Of course it's possible that one or more of them might actually be called Dave.
Isn't the difference (and the point) that this has been described as a hate crime?
The report suggests it was an attack motivated by race hate or xenophobia, whereas those parodied on here (that you dislike?) are those attacks by muslims on non muslims that are made to look as if there were no racial/religious motivation
I dislike the 'parodies' for their tedious repetitiveness more than anything else.
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
I think we will see and hear a lot more of Dan Jarvis after 24th September. He is very strong in his local constituency party and so not vulnerable.
If he is strong in his local constituency, then his best bet is to follow JohnO's advice below.
Keep quiet, and be ready to pick up the pieces in 2020. If Corbyn's win is as big as implied by YouGov, there is no point in wasting energy by picking an unwinnable fight right now.
I don't think we'll here anything from Dan until after 2020. He is perfectly placed then.
No, he won't challenge, but he will become a lot more visible. He seems to have a direct line into the Mirror, which is a decent place to start for a Labour MP. He has played a very canny game up to now.
A colleague of mine reckons that Kinnock is the man to watch. He was certainly visible during the Indyref campaign.
Eh? In what sense?
I saw him on the news more than just about any other Labour Remainer.
If I was a betting man, I might be tempted to put a few Euro on him as next Labour leader.
There is sufficient murk concerning his tax affairs and the private education of his daughter (on which he appears to have lied to get the Aberavon nomination) that I think Stephen Kinnock has no chance.
As a Labour Remainer, Kinnock couldn't even get his own seat to vote Remain (although nor could Owen Smith or Dan Jarvis).
Hillary is a crap product using almost any yardstick. Trump offers something different - it's hopey-changy, but with a hard edge of jobs jobs jobs.
His pitch to black voters is something I'm watching closely. It's such an intriguing angle/third rail stuff.
You mean how low Trump may go with black voters with the latest PPP showing the Donald with a 97% disapproval rate (3% undecided) and being seen as less acceptable than the plague ....
Miss Plato, Clinton's problem is that her support's lukewarm. Trump drives away a lot of votes but also has passionate support, so it's an interesting dynamic.
It is - it's such a pity that there's so few informed Brits on Twitter re this election. Our media is obviously agin Trump too and frankly I can't be bothered with the Times World section here either.
I rely on PB and a dozen or so US tweeters for info.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc.
Of course it's possible that one or more of them might actually be called Dave.
Isn't the difference (and the point) that this has been described as a hate crime?
The report suggests it was an attack motivated by race hate or xenophobia, whereas those parodied on here (that you dislike?) are those attacks by muslims on non muslims that are made to look as if there were no racial/religious motivation
I dislike the 'parodies' for their tedious repetitiveness more than anything else.
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
I think you’ll find it is the media and authorities who are being lampooned on PB for their less than honest reporting of such events.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc.
I suspect their experience is limited more by social contact than physical geography.
Hillary is a crap product using almost any yardstick. Trump offers something different - it's hopey-changy, but with a hard edge of jobs jobs jobs.
His pitch to black voters is something I'm watching closely. It's such an intriguing angle/third rail stuff.
Hillary has the electoral appeal of Cherie Blair. At best.
Great analogy. Interesting challenge from Trump re full medical records too. I thought the Hillary health thing was all stuff and nonsense - I'm beginning to wonder now.
Of course it's possible that one or more of them might actually be called Dave.
Isn't the difference (and the point) that this has been described as a hate crime?
The report suggests it was an attack motivated by race hate or xenophobia, whereas those parodied on here (that you dislike?) are those attacks by muslims on non muslims that are made to look as if there were no racial/religious motivation
I dislike the 'parodies' for their tedious repetitiveness more than anything else.
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
Seems to be the motivation for the "parodies" is that when a muslim attacks someone, the religious element is played down. Here the xenophobic element is at the forefront of the article, which is more ammo for those whose posts you dislike.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc.
I suspect their experience is limited more by social contact than physical geography.
