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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/29/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-inquiry-foreign-property-ownership?CMP=twt_gu

    This is about the best article I've read in the Guardian for years. Required reading for many reasons
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Official HMRC Oct: 1.1635 €/£ / 1.2967 $

    Everyone enjoy limbo dancing ?

    So we are all about 17% poorer in terms of international buying power than on June 22nd.

    The £ was roughly around 1.16 against the € for most of 2008-2014

    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y
    Mind you, the previous dip was due to the unexpected credit crunch. This is (relative) poverty that we voted for.
    The £ is doing its job as a shock absorber. Besides it was significantly overvalued prior to Brexit, as our Trade Deficit confirms.
    I would agree with that actually. Also the costs of Brexit will be somewhat absorbed by hopefully modest inflation. People will pay for it through lower real wages and reduced welfare (Apart from Brexit-loving OAPs who are protected by their triple lock pensions)
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    Off-topic:

    One of the latest buzzes in tech is the IoT - Internet of TatThings. This means that everyday devices are connected to the Internet. A fridge may detect that you are low on milk and order more; a freezer might switch off for an hour at a time of high demand for electricity.

    Well it appears that - as some of us predicted - the IoT is a privacy and security nightmare.

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2016/09/botnet-of-145k-cameras-reportedly-deliver-internets-biggest-ddos-ever/
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    Pulpstar said:
    Jeremy Corbyn should have promised putting Birmingham on Mars for $420 billion.
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    Mr. Jessop, entirely agree. These fools weren't paying attention to Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Alistair said:

    I think the town hall format suits him better. By their nature try are more bitty and don't require him to stick on topic for 'long' periods of time. I am planning to Kay off a portion of my Clinton position pre debate as I smell a comeback narrative for debate 2. Given that Trump has now set the bar so low a slug could clear it he can hardly disappoint a second time.

    Hhhmmm ....

    I think the only format that suits Donald is where he does all the talking without interruption or critical comment lest of all from questions from the great unwashed at a Town Hall setting.

    What could possibly go wrong ?!? .. :smiley:
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    619 said:

    New York train crash looks bad.

    Thankfully no fatalities.
    3 fatalities reported
    Yes, just seen the update, hopefully the number won't increase.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    edited September 2016

    Pulpstar said:
    Jeremy Corbyn should have promised putting Birmingham on Mars for $420 billion.
    Which will happen first ?

    High speed rail (To Birmingham !) or a human Mars landing ?
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    Pulpstar said:
    I can get to Birmingham for £29 (from London Marylebone - 1hr 40 mins).
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    Pulpstar said:
    LOL. That's a hilarious tweet.

    But leaving that aside: SpaceX are not 'promising' that; that is their current estimate.

    As a counter example, NASA's much less ambitious SLS program is $18 billion, with perhaps each launch costing $500 million. So expensive that NASA can probably only afford a couple of launches per year.

    If SpaceX make their rocket, it would be amazing. If they get anywhere near approaching the launch cadence they quote it would be a miracle.

    Needless to say, I hope they manage it.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Jeremy Corbyn should have promised putting Birmingham on Mars for $420 billion.
    Which will happen first ?

    High speed rail (To Birmingham !) or a human Mars landing ?
    Isn't 125 mph high speed enough? 82 minutes from London Euston.
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    Pulpstar said:
    I can get to Birmingham for £29 (from London Marylebone - 1hr 40 mins).
    Your point being?

    As an aside, I've walked Birmingham to London, and later London to Birmingham, both times following the Grand Union Canal. :)
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    SeanT said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexiters are simultaneously avocating a more free-market free-booting global economic strategy for the UK, and also that the grotesque inequalities that are spreading across the world will somehow be resolved here in the UK. Quite how this is supposed to work, I do not see.

    I imagine any EU citizen without a job, or means of support, or who is one of the estimated 30-35% homeless people in the UK from elsewhere in the EU, will be in danger of deportation, post Brexit

    One in five rough sleepers in London comes from just one EU country: Romania

    IanB2 is just being silly.

