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  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    MTimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think it means it looks a lot like the solution you and I are looking for, EEA/EFTA plus benefits restrictions at home to deter unskilled migrants and get the raw numbers down.
    Question out of my own ignorance - what would that mean for our ability to negotiate our own trade deals?
    Depends on the customs union, if we're out then it will be a green light. If not then we're chained to the corpse of the EU's trade policy. I think we will end up using the Swiss double customs structure for re-exported goods.
  • On the polling, this tells us nothing more than the general public have given the thumbs down on Jeremy Corbyn.

    On other matters, clearly the Prime Minister has decided that she is after all going to give a running commentary. Yet another u turn, the same day as she u turns on the compositions of boards. This lady, it seems, is for turning.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited November 2016
    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    "Their girl" was only ever keeping the seat warm until "The Man" George Osborne takes over.

    TM takes us to a "half way" fudge between "in and out" then Osborne takes over and takes us back in as full members (with the Euro and the European army as added attractions)

    The strategy is as clear as day.

    If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.
  • taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    You're not seriously saying you'd want Leadsom as Prime Minister? Surely.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.''

    Everything coming from May and number 10 today is an exercise in total vacillation and bet hedging.

    Even the 'transitional brexit' is 'one option' according to number 10, FFS. Even that's not been decided.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    Is there a politician who isn't interested in their own career?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.
    It was actually the man from the CBI who talked about cliff edges and Theresa May said something in response along the lines of "Of course we don't want cliff edges". From that people deduce a policy where we effectively remain in the EU for the time being.
    People are seeing what they wish to see in the PM's remarks.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    You're not seriously saying you'd want Leadsom as Prime Minister?

    Did anybody on here want Trump?

    And yet here he is!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,923
    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    "Their girl" was only ever keeping the seat warm until "The Man" George Osborne takes over.

    TM takes us to a "half way" fudge between "in and out" then Osborne takes over and takes us back in as full members (with the Euro and the European army as added attractions)

    The strategy is as clear as day.

    If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.
    I'll do you a deal: at the start of every year, you pay me £1,000 if we're not in the EU, the Euro and the European army. If we are in those three, I'll pay you £100,000.

    If you are confident, I am offering you a staggeringly good deal.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    "Their girl" was only ever keeping the seat warm until "The Man" George Osborne takes over.

    TM takes us to a "half way" fudge between "in and out" then Osborne takes over and takes us back in as full members (with the Euro and the European army as added attractions)

    The strategy is as clear as day.

    If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.
    I'll do you a deal: at the start of every year, you pay me £1,000 if we're not in the EU, the Euro and the European army. If we are in those three, I'll pay you £100,000.

    If you are confident, I am offering you a staggeringly good deal.
    If the £1000 per year is only payable once we're out of the EU it's staggeringly good indeed. :)
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    taffys said:

    You're not seriously saying you'd want Leadsom as Prime Minister?

    Did anybody on here want Trump?

    And yet here he is!

    I wanted Trump and I'm very happy with the result.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,923

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    "Their girl" was only ever keeping the seat warm until "The Man" George Osborne takes over.

    TM takes us to a "half way" fudge between "in and out" then Osborne takes over and takes us back in as full members (with the Euro and the European army as added attractions)

    The strategy is as clear as day.

    If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.
    I'll do you a deal: at the start of every year, you pay me £1,000 if we're not in the EU, the Euro and the European army. If we are in those three, I'll pay you £100,000.

    If you are confident, I am offering you a staggeringly good deal.
    If the £1000 per year is only payable once we're out of the EU it's staggeringly good indeed. :)
    Nah, I want it every January 1st. :) It'd be a core part of my retirement income.
  • Theresa May doesn't necessarily get to choose whether Britain leaves by a cliff edge or not. She might get offered the choice of one by the rest of the EU and be asked to go jump if she so wishes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    ''This lady, it seems, is for turning. ''

    Well duh...May has zero principles other than her own career. Leadsom would have been the 'Trump' candidate.

    But the May rampers on here like TSE wanted their girl. A girl they have subsequently turned their backs on big time.

    "Their girl" was only ever keeping the seat warm until "The Man" George Osborne takes over.

