'But experts could not fully state the smoking ban was the cause of the change because pre-term births had started to drop before the ban.' Correlation does not equal causation.
Alcohol causes early death, obesity causes early death, travel causes premature death. Where are you going to draw the line ?
That easy. You're not comparing like with like.
Unlike food, drink and travel, branding on fags offers no benefit whatsoever. There is no cost from removing them.
ridiculous. What benefits does alcohol offer ? Why shouldn't whisky or vodka just come in a uni-bottle with identical labels ?
Ridiculous? Really? Obviously you're getting off on cigarette advertising in ways I can't possibly imagine. Having seen the damage both fags and booze can do am glad advertising is regulated.
The case against fags is so clear, very strong measures are justified IMO. I don't think the case against booze is quite so one sided.
Package design does make a difference in terms of brand choice. Camel often bring out limited editions and Lucky Strike had a packet that opened like a book. I'm not particularly loyal to one brand or another so on occasion I'll make up my mind based on branding or design. To a non-smoker that probably sounds daft but I wouldn't say branding is a non-issue.
Standard & Poor's uprated Ireland's sovereign risk from BBB+ from stable and reaffirmed Germany's AAA rating.
S&P stated that there was a one in three chance of Ireland's rating being uprated again in the next two years.
“Ireland could over-achieve its fiscal targets and reduce its government debt faster than we currently expect,” S&P said. “Ireland’s economic recovery is under way.”
Just where is BenM when you need him to comment?
Possibly on holiday in Italy whose rating was cut today from BBB+ to BBB with a negative outlook due to its economy continuing in recession.
No prizes too for Boy George: he keeps his top AAA rating as does Germany.
Does anyone actually take ratings agencies seriously still ?
The media more than the markets.
And some people still think they have political weight.
Mr Pole since we will hopefully be heading into a period of good economic data between now and 2015 ( assuming the continent doesn't implode ) why not let the news speak for itself ? The sound of silence from the opposition benches is often more telling than anything the Coalition can say.
I am a man of caring nature, Mr. Brooke.
A small piece of good news about Ireland's economy could bring much happiness to Neil.
If you want to make something attractive to teenagers have David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Milliband tell them they should not do it. Get a few photos of David, Nick and Ed hanging around a bus shelter fag in mouth (no jokes please). Now that might work.
I know that Clegg and Cameron are/were smokers, but suspect they went well out of their way to avoid being snapped by the press enjoying a ciggie.
We should all buy shares in fancy cigarette boxes, the ones that were made of metal and would flick open, I have several very flashy antique ones, they might catch on.
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
About eleven years ago I was having a relaxing mid-afternoon pint in the Blue Lion, in Fen Ditton here in Cambridge. It was quiet, and the only other people present were two women with prams. One women was resting her arm on the pram as she chatted so that ash from her cigarette was falling on the baby inside.
At that moment I became more vehemently anti-smoking, pro the smoking ban, and despairing of civilisation.
I'm not sure what government can do when such people exist.
Of course smoking rates were falling before the ban.
Childhood Asthma was rising before the ban, huge shift afterwards
OBJECTIVE: To assess whether the implementation of English smoke-free legislation in July 2007 was associated with a reduction in hospital admissions for childhood asthma.
METHODS: Interrupted time series study using Hospital Episodes Statistics data from April 2002 to November 2010. Sample consisted of all children (aged ≤14 years) having an emergency hospital admission with a principle diagnosis of asthma.
RESULTS: Before the implementation of the legislation, the admission rate for childhood asthma was increasing by 2.2% per year (adjusted rate ratio 1.02; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.02–1.03). After implementation of the legislation, there was a significant immediate change in the admission rate of −8.9% (adjusted rate ratio 0.91; 95% CI: 0.89–0.93) and change in time trend of −3.4% per year (adjusted rate ratio 0.97; 95% CI: 0.96–0.98). This change was equivalent to 6802 fewer hospital admissions in the first 3 years after implementation. There were similar reductions in asthma admission rates among children from different age, gender, and socioeconomic status groups and among those residing in urban and rural locations.
CONCLUSIONS: These findings confirm those from a small number of previous studies suggesting that the well-documented population health benefits of comprehensive smoke-free legislation appear to extend to reducing hospital admissions for childhood asthma.
'To assess whether the implementation of English smoke-free legislation in July 2007 was associated with a reduction in hospital admissions for childhood asthma.'/'the well-documented population health benefits of comprehensive smoke-free legislation appear to extend to reducing hospital admissions for childhood asthma.' [My emphases] My original point stands.
As easy a choice as plain packaging is for anyone not being lobbied, the bedroom tax just isn't going to go away as an issue and lib dem and tories best get used to it being one which dogs them all the way till 2015.
New on FactCheck: FactCheck: Cameron wrong again on “bedroom tax” detail http://bit.ly/1apTjz4
No huge crime, gullible tory eurosceptics have been falling for Cast Iron Cammie's spin on Europe for years yet they still keep coming back for more to be made a fool of.