    The tension between efficiency and fairness (equity) is at the heart of all economic policy conundrums, not just Brexit. Through Brexit, we at least get to make those decisions for ourselves. Whether the economy is more efficient, larger or smaller post-Brexit (longer-term, rather than immediate aftermath) will depend on how good those choices are.

    It is certainly not contradictory to say that you want to both have a more free-market economic strategy and simultaneously address through policy means any inequities that would entail. Lots of other questions arise as a consequence, but the stance itself is not a contradiction.
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    Pulpstar said:
    I can get to Birmingham for £29 (from London Marylebone - 1hr 40 mins).
    Your point being?

    Much less the £42 billion the Tweeter tweeted :)
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Jeremy Corbyn should have promised putting Birmingham on Mars for $420 billion.
    Which will happen first ?

    High speed rail (To Birmingham !) or a human Mars landing ?
    Isn't 125 mph high speed enough? 82 minutes from London Euston.
    It's about capacity.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    edited September 2016

    Pulpstar said:
    LOL. That's a hilarious tweet.

    But leaving that aside: SpaceX are not 'promising' that; that is their current estimate.

    As a counter example, NASA's much less ambitious SLS program is $18 billion, with perhaps each launch costing $500 million. So expensive that NASA can probably only afford a couple of launches per year.

    If SpaceX make their rocket, it would be amazing. If they get anywhere near approaching the launch cadence they quote it would be a miracle.

    Needless to say, I hope they manage it.
    There is no way it is going to go according to the budget and timeline that Musk has set out.

    But (before I die hopefully) I think there WILL be humans on Mars. And it is probably Spacex that will get them there.

    The key is that this is a private venture, and there are assets behind it. Public (NASA) has gone nowhere since the late 60s, and other private ventures don't have any assets or experience behind them.

    Hopefully Spacex rtf will be in November, if that was NASA's accident then the rtf would be delayed for years.

    Incidentally have you seen this: http://www.spacehabs.com/ ?

    Now the guy behind it (Bryan Versteeg) has some idea of the payload capacity behind the 'Heart of Gold', he can design some initial outpost that could actually be transported there (Rather than the Mars One guff)

    How cool is that !
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    As an aside, I've walked Birmingham to London, and later London to Birmingham, both times following the Grand Union Canal. :)

    I 've walked from London to Shoeburyness following the original (1922) route of the A13 - and back!

    But not all at once :)
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    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Jeremy Corbyn should have promised putting Birmingham on Mars for $420 billion.
    Which will happen first ?

    High speed rail (To Birmingham !) or a human Mars landing ?
    Isn't 125 mph high speed enough? 82 minutes from London Euston.
    It's about capacity.
    Which are more frequent?

    Virgin's trains from Euston to New Street, or London Underground's trains from Woodford to Hainault?
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    As an aside, I've walked Birmingham to London, and later London to Birmingham, both times following the Grand Union Canal. :)

    I 've walked from London to Shoeburyness following the original (1922) route of the A13 - and back!

    But not all at once :)
    Yes. Because you're sensible. :)
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Interesting Rentoul article on the current Labour power centres and the unlikelihood of a ceasefire.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-jeremy-corbyn-guide-to-the-civil-war-a7337321.html
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Landon Thomas
    Deutsche Bank factoid: Since 2009: DB shareholders put up 13.5 billion euros in equity. DB has paid 19.3 billion euro in bonuses. Wow!
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    And yet the good Lord has seen fit to take Ronnie Corbett, David Bowie and Prince.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    PlatoSaid said:

    Landon Thomas
    Deutsche Bank factoid: Since 2009: DB shareholders put up 13.5 billion euros in equity. DB has paid 19.3 billion euro in bonuses. Wow!

    Surely the first part of the bailout of Deutsche involves back payment of those bonuses ?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    edited September 2016
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
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    Pulpstar said:

    There is no way it is going to go according to the budget and timeline that Musk has set out.

    But (before I die hopefully) I think there WILL be humans on Mars. And it is probably Spacex that will get them there.

