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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Heathrow expansion to go ahead: Zac Goldsmith to make a statem

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    Pulpstar said:

    @RIchard_Nabavi Are you piling on Hillary off the back of this :) ?

    Not really, I'm trying mostly to pin a tail on the ECV bands donkey-derby. I also have an open spread bet bought at 329, which I'm happy to keep open but I might at some point derisk by a sell of Hillary on the 330-Ups
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2016
    Wow. Joseph Weller is brilliant. Democracy requires 2 basic things:
    1. the ability to throw the scoundrels out
    2. the vote should affect the policies pursued
    With the EU, neither can happen, so the Euro-sceptic anger is justified.

    It shouldn't require a brain the size of a planet to see this. Some say, however, that if you voted Leave you must be a racist uneducated knuckledragging mouthbreather.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    The comparison between these different elections is meaningless, no?

    Never mind Heathrow, This by election will be about the Government's direction over Brexit, which will likely make both Zac and any putative continuity Conservative candidate very vulnerable in this seat.

    I'm loving the denial though..
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Patrick said:

    Wow. Joseph Weller is brilliant. Democracy requires 2 basic things:
    1. the ability to throw the scoundrels out
    2. the vote should affect the policies pursued
    With the EU, neither can happen, so the Euro-sceptic anger is justified.

    It shouldn't require a brain the size of a planet to see this. Some say, however, that if you voted Leave you must be a racist uneducated knuckledragging mouthbreather.

    Agreed. It was the clarity and succinctness of his argument that wowed me.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited October 2016
    @Monksfield

    'Except he's failed to deliver on his personal manifesto and deserves to be punished for it. This will be all about hard Brexit and in a very anti Brexit area there's lots of scope to send Cruella a message. I think it just might get sent.'


    If the Lib Dems can't win this then it confirms they are past their sell- by date in national politics.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,345
    edited October 2016

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    The comparison between these different elections is meaningless, no?

    Never mind Heathrow, This by election will be about the Government's direction over Brexit, which will likely make both Zac and any putative continuity Conservative candidate very vulnerable in this seat.

    I'm loving the denial though..
    But Richmond London Borough HEAVILY voted to REMAIN anyway, so it will hardly be a surprise if he loses, no?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited October 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    @RIchard_Nabavi Are you piling on Hillary off the back of this :) ?

    Not really, I'm trying mostly to pin a tail on the ECV bands donkey-derby. I also have an open spread bet bought at 329, which I'm happy to keep open but I might at some point derisk by a sell of Hillary on the 330-Ups
    If you sell now at 23.5, you've effectively turned your 329 buy into a

    305.5 buy with 24.5 units fixed profit from 330 upwards.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    The comparison between these different elections is meaningless, no?

    Never mind Heathrow, This by election will be about the Government's direction over Brexit, which will likely make both Zac and any putative continuity Conservative candidate very vulnerable in this seat.

    I'm loving the denial though..
    Mike used to keep telling us that very few votes are determined by Europe, and in terms if the minutiae of possible Brexit alternatives, I'm sure he's right.

    But I was simply pointing out that this notion that Zac has lost a whole bunch of support because of the nature of his mayoral campaign - which is a theme on my twitter-feed at the moment - is simply not sustained by the evidence. Were that the case, he would have done much worse in his constituency this May.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Some great nuggets here

    Pew Research
    NEW: The political environment on social media https://t.co/LJE65SJRuX
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    Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,176
    It would be amusing if Independent Zac, the LD and an Official Tory all took great slugs out of each other's vote and the Labour candidate sneaked through.

    If Corbyn can win Richmond Park, then Landslide 2020 surely beckons for the deluded Corbynista lefties? :-)
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Brown v Farage - the US choice from hell.

    How we got to this, and the implications of what might happen, are endlessly and utterly fascinating.
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    I don't know whether it will remain the case, but at the moment the effect of Zac's actions is to focus a lot of the media attention on him personally rather than on the wider issue of opposition to the decision. That's actually quite helpful to Theresa May.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298

    It would be amusing if Independent Zac, the LD and an Official Tory all took great slugs out of each other's vote and the Labour candidate sneaked through.

