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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Unless the betting is wildly wrong Paul Nuttall looks set to b

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,005
    Jobabob said:

    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.
    Well I suppose neither do you, and judging by previous emails there will probably be some marked with a mysterious 'C'. It was also trivialising it to suggest it was just "someone Hillary knew".
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    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    edited November 2016
    Also, if Brawn does replace Ecclestone, with Todt as FIA President one imagines they'd be as close as Mosley and Ecclestone were (Todt was Ferrari team principal when Brawn was chief technical officer).

    Edited extra bit: think I got the job descriptions right...
  • Options
    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    Jobabob said:

    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.
    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
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    JackW said:
    Pretty conclusive then that Rubio wasn't fit to be the candidate either.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132
    Y0kel said:

    Trump and the Russians , 2.

    Alfa Bank and the potentially strange transactional relationship and methods with the Trump Organisation

    Stuff seems to be floating to the surface at the moment. Proper stuff.

    Come out of that closet Bill
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Seth Stevenson of the "Slate" re-interviews a panel of 13 GOP voters, who had concerns about Trump becoming their nominee, to see who they will be voting for :

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/gop_voters_who_don_t_like_trump_reveal_their_votes.html

    Lifelong GOP supporter (now voting for Hillary): "Clinton basically trotted out the socialist manifesto. But the released WikiLeaks transcripts of her paid speeches were very comforting to me."

    I believe the tired and traditional PB cliche for moments like this is "heart of stone not to laugh etc"..
    The voters never fail to confound ....

    A "much chortling in the library moment" for me was some Jill Stein voters (Green candidate) moving to David Duke of KKK infamy .... :smiley:
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,237
    Blue_rog said:

    RobD said:
    They're all as bad as each other. No wonder trust in politicians and voter turnout are at an all time low.
    Well he's their man now. Any more egregious behaviour and I know where the fingers will point.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132

    Scott_P said:

    Y0kel said:

    Trump and the Russians , 2.

    Alfa Bank and the potentially strange transactional relationship and methods with the Trump Organisation

    Stuff seems to be floating to the surface at the moment. Proper stuff.

    Link?
    https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/793208373235871744
    Intriguing....
    Cuckoo, Hillary bricking it by looks of it
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,599

    Tim Montgomerie on the latest Keith Vaz lunacy:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/793208647853699072

    Quite right. If, in ten or twenty years time, we have a full-on Trump eruption here and the political establishment tries to appeal to reason, voters will be perfectly entitled to say "look what you did" and tell them to fuck right off.

    If you create a culture with no shame, then you forfeit not merely the right but the ability to call out shameless behaviour.

    I really don't get it; what's the justification for this?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:
    Pretty conclusive then that Rubio wasn't fit to be the candidate either.
    I'm surprised Rubio did that. Perfect ammunition for the Dems. New attack ad coming in 3 .. 2 .. 1 ...
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141
    JackW said:

    Pennsylvania - Franklin & Marshall - Sample 863 - 26-30 Oct

    Clinton 49 .. Trump 38

    http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/913809798323927231-f-m-poll-release-october-2016.pdf

    That's quite significant information. Nate Silver rates Franklin and Marshall B+, but adjusts their results by reducing Clinton's lead by 2 points. This new poll was conducted about half after the FBI's intervention. The lead of 11 points is 2 points more than in their last poll, done from 28 Sep-2 Oct. According to 538, Clinton's national poll lead at that time was 2-3%.

    But comparisons aside, on those figures, Pennsylvania would obviously still be out of reach for Trump.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,372

    RobD said:
    there but for the grace of god?
    I commented earlier on this, though I'd not seen the voting figures showing that Vaz actually mainly got Tory votes. The whips want the system to work, and MPs aren't keen to bash one of their number who hasn't been convicted of anything. Removing him from the chair of the committee seems a reasonable sanction.
  • Options

    Also, if Brawn does replace Ecclestone, with Todt as FIA President one imagines they'd be as close as Mosley and Ecclestone were (Todt was Ferrari team principal when Brawn was chief technical officer).

