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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As WH2016 moves into the final straight: The PB/Polling Matter

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    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    RCP now has Clinton leading 273-265 in the Electoral College.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    edited November 2016
    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Incredibly informative ad buy infograhpic

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-tv-ads/

    Clinton spending nothing in Colorado or Virginia
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...
    I thnk it is important to realise that Clinton is much more popular outside the USA than within the USA - so that during the night money is going to flow on her, which will probably be offsett as America wakes up. (91% of bets on Trump ffs).

    In the meantime on the LA times poll, Trump hits his highest level of support (but not largest margin as Clinton is above her lowest). That will push the probability of Trump winning a bit higher on 538. A margin of 5.4 will either be 'tie' or Trump +1 after being adjusted.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2016

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 250-up: 13.5-17.5
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Alistair said:

    Incredibly informative ad buy infograhpic

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-tv-ads/

    Clinton spending nothing in Colorado or Virginia

    Virginia stays blue even in a Trump landslide, that's why :)
    Colorado perhaps a bit complacement imo.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 25-up: 13.5-17.5
    Those Trump 25 ups look tasty :)
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    Pulpstar said:

    Barnesian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TOPPING said:

    off topic

    I think the 6/4 LDs in Richmond is good value.

    where's that available?

    Edit to add: lots of places I see...
    Really ?

    With Zac 26 points ahead in the only poll ?
    LDs throwing a lot, and I mean a lot at it.
    Isn't there a limit on election expenses?
    Focus leaflets aren't that expensive to print. That's the only cost.
    The limit for byelections is £100,000.

    This covers not only leaflets but rental of office space, paid for deliveries, advertising and much more.

    Zac may find it easier to raise the money but harder to keep within the limit as he may have to pay for data and paid or posted deliveries as he won't have as many volunteers.
    I expect Zac's spend will be close to the £100k limit.
    I wonder if the Lib Dem candidate realised a by-election was going to cost her some money eg unpaid time off work at the National Physical Laboratory.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    weejonnie said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Opinion Today
    Washington Post-ABC Tracking Poll finds race tied, as Trump opens up an 8-point edge on honesty (@sfcpoll @emgusk) https://t.co/Mj69Q9ULp4

    Crooked Hillary coming back into fashion.
    Whatever one thinks of Trump - he does have a knack for spotting a problem months ahead of the game. He called the Weiner/Huma problem over a year ago and said it again in July. He's done it again and again. His instincts are sound. Crooked Hillary is the perfect epithet - and the electorate can hang any behaviour they disapprove of on it.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''A five year restriction on immigrants claiming benefits, as is happening in Germany, would meaningfully reduce low-skilled immigration (from everywhere). ''

    You boys really, really do not understand, do you?? How many times do I have to repeat it. Voters want control of immigration, because they have seen its massive power in changing countries in ways politicians could not dream of otherwise. They want that power for themselves.

    That is why UKIP is still on 12%. A deal like the one you mention that doubles their share. The people who have seen the sharp end of immigration, like the Bradford article shows, are driving the bus. And they will get to their destination, whatever scraps the elite offer them to keep control of this power.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Incredibly informative ad buy infograhpic

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-tv-ads/

    Clinton spending nothing in Colorado or Virginia

    Virginia stays blue even in a Trump landslide, that's why :)
    Colorado perhaps a bit complacement imo.
    The Clinton campaign basically closed down their Colorado operation weeks ago. It's either hubris on a massive scale or really good analytics.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 25-up: 13.5-17.5
    The Trump 250 up looks quite tempting...
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Scott_P said:

    But deals like CETA assume that (for example) the UK will adhere to all EU rules, for example on product safety. Grandfathering would surely mean that we don't change anything relevant to the treaty, so the Leaver fantasy of 'sovereignty' in trade would fall by the wayside. Whilst in practice I suspect that is what we'll do, we might as well stay in the customs union while we're about it.

    @MSmithsonPB: .@Yokeronian @JolyonMaugham Looks it'll be
    Stay single market
    Continue paying £££ > Brussels
    Cosmetic changes on freedom of movement
    No say

    @thomasknox: @MSmithsonPB @gt_carter @JolyonMaugham I think Mike is right, but govt will use semantics to disguise it: call single market something else
    To claim that the UK would have no say in the single market is incorrect. Same old tired arguments being used.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Just bought the Trump 250 Ups.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    DP Guess the Year - 1985.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    taffys said:

    ''A five year restriction on immigrants claiming benefits, as is happening in Germany, would meaningfully reduce low-skilled immigration (from everywhere). ''

    You boys really, really do not understand, do you?? How many times do I have to repeat it. Voters want control of immigration, because they have seen its massive power in changing countries in ways politicians could not dream of otherwise. They want that power for themselves.