    If Corbyn can win Richmond Park, then Landslide 2020 surely beckons for the deluded Corbynista lefties? :-)

    It would be a great bet to deploy all your winnings from Trump's victory?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    I don't know whether it will remain the case, but at the moment the effect of Zac's actions is to focus a lot of the media attention on him personally rather than on the wider issue of opposition to the decision. That's actually quite helpful to Theresa May.

    I think that's helped by the lack of resignations from Boris and Greening. If either one of those had gone today then the focus would really be on the decision, Zac, an outspoken opponent of Heathrow, resigning the whip just doesn't have the same pull factor.
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    I don't know whether it will remain the case, but at the moment the effect of Zac's actions is to focus a lot of the media attention on him personally rather than on the wider issue of opposition to the decision. That's actually quite helpful to Theresa May.

    ...and when they do eventually go wider it won't be on the broad support the decision has across the country but on the Nimbyish opposition...
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I've seen dozens of reports like this. Everything wrong with electronic voting

    iVotronic voting machines are changing votes in Arkansas. https://t.co/DmrKQMWD4O
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298

    I do have fond memories of Heathrow as a kid. Mum and dad would drive me all the way from Ilford across central London and then down the M4 several weekends a year just so that I could view the planes from the top of car park 3. Of course, back in the 1980s, parking was something like 20p for a whole afternoon :)

    And you kept finding your way back home?
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    Pulpstar said:


    Surely if the Conservatives (I doubt they will) run a candidate other than Zac in Richmond Park he or she will be pro-Heathrow ?
    Otherwise whats the point

    Why should they be? The constituency is overwhelmingly anti-Heathrow for obvious reasons, and the MP is likely to reflect that. A pro-Heathrow candidate would be electoral suicide.

    That an MP (prospective MP) differs from the party line (and not a manifesto party line at that) isn't surprising on this sort of issue. It isn't like a Tory MP being anti-tax cuts or a Labour MP wanting to abolish the NHS or something.

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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    PlatoSaid said:

    I've seen dozens of reports like this. Everything wrong with electronic voting

    iVotronic voting machines are changing votes in Arkansas. https://t.co/DmrKQMWD4O


    Electronic voting is just mad.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @RIchard_Nabavi Are you piling on Hillary off the back of this :) ?

    Not really, I'm trying mostly to pin a tail on the ECV bands donkey-derby. I also have an open spread bet bought at 329, which I'm happy to keep open but I might at some point derisk by a sell of Hillary on the 330-Ups
    If you sell now at 23.5, you've effectively turned your 329 buy into a

    305.5 buy with 24.5 units fixed profit from 330 upwards.
    Yes, exactly (except it's a 23.5 fixed profit). So what I need to decide is whether the 23 and a half birds in my hands from 330 up to 353 are worth more than the extra birds in the 354 bushes upwards. (Also of course any losses in the lower regions are mitigated by 23.5 points as well). Plus, if I decide they are, I have to try to judge the optimal moment to grab them.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Someone is heavily laying trump on BF
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    PlatoSaid said:

    I've seen dozens of reports like this. Everything wrong with electronic voting

    iVotronic voting machines are changing votes in Arkansas. https://t.co/DmrKQMWD4O

    The next president will be Richard Pryor?
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/790916028909969408

    im sensing a pattern in early voting so far...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    Although the mayoral election was essentially a forced choice conservative vs labour, so that may not be a perfect comparison.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    619

    Trouble is, its not news. It's a report by a hate obsessed reporter citing nobody. Nobody charged. Nobody found guilty. No witnesses. No names.

