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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » I agree with Fraser Nelson – In September 2010 Labour elect

SystemSystem Posts: 12,179
edited July 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » I agree with Fraser Nelson – In September 2010 Labour elected the best Miliband

After watching David Miliband’s interview on Marr this morning I set out to write a piece that Labour chose the right Miliband. The Speccie’s Fraser Nelson got there before me. This is how he concludes:-

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FPT

    Its lunch - 20 needed with one wicket- Aussies have all afternoon to get them as long as they do not lose concentration after lunch.

    Speaking of lunch, here on the sandy beach just beneath the dunes, my lunch has arrived. Couple of barely-there dressed young ladies have brought the picnic basket and the chilled champagne. Cheers!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    FPT
    Neil said:

    @AveryLP

    You need to borrow an Irish player or two to shore up the squad. I hope the cricket ends before the peleton gets to Mont Ventoux!

    As an Irishman and Green, you need to focus your resources on fewer sports if you want a victory, Neil.

    Hurling in Brighton Pavilion springs to mind as a suitable opportunity.

    As for England, Finn must go, but Morgan won't solve the opening partnership problem.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2013
    On topic - reminds me of when Tone stepped down and there were endless articles telling us how Brown was misunderstood and would turn out to be a great PM...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    On topic - reminds me of when Tone stepped down and there were endless articles telling us how Brown was misunderstood and would turn out to be a great PM...

    Voters think EdM is a dud. I go with crowd sourcing.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    David Miliband was worse than that. He had the choice of either running against Brown or conclusively squishing the speculation. He somehow managed to do neither, which weakened the government without actually solving the problem of Gordon Brown not turning out to be the great electoral asset Labour might have hoped.

    I'm not really seeing what some people seem to see in him. His personal big idea was the individual carbon ration card. He's fine as a speaker, but for the leadership Labour dodged a bullet, IMHO.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    Mr @MorrisDancer's phrase 'opportunistic little shit' IIRC springs to mind.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, and now he's stabbed Unite who got him elected.

    I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit him. He married his wife as a result of awkward questions. Some may smile on this behaviour and call him *ruthless* - I think it stinks - and don't feel he's loyal to anyone but himself.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Some may smile on this behaviour and call him *ruthless* - I think it stinks - and don't feel he's loyal to anyone but himself.''

    Your observation is correct I think, but it makes the tory charge that Ed is 'weak' look very stupid. Ed isn't weak. He wants to be PM and will do whatever it takes to get it, and keep it.

    There's a kind of insurance for voters in that. Ed isn't about to embark on a bunch of crazy leftie measures if its gonna cost him power.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    One of the most exciting cricket matches ever is about to start again after lunch.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @AveryLP

    Actually London has qualified for the Connacht Final of the Gaelic Football championship. Unfortunately Boris cant be convinced to back our boys in Castlebar.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Oh dear. Sir Brian Jarman is accusing labour of running a 'denial machine' over the NHS, according to the Telegraph.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited July 2013
    taffys said:

    ''Some may smile on this behaviour and call him *ruthless* - I think it stinks - and don't feel he's loyal to anyone but himself.''

    Your observation is correct I think, but it makes the tory charge that Ed is 'weak' look very stupid. Ed isn't weak. He wants to be PM and will do whatever it takes to get it, and keep it.

    There's a kind of insurance for voters in that. Ed isn't about to embark on a bunch of crazy leftie measures if its gonna cost him power.

    But he is weak because he's playing endlessly to himself. He's not taking his party voters with him but has ridden on the backs of Unite, Tom Watson re hacking et al. He endlessly calls for 'a judge-led inq' into everything in the desperate hope of hitting a nerve - clearly something he has little natural feel for.

    He's scoring 50s % approval with Labour voters. According to an ex-GF he used 'feel sorry and mother me' to get laid. I'm sorry but none of this says to me Alpha Male Leader Who Is PM Material.

    If we were watching Lost - he'd be the whiny scheming character who lasted until the penultimate episode and was finally killed off.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Plato said:

    He stabbed his brother in the back

    Out of interest where exactly are you seeing the betrayal here? Did Ed promise David he wouldn't run? Did the job somehow rightfully belong to David? Or what?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Plato

    Clearly he doesnt do much for you but the important question is whether he is more attractive to voters who are actually open to voting Labour. I think he is.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @Edmund

    I believe it all comes down to David's wife and his friends saying that in 2009 Ed told David "your time would come" and they interpreted it as "I won't run against you". But Ed's camp says it wasn't the case (so the case could have been "I don't think you would be useless enough to lose against me")

    Or that England is still in 1800 and the eldest brother gets the Kingdom while the other becomes a Bishop.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    taffys said:

    ''Some may smile on this behaviour and call him *ruthless* - I think it stinks - and don't feel he's loyal to anyone but himself.''