    Edited extra bit: think I got the job descriptions right...

    Ferrari International Assistance on the way back? I've missed it.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,132

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Do you want a lifelong public servant with an encyclopedic grasp of the issues, or a buffoon guided only by his own prejudices?"

    The problem is that that's a highly inaccurate characterisation of Clinton. In 30 years, what has she actually achieved? If so much, why does she not shout them from the rooftops? What is her real grasp of the issues? If it's so good, why is she unable to formulate detailed policy and communicate it? Why has she been under criminal investigation three times that we know of? If she's a dedicated public servant, she shouldn't even have been investigated once.

    If Clinton were what the WP says, this election would have been over months ago and probably Trump would have taken Indiana and nowhere else. It is precisely because she is an incompetent, lazy, arrogant and unpleasant sleazeball that Trump (who is correctly described) is still in the running.

    Who was it said that any candidate other than Clinton would undoubtedly beat Trump, and any candidate other than Trump would undoubtedly beat Clinton? I have seen nothing to suggest they were wrong. The loser is the US democratic process.
    Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of HRC, at least in her later years. I don't think she is lazy but most of the other epithets fit. She served competently as a Senator, she played an important role as First Lady, she had a mixed record at State. My concerns about her are that she epitomises Washington corruption. There was a devastating piece in the WSJ the other day about her monetising her time at State. It's shocking and not healthy for American democracy. But the alternative....jeez.
    Representative democracy is finished across the pond. I expect us to follow fairly soon.

    THere has never been democracy here
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    RobD said:
    there but for the grace of god?
    I commented earlier on this, though I'd not seen the voting figures showing that Vaz actually mainly got Tory votes. The whips want the system to work, and MPs aren't keen to bash one of their number who hasn't been convicted of anything. Removing him from the chair of the committee seems a reasonable sanction.
    The voting list (via OrderOrder):

    http://order-order.com/2016/11/01/tory-whips-saved-vaz/#more-248352
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141
    TonyE said:

    Jobabob said:

    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.
    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
    Only in Trumpland could someone reply to a comment saying the FBI hadn't read the emails by saying "that's not what the FBI are looking for". Why did Alec Baldwin have to take a week off?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National Panel Tracker - LA Times - Sample 3,145 - 1 Nov

    Clinton 43.3 .. Trump 46.9

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Chris said:

    JackW said:

    Pennsylvania - Franklin & Marshall - Sample 863 - 26-30 Oct

    Clinton 49 .. Trump 38

    http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/913809798323927231-f-m-poll-release-october-2016.pdf

    That's quite significant information. Nate Silver rates Franklin and Marshall B+, but adjusts their results by reducing Clinton's lead by 2 points. This new poll was conducted about half after the FBI's intervention. The lead of 11 points is 2 points more than in their last poll, done from 28 Sep-2 Oct. According to 538, Clinton's national poll lead at that time was 2-3%.

    But comparisons aside, on those figures, Pennsylvania would obviously still be out of reach for Trump.
    Quite so .... One pillar of FOP is falling away for Trump ....

    Have I mentioned FOP before ? .... :smiley:
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    RobD said:
    there but for the grace of god?
    I commented earlier on this, though I'd not seen the voting figures showing that Vaz actually mainly got Tory votes. The whips want the system to work, and MPs aren't keen to bash one of their number who hasn't been convicted of anything. Removing him from the chair of the committee seems a reasonable sanction.
    I think it's pretty sad that they have chosen this route. It brings Parliament into disrepute in the eyes of the general public who generally don't care for the 'process' itself but want to see some integrity and backbone.