    Still, in the modern Clinton campaign, any allegation of Trump wrong doing is automatically the gospel truth.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    I've only ever used LHR once (inbound, so no experience at all of departures), but it didn't seem greatly better or worse than other really big airports. Doesn't mean I liked it. Give me a train any day.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Pong said:

    Someone is heavily laying trump on BF

    Who isn't?
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    IanB2 said:

    I do have fond memories of Heathrow as a kid. Mum and dad would drive me all the way from Ilford across central London and then down the M4 several weekends a year just so that I could view the planes from the top of car park 3. Of course, back in the 1980s, parking was something like 20p for a whole afternoon :)

    And you kept finding your way back home?
    Back in those days, yes :)

    Yesterday, I did the train from Castle Cary to Yeovil Junction for the first time (including the recently re-opened Yeovil Pen Mill to Yeovil Junction curve), as well Frome to Bruton.

    Back on Friday, I did Liverpool to Manchester via Newton-le-Willows (dates back to 1830!), and Manchester to Liverpool via Warrington.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: Malaysia may leave the calendar due to lack of money:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37759494

    A shame. Not a bad circuit, certainly compared to the tiresome likes of Monaco and Azerbaijan.
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    Correction, @Pulpstar is right, it's 24.5 fixed profit
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    taffys said:

    619

    Trouble is, its not news. It's a report by a hate obsessed reporter citing nobody. Nobody charged. Nobody found guilty. No witnesses. No names.

    Still, in the modern Clinton campaign, any allegation of Trump wrong doing is automatically the gospel truth.

    "We go high" pfft - zip on policy, 100% smearing.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For anyone interested

    Wikileaks
    RELEASE: The Podesta Emails Part 18 #PodestaEmails #PodestaEmails18 #HillaryClinton https://t.co/wzxeh70oUm https://t.co/TiLBnj73f4
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    Dromedary said:

    What a plonker Goldsmith is. Single constituency votes don't decide national policy. Boring!

    Meanwhile, Betfair midprices for the US election, for every candidate or non-candidate whom it's possible to lay as well as back, are as follows:

    Clinton 1.205
    Sanders 265
    Biden 900

    Trump 6.1
    Pence 825

    Sanders is well ahead of the lower-placed possibilities. Who's backing him? Surely if something were to happen to Clinton, her replacement would be Kaine?

    I think the actual money going on the more exotic choices is negligible.

    But Kaine wouldn't necessarily be the choice were Clinton to die between now and when the electoral college meets. Members of the electoral college pledged to Clinton would need to decide what to do, presumably on advice from the Democrat National Committee. There would be a good case for Kaine (who's on the ballot) but also some case for Sanders (who ran Clinton fairly close in the primaries and still has decent favourability ratings). Or a compromise candidate may emerge (e.g. Biden for continuity if he could be prevailed upon).
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    The Betfair market is going mental.
    Clinton in to 1.195,
    Trump out to 7.3 (back them at 1.19 and 7.2 for a 2% profit if either wins)
    and...
    ...Sanders in to 110
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone interested

    Wikileaks
    RELEASE: The Podesta Emails Part 18 #PodestaEmails #PodestaEmails18 #HillaryClinton https://t.co/wzxeh70oUm https://t.co/TiLBnj73f4

    Nahhhh. Boring, pointless, illegally obtained.
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    rcs1000 said:



    Although the mayoral election was essentially a forced choice conservative vs labour, so that may not be a perfect comparison.

    Plus there's a good case for believing your (ex)MP will favour or at least take greater interest in his constituency than other choices. So a fairly apolitical voter may well go for their local candidate for mayor even if they wouldn't necessarily support him at a GE.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    On Heathrow:

    The Terminal 5 inquiry took four years and cost £80 million. In comparison, the AV referendum cost £75 million.

    Perhaps, on projects that are deemed of national importance such as LHR3, we should have a quicker process where there is a short period for objections and replanning, followed by a national referendum on it?

    If it's of importance to the nation, a few NIMBYs should not be able to block it, and cost the taxpayer a fortune in the process.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    On Heathrow:

    The Terminal 5 inquiry took four years and cost £80 million. In comparison, the AV referendum cost £75 million.

    Perhaps, on projects that are deemed of national importance such as LHR3, we should have a quicker process where there is a short period for objections and replanning, followed by a national referendum on it?

