Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
On topic: Having canvassed over a hundred households face to face (and more on the phone) I'm sticking with my estimate that the chance of a LibDem victory is about 33% (2/1 against or 3s on Betfair). About the same chance as Trump had. Sarah probably won't win but it is entirely possible she will.
My reading is that the tactical vote from Lab and Green is solid - which halves the 23,000 majority. The key is how many Tory voters will switch to LibDem (some definitely will because of Brexit - no idea how many) and how many Tories will sit this one out and not vote (an unnecessary by-election, only vote Tory etc). I just don't know. I doubt anyone does.
I believe that voters who want change have more energy to vote than those who are content with the status quo. (Some evidence: EU ref, Trump, Obama).
Brexit is now the status quo -"a done deal". Not much energy to go out to defend it. But lots of energy by Remainers to oppose it.
Thx Mr Barnesian, very useful report from the ground. I'm sticking with a few quid on Zac, but it does sound like there's a reasonable chance of a surprise here.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
The government is in a very difficult position, and we all should have a degree of sympathy.
Those who fought against putting the government in such a position should have sympathy. Those who fought for it should feel a degree of guilt.
Could not agree more with you.....
signing up to Lisbon via the back door after the biggest EU con so far under the guise of a simple "tidying up exercise" just was appalling. As was all the promised referendums over the years that were evaded, avoided or simply just lied about. They should all hang their collective heads in eternal shame because they and they alone placed us here, where we are today.
It is. But there is a balance. Having lower CT than almost every single one of our competitors has not led to higher wages or increased R&D spend.
We are also in the process of cutting services and incomes for the lowest paid and the JAMs. Who needs more attention now? Them or those who use CT cuts to increase dividends and to boost boardroom salaries?
Salaries are paid pre-tax, so the rate of corporation tax isn't terribly relevant to their level, whether it be the salaries of workers or the board. Yes, cutting CT allows increased dividends to be paid, which is the entire idea. If you want to attract and encourage investment, reducing taxes on it is a good idea. That way the investment is attracted here rather than eleswhere.
Meanwhile the lowest paid are being given a stonking payrise, thanks to a Conservative Chancellor. It is, as you rightly say, a balance, and as the results show Osborne balanced it well. We'll see on Wednesday what Phillip Hammond does, but he hasn't got much room for manoeuvre to do things very differently.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
The lowest paid just got a huge pay rise and are set for more until 2019. If someone chooses to work part time and sees their income go down to to tax credit withdrawal they have no one to blame but themselves.
Yes, if someone "chooses" to work part-time you might have a point. How many do?
Quite a lot. I have the report, give me a minute.
Edit: 86.5% have chosen part time work. 13.5% who are working part time want to work full time. Out of 8.5m part time workers.
In other words, around a million people who want to work full-time can't. That's a lot of people.
And they have even more incentive to take on more hours if wages continue rising. The majority of complaints come from the 6.5m who have chosen part time work and do exactly 16h to receive the maximum possible tax credits and benefits. I'd venture that the million or so who want to work full time probably don't stick to the hard 16h limit for tax credits.
Samsung's annus horribilis continues, 4 confirmed reports of Galaxy S7 and S7 Edge phones exploding in the US. Samsung investigating, but a little birdie told me that the S7 had switched battery supplier from Murata and Panasonic to Samsung SDI after there was so much spare capacity left from the cancellation of the Note 7. If that's true then the management are stupider than I expected.
That's incredible if true. Nokia's 'burning platform' had nothing on that kind of stupidity.
Why does May keep running these ideas that simply seem to fall over after a while. There's not even any particular ideological bias/kite flying direction (Grammar schools right, workers on boards, left) to them.
Because she is a very poor PM who is completely out of her depth.
bullshit. She has been only in office a month or two.. I'll bet you wouldn't have been saying that after (YOUR.. not my ) sainted Blair nearly had to go over the Ecclestone affair.
Your mindset now seems that because there really is nothing left to bitch about Corbyn, the only thing you can bitch about is the Govt and especially Mrs May.Its very boring and you are in danger of being repetitive..
She needs time as all new PM's do. They grow into the job.
