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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This will go down as one of the classic Andrew Neil intervi

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  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    taffys said:
    I got as far as 'The Radical Reaction ...' in the URL and assumed it was yet another story about Maomentum.
  • MTimT said:

    It would have been more amusing if the sayings of Yogi Berra were what was used to illustrate his main points

    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness Chakrabarti handled him as well as any and better than most. He is tenacious and difficult to deal with but she answered the questions in a straightforward way.

    And I am not especially a fan.

    I agree, that looked like a no-wicket maiden to me.
    Excellent analogy. Superb bowling and a reasonably straight bat with a deep reluctance to touch anything outside off stump.

    Makes me wonder how people who don't have cricket really get an understanding of the world.
    I read a book by an American author who explained his propositions in terms of baseball all the way through. Being wholly ignorant of baseball, I found his arguments extremely hard to follow.

    (Good evening, everyone)
    No one quotes him anymore. He's too popular.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I haven't had time to check in for a while, but what is the situation with the European banking problems?

    Deutsche Bank bailout and Commerzbank making 20% cuts in Germany, HETA being described as the worst banking issue in Austria since just after the war and the Italians seem to have untold problems.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    This is dangerous for Clinton. Some states you canregister on the day, right?

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-could-elect-trump-but-first-they-need-to-register/

    CO, DC, ID, IA, ME, MN, MT, NH, RI, WI, WY.

    Not much fertile ground there for Trump, apart from perhaps CO?
    Iowa should definitely be in his cross-hairs, ahead of CO. New Hampshire and Wisconsin should be level pegging in his attentions with CO. District 2 of Maine?
  • BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    FPT

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    That's the difference between, private enterprise and a Government bureaucracy! especially an entrepreneur as successful as Elon Musk, and government agency, as bad as the Department for Transport!

    Imagine what the Railways would be like if the government has never interfered with them!

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png#/media/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png
    They would have looked much like this and would look much like this in the future if the government stopped 'interfering' by subsidising it.

    Railways are still very labour intensive and labour costs have risen rather faster than both inflation and fares since 1914. Better alternatives to short diatance rail freight than horses and carts have also been invented.


    https://www.railnews.co.uk/img/medium/news00333.jpg
    The 'Subsidies' just attract subsidy junkies and crony capitalists, Not the men of ambition and talent, wanting to push the limits of engineering to make things that customers want, or would want if only they existed. like Elon Musk!

    Urrrm, perhaps you should investigate the subsidies Musk's companies have received from the state ...

    NASA is essentially paying for SpaceX.

    E.g.: http://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-subsidy-aggregation-1466638430
    Its a fair point that both Space X and Tesla, tack money in different ways form the state.

    but nether of his last 2 successes including PayPal, did. SpaceX puts things in to orbit for a number of organisations including NASA, this is because he has developed the new technology to do it that is better than anybody else. TESLA mocks electric cars that are subsidised, but any company could do this its Elon Musk that has worked out how to use technology to make the best cars, in large numbers, relatively cheaply.

    His mission to Mars is basically in competition to NASA, and he has IMHO already shown he is better at space travel with 12 years experience than NASA with 55ish.

    It is complex, I still consider him a Libertarian hero, and I respect your opinion if you disagree with me.
    Oh, I like him, and what he's doing. But that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him. Not that the subsidies require much criticism: it's not only the way it is done in the US; it's the only way it can be done, given the costs.

    I admit I don't know much about SolarCity, which is probably the most curious of his ventures, capital-wise.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    It would have been more amusing if the sayings of Yogi Berra were what was used to illustrate his main points

    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness Chakrabarti handled him as well as any and better than most. He is tenacious and difficult to deal with but she answered the questions in a straightforward way.

    And I am not especially a fan.

    I agree, that looked like a no-wicket maiden to me.
    Excellent analogy. Superb bowling and a reasonably straight bat with a deep reluctance to touch anything outside off stump.

    Makes me wonder how people who don't have cricket really get an understanding of the world.
    I read a book by an American author who explained his propositions in terms of baseball all the way through. Being wholly ignorant of baseball, I found his arguments extremely hard to follow.