    That is why UKIP is still on 12%. A deal like the one you mention that doubles their share. The people who have seen the sharp end of immigration, like the Bradford article shows, are driving the bus. And they will get to their destination, whatever scraps the elite offer them to keep control of this power.

    Voters want lower levels of immigration, and specifically lower levels of low skilled immigration.

    Voters want effect.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Alistair said:

    JackW said:
    I can't square that with the national picture. If Clinton is leading Independents at all then this race is not only over it's a blow out.
    That's a tiny sample for a national poll.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    It is actually 5.4%!
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    rcs1000 said:

    Just bought the Trump 250 Ups.

    ... so the price has bumped by a point to 14.5-18.5
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 25-up: 13.5-17.5
    Those Trump 25 ups look tasty :)
    It's an option, where the implied vol is too low.

    Buy.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    rcs1000 said:

    Just bought the Trump 250 Ups.

    The last pronouncement on your betting position that I can remember was laying Hillary (When she was evens !)

    Just how deep are you against Killary now :D ?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''A five year restriction on immigrants claiming benefits, as is happening in Germany, would meaningfully reduce low-skilled immigration (from everywhere). ''

    You boys really, really do not understand, do you?? How many times do I have to repeat it. Voters want control of immigration, because they have seen its massive power in changing countries in ways politicians could not dream of otherwise. They want that power for themselves.

    That is why UKIP is still on 12%. A deal like the one you mention that doubles their share. The people who have seen the sharp end of immigration, like the Bradford article shows, are driving the bus. And they will get to their destination, whatever scraps the elite offer them to keep control of this power.

    Voters want lower levels of immigration, and specifically lower levels of low skilled immigration.

    Voters want effect.
    Which is why the Tory Leave campaign was so deceitful. People don't care who's in control as long as they get the result they want.
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    Pulpstar said:


    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...

    The impressive thing about the serious punters here isn't just that they're right more than they're wrong, although they are, it's the speed and grace with which they reverse themselves when the evidence changes.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    justin124 said:

    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    It is actually 5.4%!
    RCP is recording it as a +6. (If that's the way they round perhaps we shouldn't trust their figures. :) )
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    Pulpstar said:

    Those Trump 25 ups look tasty :)

    Yes, that would have been very tasty!
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Looking at Florida - last results show that 2000 more republican voters sent in mail than Democrats - but the change in the number of early voters was virtually identical.

    (declared republicans still 17500 ahead of declared democrats.)
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Voters want effect.

    I think that's wrong. But let's see.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Just bought the Trump 250 Ups.

    The last pronouncement on your betting position that I can remember was laying Hillary (When she was evens !)

    Just how deep are you against Killary now :D ?
    Not very. Like with the Brexit vote I expect most of my betting will be between 12am and 4am. I hope it will be every bit as profitable,

    (I have my eyes on a Microsoft HoloLens)
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    There's been quite a lot of talk about Orgreave lately. I have to say as a leftie of sorts I thought this article was excellent. As someone who knows little about those events it would be nice to see the other side put aswell.

    http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/paul-t-horgan-the-left-denies-it-but-two-sides-fought-at-orgreave/

    It also brought to my mind the current divisions within the Labour party. On one side those who think of it as a painful and embarrassing episode and perhaps like one of those things in our youth when we did regrettable things. And on the other side those who see it as one of the great injustices of modern times, proof of how the establihment - particularly Tory - will always conspire against working people and their interests. A video to be played on epeat until everyone finally gets the message. Needless to say these two sides cannot reconciled.
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    never trust a former chief whip
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    weejonnie said:

    Looking at Florida - last results show that 2000 more republican voters sent in mail than Democrats - but the change in the number of early voters was virtually identical.

    (declared republicans still 17500 ahead of declared democrats.)

    It's all about the NPA.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,003
    edited November 2016

    Pulpstar said:


    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...

    The impressive thing about the serious punters here isn't just that they're right more than they're wrong, although they are, it's the speed and grace with which they reverse themselves when the evidence changes.
    Let me tell you a story about George Soros.

    One day George Soros was arguing with one his senior fund managers about the direction of US long rates. Soros thought they would go higher, while his colleague thought they would go lower. They argues long and loundly about this. Voices were raised. It ended with Soros calling his colleague an idiot.

    That afternoon, at the weekly partners meeting, Soros got up and told everyone that he had bought half a billion dollars of long dated US treasuries as he now expected long dated yields to fall.

    The colleague was astonished and after the meeting went up to George Soros and said "but I thought you thought that rates were going up". Soros said "well, after you'd gone I thought about what you said, and I realised you were right."

