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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov has Clinton winning the debate by 47% to 42%

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    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
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    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
    Mr Eagles, please, there are times when the good of the planet trumps (no pun intended) the importance of your book. With Pence vs Kaine we'd have a guarantee of a more or less sane and sensible candidate winning. With Clinton and Trump we have a near guarantee that won't happen. Your bet on Texas coming up palls a bit by comparison.
    I'd win more money if Kaine or Pence were the next President than if Hillary wins Texas
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    There's never any reason to stick with Apple. Unless you design chips that will be needed for all those wireless headphones. ;)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting that Yougov's debate poll almost exactly matches their voting intention poll.

    Interesting too that 53% say they would never vote Trump, while 47% say they would never vote Clinton. Can two candidates ever have been so disliked.

    And both Pence and Kaine are much better rated by the voters.

    Another big worry - quite apart from the fact that they are both manifestly unfit to hold public office - is that neither will be able to reach out to the others' supporters. That was the secret of Obama, Clinton and to a lesser extent Reagan - they were able to partially bridge that divide, which is why they had high approval ratings, higher than their voting share. Of course, they didn't actually do much in terms of policy, which may have helped, but the effort was made.

    But can you really see anyone who hates Clinton enough to vote for Trump being willing to listen to her? America looks set to be as badly divided as it was in the 1960s, when many feared it was becoming ungovernable.

    Whoever wins this election, the American system of democracy has clearly lost - in one party because they stitched up the nomination for a wholly unsuitable candidate, and in one party because they failed to stitch up the nomination to stop one. A radical rethink of the whole process is urgently needed.
    Completely right. Any successful politician needs to attract the centre ground as well as their base. From the UK think of Cameron, Blair, Major, Thatcher - all had higher personal ratings than their party.

    The post-election investigations from both parties in the US will be very interesting. The Democrats ran the primaries as a stitch-up, probably on a promise from Obama dating back to 2008. The Republicans ran a huge field and let one big ego dominate while the rest were attacking each other.

    Hint to both parties - about five nominees works well, and make sure they stay in the race until close to the end.

    Is anyone offering odds on a new President taking office in 2021? The one thing that's almost certain amongst this chaos is that whichever unsuitable old person wins this year, they won't be standing again four years from now.
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    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Today we learned that Trump is just a male Carrie Bradshaw.

    Only from the PB Morning Shift.

    Only on PB.
    "Lets Make America Grope Again!"
    Today's Mirror: Trump on the Gropes
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Team Corbyn say Labour leader backs a Commons vote on Brexit deal


    Presumably so Corbyn can vote in favour of Brexit?
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    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    Historically speaking, its a very new and untried idea.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    Sean_F said:

    How long before the next Trump tape comes out, do we think? And how will it cap confessions of sexual assault and baselining 12 year olds as minimally acceptable sexual partners?

    It's hard to know where you go after that.
    Racism. About black people, using the word "nigger", on tape.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bombshell-footage-donald-trump-saying-9013627
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    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,925
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting that Yougov's debate poll almost exactly matches their voting intention poll.

    Interesting too that 53% say they would never vote Trump, while 47% say they would never vote Clinton. Can two candidates ever have been so disliked.

    And both Pence and Kaine are much better rated by the voters.

    Another big worry - quite apart from the fact that they are both manifestly unfit to hold public office - is that neither will be able to reach out to the others' supporters. That was the secret of Obama, Clinton and to a lesser extent Reagan - they were able to partially bridge that divide, which is why they had high approval ratings, higher than their voting share. Of course, they didn't actually do much in terms of policy, which may have helped, but the effort was made.

    But can you really see anyone who hates Clinton enough to vote for Trump being willing to listen to her? America looks set to be as badly divided as it was in the 1960s, when many feared it was becoming ungovernable.

    Whoever wins this election, the American system of democracy has clearly lost - in one party because they stitched up the nomination for a wholly unsuitable candidate, and in one party because they failed to stitch up the nomination to stop one. A radical rethink of the whole process is urgently needed.
    How is Hilary Clinton a wholly unsuitable candidate?
    She represents the mainstream of the Democratic party, is as qualified as you could be, understands the issues deeply, has a track record of working with republicans and democrats to get things done....