    TM takes us to a "half way" fudge between "in and out" then Osborne takes over and takes us back in as full members (with the Euro and the European army as added attractions)

    The strategy is as clear as day.

    If voters want to put a stop to it they'll have to switch to UKIP.
    I'll do you a deal: at the start of every year, you pay me £1,000 if we're not in the EU, the Euro and the European army. If we are in those three, I'll pay you £100,000.

    If you are confident, I am offering you a staggeringly good deal.
    Soz I'll have to decline.

    A. I don't have £1000 to give you if I'm wrong (which I could easily be)

    B. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen in the coming years.

    I think the establishment have a game plan, which is roughly as outlined (maybe not the Euro and the army but they clearly dream of Osborne taking over and returning us back to the EU table in due course) but there are far too many unknowns to say where we'll be in 6 months, nevermind several years hence.
  • This might stir up some emotions. Leavers, steel yourselves:

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/800677981270093825
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,422
    MaxPB said:

    MTimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think it means it looks a lot like the solution you and I are looking for, EEA/EFTA plus benefits restrictions at home to deter unskilled migrants and get the raw numbers down.
    Question out of my own ignorance - what would that mean for our ability to negotiate our own trade deals?
    Depends on the customs union, if we're out then it will be a green light. If not then we're chained to the corpse of the EU's trade policy. I think we will end up using the Swiss double customs structure for re-exported goods.
    Turkey, which is in a customs union with the EU has its own trade deals with third parties. I think we are restricted to EU agreed tariffs on the goods the union agreement covers. These are usually quite low anyway. Anything else is negotiable, I think.
  • Theresa May doesn't necessarily get to choose whether Britain leaves by a cliff edge or not. She might get offered the choice of one by the rest of the EU and be asked to go jump if she so wishes.

    Whatever happens, the Brexiteers will deny any responsibility.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''This might stir up some emotions. Leavers, steel yourselves:''

    I don;t mind this as it reveals the key remainer assertion (ie that we had sovereignty already and all we had to do was push the red button marked Article 50) was a complete lie.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    The markets seem to have taken May's comment as a hint about the broader nature of Brexit - any hint that the Tory hard-Brexit nutters will be kept in their box always seems to send the £ shooting up - but from the position in her speech I am taking them as referring specifically to the issue of EU workers - where some sort of transitional arrangement was always inevitable given the huge numbers of expats we have in other EU countries.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    My stock broker has just emailed me with a black Friday sales deal.

    This has gone too far.
  • dr_spyn said:

    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640

    Another one bites the dust.
    It looks like if they can't lead it the leave it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
  • Has any former party leader quit their party quicker after standing down than the 47 days that Diane James took? Ramsay MacDonald was expelled.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893

    dr_spyn said:

    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640

    Another one bites the dust.
    It looks like if they can't lead it the leave it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
    Yet Neil Hamilton isn't going anywhere.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909
    taffys said:

    ''This might stir up some emotions. Leavers, steel yourselves:''

    I don;t mind this as it reveals the key remainer assertion (ie that we had sovereignty already and all we had to do was push the red button marked Article 50) was a complete lie.

    Not really. Even if the tangled web of legal dependencies ultimately scuppered Brexit, that would only be because Westminster was unwilling to prioritise leaving the EU above other concerns. For example if the Supreme Court judges that as currently constituted, Hollyrood would need to agree to an Article 50 declaration, that's not to say that Westminster doesn't have the power to change that state of affairs if they were able and willing to pay the political price.

    It all comes down to how deep the public support for Brexit is. Pushing through all of the prerequisites to Brexit may be more than the country is willing to bear.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,923
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MTimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think it means it looks a lot like the solution you and I are looking for, EEA/EFTA plus benefits restrictions at home to deter unskilled migrants and get the raw numbers down.
    Question out of my own ignorance - what would that mean for our ability to negotiate our own trade deals?
    Depends on the customs union, if we're out then it will be a green light. If not then we're chained to the corpse of the EU's trade policy. I think we will end up using the Swiss double customs structure for re-exported goods.
    Turkey, which is in a customs union with the EU has its own trade deals with third parties. I think we are restricted to EU agreed tariffs on the goods the union agreement covers. These are usually quite low anyway. Anything else is negotiable, I think.
    Does it?
  • In case anyone else missed this great graphical introduction to the clusterf*** that was POTUS polling and predictions:

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/whoops-media-pollsters-get-election-wrong/
  • Artist said:

    dr_spyn said:

    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640

    Another one bites the dust.
    It looks like if they can't lead it the leave it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
    Yet Neil Hamilton isn't going anywhere.
    All he has to do is wait long enough and all the other potential leaders will have self destructed and left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909
    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MTimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think it means it looks a lot like the solution you and I are looking for, EEA/EFTA plus benefits restrictions at home to deter unskilled migrants and get the raw numbers down.
    Question out of my own ignorance - what would that mean for our ability to negotiate our own trade deals?
    Depends on the customs union, if we're out then it will be a green light. If not then we're chained to the corpse of the EU's trade policy. I think we will end up using the Swiss double customs structure for re-exported goods.
    Turkey, which is in a customs union with the EU has its own trade deals with third parties. I think we are restricted to EU agreed tariffs on the goods the union agreement covers. These are usually quite low anyway. Anything else is negotiable, I think.
    Does it?
    Yes. It's in a customs union with the EU, not the EU customs union itself.

    http://yoikk.gov.tr/upload/idb/ftascompatibilitymode.pdf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,923

    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MTimT said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think it means it looks a lot like the solution you and I are looking for, EEA/EFTA plus benefits restrictions at home to deter unskilled migrants and get the raw numbers down.
    Question out of my own ignorance - what would that mean for our ability to negotiate our own trade deals?
    Depends on the customs union, if we're out then it will be a green light. If not then we're chained to the corpse of the EU's trade policy. I think we will end up using the Swiss double customs structure for re-exported goods.
    Turkey, which is in a customs union with the EU has its own trade deals with third parties. I think we are restricted to EU agreed tariffs on the goods the union agreement covers. These are usually quite low anyway. Anything else is negotiable, I think.
    Does it?
    Yes. It's in a customs union with the EU, not the EU customs union itself.

    http://yoikk.gov.tr/upload/idb/ftascompatibilitymode.pdf
    You're right.
  • dr_spyn said:

    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640

    Another one bites the dust.
    It looks like if they can't lead it the leave it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
    Last one out please turn off the lights
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909

    dr_spyn said:

    UKIP if you want to, the lady's had enough.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/800733515281264640

    Another one bites the dust.
    It looks like if they can't lead it the leave it.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37682828
    Last one out please turn off the lights
    Isn't it 'punch out the lights' in their case?
  • taffys said:

    You're not seriously saying you'd want Leadsom as Prime Minister?

    Did anybody on here want Trump?

    And yet here he is!

    Yes, some on here did want Trump and Brexit and Leadsome.
    Hard to believe, isn't it?
  • I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.

    Brilliant!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    edited November 2016

    In case anyone else missed this great graphical introduction to the clusterf*** that was POTUS polling and predictions:

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/whoops-media-pollsters-get-election-wrong/

    538 was better than that article makes out.

    Also New Hampshire is DEMOCRAT.
  • Alistair said:

    My stock broker has just emailed me with a black Friday sales deal.

    This has gone too far.

    Black list then black ball your stockbroker.
  • As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.
  • I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.

    Brilliant!
    Now all we have to do is identify which are the Blockers, which are the Diggers and which are the Bombers.
  • Mr. Meeks, that's rather good.

    But beware. The worm may turn. And unleash a supersheep.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited November 2016
    Incidentally I find the reaction of the financial markets to the various Brexit smoke-signals utterly perplexing. It's hardly a state secret that the UK wants the most advantageous deal it can get. Theresa May repeating that is not news, so it shouldn't affect the markets at all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    Incidentally I find the reaction of the financial markets to the various Brexit smoke-signals utterly perplexing. It's hardly a state secret that the UK wants the most advantageous deal it can get. Theresa May repeating that is not news, so it shouldn't affect the markets at all.

    The markets are worried that a big slice of the Tory Party is interested more in ideology than in Britain's best economic interest.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Alistair said:

    My stock broker has just emailed me with a black Friday sales deal.