    That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.

    Ironically, willngness to change ones mind is a characteristic we actively discourage in politicians, on the basis that it shows 'flip flopping'.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    If no-one gets a majority of "projected" (© Betfair) EC votes on 8 Nov, what might the market then look like? Assume the Republicans win a majority of states in the HoR.

    Case 1: Trump wins Utah; Clinton 269, Trump 269

    Pence needs only 1 EC vote for his name to go to the HoR conclave.

    Trump 1.5
    Pence 3
    Clinton 500

    Case 2: McMullin wins Utah: Clinton 263-269, Trump 269-263, McMullin 6

    McMullin is now a player. If he keeps hold of his 6 votes, Pence needs 7; if he hands over 4, that will be sufficient for Pence's name to go through.

    Trump 1.66
    Pence 2.7
    McMullin 40
    Clinton 500
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited November 2016
    Alistair said:

    weejonnie said:

    Looking at Florida - last results show that 2000 more republican voters sent in mail than Democrats - but the change in the number of early voters was virtually identical.

    (declared republicans still 17500 ahead of declared democrats.)

    It's all about the NPA.
    Yep - but looking at how the Ds and Rs are voting could give an idea as to whether R-voting or D-voting NPAs are coming out, since presumably their enthusiasm is going to be relatively similar. If the NPAs are Hispanic D voters then that is one thing, if they are WWC R voters then that is another. (I can't imagine 28% R registered are voting D UNLESS they switched to or registered R for the primaries.)

    Absent any further knowledge we have to assume 100% Rs are voting R and vice versa - i.e. R-D and D-R voting is cancelling out.

    Oh - and on the 538 website - although the gap is 3+% Trump is polling at his highest average for the campaign.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.''

    Maybe but Soros had the good grace to admit his mistake.

    Mea culpas on here are rare as hen's teeth, and some of the people who got things spectacularly wrong over the past two years still expect the right to be taken as seriously as ever.

    Imagine Alistair Meeks or Scott using the phrase 'I realised you were right'

    Hardly.
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    Dromedary said:

    If no-one gets a majority of "projected" (© Betfair) EC votes on 8 Nov, what might the market then look like? Assume the Republicans win a majority of states in the HoR.

    Case 1: Trump wins Utah; Clinton 269, Trump 269

    Pence needs only 1 EC vote for his name to go to the HoR conclave.

    Trump 1.5
    Pence 3
    Clinton 500

    Case 2: McMullin wins Utah: Clinton 263-269, Trump 269-263, McMullin 6

    McMullin is now a player. If he keeps hold of his 6 votes, Pence needs 7; if he hands over 4, that will be sufficient for Pence's name to go through.

    Trump 1.66
    Pence 2.7
    McMullin 40
    Clinton 500

    Imagine the state of the stock market/FOREX if this is happening on 9th November.
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    taffys said:

    ''That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.''

    Maybe but Soros had the good grace to admit his mistake.

    Mea culpas on here are rare as hen's teeth, and some of the people who got things spectacularly wrong over the past two years still expect the right to be taken as seriously as ever.

    Imagine Alistair Meeks or Scott using the phrase 'I realised you were right'

    Hardly.

    Well I have been predicting a Clinton landslide for a few weeks, so I am going to be pretty embarrassed the way things are going. The FBI found a black swan lying around in their back cupboard.

    I shall await the result before doing my walk of shame though.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 25-up: 13.5-17.5
    Those Trump 25 ups look tasty :)
    It's an option, where the implied vol is too low.

    Buy.
    Fair values according to the current 538 polls-only model are:

    Clinton 250-up 60.4 Clinton 270-up 45.4 Clinton 300-up 27.0 Clinton 330-up 13.7 Trump 250-up 20.0 Trump 270-up 12.9 Trump 300-up 6.1 Trump 330-up 2.4
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2016
    taffys said:

    Mea culpas on here are rare as hen's teeth, and some of the people who got things spectacularly wrong over the past two years still expect the right to be taken as seriously as ever.

    Imagine Alistair Meeks or Scott using the phrase 'I realised you were right'

    Hardly.

    A Brexiteer admitting they were wrong is one of the signs of the end of days...
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864
    Afternoon all :)

    As a lot of people on here seem to think, hope and want Donald Trump to be the next POTUS, what would his election mean for the UK and the rest of the world ?

    Wearing my alternate history hat, I was musing on a post-1945 world where, instead of ideological confrontation, the US and USSR had agreed on mutual co-operation and had effectively divided the world between them. As sole custodians of nuclear weapons (no proliferation) they would guarantee each other's security and their own.

