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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “We can get through this”: Don Brind looks at how coffee cup diplomacy could help Labour MPs work together.

When I joined the BBC in the 70s one of the senior writers was regarded a bit of legend for having spotted the start of Ping-Ping diplomacy – what the US official historian describes as “fraternization” between table tennis players from the U.S. and the People’s Republic of China during an international competition in Japan. It led eventually to the 1972 meeting between Nixon and Mao.

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SandyRentool

Is this the thread for Latte-Sipping Liberals?

tpfkar

Even with elections, I thought the Leader could appoint who he wanted on top? I seem to recall Ed Miliband making some direct appointments. So not sure there would be an issue finding a job for John McDonnell.

More fundamentally, this is wishful thinking. The wider party is at war, and even if the MPs pipe down for a bit, there are enough angry footsoldiers to keep fighting in the trenches.

Richard_Nabavi

PB's own Pangloss never fails to find a silver lining, but I fear that John McDonnell is acting nice because he knows that the battle has been won.

Ishmael_X

Are we seeing the beginnings of a mating dance from the non-neutral Mr Brind here?

MaxPB

Desperate stuff. Almost as bad as the pink bus and kitchen table conversations with voters.

MaxPB

New conspiracy theories!

Speedy

I see Don Brind has given up on his almost daily Saving Labour piece.

That the thread talks about diplomacy instead of war is a sign that the war is coming at it's end, and peace talks are on hand.

PlatoSaid

I'm sorry - but I burst out laughing at just the first paragraph.

HYUFD

If Corbyn is re-elected then McDonnell is the only viable alternative leader for Labour in my view before the next general election so if there were frontbench elections it would make sense for Labour MPs to get behind him

HYUFD

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

MaxPB

I find it hard to believe that someone would take a Twitter exchange so seriously as to believe it can save the Labour party from two election cycles of oblivion.

Speedy

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

taffys

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

PlatoSaid

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

TBH, it's the ear thing that almost convinced me this may not be a joke.

They're unique enough to be used like fingerprints for identification.

http://www.yalescientific.org/2011/05/ears-the-new-fingerprints/

Also - the arse/stomach of the person who appeared waving in blue glasses wasn't the same shape as bell tent Hillary. That person is about a stone or more thinner.

It's probably all angles and stuff, but a bit weird.

SouthamObserver

The problem that the Corbyn team faces is that this government is creating a lot for a competent, well-led opposition to aim at. There are clearly splits on Europe, while the grammar school announcement should be an open goal, given that by their very nature grammar schools exclude the majority of the population.

As I wrote last week, Corbyn will win, but that will not suddenly make him a competent leader or someone who can stick to a collective position or someone who can reach out beyond his comfort zone. He has already lost supporters from the pre-September 2015 cohort of members and he will lose more over the coming year to 18 months as it becomes clear he cannot come close to delivering a serious challenge to the Tories.

The PLP is right to offer the hand of unity with shadow cabinet elections, as well as a request to drop talk of deselections etc. It has to be seen to be meeting Corbyn halfway. But it takes two to tango. Corbyn just cannot reciprocate.

For anyone watching - and I know not many are - the mood music at the TUC is instructive. Already a motion has been passed saying that it is vital for the UK to remain a part of the single market. That is in direct contradiction of Corbyn's unilaterally announced policy last week. We'll see a similar gap over Trident renewal.

rottenborough

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

HYUFD

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

MaxPB

SouthamObserver said:

The problem that the Corbyn team faces is that this government is creating a lot for a competent, well-led opposition to aim at. There are clearly splits on Europe, while the grammar school announcement should be an open goal, given that by their very nature grammar schools exclude the majority of the population.

As I wrote last week, Corbyn will win, but that will not suddenly make him a competent leader or someone who can stick to a collective position or someone who can reach out beyond his comfort zone. He has already lost supporters from the pre-September 2015 cohort of members and he will lose more over the coming year to 18 months as it becomes clear he cannot come close to delivering a serious challenge to the Tories.