    If it's of importance to the nation, a few NIMBYs should not be able to block it, and cost the taxpayer a fortune in the process.


    Then it goes ahead anyway. And they get compensation.

    What was the point?

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    Dromedary said:

    The Betfair market is going mental.
    Clinton in to 1.195,
    Trump out to 7.3 (back them at 1.19 and 7.2 for a 2% profit if either wins)
    and...
    ...Sanders in to 110

    I guess ABC at Clinton +12 maybe focussing minds. Even Rasmussen have her +1 this afternoon.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    What the f is going on with Bernie's price ?!
    I have an open heavy lay on him ;p
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    On Heathrow:

    The Terminal 5 inquiry took four years and cost £80 million. In comparison, the AV referendum cost £75 million.

    Perhaps, on projects that are deemed of national importance such as LHR3, we should have a quicker process where there is a short period for objections and replanning, followed by a national referendum on it?

    If it's of importance to the nation, a few NIMBYs should not be able to block it, and cost the taxpayer a fortune in the process.


    Then it goes ahead anyway. And they get compensation.

    What was the point?

    "Democracy" in action?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    619 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone interested

    Wikileaks
    RELEASE: The Podesta Emails Part 18 #PodestaEmails #PodestaEmails18 #HillaryClinton https://t.co/wzxeh70oUm https://t.co/TiLBnj73f4

    Nahhhh. Boring, pointless, illegally obtained.
    But not fake?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Glenn, one hopes Carney is paying attention. Growth is fine, inflation is rising, the pound is declining.

    It would take a drunken lunatic to conclude cutting rates is the right remedy. We need a rate rise back to the dizzying heights of 0.5%.

    But that would require the Governor to effectively admit he was wrong before. So, which weighs more: economic reality or Carney's ego?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    On Heathrow:

    The Terminal 5 inquiry took four years and cost £80 million. In comparison, the AV referendum cost £75 million.

    Perhaps, on projects that are deemed of national importance such as LHR3, we should have a quicker process where there is a short period for objections and replanning, followed by a national referendum on it?

    If it's of importance to the nation, a few NIMBYs should not be able to block it, and cost the taxpayer a fortune in the process.

    Then it goes ahead anyway. And they get compensation.

    What was the point?
    It may not pass a referendum;
    The NIMBYs may not be in line for compensation.

    But it is clear that the current process is archaic, slow and does not work.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    edited October 2016
    That £100 on Bernie at 100 must be the safest 1% someone will ever make in the next fortnight.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Using the adage of watching the candidate rather than listening to them. Trump's doing something unexpected.

    https://youtu.be/Zt1tADOWJ8Y
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    What time is Carney on? 4pm?
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Dromedary said:

    What a plonker Goldsmith is. Single constituency votes don't decide national policy. Boring!

    Meanwhile, Betfair midprices for the US election, for every candidate or non-candidate whom it's possible to lay as well as back, are as follows:

    Clinton 1.205
    Sanders 265
    Biden 900

    Trump 6.1
    Pence 825

    Sanders is well ahead of the lower-placed possibilities. Who's backing him? Surely if something were to happen to Clinton, her replacement would be Kaine?

    I think the actual money going on the more exotic choices is negligible.

    But Kaine wouldn't necessarily be the choice were Clinton to die between now and when the electoral college meets. Members of the electoral college pledged to Clinton would need to decide what to do, presumably on advice from the Democrat National Committee. There would be a good case for Kaine (who's on the ballot) but also some case for Sanders (who ran Clinton fairly close in the primaries and still has decent favourability ratings). Or a compromise candidate may emerge (e.g. Biden for continuity if he could be prevailed upon).
    Betfair say they will settle the market "according to the candidate that has the most projected Electoral College votes won at the 2016 presidential election" and "(a)ny subsequent events such as a ‘faithless elector’ will have no effect on the settlement of this market." If Clinton were to be out by 8 Nov, I think replacing her with anyone other than Kaine would lose votes. After 8 Nov and before the EC "meets" on 19 Dec the DNC would have a freer hand, but their choice (probably) wouldn't affect who Betfair pay out on.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    619 said:

    https://twitter.com/mmurraypolitics/status/790916028909969408

    im sensing a pattern in early voting so far...

