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  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Ken Clarke goes on the attack over Brexit.

    Wow! Never saw that coming......
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
  • SeanT said:

    <
    What is indisputable is that our democracy will benefit from Brexit: laws will be made by us for us. No government will be able to blame Brussels for its failures, no government will be able to smuggle laws into the statute book, via Strasbourg - laws they would not dare push directly through the Commons. The ECJ and the Commission and the two parliaments and all the rest of this wretched and fraudulent project: gone

    This
  • TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    edited September 2016
    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

    It doesn't make any difference. Those import tariffs would apply to all cars, which will become more expensive to consumers and our government will probably need the extra money anyway.

    I do expect a tariff-free deal on machinery and chemicals however. It's in everyone's interest and relatively uncontroversial.
    If you think BMW and Mercedes will be happy with a tariff for cars moving between the EU and Uk you are smoking the good stuff.
    This is where the WTO MFN rules make single market continuation via the EEA (for a time) a perfectly sensible idea.

    Under MFN, a trade block may charge an import tariff on all its imports. But at the same time, we cannot reciprocate that high tariff unless we charge the same tariff to all our import states. This is the one area where they hold the whip hand - and all trade blocks do.

    Countering this would be best done by re-joining the EFTA, thereby utilising the EEA. We will have a good task ahead of us in translating the 'customs rules' and getting certification as a compliant nation (AEO) - at least EEA transition will sort out the issues of regulatory convergence for the market in the short term (MRAs/ competition etc).

    EFTA nations such as Switzerland and Norway are not entirely happy with their EU deals - but with Britain inside the block as well, it would give weight to a new truly Free Trade deal between EFTA and the EU which recognises that Norway and Switzerland will never join the EU (which was the object of the EEA)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,423
    edited September 2016
    SeanT said:

    ...

    The irony is that in the end, ten years after Brexit, it will likely be unquantifiable: whether we were better off in or out of the EU.

    What is indisputable is that our democracy will benefit from Brexit: laws will be made by us for us. No government will be able to blame Brussels for its failures, no government will be able to smuggle laws into the statute book, via Strasbourg - laws they would not dare push directly through the Commons. The ECJ and the Commission and the two parliaments and all the rest of this wretched and fraudulent project: gone

    I fully expect our current government to blame the EU for its failures. The rest maybe.

    The ECJ and the Commission and the two parliaments and all the rest of this wretched and fraudulent project: gone.

    Not quite. They will still be there and we will still be dealing with them.

  • Jobabob said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
    Personally speaking I have my doubts on the exact published numbers for engineering reasons but no doubt that it was well into seven figures and would have been over 10 million if they had not been stopped in their tracks.

    The problem is that those making light of it or seeking to claim it didn't happen are implicitly trying to rehabilitate national socialism and capricious liquidation of opponents.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
    Only if at least 50% of that is not tied up in a first property. I bet there are plenty of farmers who would count as wealthy by that metric but who find it hard to rub together the necessary to maintain their equipment and property.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291

    Jobabob said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
    Personally speaking I have my doubts on the exact published numbers for engineering reasons but no doubt that it was well into seven figures and would have been over 10 million if they had not been stopped in their tracks.

    The problem is that those making light of it or seeking to claim it didn't happen are implicitly trying to rehabilitate national socialism and capricious liquidation of opponents.
    What is wrong with you? How can it really matter to be quibbling over the numbers in the face of probably the worst event in the entirety of human history?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    There are financial newswire reports that a few hedge funds that use Deutsche Bank to clear derivatives deals have moved the collateral they use to back their trades elsewhere.

    Its only excess collateral. Its only a few funds. But.....

    Lets face it. Would you keep your ackers at Deutsche? And get charged for the privilege, given where rates are?
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Jobabob said:

    Speedy said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
    Well according to my average daily tracking poll, the debate does seem to have boosted Hillary's lead by about 1% from 3 before the debate to 4 after.

    But how will Trump overcome a Hillary lead of 4% in 30 days ?