    Labour of course, might have used its own influence to alter the course of events without breaking the process though.
  • Options

    RobD said:
    there but for the grace of god?
    I commented earlier on this, though I'd not seen the voting figures showing that Vaz actually mainly got Tory votes. The whips want the system to work, and MPs aren't keen to bash one of their number who hasn't been convicted of anything. Removing him from the chair of the committee seems a reasonable sanction.
    The voting list (via OrderOrder):

    http://order-order.com/2016/11/01/tory-whips-saved-vaz/#more-248352
    Lol.

    'As a result 159 of the 203 MPs who voted for Vaz were Tories'.

    That heart of stone's getting a right old battering.
  • Options
    TonyE said:

    RobD said:
    there but for the grace of god?
    I commented earlier on this, though I'd not seen the voting figures showing that Vaz actually mainly got Tory votes. The whips want the system to work, and MPs aren't keen to bash one of their number who hasn't been convicted of anything. Removing him from the chair of the committee seems a reasonable sanction.
    I think it's pretty sad that they have chosen this route. It brings Parliament into disrepute in the eyes of the general public who generally don't care for the 'process' itself but want to see some integrity and backbone.

    Labour of course, might have used its own influence to alter the course of events without breaking the process though.
    It smells like a deal's been done - you vote for Vaz, we'll let you do X.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,372
    edited November 2016
    FF43 said:



    Being investigated is no particular evidence of wrongdoing in this context.

    That sentence is worth singling out, as it is relevant to politics again and again. If you accuse the Queen, or Theresa May, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone else of a hideous crime, the police have to investigate it - however, briefly. If they decide you were motivated by spite, the investigation may be rapid, or they may give it low priority, as happened to me when a far-right group mischievously accused me of inciting racial hatred of Arabs (I'd made a joke about the Taliban) - the police put it aside for over a year as they were too busy to get round to dismissing it.

    Being charged with something is significant. Being investigated is not.

  • Options
    Mr. Quidder, perhaps.

    Brawn had his own team and worked at Mercedes too, although I don't think he's fond of the Wolff.

    I hope he's rather more sensible than Ecclestone. The sport's not nearing a precipice but it is driving in that direction. Sensible action would easily stop it getting near the edge.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141
    edited November 2016
    Chris said:

    TonyE said:

    Jobabob said:

    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.
    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
    Only in Trumpland could someone reply to a comment saying the FBI hadn't read the emails by saying "that's not what the FBI are looking for". Why did Alec Baldwin have to take a week off?
    To say nothing of the bizarre statement that the FNBI "declared that she had committed a criminal act ... but had failed the test of criminal intention."

    Of course the FBI declared no such thing. But how could anyone think such a declaration could even make sense?
  • Options

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    TonyE said:

    Jobabob said:

    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.
    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
    Only in Trumpland could someone reply to a comment saying the FBI hadn't read the emails by saying "that's not what the FBI are looking for". Why did Alec Baldwin have to take a week off?
    To say nothing of the bizarre statement that the FNBI "declared that she had committed a criminal act ... but had failed the test of criminal intention."

    Of course the FBI declared no such thing. But how could anyone think such a declaration could even make sense?
    Comey admitted to the congressional committee that Clinton had committed acts that broke the law, but concluded he could not prove intent and so did not recommend a grand jury/indictment. Problem is successful convictions for the same crimes have been made with less evidence of intent.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    edited November 2016
    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    JackW said:

    Pennsylvania - Franklin & Marshall - Sample 863 - 26-30 Oct

    Clinton 49 .. Trump 38

    http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/913809798323927231-f-m-poll-release-october-2016.pdf

    That's quite significant information. Nate Silver rates Franklin and Marshall B+, but adjusts their results by reducing Clinton's lead by 2 points. This new poll was conducted about half after the FBI's intervention. The lead of 11 points is 2 points more than in their last poll, done from 28 Sep-2 Oct. According to 538, Clinton's national poll lead at that time was 2-3%.

    But comparisons aside, on those figures, Pennsylvania would obviously still be out of reach for Trump.
    Quite so .... One pillar of FOP is falling away for Trump ....