    (Good evening, everyone)
    No one quotes him anymore. He's too popular.
    :)
  • BreakingSouthampton statement
    More Daily Telegraph revelations

    Southampton
    Posted at
    21:19
    Southampton Football Club has today been made aware by the Daily Telegraph that, as part of their on-going investigation, the club's assistant first team manager Eric Black will feature as part of an article in tomorrow's paper.
    The club immediately requested to be sent, by the Daily Telegraph, the details of this article, but the newspaper declined to share any further information. We have today contacted The FA and the Premier League, and intend to work closely with both bodies on this matter when the facts become clear.
    Southampton Football Club is fully committed to investigating any situation that directly or indirectly relates to our club, employees or the wider community.
  • BreakingSouthampton statement
    More Daily Telegraph revelations

    Southampton
    Posted at
    21:19
    Southampton Football Club has today been made aware by the Daily Telegraph that, as part of their on-going investigation, the club's assistant first team manager Eric Black will feature as part of an article in tomorrow's paper.
    The club immediately requested to be sent, by the Daily Telegraph, the details of this article, but the newspaper declined to share any further information. We have today contacted The FA and the Premier League, and intend to work closely with both bodies on this matter when the facts become clear.
    Southampton Football Club is fully committed to investigating any situation that directly or indirectly relates to our club, employees or the wider community.

    https://media.giphy.com/media/pmpTiiqJlgccU/giphy.gif
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    Alistair said:

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    nunu said:

    This is dangerous for Clinton. Some states you canregister on the day, right?

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-could-elect-trump-but-first-they-need-to-register/

    Absolutely, but the Pub GOTV operation is threadbare amd doesn't have the level of quality analytics behind it that the Dem operation does.

    Put it this way, the Dems will have a far better idea who the Republicans can and should try and turn out than the Republicans do.
    Off topic, has anyone heard from IOS recently? :D
    The Dems will be spending 9 figures on polling, 5 to 10 thousand sample per battleground state per week.

    Every person (actual individual person) in the country with metrics attached he'd to them about how likely they will vote and how likely they will vote Dem.

    The Dem GOTV operation is machine - the software backing it has been commercialised and used in business.
    A Get Out To Vote operation and Data Metrics can make the difference in close elections.

    It doesn't give you more than 1-2%, it helps on the margins but doesn't guarantee victory as Remain and Labour can prove.

    Hillary is leading by far more than 1% in almost all swing states, she is going to win because Trump is proving to be an idiot.

    The only thing that Trump is right in this campaign is that Data is overrated.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    FPT
    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    The way @CD13 is talking anyone would think we're all a load of nutters on PB.COM!!!!!








    Er...
  • MaxPB said:

    @MaxPB @Scott_P Here record at Liberty was exemplary. Whether she self identifies as a liberal I don't know but she clearly is one. As for the peerage she could have had one at any point in the last 10 years from any of the three big parties ( as was ).She didn't need to produce a whitewash report to get one. Which doesn't mean she didn't just that she didn't need to if she did.

    YS, her record at Liberty is spotty at best. Where was she when the government introduced hate speech laws, where was she when the press shied away from printing Mohammed cartoons? Where was she when Majeed Nawaz was being persecuted for wearing an inoffensive T-shirt. The answer to all of them is a big resounding nowhere. That she could have received a peerage at any time was the same as the Batman lady and Kids Company getting so much air time among the top political circles despite everything that was wrong there.

    You're judgement has gone completely mad in the last few months, not everything is Brexit or Bremain. Shami was a poor head of Liberty and we should be thankful that she's out, her report into anti-Semitism within the Labour party is just the latest in a long line of failures and Corbyn has rewarded that failure (or success depending on one's point of view) with a peerage. It proves that he is the same as any other politician, nothing more and nothing less.
    Well said.

    I can think of several pb'ers who'd make simply superb heads of Liberty: stodge, Cyclefree..

    Chakrabarti was risibly ineffective.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    BreakingSouthampton statement
    More Daily Telegraph revelations

    Southampton
    Posted at
    21:19
    Southampton Football Club has today been made aware by the Daily Telegraph that, as part of their on-going investigation, the club's assistant first team manager Eric Black will feature as part of an article in tomorrow's paper.
    The club immediately requested to be sent, by the Daily Telegraph, the details of this article, but the newspaper declined to share any further information. We have today contacted The FA and the Premier League, and intend to work closely with both bodies on this matter when the facts become clear.
    Southampton Football Club is fully committed to investigating any situation that directly or indirectly relates to our club, employees or the wider community.

    So far this scandal has not hit the P.L. big teams yet.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    BigRich said:

    Its a fair point that both Space X and Tesla, tack money in different ways form the state.

    but nether of his last 2 successes including PayPal, did. SpaceX puts things in to orbit for a number of organisations including NASA, this is because he has developed the new technology to do it that is better than anybody else. TESLA mocks electric cars that are subsidised, but any company could do this its Elon Musk that has worked out how to use technology to make the best cars, in large numbers, relatively cheaply.

    His mission to Mars is basically in competition to NASA, and he has IMHO already shown he is better at space travel with 12 years experience than NASA with 55ish.

    It is complex, I still consider him a Libertarian hero, and I respect your opinion if you disagree with me.
    Oh, I like him, and what he's doing. But that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him. Not that the subsidies require much criticism: it's not only the way it is done in the US; it's the only way it can be done, given the costs.