If not, it is unkind to force carers into this position. Those caring for the disabled are exactly the sort of people who should be helped by a properly designed welfare system.
Curiously, this family looking after a disabled child doesn't seem to be too grateful for this generous tory ideological 'help'. Maybe you should just tell them they've never had it so good?
I'm not gullible. Mine was a genuine question which Tim answered earlier.
I do think that carers of the disabled should be provided with help not penalised for doing the right thing. I don't know enough of the detail about the policy changes to comment but if they are as bad as they appear to be then they are not sensible.
It would be interesting to know what the effect has been on carers of the disabled who have (I understand) been subject to the same policy for a number of years if they rented in the private sector and received housing benefit. Does anyone have the information?
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
Don't really have a problem with that tim, just the usual observations that when taxes go up on harmful products none of the tax on non-harmful ones come down and we appear to get an army of health botherers telling us we're all doomed unless we accept their offer of salvation.
Couldnt you just transfer the assets of the Royal Mail pension scheme to Ireland and tell them how to anticipate billions of Swiss tax dollars instead, Avery?
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food we have ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
Fast food advertising is already regulated.
Not sure we're going to agree here. Let's move on. Nothing you have said has changed my mind that branding on fag packets offers no value and could easily be removed.
Talking to you is like being dragged into a Monty Python sketch.
Couldnt you just transfer the assets of the Royal Mail pension scheme to Ireland and tell them how to anticipate billions of Swiss tax dollars instead, Avery?
Are you prepared for Bewley's to become a branch of Patisserie Valerie?
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
ON that basis tim we should be taxing anyone who votes Labour or has anything to do with Labour very punitively, perhaps till their pips squeak, given the untold damage Labour has done the economy of GB PLC.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food we have ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
Fast food advertising is already regulated.
Not sure we going to agree here. Let's move on. Nothing you have said has changed my mind that branding on fag packets offers no value and could easily be removed.
Talking to you is like being dragged into a Monty Python sketch.
Of course we're not going to agree since my original challenge to you was based on your Walt Disney emoting of a single death. There are lots of ways people in the UK die and you can't stop them, all you can do is educate and let people make their own decisions.
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
Don't really have a problem with that tim, just the usual observations that when taxes go up on harmful products none of the tax on non-harmful ones come down and we appear to get an army of health botherers telling us we're all doomed unless we accept their offer of salvation.
My manifesto will include increases in taxes on
Fat Cats Unvaccinated children Fat unvaccinated children Packed lunches Fat unvaccinated children with packed lunches. House price inflation.
And a direct cut in the basic rate of income tax for each rise in each of these revenue streams.
I'm beginning to wonder if you're Labour at all, you missed the chance to tax Fat cats ;-)
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
Don't really have a problem with that tim, just the usual observations that when taxes go up on harmful products none of the tax on non-harmful ones come down and we appear to get an army of health botherers telling us we're all doomed unless we accept their offer of salvation.
I suspect the practicalities of a fat tax rule it out for the time being. It's hard to see how you come up with a straight forward criteria for good vs bad food.
I was under the impression that Bewley's had already fallen victim to Ireland's financial problems but it has been a number of years since I walked down Grafton Street. I am no shopper.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food we have ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
Fast food advertising is already regulated.
Not sure we going to agree here. Let's move on. Nothing you have said has changed my mind that branding on fag packets offers no value and could easily be removed.
Talking to you is like being dragged into a Monty Python sketch.
Of course we're not going to agree since my original challenge to you was based on your Walt Disney emoting of a single death. There are lots of ways people in the UK die and you can't stop them, all you can do is educate and let people make their own decisions.
But if you find a cost free way of saving a life, you should take it.
Teachers are staging a walkout/strike about Pay and work load..just after they return from a six/seven week summer holiday.They must be going for the sympathy vote
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
That's a very Thatcherite taxation policy you're adopting there Tim!!
I largely agree with you but if the taxes have the effect of limiting the bad practices then the government will not raise the amounts it wants. And if people keep on drinking / smoking etc then the policy is not achieving the social good that people want.
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
Don't really have a problem with that tim, just the usual observations that when taxes go up on harmful products none of the tax on non-harmful ones come down and we appear to get an army of health botherers telling us we're all doomed unless we accept their offer of salvation.
I suspect the practicalities of a fat tax rule it out for the time being. It's hard to see how you come up with a straight forward criteria for good vs bad food.
I suspect you're right, food taxes would just be too full of unintended consequences to be worth it. maybe we should tax sitting around instead so you have to burn the calories off.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
I'm sure someone was selling 'Smoking's Cool' stickers to put over the old 'Smoking Kills' labels.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
I'm sure someone was selling 'Smoking's Cool' stickers to put over the old 'Smoking Kills' labels.
if we want to cut back on fags just keep raising taxes but also employ more people at HMRC to stop smuggling.