    The Communist economy would be propped up by the capitalist west and oil would be controlled by the US-Soviet domination of the Middle East.

    Unfortunately, that's counterfactual fantasy but the truth is relations between Washington and Moscow have rarely been good (apart from when both fighting common enemies from late 1941 to 1945 and sometimes not even then). Will Trump try to rewrite that history and work with Putin against the twin scourges of Islamic fundamentalism and the rise of an economically powerful China ?

    I'm sure Theresa May will be properly feted when she visits Trump's White House but apart from support for her post-Brexit deal and the carrot of a lucrative trade deal, what will a Trump administration mean for the UK ?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:


    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...

    The impressive thing about the serious punters here isn't just that they're right more than they're wrong, although they are, it's the speed and grace with which they reverse themselves when the evidence changes.
    Let me tell you a story about George Soros.

    One day George Soros was arguing with one his senior fund managers about the direction of US long rates. Soros thought they would go higher, while his colleague thought they would go lower. They argues long and loundly about this. Voices were raised. It ended with Soros calling his colleague an idiot.

    That afternoon, at the weekly partners meeting, Soros got up and told everyone that he had bought half a billion dollars of long dated US treasuries as he now expected long dated yields to fall.

    The colleague was astonished and after the meeting went up to George Soros and said "but I thought you thought that rates were going up". Soros said "well, after you'd gone I thought about what you said, and I realised you were right."

    That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.

    Ironically, willngness to change ones mind is a characteristic we actively discourage in politicians, on the basis that it shows 'flip flopping'.
    I used to work with a Prof, with whom I would argue case management quite fiercely. He respected someone who stood their ground and argued their case. You had to be very sure of your ground though, because if you were in the wrong...

    This was interesting via Bloomberg:

    Bloomberg - Clinton Leads Trump With Independents: Bloomberg Poll http://bloom.bg/2fDL5vQ
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Incredibly informative ad buy infograhpic

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-tv-ads/

    Clinton spending nothing in Colorado or Virginia

    Virginia stays blue even in a Trump landslide, that's why :)
    Colorado perhaps a bit complacement imo.
    CO demographics are horrible for Trump, if he was close there he would have swept most of the swing states.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:


    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...

    The impressive thing about the serious punters here isn't just that they're right more than they're wrong, although they are, it's the speed and grace with which they reverse themselves when the evidence changes.
    Let me tell you a story about George Soros.

    One day George Soros was arguing with one his senior fund managers about the direction of US long rates. Soros thought they would go higher, while his colleague thought they would go lower. They argues long and loundly about this. Voices were raised. It ended with Soros calling his colleague an idiot.

    That afternoon, at the weekly partners meeting, Soros got up and told everyone that he had bought half a billion dollars of long dated US treasuries as he now expected long dated yields to fall.

    The colleague was astonished and after the meeting went up to George Soros and said "but I thought you thought that rates were going up". Soros said "well, after you'd gone I thought about what you said, and I realised you were right."

    That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.

    Ironically, willngness to change ones mind is a characteristic we actively discourage in politicians, on the basis that it shows 'flip flopping'.
    I used to work with a Prof, with whom I would argue case management quite fiercely. He respected someone who stood their ground and argued their case. You had to be very sure of your ground though, because if you were in the wrong...

    This was interesting via Bloomberg:

    Bloomberg - Clinton Leads Trump With Independents: Bloomberg Poll http://bloom.bg/2fDL5vQ
    Marvellous.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...
    Quite correct - the landscape has changed out of all recognition over the past 5 or 6 days. I suppose I have to be thankful for small mercies in having bought illary in small parcels as her price has tumbled - I'm still feeling uncomfortable right now though. I'll be lucky to get through this without a good ducking and I probably need a couple of my longshots to come good to save my bacon.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    stodge said:

    I'm sure Theresa May will be properly feted when she visits Trump's White House but apart from support for her post-Brexit deal and the carrot of a lucrative trade deal, what will a Trump administration mean for the UK ?

    It will mean the intellectual death of internationalist Brexitism as people realise that there is no pax-Americana safety net outside the EU.
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    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    As a lot of people on here seem to think, hope and want Donald Trump to be the next POTUS, what would his election mean for the UK and the rest of the world ?

    Wearing my alternate history hat, I was musing on a post-1945 world where, instead of ideological confrontation, the US and USSR had agreed on mutual co-operation and had effectively divided the world between them. As sole custodians of nuclear weapons (no proliferation) they would guarantee each other's security and their own.

    The Communist economy would be propped up by the capitalist west and oil would be controlled by the US-Soviet domination of the Middle East.