The PLP is right to offer the hand of unity with shadow cabinet elections, as well as a request to drop talk of deselections etc. It has to be seen to be meeting Corbyn halfway. But it takes two to tango. Corbyn just cannot reciprocate.

For anyone watching - and I know not many are - the mood music at the TUC is instructive. Already a motion has been passed saying that it is vital for the UK to remain a part of the single market. That is in direct contradiction of Corbyn's unilaterally announced policy last week. We'll see a similar gap over Trident renewal.

Surely tough for Corbyn to come out against grammar schools. He'll need to welcome them, but ensure that they don't diminish schools that don't become grammars.

rottenborough

SouthamObserver said:

The problem that the Corbyn team faces is that this government is creating a lot for a competent, well-led opposition to aim at. There are clearly splits on Europe, while the grammar school announcement should be an open goal, given that by their very nature grammar schools exclude the majority of the population.

As I wrote last week, Corbyn will win, but that will not suddenly make him a competent leader or someone who can stick to a collective position or someone who can reach out beyond his comfort zone. He has already lost supporters from the pre-September 2015 cohort of members and he will lose more over the coming year to 18 months as it becomes clear he cannot come close to delivering a serious challenge to the Tories.

The PLP is right to offer the hand of unity with shadow cabinet elections, as well as a request to drop talk of deselections etc. It has to be seen to be meeting Corbyn halfway. But it takes two to tango. Corbyn just cannot reciprocate.

For anyone watching - and I know not many are - the mood music at the TUC is instructive. Already a motion has been passed saying that it is vital for the UK to remain a part of the single market. That is in direct contradiction of Corbyn's unilaterally announced policy last week. We'll see a similar gap over Trident renewal.

The Labour conference should be a hoot with these kinds of divisions.

ThreeQuidder

Seems optimistic.

Ishmael_X

rottenborough said:

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

Mine isn't, it is markedly longer.

ThreeQuidder

FPT

peter_from_putney said:

logical_song said:

Is it morally correct to take $700,000 a year for running a charity?
http://www.newstatesman.com/2016/09/what-david-miliband-thinks-jeremy-corbyn

Precisely the reason why I stopped contributing to big name charities many years ago. These days I restrict myself to smaller local charities, e.g. hospices, etc.

I do hate it when celebrities on charity specials do it for big name national charities.

MaxPB

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

Ishmael_X

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

And if they get the technology right as with ESTA it's no big deal anyway.

HYUFD

MaxPB said:

SouthamObserver said:

The problem that the Corbyn team faces is that this government is creating a lot for a competent, well-led opposition to aim at. There are clearly splits on Europe, while the grammar school announcement should be an open goal, given that by their very nature grammar schools exclude the majority of the population.

As I wrote last week, Corbyn will win, but that will not suddenly make him a competent leader or someone who can stick to a collective position or someone who can reach out beyond his comfort zone. He has already lost supporters from the pre-September 2015 cohort of members and he will lose more over the coming year to 18 months as it becomes clear he cannot come close to delivering a serious challenge to the Tories.

The PLP is right to offer the hand of unity with shadow cabinet elections, as well as a request to drop talk of deselections etc. It has to be seen to be meeting Corbyn halfway. But it takes two to tango. Corbyn just cannot reciprocate.

For anyone watching - and I know not many are - the mood music at the TUC is instructive. Already a motion has been passed saying that it is vital for the UK to remain a part of the single market. That is in direct contradiction of Corbyn's unilaterally announced policy last week. We'll see a similar gap over Trident renewal.

Surely tough for Corbyn to come out against grammar schools. He'll need to welcome them, but ensure that they don't diminish schools that don't become grammars.

Labour is the only party where a plurality of its voters not only oppose new grammars but want to close existing ones, a majority of Tory and UKIP voters and a plurality of LDs back more grammars

Richard_Nabavi

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

rottenborough

Ishmael_X said:

rottenborough said:

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

Mine isn't, it is markedly longer.

I meant in the photos. There are all the same as far as I can see. Unless I am missing something.