The Momentum supporters in Oxford that I know seem to represent a very middle class group who believe they are on a quasi-moral crusade and have no idea how anyone could oppose their views.
One of them did admit that she wouldn't actually want to live under a Corbyn regime.
Only Drudge and The Donald get excited about the LA Tracker .... and former PBers now enjoying an extended period on the naughty step.
Not just LA Times. There are a few that have been moving to Trump with the debates yet to come.
I linked earlier to an article in "The Hill" showing a tightening in the national polls. Clinton now about +5-6. The LA tracker is the significant outlier. IMO they got their sample wrong and their results reflect that.
As I've always indicated since 2008 the national polls provide the mood music but it is reliable swing state polls that are the full orchestra. Trump has no traction here. He is behind in all the states that matter and in some - Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia and Colorado by significant margins.
The debates may change the narrative for Trump or reinforce and increase the Clinton lead.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc. The tragedy is that they think of themselves as intensely worldly.
I feel genuinely sorry for the Corbynistas like @YBarddCwsc and @bigjohnowls - they're quite right re the Blair years - their Party was hijacked then - and now they're pulling the other way instead.
I've a couple of dozen Corbyn fans I chat with quite regularly and whilst our politics are poles apart - we get on fine most of the time. It's the starry eyed youngsters and aged Trots who go blocking heavy if you dare to tease or politely question a viewpoint.
I think the main point was made on the previous thread ( sorry can't remember who).
The splitters would find it very difficult if not impossible to retain their Labour seats if another candidate branded Labour stood against them.
However......
Any MP that has not already declared themselves an apostle of the great messiah is a sitting duck for deselection and will lose their seat anyway whatever they now try to do or say. They are already identified of course as they well know
Truly a damned either way.......no win situation......catch 22.
"Should I stay or should I go?"
So...either lose vs Jezza's Labour, get deslected, or...the third possibility: do nothing and be part of the great Labour wipeout under Jez in 2020.
(Someone said an idea was to ruffle none of Jezza's feathers, sit tight, and hope Lab gets wiped out in 2020 but that their own seat would be spared. Too complicated to be a likely scenario.)
IMO better to split and be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc.
I suspect their experience is limited more by social contact than physical geography.
The Momentum supporters in Oxford that I know seem to represent a very middle class group who believe they are on a quasi-moral crusade and have no idea how anyone could oppose their views.
One of them did admit that she wouldn't actually want to live under a Corbyn regime.
Go figure that one...
If there was any real chance that Corbyn might actually win, a number of his supporters may decline to vote.
The figures from YouGov are remarkable on a number of levels. They represent as fundamental a revolution within Labour as the emergence of Thatcherism was for the Conservatives in the 1970s.
Thatcher won in 1975 on the back of an anti-Heath vote - Corbyn won in 2015 on the back of an anti-Blair and anti-Brown vote. It was the manifestation of discontent with the established order within the party and the desire for a new direction.
That Corbyn speaks to and for some people is undeniable. Personally, I find him a likeable and engaging soul. He talks about issues - housing, the NHS and public services - that concern people and should be discussed and debated widely and fully. Does he have the answers ? No. Is he right to ask the questions ? Yes.
The fact the Conservatives will be obsessing on Brexit for most of the next two or three years doesn't alter the fact there are big issues beyond Europe that need time and consideration as well.
Yet Labour, it seems, won't be talking about those either.
I've been a paid up member of a political party most of my adult life - you accept changes in policy and leader as part and parcel of progress. Everyone has their "red lines" however beyond which "my party right or wrong" no longer works. Conservatives who just a few months ago were passionate adherents of Cameron and Osborne now dance on their political graves and pay homage to May and Hammond.
Anyway, let's take the classic example of my own seat - Cannock. Around 100,000 inhabitants, 90% urban, ex-coal mining, public sector employment at roughly 10% at a guess, the rest in skilled/semi skilled light industry or retail. One or two wealthy pockets but mostly quite poor. House prices are low and so is immigration. Has voted Labour 1945-70 and again 1992-2010 (possibly with one other spell in between).