    Unfortunately, that's counterfactual fantasy but the truth is relations between Washington and Moscow have rarely been good (apart from when both fighting common enemies from late 1941 to 1945 and sometimes not even then). Will Trump try to rewrite that history and work with Putin against the twin scourges of Islamic fundamentalism and the rise of an economically powerful China ?

    I'm sure Theresa May will be properly feted when she visits Trump's White House but apart from support for her post-Brexit deal and the carrot of a lucrative trade deal, what will a Trump administration mean for the UK ?

    We would have no idea from one week to the next what POTUS policy was. Trump will just react to one perceived slight after another. The Chiefs of Staff must be panicking like mad.
  • Options

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sporting have this morning once again sharply revised downwards their spread for Hillary's ECVs (compared with last night's spreads) and increased The Donald's accordingly::

    Clinton ...... 287 - 302 (-8)

    Trump ...... 234 - 249 (+8)

    It's still zzzzz... time in the US so new new polls expected for an hour or two.

    Spreadex have also woken up at last, again with fairly different prices:

    Clinton 297-309
    Trump 228-240
    Clinton 250-ups: 60-70
    Trump 25-up: 13.5-17.5
    Those Trump 25 ups look tasty :)
    It's an option, where the implied vol is too low.

    Buy.
    Fair values according to the current 538 polls-only model are:

    Clinton 250-up 60.4 Clinton 270-up 45.4 Clinton 300-up 27.0 Clinton 330-up 13.7 Trump 250-up 20.0 Trump 270-up 12.9 Trump 300-up 6.1 Trump 330-up 2.4
    Of course 538 is the most aggressive on Trump's chances, because they anticipate more volatility (now mostly in that the polls might be wrong).

    FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with them; some of the other models take polling numbers [however averaged] with far too much trust. For example, HuffPo's Senate model is hilariously tight: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/forecast/senate
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''A Brexiteer admitting they were wrong is one of the signs of the end of days...''

    Maybe you have a point. Personally I think any form of Brexit is far from ideal, but its still better than our previous direction of travel.

    I have no problem with immigration myself, but then I'm not one of the white people who moved out of Blackburn, Newham et al, as the Guardian article recounts.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Just to double check, you don't need to settle up any liabilities with the spread firms pre-election so long as you're within credit limits... ?
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    Mr. Glenn, are you concerned we'll be invaded by the EU or the Russians?
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    taffys said:

    ''That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.''

    Maybe but Soros had the good grace to admit his mistake.

    Mea culpas on here are rare as hen's teeth, and some of the people who got things spectacularly wrong over the past two years still expect the right to be taken as seriously as ever.

    Imagine Alistair Meeks or Scott using the phrase 'I realised you were right'

    Hardly.

    I have admitted to many mistakes over the years. Your public apology is duly awaited.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2016

    Of course 538 is the most aggressive on Trump's chances, because they anticipate more volatility (now mostly in that the polls might be wrong).

    FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with them; some of the other models take polling numbers [however averaged] with far too much trust. For example, HuffPo's Senate model is hilariously tight: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2016/forecast/senate

    Yes, 538's probability distributions have long tails in both directions. HuffPost is as you say very narrow, the NYT model is between the two:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I have admitted to many mistakes over the years. Your public apology is duly awaited. ''

    I apologise!
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1
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    Pulpstar said:

    Just to double check, you don't need to settle up any liabilities with the spread firms pre-election so long as you're within credit limits... ?

    They might ask for a margin payment. It's entirely opaque how they calculate this.
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    The great advantage of having a rubbish F1 season [one bright spot aside] is winning the 2016 PB Apology Tournament :p
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2016
    Brexit court decision due 10am tomorrow

    When I may admit being wrong with a crisp £10 note...
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''A five year restriction on immigrants claiming benefits, as is happening in Germany, would meaningfully reduce low-skilled immigration (from everywhere). ''

    You boys really, really do not understand, do you?? How many times do I have to repeat it. Voters want control of immigration, because they have seen its massive power in changing countries in ways politicians could not dream of otherwise. They want that power for themselves.

    That is why UKIP is still on 12%. A deal like the one you mention that doubles their share. The people who have seen the sharp end of immigration, like the Bradford article shows, are driving the bus. And they will get to their destination, whatever scraps the elite offer them to keep control of this power.

    Voters want lower levels of immigration, and specifically lower levels of low skilled immigration.