    The key is that this is a private venture, and there are assets behind it. Public (NASA) has gone nowhere since the late 60s, and other private ventures don't have any assets or experience behind them.

    Hopefully Spacex rtf will be in November, if that was NASA's accident then the rtf would be delayed for years.

    Incidentally have you seen this: http://www.spacehabs.com/ ?

    Now the guy behind it (Bryan Versteeg) has some idea of the payload capacity behind the 'Heart of Gold', he can design some initial outpost that could actually be transported there (Rather than the Mars One guff)

    How cool is that !

    No, I hadn't seen that, thanks. I believe SpaceX are not bothering with designing much hab kit themselves - it looks as though they want third parties to develop them. If so, his ideas might actually happen.

    I'm not sure being a private company makes much difference - after all, ULA is owned by two companies - Lockheed and Boeing.

    I've been reading NASA's official histories on the Space Shuttle, and they show well how they developed what was a glorious failure. Basically: there was no mission for the shuttle. NASA wanted to keep going into space with manned vehicles, but their budget had been decreasing since 1966. So they teamed up with the Air Force, and then had to pare the system to the core as the budgetary offices got involved. It was designed to a cost instead of a mission.

    And why? There was no firm mission for what it would be used for. Initially it was meant to be part of a space system, with space station, moon base, space tugs etc. But as the budget was unavailable for each of these, they were left with just the shuttle, and a reduced one at that.

    The same can be seen with the current SLS. There is no real mission for it, only vague ideas.

    SpaceX has the benefit of having one overarching ambition and mission. They know where they're headed. The same with NASA thoughout the sixties: they had a clear mission:

    To get a man on the moon: check
    To return him safely: check.
    Before the end of the decade: check.

    That's what NASA needs.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    If the EU Treaties are still in force in the UK in June 2019 we're entitled to representation in the new European Parliament. The UK government could cancel the elections but would be open to legal challenge. Thus delay A50 notification past June 2017 involves us electing MEP's for a few months. It doesn't bother me. It would be funny but it'll p*ss off lots of other people.

    The conundrum is going to be if the left win the elections, but by a margin smaller than the representation from British Labour. Does their candidate then get Juncker's job?
    The most logical thing to do is to extend the term of the existing representatives by a year (or whatever).
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    I guess a less articulate Ken Clarke would have just said: "How dare the plebs get a choice".

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCBreaking: UK government and French energy giant EDF sign contract for new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station bbc.in/2dcFkTw
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    After Mars, would the moons of Jupiter/Saturn be next, or would asteroid belt-mining be the next shindig?

    So far space-stuff is quite friendly, but once money comes into it, will that continue?
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    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    619 said:

    Ha.

    Do Trump fans still have their LA Times safety blanket?

    Jobabob said:

    That's a decent score with Ras – which has a strong GOP house effect/lean

    The Rasmussen 538 adjusted number is Clinton +3. In the ballpark for Clinton national leads presently.

    How exactly do 538 adjust published poll numbers?
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-users-guide-to-fivethirtyeights-2016-general-election-forecast/
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He called the 2015 GE better than 99% of others.
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    After Mars, would the moons of Jupiter/Saturn be next, or would asteroid belt-mining be the next shindig?

    So far space-stuff is quite friendly, but once money comes into it, will that continue?

    Some companies are already looking at asteroid mining, and scientists would love to send more probes (especially large ones) to the outer planets. SpaceX also claim their ship could visit places like Enceladus.

    There's actually an issue with this, though. An acquaintance of mine is a planetary scientist, and she says they are running out of scientists to decipher the information we get from probes, landers and telescopes.

    Our informational bandwidth is increasing, whist our human bandwidth to decipher the information is remaining more or less the same.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    TGOHF said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He called the 2015 GE better than 99% of others.
    Still waiting for the absolute 100% definitely going to come any second now pivot to the centre.
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    Live on CNBC - Wells Fargo CEO just admitted to stealing from over one million account holders since 2011. Amazing
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    Mr. Jessop, then we'll get into the territory of asking who owns the asteroid belt. Hmm.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048

    After Mars, would the moons of Jupiter/Saturn be next, or would asteroid belt-mining be the next shindig?

