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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,699
    Plato said:

    Just watching Ed Davey being hard pressed by Mr Neil - he seems to be willing to accept that others don't agree with him and global warming, but only if you actually agree with 99% of what he thinks is happening.

    A most peculiar interview.

    But a brilliant forensic job by Brillo - in the end I thought Davey held on ok against some very tricky questioning. Brillo for Newsnight!

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Penddu said:

    Going completely off topic - I have been thinking about RWC in 2015, and strongly suggest putting some money on Wales for the final. Firstly Wales are drawn in same group as England and Australia. Having destroyed England in 6N earlier this year and a Welsh dominated Lions team stuffing the Ozzies, Wales have strong chance of topping the group if they can maintain their form. The group winners would probably face Scotland or Samoa in QF then France or Argentina in SF. Must be worth a few quid - any bookies taking bets yet?

    All bookies are taking bets. 9/1 generally and 10/1 in a place against Wales winning the 2015 Rugby World Cup.
    http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/winner
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    tim said:

    Plato said:

    Camilla Cavendish has been tasked with reporting on what needs to be changed to improve NHS care - this is worth reading in full

    This illustrates what is wrong with public services and no doubt large swathes of the UK private sector as well.

    A well-intentioned individual, with or without a small committee, looks at an area outwith their own expertise and writes a report, at whose validity we can only guess in the absence of any real evidence beyond the odd, illustrative anecdote ("I was repeatedly told ..."). Perhaps decades ago, this was inevitable but in the 21st Century it should be unacceptable.

    Cavendish, like many, deplores box-ticking. You know what box-ticking leads to? It leads to a metric shit-ton of data. We have data, we have statisticians, we have computers. Do we use these tools to analyse what goes wrong, which factors improve outcomes?

    No, we appoint a journalist who just happens to have studied PPE at Brasenose at roughly the same time David Cameron studied PPE at Brasenose. What are the chances?
    I'd wondered why she got the gig.
    Makes a change from one of his Bullingdon Chums reviewing schools building programmes I guess.
    Jeremy Chum of course was also a contemporary of Daves at Oxford.
    Like to tell us about Blair, Falconer and Irvine; and that's before we really start looking at cronyism ? You're still struggling to find anything worth saying .

    Labour no policies, no point.

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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Neil .. don't take up serious journalism.. little words mean a lot.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,699
    Good point by Janan Ganesh at the end of the Sunday Politics - if "term had ended" last week the narrative over the summer would have been about Ed being on the back foot over Union influence - but he managed to pull it back., And whatever travails affect Labour, you can always rely on a Tory backbencher to kick off over Europe, deflecting attention from them.....
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    PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    Hmmm - I might take 10/1 nearer the time but not this far out...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DecrepitJohnL,

    I agree PPE educated journalists should not be constructing reports like this. This sort of data requires detailed forensic statistical analysis by experts in medical statistics and epidemiology. It is no wonder the CQC is ineffective.

    The cult of the gentleman amateur is one of this countries achilles heels for well over a century. It riddles our politics, journalism, civil service and quangos with half baked ideas. We insist on evidence based medicine, then implement back of the envolope ideas cooked up on a sofa by PPE politicians and their friends in the lobby.

    It is the fundamental flaw of our public life.

    Plato said:

    Camilla Cavendish has been tasked with reporting on what needs to be changed to improve NHS care - this is worth reading in full

    This illustrates what is wrong with public services and no doubt large swathes of the UK private sector as well.

    A well-intentioned individual, with or without a small committee, looks at an area outwith their own expertise and writes a report, at whose validity we can only guess in the absence of any real evidence beyond the odd, illustrative anecdote ("I was repeatedly told ..."). Perhaps decades ago, this was inevitable but in the 21st Century it should be unacceptable.

    Cavendish, like many, deplores box-ticking. You know what box-ticking leads to? It leads to a metric shit-ton of data. We have data, we have statisticians, we have computers. Do we use these tools to analyse what goes wrong, which factors improve outcomes?

    No, we appoint a journalist who just happens to have studied PPE at Brasenose at roughly the same time David Cameron studied PPE at Brasenose. What are the chances?
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420

    Well, I've worked all my life in the private sector and am not related to any doctors, nurses, or any other health professionals. And I think you will find, if you look very closely at this thread and others, it is generally those who defend the NHS who are calling for proper data collection and analysis and, in your words, decency and logic.