    On a betting point- I think there's great value in backing Clinton to get between 47 and 50% of the vote at 3.9. She might break 50% but unlikely I think... expecting Stein and Johnson to pick up enough votes to mean the winner doesn't break 50%.

    If you're bullish about Trump's chances- you can extend Hilary's range down to 45% and you've probably covered everything from Trump win, to most Clinton victories... at better than evens.



  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    Historically speaking, its a very new and untried idea.
    Being told what to do by the Great Unwashed - or by Mr Meeks? That's your Hobson's Choice, right there....
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,522

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I suggest that those two populations are not mutually exclusive.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Today we learned that Trump is just a male Carrie Bradshaw.

    Only from the PB Morning Shift.

    Only on PB.
    "Lets Make America Grope Again!"
    Today's Mirror: Trump on the Gropes

    Anybody yet called Trump the Gropenfuhrer?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    Well that's always been the dilemma for people who call themselves liberals; do you allow people to vote for policies you deem illiberal?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Someone on here told me Trump was doing great in Florida as he had such a big lead with Cuban Americans linking me to the news story with the poll results.

    The stories headline was along the lines of "Trump polls lowest ever level for Republican presidential candidate with Cuban Americans"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,018

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    Income requirement waived for bona fide PB Tories, surely? :o
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Also, first online voodoo poll I checked Hilary is winning.
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    Sean_F said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    I don't know but it is going to be a damned close run thing.

    All this is starting to bring out the Liberal in me.
    The US reminds me of Anthony Beevor's description of Spain in early 1936.
    That is a scarily good comparison.

    Makes you wonder if the USA will have gone the way of the USSR in 50 years.

    If civil war does break out we may have to invite all the protagonists to Lancaster House in a few years and send Fatty Soams to the whitehouse to oversee a return to legality, free and fair elections and granting of Dominion status.
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    Some days you have to check if this shit is true or a parody

    Ben Carson on the Trump tape: "that was a very different time in his life and at that time he was a billionaire playboy"
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    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Someone on here told me Trump was doing great in Florida as he had such a big lead with Cuban Americans linking me to the news story with the poll results.

    The stories headline was along the lines of "Trump polls lowest ever level for Republican presidential candidate with Cuban Americans"
    Jesus Christ.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    It's probably not safe to compare independents from election to election, because the kind of people identifying that way may be quite fluid.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Someone on here told me Trump was doing great in Florida as he had such a big lead with Cuban Americans linking me to the news story with the poll results.

    The stories headline was along the lines of "Trump polls lowest ever level for Republican presidential candidate with Cuban Americans"
    Jesus Christ.
    It is why I get a little bit worked up about people posting info on a betting site without checking it.
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    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    Yup. It will damage the whole brand if they aren't careful.

    When the Galaxy s8 comes out, people will be wary after this
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,522

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    The old would have a massive advantage, which is hardly the direction we need to be going right now!
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2016

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    It's probably not safe to compare independents from election to election, because the kind of people identifying that way may be quite fluid.
    Independents consistently break in favour of the Republican candidate.

    Obama McCain was trying only time recently where they have gone Democrat.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Some days you have to check if this shit is true or a parody

    Ben Carson on the Trump tape: "that was a very different time in his life and at that time he was a billionaire playboy"

    Was that before he lost $900 million?
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    you'd have given a truckload of votes to Jimmy Saville :)
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Someone on here told me Trump was doing great in Florida as he had such a big lead with Cuban Americans linking me to the news story with the poll results.

    The stories headline was along the lines of "Trump polls lowest ever level for Republican presidential candidate with Cuban Americans"
    You're suggesting that people read, consider and understand the links that they spam?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNormanS: Team Corbyn say Labour leader backs a Commons vote on Brexit deal


    Presumably so Corbyn can vote in favour of Brexit?
    One of Labour's weekend themes, alongside another Mrs May has no mandate. Are they trying to goad her into calling a General Election?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    Sean_F said:

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    Well that's always been the dilemma for people who call themselves liberals; do you allow people to vote for policies you deem illiberal?
    Thinking further, it's a dilemma for all of us. Do you let people take power who believe in One Man, One Vote, Once, like the Muslim Brotherhood, or ZANU PF?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    Anyone still supporting Trump has got real problems. Sexual assault is not a small issue.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,099
    @Josias

    Your code from yesterday brought back memories of writing C in the mid 1990s, and always putting the True/False first so that if you forgot the second '=' then it would throw an Exception.