    That's comparing Off year to presidential though. There should be a Dem surge compared to offyear voting given how shit Dems are at turning up for non-presidential years.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    619 said:
    PlatoSaid said:

    For anyone interested

    Wikileaks
    RELEASE: The Podesta Emails Part 18 #PodestaEmails #PodestaEmails18 #HillaryClinton https://t.co/wzxeh70oUm https://t.co/TiLBnj73f4

    I'm more interested in these Trump Bunga Bunga parties.

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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    Ha, so the democrats seem to be doing well and all of a sudden a right wing website find voting issues.

    What a coincidence...

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    Dromedary said:

    The Betfair market is going mental.
    Clinton in to 1.195,
    Trump out to 7.3 (back them at 1.19 and 7.2 for a 2% profit if either wins)
    and...
    ...Sanders in to 110

    I'd be very, very careful on reading Betfair prices on long odds shots due to the extremely low volumes. A few quid will appear to move a 1000-1 outsider to 100-1 (or even less - some of it is just people taking offers off the table rather than matching bets). The Clinton v Trump moves are interesting... those for Sanders, Biden, Penelope Pitstop or anyone else less so.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Hammond has said he 'saw no reason' to block requests for further QE from the BoE.

    No wonder the pound is falling
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    rcs1000 said:

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    Although the mayoral election was essentially a forced choice conservative vs labour, so that may not be a perfect comparison.
    Is that first preferences or second?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Taffys, words fail me. What's Hammond thinking? Is he thinking?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    Although the mayoral election was essentially a forced choice conservative vs labour, so that may not be a perfect comparison.
    It wouldn't be a fair comparison for the Lab or LD vote but I think the Con one is more valid. (Of course, as an SV vote, it *should* be possible for people to vote without tactical considerations in the first round assuming that the run-off is clear enough, but voters seem to skip the middle man and 'transfer' in anticipation).
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    Mr. Taffys, words fail me. What's Hammond thinking? Is he thinking?

    That the Bank of England must be independent. It's better to take any short term hit that might arise from that than introduce political interference at the Bank. Carney will announce that he is not going to seek another term pretty soon anyway so the Bank will undergo a change of ethos anyway. No need to rock the boat.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Pulpstar said:

    That £100 on Bernie at 100 must be the safest 1% someone will ever make in the next fortnight.

    In any other year. But 2016 will be remembered as The Year of The Fucking Weird.......
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    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    Pretty silly comment on two main grounds.

    Firstly, people wouldn't largely be voting LD to stop Brexit in its tracks but to shift away from hard Brexit and towards preserving single market freedoms. Would it work? Well, there are a fair few seats like Richmond which voted Tory in 2015 and Remain in 2016, and it would certainly give May pause on the strategy.

    Secondly, Zac was the one who pledged to step down if he didn't get his way on a particular issue. Why on God's green earth would you possibly think the Lib Dems ought to be bound by a pledge made by a different MP from a different party on a different matter?!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Max, if the Bank of England requires approval for policies that harm the UK economy then declining is a good thing.

    On the independence of interest rate setting, it's also appropriate to point out when they're crackers. I hope you're right about Carney sodding off soon, but he can still cause damage in the meantime.

    Mr. Mark, or the Year of the Verstappen Tip ;)
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    eekeek Posts: 24,992

    Mr. Glenn, one hopes Carney is paying attention. Growth is fine, inflation is rising, the pound is declining.

    It would take a drunken lunatic to conclude cutting rates is the right remedy. We need a rate rise back to the dizzying heights of 0.5%.

    But that would require the Governor to effectively admit he was wrong before. So, which weighs more: economic reality or Carney's ego?