I was under the impression that Bewley's had already fallen victim to Ireland's financial problems but it has been a number of years since I walked down Grafton Street. I am no shopper.
I was last there in 1993, Neil, sharing a table with a delightful Irish financial journalist, who later went on to work in Germany and NYC.
Her most notable published work was yet to come. It was an account of how she exited safely from the 52nd floor of the North Tower of the WTC on 11th September 2001.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
yes a bit of bling, Burberry or Gucci ?
Pro Fag chap on radio was suggesting that standard packaging would aid the bounders selling fake branded fags - no idea whether this would actually happen or not...
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
Michael Savage @michaelsavage RT @JonathanArnott: It's now official....UKIP membership hit 30,000 for the first time just 2 minutes ago.
Dave thinks he has to get them down to 5% to stand a chance. Helping tobacco sales is an interesting master strategy
I was amazed to read in an article from Daniel Finklestein that the Liberals "only" had 175,000 members in 1975. Now the Lib Dems have 49,000. In the modern era, 30,000 is rather a large number. I wonder if their membership will overtake the Conservatives' in the next Parliament.
LDs reported to have 42,500 members in December 2012.
"You might think that tobacco companies would lobby against more unnecessary restrictions. And indeed, most of those that sell e-cigarettes are unhappy – though, naturally, those that make only traditional cigarettes are delighted. But there’s an exception: one tobacco giant is strongly pushing for the adoption of stringent rules on e-cigarettes.
Why? Because it happens to match those standards anyway, and sees the opportunity to place its rivals under a competitive disadvantage. Thus we see a familiar corporatist coalition taking shape: state-funded (and EU-funded) lobby groups line up alongside multi-national companies to restrict consumer choice."
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
yes a bit of bling, Burberry or Gucci ?
Pro Fag chap on radio was suggesting that standard packaging would aid the bounders selling fake branded fags - no idea whether this would actually happen or not...
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
We're in a Colbert situation where we need to pluck the goose without it honking. Pushing taxes up is gradually cutting back on fags but it also raises the attraction to organised crime and some of the stuff gangs are selling are just plain dangerous.
Whilst everyone was bothering about fag packets - from Tele..
" Up, up and away: Ten-year Portuguese bonds are now up 107 basis points to 7.62pc.
The rising Portuguese bond yield has just accelerated. Now the yield on the benchmark 10-year bond is up 77 basis points (compared with a mere 45 basis points reported only half an hour ago) to 7.75pc.""
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
yes a bit of bling, Burberry or Gucci ?
Pro Fag chap on radio was suggesting that standard packaging would aid the bounders selling fake branded fags - no idea whether this would actually happen or not...
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
We're in a Colbert situation where we need to pluck the goose without it honking. Pushing taxes up is gradually cutting back on fags but it also raises the attraction to organised crime and some of the stuff gangs are selling are just plain dangerous.
The counterfeiting argument is bogus, there's no evidence that smugglers would find the Australian style packaging easier to counterfeit. Why would they be?
Soubry claimed it would make them more difficult to copy than a standardised pack of say Marlboro which stays the same for years
depends if you want to counterfeit. Why not just smuggle fags in cheap, avoid duty and sell any old brand. Cheap cigs are cheap cigs. If you're paying £3 a packet rather than £7 smokers will compromise.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
yes a bit of bling, Burberry or Gucci ?
Pro Fag chap on radio was suggesting that standard packaging would aid the bounders selling fake branded fags - no idea whether this would actually happen or not...
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
We're in a Colbert situation where we need to pluck the goose without it honking. Pushing taxes up is gradually cutting back on fags but it also raises the attraction to organised crime and some of the stuff gangs are selling are just plain dangerous.
The counterfeiting argument is bogus, there's no evidence that smugglers would find the Australian style packaging easier to counterfeit. Why would they be?
Soubry claimed it would make them more difficult to copy than a standardised pack of say Marlboro which stays the same for years
depends if you want to counterfeit. Why not just smuggle fags in cheap, avoid duty and sell any old brand. Cheap cigs are cheap cigs. If you're paying £3 a packet rather than £7 smokers will compromise.
Next they will be wanting to print logos on the white part of the fag - and the filter.
Then it will be an inbuilt ipod with a droning nanny statist shouting "fags kill fags kill" in your ears whilst you smoke.
Then an LED screen on the packet with the CMO wagging his finger at you when you remove a cigarette.
It is only in recent times that the tobacco industry was run by the Government in some European countries: e.g. France. This report is interesting:
On April 17, 2013 Philip Morris International (PMI) issued a press release, based on an annual study conducted by KPMG. PMI claimed the most significant finding of the study is that: “For the sixth year in a row, the illegal trade of cigarettes in the European Union reached a new record high: in 2012 the levels rose to 11.1%, compared to 10.4% in 2011.”