    So far space-stuff is quite friendly, but once money comes into it, will that continue?

    Some companies are already looking at asteroid mining, and scientists would love to send more probes (especially large ones) to the outer planets. SpaceX also claim their ship could visit places like Enceladus.

    There's actually an issue with this, though. An acquaintance of mine is a planetary scientist, and she says they are running out of scientists to decipher the information we get from probes, landers and telescopes.

    Our informational bandwidth is increasing, whist our human bandwidth to decipher the information is remaining more or less the same.
    Some of the inner jovian moons can be ruled out immediately, Io definitely - the radiation Jupiter emits is absolubtely ferocious - radiation, and severe heat are two things that are impossible to deal with. Severe cold with a thin atmosphere is a doddle by comparison.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2016
    Nissan make shit cars anyway, they should just go. We don't want their like here.

    Anyway he's bluffing. Who does he think he is. Japan isn't even in the EU for goodness sake.

    Good for proper BRITISH car manufacturers, like, er, er, erm. Oh. Fuck.
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    Mr. Jessop, then we'll get into the territory of asking who owns the asteroid belt. Hmm.

    The Man Who Sold the Moon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    After Mars, would the moons of Jupiter/Saturn be next, or would asteroid belt-mining be the next shindig?

    So far space-stuff is quite friendly, but once money comes into it, will that continue?

    Both in parallel I would have thought.

    On friendliness, https://deepspaceindustries.com/is-asteroid-mining-legal/
    The Outer Space Treaty says nations cannot claim territory in space and you can't do military stuff, but Congress passed an Act last year providing for private commercial exploitation.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    Kind of inevitable. There are WTO rules on subsidies. Be interesting if the EU took an action out against us before we have even settled our WTO status
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCBreaking: UK government and French energy giant EDF sign contract for new £18bn Hinkley Point C nuclear power station bbc.in/2dcFkTw

    I thought the ditherer wouldn't get anything done :p
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    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite.

    Mr. Pulpstar, the second Sleeping Gods book (Erebus, I think) by Ralph Kern deals with an exploding Jovian moon.

    In important news, I might have come up with (an admittedly unoriginal) gift for someone who has proved a bugger to buy for. Why aren't more people into sensible things, like classical history and F1?

    Speaking of which, the qualifying and race will be in the morning.
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    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
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    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030
    Pulpstar said:
    If a return ticket on HS2 were £42 billion it may be comparable.
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    Mr. X, got to say I think the 'no military' stuff won't last long. Every side must be developing their own weapons, whether that's missiles or masers. The only chance of avoiding a space war is MAD.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    They weren't the only ones to vote Leave? In any case, Labour supporters don't stop paying taxes whenever a Tory wins, and vice versa. :p
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).
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    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite.

    Mr. Pulpstar, the second Sleeping Gods book (Erebus, I think) by Ralph Kern deals with an exploding Jovian moon.

    In important news, I might have come up with (an admittedly unoriginal) gift for someone who has proved a bugger to buy for. Why aren't more people into sensible things, like classical history and F1?

    Speaking of which, the qualifying and race will be in the morning.

    Jovian Radiation Moon rem/day
    Io 3600
    Europa 540
    Ganymede 8
    Callisto 0.01

    Io/Europa = Instadeath.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).
    It would be a move of marketing genius to dump production in your biggest market in the area with all the job losses and lovely tabloid headlines around your brand. We're off to Poland - where they don't buy our cars...

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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Mr. X, got to say I think the 'no military' stuff won't last long. Every side must be developing their own weapons, whether that's missiles or masers. The only chance of avoiding a space war is MAD.

    The Outer Space Act 1986 has the coolest provision of any statute.

    Minor definitions

    ...

    “outer space” includes the moon and other celestial bodies

    If that is a minor definition what would a major definition look like?