    Economic reality is that the pound was over valued. Assuming the current level is about right it will now probably overshoot a bit and then correct itself. The only unknown is what is the pounds actual value $1.20, $1.10?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Its not just Sterling actually, the euro is also dropping against the USD.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    You've really got it in for the LDs at the moment, haven't you ?

    Little rattled after Witney perhaps...

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    eek said:

    Mr. Glenn, one hopes Carney is paying attention. Growth is fine, inflation is rising, the pound is declining.

    It would take a drunken lunatic to conclude cutting rates is the right remedy. We need a rate rise back to the dizzying heights of 0.5%.

    But that would require the Governor to effectively admit he was wrong before. So, which weighs more: economic reality or Carney's ego?

    Economic reality is that the pound was over valued. Assuming the current level is about right it will now probably overshoot a bit and then correct itself. The only unknown is what is the pounds actual value $1.20, $1.10?
    Yeah, right.
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    stodge said:

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    You've really got it in for the LDs at the moment, haven't you ?

    Little rattled after Witney perhaps...

    Witney, where the LDs didn't "win here"?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Dromedary said:

    Dromedary said:

    What a plonker Goldsmith is. Single constituency votes don't decide national policy. Boring!

    Meanwhile, Betfair midprices for the US election, for every candidate or non-candidate whom it's possible to lay as well as back, are as follows:

    Clinton 1.205
    Sanders 265
    Biden 900

    Trump 6.1
    Pence 825

    Sanders is well ahead of the lower-placed possibilities. Who's backing him? Surely if something were to happen to Clinton, her replacement would be Kaine?

    I think the actual money going on the more exotic choices is negligible.

    But Kaine wouldn't necessarily be the choice were Clinton to die between now and when the electoral college meets. Members of the electoral college pledged to Clinton would need to decide what to do, presumably on advice from the Democrat National Committee. There would be a good case for Kaine (who's on the ballot) but also some case for Sanders (who ran Clinton fairly close in the primaries and still has decent favourability ratings). Or a compromise candidate may emerge (e.g. Biden for continuity if he could be prevailed upon).
    Betfair say they will settle the market "according to the candidate that has the most projected Electoral College votes won at the 2016 presidential election" and "(a)ny subsequent events such as a ‘faithless elector’ will have no effect on the settlement of this market." If Clinton were to be out by 8 Nov, I think replacing her with anyone other than Kaine would lose votes. After 8 Nov and before the EC "meets" on 19 Dec the DNC would have a freer hand, but their choice (probably) wouldn't affect who Betfair pay out on.
    In a previous election (1880?), Greeley died and votes that were cast for him were assessed by the Senate as null and void in their role of ratifying the result. Precedent would therefore suggest that if a candidate died, they couldn't receive any votes, whether or not any elector cast their vote for him or her - and hence they couldn't have 'the most projected Electoral College votes'. Were Trump or Clinton to die after Nov 8, it shouldn't affect Betfair's settlement as it's fairly clear that they're taking the position as at election day (or night); were they to die beforehand, that'd be a different matter and one would hope that clarification would be given (unless Trump won outright, in which case the Democrats' problems would be irrelevant).
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    edited October 2016
    Any news on when the by election will be held?
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited October 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    Mr. Glenn, one hopes Carney is paying attention. Growth is fine, inflation is rising, the pound is declining.

    It would take a drunken lunatic to conclude cutting rates is the right remedy. We need a rate rise back to the dizzying heights of 0.5%.

    But that would require the Governor to effectively admit he was wrong before. So, which weighs more: economic reality or Carney's ego?

    Economic reality is that the pound was over valued. Assuming the current level is about right it will now probably overshoot a bit and then correct itself. The only unknown is what is the pounds actual value $1.20, $1.10?
    Yeah, right.
    What are you "Yeah, right" about ?

    What you put the fair value of GBP at ?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    Pretty silly comment on two main grounds.

    Firstly, people wouldn't largely be voting LD to stop Brexit in its tracks but to shift away from hard Brexit and towards preserving single market freedoms. Would it work? Well, there are a fair few seats like Richmond which voted Tory in 2015 and Remain in 2016, and it would certainly give May pause on the strategy.