    Voters want effect.
    Voters naturally would like the government to have control over its borders. It would be a much lower priority however if immigration levels were lower and they felt reasonably safe and secure.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    taffys said:

    Scott_P said:

    But deals like CETA assume that (for example) the UK will adhere to all EU rules, for example on product safety. Grandfathering would surely mean that we don't change anything relevant to the treaty, so the Leaver fantasy of 'sovereignty' in trade would fall by the wayside. Whilst in practice I suspect that is what we'll do, we might as well stay in the customs union while we're about it.

    @MSmithsonPB: .@Yokeronian @JolyonMaugham Looks it'll be
    Stay single market
    Continue paying £££ > Brussels
    Cosmetic changes on freedom of movement
    No say

    @thomasknox: @MSmithsonPB @gt_carter @JolyonMaugham I think Mike is right, but govt will use semantics to disguise it: call single market something else
    Mike is as wrong on this as he has been on most things since 2014. People want control of immigration.

    If they can;t get it via the tories, they will get it another way.

    Such as?

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    Mr. P, is that two or three weeks later than expected?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-02/german-economists-urge-eu-to-shun-brexit-taboos-to-keep-u-k-in

    The EU’s balance of power will shift against its more market-oriented members if the U.K. drops out, the German government’s council of economic advisers said, calling for “constructive negotiations” to keep Britain in the EU despite the Brexit referendum.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Jobabob said:

    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
    Will backfire, Clinton is struggling with AA voters, headlines like these might be what she needs.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Jobabob said:

    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
    I guess you dont know many black americans. If you do, try and intimidate one, go on. Give it a go.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723
    edited November 2016

    FF43 said:


    I rate Nate Silver's model highly but it is an aggregation. It describes the situation, probably accurately, that existed one to two weeks ago. When there's a move just before electron day as there is currently to Trump, his model may not catch up to the actual result.

    I couldn't find a good link explaining all of this but I think his model is a lot more aggressive than that, especially late in the campaign. It weighs new polls more heavily than old polls, and assumes states are correlated so even if there hasn't been any post-something-vague-to-do-with-emails-gate polling in a state it should move to reflect the polls in states where there has been polling.
    The full explanation of 538's models are here: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-users-guide-to-fivethirtyeights-2016-general-election-forecast/.

    Bear in mind it takes several days for poll data to be collected and published in addition to any trend analysis showing up in 538.

    The interesting thing about 538's models is that it sees each state as a separate but related election. So if there is a new poll in Pennsylavania, it says let's adjust Michigan as measured in previous polls there because it is demographically similar, but Colorado less so because the demographics are different.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can't see any meaningful changes in product standards, irrespective. All electronics, for example, are FCC, CE and UL certified, no matter where they are sold in the world.

    Well exactly. I got seriously flamed by some of the usual suspects for making that obvious point before the referendum.

    So, sorry guys, if you voted for Brexit in the hope of being able to buy a mega-powerful vacuum cleaner, you're set for a disappointment.
    I didn't vote for Brexit, but I'm sorry to hear that I won't be able to buy a decent powered vacuum in the coming years and decades :(
    I guess 'suck it up' is the obvious response!
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    The great advantage of having a rubbish F1 season [one bright spot aside] is winning the 2016 PB Apology Tournament :p

    "A rubbish season" with the longest odds winner, 250/1 no less, ever seen on PB.com? Come on Morris, let's have no more of this false modesty!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    6 days till payday :)
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    notme said:

    Jobabob said:

    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
    I guess you dont know many black americans. If you do, try and intimidate one, go on. Give it a go.
    This is all most entertaining.

    Time for this lady, me thinks. Bernie voter converted to Trump

    https://youtu.be/rDz7Co2pbJA
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    notme said:

    Jobabob said:

    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
    I guess you dont know many black americans. If you do, try and intimidate one, go on. Give it a go.
    Stereotyping much? Deary me.

    NOBODY should be intimidated when trying to vote.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    PlatoSaid said:

    notme said:

    Jobabob said:

    nunu said:

    Jon Ralston ‏@RalstonReports
    Big: Judge orders NV GOP/Trump and Trump campaign to appear in court and produce material to solicit poll watchers. https://www.scribd.com/document/329747608/NSDP-v-NVGOP-Boulware-Order-1


    There seems to be a move by the far-right/KKK to intimidate AA voters at polling booths, think this is where this is coming from.
    I guess you dont know many black americans. If you do, try and intimidate one, go on. Give it a go.
    This is all most entertaining.

    Time for this lady, me thinks. Bernie voter converted to Trump

    https://youtu.be/rDz7Co2pbJA
    Entertaining?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    felix said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I can't see any meaningful changes in product standards, irrespective. All electronics, for example, are FCC, CE and UL certified, no matter where they are sold in the world.

    Well exactly. I got seriously flamed by some of the usual suspects for making that obvious point before the referendum.