    I admit I don't know much about SolarCity, which is probably the most curious of his ventures, capital-wise.
    Personally, I think if it was not for all the subsidies in the economy, especially indirect subsidies by regulation of competition and support of monopoly power, we would already be so wealthy and advanced that we may already be on Mars.

    Nobody is above being criticised, and its notable that he doesn't talk about his libertarian beliefs so much nowadays, maybe he has changed his opinions, but more likely he doesn't want to annoy the politicians/bureaucrats that are now involved in his businesses. Pity, but he is still moving the ball forward!
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    why has Nevada gone slightly blue on 538 I can't see any new polls there.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Incidentally, despite being right about almost everything to do with the US election I realise now I was wrong about the effect the empty SCOTUS seat would have on the election.

    I thought it would be a key point of the election but I now realise it is the M.A.D of the election. The first side to go hard on SCOTUS loses as they will energise their opponents base and the opponents waverers.

    It's only the Trump side that has talked about potential nominees.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    nunu said:

    why has Nevada gone slightly blue on 538 I can't see any new polls there.

    538 uses national polls too to make out what the states should look like.

    Even I have a table that puts Nevada tied if Hillary leads by 4 nationally.

    At 4 points Trump should be leading by just about 1% in NE-02, and Iowa, tied in Nevada, and trailing by 1 in Florida and N.Carolina, by 2 in Ohio, by 5 in Wisconsin and by 6 in Michigan and Colorado, Pennsylvania and N.H should be 7.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755

    MaxPB said:

    @MaxPB @Scott_P Here record at Liberty was exemplary. Whether she self identifies as a liberal I don't know but she clearly is one. As for the peerage she could have had one at any point in the last 10 years from any of the three big parties ( as was ).She didn't need to produce a whitewash report to get one. Which doesn't mean she didn't just that she didn't need to if she did.

    YS, her record at Liberty is spotty at best. Where was she when the government introduced hate speech laws, where was she when the press shied away from printing Mohammed cartoons? Where was she when Majeed Nawaz was being persecuted for wearing an inoffensive T-shirt. The answer to all of them is a big resounding nowhere. That she could have received a peerage at any time was the same as the Batman lady and Kids Company getting so much air time among the top political circles despite everything that was wrong there.

    You're judgement has gone completely mad in the last few months, not everything is Brexit or Bremain. Shami was a poor head of Liberty and we should be thankful that she's out, her report into anti-Semitism within the Labour party is just the latest in a long line of failures and Corbyn has rewarded that failure (or success depending on one's point of view) with a peerage. It proves that he is the same as any other politician, nothing more and nothing less.
    Well said.

    I can think of several pb'ers who'd make simply superb heads of Liberty: stodge, Cyclefree..

    Chakrabarti was risibly ineffective.
    If I were an illegal immigrant who'd started a family in the UK, and then committed a serious crime, I can think of no one I'd rather have on my side than Shami Chakrabati.

    If I were accused of a speech crime, I'd expect a deafening silence from her.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
  • Christ alive, its getting lower, £2k is enough to bribe assistant manager at a Championship club. Championship wages are still extremely high, WTF are these people doing.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Watching the Chakrabarti interview, I couldn't help but think that when the Corbyn edifice crumbles, which it will do, the recriminations against his cronies will be merciless. They will be put to the sword. Which is why I am surprised with Chakrabarti with allying herself to Corbyn.

    People like Clive Lewis need to start positioning themselves now. This week we have already seen Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner putting the boot in. I think Corbyn will be gone sooner rather than later.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,930
    chestnut said:

    I haven't had time to check in for a while, but what is the situation with the European banking problems?

    Deutsche Bank bailout and Commerzbank making 20% cuts in Germany, HETA being described as the worst banking issue in Austria since just after the war and the Italians seem to have untold problems.

    Commerzbank has long been the most overstaffed bank in northern Europe. I think they are cynically using Deutsche Bank's major problems to reduce costs to a more appropriate level.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,119
    edited September 2016

    Christ alive, its getting lower, £2k is enough to bribe assistant manager at a Championship club. Championship wages are still extremely high, WTF are these people doing.

    Many people live on 105% of their salary. A friend who does private banking has, as a major part of his job, doing debt restructuring, forcing asset sales etc to get the overspent rich back to reality. Think mansion, yachts... together with a dozen credit cards all maxed out.
  • TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    Agreed. Eric Black does little talking and steers the conversation away from any need for payments. The talk of money comes from McGarvey. Worst Eric Black does is not to immediately shut down his "friend" McGarvey. McGarvey is a real sleazeball.
  • On topic,

    Shami Chakrabarti as Shadow Attorney General and Richard Burgon as Shadow Justice Secretary, the Tories will be rightly afraid of the awesome calibre of Labour on legal and justice affairs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016

    Christ alive, its getting lower, £2k is enough to bribe assistant manager at a Championship club. Championship wages are still extremely high, WTF are these people doing.