    It's a habit I've completely given up with Python.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799
    @astrohelein: A few months ago, Farage warned refugees would grope women but now when Trump does it, it's just "alpha male" normal
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125
    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    RobD said:

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    Income requirement waived for bona fide PB Tories, surely? :o
    They will get seats in the Upper House, so not be entitled to vote.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,522
    This UKIP feuding isn't going to go away
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    MaxPB said:

    Anyone still supporting Trump has got real problems. Sexual assault is not a small issue.

    That seems to be at least forty percent of the population, and possibly a plurality. We will find out in November.

    Whats the sexual assault equivalent to the phrase if you owe the bank £100 and cant pay it back you have a problem. If you owe the bank £100 Trillion and cant pay it back the bank has a problem?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    rcs1000 said:

    @Josias

    Your code from yesterday brought back memories of writing C in the mid 1990s, and always putting the True/False first so that if you forgot the second '=' then it would throw an Exception.

    It's a habit I've completely given up with Python.

    Good -- it makes code less readable and lint or a modern compiler, or anyone reading the code would catch it anyway. Mind you, OO makes code unreadable anyway. I'm convinced that in 20 years time OO will be seen as the emperor's new clothes (though I also thought that 20 years ago). None of which helps with betting on this election.
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    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    Well that's always been the dilemma for people who call themselves liberals; do you allow people to vote for policies you deem illiberal?
    Thinking further, it's a dilemma for all of us. Do you let people take power who believe in One Man, One Vote, Once, like the Muslim Brotherhood, or ZANU PF?
    Ian Smith: I told you so, I told you so....
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3

    see what happens when Farage isn't around to fondle their bollocks for them
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,522
    matt said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    ForgetbYougov and CNN what do the Twitter polls say, how about Breitbart?

    Surely the most important polls are the polls of the independents that show Trump with a smaller lead than Romney had over Obama.
    Someone on here told me Trump was doing great in Florida as he had such a big lead with Cuban Americans linking me to the news story with the poll results.

    The stories headline was along the lines of "Trump polls lowest ever level for Republican presidential candidate with Cuban Americans"
    You're suggesting that people read, consider and understand the links that they spam?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/serious-reading-takes-a-hit-from-online-scanning-and-skimming-researchers-say/2014/04/06/088028d2-b5d2-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    you'd have given a truckload of votes to Jimmy Saville :)
    There's always somebody who is going bitch about the electorate....
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125
    rcs1000 said:

    @Josias

    Your code from yesterday brought back memories of writing C in the mid 1990s, and always putting the True/False first so that if you forgot the second '=' then it would throw an Exception.

    It's a habit I've completely given up with Python.

    That was a point I was trying to make! Mind, even back in the 1990s a decent compiler would have thrown an error before it got to run-time.

    Best compiler warning ever (I think from Watcom compiler circa 1995):

    "Grenade: cannot handle thrown object."
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    Yup. It will damage the whole brand if they aren't careful.

    When the Galaxy s8 comes out, people will be wary after this
    I can't find a link with a quick search, but there was a rumour going around a few weeks back that this phone had the first battery made by Samsung, out of a new battery factory. Previously all Samsung branded batteries were made by Japanese company Yuasa. Issues with pre-production models were dismissed as being prototypes, but it looks like the problems made it to production against a tight deadline of wanting to be on sale before the new iPhone.

    If that's true, then it could well affect a significant proportion of the company's product pipeline, as the packaging would be designed around the new batteries.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    you'd have given a truckload of votes to Jimmy Saville :)
    There's always somebody who is going bitch about the electorate....
    I still can't get over Saville. He's like one of the protagonists in 120 Days of Sodom.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,730
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3

    Can't think why Woolfe would fake his collapse.
    Then again I can't think why he would want to take an argument 'outside', if he wanted to be considered as a serious politician.
    The whole UKIP leadership soap opera is farcical.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125

    rcs1000 said:

    @Josias

    Your code from yesterday brought back memories of writing C in the mid 1990s, and always putting the True/False first so that if you forgot the second '=' then it would throw an Exception.