I tend to read PB from bottom to top, so quite often read most of a post before seeing the author. It's fascinating how often you can predict the author from tone and defensiveness, and who is the subject of their defensiveness.
A 'month or two', or even four.
It seems a lot longer than four months for we Cameroons.
The Cameroon is an extinct pointless politico that was endemic to the island of UK east of Europe next to the Atlantic Ocean and North Sea. The Cameroon's closest genetic relative was the also extinct Harold Macmillanus and Rabid Butler.
On topic: Having canvassed over a hundred households face to face (and more on the phone) I'm sticking with my estimate that the chance of a LibDem victory is about 33% (2/1 against or 3s on Betfair). About the same chance as Trump had. Sarah probably won't win but it is entirely possible she will.
My reading is that the tactical vote from Lab and Green is solid - which halves the 23,000 majority. The key is how many Tory voters will switch to LibDem (some definitely will because of Brexit - no idea how many) and how many Tories will sit this one out and not vote (an unnecessary by-election, only vote Tory etc). I just don't know. I doubt anyone does.
I believe that voters who want change have more energy to vote than those who are content with the status quo. (Some evidence: EU ref, Trump, Obama).
Brexit is now the status quo -"a done deal". Not much energy to go out to defend it. But lots of energy by Remainers to oppose it.
Thx Mr Barnesian, very useful report from the ground. I'm sticking with a few quid on Zac, but it does sound like there's a reasonable chance of a surprise here.
It's anybody's guess since there's no recent polls. I would have thought that the LibDem recovery hasn't progressed far enough for them to win, but who knows.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Corbyn and McDonnell support tax cuts for the best off, hard Brexit and open immigration. They are also pro-Putin and anti-NATO. How does that help the working class, of whatever colour?
Jeremy Corbyn has never needed a Labour government or had cause to fear a Tory one. It shows.
One for the fantasists who believe the UK has a negotiating position with the EU member states over defence: twitter.com/kennycarwash/status/800648765963169792
You're seriously quoting commentary on Royal Navy capabilities from someone with the twitter handle @kennycarwash?
Why does May keep running these ideas that simply seem to fall over after a while. There's not even any particular ideological bias/kite flying direction (Grammar schools right, workers on boards, left) to them.
Because she is a very poor PM who is completely out of her depth.
bullshit. She has been only in office a month or two.. I'll bet you wouldn't have been saying that after (YOUR.. not my ) sainted Blair nearly had to go over the Ecclestone affair.
Your mindset now seems that because there really is nothing left to bitch about Corbyn, the only thing you can bitch about is the Govt and especially Mrs May.Its very boring and you are in danger of being repetitive..
She needs time as all new PM's do. They grow into the job.
I tend to read PB from bottom to top, so quite often read most of a post before seeing the author. It's fascinating how often you can predict the author from tone and defensiveness, and who is the subject of their defensiveness.
A 'month or two', or even four.
It seems a lot longer than four months for we Cameroons.
The Cameroon is an extinct pointless politico that was endemic to the island of UK east of Europe next to the Atlantic Ocean and North Sea. The Cameroon's closest genetic relative was the also extinct Harold Macmillanus and Rabid Butler.
Surely the closest genetic relative was the Blairite ?
Theresa May today gave her strongest hint yet that she will seek a transitional deal for the City when Britain leaves the EU when she said she wants to avoid a “cliff edge”.
It is. But there is a balance. Having lower CT than almost every single one of our competitors has not led to higher wages or increased R&D spend.
We are also in the process of cutting services and incomes for the lowest paid and the JAMs. Who needs more attention now? Them or those who use CT cuts to increase dividends and to boost boardroom salaries?
Salaries are paid pre-tax, so the rate of corporation tax isn't terribly relevant to their level, whether it be the salaries of workers or the board. Yes, cutting CT allows increased dividends to be paid, which is the entire idea. If you want to attract and encourage investment, reducing taxes on it is a good idea. That way the investment is attracted here rather than eleswhere.
Meanwhile the lowest paid are being given a stonking payrise, thanks to a Conservative Chancellor. It is, as you rightly say, a balance, and as the results show Osborne balanced it well. We'll see on Wednesday what Phillip Hammond does, but he hasn't got much room for manoeuvre to do things very differently.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
The lowest paid just got a huge pay rise and are set for more until 2019. If someone chooses to work part time and sees their income go down to to tax credit withdrawal they have no one to blame but themselves.