HYUFD

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

It was the Home Secretary who suggested it and she will clearly have had preliminary discussions with her EU counterparts even if she did back Remain

SimonStClare

Indeed Mr Brind, not at all on the same epic scale as Nixon goes to China. Ta for the laughs..

theakes

Mr Brind goes from one cloud to another, what is he on, I would like some.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

SandyRentool

Ishmael_X said:

rottenborough said:

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

Mine isn't, it is markedly longer.

When I look at the front of my hand, the ring finger looks shorter, but when I turn my hand around and look at the back, the index finger looks shorter...

Richard_Nabavi

MaxPB said:

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

I'm not sure it would make much difference, actually. An online visa-waiver (which is essentially an on-line visa-application under a different name) scheme would be a bit of a pain but wouldn't deter tourism significantly, especially for Brits seeking the sun. Lots of Brits used to get visas to holiday in Egypt.

PlatoSaid

Oh my word

NBC turns on Hillary

Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

HYUFD

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

I agree, certainly France, Spain and Italy get more UK visitors than the reverse, though London gets more visitors than Paris, Madrid and Rome

JohnO

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Frau M is not the Fuehrerin you think she is.

Ishmael_X

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

I'm not sure it would make much difference, actually. An online visa-waiver (which is essentially an on-line visa-application under a different name) scheme would be a bit of a pain but wouldn't deter tourism significantly, especially for Brits seeking the sun. Lots of Brits used to get visas to holiday in Egypt.

And Turkey, and Kenya - and in both cases you can just hand over £20 or whatever it is at the airport on your way in.

MarqueeMark

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

Has nobody told them the war is over?

They lost.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

I'm not sure it would make much difference, actually. An online visa-waiver (which is essentially an on-line visa-application under a different name) scheme would be a bit of a pain but wouldn't deter tourism significantly, especially for Brits seeking the sun. Lots of Brits used to get visas to holiday in Egypt.

Yes, but that's still a visa-waiver programme, not an actual visa which is apparently being proposed by the Commission. A VWP like ESTA wouldn't be an issue, I sort of expect there to be one if we are to have a harder border with the EU. We'll need a way to track people who have overstayed their welcome and are possibly working illegally.

SimonStClare

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Casino_Royale

JohnO said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Frau M is not the Fuehrerin you think she is.

Juncker should go though.

JonathanD

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

I'm not sure it would make much difference, actually. An online visa-waiver (which is essentially an on-line visa-application under a different name) scheme would be a bit of a pain but wouldn't deter tourism significantly, especially for Brits seeking the sun. Lots of Brits used to get visas to holiday in Egypt.

Yes, but that's still a visa-waiver programme, not an actual visa which is apparently being proposed by the Commission. A VWP like ESTA wouldn't be an issue,

The commission is proposing a visa waver program like ESTA.

"France and Germany both back a system based on the US ESTA scheme, under which visitors from countries that do not require full visas must apply online for permission to travel,"

PlatoSaid

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Being ditched for 90mins pissed a load of them right off.

Richard_Nabavi

MaxPB said:

Yes, but that's still a visa-waiver programme, not an actual visa which is apparently being proposed by the Commission. A VWP like ESTA wouldn't be an issue, I sort of expect there to be one if we are to have a harder border with the EU. We'll need a way to track people who have overstayed their welcome and are possibly working illegally.

ESTA is just a fast-track visa. They ask a few questions and check you against their databases. Calling it a 'visa waiver' is just spin - it's a visa, which you pay for and which is only issued if there are no adverse flags thrown up by the computer checks.

ThreeQuidder

SouthamObserver said:

The problem that the Corbyn team faces is that this government is creating a lot for a competent, well-led opposition to aim at. There are clearly splits on Europe

There's only one party split on whether the referendum result should be respected, and it ain't the Tories!

MaxPB

JohnO said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Frau M is not the Fuehrerin you think she is.

She's not? Damn my posters of her in a certain grey uniform need updating!

Seriously though, it is time for Germany to stand up and be counted. Being supine to Juncker has already hurt them and there are actions she could take to force his resignation. Defunding the Commission and possibly even the EU until he resigns would be my first threat.

taffys

''You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account. ''

We've seen it on PB a hundred times. Its the cover up that gets you, not the incident.