    Have I mentioned FOP before ? .... :smiley:
    Trump us now 3.2% behind nationally on average with RCP, 4% behind in Colorado and 5. 2% behind in Pennsylvania so it is actually more likely Trump wins the popular vote then the Electoral College and if he does win the Electoral College it is now Colorado which will put him over the top, not Pennsylvania. Though a poll yesterday had him just 3 points behind in the Keystone state
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,859
    RobD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Chris said:

    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    NH Clinton +7 - Uni of NH.

    That seems to block one of Trumpy's routes to ECV of 270

    Even if he won NH alongside Iowa, Ohio, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina and the rest of the Romney states Trump would only get to 269, he needs Pennsylvania or Colorado to get over 270, Colorado is closer in the RCP average than NH and Pennsylvania is also closer in recent polls.
    I think Trump may have to win either Michigan or Wisconsin to win the election.
    Interestingly, a poll by Mitchell Research, conducted entirely after the FBI's intervention in the election, shows Clinton's lead is unchanged since last Tuesday, at 6 points:
    http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/214738676-story
    But but - the husband of someone Hillary knew sent an email about something. Lock her up!
    The FBI wouldn't be investigating if it were so trivial.
    One could argue the same about Trump's Russian links, which would be equally silly.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Good news about Keith Vaz. Let private lives remain private - the gutter press visiting family tragedies on people for consensual sexual acts is not a trend any decent person ought to want to see continue.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,312
    edited November 2016
    Jonathan said:

    viewcode said:

    Perhaps Mr Hannan can release categorised lists of nationalities by level of foreignness, just so we can prepare for our bright, new, internationalist future.

    He contends that anglophone former British colonies constitute an ethnos (right word? would "nation" be better?) and have a superior understanding of civil rights to the rest of the world, resulting in a more peaceful administration without violent uprising since the Bill of Rights. To make this work he has to ignore Nordic countries that pioneered democracy before Britain (not to mention Greece and Rome), and maintain that the USA's impulse towards democracy is a product of British influence (as opposed to despite it), which ignores the influence of France in the independence. Not to mention the Irish War of Independence and the Highland Clearances.

    So when when he says Canadians are "hardly foreign", he is being consistent with his mindset.

    He does have inconsistencies and lacunae. He usually qualifies India (English as an official language, Commonwealth member) using phrases like "some people include", and always leaves out South Africa (English as an official language, Commonwealth member). I don't think he gets that Ireland exists (that "no revolutions since the Bill of Rights" thing does have an enormous exception that only makes sense if you realise he's ignoring Ireland) and Commonwealth former colonies like Jamaica rarely (never?) get mentioned
    That's certainly a more comprehensive analysis of Hannan's worldview than he ever manages. As has been pointed out, he has a tendency to block people when challenged, or reverts to a sickly sweet Anglosycophancy as a substitute for persuasion.

    Who could have predicted Peruvian-born Hannan would be such a fan of the Anglosphere?
    Hannan is one of those chaps that presents a good front. He uses language well and makes his points aggressively.

    Yet for all that, there doesn't seem to be much depth. When he himself is challenged he is very brittle. Immediately post Brexit he almost went into meltdown.

    I wonder which safe seat he is gunning for. Tick took.
    Yeah, brittle is a good description.

    It appears that suggesting that there's a spectrum of foreignness is a step too far even for dear, old Dan as he's deleted those tweets.
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    Mr. Wheel, again, that reinforces that he should've prosecuted her.

    The decision not to just looks like one rule for ordinary people, and another for the political elite.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,859
    A perhaps more interesting, and less sensational article on Trump and Russia:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/10/trump-putin-alt-right-comintern/506015/
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jobabob said:

    Good news about Keith Vaz. Let private lives remain private - the gutter press visiting family tragedies on people for consensual sexual acts is not a trend any decent person ought to want to see continue.

    Yes - the higher this sleazy man's profile the better it is for keeping Labour's polling at record lows.