Yes, if someone "chooses" to work part-time you might have a point. How many do?
Quite a lot. I have the report, give me a minute.
Edit: 86.5% have chosen part time work. 13.5% who are working part time want to work full time. Out of 8.5m part time workers.
In other words, around a million people who want to work full-time can't. That's a lot of people.
And they have even more incentive to take on more hours if wages continue rising. The majority of complaints come from the 6.5m who have chosen part time work and do exactly 16h to receive the maximum possible tax credits and benefits. I'd venture that the million or so who want to work full time probably don't stick to the hard 16h limit for tax credits.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
I don't have skin in that game but have to say Benn has made himself a target. In the USA a primary would be seen as a healthy thing. We should have them here instead of jobs for life in safe seats.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
We were talking about the effect of corporation tax rates on salaries. As I correctly pointed out, the wages of the lowest-paid are increasing substantially at the same time that corporation tax is being slightly reduced.
Now you seem to be switching to talking about benefits and public services. That's a different point altogether, even if it were true.
Nope, it's all inter-related. If you cut CT you have to make up the difference elsewhere by cutting public spending in one way or another.
Erm....no. If you reduce one flow of cash out of a company (CT) then that cash remains in the company. When it then leaves to go to staff, shareholders or bondholders you tax the cashflow transaction. A zero CT rate wouldn't imply a reduction in tax take - it would just be coming in as a different tax.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
We were talking about the effect of corporation tax rates on salaries. As I correctly pointed out, the wages of the lowest-paid are increasing substantially at the same time that corporation tax is being slightly reduced.
Now you seem to be switching to talking about benefits and public services. That's a different point altogether, even if it were true.
Nope, it's all inter-related. If you cut CT you have to make up the difference elsewhere by cutting public spending in one way or another.
Erm....no. If you reduce one flow of cash out of a company (CT) then that cash remains in the company. When it then leaves to go to staff, shareholders or bondholders you tax the cashflow transaction. A zero CT rate wouldn't imply a reduction in tax take - it would just be coming in as a different tax.
...Unless the cash is used to pay down debt, increase liquid assets or help finance an acquisition. I understand the attractions of your model but I think it is too simplistic.
One for the fantasists who believe the UK has a negotiating position with the EU member states over defence: twitter.com/kennycarwash/status/800648765963169792
You're seriously quoting commentary on Royal Navy capabilities from someone with the twitter handle @kennycarwash?
Nope.
That's a bit of luck, because by pasting that tweet with a supporting comment it certainly looked to the naked eye like you were. Which would have made you an idiot. Thank Heavens it isn't so.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
One for the fantasists who believe the UK has a negotiating position with the EU member states over defence: twitter.com/kennycarwash/status/800648765963169792
You're seriously quoting commentary on Royal Navy capabilities from someone with the twitter handle @kennycarwash?
Nope.
That's a bit of luck, because by pasting that tweet with a supporting comment it certainly looked to the naked eye like you were. Which would have made you an idiot. Thank Heavens it isn't so.
I am sorry that the depleted nature of our armed forces does not suit your arguments about the UK having the EU over a barrel on defence. But there you go. We are where we are.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
One for the fantasists who believe the UK has a negotiating position with the EU member states over defence: twitter.com/kennycarwash/status/800648765963169792
You're seriously quoting commentary on Royal Navy capabilities from someone with the twitter handle @kennycarwash?
Nope.
That's a bit of luck, because by pasting that tweet with a supporting comment it certainly looked to the naked eye like you were. Which would have made you an idiot. Thank Heavens it isn't so.
I am sorry that the depleted nature of our armed forces does not suit your arguments about the UK having the EU over a barrel on defence. But there you go. We are where we are.
I didn't know that I was arguing any such point or from any particular direction, so ta muchly for letting me know.
One for the fantasists who believe the UK has a negotiating position with the EU member states over defence: twitter.com/kennycarwash/status/800648765963169792
You're seriously quoting commentary on Royal Navy capabilities from someone with the twitter handle @kennycarwash?