MaxPB

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

Yes, but that's still a visa-waiver programme, not an actual visa which is apparently being proposed by the Commission. A VWP like ESTA wouldn't be an issue, I sort of expect there to be one if we are to have a harder border with the EU. We'll need a way to track people who have overstayed their welcome and are possibly working illegally.

ESTA is just a fast-track visa. They ask a few questions and check you against their databases. Calling it a 'visa waiver' is just spin - it's a visa, which you pay for and which is only issued if there are no adverse flags thrown up by the computer checks.

Yes, but it doesn't involve going to the US embassy and handing over one's passport for a week or two as I've had to do for a Chinese visa. I also wouldn't be surprised if we just ended up having a passport stamp on arrival which is checked off on leaving.

We will now need exit checks though, which is an additional cost for the Home Office.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/775310170071166976

DecrepitJohnL

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Sheer incompetence by Team Hillary to choose a body double who has pneumonia as well as the wrong ears and fingers.

But don't overlook the possibility this is bad for Trump as well, if there is an increased focus on what he might be hiding about his own health. If, of course, he is hiding something rather than just not releasing anything beyond the claim that he will be the healthiest president ever.

TOPPING

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Slackbladder

DecrepitJohnL said:

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Sheer incompetence by Team Hillary to choose a body double who has pneumonia as well as the wrong ears and fingers.

But don't overlook the possibility this is bad for Trump as well, if there is an increased focus on what he might be hiding about his own health. If, of course, he is hiding something rather than just not releasing anything beyond the claim that he will be the healthiest president ever.

Isn't the 'theory' that it was hilary at the 9/11 event, but the double was the one which turned up a bit later with the child.

the fact we're even debating this is crazy.

tlg86

TheScreamingEagles said:

Is this why Lady Nugee has been so keen to be loyal to the leader?

Ishmael_X

DecrepitJohnL said:

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Sheer incompetence by Team Hillary to choose a body double who has pneumonia as well as the wrong ears and fingers.

But don't overlook the possibility this is bad for Trump as well, if there is an increased focus on what he might be hiding about his own health. If, of course, he is hiding something rather than just not releasing anything beyond the claim that he will be the healthiest president ever.

No, real Hillary collapsed with pneumonia, the body double was smuggled into the daughter's apartment and emerged to say she was ok.

TOPPING

DecrepitJohnL said:

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Sheer incompetence by Team Hillary to choose a body double who has pneumonia as well as the wrong ears and fingers.

But don't overlook the possibility this is bad for Trump as well, if there is an increased focus on what he might be hiding about his own health. If, of course, he is hiding something rather than just not releasing anything beyond the claim that he will be the healthiest president ever.

Trump played it (perhaps un)surprisingly well on his radio interview. Wishes her well; agrees with interviewer health is an issue; says will release plenty of stats from his recent medical.

PlatoSaid

"It’s often not the crime that undoes a politician, it’s the attempted cover-up. In Hillary Clinton’s case there’s no real crime, of course – no one can fault her for falling ill yet still ploughing through her schedule.

On the contrary, it’s rather admirable. But what the world saw on Sunday as she fell into her car was deeply distressing. She was clearly unable to walk, propped up against a pillar and held steady by an aide. Her head wobbled, her knees buckled. And down she went.

This display of infirmity came at the very worst moment possible: a ceremony to commemorate the victims of 9/11. America feels vulnerable, it needs direction and strength. The sight of Mrs Clinton’s fall suggests that she isn’t physically capable of providing either.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/12/the-worst-condition-hillary-clinton-suffers-from-isnt-pneumonia/

GIN1138

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

MarqueeMark

What do Hillary's people say next? Presumably not the truth....

TOPPING

Note: this thread, given the actual subject, is quite confusing when the term "Team Hillary" is bandied about.

Paul_Bedfordshire

Interesting legal news. It appears that 500 people convicted of murder including Stephen Lawrences killers could have their conviction overturned after a supreme court ruling that Joint Enterprise law had been misinterpreted for 30 years


http://dailym.ai/2cytfcT

MaxPB

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

TOPPING

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

I'm sure it will. Some people will end up in Norfolk instead of Paris. All part of the mostly imperceptible hassle of not being an EU member any more.