  • Options
    Sometimes the metaphors just rush right up to you and batter you over the head.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    FF43 said:



    Being investigated is no particular evidence of wrongdoing in this context.

    That sentence is worth singling out, as it is relevant to politics again and again. If you accuse the Queen, or Theresa May, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone else of a hideous crime, the police have to investigate it - however, briefly. If they decide you were motivated by spite, the investigation may be rapid, or they may give it low priority, as happened to me when a far-right group mischievously accused me of inciting racial hatred of Arabs (I'd made a joke about the Taliban) - the police put it aside for over a year as they were too busy to get round to dismissing it.

    Being charged with something is significant. Being investigated is not.

    The court of public opinion is pretty damning when politician's genitalia are involved in secret shenanigans. I know that 'lewd' behaviour, bringing the company you work for into disrepute is sufficient reason for dismissal in a number of employers. How come our representatives are held to different, and lower standards?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
    This bet is effectively dependent on Clinton losing Florida.

    The viable bet map sees Clinton losing NC OH and IA taking her down to 279 with FL keeping her below or above 300.

    As an aside it also shows how difficult Trump's path to 270 is.

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/9eLwL
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    edited November 2016
    JackW said:

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
    This bet is effectively dependent on Clinton losing Florida.

    The viable bet map sees Clinton losing NC OH and IA taking her down to 279 with FL keeping her below or above 300.

    As an aside it also shows how difficult Trump's path to 270 is.

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/9eLwL
    Romney states + Iowa + Ohio+Nevada+Florida+Colorado now his best bet, that gets him to 274
  • Options

    Sometimes the metaphors just rush right up to you and batter you over the head.
    Terrible fire in Paul Nuttall's library.
    Both books destroyed - and one he hadn't finished colouring yet.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,109
    Blue_rog said:

    FF43 said:



    Being investigated is no particular evidence of wrongdoing in this context.

    That sentence is worth singling out, as it is relevant to politics again and again. If you accuse the Queen, or Theresa May, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone else of a hideous crime, the police have to investigate it - however, briefly. If they decide you were motivated by spite, the investigation may be rapid, or they may give it low priority, as happened to me when a far-right group mischievously accused me of inciting racial hatred of Arabs (I'd made a joke about the Taliban) - the police put it aside for over a year as they were too busy to get round to dismissing it.

    Being charged with something is significant. Being investigated is not.

    The court of public opinion is pretty damning when politician's genitalia are involved in secret shenanigans. I know that 'lewd' behaviour, bringing the company you work for into disrepute is sufficient reason for dismissal in a number of employers. How come our representatives are held to different, and lower standards?
    That's a good point. There are several other aspects:
    *) The opportunity for blackmail (overplayed to my mind)
    *) Hypocrisy. For example, should a gay man, who is in the closet, be allowed to vote for anti-gay legislation?
  • Options
    Blue_rog said:

    FF43 said:



    Being investigated is no particular evidence of wrongdoing in this context.

    That sentence is worth singling out, as it is relevant to politics again and again. If you accuse the Queen, or Theresa May, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone else of a hideous crime, the police have to investigate it - however, briefly. If they decide you were motivated by spite, the investigation may be rapid, or they may give it low priority, as happened to me when a far-right group mischievously accused me of inciting racial hatred of Arabs (I'd made a joke about the Taliban) - the police put it aside for over a year as they were too busy to get round to dismissing it.

    Being charged with something is significant. Being investigated is not.

    The court of public opinion is pretty damning when politician's genitalia are involved in secret shenanigans. I know that 'lewd' behaviour, bringing the company you work for into disrepute is sufficient reason for dismissal in a number of employers. How come our representatives are held to different, and lower standards?
    Because we allow it.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880
    edited November 2016
    Nigelb said:

    A perhaps more interesting, and less sensational article on Trump and Russia:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/10/trump-putin-alt-right-comintern/506015/

    Putin's propaganda machine is live and well in the UK. From Russia Today, to the pro-Russian editorial line of the Independent and Evening Standard, to the forthcoming launch of Pravda in Scotland(!), and even some of the astro-turfers on here.