    Your observation is correct I think, but it makes the tory charge that Ed is 'weak' look very stupid. Ed isn't weak. He wants to be PM and will do whatever it takes to get it, and keep it.

    There's a kind of insurance for voters in that. Ed isn't about to embark on a bunch of crazy leftie measures if its gonna cost him power.

    Right, he comes over as weird, and the Tories got to define what kind of weird, but they picked the wrong one. They should have gone for "crazy, unpredictable weird", then let the press dig through his rubbish bins and turn anything remotely out of the ordinary into a sign that he might suddenly invade Belgium. Instead they went for "weak and nerdy weird", which fails because:
    1) To the extent that the voters believe it, it reassures them he won't do anything particularly bad.
    2) He can refute "weak" by doing bold things.
    3) Culturally, nerdy is looking better than it used to.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Neil said:

    @Plato

    Clearly he doesnt do much for you but the important question is whether he is more attractive to voters who are actually open to voting Labour. I think he is.

    Well clearly he isn't appealing to CURRENT Labour voters according to the polling so I'm not sure what evidence you have here to go on.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the most exciting cricket matches ever is about to start again after lunch.

    I find it quite depressing, to be honest!

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013

    Plato said:

    He stabbed his brother in the back

    Out of interest where exactly are you seeing the betrayal here? Did Ed promise David he wouldn't run? Did the job somehow rightfully belong to David? Or what?
    You are right, Edmondo.

    But it is difficult to imagine any Labour leadership election avoiding some form of interfamilial treachery. Brother set against brother, husband against wife, father against daughter, son against mother.

    All soap opera politics in the party of hereditary office and nepotist advancement.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    @Edmund

    I believe it all comes down to David's wife and his friends saying that in 2009 Ed told David "your time would come" and they interpreted it as "I won't run against you". But Ed's camp says it wasn't the case (so the case could have been "I don't think you would be useless enough to lose against me")

    Or that England is still in 1800 and the eldest brother gets the Kingdom while the other becomes a Bishop.

    It relates to several things - such as DM not going to his own brother's wedding reception and much family angst around that time, and reports that EdM misled his brother about what he was doing re lobbying unions for support.

    Given we discovered all the stories about Tony vs Gordon were more than true, I suspect this is no different.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013
    Stuffed 'em.

    Never in doubt.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957
    What an ending
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    That is outrageous!

    But wonderful.

    Australia did not deserve to lose like that.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating .
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    Not a very satisfactory way to win a match in truth.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661

    So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating .

    If Broad had walked Swann would have scored a century.

    Australia just keep on fighting. They never give up. It is hugely impressive.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    taffys said:


    There's a kind of insurance for voters in that. Ed isn't about to embark on a bunch of crazy leftie measures if its gonna cost him power.

    That's a risk.

    Let's say that he decided the best way to keep power is to give Ed Balls free reign over the economy - the chance to destroy it again. A bit like Blair and Brown - Blair didn't agree, and didn't approve of Brown's actions, but he needed him to ensure his personal position.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @Plato

    I think we have established that he didn't take losing well. The sense of betrayal is probably in David's mind/heart. But if it does come out from anything with real substance or not, it is up in the air for us who have not Miliband as surname.

    "EdM misled his brother about what he was doing re lobbying unions for support."

    in other words, this is called "campaigning". The thing David's team didn't understand well
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    England won fair and square. Its up to the Umpires to decide if a player is out.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited July 2013

    So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating .

    So Haddin should have walked ?

    Anyway two magnificent rear guard actions from Australia.

    The real winner is Test Cricket and the Ashes.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,261
    @AndreaParma_82

    That makes this a Bashing the Bishop thread, then.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,261
    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating .

    Haddin should have walked ?

    Anyway two magnificent rear guard actions from Australia.

    The real winner is Test Cricket and the Ashes.

    Nope , the real winner is cheating , it wins matches .

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013

    So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating .

    Haddin should have walked ?

    Anyway two magnificent rear guard actions from Australia.

    The real winner is Test Cricket and the Ashes.

    Nope , the real winner is cheating , it wins matches .

    Are you going to do a test match bar chart, Mark?

    As Lord Rennard's acolytes might say, Haddin touched it.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.