Nope.
That's a bit of luck, because by pasting that tweet with a supporting comment it certainly looked to the naked eye like you were. Which would have made you an idiot. Thank Heavens it isn't so.
I am sorry that the depleted nature of our armed forces does not suit your arguments about the UK having the EU over a barrel on defence. But there you go. We are where we are.
I didn't know that I was arguing any such point or from any particular direction, so ta muchly for letting me know.
It is. But there is a balance. Having lower CT than almost every single one of our competitors has not led to higher wages or increased R&D spend.
We are also in the process of cutting services and incomes for the lowest paid and the JAMs. Who needs more attention now? Them or those who use CT cuts to increase dividends and to boost boardroom salaries?
Salaries are paid pre-tax, so the rate of corporation tax isn't terribly relevant to their level, whether it be the salaries of workers or the board. Yes, cutting CT allows increased dividends to be paid, which is the entire idea. If you want to attract and encourage investment, reducing taxes on it is a good idea. That way the investment is attracted here rather than eleswhere.
Meanwhile the lowest paid are being given a stonking payrise, thanks to a Conservative Chancellor. It is, as you rightly say, a balance, and as the results show Osborne balanced it well. We'll see on Wednesday what Phillip Hammond does, but he hasn't got much room for manoeuvre to do things very differently.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
The lowest paid just got a huge pay rise and are set for more until 2019. If someone chooses to work part time and sees their income go down to to tax credit withdrawal they have no one to blame but themselves.
This. But that doesn't fit with SO's oft posted chart....
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Don't be grumpy. It's an incredibly exciting weekend. The final race of the 2016 F1 season, and my book Kingdom Asunder (which you should buy, because it's splendid) comes out [can be pre-ordered now].
It is. But there is a balance. Having lower CT than almost every single one of our competitors has not led to higher wages or increased R&D spend.
We are also in the process of cutting services and incomes for the lowest paid and the JAMs. Who needs more attention now? Them or those who use CT cuts to increase dividends and to boost boardroom salaries?
Salaries are paid pre-tax, so the rate of corporation tax isn't terribly relevant to their level, whether it be the salaries of workers or the board. Yes, cutting CT allows increased dividends to be paid, which is the entire idea. If you want to attract and encourage investment, reducing taxes on it is a good idea. That way the investment is attracted here rather than eleswhere.
Meanwhile the lowest paid are being given a stonking payrise, thanks to a Conservative Chancellor. It is, as you rightly say, a balance, and as the results show Osborne balanced it well. We'll see on Wednesday what Phillip Hammond does, but he hasn't got much room for manoeuvre to do things very differently.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
The lowest paid just got a huge pay rise and are set for more until 2019. If someone chooses to work part time and sees their income go down to to tax credit withdrawal they have no one to blame but themselves.
This. But that doesn't fit with SO's oft posted chart....
No, the facts are a tad problematic for those who insist that the lowest paid have done well out of the last six years.
Why does May keep running these ideas that simply seem to fall over after a while. There's not even any particular ideological bias/kite flying direction (Grammar schools right, workers on boards, left) to them.
Because she is a very poor PM who is completely out of her depth.
bullshit. She has been only in office a month or two.. I'll bet you wouldn't have been saying that after (YOUR.. not my ) sainted Blair nearly had to go over the Ecclestone affair.
Your mindset now seems that because there really is nothing left to bitch about Corbyn, the only thing you can bitch about is the Govt and especially Mrs May.Its very boring and you are in danger of being repetitive..
She needs time as all new PM's do. They grow into the job.
I tend to browse PB from bottom to top, so quite often read most of a post before seeing the author. It's fascinating how often you can predict the author from tone and defensiveness, and who is the subject of their defensiveness.
A 'month or two', or even four.
Funny you know, I can usually do the same for those slagging off the PM..
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
No, the facts are a tad problematic for those who insist that the lowest paid have done well out of the last six years.
Not at all. Quite apart from anything else, you seem to have totally forgotten the 5 million unemployed figure which the left warned about, or hoped for, as Osborne took measures to reduce the completely unsustainable deficit he inherited.