    Many people live on 105% of their salary. A friend who does private banking has, as a major part of his job, doing debt restructuring, forcing asset sales etc to get the overspent rich back to reality. Think mansion, yachts... together with a dozen credit cards all maxed out.
    I can well imagine and especially in an industry like entertainment were you can be earning £10k a week this week and nothing next week. However, £2-5k....JFH asking for £50k to go and do some "speaking", that seems much more in line with what I wound have expected as the minimum to get somebody to be interested in doing any sort of work, legal or otherwise.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Alistair said:

    Incidentally, despite being right about almost everything to do with the US election I realise now I was wrong about the effect the empty SCOTUS seat would have on the election.

    I thought it would be a key point of the election but I now realise it is the M.A.D of the election. The first side to go hard on SCOTUS loses as they will energise their opponents base and the opponents waverers.

    It's only the Trump side that has talked about potential nominees.

    Wrong.

    Nobody cares about court appointments except "Washington Insiders", on the voters priority list it should be at the bottom, but on the donors and party machinery list it's on the top.

    For Trump it's the only carrot he has to try get those GOP Washington Insiders and Donors to his camp.
    While Hillary has Trump as her biggest weapon.

    If Trump did not come off as a stupid deranged idiot, Hillary would have real trouble keeping the democrats and the media on her side.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
    No, the clip isn't explosive, it isn't 110% clear on camera what Black is saying an assistant manager in the championship will do for £2k, but the Telegraph has said the premise of all these meetings is as I stated above. I somehow doubt it as as the entertainment for a family party.

    What it is just another snippet into the way in which the world of football managers and agents appears to operate.

    What we don't know is what aren't the Telegraph showing us. We learned with the expenses stuff, 1) the Telegraph liked to not show everything to give people a chance to dig their own grave and 2) they pushed an agenda that wasn't always there.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Christ alive, its getting lower, £2k is enough to bribe assistant manager at a Championship club. Championship wages are still extremely high, WTF are these people doing.

    They are probably living the SeanT high life.

    Or it could be that bribes and match fixing is a significant source of revenue and everybody does it.

    We don't now how many bribes a year or how many match fixings these people do.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited September 2016

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
    No, the clip isn't explosive, it is just another snippet into the way in which the world of football managers and agents appears to operate.

    What we don't know is what aren't the Telegraph showing us. We learned with the expenses stuff, 1) the Telegraph liked to not show everything to give people a chance to dig their own grave and 2) they pushed an agenda that wasn't always there.
    I think like the expenses and the TUEs and now this, it is the system that needs overhauling and that in so doing there will be if not innocent then less guilty bystanders as collateral damage.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    They were warned...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    Christ alive, its getting lower, £2k is enough to bribe assistant manager at a Championship club. Championship wages are still extremely high, WTF are these people doing.

    They are probably living the SeanT high life.

    Or it could be that bribes and match fixing is a significant source of revenue and everybody does it.

    We don't now how many bribes a year or how many match fixings these people do.
    The claim of shake down by a manager of player wages was a real jaw dropper for me. Its one thing thinking hey some multi-billionaire club owner / tv money is financing these transfers and I will take a little cut, but shaking down your own players that is proper special mafia style scum baggery.
  • OGH's pro-REMAIN bias :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
    No, the clip isn't explosive, it is just another snippet into the way in which the world of football managers and agents appears to operate.

    What we don't know is what aren't the Telegraph showing us. We learned with the expenses stuff, 1) the Telegraph liked to not show everything to give people a chance to dig their own grave and 2) they pushed an agenda that wasn't always there.
    I think like the expenses and the TUEs and now this, it is the system that needs overhauling and that in so doing there will be if not innocent then less guilty bystanders as collateral damage.
    As Gary Lineker stated today, anybody but the player paying agents for transfers has got to stop. Two clubs should agree a transfer and then the player has a representative agree a contract for him, then the player pays the representative for that work.

    And all of this should be made public, so it can be checked.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited September 2016

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
    No, the clip isn't explosive, it is just another snippet into the way in which the world of football managers and agents appears to operate.

    What we don't know is what aren't the Telegraph showing us. We learned with the expenses stuff, 1) the Telegraph liked to not show everything to give people a chance to dig their own grave and 2) they pushed an agenda that wasn't always there.
    I think like the expenses and the TUEs and now this, it is the system that needs overhauling and that in so doing there will be if not innocent then less guilty bystanders as collateral damage.
    As Gary Lineker stated today, anybody but the player paying agents for transfers has got to stop. Two clubs should agree a transfer and then the player has a representative agree a contract for him, then the player pays the representative for that work.