    We need to get Dr. Sox to give SO a new spine.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    Can't believe Test Match Special isn't covering the formal presentations.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2013
    I agree that it might have been better for Labour and his chances of leadership if David had gone against Brown in '08 but loyalty does count for something even in politics and if he'd stabbed Brown in the back-and that's what it would have been-you'd have wanted a very long spoon before you thought about supping with him again.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2013
    @MarkSenior

    'So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating"

    I agree. a very hollow victory where the big loser is the game and England's reputation
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that you are onto something with cultural attitudes to nerds changing.

    Is it the internet millionaires? Is it the rise of feminism? Is it the move to a less violent society?

    Take "the big bang theory" as the "friends" of the contemporary sitcom. The heros are the nerds, and Sheldon is shown as hero as well as social misfit, and notably the four nerd boys are enjoying life while the beautiful and popular Penny is left behind.

    Youth, looks and popularity fade, an abiding interest in trains, politics or wargames can make for a lifetimes enjoyment.

    Arise Ed Miliband, and lead us nerds to the sunny uplands of predistribution!

    taffys said:

    ''Some may smile on this behaviour and call him *ruthless* - I think it stinks - and don't feel he's loyal to anyone but himself.''

    Your observation is correct I think, but it makes the tory charge that Ed is 'weak' look very stupid. Ed isn't weak. He wants to be PM and will do whatever it takes to get it, and keep it.

    There's a kind of insurance for voters in that. Ed isn't about to embark on a bunch of crazy leftie measures if its gonna cost him power.

    Right, he comes over as weird, and the Tories got to define what kind of weird, but they picked the wrong one. They should have gone for "crazy, unpredictable weird", then let the press dig through his rubbish bins and turn anything remotely out of the ordinary into a sign that he might suddenly invade Belgium. Instead they went for "weak and nerdy weird", which fails because:
    1) To the extent that the voters believe it, it reassures them he won't do anything particularly bad.
    2) He can refute "weak" by doing bold things.
    3) Culturally, nerdy is looking better than it used to.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    AveryLP said:

    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.

    We need to get Dr. Sox to give SO a new spine.

    I have a very weak sporting spine, it's true. That's what 45 years of supporting Spurs and the England football team does. You are conditioned to expect it will go wrong. The upside is that when it doesn't the joy is even more intense. In fact, it's only in football, now, that I have not experienced that championship elation. But there will be peace in the Middle East before that happens. Which is another way of saying that I am reconciled to never seeing all my sporting dreams come true. It's not the defeat that gets me, it's the hope I can't stand!

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Roger said:

    @MarkSenior

    'So England scrape home all down to Broad's cheating"

    I agree. a very hollow victory where the big loser is the game and England's reputation

    Clarke shows the class that you lack ;

    " Australia captain Michael Clarke: "The boys can hold their heads high. It was a wonderful game of cricket but credit to England, they fought well. The two best performers in the match were Ian Bell and Jimmy Anderson and England deserved the win. "
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    So fed up with people calling Broad a cheat. Letting the Umpire determine who is In or Out is never cheating. You never see a bowler let a batsman come back because the umpire incorrectly gave them out caught do you?

    Especially nowadays with DRS. If Australia hadn't wasted their reviews on balls going down leg side trying to get a bonus wicket they'd have had a review to use on Broad.
  • Excellent English victory. Just a shame Brad Haddin had to ruin it by not walking with that massive edge.

    Im sure Rodger has written many posts criticising him and Michael Clarke for not walking yesterday...
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    I wouldn't pin the blame entirely on David Miliband. I think that the whole PLP from the most senior Cabinet members down to the backbenchers were all complicit in delivering Brown's Premiership. And what made it worse is the fact that they all knew better than anyone else just how unsuited he was to the role of PM and party leaders.

    On the issue of which of the Miliband brother was the better option, neither are as they both share one big problem with the other candidates that ran in the last Labour Leadership contest. And that is the fact that none of them were suited to the job of finally healing the wounds created by the Blair/Brown years at the most senior levels of the PLP and bringing about a sense of unity and purpose. With a Coalition Government comes the luxury of being the only main Opposition, and that has bred a complacency that has allowed a lack of strong Leadership and a policy vacuum to grow unhindered.

    Whatever you say about Cameron's leadership in Opposition, the fact that he managed to bring back Hague, IDS and even Clarke into the fold of the Shadow Cabinet speaks volumes about the current dire straights in the upper echelons of the Labour party.

    David Miliband was worse than that. He had the choice of either running against Brown or conclusively squishing the speculation. He somehow managed to do neither, which weakened the government without actually solving the problem of Gordon Brown not turning out to be the great electoral asset Labour might have hoped.