    It's a habit I've completely given up with Python.

    Good -- it makes code less readable and lint or a modern compiler, or anyone reading the code would catch it anyway. Mind you, OO makes code unreadable anyway. I'm convinced that in 20 years time OO will be seen as the emperor's new clothes (though I also thought that 20 years ago). None of which helps with betting on this election.
    "or anyone reading the code would catch it anyway."

    You haven't tackled some of the code I've had to fix. Besides, it's a good defensive programming technique, although somewhat deprecated.

    As for OO programming: some of OO might be seen as the emperor's new clothes. The base idea of encapsulation of data is here to stay, as is basic inheritance. Encapsulation / modularisation is good programming practice whatever the language

    OO, done well, does not make code unreadable. At least compared to some 'traditional' spaghetti code I've written seen. ;)
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3

    He's accusing Steven of crying Woolfe?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,522
    Essexit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3

    He's accusing Steven of crying Woolfe?
    Please, not that discussion again!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    Yup. It will damage the whole brand if they aren't careful.

    When the Galaxy s8 comes out, people will be wary after this
    I can't find a link with a quick search, but there was a rumour going around a few weeks back that this phone had the first battery made by Samsung, out of a new battery factory. Previously all Samsung branded batteries were made by Japanese company Yuasa. Issues with pre-production models were dismissed as being prototypes, but it looks like the problems made it to production against a tight deadline of wanting to be on sale before the new iPhone.

    If that's true, then it could well affect a significant proportion of the company's product pipeline, as the packaging would be designed around the new batteries.
    Well the biggest problem for Samsung is the rejection of the device by China's regulator. Having a product deemed unsafe, replacing the faulty part for that region and not for the rest of the world is going to lead to huge fines.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Give it time..
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    MaxPB said:

    Anyone still supporting Trump has got real problems. Sexual assault is not a small issue.

    Whats the sexual assault equivalent to the phrase if you owe the bank £100 and cant pay it back you have a problem. If you owe the bank £100 Trillion and cant pay it back the bank has a problem?
    It's one of those irregular verbs:

    I am an alpha-male fondler
    You are a lecherous groper
    He is an immigrant rapist
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Pulpstar, are you suggesting the value of Pence is declining?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Essexit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: NEW: Ukip MEP Mike Hookem accuses Steven Woolfe of faking collapse in European Parliament
    http://bit.ly/2e6WrIS pic.twitter.com/l4GI0L7bZ3

    He's accusing Steven of crying Woolfe?
    Badum-tish.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I still can't get over Saville. He's like one of the protagonists in 120 Days of Sodom.''

    Saville simply shows us how people are prepared to overlook crimes if the conditions are right.

    If you paint yourself as a crusading moralist, it really is quite amazing what you can get away with.

    And that, in parading Bill's alleged victims, is Trump's point.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963

    Mr. Pulpstar, are you suggesting the value of Pence is declining?

    The value of Pounds were declining last week, so Pence must have gone down too!
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Mr. Pulpstar, are you suggesting the value of Pence is declining?

    Groan...
  • Options

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Up yer bum. No really. You're a tool.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,322
    edited October 2016

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    Won't anyone think of the tax avoiders?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Quidder, don't groan, you varlet. My pun was magnificent.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    Yup. It will damage the whole brand if they aren't careful.

    When the Galaxy s8 comes out, people will be wary after this
    I can't find a link with a quick search, but there was a rumour going around a few weeks back that this phone had the first battery made by Samsung, out of a new battery factory. Previously all Samsung branded batteries were made by Japanese company Yuasa. Issues with pre-production models were dismissed as being prototypes, but it looks like the problems made it to production against a tight deadline of wanting to be on sale before the new iPhone.

    If that's true, then it could well affect a significant proportion of the company's product pipeline, as the packaging would be designed around the new batteries.
    Well the biggest problem for Samsung is the rejection of the device by China's regulator. Having a product deemed unsafe, replacing the faulty part for that region and not for the rest of the world is going to lead to huge fines.
    Yes, that was the detail of the story. The Chinese regulator didn't accept the battery so all Chinese market Note 7s had a different unit installed. They nonetheless shipped the original product everywhere else in the world. That's got "class action for negligence, in the US" written all over it.
  • Options
    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,463
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h1 hour ago
    / @MikeGapes .. and if there were a general election Theresa may would win it.