    And all of this should be made public, so it can be checked.
    Most professional anythings have agents. Is there a difference between an agent taking 10% (or some agreed figure) and a part owner doing the same?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited September 2016
    Deleted duplicates
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited September 2016
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not at all clear what the fuck he is advising tbh.
    As i understand the whole sting revolves around managers / assistant managers being bribed to convince them to buy / sell players off this same agent that is in all the meetings. And the Telegraph are posing as Far East "investors" who want to own 3rd party rights to players (or to something similar to that).

    So again the suggestion is that £2k will get you an assistant manager at a Championship club to encourage his club to buy certain players.
    Hmm thx. I'm sure therefore that that clip is explosive. But there doesn't seem to be a slam dunk for the layman to fix onto.
    No, the clip isn't explosive, it is just another snippet into the way in which the world of football managers and agents appears to operate.

    What we don't know is what aren't the Telegraph showing us. We learned with the expenses stuff, 1) the Telegraph liked to not show everything to give people a chance to dig their own grave and 2) they pushed an agenda that wasn't always there.
    I think like the expenses and the TUEs and now this, it is the system that needs overhauling and that in so doing there will be if not innocent then less guilty bystanders as collateral damage.
    As Gary Lineker stated today, anybody but the player paying agents for transfers has got to stop. Two clubs should agree a transfer and then the player has a representative agree a contract for him, then the player pays the representative for that work.

    And all of this should be made public, so it can be checked.
    Is there a difference between an agent taking 10% (or some agreed figure) and a part owner doing the same?
    Part owner of the player? 3rd party ownership is forbidden, but part of this sting surrounds some supposed way in which agents / backers get around this.

    Nothing wrong with agent getting his cut after the work. But more and more, it has been found that clubs have been paying agents supposed to get them players, but again this expose seems to show there is dodgyness going on where it is in a few key people interest to make certain players move as often as possible.

    Panorama 2006 really showed how it goes down. It was thought it had changed, but it appears it hasn't.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited September 2016
    Having a shocker here on my iPhone
  • They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....
  • 619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    Err, and Clinton has never broken US law?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2016
    619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    No legal problems, statute of limitations has run out. It is purely a PR issue now.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Newsnight — Ben Emmerson has resigned.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    They were warned...
    There are three major political tides that will unravel next year faster than a whore's drawers:
    -Corbyn's grip on the Labour party
    -Brexit
    -Theresa May

    Corbyn will go down because he combines a mixture of dobber the donkey and old man Steptoe without the intelligence. The Chancey Gardner of UK politics will come a cropper sadly for his zealots
    Brexit...I just point you to the wise words of Ken Clarke and again sadly for the zealots, many of whom lurk these parts
    Theresa May, because she comes across as control freak who is much too concerned with headlines (a la Gordon Brown).....and since she has no friends her end will be sad for nobody which is sad in itself....
  • Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.
  • AndyJS said:

    Newsnight — Ben Emmerson has resigned.

    Newsnight with the breaking news we knew errrh yesterday...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2016
    Newsnight on the Child Abuse investigation.

    Surely this is a scam by barristers to keep themselves in work? It seems to have no other function.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    " registered Democrats are 138 percent of where they were in 2012, and registered Republicans are 77 percent of their 2012 numbers on the same day."- This is culmulative so far.

    Repubs are way underpreforming Democrats in North Carolina Abstentee ballots, that seems really bad even accounting for historic Democrat voters who vote Republican, are we seeing the effects of a poor gound game vs. a good one? 86,000 abstentee ballots have been requested so far so will b crucial considering Romney only won the state by 96,000.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    Incidentally, despite being right about almost everything to do with the US election I realise now I was wrong about the effect the empty SCOTUS seat would have on the election.

    I thought it would be a key point of the election but I now realise it is the M.A.D of the election. The first side to go hard on SCOTUS loses as they will energise their opponents base and the opponents waverers.

    It's only the Trump side that has talked about potential nominees.

    Wrong.

    Nobody cares about court appointments except "Washington Insiders", on the voters priority list it should be at the bottom,
    SCOTUS is a proxy for the culture wars. Anti-abortion and 2nd Amendment proponents care deeply about SCOTUS.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tyson said:

    They were warned...
    There are three major political tides that will unravel next year faster than a whore's drawers:
    -Corbyn's grip on the Labour party
    -Brexit
    -Theresa May

    Corbyn will go down because he combines a mixture of dobber the donkey and old man Steptoe without the intelligence. The Chancey Gardner of UK politics will come a cropper sadly for his zealots
    Brexit...I just point you to the wise words of Ken Clarke and again sadly for the zealots, many of whom lurk these parts
    Theresa May, because she comes across as control freak who is much too concerned with headlines (a la Gordon Brown).....and since she has no friends her end will be sad for nobody which is sad in itself....
    Sounds about right to me.