    Thanks,

    I have worked for the NHS - data systems that have even included the waste that was EDS - so I have come to the conclusion that decency and logic are well-down-the-list. [One HNS Trust in London learnt a very expensive lesson about IT: Cronie-Blair, however, was just treated in the manner of a Hammersmith/Chelsea gangsta' - boolakah!]

    I have also had a very interesting time fixing Cancer-cell research systems for the MRC. [Sorry Professor Davy.] My experiences within the NHS environment would justify the kind of bigotry that the Duchess-of-Peckham, 'Arriet - does my armour-plate make me look flat - 'Ardbint enforced upon England in 2010.

    Thankfully, life moves on. Gawd bless The Netherlands....
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Plato said:

    What a pity that you chose to make an ad hom attack on Ms Cavendish who has become a non-exec dir of the CQC because of her expertise gained through her work as a journalist.

    Plato said:

    Camilla Cavendish has been tasked with reporting on what needs to be changed to improve NHS care - this is worth reading in full

    This illustrates what is wrong with public services and no doubt large swathes of the UK private sector as well.

    A well-intentioned individual, with or without a small committee, looks at an area outwith their own expertise and writes a report, at whose validity we can only guess in the absence of any real evidence beyond the odd, illustrative anecdote ("I was repeatedly told ..."). Perhaps decades ago, this was inevitable but in the 21st Century it should be unacceptable.

    Cavendish, like many, deplores box-ticking. You know what box-ticking leads to? It leads to a metric shit-ton of data. We have data, we have statisticians, we have computers. Do we use these tools to analyse what goes wrong, which factors improve outcomes?

    No, we appoint a journalist who just happens to have studied PPE at Brasenose at roughly the same time David Cameron studied PPE at Brasenose. What are the chances?
    You miss the point. It does not matter who is the unqualified inquisitor in this or any other particular instance. There is an abundance of data which can and should be analysed to inform and guide policy. We should no longer be reliant on old school friends of David Cameron or Tony Blair.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    F1: mid-season betting review (shorter than usual) is up (twice, actually):
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/mid-season-review-betting.html
    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/mid-season-review-betting.html

    The racing review will be longer and will follow the Young Driver Test.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,990
    Is Lamont sharing a flat with Assange or in holding area at Moscow. Missing for weeks now

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I do however wish that the NHS was renamed the English HS and the Scottish HS and the Welsh HS etc. That is the reality.

    Agree - it would also help highlight the differing outcomes between them - for all to learn from. Like why relative life expectancy has declined under the Scottish Health Service....

    How does that work when life expectancy has been rising for a long time
    Since devolution life expectancy has risen faster in England than it has in Scotland.
    Which only goes to prove that YES is the only way to go to ensure that we are not funding higher life expectancy in England at the expense of our own people dying prematurely. It is impossible for the union to be beneficial for Scotland given the difference in size and priorities required for both countries. Scotland will never be a priority in the union, anyone expecting that to be the case or trying to promote it is a liar or a fool or both.
    You've got your facts wrong , as usual ;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2031543/UK-government-spending-Scots-1-600-year-spent-English.html

    malcolmg ; liar , fool or both ?
    LOL, monica using fake numbers from the Daily Mail. Next you will be telling me that the oil money stuck on Westminster balance sheet does really originate in Westminster. Real numbers show the money flows to London and is spent there
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,990

    @malcolmg - you do know that Health is a devolved power, don't you?

    If the separatists argument is "give Edinburgh the power to run things better than Westminster" surely the logical corollary is that things Edinburgh has run worse than Westminster should be returned to Westminster?

    Or is it only a one way street?

    Carlotta, when they have their own money to spend it as they wish , then you will see what can be done, rather than the scraps sent up by Westminster. Most powers are retained in Westminster by the troughers.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I wonder if green energy issue will develop into a 21st century version of the Corn Laws.

    Ed Davey not having much fun with Andrew Neil....does not appear on top of his brief....

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    foxinsoxuk said:
    "There are also a lot of chickens coming home to roost over the expansion of medical schools, the lack of teaching of anatomy, pathophysiology and pharmacology in favour of softer subjects, and the disastrous changes in postgraduate training in 2005-6.

    Some of my colleagues strongly prefer working with overseas trained doctors as they have had more rigorous scientific training than our local graduates. It is a similar phenomenon of dumbing down that has affected secondary and university education in the UK."