    The "no military" stuff inhibits a lot of good peaceful ideas in that two quite good ways of propelling a spacecraft are to detonate atom bombs just behind it, or put a sail on it and have a humongous great laser in low earth orbit to shoot at the sail. Both open to misinterpretation and abuse.
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    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    Yep - I think that will be the main Brexit story: the loss of investments that would have been made and of jobs that would have been created had we stayed in the single market.

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Scott_P said:
    Interesting comparison of attitudes post referendum Honda say the will turn their Swindon plant into a world manufacturing centre, Nissan (with a French company under their belt) say they want subsidies.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    TGOHF said:

    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

    It doesn't make any difference. Those import tariffs would apply to all cars, which will become more expensive to consumers and our government will probably need the extra money anyway.

    I do expect a tariff-free deal on machinery and chemicals however. It's in everyone's interest and relatively uncontroversial.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting comparison of attitudes post referendum Honda say the will turn their Swindon plant into a world manufacturing centre, Nissan (with a French company under their belt) say they want subsidies.
    To be fair Honda doesn't have the choices Renault/Nissan has. AFAIK Swindon is Honda's sole manufacturing plant in Europe. They won't want to be paying tariffs either and if Nissan gets welfare they will ask for it too.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite.

    Mr. Pulpstar, the second Sleeping Gods book (Erebus, I think) by Ralph Kern deals with an exploding Jovian moon.

    In important news, I might have come up with (an admittedly unoriginal) gift for someone who has proved a bugger to buy for. Why aren't more people into sensible things, like classical history and F1?

    Speaking of which, the qualifying and race will be in the morning.

    Jovian Radiation Moon rem/day
    Io 3600
    Europa 540
    Ganymede 8
    Callisto 0.01

    Io/Europa = Instadeath.
    Surely not! The alien's message was:

    ALL THESE WORLDS
    ARE YOURS EXCEPT
    EUROPA
    ATTEMPT NO
    LANDING THERE
    USE THEM TOGETHER
    USE THEM IN PEACE

    Obviously the radiation's not that bad, and scientists are hiding something ... :)
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    TGOHF said:

    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

    The UK is in a strong position vs Nissan on those figures.

    And with the cheap pound they have no excuse, it's cheaper now to build cars in the UK than even with WTO tarrifs.

    They are trying to see if they can bend the government into subsidies.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    edited September 2016
    Mr. Pulpstar, so, someone wouldn't even have a half-life expectancy there?

    [I do apologise].

    Mr. Observer, of course, losses real and imaginary will be banged on about as much as the real and fictional aspects of Project Fear.

    Edited extra bit: and if anyone does want to read of war in space, my excellent short story Dead Weight is in this anthology and contains a spot of space war:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Explorations-Through-Wormhole-Ralph-Kern-ebook/dp/B01LC0JZD4/
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).
    It would be a move of marketing genius to dump production in your biggest market in the area with all the job losses and lovely tabloid headlines around your brand. We're off to Poland - where they don't buy our cars...

    I'm sure they would wring their hands as they moved ...
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    Yep - I think that will be the main Brexit story: the loss of investments that would have been made and of jobs that would have been created had we stayed in the single market.

    OK, but please explain Ford investment decisions to us. They shut production facilities in the UK, within the EU, and moved them to Turkey, outside the EU.

    Perhaps your analysis might be just a tad clouded by your political views.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Pulpstar said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    SeanT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Official HMRC Oct: 1.1635 €/£ / 1.2967 $

    Everyone enjoy limbo dancing ?

    So we are all about 17% poorer in terms of international buying power than on June 22nd.

    The £ was roughly around 1.16 against the € for most of 2008-2014

    http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y
    Mind you, the previous dip was due to the unexpected credit crunch. This is (relative) poverty that we voted for.
    The £ is doing its job as a shock absorber. Besides it was significantly overvalued prior to Brexit, as our Trade Deficit confirms.
    Cars and pharma seem to be our two main exports - chinese tat the main import.
    Which tat were you thinking of? Given that (a) that tat (if that's what it is) is pretty important to the bread and circuses that people want; and (b) China's long since replaced Birmingham as the workshop of the world, it seems pretty sweeping.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
    Well according to my average daily tracking poll, the debate does seem to have boosted Hillary's lead by about 1% from 3 before the debate to 4 after.