However, further analysis tells a different story. It is true the numbers show that proportion of illegal sales increased as a percentage of total tobacco sales; however this is actually due to an overall decline in the EU tobacco market. The volume of the illegal cigarette trade has barely changed.
Total cigarette consumption in the EU declined from 720 billion cigarettes in 2007 to 593 billion cigarettes in 2012, a decrease of 127 billion. By comparison, in the same time period illicit cigarette consumption increased from 60.6 billion cigarettes to 65.5 billion, an increase of just 4.9 billion. In other words, the illicit trade increase compensated for only 4% of the legal sales decrease.
The decline in total cigarette consumption was partly compensated by the increase in other tobacco products consumption. Even so, the total consumption of tobacco decreased in the 2007-2012 period from 817 billion to 739 billion cigarette equivalents. Overall illicit tobacco sales (cigarettes and other products) in fact decreased in 2007-2012 from 91 billion to 90 billion cigarette equivalents.
The 2012 PMI Annual Report discloses the reason behind the sales reduction: “The total cigarette market in the EU declined … due primarily to tax-driven price increases”.
Despite the legal sales reduction, most EU countries did not experience an increase in illicit sales. If just one of 27 EU countries (Italy) is excluded from the KPMG 2012 Report, the illicit cigarette consumption in the remaining 26 EU countries declined from 59.4 billion cigarettes in 2011 to 57.4 billion cigarettes in 2012.
In Italy, total (licit+ illicit) cigarette consumption has declined from 90.4 billion cigarettes in 2011 to 85.9 billion cigarettes in 2012, despite some increase of illicit sales in 2012. Again, the reason can be found in the PMI Annual Report: ”In Italy, the total cigarette market was down … in 2012, reflecting the impact of price increases in 2011 and March 2012.”
Philip Morris’s press release is a misrepresentation of the findings of the KPMG report. In reality, the report revealed that tobacco tax hikes in the EU countries effectively reduced tobacco consumption and had no consistent impact on increasing the illicit market.
I don't agree with the counterfeiting argument, but overall I still don't think it has the force of persuasion - to defend on the on the doorstep, and so on - that a government which is largely out of political credits would want to take it on. I do understand why it's a debate the gov't doesn't want to have.
Blank fag packets are for people who want the pius points but don't have the nuts to ban ciggies outrights.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
You just know someone will start to sell plastic cigarette cartons of favourite brands or i-phone style carton covers and smokers will just transfer the fags.
Return of the silver cigarette case - we are all toffs now...
yes a bit of bling, Burberry or Gucci ?
Pro Fag chap on radio was suggesting that standard packaging would aid the bounders selling fake branded fags - no idea whether this would actually happen or not...
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
We're in a Colbert situation where we need to pluck the goose without it honking. Pushing taxes up is gradually cutting back on fags but it also raises the attraction to organised crime and some of the stuff gangs are selling are just plain dangerous.
The counterfeiting argument is bogus, there's no evidence that smugglers would find the Australian style packaging easier to counterfeit. Why would they be?
Soubry claimed it would make them more difficult to copy than a standardised pack of say Marlboro which stays the same for years
depends if you want to counterfeit. Why not just smuggle fags in cheap, avoid duty and sell any old brand. Cheap cigs are cheap cigs. If you're paying £3 a packet rather than £7 smokers will compromise.
Next they will be wanting to print logos on the white part of the fag - and the filter.
Then it will be an inbuilt ipod with a droning nanny statist shouting "fags kill fags kill" in your ears whilst you smoke.
Then an LED screen on the packet with the CMO wagging his finger at you when you remove a cigarette.
It's probably more a question of when tobacco and cannabis cross over.
Tobacco through high taxation is getting into territory - smuggling, criminality, quality - which currently surrounds the legalise weed arguments. Cannabis is probably worse for health but has its advocates. Oddly the people who want to legalise weed and restrict tobacco often overlap.
so's the effect of booze, 9000 deaths a year, so why not move to uniform packaging on booze ? It's inconsistent not to.
As I said, it's right that advertising on booze is regulated. Fags are at another level IMO so stronger sanctions are justified.
Hmmm. Limp. let's try obesity then 30,000 premature deaths per annum should fat be taxed ? Should fast food outlets have their advertising regulated ? Should we have fast food ration cards ? It's one of the nations biggest killers. Some fat people also smoke which is ultra bad.
It makes a lot of sense to move taxation from income to taxes things that do harm fags,booze,fat,cats etc.
Don't really have a problem with that tim, just the usual observations that when taxes go up on harmful products none of the tax on non-harmful ones come down and we appear to get an army of health botherers telling us we're all doomed unless we accept their offer of salvation.
Indeed she is. Hard for us in the West to understand how much girls and women in other parts of the world have to struggle for things we take for granted here.