    It is for the same reason that we are becoming reluctant to recruit UK graduate scientists and engineers. Their technical base has become too narrow to support anything other than their specific specialism.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    Just watching Ed Davey being hard pressed by Mr Neil - he seems to be willing to accept that others don't agree with him and global warming, but only if you actually agree with 99% of what he thinks is happening.

    A most peculiar interview.

    But a brilliant forensic job by Brillo - in the end I thought Davey held on ok against some very tricky questioning. Brillo for Newsnight!

    Brillo totally nailed a warmist several years ago by showing he knew more than him re urban heat islands. There is also the infamous intv with Bob Ward LSE who used to be all over the telly.

    All those intv have disappeared from YouTube - I assume Mr Ward didn't like them much...
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato said:

    What a pity that you chose to make an ad hom attack on Ms Cavendish who has become a non-exec dir of the CQC because of her expertise gained through her work as a journalist.

    Plato said:

    Camilla Cavendish has been tasked with reporting on what needs to be changed to improve NHS care - this is worth reading in full

    This illustrates what is wrong with public services and no doubt large swathes of the UK private sector as well.

    A well-intentioned individual, with or without a small committee, looks at an area outwith their own expertise and writes a report, at whose validity we can only guess in the absence of any real evidence beyond the odd, illustrative anecdote ("I was repeatedly told ..."). Perhaps decades ago, this was inevitable but in the 21st Century it should be unacceptable.

    Cavendish, like many, deplores box-ticking. You know what box-ticking leads to? It leads to a metric shit-ton of data. We have data, we have statisticians, we have computers. Do we use these tools to analyse what goes wrong, which factors improve outcomes?

    No, we appoint a journalist who just happens to have studied PPE at Brasenose at roughly the same time David Cameron studied PPE at Brasenose. What are the chances?
    You miss the point. It does not matter who is the unqualified inquisitor in this or any other particular instance. There is an abundance of data which can and should be analysed to inform and guide policy. We should no longer be reliant on old school friends of David Cameron or Tony Blair.
    That's an even cheaper point. It does you no credit.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Earlier this year I'm sure it was reported global warming had pushed the Gulfstream lower, and that's why we had such cold temperatures.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,341
    A general statistical point, irrespective of whether one thinks the NHS in general is wonderful or terrible: it is unsound to look at the the tail-end of any distribution for a single period (e.g. a year). There will always be 10 (or 15 or 20) hospitals which are "worst" in any given year, and that proves nothing whatever. What should set alarm signals ringing urgently is if the same hospitals repeatedly appear in the "worst" category in say 3 successive measurements.

    Too many commentators seem keen to extrapolate from which hospital is currently worst to prove whatever they want about the whole system. To disagree with that is not to say that bad practice should be overlooked or ignored. There does seem to be a reasonable case being made that weekend treatment is worse, with the proviso that it may be that patients who seek weekend treatment are different - that needs to be investigated. But saying that "if the worst 13 hospitals were as good as the average we'd save N lives" is statistically misleading (in the same way as saying that "if low-IQ people were as bright as average the average would increase") unless the same hospitals recur in the bottom 13 in repeated years.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756

    Earlier this year I'm sure it was reported global warming had pushed the Gulfstream lower, and that's why we had such cold temperatures.

    Latest research says there's this phenomenon known as " The Weather " which changes a lot and can therefore be a bit unpredictable.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    As you must have figured I am a hospital specialist, and am far from an unconditional supporter of the NHS and how it is run.

    A lot of the problems are not specific to the NHS though. Private contactors have their targets too. The dumbing down of UK medical training would affect any UK health care system.

    In addition British people have got very used to healthcare being free at the point of use. That is very hard to change, and puts no brake on demand. We therefore ration access in ways that are in many ways even more unfair than finance, through the gatekeeper of GPs and their receptionists, through waiting lists, through the use of non professional staff on the phones of 911 and through impenetrable bureaucracy. The purpose is to make people give up. The articulate middle class navigate the system and the inarticulate, the poorly educated, the bewildered elderly and those intimidated by the system get second rate care, if they get any at all.


    Well, I've worked all my life in the private sector and am not related to any doctors, nurses, or any other health professionals. And I think you will find, if you look very closely at this thread and others, it is generally those who defend the NHS who are calling for proper data collection and analysis and, in your words, decency and logic.