    No sh** Sherlock...
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Frank Luntz
    On the first policy question (Obamacare) Trump is scoring higher than Hillary.

    The reason? He's actually naming specifics. #debate https://t.co/DHrvlnS8pt

    Some fascinating tidbits came out of his focus group
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,322
    edited October 2016
    taffys said:

    ''I still can't get over Saville. He's like one of the protagonists in 120 Days of Sodom.''

    Saville simply shows us how people are prepared to overlook crimes if the conditions are right.

    If you paint yourself as a crusading moralist, it really is quite amazing what you can get away with.

    And that, in parading Bill's alleged victims, is Trump's point.

    Whatever Savile was guilty of (plenty), I don't think he ever painted himself as a moralist. In fact Savile's constant innuendos about his supposed 'love life' are some of the sleaziest bits in the remaining footage of him.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,099

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    I don't think they ever will. Petrol is insanely energy dense.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2016

    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.

    My wife is holding on to her ballot for the remote chance that Trump gets booted but will otherwise vote Johnson. As she put it last night: he may be an idiot but at least he's a sensible idiot.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    Sean_F said:

    MikeK said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    Even if his risible assertion were true - does the liberal elite think savages and barbarians shouldn't have the vote?
    I'd restrict the vote to people with incomes over £150k per annum.

    You can't let important descisions be determinded by uneducated plebs.
    I'd give people a variable number of votes, calculated by the total income tax they have payed to the UK Exchequer in their lifetime multiplied by their IQ. That would iron out the wrinkles in democracy....
    you'd have given a truckload of votes to Jimmy Saville :)
    There's always somebody who is going bitch about the electorate....
    I still can't get over Saville. He's like one of the protagonists in 120 Days of Sodom.
    I caught up with the Louis Theroux update on Saville recently. There's a fantastic moment of television where Louis is talking to one of Saville's victims, saying how he didn't see it coming, how he saw Saville as a friend "He groomed you too..." was the victims response. Despite trying to brush it away, you could see it had hit him in the solar plexus....
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    I don't think they ever will. Petrol is insanely energy dense.
    Hmm....We don't yet know how to properly control basic particles. I think one day we will. There is, of course, more energy contained in a mobile phone battery than is required to send a supertanker a million times around the world - if you think of it as simply a store of mass that can be converted to energy at an exchange rate involving the speed of light squared. We'll get there. Can't say when but it will come. Nanoscale nuclear reactors are the way to go! In your pocket, your car, your house, everywhere.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    taffys said:

    ''I still can't get over Saville. He's like one of the protagonists in 120 Days of Sodom.''

    Saville simply shows us how people are prepared to overlook crimes if the conditions are right.

    If you paint yourself as a crusading moralist, it really is quite amazing what you can get away with.

    And that, in parading Bill's alleged victims, is Trump's point.

    And his problem is that it is a good point. Hillary is teflon, for present purposes.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. P, depends where the dividing line falls as to the impact.

    If we stay in the customs union and have the EU dictating our tariffs with other countries, leaving us unable to negotiate free trade deals, I think that would go down poorly with the electorate.

    With UKIP also undergoing civil war, there's a small but serious prospect of a massive Conservative split.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.

    That's what I posted on PB the other day, from conference I got the feeling the Liberal/Economic Leavers weren't happy with the way we were headed for a hard Brexit.

    It really does screw the economy.
  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    A very long time, probably never, I should think.

    Petrol has a specific energy of 46.4 MJ/kg, while the best rechargeable batteries have specific energies of less than 1 MJ/kg with increasingly diminishing returns from intense development over the past few years. I imagine there are probably hard physical limits that prevent battery technology from ever reaching the specific energies of hydrocarbon fuels.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Just rewatching the debate, we've got to the bit where the female moderator decides that Hillary isn't doing well enough on foreign military strategy - so decided to insert herself instead.

    They simply can't resist butting in.
  • Options
    England being 'othered' again, by an..er..Englishman.