And in other news - Heathrow shut because of a fire onboard an empty Ethiopian Airlines 787.....and in Paris there are 'many casualties' on a train derailment outside Paris....
Coral @Coral We're in trouble after projecting our #RoyalBaby odds onto Buckingham Palace. Hope we don't get sent to The Tower! pic.twitter.com/txL1uI1CWK
I have a step-daughter who is studying to be a chef at Westminster Kingsway at Victoria. Where Jamie Oliver trained for example. She seems to be really good at it - the only student in her first year who got a distinction and has all sorts of good Michelin-starred work placements over the summer.
I thought that this was a really good career choice. She got pretty good A Levels and could have gone off and done a good humanities degree at a good university but she is very focused and decided that she wants to be a chef. So, good thing, she won't be coming out with the millstone of student debt but, bad thing, she is not eligible for a student loan because the course is technically FE rather than HE. She is moving into student accommodation in London from September and I do my best to support her but it is a struggle.
So question for the PB glitterati; does anyone know of any scholarships/bursaries for trainee chefs? This isn't my world and googling does not reveal anything.
And in other news - Heathrow shut because of a fire onboard an empty Ethiopian Airlines 787.....and in Paris there are 'many casualties' on a train derailment outside Paris....
I go out for another bike ride and it all happens. The train crash looks serious; hope everyone's okay.
But if the plane fire is a 787, dump Boeing shares fast ...
And in other news - Heathrow shut because of a fire onboard an empty Ethiopian Airlines 787.....and in Paris there are 'many casualties' on a train derailment outside Paris....
But if the plane fire is a 787, dump Boeing shares fast ...
In an Ashes test match in Australia (I forget which) Michael Atherton edges one to slip, refuses to walk and given Not Out. End of the over Ian Healy comes up to him and says "You hit that you cheating f@@k". Atherton replies, "When in Rome, old boy!".
I thought Boeing had fixed the 787 battery problem?
They didn't fix the battery problems. As I said on here a while back, they never identified what caused the fire on the two planes previously, so they altered the batteries to make possible causes less likely, and also to mitigate the effects. Basically, they crossed their fingers and hoped, and the FAA bent over backwards to get the planes into the air.
The FAA were cowardly.
This fire looks more serious; the rear of the tail appears to have burnt through. (*) This is, from memory, away from where both batteries are, although the fire could have spread internally.
Note as well as the batteries, they had an electrical fire on a test flight before it went into service, and ISTR there is a power ?distribution? board in the tail.
The first 787 airframe loss? They've only lost three 777's in ten years of service ...
(*) The respiratory effects of carbon-fibre fires are much debated.
I've just seen the worst cricket decision ever. Broad gave a catch to slip and held his ground. The umpire was asleep. The school I went to you'd either have been expelled or dropped for at least a season for doing what Broad did.
Rightly so in my opinion.It's just not cricket.....come on Australia
I've just seen the worst cricket decision ever. Broad gave a catch to slip and held his ground. The umpire was asleep. The school I went to you'd either have been expelled or dropped for at least a season for doing what Broad did.
Rightly so in my opinion.It's just not cricket.....come on Australia
Boll@cks. Umpires are there to make the decision. That's their job. "Walking" is admirable - One of the many reasons I loved Adam Gilchrist was he would always walk. You clearly have never played cricket at any level post prep if you believe it is common for a batsman to walk. The reason why a big thing is made about Gilchrist is that he was a rarity. I did once and that was only because I had a massive hangover and needed to poo. My team mates where less than impressed!
I've just seen the worst cricket decision ever. Broad gave a catch to slip and held his ground. The umpire was asleep. The school I went to you'd either have been expelled or dropped for at least a season for doing what Broad did.
Rightly so in my opinion.It's just not cricket.....come on Australia
If I remember correctly, I believe Stuart Broad is a member of UNITE.
It might explain his odd behaviour, Roger.
I doubt it is anything to do with his schooling at Oakham School, Rutland.
Does the Boeing 787 come with batteries fitted or do you have to buy them separately?
Or as a wag on Twitter asked - do they allow fire extinguishers as carry-on luggage?
If you read the report about one of the battery fires, you'll see that you cannot extinguish the battery fires using any means - once they start, they continue burning as oxygen is a product of the combustion.
AFAICR it took them eighty minutes to get the battery box out of the plane, and it continued burning on the tarmac for about an hour.
The problem with walking is that it only works if both sides do it. For many years English batsman walked but Australians didn't, not because they were cheats but because cricketers in Australia have always been taught to wait for the umpire's decision.
The problem with walking is that it only works if both sides do it. For many years English batsman walked but Australians didn't, not because they were cheats but because cricketers in Australia have always been taught to wait for the umpire's decision.
Exactly playing with / against Australians and Saffers gives one, shall we say, a more competitive perspective! That said they are also great laughs in the bar after a game. What goes on the pitch stays on the pitch. Theres drinking to be done!