    I'm not really seeing what some people seem to see in him. His personal big idea was the individual carbon ration card. He's fine as a speaker, but for the leadership Labour dodged a bullet, IMHO.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.

    We need to get Dr. Sox to give SO a new spine.

    I have a very weak sporting spine, it's true. That's what 45 years of supporting Spurs and the England football team does. You are conditioned to expect it will go wrong. The upside is that when it doesn't the joy is even more intense. In fact, it's only in football, now, that I have not experienced that championship elation. But there will be peace in the Middle East before that happens. Which is another way of saying that I am reconciled to never seeing all my sporting dreams come true. It's not the defeat that gets me, it's the hope I can't stand!

    Speaking of the game of soccer, SO, isn't Shahid Khan, the new owner of Fulham FC, a splendid fellow?

    Were I ever to attend a PB do I would be most disappointed if TSE wasn't his splitting image.

    I predict much jollity to come from this change alone. With Mourinho back in place just up the Kings Road and Fergie consigned to the dustbin of history, what more could one want?.

    Even Villas-Boas holds better than average promise.

    We are witnessing a new Cameronian dawn. It is time to celebrate.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    As a Leicester City fan I envy Spurs position!

    Supporting Leicester City means sufferring a lot of inept managers and substandard players. To me it is like the British weather. You really enjoy the good bits, like this sunny weekend, because of their scarcity. As Ian Botham said after spending a year in Queensland and returning to England "you can only take so much f***ing sunshine"

    AveryLP said:

    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.

    We need to get Dr. Sox to give SO a new spine.

    I have a very weak sporting spine, it's true. That's what 45 years of supporting Spurs and the England football team does. You are conditioned to expect it will go wrong. The upside is that when it doesn't the joy is even more intense. In fact, it's only in football, now, that I have not experienced that championship elation. But there will be peace in the Middle East before that happens. Which is another way of saying that I am reconciled to never seeing all my sporting dreams come true. It's not the defeat that gets me, it's the hope I can't stand!

  • TGOHF said:

    On topic - reminds me of when Tone stepped down and there were endless articles telling us how Brown was misunderstood and would turn out to be a great PM...


    I'm surprised Mike Smithson has allowed this one to go unchallenged. There were not endless articles here at the time telling us Brown would be a great PM, quite the contrary. Mike penned many articles using polling evidence to assert what a great mistake the Labour Party was making in electing him leader.


  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    what are the Labour equivalents of Hague and IDS to be brought back into the Shadow Cabinet? Kinnock and Brown? Darling is Clarke.
    fitalass said:


    Whatever you say about Cameron's leadership in Opposition, the fact that he managed to bring back Hague, IDS and even Clarke into the fold of the Shadow Cabinet speaks volumes about the current dire straights in the upper echelons of the Labour party.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2013
    @Moniker

    "Clarke shows the class that you lack ;"

    No. Clark shows dignity in defeat which is what good sportsmanship demands. As an English supporter I'd suggest banning Broad for the rest of the season which neither shows I have or haven't got class. It just shows the way I prefer cricket to be played..
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    fitalass said:

    I wouldn't pin the blame entirely on David Miliband. I think that the whole PLP from the most senior Cabinet members down to the backbenchers were all complicit in delivering Brown's Premiership. And what made it worse is the fact that they all knew better than anyone else just how unsuited he was to the role of PM and party leaders.

    I'm not criticizing David Miliband for not running against Brown. I'm criticizing him for neither running against Brown nor squishing the rumours that he was going to run against Brown.

    There are advantages to being aggressive, and there are advantages to being loyal. But David Miliband's thing seems to be passive-aggressive, which is the worst of both worlds.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited July 2013

    what are the Labour equivalents of Hague and IDS to be brought back into the Shadow Cabinet? Kinnock and Brown? Darling is Clarke.

    fitalass said:


    Whatever you say about Cameron's leadership in Opposition, the fact that he managed to bring back Hague, IDS and even Clarke into the fold of the Shadow Cabinet speaks volumes about the current dire straights in the upper echelons of the Labour party.

    Andrea

    There is no one of equivalent stature to Hague and IDS in the Labour Party. One would need to exhume Michael Foot and John Smith to fill the shadow cabinet.

    Either that or wait for Rowenna Davis to become an MP.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    AveryLP said:

    There is no one of equivalent stature to Hague and IDS in the Labour Party. One would need to exhume Michael Foot and John Smith to fill the cabinet.