    This has gone too far.

    30% off share prices? While stocks last....
  • Incidentally I find the reaction of the financial markets to the various Brexit smoke-signals utterly perplexing. It's hardly a state secret that the UK wants the most advantageous deal it can get. Theresa May repeating that is not news, so it shouldn't affect the markets at all.

    Markets do not handle political risk very well.

    There's probably money it in somewhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Great news about Fabric, one of the last remaining superclubs and the venue for many happy memories in times gone by...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.

    Brilliant!
    Now all we have to do is identify which are the Blockers, which are the Diggers and which are the Bombers.
    There are more difficult challenges! The blockers are obviously the LibDems and SNP. The diggers are Labour, forever endeavouring to make their hole to hide in deeper and bigger. The Bombers are the nutters on the backbenchers (plus a few in Cabinet) behind her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited November 2016

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Or perhaps the 10th story....dozens killed in suicide bombing...but BBC hard-on for Fabric nightclub trumps that of course. I am sure it is of reasonable interest for inclusion in the London sub-section, but for the rest of the country I doubt they give a monkeys that a London club that has had terrible trouble with drugs got a second chance.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Good evening, Mr Dancer.

    Are you referring to London-centric values, by any chance?

    If the flooding was in the London area, it would be top story.

    If the nightclub was in Plymouth, it wouldn't make the national news at all.

    But that's life.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,591

    Alistair said:

    My stock broker has just emailed me with a black Friday sales deal.

    This has gone too far.

    30% off share prices? While stocks last....
    Very good! Can I get a £10k basket of FTSE250 at 30% discount please?
  • I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.

    Brilliant!
    Now all we have to do is identify which are the Blockers, which are the Diggers and which are the Bombers.
    As George Osborne put it, a year and an eternity ago: We Are The Builders.
  • Miss JGP, good evening.

    And I quite agree.

    Somerset was underwater for a fortnight and it was a lower tier story. But when the Thames valley was threatened, it suddenly became terribly important.
  • AnneJGP said:

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Good evening, Mr Dancer.

    Are you referring to London-centric values, by any chance?

    If the flooding was in the London area, it would be top story.

    If the nightclub was in Plymouth, it wouldn't make the national news at all.

    But that's life.
    Whining media types are unlikely to score drugs and sex in Devon nightclubs.
  • *cough*40%offKingdomAsunderuntil2December*cough*

    [I am trying not to overdo it, but you're not making it easy].
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Floods at #1, Fabric #7 now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    Pulpstar said:

    Floods at #1, Fabric #7 now.

    The power of PB.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    This might stir up some emotions. Leavers, steel yourselves:

    https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/800677981270093825

    Nope just reinforces why the UK should leave the EU.
  • I'm far from convinced that it would be harder to get sex and drugs in provincial nightclubs rather than Fabric. But others would be more qualified to advise.

    Like it or not (personally I couldn't give two hoots), Fabric is seen as being near or at the pinnacle of Britain's club scene. Closing it was big news and reopening it is big news.

    In football terms it's as if Old Trafford had been closed down. I'm sure that would have got a lot of coverage too.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    *cough*40%offKingdomAsunderuntil2December*cough*

    [I am trying not to overdo it, but you're not making it easy].

    Is there a betting market on your Amazon ranking?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654

    I'm far from convinced that it would be harder to get sex and drugs in provincial nightclubs rather than Fabric. But others would be more qualified to advise.

    Like it or not (personally I couldn't give two hoots), Fabric is seen as being near or at the pinnacle of Britain's club scene. Closing it was big news and reopening it is big news.

    In football terms it's as if Old Trafford had been closed down. I'm sure that would have got a lot of coverage too.

    Jilly's Rockworld Manchester (Closing) & the Eddie's No 8 fire in Birmingham much bigger news :)
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    jcesmond said:

    AnneJGP said:

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Good evening, Mr Dancer.

    Are you referring to London-centric values, by any chance?

    If the flooding was in the London area, it would be top story.

    If the nightclub was in Plymouth, it wouldn't make the national news at all.