Does the Boeing 787 come with batteries fitted or do you have to buy them separately?
Or as a wag on Twitter asked - do they allow fire extinguishers as carry-on luggage?
If you read the report about one of the battery fires, you'll see that you cannot extinguish the battery fires using any means - once they start, they continue burning as oxygen is a product of the combustion.
"The problem with walking is that it only works if both sides do it."
Is there any difference between that and claiming a catch which you know has bounced?
Yes. One is active the other passive. If you claim a catch you didnt you are deliberately informing the umpire of a lie. If you dont walk you are waiting for the umpire to make a decision. Which is the umpires decision to make.
If you read the report about one of the battery fires, you'll see that you cannot extinguish the battery fires using any means - once they start, they continue burning as oxygen is a product of the combustion.
Isn't that why there are CO2 extinguishers, to remove oxygen from the fire?
If you read the report about one of the battery fires, you'll see that you cannot extinguish the battery fires using any means - once they start, they continue burning as oxygen is a product of the combustion.
Isn't that why there are CO2 extinguishers, to remove oxygen from the fire?
Normally yes, but this fire generates its own oxygen....
If you read the report about one of the battery fires, you'll see that you cannot extinguish the battery fires using any means - once they start, they continue burning as oxygen is a product of the combustion.
Isn't that why there are CO2 extinguishers, to remove oxygen from the fire?
Normally yes, but this fire generates its own oxygen....
Silly me, I understand now - even in a vacuum it would still burn.
"Yes. One is active the other passive. If you claim a catch you didnt you are deliberately informing the umpire of a lie. If you dont walk you are waiting for the umpire to make a decision. Which is the umpires decision to make."
I could argue the point if it was an edge but this wasn't even a decision that required an appeal. It was off the face of the bat and into second slips hand.
And in answer to your earlier question I wasn't a bad cricketer. I played for my house which at the time had three players who went on to play for their counties (all bowlers)
As mentioned earlier by Quincel that PPP Iowa GOP poll
Rand Paul 18% (15%) {5%} [11%] (9%) Chris Christie 16% (12%) {12%} [16%] (15%) Paul Ryan 15% (10%) {12%} [6%] (5%) Jeb Bush 14% (14%) {11%} [8%] (10%) Marco Rubio 11% (16%) {12%} [10%] (7%) Ted Cruz 10% Rick Santorum 6% {10%} [17%] (16%) Bobby Jindal 2% (3%) Susana Martinez 1% (4%) Someone else/Not sure 7% (7%) {8%} [8%] (10%)
And general election in the state Hillary Clinton (D) 43% Chris Christie (R) 36% Hillary Clinton (D) 49% Paul Ryan (R) 40% Hillary Clinton (D) 48% Rand Paul (R) 37% Hillary Clinton (D) 47% Marco Rubio (R) 35% Hillary Clinton (D) 50% Jeb Bush (R) 36%
Comments
Correlation does not equal causation.
A small piece of good news about Ireland's economy could bring much happiness to Neil.
Would you deny him such rare pleasures?
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/receipts/info-analysis.pdf
Over to Nigel Farage, leader of UKIP
About eleven years ago I was having a relaxing mid-afternoon pint in the Blue Lion, in Fen Ditton here in Cambridge. It was quiet, and the only other people present were two women with prams. One women was resting her arm on the pram as she chatted so that ash from her cigarette was falling on the baby inside.
At that moment I became more vehemently anti-smoking, pro the smoking ban, and despairing of civilisation.
I'm not sure what government can do when such people exist.
My original point stands.
Curiously, this family looking after a disabled child doesn't seem to be too grateful for this generous tory ideological 'help'. Maybe you should just tell them they've never had it so good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMzzkYhp0Q8
I'm not gullible. Mine was a genuine question which Tim answered earlier.
I do think that carers of the disabled should be provided with help not penalised for doing the right thing. I don't know enough of the detail about the policy changes to comment but if they are as bad as they appear to be then they are not sensible.
It would be interesting to know what the effect has been on carers of the disabled who have (I understand) been subject to the same policy for a number of years if they rented in the private sector and received housing benefit. Does anyone have the information?
Worked wonders for George.
Not sure we're going to agree here. Let's move on. Nothing you have said has changed my mind that branding on fag packets offers no value and could easily be removed.
Talking to you is like being dragged into a Monty Python sketch.
I was under the impression that Bewley's had already fallen victim to Ireland's financial problems but it has been a number of years since I walked down Grafton Street. I am no shopper.
... and off we go again. :-)
I largely agree with you but if the taxes have the effect of limiting the bad practices then the government will not raise the amounts it wants. And if people keep on drinking / smoking etc then the policy is not achieving the social good that people want.
Guardianista posturing - nothing more.
Mrs T didn't strike me as an animal person tho' I read somewhere that in old age she adopted a cat.