But as mentioned in my post, do you really think that nothing will change save for those couple of ECJ rulings you believe constitute an egregious violation of our sovereignty (to which we will adhere anyway)?

weejonnie

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

Ishmael_X

PlatoSaid said:

"It’s often not the crime that undoes a politician, it’s the attempted cover-up. In Hillary Clinton’s case there’s no real crime, of course – no one can fault her for falling ill yet still ploughing through her schedule.

On the contrary, it’s rather admirable. But what the world saw on Sunday as she fell into her car was deeply distressing. She was clearly unable to walk, propped up against a pillar and held steady by an aide. Her head wobbled, her knees buckled. And down she went.

This display of infirmity came at the very worst moment possible: a ceremony to commemorate the victims of 9/11. America feels vulnerable, it needs direction and strength. The sight of Mrs Clinton’s fall suggests that she isn’t physically capable of providing either.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/12/the-worst-condition-hillary-clinton-suffers-from-isnt-pneumonia/

Not necessarily right in this case, because it may be that what is being covered up is much more serious than "falling ill yet still ploughing through her schedule" and would of itself automatically rule her out of the presidency.

AlastairMeeks

This probably isn't the thread to link to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/775308968730255361

PlatoSaid

General Election
Opinium

% of a parties voters who OPPOSE

new selective grammar schools being built

LAB 39%
GRN 28%
LD 24%
UKIP 14%
CON 9%

HYUFD

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

Yes but it is cheaper to go to Spain, France or Greece than Florida, California or Australia so while some might switch others may just end up going to Blackpool, Bournemouth or Southend instead. Amongst the few winners from Brexit will be UK seaside resorts

edmundintokyo

JonathanD said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

I'm not sure it would make much difference, actually. An online visa-waiver (which is essentially an on-line visa-application under a different name) scheme would be a bit of a pain but wouldn't deter tourism significantly, especially for Brits seeking the sun. Lots of Brits used to get visas to holiday in Egypt.

Yes, but that's still a visa-waiver programme, not an actual visa which is apparently being proposed by the Commission. A VWP like ESTA wouldn't be an issue,

The commission is proposing a visa waver program like ESTA.

"France and Germany both back a system based on the US ESTA scheme, under which visitors from countries that do not require full visas must apply online for permission to travel,"

This is a stupid idea that's only supported by countries with elections coming up, I'd have thought it would go away after the elections had passed.

rottenborough

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/775310170071166976

Not quite as exciting as it sounds. Looks like he'll be slotted into the replacement.

PlatoSaid

Slackbladder said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

SimonStClare said:

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word
NBC turns on Hillary
Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

You can only change the 'official line' so many times, before the media gets angry for being taken for fools. - Team Hilary have lost the trust element over this obviously false account.

Sheer incompetence by Team Hillary to choose a body double who has pneumonia as well as the wrong ears and fingers.

But don't overlook the possibility this is bad for Trump as well, if there is an increased focus on what he might be hiding about his own health. If, of course, he is hiding something rather than just not releasing anything beyond the claim that he will be the healthiest president ever.

Isn't the 'theory' that it was hilary at the 9/11 event, but the double was the one which turned up a bit later with the child.

the fact we're even debating this is crazy.

Isn't it weird fun though? Perhaps Mossad is assisting

weejonnie

Maybe the body double was told to leave early so she couldn't be questioned and in a cinderellaesque moment couldn't walk in those shoes and so tripped and left one behind.

A body double would explain those sunglasses as well - maybe the wrong colour eyes . . .

DavidL

SandyRentool said:

Ishmael_X said:

rottenborough said:

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

Mine isn't, it is markedly longer.

When I look at the front of my hand, the ring finger looks shorter, but when I turn my hand around and look at the back, the index finger looks shorter...

You actually made me do that. Do I feel stupid? Oh yes.