    But that's life.
    Whining media types are unlikely to score drugs and sex in Devon nightclubs.
    IIUC the drugs & sex are there but it's a long way to travel if you're London-based.
  • Mr. Rex, no, but those making such bets should consider that sales rankings will be very different at this time of year (for the same sales numbers) compared to earlier, because more stuff gets bought in the weeks leading up to, and just after, Christmas.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Someone feed the government hamsters,

    Intrastat website down.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Even more infighting than the Left. If most of UKIP are ex-Tories, whatever happened to their 'secret weapon', i.e., loyalty?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.
  • How many of the 105 UKIP MPs have quit mind you...
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Even more infighting than the Left. If most of UKIP are ex-Tories, whatever happened to their 'secret weapon', i.e., loyalty?
    Well, if they are ex-tories, then doesn't that question sort of answer itself?
  • MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    eh?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    eh?
    Indeed.
  • The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.
  • MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    Sounds a bit racalist....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,909

    The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    May as the Ayn lady?
  • pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    This is at the nub of the negotiations. At what point will the UK walk away and just let the A50 2 years run out? I can't see anything so far which would be a tell for Barnier and the rest of that motley crew.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155

    The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    Wanting to avoid something doesn't mean you won't do it if pushed.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.

    If you buy one do you get one of those free racist mugs chucked in (and I don't mean Dianne Abbot)?
  • The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    Given time a pissed off electorate will reward those in Westminster who think they know better by voting in a Trump like figure and their acolytes. The warning signs are there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited November 2016
    The extent of his backtracking on policies is up there with Trump....

    http://order-order.com/2016/11/21/shameless-sadiqs-post-truth-politics/
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,148
    Pulpstar said:

    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.

    If you receive goods in return for a donation, can you still Gift-Aid the donation? I don't see why they don't just sell their products.
  • pbr2013 said:

    The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    This is at the nub of the negotiations. At what point will the UK walk away and just let the A50 2 years run out? I can't see anything so far which would be a tell for Barnier and the rest of that motley crew.
    It is the nub of it but it's where we disagree. First the secret indemnity to Nissan then May's cliff edge speech. Negotiations are based on credible threats. To be able to credibly threaten to walk away we need to #1 actually be able to walk away. #2 Be able to have the possibility of us walking away hanging over private sector investment for 2 years 9 months. The government's positioning today suggests they know the UK isn't in a position to withstand at least #2 and possibly #1 as well.

    This both helps ( our opponents won't think we are bluffing ) and hinders ( our opponents know we can't afford to walk away ) our negotiations.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,385

    Miss JGP, good evening.

    And I quite agree.

    Somerset was underwater for a fortnight and it was a lower tier story. But when the Thames valley was threatened, it suddenly became terribly important.

    IIRC, and correct me if I am wrong, a total of about 30 houses were flooded in the Somerset levels, whilst the Thames valley floods around that time in the high 100s/low 1000s. Somerset was exceptional mainly in its acreage (not even so much in transport disruption). I figured at the time that it was Somerset that got disproportionate attention.

    But there are always biases, in the 2007 (Northern) floods, at least 2/3rds of the houses flooded (around 18k - again IIRC) were in Hull, but Sheffield got the vast bulk of the attention.
  • AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.

    If you receive goods in return for a donation, can you still Gift-Aid the donation? I don't see why they don't just sell their products.
    Presumably if its sold they may need to charge VAT and other taxes on the sale, whereas if its a donation its tax free and possibly gets Gift Aid on top.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    Well quite, he's promising to do what the Democrats have been saying they'll do but have never done (because if these people were better-off they wouldn't vote Democrat). Look at Labour tying themselves in knots over the Nissan deal.

    Of course I do wonder how much of his infrastructure plan he can get past the Republicans, and realistically how much it will help the people who voted for him.

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    GIN1138 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sterling is absolutely surging today, I just can't figure out why. If anyone has an explanation beyond short covering I'd be very interested to know.