    'Don’t let England be rebranded as a nation of bigots

    We are in a bad place, but we didn’t get there overnight. Over the past 10 years or so, a small set of English people and organisations have led the toxic recasting of their country. Nigel Farage and his de facto English nationalist party didn’t just push the EU to the top of the political agenda, they also created the impression that they spoke for a forgotten nation. And then there were the English grassroots Conservatives, most of whom raged against David Cameron’s modernisation drive, such as it was. A big role has also been played by the great minds at those self-consciously English media outlets, the Mail and the Express. Witness the Mail’s “Who will speak for England?” front page, used this year to open its campaigning against the EU.'

    http://tinyurl.com/z4cfmyj

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963
    Charles said:

    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.

    My wife is holding on to her ballot for the remote chance that Trump gets booted but will otherwise vote Johnson. As she put it last night: he may be an idiot but at least he's a sensible idiot.
    Johnsons a little weird, but at least he is honest and trustworthy - two things that can't be said of the main party candidates.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    I don't think they ever will. Petrol is insanely energy dense.
    McLaren applied technology has a new battery under development which is said to double existing density, they are going to use it in the 18/18 Formula E series. It won't be competitive with gasoline based products, but it will extend EV range quite significantly.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    That's what I posted on PB the other day, from conference I got the feeling the Liberal/Economic Leavers weren't happy with the way we were headed for a hard Brexit.

    It really does screw the economy.

    If only someone had pointed that out before the vote!

    Oh, wait...
  • Options
    Charles said:

    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.

    My wife is holding on to her ballot for the remote chance that Trump gets booted but will otherwise vote Johnson. As she put it last night: he may be an idiot but at least he's a sensible idiot.
    The most likely scenario seems to be Hilary wins but is impotent with Repubs controlling both houses - which dosent bode well for for years time.

    The only hope Trump has is that enough middle class (in the British sense) Americans see the prospect of Hillary Nominating Supreme Court Judges as a bigger issue than Trumps personality. I doubt that is the case though.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.

    Does no-one understand negotiation among Tory MPs, or are they hoping that Cameron's negotiating style will work a second time..?

    If we don't start by saying we'll walk away from a crap deal, then a crap deal is what we will be getting.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    That's what I posted on PB the other day, from conference I got the feeling the Liberal/Economic Leavers weren't happy with the way we were headed for a hard Brexit.

    It really does screw the economy.

    If only someone had pointed that out before the vote!

    Oh, wait...
    I had great fun at conference winding up the liberal leavers.

    They were going full Dan Hannan and saying the referendum had nothing to do with immigration.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Sandpit, quite.

    The timing of any vote is nonsense too. If it's now, then it's either a rubber stamp or a slap in the face for the electorate. If it's when the deal's been negotiated, the only alternative to acceptance is the hardest of all possible departures.

    There are issues about economy and trade, but acting like suppliants rather than one side of a negotiation is not wise.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,799

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.

    That's what I posted on PB the other day, from conference I got the feeling the Liberal/Economic Leavers weren't happy with the way we were headed for a hard Brexit.

    It really does screw the economy.
    Dominic Raab:

    Should the EU impose tariffs, forcing the UK to reciprocate, the UK government would rake in an estimated £12 billion each year (on top of the £10 billion from not paying an EU membership fee). This can be used to support vulnerable business sectors. It would be the ultimate schadenfreude, if it were to be German car manufacturers and French farmers compensating British businesses, bruised by vindictive bureaucrats in Brussels.

    Britain can flourish with even the worst deal. But how can we get the best?
    \

    http://tinyurl.com/z6pz9js
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sandpit said:

    Does no-one understand negotiation among Tory MPs, or are they hoping that Cameron's negotiating style will work a second time..?

    If we don't start by saying we'll walk away from a crap deal, then a crap deal is what we will be getting.

    The problem is our current position appears to be aiming directly for the worst possible deal
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.

    Does no-one understand negotiation among Tory MPs, or are they hoping that Cameron's negotiating style will work a second time..?

    If we don't start by saying we'll walk away from a crap deal, then a crap deal is what we will be getting.
    Surely the basic problem with Cameron's negotiation was not his unwillingness to walk away but that he was not asking for anything in particular?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,099

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    A very long time, probably never, I should think.