Ishmael_X

HYUFD said:

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

Yes but it is cheaper to go to Spain, France or Greece than Florida, California or Australia so while some might switch others may just end up going to Blackpool, Bournemouth or Southend instead. Amongst the few winners from Brexit will be UK seaside resorts

Slightly poor examples - USA and Australia both want visas. And I think people only ever went to Blackpool because they had no idea the Mediterranean existed, and now the cat is out of the bag they won't be going back there to save £20.

Paul_Bedfordshire

AlastairMeeks said:

This probably isn't the thread to link to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/775308968730255361

Was it a far left or far right brick or just a pissed off constituent brick?

GIN1138

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what was the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

ThreeQuidder

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

Is this really any more hassle than API?

weejonnie

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

AlastairMeeks said:

This probably isn't the thread to link to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/775308968730255361

Was it a far left or far right brick or just a pissed off constituent brick?

Most likely a red one (groan).

PlatoSaid

weejonnie said:

Maybe the body double was told to leave early so she couldn't be questioned and in a cinderellaesque moment couldn't walk in those shoes and so tripped and left one behind.

A body double would explain those sunglasses as well - maybe the wrong colour eyes . . .

I can't believe I'm doing this - but it's her arse/apple shape that doesn't look right either. And the hair is flat. Hillary never looks like that - it's always bouffed up.

Ishmael_X

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

ThreeQuidder

weejonnie said:

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

AlastairMeeks said:

This probably isn't the thread to link to this tweet:

https://twitter.com/HuffPostUKPol/status/775308968730255361

Was it a far left or far right brick or just a pissed off constituent brick?

Most likely a red one (groan).

If a red house is made of red bricks and a yellow house is made of yellow bricks...

PlatoSaid

DavidL said:

SandyRentool said:

Ishmael_X said:

rottenborough said:

Speedy said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Since one conspiracy theory might be proven correct, we now have to watch our backs.
Who knows, with Hillary it might be correct.

I wouldn't want to outright reject those notions and embarrass myself like the Washington Post did, if they ever come true.

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Eh. The ring finger is shorter. What are they talking about?

Mine isn't, it is markedly longer.

When I look at the front of my hand, the ring finger looks shorter, but when I turn my hand around and look at the back, the index finger looks shorter...

You actually made me do that. Do I feel stupid? Oh yes.

Don't try to lick your elbow....

HYUFD

Ishmael_X said:

HYUFD said:

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist o leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

Yes but it is cheaper to go to Spain, France or Greece than Florida, California or Australia so while some might switch others may just end up going to Blackpool, Bournemouth or Southend instead. Amongst the few winners from Brexit will be UK seaside resorts

Slightly poor examples - USA and Australia both want visas. And I think people only ever went to Blackpool because they had no idea the Mediterranean existed, and now the cat is out of the bag they won't be going back there to save £20.

Depends how onerous the visa requirements imposed by the EU were to be, the U.S. for example has visa waivers. Some will undoubtedly still go to EU nations even with the hassle of visas and the extra cost, some may prefer to stay at home

DavidL

The way things have been going I am amazed they are brave enough to drink the coffee.

taffys

''I can't believe I'm doing this - but it's her arse/apple shape that doesn't look right either. And the hair is flat. Hillary never looks like that - it's always bouffed up. ''

There is something of the 'Dear Leader' about all this

PlatoSaid

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

*swaps clothes*

GIN1138

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

Well I think "Pretend Hilary" looks/sounds more like "REAL Hilary" than "Fainting Hilary"?

Pulpstar

Hold on wasn't Owen Smith a 50-50 runner according to Mr Brind ?

PlatoSaid

GIN1138 said:

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

Well I think "Pretend Hilary" looks/sounds more like "REAL Hilary" than "Fainting Hilary"?

I never knew so many body doubles existed - seen dozens on Twitter for Stalin, Saddam...

GIN1138

taffys said:

''I can't believe I'm doing this - but it's her arse/apple shape that doesn't look right either. And the hair is flat. Hillary never looks like that - it's always bouffed up. ''

There is something of the 'Dear Leader' about all this

Where's Tapestry when you need him?