The workers are simply not interested in Corbyn. They even dislike him. They actually expressed interest in Miliband, but they were turned off in the election by the fact that the Labour candidate was a certifiable lunatic who thought the way to win an election in Mid-Staffordshire was to campaign on Labour's record on the NHS.
With rare exceptions the public sector are increasingly embarrassed by Corbyn's antics, and study their coffee mugs when people talk about him. He sometimes makes good points, they mumble, but...
Which leaves the prospect that Labour will come third if UKIP pick the candidate who spent half his time railing against the iniquities of the EU and half his time fighting to save the disabled children's playground.
Now Cannock is typical of many seats in the WM or even the north. It is the type of seat that Labour have got to win to take power, and challenge in to remain relevant. But here, Corbyn's leadership is causing them to disintegrate.
We've established Labour are writing off the south despite there being many winnable seats there. They are losing ground in the Midlands. If they are struggling in Cannock, I have no doubt they will struggle in the semi-rural north. Which raises the question - where and what can they win under Corbyn?
And that is why, whatever Smith's faults and inadequacies, it is desperately important that he should win, even if he then has to resign later in favour of someone better.
And to add to that - therefore this time there is a merit in a split. Because it could hardly make things worse but it might just conceivably salvage something.
Cannock Chase actually increased the Tory majority despite no first time incumbency. Not only is the gap between Labour and Tory 100 MP's but the size of the majority in what should be classic marginals are huge, in the low immigration, relatively low house price to income ratio towns like Swingdon and Watford you really need a Blair like figure to over turn those majorities. The majority in Watford is 10,000 ffs.
I think the main point was made on the previous thread ( sorry can't remember who).
The splitters would find it very difficult if not impossible to retain their Labour seats if another candidate branded Labour stood against them.
However......
Any MP that has not already declared themselves an apostle of the great messiah is a sitting duck for deselection and will lose their seat anyway whatever they now try to do or say. They are already identified of course as they well know
Truly a damned either way.......no win situation......catch 22.
"Should I stay or should I go?"
So...either lose vs Jezza's Labour, get deslected, or...the third possibility: do nothing and be part of the great Labour wipeout under Jez in 2020.
(Someone said an idea was to ruffle none of Jezza's feathers, sit tight, and hope Lab gets wiped out in 2020 but that their own seat would be spared. Too complicated to be a likely scenario.)
IMO better to split and be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
This would be UKIP dreamland, a split vote between labour brand and ex labour MP. Could they break through with this set up in multiple northern seats?
Joe Watts The Traingate row actually made Corbyn more popular with members https://t.co/0FD4JmuRfN
If that is true, it only serves to show how blinkered his supporters are.
The man and his team got caught out misrepresenting something - and get more support as a result.
No -- as some said at the time of traingate, the wider truth is that trains are over-crowded with standing room only. The stunt was bloody stupid but there are an awful lot of commuters for whom playing sardines is a twice-daily routine, and commuters vote.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc. The tragedy is that they think of themselves as intensely worldly.
I feel genuinely sorry for the Corbynistas like @YBarddCwsc and @bigjohnowls - they're quite right re the Blair years - their Party was hijacked then - and now they're pulling the other way instead.
I've a couple of dozen Corbyn fans I chat with quite regularly and whilst our politics are poles apart - we get on fine most of the time. It's the starry eyed youngsters and aged Trots who go blocking heavy if you dare to tease or politely question a viewpoint.
I am not a Corbynista.
I do think the charge of incompetence against Corbyn is unfair because the Labour Party is not leadable by anyone at the moment. I do think that Corbyn's original mandate should have been respected and he should have been given at least 2 to 3 years before being challenged. I do think that the PLP have been disloyal, and -- if Corbyn is re-elected -- he will have a right to act against some of the people who refuse to accept his mandate.
Brexit seems to have spurred the Labour Right into action, but I can't see how Brexit is Corbyn's fault. Rather more to blame are those Labour MPs (like Johnson and Jarvis) whose seats voted Leave by huge margins.