    Thanks,

    I have worked for the NHS - data systems that have even included the waste that was EDS - so I have come to the conclusion that decency and logic are well-down-the-list. [One HNS Trust in London learnt a very expensive lesson about IT: Cronie-Blair, however, was just treated in the manner of a Hammersmith/Chelsea gangsta' - boolakah!]

    I have also had a very interesting time fixing Cancer-cell research systems for the MRC. [Sorry Professor Davy.] My experiences within the NHS environment would justify the kind of bigotry that the Duchess-of-Peckham, 'Arriet - does my armour-plate make me look flat - 'Ardbint enforced upon England in 2010.

    Thankfully, life moves on. Gawd bless The Netherlands....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Blasphemy, Mr. Brooke!
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756

    Blasphemy, Mr. Brooke!

    Forecasting - massive computer model or a bit of seaweed - you decide.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Earlier this year I'm sure it was reported global warming had pushed the Gulfstream lower, and that's why we had such cold temperatures.

    It's very strange that a *scientific* issue has become a religion for some = full of certainties that can't be proven either way but extract vast sums of money to prove the Sun goes round the Earth as its the acceptable opinion.

    I assume its because Greenies took it over and like nothing better than forecasting The End Is Nigh unless we do whatever their buzz killing policy is [I exempt @Neil from this slur as he's said he not much of a tree-hugger at all but a lefty].
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,990

    Earlier this year I'm sure it was reported global warming had pushed the Gulfstream lower, and that's why we had such cold temperatures.

    MD, do we know who spouted the porkie, they just talk through a hole in their ar*** and hope people are bemused by the fancy words. Couple of days of sunshine and it is classed a heatwave.
    Last week we had teh rail system in Scotland knackered due to the sun, you could not make it up , we have had no summer for years , these people are barking or hustling.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fair point Nick, but the telegraph article is clear that these hospitals are consistently below average year after year, though still passed by the CQC.

    It is not just statistical noise like poll leads.

    A general statistical point, irrespective of whether one thinks the NHS in general is wonderful or terrible: it is unsound to look at the the tail-end of any distribution for a single period (e.g. a year). There will always be 10 (or 15 or 20) hospitals which are "worst" in any given year, and that proves nothing whatever. What should set alarm signals ringing urgently is if the same hospitals repeatedly appear in the "worst" category in say 3 successive measurements.

    Too many commentators seem keen to extrapolate from which hospital is currently worst to prove whatever they want about the whole system. To disagree with that is not to say that bad practice should be overlooked or ignored. There does seem to be a reasonable case being made that weekend treatment is worse, with the proviso that it may be that patients who seek weekend treatment are different - that needs to be investigated. But saying that "if the worst 13 hospitals were as good as the average we'd save N lives" is statistically misleading (in the same way as saying that "if low-IQ people were as bright as average the average would increase") unless the same hospitals recur in the bottom 13 in repeated years.

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    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,011
    @NickPalmer

    But if we work to improve the bottom 13 hospitals so they are as good as the average, we'll have increased the average.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Brooke, the forecasts of the adherents of Warmor, God of Warming, have proven true time and again.

    Why, I can scarcely remember the last time I saw snow.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

    http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47061000/jpg/_47061196_greatbritainjpg.jpg
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @FoxInSoxUK

    IIRC you are considering voting LD at GE2015 - does the party's low polling influence how you may vote?

    I'm just wondering if the LDs will suffer from 'pointless vote syndrome' again if they aren't seen as being a force for much. Kippers certainly have the momentum now as the NOTA Party.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Miss Plato, there's a loose alliance of anti-capitalists, greenists, politicians (bulletproof reason for taxing), and people taken along with the tide of coverage.

    Indeed, Mr. G. Mr. T's Telegraph blog was spot on: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100222487/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-we-have-to-trust-our-scientists-because-they-know-lots-of-big-scary-words/
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    Burnham just sounding desperate on Sky, trying to bluster it out.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    @DecrepitJohnL

    Interesting. What was the reason for the inverse correlation?

    Some say overtreatment. It may just be that patients are not good judges of their own best interests.