Ishmael_X

GIN1138 said:

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

Well I think "Pretend Hilary" looks/sounds more like "REAL Hilary" than "Fainting Hilary"?

I tend to agree; I am just expounding the theory, not endorsing it.

FrancisUrquhart

PlatoSaid said:

Oh my word

NBC turns on Hillary

Hillary Clinton's health scare: 9 unanswered questions https://t.co/w03JsuTgzA https://t.co/WDdXFgtd0Q

I notice some of the talking heads on US media try to shut down this story that talk of Clinton's health is sexist, that one would never do that for a male candidate....cough cough McCain....

TCPoliticalBetting

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

MaxPB said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

MaxPB said:

HYUFD said:

taffys said:

HYUFD said:

The Telegraph reports today that Amber Rudd has suggested the EU may require visas for all future UK visitors to any EU nation, she also suggested if that did come to pass visas would also be required for all EU tourists visiting the UK

Rudd might be better off asking whether the two million plus British troops who helped to liberate Europe from Nazism would have needed visas

That may have worked 25 years ago, less so today when most have passed away

It doesn't matter because we're never going to have a visitor visa system with the EU. This is must Remoaner scaremongering.

No it's not, it's a response to an EU Commission proposal:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/britons-may-have-to-apply-to-visit-europe-under-eu-visa-scheme

It's still stupid because we won't ever have visas with the EU. I'm not sure that the EU is stupid enough to cut off tourist income from a nation which spends significantly more abroad than it receives from tourism.

Honestly, it's time for Mrs Merkel grow some balls and sack the whole Commission. Juncker has become unhinged.

Max stop seeing things in such dramatic terms. Intituting a visa system, if it happens, won't "cut off tourist income...blah...blah..." If it happens, it will just make it slightly less convenient to go to the EU countries. No one will die, just a slight diminution in ease of life for many.

It sums up the consequences of our decision to leave quite well.

Or do you really think that every single aspect of our EU membership will stay the same, except the one or two arcane things you believe should stop?

Increasing the hassle and bureaucracy will deter some people from going to Europe when we have agreements with first world countries where no visa is required.

True. It is just another example of the reasons why the EU Commission has been very bad for the economies it has a say in their operation.

stodge

Afternoon all

Given the history of American Presidents and their health, I'm surprised anyone is bothered at all by Hillary Clinton's health issue. First, let me wish her well - pneumonia isn't pleasant but it can be overcome.

I'm puzzled by the wave of anti-Clinton hysteria on here. No one has explained to me how a Trump Presidency would benefit Britain let alone America. If I had a vote in the US election, I wouldn't be backing the Donald under any circumstances. I do accept neither candidate is an FDR or a Reagan but it is a transition before the next wave of younger candidates emerges.

Trump is simply a mirror on which people reflect their anger, sense of entitlement, loss of identity etc. I've yet to hear a scintilla of a constructive programme or policy beyond building a wall and of course tax cuts for the wealthy.

Apart from some desire to "kick the Establishment", why would anyone vote for Trump or want to see him win ?

PlatoSaid

Bit tame but it's the meme Trump on Deplorables

https://youtu.be/gj7CLJbyjrk

TOPPING

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

Well I think "Pretend Hilary" looks/sounds more like "REAL Hilary" than "Fainting Hilary"?

I tend to agree; I am just expounding the theory, not endorsing it.

I know our resident doctor put it down to simple fainting but there was, to my couldn't be less trained eye, something of a fit about her collapse. That is what is so disturbing.

HYUFD

stodge said:

Afternoon all

Given the history of American Presidents and their health, I'm surprised anyone is bothered at all by Hillary Clinton's health issue. First, let me wish her well - pneumonia isn't pleasant but it can be overcome.

I'm puzzled by the wave of anti-Clinton hysteria on here. No one has explained to me how a Trump Presidency would benefit Britain let alone America. If I had a vote in the US election, I wouldn't be backing the Donald under any circumstances. I do accept neither candidate is an FDR or a Reagan but it is a transition before the next wave of younger candidates emerges.