    Secondly, Zac was the one who pledged to step down if he didn't get his way on a particular issue. Why on God's green earth would you possibly think the Lib Dems ought to be bound by a pledge made by a different MP from a different party on a different matter?!
    Firstly.... Would it give May reason to pause on the strategy? Nah - she's more likely to press the Article 50 button sooner to move the debate on. We'll ask the LibDem candidate at the hustings if she (assuming it is the candidate we are expecting) will push for the UK to rejoin the EU once Article 50 is triggered. Anything less than "yes" will be pounced on as equivocating. And "yes" will be pounced on too. Would you join the Euro? A European Army? Schengen? etc etc.

    Seeing people voted Remain in the constituency and equating that with having a pro-EU stance is deeply flawed.

    Secondly... Why on God's green earth would I expect a LibeDem candidate to have the integrity to make a promise to the voters and the stand by it? Well, you said it.....

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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    I'm calling this one for the Lib Dems

    Zac's Mayoral campaign undoubtedly annoyed Liberals.

    Unlike Witney, the Yellow Peril have been planning for this by election for months

    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, GE2015: 58.2%
    Zac's share of the vote in Richmond Park, 2016 mayoral: 57.0%

    Whether or not his campaign or his support for Brexit annoyed Liberals, it didn't much shift his support in his constituency.
    The comparison between these different elections is meaningless, no?

    Never mind Heathrow, This by election will be about the Government's direction over Brexit, which will likely make both Zac and any putative continuity Conservative candidate very vulnerable in this seat.

    I'm loving the denial though..
    Mike used to keep telling us that very few votes are determined by Europe, and in terms if the minutiae of possible Brexit alternatives, I'm sure he's right.

    But I was simply pointing out that this notion that Zac has lost a whole bunch of support because of the nature of his mayoral campaign - which is a theme on my twitter-feed at the moment - is simply not sustained by the evidence. Were that the case, he would have done much worse in his constituency this May.
    I don't think it would have mattered particularly for Zac in 2015 or even in the mayoral, but Brexit is now a reality so that will sharpen remainer minds somewhat. More importantly, it won't be a vote against Zac because he supports Brexit, it will be a protest vote against Brexit generally, and against the government. It's essentially a good opportunity for any remainers to give the government a bloody nose and say "hey! we're still here you know!". Zac will just be collateral damage.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    stodge said:

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    You've really got it in for the LDs at the moment, haven't you ?

    Little rattled after Witney perhaps...

    Nothing new. I've always got it in for the LibDems. They have always been the most obnoxious bunch of shits.

    I find Labour quite decent folk by comparison.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    Why would they be a hypocrite, have the Lib Dems said it was the right thing to do, resigning? Seems all pretty self centered to me, much like David Davis in 2008.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Tonda, indeed.

    A by-election is a free hit against the Government.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,827
    RobD said:

    Any news on when the by election will be held?

    Last Thursday before Christmas (22nd Dec) would be interesting.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    That Twitter account shows how right Cameron was with his adage.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Also, Zac's strong personal vote may not be that much use in the end - just as it wasn't really for the LDs in 2015 (so ironically they would be the beneficiaries this time!)
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
    Dear Lord, every US election since Bush vs Gore both sides have accused each other of electoral fraud/fiddling the vote machines/intimidation etc. It's as big a tradition as Thanksgiving and Halloween. You're beginning to sound as tinfoilhatty as Ms P.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266
    taffys said:

    Hammond has said he 'saw no reason' to block requests for further QE from the BoE.

    No wonder the pound is falling

    Has he told Mrs May?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,266

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
    Dear Lord, every US election since Bush vs Gore both sides have accused each other of electoral fraud/fiddling the vote machines/intimidation etc. It's as big a tradition as Thanksgiving and Halloween. You're beginning to sound as tinfoilhatty as Ms P.
    Mayor Daley knew a thing or two about voting.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Taffys, words fail me. What's Hammond thinking? Is he thinking?