    Alternatively they could lose the next two elections, then the equivalents would be Ed Miliband and whoever the next unlucky leader was.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @Avery

    it's today. Southampton Itchen select today. Have you phoned Len?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,045
    AveryLP said:


    There is no one of equivalent stature to Hague and IDS in the Labour Party.

    Even the Labour party aren't that useless.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    @SouthamObserver

    You're too soft. They always deserve to lose.

    We need to get Dr. Sox to give SO a new spine.

    I have a very weak sporting spine, it's true. That's what 45 years of supporting Spurs and the England football team does. You are conditioned to expect it will go wrong. The upside is that when it doesn't the joy is even more intense. In fact, it's only in football, now, that I have not experienced that championship elation. But there will be peace in the Middle East before that happens. Which is another way of saying that I am reconciled to never seeing all my sporting dreams come true. It's not the defeat that gets me, it's the hope I can't stand!

    Speaking of the game of soccer, SO, isn't Shahid Khan, the new owner of Fulham FC, a splendid fellow?

    Were I ever to attend a PB do I would be most disappointed if TSE wasn't his splitting image.

    I predict much jollity to come from this change alone. With Mourinho back in place just up the Kings Road and Fergie consigned to the dustbin of history, what more could one want?.

    Even Villas-Boas holds better than average promise.

    We are witnessing a new Cameronian dawn. It is time to celebrate.


    It is true that Spurs do better under the Tories.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "Clarke shows the class that you lack ;"

    No. Clark shows dignity in defeat which is what good sportsmanship demands. As an English supporter I'd suggest banning Broad for the rest of the season which neither shows I have or haven't got class. It just shows the way I prefer cricket to be played..

    What about Clarke not walking,he knew he was out but he thought he might get away it by chancing it on cricket technology,so he chanced it by using one of his teams reviews.

    Not just cheating but also using one of Australians review for his own sake of not walking.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @Avery

    it's today. Southampton Itchen select today. Have you phoned Len?

    My heart is Itchen, Andrea, my heart is Itchen.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    AveryLP said:


    There is no one of equivalent stature to Hague and IDS in the Labour Party.

    Even the Labour party aren't that useless.
    Oh I think they are,please name 5 top of the draw shadow labour politicians.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    There is no one of equivalent stature to Hague and IDS in the Labour Party. One would need to exhume Michael Foot and John Smith to fill the cabinet.

    Alternatively they could lose the next two elections, then the equivalents would be Ed Miliband and whoever the next unlucky leader was.
    A betting man might say your suggestion has more value than mine.

    I would even go as far to say a fair price for your outcome would be odds on.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2013
    Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "Clarke shows the class that you lack ;"

    No. Clark shows dignity in defeat which is what good sportsmanship demands. As an English supporter I'd suggest banning Broad for the rest of the season which neither shows I have or haven't got class. It just shows the way I prefer cricket to be played..

    Ban Broad for what? Letting the Umpires do their job?

    Its been said for decades that its inappropriate nowadays for batsmen to walk if not given out. On the Aussie side Haddin didn't walk, Clark didn't walk. Clark had 2 DRS reviews designed to fix Umpire-howlers. It is not Broad's fault that Clark wasted his 2 reviews.

    Had the shoe been on the other foot, England had wasted their reviews and Broad had been given out when he wasn't (say it was given LBW but was really sliding down leg) would Australia have called him back to continue? No. Sometimes you get a good decision, sometimes a bad one, you are never obliged to walk.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    Andrea, Ed Miliband currently has the architect of the last Labour's Governments economic legacy as Shadow Chancellor while Darling and Straw are sitting on the backbenches. These two Labour bruisers managed to steer a course through both the Blair and the Brown years, and that was no mean feat. There is no figure in the current Shadow Cabinet that is effectively acting as both an outrider for Miliband, and while gathering the collective team support of his Cabinet around him. And that not only weakens Ed Miliband as a Leader, but it also collectively weakens his Shadow Cabinet. Cameron was criticised for holding what became called a 'kitchen cabinet' during the Opposition years, has Miliband got enough uber loyal Shadow Ministers to fill the seats around his kitchen table?

    Cameron used to have all the previous Conservative leaders in for a chat at regular intervals, ditto Osborne when it came to the previous Chancellors. Indeed, John Major who had all but disappeared from political life also turned up and made a powerful intervention when Brown went to Iraq during the Conservative Conference in 2007. Labour have yet to elect a Leader that is capable of persuading the old Labour protagonists to get around a table for a chat, Ed couldn't even get his brother to be his best man at his wedding.

    what are the Labour equivalents of Hague and IDS to be brought back into the Shadow Cabinet? Kinnock and Brown? Darling is Clarke.

    fitalass said:


    Whatever you say about Cameron's leadership in Opposition, the fact that he managed to bring back Hague, IDS and even Clarke into the fold of the Shadow Cabinet speaks volumes about the current dire straights in the upper echelons of the Labour party.