Of course it's possible that one or more of them might actually be called Dave.
Isn't the difference (and the point) that this has been described as a hate crime?
The report suggests it was an attack motivated by race hate or xenophobia, whereas those parodied on here (that you dislike?) are those attacks by muslims on non muslims that are made to look as if there were no racial/religious motivation
I dislike the 'parodies' for their tedious repetitiveness more than anything else.
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
Seems to be the motivation for the "parodies" is that when a muslim attacks someone, the religious element is played down. Here the xenophobic element is at the forefront of the article, which is more ammo for those whose posts you dislike.
If only these valiant warriors against media oppression were able to put that ammo into something other than the same old, worn out, tiny caliber weapon.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
Apple is taking the pee and the money but the wider issues are: 1) the EU overriding national sovereignty again (cf Brexit) 2) Apple is a big employer in Ireland 3) US is unhappy because it undercuts its own (morally questionable) position that all taxes belong to Washington
Joe Watts The Traingate row actually made Corbyn more popular with members https://t.co/0FD4JmuRfN
If that is true, it only serves to show how blinkered his supporters are.
The man and his team got caught out misrepresenting something - and get more support as a result.
No -- as some said at the time of traingate, the wider truth is that trains are over-crowded with standing room only. The stunt was bloody stupid but there are an awful lot of commuters for whom playing sardines is a twice-daily routine, and commuters vote.
Anyone can come up with problems that people face.
Solving them in way that actually works (rather than just "nationalise it"), is the hard part.
I think the main point was made on the previous thread ( sorry can't remember who).
The splitters would find it very difficult if not impossible to retain their Labour seats if another candidate branded Labour stood against them.
However......
Any MP that has not already declared themselves an apostle of the great messiah is a sitting duck for deselection and will lose their seat anyway whatever they now try to do or say. They are already identified of course as they well know
Truly a damned either way.......no win situation......catch 22.
"Should I stay or should I go?"
So...either lose vs Jezza's Labour, get deslected, or...the third possibility: do nothing and be part of the great Labour wipeout under Jez in 2020.
(Someone said an idea was to ruffle none of Jezza's feathers, sit tight, and hope Lab gets wiped out in 2020 but that their own seat would be spared. Too complicated to be a likely scenario.)
IMO better to split and be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
This would be UKIP dreamland, a split vote between labour brand and ex labour MP. Could they break through with this set up in multiple northern seats?
Much would depend on what flavour of Brexit we get. Theresa has the chance to sweep up a lot of the aspirational WWC and a hardish Brexit will help. A soft one, and a demonstrably soft one yes, I think UKIP does well with a split Lab.
Mr. Herdson, great states often have rotten leaders. Just think of all the dodgy Roman emperors.
It often takes great leaders to build a great state (though quite a few achieve reflected glory of circumstance and there are exceptions to the general rule, Britain perhaps for one), and great states can survive a few poor leaders but they'll be weakened all the same.
But democracy is supposed to offer up something better. Rome's bad leaders tended to come either from a quasi-monarchical lottery or from circumstances that encouraged excessive duplicity and ruthlessness so was never likely to offer up a new golden age.
Since people asked, I'll expand on what and why I think Labour MPs might or might not do.
Do nothing (which might include keeping an eye out for a quango or chair, inertia)
Resign the whip and continue as an independent (and some may have no choice)
Help to form a new party, will this run? The first SDP had some names, who would the new one have? And although there was only one Tory MP, there was fair support at local level.
Join UKIP Join the Greens Take the SNP whip MPs are helped by being part of a group of two or more, there is a precedent for formal acceptance of a whip, and the singletons would be converted into parties in the House of Commons sense
Join the Tories, well at least they would be likely to sit on government benches for the next nine years at least.
Join the Lib Dems. Labour MPs really don't like the Lib Dems, and they would be unlikely to retain a seat after 2020 or earlier.