    Shami for Labour leader! Surely that is what she is looking for...
  • TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Maybe we can double Corbyn's pot to a clean trillion to subsidise anything and everything that needs a little help post Brexit.....

    Post Brexit, we will see a return to the cack handed Govt approach to business that we saw in the 70's
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784

    619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    Err, and Clinton has never broken US law?
    clinton had a massive investigation into her and was exonerated. A similar investigation into trump will only be fair...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    619 said:

    619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    Err, and Clinton has never broken US law?
    clinton had a massive investigation into her and was exonerated. A similar investigation into trump will only be fair...
    What was Trump flogging to the Cubans?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Alistair said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    Incidentally, despite being right about almost everything to do with the US election I realise now I was wrong about the effect the empty SCOTUS seat would have on the election.

    I thought it would be a key point of the election but I now realise it is the M.A.D of the election. The first side to go hard on SCOTUS loses as they will energise their opponents base and the opponents waverers.

    It's only the Trump side that has talked about potential nominees.

    Wrong.

    Nobody cares about court appointments except "Washington Insiders", on the voters priority list it should be at the bottom,
    SCOTUS is a proxy for the culture wars. Anti-abortion and 2nd Amendment proponents care deeply about SCOTUS.
    Indeed. Speedy showing again how little he knows about US politics.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784

    619 said:

    619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    Err, and Clinton has never broken US law?
    clinton had a massive investigation into her and was exonerated. A similar investigation into trump will only be fair...
    What was Trump flogging to the Cubans?
    http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-cuban-embargo-castro-violated-florida-504059?rm=eu
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Trump to interviewer on whether he'll change debate strategy: "I think you know I did a good job"
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "China embarked on wind power frenzy, says IEA"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37409069
  • 619 said:

    619 said:

    ooohh

    clinton just said trump may have broken US law with the cuba embargo breach

    conway just confirmed the story and said it was only a little money and 'not important'

    serious legal problems for trump here potentially....

    Err, and Clinton has never broken US law?
    clinton had a massive investigation into her and was exonerated. A similar investigation into trump will only be fair...
    What was Trump flogging to the Cubans?
    Apparently he spent $68k on the payment of expenses incurred on a visit by consultants from a US firm .

    Kellyanne Conway seemed to acknowledge that Trump had indeed spent money in Cuba.

    “It starts out with a screaming headline, as it usually does, that he did business in Cuba,” she said. “And it turns out that he decided not to invest there. They paid money, as I understand, in 1998."
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120

    tyson said:

    They were warned...
    There are three major political tides that will unravel next year faster than a whore's drawers:
    -Corbyn's grip on the Labour party
    -Brexit
    -Theresa May

    Corbyn will go down because he combines a mixture of dobber the donkey and old man Steptoe without the intelligence. The Chancey Gardner of UK politics will come a cropper sadly for his zealots
    Brexit...I just point you to the wise words of Ken Clarke and again sadly for the zealots, many of whom lurk these parts
    Theresa May, because she comes across as control freak who is much too concerned with headlines (a la Gordon Brown).....and since she has no friends her end will be sad for nobody which is sad in itself....
    Sounds about right to me.

    Shami for Labour leader! Surely that is what she is looking for...
    I think old man Jezza is a bit of sucker for some fluttering eyelashes. The Shami episode makes him look like a foolish old man. Maybe all those events where he's faced with hordes of adoring young women (well pretty much any woman is young compared to the old boy) has clouded his judgment.

    Roll on a couple of years and the old man will be back to taking photos of drain covers.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    tyson said:

    Watching the Chakrabarti interview, I couldn't help but think that when the Corbyn edifice crumbles, which it will do, the recriminations against his cronies will be merciless. They will be put to the sword. Which is why I am surprised with Chakrabarti with allying herself to Corbyn.

    People like Clive Lewis need to start positioning themselves now. This week we have already seen Andy Burnham and Angela Rayner putting the boot in. I think Corbyn will be gone sooner rather than later.

    Hope springs eternal I guess. I wish your side luck in this.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    The world has moved on since employees voted as their employers told them.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.

    With a £100bn trade leverage to play with and 27 different nations with hugely varying profits from their arrangements with us, I suspect we'll be doing a bit of 'playing off' ourselves.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @nsoamesmp: Have told my Constituency that contrary to what I announced in Feb I have decided that I am going,if they readopt me,to stand again #fighton
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
    A Corbyn led government would do just those things.

