told those interfering Saudis, eh?
That's a Democrat fundraiser and activist called Barzun who bought his way into the job.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Barzun
Our ambassador to them is a Blairite career EUphilic diplomat with a background in zoology.
This is a great chance to get shot of both of them.
@bbclaurak: Govt sources say May's 'cliff edge' comment was not an intentional hint at a transitional Brexit deal
@cpmcgonagle: "The Prime Minister was offering a personal opinion and was not speaking on behalf of the Prime Minister..." twitter.com/bbclaurak/stat…
Cluster...
less majestystupid autocorrect: lese majeste from Donald Trump. Not that he cares about any of that stuff, of course.As to whether Donald Trump is a friend of the UK. Donald Trump is a friend of Donald Trump. And that's it. Just ask the many people who thought Trump was their friend. Alex Salmond for example. Anyone who who celebrates Trump as the apotheosis of the right had better get another apotheosis or they will be very disappointed.
I don't think this mess wasn't preventable, no matter how nice we were to Trump, since the divide is ideological.
They went all-in on a Clinton win and lost.
Its hardly surprising Trump wants a less hostile British ambassador.
Much bad publicity.
I'm sure the EU would have been happy to tell him just quite how awful they're going to have to be, and for him to write it.
Unfortunately also POTUS.
@montie: Lovin' the Ukippers who welcome Trump's Tweet; I'm sure they'd react the same if Juncker had proposed Clegg be UK Ambassador to Brussels
So I guess the answer is no: you don't have any evidence.
Another US tech giant has announced a major UK expansion https://t.co/AbBe8aoOPx via @CityAM
If Theresa May really wants to tell Trump to do one, she should sack the current ambassador and replace him with anyone but Farage
You can also add in another set: the people who criticised the judges over A50.
It's sovereignty, but not as we know it ...
We put all our eggs in the Clinton basket... And lost! Time to suck it up.
If it is a soft Brexit, others may look, shrug and say not worth the effort and pain to be in a place that is EU lite.
If it is a hard Brexit then any other leavers will find a willing party with the 5th largest economy in the world on the doorstep willing to make a quick trade deal. Other members may look and say, UK is there, they will be a friend, they have survived OK, so there is no fear in leaving.
Unintended consequences are often obvious if you look for them. I could see circumstances where an enforced hard Brexit would be fulfilling the criteria and thus result in speeding up the loss of other members from the EU.