Her most notable published work was yet to come. It was an account of how she exited safely from the 52nd floor of the North Tower of the WTC on 11th September 2001.
Either way its a nanny state step too far - ban em or tax em - fhannying around with fonts is pathetic.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/ukip-membership-hits-30000-could-it-overtake-lib-dems-next
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100226210/the-tobacco-lobby-the-eu-and-how-we-are-governed-by-corporatism/
"You might think that tobacco companies would lobby against more unnecessary restrictions. And indeed, most of those that sell e-cigarettes are unhappy – though, naturally, those that make only traditional cigarettes are delighted. But there’s an exception: one tobacco giant is strongly pushing for the adoption of stringent rules on e-cigarettes.
Why? Because it happens to match those standards anyway, and sees the opportunity to place its rivals under a competitive disadvantage. Thus we see a familiar corporatist coalition taking shape: state-funded (and EU-funded) lobby groups line up alongside multi-national companies to restrict consumer choice."
" Up, up and away: Ten-year Portuguese bonds are now up 107 basis points to 7.62pc.
The rising Portuguese bond yield has just accelerated. Now the yield on the benchmark 10-year bond is up 77 basis points (compared with a mere 45 basis points reported only half an hour ago) to 7.75pc.""
Hopi Sen @hopisen
@JohnRentoul @SteveHartUnite Macintyre is nearly right. 38% of TU members have degrees. 14% have other higher education.
Then it will be an inbuilt ipod with a droning nanny statist shouting "fags kill fags kill" in your ears whilst you smoke.
Then an LED screen on the packet with the CMO wagging his finger at you when you remove a cigarette.
On April 17, 2013 Philip Morris International (PMI) issued a press release, based on an annual study conducted by KPMG. PMI claimed the most significant finding of the study is that: “For the sixth year in a row, the illegal trade of cigarettes in the European Union reached a new record high: in 2012 the levels rose to 11.1%, compared to 10.4% in 2011.”
However, further analysis tells a different story. It is true the numbers show that proportion of illegal sales increased as a percentage of total tobacco sales; however this is actually due to an overall decline in the EU tobacco market. The volume of the illegal cigarette trade has barely changed.
Total cigarette consumption in the EU declined from 720 billion cigarettes in 2007 to 593 billion cigarettes in 2012, a decrease of 127 billion. By comparison, in the same time period illicit cigarette consumption increased from 60.6 billion cigarettes to 65.5 billion, an increase of just 4.9 billion. In other words, the illicit trade increase compensated for only 4% of the legal sales decrease.
The decline in total cigarette consumption was partly compensated by the increase in other tobacco products consumption. Even so, the total consumption of tobacco decreased in the 2007-2012 period from 817 billion to 739 billion cigarette equivalents. Overall illicit tobacco sales (cigarettes and other products) in fact decreased in 2007-2012 from 91 billion to 90 billion cigarette equivalents.
The 2012 PMI Annual Report discloses the reason behind the sales reduction: “The total cigarette market in the EU declined … due primarily to tax-driven price increases”.
Despite the legal sales reduction, most EU countries did not experience an increase in illicit sales. If just one of 27 EU countries (Italy) is excluded from the KPMG 2012 Report, the illicit cigarette consumption in the remaining 26 EU countries declined from 59.4 billion cigarettes in 2011 to 57.4 billion cigarettes in 2012.
In Italy, total (licit+ illicit) cigarette consumption has declined from 90.4 billion cigarettes in 2011 to 85.9 billion cigarettes in 2012, despite some increase of illicit sales in 2012. Again, the reason can be found in the PMI Annual Report: ”In Italy, the total cigarette market was down … in 2012, reflecting the impact of price increases in 2011 and March 2012.”
Philip Morris’s press release is a misrepresentation of the findings of the KPMG report. In reality, the report revealed that tobacco tax hikes in the EU countries effectively reduced tobacco consumption and had no consistent impact on increasing the illicit market.
http://blogs.bmj.com/tc/2013/06/04/tobacco-industry-commissioned-report-large-decline-in-eu-consumption-almost-no-change-in-illegal-trade/
Tobacco through high taxation is getting into territory - smuggling, criminality, quality - which currently surrounds the legalise weed arguments. Cannabis is probably worse for health but has its advocates. Oddly the people who want to legalise weed and restrict tobacco often overlap.
Now how long until some eejit policitian takes it up ?
Anyway let's hope that no-one was injured and that the perpetrators are caught.
I know they've been around in the US for a little while, but they're popping up all over the place.
We're in trouble after projecting our #RoyalBaby odds onto Buckingham Palace. Hope we don't get sent to The Tower! pic.twitter.com/txL1uI1CWK
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOKiYl7CQAEDv2G.jpg:large
However, it is quite common in London to pay for parking using mobile phone - that many £1 coins are too heavy for the pocket.
Would add a lot of cost for a small market.
Could be cheaper to buy yer fags in Engerland.