Trump is simply a mirror on which people reflect their anger, sense of entitlement, loss of identity etc. I've yet to hear a scintilla of a constructive programme or policy beyond building a wall and of course tax cuts for the wealthy.

Apart from some desire to "kick the Establishment", why would anyone vote for Trump or want to see him win ?

The main positive for Trump in UK terms is he backed Brexit unlike Hillary. However in the round Hillary would still probably be a better choice for Britain

FrancisUrquhart

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

Ishmael_X said:

GIN1138 said:

weejonnie said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

New conspiracy theories!

Bill Clinton: I'll just pop upstairs and ask her to stop dying and then you call come up and identify her!

I don't know whether this is good or bad for her - If it isn't her, the only reason is that she was too ill to take part in the commemoration - so how does that help her? I note she has cancelled fund-raising trips to the land of milk and honey - which she presumably wouldn't have done if she had recovered enough to be dancing in the street with a young girl.

She may have pneumonia (or heatstroke etc) - if not why not admit it? Anyone can have a short illness totally unrelated to their age or chronic conditions (if any).

If this isn't THE Hilary what the "fainting" episode all about? It's bad luck for the real Mrs Clinton to be ill AND the actress/impostor to be taken ill at the same time?

Real Hillary faints, gets taken to daughter's apartment. Pretend Hillary is smuggled into apartment building, emerges 90 mins later to say everything now fine.

Well I think "Pretend Hilary" looks/sounds more like "REAL Hilary" than "Fainting Hilary"?

I tend to agree; I am just expounding the theory, not endorsing it.

I know our resident doctor put it down to simple fainting but there was, to my couldn't be less trained eye, something of a fit about her collapse. That is what is so disturbing.

It seemed rather similar to those other two clips of strange Clinton behaviour. Perhaps she had pneumonia then too.

TheScreamingEagles

Jeremy Corbyn’s Islington seat is to vanish from the map following the boundary changes, leaving Jez to fight it out for a new seat called Finsbury Park and Stoke Newington. Sources with intimate knowledge of the Boundary Review tell Guido that the new seat will take in the ward of Stamford Hill West in Hackney. Stamford Hill West forms part of a 30,000 strong Orthodox Jewish community. 37.6% of people living Stamford Hill West identify as Jewish.

http://order-order.com/2016/09/12/oy-vey-corbyns-new-seat-home-to-huge-jewish-community/

MaxPB

stodge said:

Afternoon all

Given the history of American Presidents and their health, I'm surprised anyone is bothered at all by Hillary Clinton's health issue. First, let me wish her well - pneumonia isn't pleasant but it can be overcome.

I'm puzzled by the wave of anti-Clinton hysteria on here. No one has explained to me how a Trump Presidency would benefit Britain let alone America. If I had a vote in the US election, I wouldn't be backing the Donald under any circumstances. I do accept neither candidate is an FDR or a Reagan but it is a transition before the next wave of younger candidates emerges.

Trump is simply a mirror on which people reflect their anger, sense of entitlement, loss of identity etc. I've yet to hear a scintilla of a constructive programme or policy beyond building a wall and of course tax cuts for the wealthy.

Apart from some desire to "kick the Establishment", why would anyone vote for Trump or want to see him win ?

As someone who though Trump would pivot, I'm mostly in agreement. He hasn't and would not be a good POTUS. I'm hoping Hillary backs out and Kaine is able to run in her place. He seems like an all around safer pair of hands.

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

Jeremy Corbyn’s Islington seat is to vanish from the map following the boundary changes, leaving Jez to fight it out for a new seat called Finsbury Park and Stoke Newington. Sources with intimate knowledge of the Boundary Review tell Guido that the new seat will take in the ward of Stamford Hill West in Hackney. Stamford Hill West forms part of a 30,000 strong Orthodox Jewish community. 37.6% of people living Stamford Hill West identify as Jewish.

http://order-order.com/2016/09/12/oy-vey-corbyns-new-seat-home-to-huge-jewish-community/

Heart of stone etc...

Might give the boundary reforms enough rebel Labour support to go through if these are confirmed.