    Here is a link to Forbes.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kaifalkenberg/2013/01/02/why-rating-your-doctor-is-bad-for-your-health/



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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,341
    John L, fox: absolutely - if the same hospitals keep turning up at the bottom then immediate investigation is needed. There will occasionally be a good explanation relating to type of patient intake, but just hoping for the best isn't acceptable at all.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Miss Plato, there's a loose alliance of anti-capitalists, greenists, politicians (bulletproof reason for taxing), and people taken along with the tide of coverage.

    Indeed, Mr. G. Mr. T's Telegraph blog was spot on: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100222487/when-it-comes-to-climate-change-we-have-to-trust-our-scientists-because-they-know-lots-of-big-scary-words/

    That was very funny - @SeanT does pidgin very well.

    There was a Times review comment of the new Lone Ranger movie [apparently it sucks] that used the same sort of lingo...

    "Movie go way far off reservation. Studio in heap big trouble. Loose mega big wampum."

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Anyone listening in utter desperation to the cricket?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I live in a safe seat. It matters little who I vote for. There are only 2 seats in Leicestershire (NW Leics and Loughborough) that have any chance of changing hands. Both are Tory held at present.

    I will probably waste my vote on the LD candidate though. Indeed I am thinking of joining the party so as to have a say in the next leader.I am at heart an Orange booker, though have strayed to both Cameronism and Blairism in the past, returning home to the LDs when they turn out to be false idols.

    It has crossed my mind to join all the parties to have a vote for the next leader, electorates are getting so small that entryism is not just a Falkirk phenomenon. It may provide me with some amusement.

    Best get on with that garden now, as BBQ tonight.
    Plato said:

    @FoxInSoxUK

    IIRC you are considering voting LD at GE2015 - does the party's low polling influence how you may vote?

    I'm just wondering if the LDs will suffer from 'pointless vote syndrome' again if they aren't seen as being a force for much. Kippers certainly have the momentum now as the NOTA Party.

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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Alanbrooke

    'Burnham just sounding desperate on Sky, trying to bluster it out.'

    I thought he was going to start blubbing.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I ssee the LDs are squeaky clean again

    GoodnightVienna @CallingEngland
    Ministry of Sound founder, James Palumbo, who gave £500k to the LibDems to enter House of Lords dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2…
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Can't see Finn playing for England again for quite a while. But to blow it like this is a team effort. It's like watching Spurs.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    RobD said:

    Anyone listening in utter desperation to the cricket?

    Yes but not in desperation, Aussies want 22 with one wicket left.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    john_zims said:

    @Alanbrooke

    'Burnham just sounding desperate on Sky, trying to bluster it out.'

    I thought he was going to start blubbing.

    He really lost his cool - whatever one thinks of his complicity or otherwise, for the casual watcher he came across very badly, defensive and reminded me of Tony Hayward from BP moaning about 'wanting his life back' after 13 died at DW Horizon.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Financier said:

    RobD said:

    Anyone listening in utter desperation to the cricket?

    Yes but not in desperation, Aussies want 22 with one wicket left.
    Well they wanted 60 from 1 not that long ago ;)
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    If 2010 LDs conclude that their vote is pointless in their constituencies then they are more likely to switch to LAB which is the last thing that CON wants.

    The yellows will be fighting the election in 70 seats. In the rest they don't care what the outcome is and I envisage a lot of lost deposits.



    Plato said:

    @FoxInSoxUK

    IIRC you are considering voting LD at GE2015 - does the party's low polling influence how you may vote?

    I'm just wondering if the LDs will suffer from 'pointless vote syndrome' again if they aren't seen as being a force for much. Kippers certainly have the momentum now as the NOTA Party.

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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Gawd. This Test match is so gripping.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    RobD said:

    Financier said:

    RobD said:

    Anyone listening in utter desperation to the cricket?

    Yes but not in desperation, Aussies want 22 with one wicket left.
    Well they wanted 60 from 1 not that long ago ;)

    It was 80!

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Gawd. This Test match is so gripping.

    I just can't see how you have it in you to talk about 2010 LDs!

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    The yellows will be fighting the election in 70 seats.

    I wonder how many seats the purples will try to fight. I suspect more than is good for them.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002
    edited July 2013

    If 2010 LDs conclude that their vote is pointless in their constituencies then they are more likely to switch to LAB which is the last thing that CON wants.

    The yellows will be fighting the election in 70 seats. In the rest they don't care what the outcome is and I envisage a lot of lost deposits.