Joe Watts The Traingate row actually made Corbyn more popular with members https://t.co/0FD4JmuRfN
If that is true, it only serves to show how blinkered his supporters are.
The man and his team got caught out misrepresenting something - and get more support as a result.
No -- as some said at the time of traingate, the wider truth is that trains are over-crowded with standing room only. The stunt was bloody stupid but there are an awful lot of commuters for whom playing sardines is a twice-daily routine, and commuters vote.
Anyone can come up with problems that people face.
Solving them in way that actually works (rather than just "nationalise it"), is the hard part.
EdM suffered from this syndrome to.
What we need is an independent judge led inquiry...
A lot will happen between now and the general election. The best move right now is patient watching and listening.
If Corbyn wins, I would expect Labour MPs to say "You've promised that you will deliver a Labour govt, now deliver it, it's all on you".
The PLP have exhausted every avenue to unseat Corbyn as leader and failed miserably. I doubt we’ll see patients from them but impotence, nor silence, only lamentations.
Only Drudge and The Donald get excited about the LA Tracker .... and former PBers now enjoying an extended period on the naughty step.
Not just LA Times. There are a few that have been moving to Trump with the debates yet to come.
I linked earlier to an article in "The Hill" showing a tightening in the national polls. Clinton now about +5-6. The LA tracker is the significant outlier. IMO they got their sample wrong and their results reflect that.
As I've always indicated since 2008 the national polls provide the mood music but it is reliable swing state polls that are the full orchestra. Trump has no traction here. He is behind in all the states that matter and in some - Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia and Colorado by significant margins.
The debates may change the narrative for Trump or reinforce and increase the Clinton lead.
Trump is the most disliked presidential nominee ever. ( Hillary being the second most of course). This is based on him being reckless, thoughtless and obnoxious. I can't see him being anything other than these things in the debate. I imagine he will say something outrageously stupid and/or racist as well just to really hammer home to ethnic minorities and women as to what a racist misogynist he is.
Apple are genius at marketing....selling inferior tech at high prices, because it is in a shiny case.
You can buy a far superior laptop for half the money. Apple's top of the range, no M.2 drive, no Nvidia graphics cards (so no CUDA programming), etc etc etc.
One problem the splitters have is that while they correctly identify that Corbynite Labour is a pretty narrow, overwhelmingly middle-class view of what Labour should look like, that is also true of much of non-Corbynite Labour. While the Tristram Hunt (for example) view of Labour is a perfectly valid product to offer, its appeal to potential Labour voters is not massively greater than that put forward by Jeremy Corbyn. Labour are split into two antipathetic middle-class sects relying on working-class votes. I’m not trying to say politics should necessarily be divided along class lines, nor that views typified by either Jeremy Corbyn or Tristram Hunt should go unrepresented. But it seems to me that the body of opinion within the PLP that was previously mainstream and was typified by the likes of Harold Wilson and James Callaghan (and John Cruddas?), which is possibly closer to the majority of Labour voters, has vanished.
Apple are genius at marketing....selling inferior tech at high prices, because it is in a shiny case.
You can buy a far superior laptop for half the money. Apple's top of the range, no M.2, no Nvidia graphics cards (so no CUDA programming), etc etc etc.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Mr. Herdson, it's a great historical irony that the Golden Age of Imperial Rome came about because the Praetorian Guard forced Nerva to abandon his choice of successor and instead pick Trajan.
Apple are genius at marketing....selling inferior tech at high prices, because it is in a shiny case.
You can buy a far superior laptop for half the money. Apple's top of the range, no M.2, no Nvidia graphics cards (so no CUDA programming), etc etc etc.
half is pushing it. 3/4 to equal more like.
3/4 the price is probably fairly. My current laptop I got for I think for £1.2k and is more powerful etc etc etc than top of range macbook pro which costs ~£2k.
Of course it's possible that one or more of them might actually be called Dave.
Isn't the difference (and the point) that this has been described as a hate crime?