As you rightly said earlier, it's all about balance. What balance would you have preferred? Would you have preferred higher unemployment, with higher benefits and perhaps with higher wages for those low-paid workers lucky enough to keep their jobs?
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
It is. But there is a balance. Having lower CT than almost every single one of our competitors has not led to higher wages or increased R&D spend.
We are also in the process of cutting services and incomes for the lowest paid and the JAMs. Who needs more attention now? Them or those who use CT cuts to increase dividends and to boost boardroom salaries?
Salaries are paid pre-tax, so the rate of corporation tax isn't terribly relevant to their level, whether it be the salaries of workers or the board. Yes, cutting CT allows increased dividends to be paid, which is the entire idea. If you want to attract and encourage investment, reducing taxes on it is a good idea. That way the investment is attracted here rather than eleswhere.
Meanwhile the lowest paid are being given a stonking payrise, thanks to a Conservative Chancellor. It is, as you rightly say, a balance, and as the results show Osborne balanced it well. We'll see on Wednesday what Phillip Hammond does, but he hasn't got much room for manoeuvre to do things very differently.
The lowest paid are actually seeing their incomes cut significantly, along with the services they rely on.
Salaries are paid pre-tax, they are set post-tax.
The lowest paid just got a huge pay rise and are set for more until 2019. If someone chooses to work part time and sees their income go down to to tax credit withdrawal they have no one to blame but themselves.
This. But that doesn't fit with SO's oft posted chart....
Trump absolubtely romped home with those that would have been in UK terms just above the various thresholds for benefits.
Its the 20-50k PAYE army that determines elections.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
Phenomena I am sure have nothing whatever to do with free migration. Ahem.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
No, the facts are a tad problematic for those who insist that the lowest paid have done well out of the last six years.
Not at all. Quite apart from anything else, you seem to have totally forgotten the 5 million unemployed figure which the left warned about, or hoped for, as Osborne took measures to reduce the completely unsustainable deficit he inherited.
As you rightly said earlier, it's all about balance. What balance would you have preferred? Would you have preferred higher unemployment, with higher benefits and perhaps with higher wages for those low-paid workers lucky enough to keep their jobs?
No, I would have preferred for the best off to have made a greater contribution to reducing the deficit. I would also have preferred it if artificial and unnecessary deadlines for eliminating the deficit had not been set.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
"In economics, stagflation, a portmanteau of stagnation and inflation, is a situation in which the inflation rate is high, the economic growth rate slows, and unemployment remains steadily high." I think you mean stagnation.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
Phenomena I am sure have nothing whatever to do with free migration. Ahem.
Although you then have to deal with the fact that has been wage stagnation in almost every developed world country*, irrespective of migration levels, which tells you that it can't be the whole story.
Except Germany, Canada and Australia - the latter two of which were big beneficiaries of the 15 year commodity boom to 2015.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
Phenomena I am sure have nothing whatever to do with free migration. Ahem.
Although you then have to deal with the fact that has been wage stagnation in almost every developed world country*, irrespective of migration levels, which tells you that it can't be the whole story.
Except Germany, Canada and Australia - the latter two of which were big beneficiaries of the 15 year commodity boom to 2015.
Germany has seen high levels of immigration for many years.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
If tax rates are cut, along with public spending and there is not a significant rise in salaries, then many millions of people will lose out.
Which is why the government are forcing through inflation busting pay rises up to £9/h. I just think they have a lot more headroom.
Even with that rise, the overall effect is negative - and not just for those on the lowest incomes. Further tax and spending cuts will only exacerbate the situation.
''Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences. ''
I think Mr SO is wrestling with what amounts to a one off global event. The fact is that 2bn people have effectively entered the global capitalist economy since 1989, greatly increasing the supply of very cheap unskilled (and in some cases skilled) workers.
With the best will in the world, that was always going to depress wages.
There is evidence that the slack is starting to run out.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Which is why wage rises for the bottom are being forced though by the state. I think £12.50, elimination of employer's NI, lowering corporation tax to 12.5% for small companies and 15% for large companies along with ending all in working benefits and tax credits is the direction we should take. A one of resettlement between businesses, workers and the government. Overall no one really wins or loses but workers will be in control of their own income rather than being reliant on the generosity of the state.