    But how will Trump overcome a Hillary lead of 4% in 30 days ?

    Especially since he is so bad at debates, and events like Riots and Terrorism boost Hillary intstead of Trump.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

    It doesn't make any difference. Those import tariffs would apply to all cars, which will become more expensive to consumers and our government will probably need the extra money anyway.

    I do expect a tariff-free deal on machinery and chemicals however. It's in everyone's interest and relatively uncontroversial.
    If you think BMW and Mercedes will be happy with a tariff for cars moving between the EU and Uk you are smoking the good stuff.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    edited September 2016

    Mr. Pulpstar, so, someone wouldn't even have a half-life expectancy there?

    [I do apologise].

    Mr. Observer, of course, losses real and imaginary will be banged on about as much as the real and fictional aspects of Project Fear.

    I think 8 rems/day is OK for a flyby or some such, you probably wouldn't want to get any closer than Ganymede to Jupiter mind (The Juno probe is quite some feat of engineering to be able to survive the Jovian cloud tops !)

    Thinking about it further, I'd rather pay for a final trip to the outer solar system (Radiation and all) rather than drowning in my own piss in a nursing home...
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    edited September 2016
    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://newsroom.nissan-global.com/releases/nissan-in-europe-announces-record-sales-in-western-europe-2015-fiscal-year

    29% of Nissan sales in Europe are in the Uk.

    Next highest market is France with 13%.

    Perhaps Hollande will pay him for any hard Brexit tariffs for importing cars into the Uk ?

    It doesn't make any difference. Those import tariffs would apply to all cars, which will become more expensive to consumers and our government will probably need the extra money anyway.

    I do expect a tariff-free deal on machinery and chemicals however. It's in everyone's interest and relatively uncontroversial.
    If you think BMW and Mercedes will be happy with a tariff for cars moving between the EU and Uk you are smoking the good stuff.
    I don't think you read my post you quoted.

    Edit. There's a distinction between whether there is tariff free trade and where Nissan will place their production. No-one wants tariffs. Nissan and Renault are totally unsentimental about where they produce their cars. They will produce in Sunderland only as long as it is cheaper all in than a dozen other factories across France, Romania, Turkey and Morocco
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).
    It would be a move of marketing genius to dump production in your biggest market in the area with all the job losses and lovely tabloid headlines around your brand. We're off to Poland - where they don't buy our cars...

    Does "Buy British" have any real resonance with people buying cars. In the case of Nissan, I'd have thought that people are buying perceived Japanese quality/fit for purpose, rather than made in Wearside. I'd be interested if there's actual evidence to the contrary. [in the same way as with Apple, people are buying ease of use/California, not made in China]
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Speedy said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
    Well according to my average daily tracking poll, the debate does seem to have boosted Hillary's lead by about 1% from 3 before the debate to 4 after.

    But how will Trump overcome a Hillary lead of 4% in 30 days ?

    Especially since he is so bad at debates, and events like Riots and Terrorism boost Hillary intstead of Trump.
    Daily tracking polls were miles off in predicting the Uk election and the Brexit referendum.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    edited September 2016
    Re Rod and election predictions.

    Despite having some shall we say very odd ideas about certain things...for UK elections, I have previously challenged on him on his approach and he was able to provide academic literature upon what he based his model on. Obviously we can argue about the methodology, what adjustments he was making etc, but it certainly wasn't total pie in the sky stuff and proved correct for the past 2 GE.

    However, I seemed to remember him saying that a similar approach wasn't applicable for US elections and I don't remember him ever giving any details about what his Trump prediction was based upon.
  • Options
    matt said:

    TGOHF said:

    FF43 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Business man looking for a deal shock.

    Too right he is. What happens if he does not get it? Why would Nissan make cars for the singe market in the UK when they could make them elsewhere in the single market for less money?