The report suggests it was an attack motivated by race hate or xenophobia, whereas those parodied on here (that you dislike?) are those attacks by muslims on non muslims that are made to look as if there were no racial/religious motivation
I dislike the 'parodies' for their tedious repetitiveness more than anything else.
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
Seems to be the motivation for the "parodies" is that when a muslim attacks someone, the religious element is played down. Here the xenophobic element is at the forefront of the article, which is more ammo for those whose posts you dislike.
If only these valiant warriors against media oppression were able to put that ammo into something other than the same old, worn out, tiny caliber weapon.
If people stopped making the same point time and time again on their particular hobby horse? This site would have no comments
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
Hillary is a crap product using almost any yardstick. Trump offers something different - it's hopey-changy, but with a hard edge of jobs jobs jobs.
His pitch to black voters is something I'm watching closely. It's such an intriguing angle/third rail stuff.
Hillary has the electoral appeal of Cherie Blair. At best.
Great analogy. Interesting challenge from Trump re full medical records too. I thought the Hillary health thing was all stuff and nonsense - I'm beginning to wonder now.
I suspect Hillary has traumatically damaged her pituitary gland and now has hypopituitarism. She's in no shape to be President.
Hillary is a crap product using almost any yardstick. Trump offers something different - it's hopey-changy, but with a hard edge of jobs jobs jobs.
His pitch to black voters is something I'm watching closely. It's such an intriguing angle/third rail stuff.
You mean how low Trump may go with black voters with the latest PPP showing the Donald with a 97% disapproval rate (3% undecided) and being seen as less acceptable than the plague ....
Trump's major problem with black voters is that he is a racist.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Apple is more of cult (like Corbyn), it can do no wrong for those in love with it.
For me I use Apple when it is better (iPad), and Samsung when it is better (mobile).
The EU is doing it's job, as expected. But Britain is better off outside of that.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
Mr. Borough, multi-lateral agreements don't need regional power blocs. Also, the EU seeks ever closer integration, not just to tackle tech firms' taxes. Lastly, the EU's attempt to whack Amazon crushed micro-businesses and didn't exactly endear them to small firms, thanks to their cack-handed, ineptly drafted legislation on VAT.
The soft left won't split because they're still well placed to inherit once Corbyn goes. And the Blairites won't split without the soft left because electoral pragmatism is part of the creed and they know they'd get slaughtered alone.
If Corbyn pushes through rule changes to cement the resolution then they'll need to split, but the time isn't now. Though we might get a few resignations of the whip from people without aspirations for power.
Trump may surprise in the debates. However his debating history and personality seems to tend to your view. Will he be able in a one on one for 2 hours on 3 occasions hold it all together? Probably not.
On the race. Trump has to effect a game changer. If we allocate to Trump all the close swing states he is presently competitive but losing - Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa and Nevada, he loses 273/265. He has to flip a state where he is polling badly - Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, New Jersey or New Mexico to win or New Hampshire to tie, if he can hold NE CD2.
It's not looking pretty for The Donald as it stands.
Miss DiCanio, imagine an election here contested by Cherie Blair and Nigel Farage.
How we'd laugh!
If Nigel led the Tories against Cherie for Labour, he would win quite easily I think. But I don't think you can even compare Nigel to Donald. Donald is reprehensible.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
woman on the radio this morning spoke as though it was a foregone conclusion that the bill would be reduced. Not sure whether that was because other EU countries will put their bids in, reducing the amount due to Ireland, or because it just would be reduced.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Apple is more of cult (like Corbyn), it can do no wrong for those in love with it.
For me I use Apple when it is better (iPad), and Samsung when it is better (mobile).
The EU is doing it's job, as expected. But Britain is better off outside of that.