If tax rates are cut, along with public spending and there is not a significant rise in salaries, then many millions of people will lose out.
Which is why the government are forcing through inflation busting pay rises up to £9/h. I just think they have a lot more headroom.
Even with that rise, the overall effect is negative - and not just for those on the lowest incomes. Further tax and spending cuts will only exacerbate the situation.
It's impossible to say that at the moment. You're prejudging the situation based on your own prejudice, the new higher NLW has definitely had an effect of raising the wages of the lowest paid, possibly at the expense of the highest paid but we'll have to wait until the HMRC report to confirm that.
''No, I would have preferred for the best off to have made a greater contribution to reducing the deficit.''
That never happens. We;ve spent two decades trying to get the rich to cough up more. Nothing seems to work. They just get richer and they seem to have no concept of paying a little more to retain their gilded lives or face revolution.
I'm sure they will be, especially in a growing economy benefiting from higher wages and spending. It's odd that I'm having to argue the virtuous pay circle with a leftist, but the EU referendum has made for strange bedfellows. One of your lefty remain lot was calling higher wages an economic cost for business rather than an economic gain for workers recently. How times change.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences.
Phenomena I am sure have nothing whatever to do with free migration. Ahem.
Although you then have to deal with the fact that has been wage stagnation in almost every developed world country*, irrespective of migration levels, which tells you that it can't be the whole story.
Except Germany, Canada and Australia - the latter two of which were big beneficiaries of the 15 year commodity boom to 2015.
The only part of the globe that's been immune to the effects of globalisation is North Korea. Free trade has as much effect on wages as immigration.
The economy has been growing for a while now. It has not yet fed through to higher wages in any meaningful way. Now we are at just about full employment, let's hope that it begins to. Of course, with inflation set to rise it is going to become an even bigger issue. Much will depend on the kind of Brexit deal we end up with.
If tax rates are cut, along with public spending and there is not a significant rise in salaries, then many millions of people will lose out.
Which is why the government are forcing through inflation busting pay rises up to £9/h. I just think they have a lot more headroom.
Even with that rise, the overall effect is negative - and not just for those on the lowest incomes. Further tax and spending cuts will only exacerbate the situation.
It's impossible to say that at the moment. You're prejudging the situation based on your own prejudice, the new higher NLW has definitely had an effect of raising the wages of the lowest paid, possibly at the expense of the highest paid but we'll have to wait until the HMRC report to confirm that.
We all prejudge based on our beliefs and experiences. You are doing it just as much as me. That's the point of debate and discussion, isn't it?
I don't see much evidence from the past to show me that cutting taxes and reducing public spending ends up benefiting those on low and medium incomes over the longer term. For me any successful future has to involve significant long-term wealth redistribution and an activist state. I am sure you look at similar things and see something completely different. It's an honest disagreement taking place in the centre ground. I rather like that.
''Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences. ''
I think Mr SO is wrestling with what amounts to a one off global event. The fact is that 2bn people have effectively entered the global capitalist economy since 1989, greatly increasing the supply of very cheap unskilled (and in some cases skilled) workers.
With the best will in the world, that was always going to depress wages.
There is evidence that the slack is starting to run out.
Some evidence to that effect but there are still 2bn more people available. The issue is more why western governments have done little ease the transition but instead like Blair Brown and Cameron adopted corporatist policies which made the transition even harder.
Is that the sixth or the seventh time that a PB Brexiteer has mentioned this? The nation rejoices as employment & resources black spot gets much needed good news.
I see my previous comment didn't make the cut, so I will try again
My most sincere and deepest apologies that I don't sit here all day on PB reading all the threads. I happen to be working unlike you obviously.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
I wonder what his dad would have thought? That's the real issue here is the connection to the WC. One could perhaps understand the Tories being seen to be like that ......but Labour?
It really all started with Blair, cocktail circuits and smooth city slicker style government without the financial finesse and acumen to go with it.
Blair has a lot to answer for including to his own party and Brown was the proverbial kiddie in a sweet shop.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
Yep. But if we don't - what is Labour going to do about it?
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
Yep. But if we don't - what is Labour going to do about it?