  • Roger said:

    @Moniker

    "Clarke shows the class that you lack ;"

    No. Clark shows dignity in defeat which is what good sportsmanship demands. As an English supporter I'd suggest banning Broad for the rest of the season which neither shows I have or haven't got class. It just shows the way I prefer cricket to be played..

    Wind your neck in son and get down from your ivory tower. Your monumental self-righteousness is affecting the brick work.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2013
    Call me old fashioned but if you are caught off your bat you are out. Some people don't walk but some people make fraudulent claims against insurance companies because it's for the insurance company to spot the fraudulent claim.

    Everyone has their own sense of what is right. You don't need a set of rules to tell you that if you're caught you're out.

    Where I went to school not walking was a capital offence and few schools produced more county players.


    There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
    But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Yet another British triumph ;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23306438

    A salute to Tom Simpson.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2013
    Catch22.

    "Wind your neck in son and get down from your ivory tower. Your monumental self-righteousness is affecting the brick work."

    If you are a deputy headmaster all is now clear. Just tell me you're in charge of sport at your school and I'll shoot myself
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,045
    edited July 2013



    Oh I think they are,please name 5 top of the draw shadow labour politicians.

    I'm not saying many are 'top of the draw', just that several are a match for the creaky-voiced judoka and Ian 'Stats' Duncan Smith.
  • Roger said:

    Call me old fashioned but if you are caught off your bat you are out. Some people don't walk but some people make fraudulent claims against insurance companies because it's for the insurance company to spot the fraudulent claim. Everyone has their own sense of morality. Where I went to school not walking was a capital offence and few schools produced more county players.


    There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
    But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    You're not old fashioned, you are a spectacular specimen of the Oozlum bird.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Fitalass, forgetStraw and Darling. It is Margharet Beckett who is greatest survivor of all. From Campaign Group to Tribune to Blair's government to Brown's years. Now she is on the NEC.

    I believe Darling would be more useful in the Shadow Cabinet than some sitting there. I think Straw can stay on the backbenches to give some advices if needed.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    edited July 2013
    Greg Mulholland in the Daily Mail - Come on, Nick, you KNOW we've got to back an EU vote: Lib Dem rebel uses his own leader's words to prove why we need a referendum

    "Five years ago, I was one of 15 Liberal Democrat MPs who voted against the party whip and for a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty. As a liberal and a democrat, I did not feel that I should be denying the British people the right to vote on a matter with constitutional implications.

    And I was one of the Liberal Democrat MPs, who, with our leader Nick Clegg, walked out of the Commons in 2008 when the then speaker, Michael Martin, refused to call a Lib Dem amendment on an in-out referendum.

    Though I voted for a referendum on Lisbon, I also agreed with what Nick Clegg said at the time: ‘Gordon Brown cannot ignore the rightful demand of the British people to have their say on Europe. They were promised a vote far, far wider than the Lisbon Treaty .  .  . and that promise must now be fulfilled. It should be fulfilled by asking the British people the real question – the question that matters to them: ‘‘Should we stay in the EU, or should we leave? Are we in – or are we out?” ’

    Nick also said: ‘Nobody in this country under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. That includes half of all MPs. We’ve been signed up to Europe by default: two generations who have never had their say.’

    If that was the case in 2008, it must be even more true now.

    I agree with Nick when he says it is not a case of if, but when, we have a referendum; but that means that the Liberal Democrats need to be seen to be committed to that ‘when’; and it must be in the next four years – by 2017 – to have any credibility. My own view is that we are better off in the European Union, but that it needs reform and so we should seek to influence things from within."

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    A housing protestar has been headbutted in front of Community ventre were Hampstead labour selection is taking place....ambulance callex
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Big similarity between rEd and Brown in that they both want to be PM but no idea why other than Labour party aggrandisement.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Roger said:

    Just tell me you're in charge of sport at your school and I'll shoot myself

    Come on @YossariansChild, please tell us if you are. A nation awaits - rather like a Portsmouth FC fan - hopeful and yet resigned to disappointment.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    You hit the nail on the head, and that was clear as far back as the Labour Leadership contest.
    TGOHF said:

    Big similarity between rEd and Brown in that they both want to be PM but no idea why other than Labour party aggrandisement.