    Plato said:

    @FoxInSoxUK

    IIRC you are considering voting LD at GE2015 - does the party's low polling influence how you may vote?

    I'm just wondering if the LDs will suffer from 'pointless vote syndrome' again if they aren't seen as being a force for much. Kippers certainly have the momentum now as the NOTA Party.

    As someone in what is probably a hopeless seat for the LD's, although it was a second place last time (50, 25 23 plus bits) that suggests I shouldn't even "bother" to vote.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    AveryLP said:

    Gawd. This Test match is so gripping.

    I just can't see how you have it in you to talk about 2010 LDs!

    Everything is bad for the Tories - if voters don't choose LDs its bad, if they choose LDs its bad, if they choose Kippers its bad, if they choose Labour its bad...

    I'm amazed Cameron hasn't slashed his wrists!
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    As someone in what is probably a hopeless seat for the LD's, although it was a second place last time (50, 25 23 plus bits) that suggests I shouldn't even "bother" to vote.

    You can vote - it just wont count.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Plato said:

    AveryLP said:

    Gawd. This Test match is so gripping.

    I just can't see how you have it in you to talk about 2010 LDs!

    Everything is bad for the Tories - if voters don't choose LDs its bad, if they choose LDs its bad, if they choose Kippers its bad, if they choose Labour its bad...

    I'm amazed Cameron hasn't slashed his wrists!
    If the Aussies hit twenty more runs, I'll slash my wrists, Plato!

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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Its lunch - 20 needed with one wicket- Aussies have all afternoon to get them as long as they do not lose concentration after lunch.

    Speaking of lunch, here on the sandy beach just beneath the dunes, my lunch has arrived. Couple of barely-there dressed young ladies have brought the picnic basket and the chilled champagne. Cheers!
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @AveryLP

    You need to borrow an Irish player or two to shore up the squad. I hope the cricket ends before the peleton gets to Mont Ventoux!
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Greenwich & Woolwich Labour selection confirmed as Open this week. Len Duvall already launched his website. http://www.len4gw.com/
    Cllr Pennybook also declared. http://matthewpennycook.org.uk/
    I guess we could see David Prescott too.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    RobD said:

    Anyone listening in utter desperation to the cricket?

    England entered this test in a ramshackled way - giving wickets away at speed - and they are ending the test in the same ramshackled way - giving away runs at speed.

    What we need is for Jimmy to come on after lunch and finish the last wicket off - at speed.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    Carola said:

    School places crisis sorted:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/14/primary-school-admissions-code-change-confusion?CMP=twt_gu

    On that note off to prep to go play a 'Kubb' tournament (with picnic and Pimms, obv).

    If you've never seen/played it highly recommended for friend and family sunshine fun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ELBTr8jI8

    From your link:

    St Mark's told Jarman it offers only part-time provision for children in Eibhlís's position in their first term: three hours a day in the morning or afternoon, switching halfway through the term.

    When Jarman said this was an impossible arrangement, given her work commitments, she was advised to look for another school.


    Now, I am sure there is more to the story than is reported, but it appears that she wanted special treatment. When this was refused she intends to sue. A sense of entitlement?
    Full time education does rather seem a step too far for those who don't choose to pay a prep school
    If you read the article...

    The school only offers part time. She was told she would need to send her kid to another school if she wanted full time.

    But that wasn't good enough.

    She wanted it. She wanted it now. Screw everyone else. Her needs were most important.
  • Options
    PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 661
    new thread
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited July 2013
    Plato said:

    @FoxInSoxUK

    IIRC you are considering voting LD at GE2015 - does the party's low polling influence how you may vote?

    I'm just wondering if the LDs will suffer from 'pointless vote syndrome' again if they aren't seen as being a force for much. Kippers certainly have the momentum now as the NOTA Party.


    Why is a "serial labour voter" like you spending all her days spinning ineptly for Cameron?

    I hate to break it to you but official conservative policy is that climate change is very real and needs tackling while Cammie and the tory leadership want to stay IN Europe.

    Like so many of the PB tories you are far closer to the kippers and NF than Cammie on such huge issues yet you try to mock Farage and his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists"?

    Laughable indeed.

    Who do you suppose Cammie's incompetent chumocracy were talking about when they decried the swivel-eyed loons in the tory party?

    Golly gumdrops! ;^ )
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited July 2013
    wrong thread!
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