    That the Bank of England must be independent. It's better to take any short term hit that might arise from that than introduce political interference at the Bank. Carney will announce that he is not going to seek another term pretty soon anyway so the Bank will undergo a change of ethos anyway. No need to rock the boat.
    The Bank of England is *operationally* independent but still has to operate within broad government guidelines. If Hammond is required to sign off QE then he has to make a real decision; he can't simply say that it's delegated and that he's nothing more than a rubber stamp. It may be that there are reasons to keep his mind open on further QE though were I in No 11, I'd be reiterating that the BoE is tasked to aim for 2% inflation, that it should set its monetary policy accordingly and that it will be held to account on that target.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,979
    edited October 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    Any news on when the by election will be held?

    Last Thursday before Christmas (22nd Dec) would be interesting.
    Yes, that would be an interesting date!
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
    Dear Lord, every US election since Bush vs Gore both sides have accused each other of electoral fraud/fiddling the vote machines/intimidation etc. It's as big a tradition as Thanksgiving and Halloween. You're beginning to sound as tinfoilhatty as Ms P.
    Mayor Daley knew a thing or two about voting.
    Made all the difference between President Nixon and President Kennedy in 1960. Every little counts.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Herdson, precisely. Likewise, the 2% inflation target is a target for the Bank but it's set by the Government.

    I wouldn't comment so much on this, but I'm procrastinating, so...

    Which reminds me, time to look at the Mexico markets.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Trouble at t'mill:

    Con 1: We shouldn't do anything to assist the FibDems - like splitting the Tory vote.
    Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hrs
    Con 2 If Zac stands as an independent it is he who is splitting the Tory vote.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,748
    I imagine the leafy streets of Richmond are agitated at the moment - by Brexit, Heathrow, having to turn out for another vote. I could see a polite rebellion, not necessarily in favour of Mr Goldsmith.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
    Dear Lord, every US election since Bush vs Gore both sides have accused each other of electoral fraud/fiddling the vote machines/intimidation etc. It's as big a tradition as Thanksgiving and Halloween. You're beginning to sound as tinfoilhatty as Ms P.
    100% to 0 % is in grotesque bad taste. You must agree to that, whatsoever your nonchalance to electoral fraud.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,329
    dr_spyn said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    I don;t know if anyone follows Zero hedge but they are running a report on possible voting irregularities in Texas

    One tweeter posted over 100 documented reports of voter fraud - its endemic. Check out MicroSpookyLeaks https://twitter.com/wdfx2eu7
    Philadelphia's the most outrageous site of Dem electoral corruption. In many voting districts in 2012 Obama got 100 % of the vote to Romney's 0 %. Makes Tower Hamlets and North Korea look honest. I can see Hillary hitting 125 % in some neighborhoods.
    Dear Lord, every US election since Bush vs Gore both sides have accused each other of electoral fraud/fiddling the vote machines/intimidation etc. It's as big a tradition as Thanksgiving and Halloween. You're beginning to sound as tinfoilhatty as Ms P.
    Mayor Daley knew a thing or two about voting.
    Made all the difference between President Nixon and President Kennedy in 1960. Every little counts.
    Urban myth. Kennedy would have won even if Illinois had gone the other way.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,869

    stodge said:

    So, a LibDem elected to replace Zac is going to stop Brexit in its tracks is it?

    Hur hur hur.....

    Will they have the decency to resign and cause a by-election if they fail to do so? If not, they are just a hypocrite.

    You've really got it in for the LDs at the moment, haven't you ?

    Little rattled after Witney perhaps...

    Nothing new. I've always got it in for the LibDems. They have always been the most obnoxious bunch of shits.

    I find Labour quite decent folk by comparison.
    The LDs worked with the Conservatives in the Coalition years which I do think some people look back on with a degree of fondness.

    I presume you'd have preferred no Coalition and a minority Government in 2010. Perhaps you should have told Cameron...

This discussion has been closed.