No doubt you will delight at Labour's woes. But be careful what you wish for. I suspect your joy will be short lived if Labour does not recover. You will dislike what replaces it even more.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
Yep. But if we don't - what is Labour going to do about it?
No doubt you will delight at Labour's woes. But be careful what you wish for. I suspect your joy will be short lived if Labour does not recover. You will dislike what replaces it even more.
I am truly bemused as to what will replace Labour.
''Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences. ''
I think Mr SO is wrestling with what amounts to a one off global event. The fact is that 2bn people have effectively entered the global capitalist economy since 1989, greatly increasing the supply of very cheap unskilled (and in some cases skilled) workers.
With the best will in the world, that was always going to depress wages.
There is evidence that the slack is starting to run out.
Some evidence to that effect but there are still 2bn more people available. The issue is more why western governments have done little ease the transition but instead like Blair Brown and Cameron adopted corporatist policies which made the transition even harder.
Disagree with this. Blair, Brown and Cameron ignored the plight of those left behind by globalisation, but didn't make the transition harder. Brexit makes it harder. A lot harder.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
Yep. But if we don't - what is Labour going to do about it?
No doubt you will delight at Labour's woes. But be careful what you wish for. I suspect your joy will be short lived if Labour does not recover. You will dislike what replaces it even more.
I am truly bemused as to what will replace Labour.
Probably the Tories will drift left and a new right wing party will emerge. Arguably the former has already happened.
''Wage stagflation has been the norm for 2 decades. Brexit is simply one of the consequences. ''
I think Mr SO is wrestling with what amounts to a one off global event. The fact is that 2bn people have effectively entered the global capitalist economy since 1989, greatly increasing the supply of very cheap unskilled (and in some cases skilled) workers.
With the best will in the world, that was always going to depress wages.
There is evidence that the slack is starting to run out.
Some evidence to that effect but there are still 2bn more people available. The issue is more why western governments have done little ease the transition but instead like Blair Brown and Cameron adopted corporatist policies which made the transition even harder.
Disagree with this. Blair, Brown and Cameron ignored the plight of those left behind by globalisation, but didn't make the transition harder. Brexit makes it harder. A lot harder.
The "Third wayers" forced the pace in the UK and didnt leave much time for adaption. Whether Brexit works or not remains to be seen, but it does at least give the chance to try something different.
Blimey. I could have written that in 10 minutes. It's a string of truisms and some rather patronising wishful thinking about the noob needing guidance from an old friend. Maybe things were better when MI6 was run by the KGB.
Advance notice: On Friday evening there is a meeting of Leeds Central CLP GC. Let's see if the new masters raise the issue of deselection. McDonnell is egging them on...
If they deselect Hilary Benn that would be clearest signal yet, Labour are finished. What shits.
If Labour are finished it is due to the likes of Hilary Benn whose only association with the WWC is when he sends them to their deaths by supporting another war.
Nope. It's because you (and others) say this sort of shit.
I love the smell of red-on-red in the morning. It smells like....victory.....
Yep, the right owns it all. Now it's time to deliver on the promises.
Yep. But if we don't - what is Labour going to do about it?
No doubt you will delight at Labour's woes. But be careful what you wish for. I suspect your joy will be short lived if Labour does not recover. You will dislike what replaces it even more.
I am truly bemused as to what will replace Labour.
Blimey. I could have written that in 10 minutes. It's a string of truisms and some rather patronising wishful thinking about the noob needing guidance from an old friend. Maybe things were better when MI6 was run by the KGB.
The British establishment won't endear themselves by treating Trump as an orangutan who needs their help to be accepted in polite company.
I had assumed Fillon would go through easily next weekend, but after reading in this article that "42% mostly voted for Sarkozy does not win", I began to get concerned about the large red figure I had against Juppe on Betfair.
Presumably most of thoise voting to stop Sarkozy will have voted for Fillon yesterday as Juppe was regarded as favourite to go through anyway. Question is, how many of that 42% will bother to vote next weekend now they do not have the incentive of voting to stop Sarkozy and how many of those will give their votes to Juppe now that the "stop Sarkozy" job has been done.
Think this is going to be closer than the first round might indicate.