    All dedicated to subverting the "Western Alliance".

    Scary stuff.
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    Tories Slump to 16 Point Lead

    The Tories have a 16-point lead - one point down from our last poll. Here are the figures.

    Conservatives: 43% (no change from mid October)

    Labour: 27% (up 1)

    Ukip: 12% (up 1)

    Lib Dems: 8% (no change)

    Greens: 5% (down 1)


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/nov/01/guardianicm-poll-gives-tories-16-point-lead-over-labour-politics-live?page=with:block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29#block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    JackW said:

    Pennsylvania - Franklin & Marshall - Sample 863 - 26-30 Oct

    Clinton 49 .. Trump 38

    http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/913809798323927231-f-m-poll-release-october-2016.pdf

    That's quite significant information. Nate Silver rates Franklin and Marshall B+, but adjusts their results by reducing Clinton's lead by 2 points. This new poll was conducted about half after the FBI's intervention. The lead of 11 points is 2 points more than in their last poll, done from 28 Sep-2 Oct. According to 538, Clinton's national poll lead at that time was 2-3%.

    But comparisons aside, on those figures, Pennsylvania would obviously still be out of reach for Trump.
    Quite so .... One pillar of FOP is falling away for Trump ....

    Have I mentioned FOP before ? .... :smiley:
    Trump us now 3.2% behind nationally on average with RCP, 4% behind in Colorado and 5. 2% behind in Pennsylvania so it is actually more likely Trump wins the popular vote then the Electoral College and if he does win the Electoral College it is now Colorado which will put him over the top, not Pennsylvania. Though a poll yesterday had him just 3 points behind in the Keystone state
    I see little prospect of Colorado putting Trump at 270+. 538 have Trump 4.1 points adrift with Clinton over 77% win ratio. Early voting also indicates a solid lead for her.

    The latest PA poll issued this morning had Clinton +11
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,880

    Tories Slump to 16 Point Lead

    The Tories have a 16-point lead - one point down from our last poll. Here are the figures.

    Conservatives: 43% (no change from mid October)

    Labour: 27% (up 1)

    Ukip: 12% (up 1)

    Lib Dems: 8% (no change)

    Greens: 5% (down 1)


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/nov/01/guardianicm-poll-gives-tories-16-point-lead-over-labour-politics-live?page=with:block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29#block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29

    Still waiting for that Lib Dem breakthrough...
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,141

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    TonyE said:

    Jobabob said:


    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.

    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
    Only in Trumpland could someone reply to a comment saying the FBI hadn't read the emails by saying "that's not what the FBI are looking for". Why did Alec Baldwin have to take a week off?
    To say nothing of the bizarre statement that the FNBI "declared that she had committed a criminal act ... but had failed the test of criminal intention."

    Of course the FBI declared no such thing. But how could anyone think such a declaration could even make sense?
    Comey admitted to the congressional committee that Clinton had committed acts that broke the law, but concluded he could not prove intent and so did not recommend a grand jury/indictment. Problem is successful convictions for the same crimes have been made with less evidence of intent.
    A breach of the law would require either intent or gross negligence. Comey testified that there was insufficient evidence of intent, and said that in the circumstances no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case focused on gross negligence.

    Of course he didn't testify that Clinton had broken the law. Read the transcript:
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-odds-of-an-electoral-college-popular-vote-split-are-increasing/?ex_cid=2016-forecast
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    TGOHF said:

    Jobabob said:

    Good news about Keith Vaz. Let private lives remain private - the gutter press visiting family tragedies on people for consensual sexual acts is not a trend any decent person ought to want to see continue.

    Yes - the higher this sleazy man's profile the better it is for keeping Labour's polling at record lows.