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).
    It would be a move of marketing genius to dump production in your biggest market in the area with all the job losses and lovely tabloid headlines around your brand. We're off to Poland - where they don't buy our cars...

    Does "Buy British" have any real resonance with people buying cars. In the case of Nissan, I'd have thought that people are buying perceived Japanese quality/fit for purpose, rather than made in Wearside. I'd be interested if there's actual evidence to the contrary. [in the same way as with Apple, people are buying ease of use/California, not made in China]
    I tend to agree. Appeals to patriotism in car-buying (like poor MG-Rover) are always seen as quite desperate and off-putting sadly. It's an instinctive response that makes you think the more flag-waving the shitter the product.

    Domestic producers (waits for laughs to die down) need to be producing better stuff than their foreign competitors. Then the consumer will get behind the 'AND it's British' message. And not before.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    edited September 2016

    Re Rod and election predictions.

    Despite having some shall we say very odd ideas about certain things...for UK elections, I have previously challenged on him on his approach and he was able to provide academic literature upon what he based his model on. Obviously we can argue about the methodology, what adjustments he was making etc, but it certainly wasn't pie in the sky stuff and proved correct for the past 2 GE.

    However, I seemed to remember him saying that a similar approach wasn't applicable for US elections and I don't remember him ever giving any details about what his Trump prediction was based upon.

    He predicted the Obama victory, if he thought Hillary was going to win then he'd have gone with that.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    TGOHF said:

    Speedy said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
    Well according to my average daily tracking poll, the debate does seem to have boosted Hillary's lead by about 1% from 3 before the debate to 4 after.

    But how will Trump overcome a Hillary lead of 4% in 30 days ?

    Especially since he is so bad at debates, and events like Riots and Terrorism boost Hillary intstead of Trump.
    Daily tracking polls were miles off in predicting the Uk election and the Brexit referendum.
    I didn't even know they where any daily tracking polls for Brexit, but I agree the Daily Yougov of 2015 was trash, and British polling in general has a bad reputation for accuracy.

    However I now use 8 tracking polls (only one of them British), so if one of them is trash it wouldn't affect the rest.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Re Rod and election predictions.

    Despite having some shall we say very odd ideas about certain things...for UK elections, I have previously challenged on him on his approach and he was able to provide academic literature upon what he based his model on. Obviously we can argue about the methodology, what adjustments he was making etc, but it certainly wasn't pie in the sky stuff and proved correct for the past 2 GE.

    However, I seemed to remember him saying that a similar approach wasn't applicable for US elections and I don't remember him ever giving any details about what his Trump prediction was based upon.

    He predicted the Obama victory, if he thought Hillary was going to win then he'd have gone with that.
    Without being rude, I think my dog could have predicted an Obama win. No MCMC modelling required.

    I am not doubting he would have said Hiliary if that is what he thought, my point was I have no idea upon what his Trump prediction was based. When he was banging on about swingback and Tories not getting a majority in 2010, I challenged his repeatedly on this and he was able to provide some good responses with academic literature to support it.

    Nate Silver has been woeful at UK GEs, despite having a god like status in the US.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I didn't even know they where any daily tracking polls for Brexit, but I agree the Daily Yougov of 2015 was trash,''

    It was still pored over by many respected posters on here who were openly talking about Labour/SNP coalitions up to the eve of the vote.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    My view, French CEO tries to get government subsidies. Shocking.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    FF43 said:

    I think Nissan Sunderland is OK for the next few years. The Qashqai is selling like hotcakes and they won't want to jeopardise production. After that, Nissan will need tariff free access the EU or they will move production to any number of Renault plants (including in Morocco).