    Especially since he is so bad at debates, and events like Riots and Terrorism boost Hillary intstead of Trump.
    When does early voting start in most swing states? That is key – we have seen in both WH2012 and the Brexit referendum that having a decent lead during early voting time can be decisive.
    now in some states. iowa it opened today, which is why clinton was there at an early voting centre to encourage it.

    trumps doing another rally somewhere
  • IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
    Personally speaking I have my doubts on the exact published numbers for engineering reasons but no doubt that it was well into seven figures and would have been over 10 million if they had not been stopped in their tracks.

    The problem is that those making light of it or seeking to claim it didn't happen are implicitly trying to rehabilitate national socialism and capricious liquidation of opponents.
    What is wrong with you? How can it really matter to be quibbling over the numbers in the face of probably the worst event in the entirety of human history?
    It dosent - that is the whole point.

    I think you misread my post.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,654
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
    Only if at least 50% of that is not tied up in a first property. I bet there are plenty of farmers who would count as wealthy by that metric but who find it hard to rub together the necessary to maintain their equipment and property.
    That's why I used net assets. If a farmer has no mortgage and their land/property is worth £2 million then they are wealthy given they could sell up and live off the cash quite comfortably.
    Of course there may well be a psychological attachment to their farm, but that doesn't stop them being wealthy.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,807
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
    Only if at least 50% of that is not tied up in a first property. I bet there are plenty of farmers who would count as wealthy by that metric but who find it hard to rub together the necessary to maintain their equipment and property.
    That's why I used net assets. If a farmer has no mortgage and their land/property is worth £2 million then they are wealthy given they could sell up and live off the cash quite comfortably.
    Of course there may well be a psychological attachment to their farm, but that doesn't stop them being wealthy.
    So wealthiness increases with age, holding net assets constant?
  • Louis Theroux is back with a new Jimmy Savile show this Sunday. Sounds like interesting viewing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/sep/29/when-louis-theroux-met-jimmy-savile-again-gullible-bbc
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TonyE said:


    Under MFN, a trade block may charge an import tariff on all its imports. But at the same time, we cannot reciprocate that high tariff unless we charge the same tariff to all our import states.

    We already charge 10% tariff on cars imported from outside the EU - that is what we'd be charging vehicle imports from the EU and vice versa - so I don't exactly see your point.

    We would be falling back on MFN under WTO, which is what the EU would do - we would be on the same footing.

  • geoffw said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
    Only if at least 50% of that is not tied up in a first property. I bet there are plenty of farmers who would count as wealthy by that metric but who find it hard to rub together the necessary to maintain their equipment and property.
    That's why I used net assets. If a farmer has no mortgage and their land/property is worth £2 million then they are wealthy given they could sell up and live off the cash quite comfortably.
    Of course there may well be a psychological attachment to their farm, but that doesn't stop them being wealthy.
    So wealthiness increases with age, holding net assets constant?
    I would say over £500k in net assets with a further £500k allowable if in a pension fund or of pensionable age.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
    Personally speaking I have my doubts on the exact published numbers for engineering reasons but no doubt that it was well into seven figures and would have been over 10 million if they had not been stopped in their tracks.

    The problem is that those making light of it or seeking to claim it didn't happen are implicitly trying to rehabilitate national socialism and capricious liquidation of opponents.
    What is wrong with you? How can it really matter to be quibbling over the numbers in the face of probably the worst event in the entirety of human history?
    Imperial Japanese Army killed substantially more, so did the Mongols, the Cultural Revolution, Stalin's Purges, and arguably the Conquistadors.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    By election today Dacorum BC Adeyfield West a 4 way marginal . Report on the campaign on Vote2012 site from a Green campaigner in the town

    Lib Dems 2 full leaflets 1 full eve of poll leaflet 1 partial Rise and Shine leaflet full telling op Several activists out
    Lab 1 full leaflet plus 1 calling card full telling several activists out
    Con No leaflets claim lots of canvassing full telling some activists out
    UKIP 1 leaflet No telling No activists on the ground
    Greens 1 full leaflet partial telling only