    Indeed.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,185
    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Chris said:

    JackW said:

    Pennsylvania - Franklin & Marshall - Sample 863 - 26-30 Oct

    Clinton 49 .. Trump 38

    http://www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/913809798323927231-f-m-poll-release-october-2016.pdf

    That's quite significant information. Nate Silver rates Franklin and Marshall B+, but adjusts their results by reducing Clinton's lead by 2 points. This new poll was conducted about half after the FBI's intervention. The lead of 11 points is 2 points more than in their last poll, done from 28 Sep-2 Oct. According to 538, Clinton's national poll lead at that time was 2-3%.

    But comparisons aside, on those figures, Pennsylvania would obviously still be out of reach for Trump.
    Quite so .... One pillar of FOP is falling away for Trump ....

    Have I mentioned FOP before ? .... :smiley:
    Trump us now 3.2% behind nationally on average with RCP, 4% behind in Colorado and 5. 2% behind in Pennsylvania so it is actually more likely Trump wins the popular vote then the Electoral College and if he does win the Electoral College it is now Colorado which will put him over the top, not Pennsylvania. Though a poll yesterday had him just 3 points behind in the Keystone state
    I see little prospect of Colorado putting Trump at 270+. 538 have Trump 4.1 points adrift with Clinton over 77% win ratio. Early voting also indicates a solid lead for her.

    The latest PA poll issued this morning had Clinton +11
    Trump was just 1% behind in Colorado yesterday, it is now more likely to win it for him than PA, half that PA poll was pre new emailgate revelations
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    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
    This bet is effectively dependent on Clinton losing Florida.

    The viable bet map sees Clinton losing NC OH and IA taking her down to 279 with FL keeping her below or above 300.

    As an aside it also shows how difficult Trump's path to 270 is.

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/9eLwL
    Romney states + Iowa + Ohio+Nevada+Florida+Colorado now his best bet, that gets him to 274
    I have taken some of the 240-269 band as well as a minor hedge against a Trump victory at 8/1.

    If he does win, he wins very narrowly.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    The progressive alliance or rainbow coalition is still behind.
  • Options
    Theresa May still failing to hit the 52% David Cameron achieved in the polls.
  • Options
    It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Manufacturing PMI - 54.3m in line with expectations. A decent figure overall. Output growth still solid and employment growth also still solid. Good start to the final quarter, if the services figures are good on Thursday then we should be looking at 0.4-0.6% growth which would mean up to 2.2% growth for the year.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    TonyE said:

    Jobabob said:


    Er, you know they haven't read the emails right? You have zero evidence for your statement. None.

    That's not what the FBI are looking for in all probability. When they dropped the investigation they declared that she had committed a criminal act (in using the unsecured server) but had failed the test of criminal intent in doing so. In the new emails, they will be looking for the intent element - the motive behind the use of the 'Bleaching' software, or any admission that Clinton and her staff knew that the operation of the server was illegal.
    Only in Trumpland could someone reply to a comment saying the FBI hadn't read the emails by saying "that's not what the FBI are looking for". Why did Alec Baldwin have to take a week off?
    To say nothing of the bizarre statement that the FNBI "declared that she had committed a criminal act ... but had failed the test of criminal intention."

    Of course the FBI declared no such thing. But how could anyone think such a declaration could even make sense?
    Comey admitted to the congressional committee that Clinton had committed acts that broke the law, but concluded he could not prove intent and so did not recommend a grand jury/indictment. Problem is successful convictions for the same crimes have been made with less evidence of intent.
    A breach of the law would require either intent or gross negligence. Comey testified that there was insufficient evidence of intent, and said that in the circumstances no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case focused on gross negligence.

    Of course he didn't testify that Clinton had broken the law. Read the transcript:
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-odds-of-an-electoral-college-popular-vote-split-are-increasing/?ex_cid=2016-forecast
    By pointing out a factual accuracy you will be labeled a Hilary sycophant
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.

    I think Trump will carry OH and FL, but lose the election.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
    This bet is effectively dependent on Clinton losing Florida.