    So, sorry guys, if you voted for Brexit in the hope of being able to buy a mega-powerful vacuum cleaner, you're set for a disappointment.
    I didn't vote for Brexit, but I'm sorry to hear that I won't be able to buy a decent powered vacuum in the coming years and decades :(
    I guess 'suck it up' is the obvious response!
    Bravo!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    justin124 said:

    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    It is actually 5.4%!
    But it's from dead heat to 5.4% in a week. A dramatic looking divergence.

    I have to admit to not having a scoobie how this is now going to pan out. It still seems inconceivable on a gut level that Trump could win, but damn it, he is all they have if you REALLY don't like Hillary. And it seems a lot of people REALLY don't like HIllary.....
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Bono wins woman of the year award. Yes. That Bono of U2.

    Not been a good week for women, first the UN chooses a fictional one to represent them and now a man wins woman of the year award. What a time to be alive.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DeplorableMex4trump
    Exclusive: FBI investigating alleged illegal donor scheme tied to Dem Senate candidate https://t.co/eNQ6ulZqFs #wednesdaywisdom https://t.co/Oiqpkuq8EE
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    justin124 said:

    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    It is actually 5.4%!
    But it's from dead heat to 5.4% in a week. A dramatic looking divergence.

    I have to admit to not having a scoobie how this is now going to pan out. It still seems inconceivable on a gut level that Trump could win, but damn it, he is all they have if you REALLY don't like Hillary. And it seems a lot of people REALLY don't like HIllary.....
    Especially the FBI :)
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Seriously? Exclude Arab Christians. WTF

    Bruce Porter Jnr
    Arab list came with special note to exclude Christians – they had to be Muslim. 26 Wikileaks
    https://t.co/Ap86z9tspM https://t.co/q8SCO9T5CX
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    It's good to see that Spreadex are sticking with a still too big 12 point spread on their ECV market, compared with an altogether far too greedy 15 point spread introduced by Sporting, which frankly makes betting on this market all but unfeasible.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Bit confused by RCP's poll selection. They are only selecting 6 polls and Pew's Clinton +7 20-25 October isn't included whilst the Fox Clinton +5 22-25 October is.

    Adding Pew Shifts Average from Clinton +1.7 to +2.4
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Pulpstar said:

    justin124 said:

    The LA Times poll has Trump 6 points ahead!

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    It is actually 5.4%!
    But it's from dead heat to 5.4% in a week. A dramatic looking divergence.

    I have to admit to not having a scoobie how this is now going to pan out. It still seems inconceivable on a gut level that Trump could win, but damn it, he is all they have if you REALLY don't like Hillary. And it seems a lot of people REALLY don't like HIllary.....
    Especially the FBI :)
    Yeah... But going to war with the FBI has to be the weirdest final week Grid ever seen in a Presidential race!
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ABC Politics
    NEW: Clinton trails Trump among likely voters on honesty and trustworthiness in new @ABC News/WaPo tracking poll https://t.co/PQ97BYmHGf https://t.co/7g8zfs25Bq
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    Trump win probability with 538.com moves above 30% .....little more than a week ago it was 13%!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:


    I seem to remember the PB Cognosti advising a buy on Clinton at around 330+...

    The impressive thing about the serious punters here isn't just that they're right more than they're wrong, although they are, it's the speed and grace with which they reverse themselves when the evidence changes.
    Let me tell you a story about George Soros.

    One day George Soros was arguing with one his senior fund managers about the direction of US long rates. Soros thought they would go higher, while his colleague thought they would go lower. They argues long and loundly about this. Voices were raised. It ended with Soros calling his colleague an idiot.

    That afternoon, at the weekly partners meeting, Soros got up and told everyone that he had bought half a billion dollars of long dated US treasuries as he now expected long dated yields to fall.

    The colleague was astonished and after the meeting went up to George Soros and said "but I thought you thought that rates were going up". Soros said "well, after you'd gone I thought about what you said, and I realised you were right."

    That's the difference between a great trader and a crap one. You change your mind.

    Ironically, willngness to change ones mind is a characteristic we actively discourage in politicians, on the basis that it shows 'flip flopping'.
    The difference is that people like Soros surround themselves with people whom they trust to challenge his view. Politicians surround themselves with people who will unquestioningly agree with them. Guess who wins in the game of life?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    If Trump wins will Watchmen get a sequel :> ?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Trump win probability with 538.com moves above 30% .....little more than a week ago it was 13%!