    I though the Qasqai was about to be replaced with the next gen hybrid, and they are deciding where to build it
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    My view, French CEO tries to get government subsidies. Shocking.
    I doubt he'll be alone: a bunch of companies will use this as a chance to extract money from HM Government. ("Well, you see, all this uncertainty... And you wouldn't want the publicity of us announcing the closure of our x factory, would you? Of course, with a £50m regional development grant, we might actually add some jobs...")
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,878
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    Equally the government will want to delay any move from Sunderland until after the next election.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,684
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    My view, French CEO tries to get government subsidies. Shocking.
    I doubt he'll be alone: a bunch of companies will use this as a chance to extract money from HM Government. ("Well, you see, all this uncertainty... And you wouldn't want the publicity of us announcing the closure of our x factory, would you? Of course, with a £50m regional development grant, we might actually add some jobs...")
    I expect there to be a cut in corporation tax to 15%.
  • Options
    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    Why was rod crosby banned?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-could-elect-trump-but-first-they-need-to-register/

    The 'Brexit effect' could sweep Trump to victory, but he isn't registering enough WWC to do so, so far. His crappy ground game is messing him up
  • Options
    619 said:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/missing-white-voters-could-elect-trump-but-first-they-need-to-register/

    The 'Brexit effect' could sweep Trump to victory, but he isn't registering enough WWC to do so, so far. His crappy ground game is messing him up

    We are heading back to does he want actually win at this rate. No ground game, wont do debate prep etc etc.
  • Options

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    Looking how easy it is to extract large amounts of money from May lately (Hinckley, Heathrow, HS2), there is a large chance she will surrender by Monday.

    At least we know the PM is spineless.
  • Options
    <
    kjohnw said:

    CD13 said:

    Re Rod Crosby.

    I find it strange that we have lots of people around who believe all sorts of peculiar things.

    For instance, that Jezza has two brain cells to rub together, that England will win the next World Cup, that communism is a great way to run the world or that the LDs will sweep to victory in the next GE. There are conspiracy theorists a-plenty wherever you look with more imagination than sense.

    We humour them in general, but certain other opinions are not allowed. Holocaust denial is bonkers enough to match any of them, but this one is the great Satan.

    Illogical if nothing else - both the denial and the response.

    Why was rod crosby banned?
    Dont mention the war
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re Nissan:

    Carlos is just being clever. There will probably never be a better time to blackmail the UK government into subsidising any capex you want to do in the next few years.

    My view, French CEO tries to get government subsidies. Shocking.
    I doubt he'll be alone: a bunch of companies will use this as a chance to extract money from HM Government. ("Well, you see, all this uncertainty... And you wouldn't want the publicity of us announcing the closure of our x factory, would you? Of course, with a £50m regional development grant, we might actually add some jobs...")
    Looking at how easy company CEO's can mismanage their company or steal from it (like Wells Fargo proved), I think it's cheaper and more efficient for the government to simply bribe the CEO's directy instead of giving subsidies to the companies.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    TGOHF said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He called the 2015 GE better than 99% of others.
    And?

    Dorothea Puente was a good cook, I'm told.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Speedy said:

    Jobabob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I see alot of Hillary love here today - anyway I checked with THE authority on these matters, and the sage of Crosby thinks it is

    "All going to plan ^_~"

    A loathsome holocaust denier. He makes Trump look like a bleeding heart liberal.
    He is good at calling elections though.

    His successes have mostly come from the Right wing.

    Some of the other stuff he posts is pretty dodgy though.
    Well according to my average daily tracking poll, the debate does seem to have boosted Hillary's lead by about 1% from 3 before the debate to 4 after.

    But how will Trump overcome a Hillary lead of 4% in 30 days ?

    Especially since he is so bad at debates, and events like Riots and Terrorism boost Hillary intstead of Trump.
    When does early voting start in most swing states? That is key – we have seen in both WH2012 and the Brexit referendum that having a decent lead during early voting time can be decisive.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048

    Well if he should get a deal then only Sunderland residents should pay for that deal.

    Why should I fund the mistakes of the Mackems? They were warned beforehand.
    I suggest that wealthy Europhile lawyers like TSE should personally foot the bill of our EU protection money membership fees, until we do finally Brexit.
    What net worth would you judge as wealthy?
    £2 million Net assets imo is wealthy.
This discussion has been closed.