    The viable bet map sees Clinton losing NC OH and IA taking her down to 279 with FL keeping her below or above 300.

    As an aside it also shows how difficult Trump's path to 270 is.

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/9eLwL
    Romney states + Iowa + Ohio+Nevada+Florida+Colorado now his best bet, that gets him to 274
    See my earlier reply.

    The early numbers from Nevada are also putting the state away from Trump too. One by one Clinton is closing off Trump's limited routes to 270.
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    New thread
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Jobabob said:

    JackW said:

    Seth Stevenson of the "Slate" re-interviews a panel of 13 GOP voters, who had concerns about Trump becoming their nominee, to see who they will be voting for :

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/gop_voters_who_don_t_like_trump_reveal_their_votes.html

    Lifelong GOP supporter (now voting for Hillary): "Clinton basically trotted out the socialist manifesto. But the released WikiLeaks transcripts of her paid speeches were very comforting to me."

    I believe the tired and traditional PB cliche for moments like this is "heart of stone not to laugh etc"..
    That the polls haven't decisively moved against Hillary after the FBI announcement perhaps just shows how low an opinion the voters already had of her....
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    MaxPB said:

    Manufacturing PMI - 54.3m in line with expectations. A decent figure overall. Output growth still solid and employment growth also still solid. Good start to the final quarter, if the services figures are good on Thursday then we should be looking at 0.4-0.6% growth which would mean up to 2.2% growth for the year.

    Osborne's golden legacy.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Tories Slump to 16 Point Lead

    The Tories have a 16-point lead - one point down from our last poll. Here are the figures.

    Conservatives: 43% (no change from mid October)

    Labour: 27% (up 1)

    Ukip: 12% (up 1)

    Lib Dems: 8% (no change)

    Greens: 5% (down 1)


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/nov/01/guardianicm-poll-gives-tories-16-point-lead-over-labour-politics-live?page=with:block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29#block-5818520be4b01c528432ee29

    LOL @ the Lib Dem surge.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    JackW said:

    Larry Sabato moves FL, OH, AZ, ME-2 into 'toss-up' from 'leans Dem'.

    Clinton still gets 293.

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/

    The 6/1 with Skybet for 270-299 ECVs for the Democrats (hat tip to Peter from Putney yesterday) still looks a great bet.
    This bet is effectively dependent on Clinton losing Florida.

    The viable bet map sees Clinton losing NC OH and IA taking her down to 279 with FL keeping her below or above 300.

    As an aside it also shows how difficult Trump's path to 270 is.

    http://www.270towin.com/maps/9eLwL
    Yes, I have taken that bet (was able to get a tenner on with SkyBet – wow!). As you say, if she wins FL it's a bust.
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    Jobabob said:

    It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.

    I think Trump will carry OH and FL, but lose the election.
    I think I can feel a bet coming on!
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited November 2016

    It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.

    FOP DENIER !!!!!!!!!

    There has no viable route for Trump without all elements of FOP .. :smile:
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    TGOHF said:

    Jobabob said:

    Good news about Keith Vaz. Let private lives remain private - the gutter press visiting family tragedies on people for consensual sexual acts is not a trend any decent person ought to want to see continue.

    Yes - the higher this sleazy man's profile the better it is for keeping Labour's polling at record lows.

    You decide what's sleazy do you? Good to see the curtain-twitching tendency is alive and well on PB.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    It seems to me very likely that whoever wins both Florida & Ohio will be the next POTUS. Perhaps that's an over-simplification, but it's the way I see it.

    I think Trump will carry OH and FL, but lose the election.
    I think I can feel a bet coming on!
    Have already taken it Peter ;-)
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Jobabob said:

    Good news about Keith Vaz. Let private lives remain private - the gutter press visiting family tragedies on people for consensual sexual acts is not a trend any decent person ought to want to see continue.

    He is remarkably wealthy, though.
This discussion has been closed.