    TM said she's going to negotiate a "transitional" Brexit which the markets are probably interpreting as we're going to REMAIN?
    That was the call from a couple of the big IBs this morning.
    I think with May's comment about avoiding a 'cliff edge' her Brexit strategy has become clear. She's playing a game of Lemmings where her job is to create obstacles for the herd of Brexiteers to prevent them committing suicide as she surreptitiously guides them towards a safe place.
    We shall see whether the "Lemmings" switch en mass to UKIP at the next election. In the current mood the establishment is playing a very dangerous game with the voters.
    UKIP
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,923
    edited November 2016
    MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    I had lunch today with a US economist who brought the text of a Steve Bannon speech with him. Said speech was all about the evils of deficit spending.

    The other issue said economist had with the infrastructure plan was that almost all infrastructure spend, outside federal highways, came from the states, cities, etc, which makes things very tricky.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    The first time in years I can't bear to click through on these headlines. If May means to avoid a Cliff Edge that man's there is a Cliff Edge to avoid. " Transitional " to what ? And if it's so good why would we want to slow it down ? And why do we have to interpret these smoke signals ? Why isn't seminal sociology economic policy being discussed openly ?

    And if we need " transitional " arrangements to avoid a " Cliff Edge " isn't that an enormous advert to our 27 negotiating partners that we don't want to walk away to WTO terms if we can avoid it ?

    And if the 27 know that what price will they extract ? The only upside to the fiasco is at least one the europhobes own it. The liberal Atlas has shrugged.

    The cliff edge here affects both negotiating parties.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,784
    AnneJGP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.

    If you receive goods in return for a donation, can you still Gift-Aid the donation? I don't see why they don't just sell their products.
    Strictly speaking you should pay for the 'value' of the product, and gift-aid the additional above that. Clearly this is open to abuse about what the true 'value' is - and whilst I would argue that a Labour Calendar is worthless (and thus the whole amount is gift-aid able) it would be mildly amusing to see Labour themselves make that argument...
  • As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Or perhaps the 10th story....dozens killed in suicide bombing...but BBC hard-on for Fabric nightclub trumps that of course. I am sure it is of reasonable interest for inclusion in the London sub-section, but for the rest of the country I doubt they give a monkeys that a London club that has had terrible trouble with drugs got a second chance.
    I fear pretty much all of the country doesn't give a monkey's about a non-European suicide bombing either.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,416

    MaxPB said:

    A few liberal friends from my fb feed are now calling Trump's infrastructure plan a trap and want to campaign to make sure blacks don't accept jobs related to any of the associated projects.

    Well quite, he's promising to do what the Democrats have been saying they'll do but have never done (because if these people were better-off they wouldn't vote Democrat). Look at Labour tying themselves in knots over the Nissan deal.

    Of course I do wonder how much of his infrastructure plan he can get past the Republicans, and realistically how much it will help the people who voted for him.

    Republicans only care about the deficit when theyre not in power... As long as there are plenty of tax cuts (predominantly for the wealthy) in there too... Trump will get his infrastructure spending.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,155
    Except that argument would suggest that the royal prerogative itself is not legal in Scotland.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Pulpstar said:

    Hi,

    Tomorrow is the FINAL DAY to get your hands on Labour's very limited edition 2017 Calendar.

    We think they make a perfect Christmas present for any Labour supporter, and if you know they'll look great in your house - make sure you don't miss out!

    Remember, donate £9 for a wall or a desk calendar, or you can get both by donating just £15. Pick your favourite below.

    If you buy one do you get one of those free racist mugs chucked in (and I don't mean Dianne Abbot)?
    No but you get loads of hypocrites regards educating their children. Labour is full of them.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    As an aside (I'm procrastinating), compare the 2nd and 4th top stories on the BBC's front page currently.

    Second - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38054598/fabric-agrees-new-licensing-deal-with-islington-council-to-reopen

    Fourth - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38049907

    Seems a bit odd to me, but there we are.

    Or perhaps the 10th story....dozens killed in suicide bombing...but BBC hard-on for Fabric nightclub trumps that of course. I am sure it is of reasonable interest for inclusion in the London sub-section, but for the rest of the country I doubt they give a monkeys that a London club that has had terrible trouble with drugs got a second chance.
    Fabric was a decent club about 7 years ago. Sadly it went the way of Glastonbury, Warehouse Project, Shoreditch, etc.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited November 2016
    New thread.
This discussion has been closed.