I have a step-daughter who is studying to be a chef at Westminster Kingsway at Victoria. Where Jamie Oliver trained for example. She seems to be really good at it - the only student in her first year who got a distinction and has all sorts of good Michelin-starred work placements over the summer.
I thought that this was a really good career choice. She got pretty good A Levels and could have gone off and done a good humanities degree at a good university but she is very focused and decided that she wants to be a chef. So, good thing, she won't be coming out with the millstone of student debt but, bad thing, she is not eligible for a student loan because the course is technically FE rather than HE. She is moving into student accommodation in London from September and I do my best to support her but it is a struggle.
So question for the PB glitterati; does anyone know of any scholarships/bursaries for trainee chefs? This isn't my world and googling does not reveal anything.
(The Nazis did that to the Jews and others they thought undesirable - a bit too 1984ish.)
BTW, are you in a buff mood today?
http://poy.time.com/2012/12/19/times-person-of-the-year-issue-cover-gallery/slide/runner-up-malala-yousafzai/
But if the plane fire is a 787, dump Boeing shares fast ...
IIRC - there was a phase in the US where students had temporary tattoos used as adverts as a PR stunt a year or two ago...
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BA+Interactive#symbol=ba;range=1d;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
Reports of 8 dead in Paris....
Peter Hoskins @PeterHoskinsSky
Can you spot the moment that traders got the news of the #Boeing 787 #Dreamliner fire at Heathrow? twitpic.com/d29iyu
The FAA were cowardly.
This fire looks more serious; the rear of the tail appears to have burnt through. (*) This is, from memory, away from where both batteries are, although the fire could have spread internally.
Note as well as the batteries, they had an electrical fire on a test flight before it went into service, and ISTR there is a power ?distribution? board in the tail.
The first 787 airframe loss? They've only lost three 777's in ten years of service ...
(*) The respiratory effects of carbon-fibre fires are much debated.
Edit: outline electrical diagram at http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/boeing-787-battery-information/ Sheer blind guesswork, but it looks as though it is some way away from the aft EE box, where one of the batteries is, but quite near a power distribution box.
Having said that, it could just be a baggage fire and be a coincidence...
Rightly so in my opinion.It's just not cricket.....come on Australia
https://twitter.com/raisinganchor/status/355729741552185344/photo/1
It might explain his odd behaviour, Roger.
I doubt it is anything to do with his schooling at Oakham School, Rutland.
AFAICR it took them eighty minutes to get the battery box out of the plane, and it continued burning on the tarmac for about an hour.
Ah yes, page four at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2013/boeing_787/interim_report_B787_3-7-13.pdf
If you're geeky enough to read accident reports...
"The problem with walking is that it only works if both sides do it."
Is there any difference between that and claiming a catch which you know has bounced?
http://787updates.newairplane.com/Boeing787Updates/media/Boeing787Updates/Batteries and Advanced Aircraft/787_battery_info_graphics_master-large.jpg?width=900&height=675&ext=.jpg
It is however, immediately above a crew rest area:
http://yunoinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/b787_schem_021.gif
"Yes. One is active the other passive. If you claim a catch you didnt you are deliberately informing the umpire of a lie. If you dont walk you are waiting for the umpire to make a decision. Which is the umpires decision to make."
I could argue the point if it was an edge but this wasn't even a decision that required an appeal. It was off the face of the bat and into second slips hand.
And in answer to your earlier question I wasn't a bad cricketer. I played for my house which at the time had three players who went on to play for their counties (all bowlers)
Rand Paul 18% (15%) {5%} [11%] (9%)
Chris Christie 16% (12%) {12%} [16%] (15%)
Paul Ryan 15% (10%) {12%} [6%] (5%)
Jeb Bush 14% (14%) {11%} [8%] (10%)
Marco Rubio 11% (16%) {12%} [10%] (7%)
Ted Cruz 10%
Rick Santorum 6% {10%} [17%] (16%)
Bobby Jindal 2% (3%)
Susana Martinez 1% (4%)
Someone else/Not sure 7% (7%) {8%} [8%] (10%)
And general election in the state
Hillary Clinton (D) 43%
Chris Christie (R) 36%
Hillary Clinton (D) 49%
Paul Ryan (R) 40%
Hillary Clinton (D) 48%
Rand Paul (R) 37%
Hillary Clinton (D) 47%
Marco Rubio (R) 35%
Hillary Clinton (D) 50%
Jeb Bush (R) 36%
Hillary Clinton (D) 46% [45%]
Chris Christie (R) 40% [37%]
Chris Christie (R) 46% [43%]
Joe Biden (D) 35% [40%]
Hillary Clinton (D) 50% {49%}
Rand Paul (R) 38% {41%}
Joe Biden (D) 42% {39%}
Rand Paul (R) 42% {43%}
Another Southwark deselection: Althea Smith (Nunhead ward) .