    Labour complaints Lib Dems are deceitful for claiming there candidate is the only one who lives in the ward . It is of course true but the Labour candidate lives in neighbouring Adeyfield East ward .
    Result in 2015 Con 763/706 LD 715/463 Lab 696/450 UKIP 672
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158



    Labour complaints Lib Dems are deceitful for claiming there candidate is the only one who lives in the ward . It is of course true but the Labour candidate lives in neighbouring Adeyfield East ward .

    Seems a bit silly to complain about an easily checkable fact?
  • MTimT said:

    TonyE said:


    Under MFN, a trade block may charge an import tariff on all its imports. But at the same time, we cannot reciprocate that high tariff unless we charge the same tariff to all our import states.

    We already charge 10% tariff on cars imported from outside the EU - that is what we'd be charging vehicle imports from the EU and vice versa - so I don't exactly see your point.

    We would be falling back on MFN under WTO, which is what the EU would do - we would be on the same footing.

    Out of interest 10% of what price:

    The wholesale price the dealer/buys it for?
    Retail price sans vat?
    Retail price including vat?

    If one of the former the customer will pay well under 10% extra.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited September 2016
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    Yes, I think the idea of internationalism has infected a lot of leftist thinking. I still don't understand their obsession with joining the EU. Just now we have someone who claims to be a Lib Dem espouse something I wouldn't be surprised to hear in my local conservative association, or read in a speech made by Mrs Thatcher at the height of her power. Yet here were are when leftists are calling wages an economic cost and hoping for the impoverishment of the poorest in our country, either by stagnant wages within the EU or by stagnant overall growth.

    It's only the post-communist expansion of the EU to include the eastern block that confuses you into conflating globalisation with European integration. The two things are unrelated historical processes.
    But that is globalisation you fool, on a turbocharged level. In 2004 companies suddenly had unfettered access to a basically unlimited source of cheap labour. Whether by design or accident the enlargement of the EU had had severely deleterious effects on the working classes in the UK. Since we are unable to turn the clock back and deny the entry of the A10, Romania and Bulgaria or put limits on free movement within the EU, reversing globalisation and shutting down that unlimited cheap labour source requires leaving the EU.
    You're being deliberately obtuse. It was a choice of the UK government to allow free migration of labour from day one, but they had also introduced a minimum wage, so there is a floor on how cheap labour employed in the UK can get.

    If a UK company primarily wants cheaper workers, they employ them in another jurisdiction so migration is neither here nor there.

    Brexiters are simultaneously avocating a more free-market free-booting global economic strategy for the UK, and also that the grotesque inequalities that are spreading across the world will somehow be resolved here in the UK. Quite how this is supposed to work, I do not see.
    I imagine any EU citizen without a job, or means of support, or who is one of the estimated 30-35% homeless people in the UK from elsewhere in the EU, will be in danger of deportation, post Brexit

    One in five rough sleepers in London comes from just one EU country: Romania

    Anyone already here prior to Brexit will get to stay. And anyone who's been here for 5 years (3 if married to a UK citizen) will be eligible for citizenship if they haven't committed any nasty crimes.

    This is the oddest thing about the Brexit campaign - the belief that all the Eastern Europeans would somehow disappear overnight. In 10 years time we'll still be employing cheap Polish builders.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    new thread folks!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
    Only if at least 50% of that is not tied up in a first property. I bet there are plenty of farmers who would count as wealthy by that metric but who find it hard to rub together the necessary to maintain their equipment and property.
    That's why I used net assets. If a farmer has no mortgage and their land/property is worth £2 million then they are wealthy given they could sell up and live off the cash quite comfortably.
    Of course there may well be a psychological attachment to their farm, but that doesn't stop them being wealthy.
    The farmer only becomes wealthy when they realize the value of the land through a sale. Doing so comes at a cost to society. I think we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this one.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited September 2016
    .
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    TonyE said:


    Under MFN, a trade block may charge an import tariff on all its imports. But at the same time, we cannot reciprocate that high tariff unless we charge the same tariff to all our import states.