  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    Daily Mail - David Miliband says he can 'never erase' Labour leadership loss to his brother... but adds the rift is finally healing

    "David Miliband today admitted he can 'never erase' the memory of losing against his brother in their bitter struggle for the Labour leadership three years ago.

    But the former foreign secretary added his relationship with younger brother Ed is 'healing' and there was no point 'looking in the rear view mirror'.

    The ex-MP spoke candidly to veteran broadcaster Andrew Marr, who returned to his BBC show on Sunday, just six months after suffering a stroke.

    The interview was Mr Miliband's last before he moves to New York to head up the International Rescue Committee charity.

    Although he did not completely rule out a comeback, he added that leaving British politics would ensure an end to the 'soap opera' of the brothers' rivalry.

    Mr Miliband said: 'The truth is I did not think I would be in this position.But I am now, I'm excited, I am engaged. Of course I am sad to go, but I am excited by the challenge ahead.'

    He added: 'These things, you can never erase them from memory or history.

    'But Ed and I are brothers for life. That is something that you value and that you nurture whatever the difficulty of the circumstances.'

    Asked if his relationship with Ed was 'healing', Mr Miliband replied: 'Of course.'

    Comparing the brothers to Wimbledon tennis finalists Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic, he continued: 'The important thing though is that you've got to never lead your life by looking in the rear view mirror.

    'You can't afford to end up eating yourself up with that kind of struggle.

    'You've got to try and say, there are the Murrays of this world who win and there are the Djokovics who come second. You've got to be gracious when you don't win.'"



  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Roger said:

    Call me old fashioned but if you are caught off your bat you are out. Some people don't walk but some people make fraudulent claims against insurance companies because it's for the insurance company to spot the fraudulent claim. Everyone has their own sense of morality. Where I went to school not walking was a capital offence and few schools produced more county players.


    There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night—
    Ten to make and the match to win—
    A bumping pitch and a blinding light,
    An hour to play and the last man in.
    And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat,
    Or the selfish hope of a season's fame,
    But his captain's hand on his shoulder smote
    "Play up! play up! and play the game!"

    You're not old fashioned, you are a spectacular specimen of the Oozlum bird.
    I'm with Roger in this. Somehow that poem always epitomises cricket and leadership.

    It also brings a tear to my eye every time I read it. And I was never, ever, near a public school in my younger days. Three cheers for Sir Henry Newbolt and Vitea Lampada.


  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Understanding I shouldn't write from the mobile....
    this message
    "A housing protestar has been headbutted in front of Community ventre were Hampstead labour selection is taking place....ambulance callex "

    actually means

    "Housing protester has been headbuttted in front of the Community Centre where Hampstead & Kilburn Labour selection is taking place...ambulance called"
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    Yet another British triumph ;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23306438

    A salute to Tom Simpson.

    Err... would that be Tom Simpson the drugs cheat?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    @ "TGOHF" "Big similarity between rEd and Brown in that they both want to be PM but no idea why other than Labour party aggrandisement".

    I am so impressed that you just know all these things and have these marvellous insights into peoples' motives, you must be so clever, then, on the other hand...


  • Was there any doping control in those days?

    Yet another British triumph ;

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23306438

    A salute to Tom Simpson.

    Err... would that be Tom Simpson the drugs cheat?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Close the windows and blinds and run the bath / shower cold.

    Also buy an airconditoner - costs £100, but can make a 3-4 degree difference.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Close blinds/curtains, open windows - a bit at the top and bottom, if possible.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited July 2013
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    You can afford to buy wooden shutters for all your windows SeanT - with slats that open and close of course. Send your fee for advice to MikeK Consultants.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Can you close the blinds and open the window?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957
    Charles said:



    Also buy an airconditoner - costs £100, but can make a 3-4 degree difference.

    As someone who lives in Arizona, I can say with great confidence that an AC unit makes significantly more than 3-4 degrees difference!!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    OllyT said:

    @ "TGOHF" "Big similarity between rEd and Brown in that they both want to be PM but no idea why other than Labour party aggrandisement".

    I am so impressed that you just know all these things and have these marvellous insights into peoples' motives, you must be so clever, then, on the other hand...


    People know a lot about Ed Miliband on here. Thanks to reading PB I know that not only does he want to be PM but not know why, but he was also forced into getting married.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Get every window in flat open and see if you can get a breeze going, and invest in some good fans as it might be a long hot summer.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Natasha Millward wins Labour Dudley South selection.
    http://www.natashamillward.org.uk/

    She was one of the Unite backed candidates.

    Running total of Unite's 41 is now
    11 selected
    14 defeated
    16 to go
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Can you close the blinds and open the window?
    Probably not but perhaps his Thai maid can .