    Petrol has a specific energy of 46.4 MJ/kg, while the best rechargeable batteries have specific energies of less than 1 MJ/kg with increasingly diminishing returns from intense development over the past few years. I imagine there are probably hard physical limits that prevent battery technology from ever reaching the specific energies of hydrocarbon fuels.
    Although one needs to remember it's not like-for-like. A lot more of the battery's energy will be converted to motive power than the petrol's.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    A very long time, probably never, I should think.

    Petrol has a specific energy of 46.4 MJ/kg, while the best rechargeable batteries have specific energies of less than 1 MJ/kg with increasingly diminishing returns from intense development over the past few years. I imagine there are probably hard physical limits that prevent battery technology from ever reaching the specific energies of hydrocarbon fuels.
    Thanks for the figures!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,963
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another reason to stick with Apple

    Samsung’s smartphone recall crisis has deepened after South Korean media said the tech giant had suspended production of its troubled Galaxy Note 7 model amid reports that replacement devices had caught fire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/10/samsung-halts-production-galaxy-note-7-phone-battery-fires?CMP=twt_gu

    One of the *replacement* devices caught fire on a plane in the US last week. Luckily while it was on the ground.

    Samsung are probably best off admitting defeat and cancelling the Note 7 product now, the rushed replacement didn't work.

    What this does illustrate is how close to the cutting edge we are working with battery technology these days, if a company with the resources of Samsung can screw it up so spectacularly.
    I feel sorry for Samsung on this. There but for the grace of God go I (or at least some of my ex-colleagues).

    Phone manufacturers want increased battery life from smaller batteries. The state-of-the-art allows you to push only so far before you touch the bleeding edge.
    Absolutely. Samsung are just the latest in a long line of boundary-pushers who pushed too far. Remember a few years ago Boeing managed to put a flammable battery in the middle of their 787 Dreamliner, and there were a few exploding Teslas in the early days too. It's not just the cheap Chinese wheelboard thingies.
    I always thank the Lord that he gave us energy sources with high densities and easy transportability as coal and oil. Imagine if we had no fossil fuels: how would we have managed to have an industrial revolution?

    I wonder how long it will be before batteries get the same, or better, energy density as petrol?
    I don't think they ever will. Petrol is insanely energy dense.
    McLaren applied technology has a new battery under development which is said to double existing density, they are going to use it in the 18/18 Formula E series. It won't be competitive with gasoline based products, but it will extend EV range quite significantly.
    Yes, the F1 teams have been working hard on energy efficiency, they really should be shouting from the roof about it more than they do. Opening up the development of FE should advance that formula quickly, advantage to the first team that doesn't have to change to a new car half way through the race!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,125
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Trouble ahead for PM. Tory Leavers now joining Remainers in revolt on hard Brexit. Stephen Phillips pushing for emergency debate, voted out.

    Does no-one understand negotiation among Tory MPs, or are they hoping that Cameron's negotiating style will work a second time..?

    If we don't start by saying we'll walk away from a crap deal, then a crap deal is what we will be getting.
    We'll be getting a bad deal anyway. There are conflicting forces at play, but the biggest is the EU's desire *not* to encourage other countries to leave. That means we get a poor deal by default.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Charles said:

    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.

    My wife is holding on to her ballot for the remote chance that Trump gets booted but will otherwise vote Johnson. As she put it last night: he may be an idiot but at least he's a sensible idiot.
    The most likely scenario seems to be Hilary wins but is impotent with Repubs controlling both houses - which dosent bode well for for years time.

    The only hope Trump has is that enough middle class (in the British sense) Americans see the prospect of Hillary Nominating Supreme Court Judges as a bigger issue than Trumps personality. I doubt that is the case though.
    Trump has made himself very unattractive to the middle classes, esp women and minorities. Its his own fault as well.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    I think I would have to vote Johnson if I had a vote. Even at the price of letting the dreaded Clinton win. And what a price that is.

    I'm glad I don't get a vote and just get to eat popcorn and watch. The future certainly isnt bright and orange though, whoever wins.

    My wife is holding on to her ballot for the remote chance that Trump gets booted but will otherwise vote Johnson. As she put it last night: he may be an idiot but at least he's a sensible idiot.
    I dont really understand why they didn't just expel him from the party for bringing it into disrepute during the primaries
This discussion has been closed.