    We already charge 10% tariff on cars imported from outside the EU - that is what we'd be charging vehicle imports from the EU and vice versa - so I don't exactly see your point.

    We would be falling back on MFN under WTO, which is what the EU would do - we would be on the same footing.

    Out of interest 10% of what price:

    The wholesale price the dealer/buys it for?
    Retail price sans vat?
    Retail price including vat?

    If one of the former the customer will pay well under 10% extra.
    I am not an expert on this, but I would imagine it is CIF.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,782

    619 said:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-could-elect-trump-but-first-they-need-to-register/

    The 'Brexit effect' could sweep Trump to victory, but he isn't registering enough WWC to do so, so far. His crappy ground game is messing him up

    We are heading back to does he want actually win at this rate. No ground game, wont do debate prep etc etc.
    It's hard to get inside his head.

    He likes to win. He thinks he's really good at it so he won't take advice.

    But if it's clear that he is going to lose, will he take advice - a sign of weakness?

    He thinks he knows when to hold and when to fold. Perhaps he'll fold rather than face a formal loss. "I'm not going to play in a fixed game."
  • SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    Yep - I think that will be the main Brexit story: the loss of investments that would have been made and of jobs that would have been created had we stayed in the single market.

    And conversely, the new business and investment we will get as we slowly rid ourselves of the most onerous and ridiculous EU laws.

    An example: droit de suite on auction houses

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/20/the-uk-art-market-can-soar-after-brexit/

    The irony is that in the end, ten years after Brexit, it will likely be unquantifiable: whether we were better off in or out of the EU.

    What is indisputable is that our democracy will benefit from Brexit: laws will be made by us for us. No government will be able to blame Brussels for its failures, no government will be able to smuggle laws into the statute book, via Strasbourg - laws they would not dare push directly through the Commons. The ECJ and the Commission and the two parliaments and all the rest of this wretched and fraudulent project: gone


    I am a hobby beekeeper. Most laws regarding fertilisers, chemicals, insecticides are decided by Brussels. The UK Government no longer has the technical expertise , personnel or facilities to do the R&D work needed to assess these and pass laws. Given that and the length of time to develop it, I fully expect thee UK in this - and many other fields - to just pass EC legislation as UK legislation. See car legislation safety and emissions.

    We cannot afford to reinvent the wheel.

    If you expect otherwise, prepare to be disappointed. It's pure practical politics..

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    Yep - I think that will be the main Brexit story: the loss of investments that would have been made and of jobs that would have been created had we stayed in the single market.

    However, this can be mitigated to a great extent by fostering a more attractive business environment. The Government has the political space to make tax cuts, funded by a combination of more borrowing and reductions in spending. It will also have the space going forward to repeal chunks of restrictive EU regulation in areas such as GM research, and to make new trading arrangements with many large markets elsewhere in the world where the EU's efforts are faltering, or have yet to begin.

    The EU is largely dysfunctional both economically and politically, and the Euro is a seemingly unending disaster to which nobody appears to be able to find a workable solution. If Brexit forces the UK to become less reliant on trade with this chronic low growth zone then, in the long run, this is likely to prove to be greatly to our advantage.
  • Indigo said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    You equate denying the genocide of millions of human beings with a belief that England will win the next world cup?
    Personally speaking I have my doubts on the exact published numbers for engineering reasons but no doubt that it was well into seven figures and would have been over 10 million if they had not been stopped in their tracks.

    The problem is that those making light of it or seeking to claim it didn't happen are implicitly trying to rehabilitate national socialism and capricious liquidation of opponents.
    What is wrong with you? How can it really matter to be quibbling over the numbers in the face of probably the worst event in the entirety of human history?
    Imperial Japanese Army killed substantially more, so did the Mongols, the Cultural Revolution, Stalin's Purges, and arguably the Conquistadors.
    To some extent you could avoid the ones you mention by keeping your head down.