Blimey. I could have written that in 10 minutes. It's a string of truisms and some rather patronising wishful thinking about the noob needing guidance from an old friend. Maybe things were better when MI6 was run by the KGB.
The British establishment won't endear themselves by treating Trump as an orangutan who needs their help to be accepted in polite company.
Comments
signing up to Lisbon via the back door after the biggest EU con so far under the guise of a simple "tidying up exercise" just was appalling. As was all the promised referendums over the years that were evaded, avoided or simply just lied about. They should all hang their collective heads in eternal shame because they and they alone placed us here, where we are today.
Jeremy Corbyn has never needed a Labour government or had cause to fear a Tory one. It shows.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-hints-at-brexit-city-deal-to-avoid-cliff-edge-a3400661.html
As you rightly said earlier, it's all about balance. What balance would you have preferred? Would you have preferred higher unemployment, with higher benefits and perhaps with higher wages for those low-paid workers lucky enough to keep their jobs?
Its the 20-50k PAYE army that determines elections.
http://policyinpractice.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/OP-NOTE-Cumulative-impact-of-Welfare-Reforms-to-2020-Policy-in-Practice-1.pdf
If tax rates are cut, along with public spending and there is not a significant rise in salaries, then many millions of people will lose out.
Why? Do businesses vote?
I think you mean stagnation.
Except Germany, Canada and Australia - the latter two of which were big beneficiaries of the 15 year commodity boom to 2015.
I think Mr SO is wrestling with what amounts to a one off global event. The fact is that 2bn people have effectively entered the global capitalist economy since 1989, greatly increasing the supply of very cheap unskilled (and in some cases skilled) workers.
With the best will in the world, that was always going to depress wages.
There is evidence that the slack is starting to run out.
That never happens. We;ve spent two decades trying to get the rich to cough up more. Nothing seems to work. They just get richer and they seem to have no concept of paying a little more to retain their gilded lives or face revolution.
I don't see much evidence from the past to show me that cutting taxes and reducing public spending ends up benefiting those on low and medium incomes over the longer term. For me any successful future has to involve significant long-term wealth redistribution and an activist state. I am sure you look at similar things and see something completely different. It's an honest disagreement taking place in the centre ground. I rather like that.
If the oversupply of labour ran out and wages started to rise everywhere, you could kiss goodbye to about 90% of concerns about immigration.
My most sincere and deepest apologies that I don't sit here all day on PB reading all the threads.
I happen to be working unlike you obviously.
Alternatively you can simply foxtrot Oscar
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/800680567557812224
Am I correct in saying France's electors effectively face the choice of an EU destroying nationalist or a thatcherite.
Rather delicious, really.
It really all started with Blair, cocktail circuits and smooth city slicker style government without the financial finesse and acumen to go with it.
Blair has a lot to answer for including to his own party and Brown was the proverbial kiddie in a sweet shop.
50 shades of red.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/18/my-partner-is-turning-into-a-rightwing-cheerleader-for-ukip-brexit-and-trump?CMP=share_btn_fb
A horrible dilemma indeed for Guardian Woman.
Where does she get the time to argue politics when he's expecting his dinner ready ?
Le Pen 3.75/3.8
Still, difficult times for my book, should look better once Fillon wins the primary (~90%).
Imagine that harridan at dinner parties, killing the conversation with a wild and dangerous opinion of her own...
Michigan's 83 counties have until Nov. 22 to finalize their vote counts, and the state Board of Canvassers will make it official on Nov. 28.
Theresa has upset Wolfgang Schauble with her tax speech.
Maybe she she tell him to 4 cough and start in Luxemburg with the man he helped appoint as EU President
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/nach-mays-rede-schaeuble-warnt-briten-vor-steuer-dumping-14537934.html
Presumably most of thoise voting to stop Sarkozy will have voted for Fillon yesterday as Juppe was regarded as favourite to go through anyway. Question is, how many of that 42% will bother to vote next weekend now they do not have the incentive of voting to stop Sarkozy and how many of those will give their votes to Juppe now that the "stop Sarkozy" job has been done.
Think this is going to be closer than the first round might indicate.
http://www.lesechos.fr/elections/primaire-a-droite/0211515174240-primaire-a-droite-les-ressorts-du-vote-fillon-2044422.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
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