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957

    RobD said:

    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Can you close the blinds and open the window?
    Probably not but perhaps his Thai maid can .

    I assume there is one for closing the blinds, and another for opening the windows.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    I'm a bit UKIP when it comes to measurements. The only non-imperial one I use regularly is minus celsius for temperatures, which is peculiar when you think about it because I use farenheit for plus temps (it's not 41 degrees celsius, it's 105 degrees farenheit); and always inches, feet, yards, miles, ounces, pounds and stone.

    Julius Caeser said with a smile
    There are 1,760 yards in a mile
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Was there any doping control in those days?

    There was but the vast majority in the peleton (including the great names of the time) were doping anyway. Simpson paid a higher price for doping than most.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Awful

    Two serviceman have tragically died during a training exercise in searing heat, the Ministry of Defence has said.

    It appears the men died from the exertion of training in the extreme, near 30C temperatures, rather than from wounding, sources said. A third person remains in hospital following the tragedy, which happened in the Brecon Beacons in Wales.

    A spokesman said: 'The MoD can confirm that it is working with Dyfed Powys Police to investigate an incident during a training exercise on the Brecon Beacons on Saturday in which two members of military personnel died.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362942/Brecon-Beacons-deaths-2-servicemen-succumb-heat-exhaustion-training.html#ixzz2Z2JlkvCk
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    Neil said:

    Was there any doping control in those days?

    There was but the vast majority in the peleton (including the great names of the time) were doping anyway. Simpson paid a higher price for doping than most.

    The brandy probably wasn't the best idea.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,314
    Yes, that about sums it up for Ed Milband sadly. Unfortunately there remains a huge vacuum where there should be a list of policies on the important issues facing the country. So no surprise its a struggle to fill in those blanks on a political betting site.

    OllyT said:

    @ "TGOHF" "Big similarity between rEd and Brown in that they both want to be PM but no idea why other than Labour party aggrandisement".

    I am so impressed that you just know all these things and have these marvellous insights into peoples' motives, you must be so clever, then, on the other hand...


    People know a lot about Ed Miliband on here. Thanks to reading PB I know that not only does he want to be PM but not know why, but he was also forced into getting married.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I see Twitter appears to be someone's undoing again - Mr Burnham.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPJZThyCIAEyvp_.jpg:large

    Ben @Jamin2g
    I didn't do it, wasn't me & even though my words in 09 contradict what I say now I'm right. @andyburnhammp #skynews pic.twitter.com/ZQv8qOjOy5
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    edited July 2013
    I don't know why they couldn't cancel the training exercise when they saw what the weather would be like.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    edited July 2013
    SeanT said:

    Help. I've come home to find that the temp in the living room in my southfacing flat is 41C. Dangerously hot.

    How do I cool it? Close all windows and blinds? Open the windows a bit? Google gives conflicting advice.

    Just thought of this so probably wrong but when you open all the windows and there's still no breeze maybe the thing to do would be open them from the top on one side of the house and from the bottom on the other side and see if gravity creates a breeze. I may experiment.

    Fridge picnics are good too.


    edit: rubbish idea
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Dare I suggest going out for refreshment somewhere cooler?
    SeanT said:

    Thanks for all the advice, but again it conflicts. Some say shut all windows, some say open. Blinds obviously closed...

    *sweats*

    But thanks. Yes an aircon may be necessary. FFFfwwwwww.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Pic from Labour Hampstead selection meeting ...it seems they are casting the votes now

    https://twitter.com/josephpowell/status/356439907478171648/photo/1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2013
    RobD said:

    Charles said:



    Also buy an airconditoner - costs £100, but can make a 3-4 degree difference.

    As someone who lives in Arizona, I can say with great confidence that an AC unit makes significantly more than 3-4 degrees difference!!
    A good one, yes!

    I was thinking one of the portable pieces of cr*p that you get in B&Q...

    Off to SoCal on Friday... looking forward to trying the aircon I had installed while I was in the UK :)
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    SeanT,
    I find it difficult to call this weather "hot". It really suits me, but it can be oppressive in closed spaces. As I recollect, you have quite big windows, nice for the winter sun, but un-nice in the summer "heat". Open windows to try to get a through put of air (not a good day for that where I am) and strip down. I wonder whether some sort of awnings or blinds might not help, but we have so little "warm" weather that might be a waste of money, even if your building regulations allow it. Once in a similar situation I taped aluminum foil on the inside of a couple of offending windows, but that was in the back of a building and not in a posh part of town either.
This discussion has been closed.