    What the Godwins lot did was so ghastly and even if not the worst ever in numbers was the worst ever in evilness because:

    (1) there was absolutely no escape, your birth marked you out.

    (2) The cold, calculating and criminal way they went about setting up and running a network of abbatoirs for humans.

    (3) The unspeakable cruelty to inmates who were not slaughtered within hours of arriving.

    Historical inquiry into e.g. the logistics is legitimate, to get the historical record straight and not leave any errors for deniers and reductionists to exploit, but it would not be a very pleasant task.

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,782

    By election today Dacorum BC Adeyfield West a 4 way marginal . Report on the campaign on Vote2012 site from a Green campaigner in the town

    Lib Dems 2 full leaflets 1 full eve of poll leaflet 1 partial Rise and Shine leaflet full telling op Several activists out
    Lab 1 full leaflet plus 1 calling card full telling several activists out
    Con No leaflets claim lots of canvassing full telling some activists out
    UKIP 1 leaflet No telling No activists on the ground
    Greens 1 full leaflet partial telling only

    Labour complaints Lib Dems are deceitful for claiming there candidate is the only one who lives in the ward . It is of course true but the Labour candidate lives in neighbouring Adeyfield East ward .
    Result in 2015 Con 763/706 LD 715/463 Lab 696/450 UKIP 672

    I think the LibDems are going to gain Adeyfield West, and Wold, and hold Glaven Valley.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Barnesian said:

    By election today Dacorum BC Adeyfield West a 4 way marginal . Report on the campaign on Vote2012 site from a Green campaigner in the town

    Lib Dems 2 full leaflets 1 full eve of poll leaflet 1 partial Rise and Shine leaflet full telling op Several activists out
    Lab 1 full leaflet plus 1 calling card full telling several activists out
    Con No leaflets claim lots of canvassing full telling some activists out
    UKIP 1 leaflet No telling No activists on the ground
    Greens 1 full leaflet partial telling only

    Labour complaints Lib Dems are deceitful for claiming there candidate is the only one who lives in the ward . It is of course true but the Labour candidate lives in neighbouring Adeyfield East ward .
    Result in 2015 Con 763/706 LD 715/463 Lab 696/450 UKIP 672

    I think the LibDems are going to gain Adeyfield West, and Wold, and hold Glaven Valley.
    Adeyfield West is an interesting ward . It was safely Labour until Conservatives gained it in a by election in March 2010 . In 2011 it was split 1 Con 1 Lab and Lib Dems gained the Labour seat in a further by election in 2013 .
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    Yep - I think that will be the main Brexit story: the loss of investments that would have been made and of jobs that would have been created had we stayed in the single market.

    However, this can be mitigated to a great extent by fostering a more attractive business environment. The Government has the political space to make tax cuts, funded by a combination of more borrowing and reductions in spending. It will also have the space going forward to repeal chunks of restrictive EU regulation in areas such as GM research, and to make new trading arrangements with many large markets elsewhere in the world where the EU's efforts are faltering, or have yet to begin.

    The EU is largely dysfunctional both economically and politically, and the Euro is a seemingly unending disaster to which nobody appears to be able to find a workable solution. If Brexit forces the UK to become less reliant on trade with this chronic low growth zone then, in the long run, this is likely to prove to be greatly to our advantage.
    You seem to be living in a fantasy world where there are large global markets who will want to put a favourable trade deal with an inward looking anti immigrant island of 60 million people before that of a trade deal with almost a continent of 400 plus million people .
  • NEW THREAD

  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Pulpstar said:

    That's the difference between, private enterprise and a Government bureaucracy! especially an entrepreneur as successful as Elon Musk, and government agency, as bad as the Department for Transport!

    Imagine what the Railways would be like if the government has never interfered with them!

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png#/media/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png
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