    I honestly think he's going to pull it off. The polling is crap with D+ 8-10. If he was any other person, he wouldn't have such scorn - the MSN are so OTT and showing desperation. The NYT today had a nonsense piece about his business tax dealings from 1991 - when what he did was legal - IIRC, it took IRS until 2004 to close the loophole.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-02/german-economists-urge-eu-to-shun-brexit-taboos-to-keep-u-k-in

    The EU’s balance of power will shift against its more market-oriented members if the U.K. drops out, the German government’s council of economic advisers said, calling for “constructive negotiations” to keep Britain in the EU despite the Brexit referendum.

    The time for those comments was a year ago.
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    Mr. Putney, down seven stakes, more or less, in the weekend bets. It'll be the first red season since around 2011.

    The Verstappen bet was undoubtedly good but that and the Button bet are rare events due as much to luck (catching the news on Twitter in time for the bet) as anything else. My judgement at the last race was miles off, as it has been multiple times this season.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074
    PlatoSaid said:

    Trump win probability with 538.com moves above 30% .....little more than a week ago it was 13%!

    I honestly think he's going to pull it off. The polling is crap with D+ 8-10. If he was any other person, he wouldn't have such scorn - the MSN are so OTT and showing desperation. The NYT today had a nonsense piece about his business tax dealings from 1991 - when what he did was legal - IIRC, it took IRS until 2004 to close the loophole.
    At this point it's hard to see how the narrative will change. The only unknown is how the real prospect of President Trump affects turnout. In reality the effect is probably negligible as most people don't follow the day to day movements and moods of the campaigns.

    The failure of Clinton's campaign to pin something on Trump regarding Russia shows that the writing is on the wall.
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    Mr. Sandpit, they're trying to shut the stable door, but the horse is two fields away.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074

    Mr. Sandpit, they're trying to shut the stable door, but the horse is two fields away.

    Well not quite. The horse is looking at the door thinking, "That door's open... It would be nice to take a look around outside in a few months' time."
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    43 were arrested, charged or convicted over Watergate

    http://linkis.com/thegatewaypundit.com/WHA5R

    "FBI DOCUMENTS: Hillary Aide Cheryl Mills Orders Technicians to Delete Emails By Bleachbit

    The FBI released edited documents from their Clinton Email Investigation a few weeks ago.

    From the FBI website:

    Hillary Rodham Clinton served as U.S. Secretary of State from January 21, 2009 to February 1, 2013. The FBI conducted an investigation into allegations that classified information was improperly stored or transmitted on a personal e-mail server she used during her tenure.

    The FBI released the documents in four sections, linked below:

    In part 3 of their release the FBI reports on Cheryl Mills ordering technicians to delete emails by BleachBit.
    Page 24 of section 3:
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I believe there is a NEW THREAD
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    James O'Keefe
    BREAKING: Major @HillaryClinton Donor Inside Dem Fundraiser:Blacks Are “Seriously F***ed in The Head" https://t.co/gXlDctEmxu @DeborahRossNC

    Oh my word Video
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Trump win probability with 538.com moves above 30% .....little more than a week ago it was 13%!

    I honestly think he's going to pull it off. The polling is crap with D+ 8-10. If he was any other person, he wouldn't have such scorn - the MSN are so OTT and showing desperation. The NYT today had a nonsense piece about his business tax dealings from 1991 - when what he did was legal - IIRC, it took IRS until 2004 to close the loophole.
    At this point it's hard to see how the narrative will change. The only unknown is how the real prospect of President Trump affects turnout. In reality the effect is probably negligible as most people don't follow the day to day movements and moods of the campaigns.

    The failure of Clinton's campaign to pin something on Trump regarding Russia shows that the writing is on the wall.
    Americans are less fagged about Russians than they are about Climate Change. It's that much.

    That Hillary wheeled out gangster getaway driver moll Miss Universe to shame Trump for commenting on what beauty queens look like yesterday...

    I'm waiting for the DNC to drop a bombshell on Trump - and still nothing. She was in total unhinged rant mode when a single Bill Is A ********* protestor waved a placard.

    It was bizarre.

    http://nypost.com/2016/11/02/hillary-loses-her-cool-after-heckler-calls-bill-a-rapist/
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016
    .
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    619 said:
    No evidence of course that it was the same people who burned the church that wrote 'Vote Trump'.

    Indeed since it is likely that church supporters are more likely to be Trump supporters that it was Democrats that did it.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited November 2016
    James O'Keefe
    "@HillaryClinton ally compares black Republicans to Jews who aided Nazis in @PVeritas_Action video" https://t.co/IBJxbcqvMM @WashTimes

    And Erm

    Ent
    @JamesOKeefeIII @HillaryClinton @PVeritas_Action @WashTimes so basically to George Soros? That jew who helped the Nazis, you know.
This discussion has been closed.