    It's not impossible...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    edited September 2016
    Sean_F said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    The world has moved on since employees voted as their employers told them.
    And that's good, but that doesn't prevent lack of sympathy if they face consequences as a result of their free choice. I doubt I'll get much sympathy if I'm negatively impacted by Brexit either.

    So many in such situations will cry out 'It's not fair' when in fact it is fair and that's why they are upset.
  • chestnut said:

    Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.

    With a £100bn trade leverage to play with and 27 different nations with hugely varying profits from their arrangements with us, I suspect we'll be doing a bit of 'playing off' ourselves.
    How will that work? "We'll give you a good deal to base your single market operations in the UK! Forget Hungary, Poland or Germany and come to the UK where the business climate is so much better. What's that? Can we guarantee that we'll even be in the single market? Well, no not exactly, but Europe will have to back down so don't you worry about that!"
  • Burgon on the Box in Boston

    Time to stop work and head to the telly.... he's the political Partridge
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    Scott_P said:

    @nsoamesmp: Have told my Constituency that contrary to what I announced in Feb I have decided that I am going,if they readopt me,to stand again #fighton

    Sure, why not. Hopefully Ken will change his mind too, that'll add to the gaiety of the nation. For the LDs too, Ken, you know it would be fun.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Adeyfield West (Dacorum) result:
    LDEM: 49.5% (+24.4)
    CON: 22.2% (-4.6)
    LAB: 15.8% (-8.7)
    UKIP: 10.9% (-12.7)
    GRN: 1.6% (+1.6)
  • Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
    A Corbyn led government would do just those things.

    It's not impossible...
    Some people seem to find comfort in the delusion that the Brits (or English) are congenitally immune to socialism, and seem to block out our recent history and the part played by our membership of the EU in taming the hard-left politics that used to cripple us.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
    A Corbyn led government would do just those things.

    It's not impossible...
    Some people seem to find comfort in the delusion that the Brits (or English) are congenitally immune to socialism, and seem to block out our recent history and the part played by our membership of the EU in taming the hard-left politics that used to cripple us.
    Indeed the roots of Corbyn's dislike of the EU is he wants no restraint on the socialisation of the British economy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,755

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
    A Corbyn led government would do just those things.

    It's not impossible...
    An asteroid attack is not impossible. But, it's unlikely.

    At the heart of the Remain argument seems to be view that the UK governments will do crazy economic things, or carry out barbaric social policies, outside of the EU.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    They were warned...
    Zero sympathy for the Nissan workers if they voted Leave. They were repeatedly warned but chose to listen to those who called it "scaremongering"
    We're leaving the EU to free ourselves to subside industry. A UK govt subsidy to Nissan is I'm sure exactly what the Brexiteers had in mind.
    Brexit means taking us back to the politics of the 70s. Anyone thinking we were going to become a giant Singapore will have to come to terms with having been useful idiots in a campaign which had nothing to do with their aspirations.
    Perhaps I'm reaching, but I think it unlikely any British government will legalise the closed shop and secondary picketing, or reinstate prices and incomes policies.
    I think you'll find young Sean is that as international capital starts looking externally to invest (as my wife's firm is), and UK based industries struggle competitively outside the single market...the UK Govt will start becoming more interventionist in it's industrial policy (right or left).

    I actually think that things will not go that far. Making money and capitalism is just too important. They'll figure a way out of the damned mess this stupid plebiscite got us into.

    The only way Brexit will become a success is if the EU crumbles too, and quickly. And I wouldn't put my house on that one.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.

    With a £100bn trade leverage to play with and 27 different nations with hugely varying profits from their arrangements with us, I suspect we'll be doing a bit of 'playing off' ourselves.
    How will that work? "We'll give you a good deal to base your single market operations in the UK! Forget Hungary, Poland or Germany and come to the UK where the business climate is so much better. What's that? Can we guarantee that we'll even be in the single market? Well, no not exactly, but Europe will have to back down so don't you worry about that!"
    Just some initial thoughts.

    We could look at the 24 EU nations running a surplus with us; maybe the 2600 (net) EU businesses that require a passport to operate here, maybe the application of selective tariffs to divide them if they tariff the UK?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Adeyfield West

    LD 520
    Con 233
    Lab 166
    UKIP 115
    Green 17
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tompeck: Why are Nissan talking Britain down? Don't they know we took back control? twitter.com/peston/status/…
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Massive remainer wibble over Sunderland tonight.

    How many redundancies have been announced again??
  • chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.

    With a £100bn trade leverage to play with and 27 different nations with hugely varying profits from their arrangements with us, I suspect we'll be doing a bit of 'playing off' ourselves.
    How will that work? "We'll give you a good deal to base your single market operations in the UK! Forget Hungary, Poland or Germany and come to the UK where the business climate is so much better. What's that? Can we guarantee that we'll even be in the single market? Well, no not exactly, but Europe will have to back down so don't you worry about that!"
    Just some initial thoughts.

    We could look at the 24 EU nations running a surplus with us; maybe the 2600 (net) EU businesses that require a passport to operate here, maybe the application of selective tariffs to divide them if they tariff the UK?
    Selective tariffs? That would be like trying to apply selective tariffs to different US states.

    We'd become the first developed country of the modern era to descend into rogue state status within the international system.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited September 2016
    @britainelects: Liberal Democrat GAIN Stow (Cotswold) from Conservative.

    @britainelects: Stow (Cotswold) result:
    LDEM: 64.9% (+21.0)
    CON: 35.1% (-21.0)
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2016
    taffys said:

    Massive remainer wibble over Sunderland tonight.

    How many redundancies have been announced again??

    They seem to have forgotten that WTO tariffs give the exchequer a projected £9bn to 'compensate' business with.

    Nissan's 'compensation' will be paid by BMW,
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited September 2016
    ''At the heart of the Remain argument seems to be view that the UK governments will do crazy economic things, or carry out barbaric social policies, outside of the EU.''

    At the heart of the remainer argument is a contempt for the capabilities and potential of the country they live in, in favour of a rotting customs union whose banking system is on the verge of collapse.
  • Burgon on the Box in Boston

    Time to stop work and head to the telly.... he's the political Partridge

    How the individuals actually perform on QT IMHO does not matter much. Key is that the main message on immigration will be that the Labour party wants more immigration. A bad place to be in the eyes of most voters.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    How the individuals actually perform on QT IMHO does not matter much. Key is that the main message on immigration will be that the Labour party wants more immigration. A bad place to be in the eyes of most voters.

    Two adjacent tweets on my timeline

    @brucerisk: ......here we go again #@bbcquestiontime and Tory and UKIP MPs demonising immigrants! @RichardBurgon a voice of reason and compassion!

    @iainmartin1: UKIP is obviously going to rebrand as the low immigration party after Brexit deal. And hammer Labour and Corbyn north of Watford.
  • Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: Liberal Democrat GAIN Stow (Cotswold) from Conservative.

    Hooray hooray hooray. The yellows are on the way!

    Could that be an omen for Witney?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NCPoliticsUK: First two by-election results tonight are both Lib Dem gains from Con, a 14.5% swing in Herts and a 21% swing in the Cotswolds twitter.com/britainelects/…
  • taffys said:

    ''At the heart of the Remain argument seems to be view that the UK governments will do crazy economic things, or carry out barbaric social policies, outside of the EU.''

    At the heart of the remainer argument is a contempt for the capabilities and potential of the country they live in, in favour of a rotting customs union whose banking system is on the verge of collapse.

    "At the heart of the remainer argument is a contempt for the capabilities and potential of the country they live in"
    Agreed.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Shami is impressive.

    Left-liberal, telegenic, charming. Good communicator who might actually get elected by Labour's nutty membership yet could reunite the party. Shami for leader. Why not?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Labour HOLD Tyldesley (Blackpool).
  • Watching Sleepy Hollow on Film4 :)
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2016

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    Nissan can't lose on this. They'll either pocket a nice Corporate Welfare cheque from the UK government to secure the new investment or they can self vindicate their warnings by putting the new investment else where. Doubtless also for a nice Corporate Welfare cheque. Given we've engaged in a highly political Willy waving competition with an economic bloc 9 times our size everyone with highly mobile investment will be playing us off against one another.

    With a £100bn trade leverage to play with and 27 different nations with hugely varying profits from their arrangements with us, I suspect we'll be doing a bit of 'playing off' ourselves.
    How will that work? "We'll give you a good deal to base your single market operations in the UK! Forget Hungary, Poland or Germany and come to the UK where the business climate is so much better. What's that? Can we guarantee that we'll even be in the single market? Well, no not exactly, but Europe will have to back down so don't you worry about that!"
    Just some initial thoughts.

    We could look at the 24 EU nations running a surplus with us; maybe the 2600 (net) EU businesses that require a passport to operate here, maybe the application of selective tariffs to divide them if they tariff the UK?
    Selective tariffs? That would be like trying to apply selective tariffs to different US states.

    We'd become the first developed country of the modern era to descend into rogue state status within the international system.
    Not at all.

    We apply the tariff to the whole EU - knowing full well it will hit certain parts of it. Then they start arguing with each other.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Cotswold Stow

    LD 555
    Con 300
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Hooray hooray hooray. The yellows are on the way!

    Could that be an omen for Witney?

    I trust that is your book talking
This discussion has been closed.