Please, I refused to get the early iPhones because they lacked 3G and copy and paste functions.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
woman on the radio this morning spoke as though it was a foregone conclusion that the bill would be reduced. Not sure whether that was because other EU countries will put their bids in, reducing the amount due to Ireland, or because it just would be reduced.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
if I was Apple and their counsl, I'd be hammering home the message, 'The Irish Government says we don't owe this tax'
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
woman on the radio this morning spoke as though it was a foregone conclusion that the bill would be reduced. Not sure whether that was because other EU countries will put their bids in, reducing the amount due to Ireland, or because it just would be reduced.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
if I was Apple and their counsl, I'd be hammering home the message, 'The Irish Government says we don't owe this tax'
Since the Irish Government is (effectively) co-accused, I'm not sure that will help Apple.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
If it was legal and legitimate, it wouldn't just have been ruled against. Admittedly, that's more Ireland's fault than Apple's but there are financial practices in various territories across the world that might be legal locally but that doesn't make them right.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
woman on the radio this morning spoke as though it was a foregone conclusion that the bill would be reduced. Not sure whether that was because other EU countries will put their bids in, reducing the amount due to Ireland, or because it just would be reduced.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
if I was Apple and their counsl, I'd be hammering home the message, 'The Irish Government says we don't owe this tax'
The Irish government refusing € 13 billion in back taxes. There used to be jokes based on that kind of behaviour.
Be interesting to see how the no headphone jack iPhone is going to go down.
Apple like to be first to ditch what they consider to be old tech. Wires to your headphones that get tangled all the time? That is so last year darling. There will be major grumbling and then everyone will copy.
Joe Watts The Traingate row actually made Corbyn more popular with members https://t.co/0FD4JmuRfN
The media attacking him makes them feel like they are heroic defenders against the establishment. That he was at best spinning a story to manipulate the media and the public (even if with the best of intentions on a worthy point) and at worst just flat out lying, is irrelevant. He was attacked by the media and a rich person, that he deliberately span an untruth is neither here nor there.
I think the main point was made on the previous thread ( sorry can't remember who).
The splitters would find it very difficult if not impossible to retain their Labour seats if another candidate branded Labour stood against them.
However......
Any MP that has not already declared themselves an apostle of the great messiah is a sitting duck for deselection and will lose their seat anyway whatever they now try to do or say. They are already identified of course as they well know
Truly a damned either way.......no win situation......catch 22.
"Should I stay or should I go?"
So...either lose vs Jezza's Labour, get deslected, or...the third possibility: do nothing and be part of the great Labour wipeout under Jez in 2020.
(Someone said an idea was to ruffle none of Jezza's feathers, sit tight, and hope Lab gets wiped out in 2020 but that their own seat would be spared. Too complicated to be a likely scenario.)
IMO better to split and be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
I think that a reason that a split is more likely than not to happen is that it needs only a relatively small number of Labour MPs to initiate it, before the rest are faced with the absolute choice that requires them to get off the fence. You could have made exactly the same arguments as why it would have been better to give Corbyn more rope to hang himself with and wait until after serious local election losses in May 2017 or 2018 before acting. It took though only a small group around Hilary Benn to act, and then the rest felt obliged to either follow suit or to declare themselves for Corbyn.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I love AV and 80s pop music.
With regret, I have to say it is Apple fanboys who are the problem more than Apple (though their stuff is too expensive and take the piss when it comes to tax but still want to be seen as hip and cool).
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
If it was legal and legitimate, it wouldn't just have been ruled against. Admittedly, that's more Ireland's fault than Apple's but there are financial practices in various territories across the world that might be legal locally but that doesn't make them right.
Be interesting to see how the no headphone jack iPhone is going to go down.
Less popular than when they moved over to the lightning connector and rendering my very expensive speaker system redundant.
Maplins is your friend, here.
It's ok, I have wireless headphones already.
just goes to show how age changes things..several years ago I thought that the only two shops you needed were The North Face and Timberland. Today it's Maplins and Wilkos.
"Not included in the manifesto document is Jeremy’s Volunteer Toolkit – a website set up for his supporters “to help make Jeremy Corbyn the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.
Among the ridiculous links available are Jeremoji, where people can make Corbyn and Labour Party emojis, and Jerememe Corbyn, where people can submit their own Corbyn memes."
What strikes me about Corbyn supporters is their insularity. If they think he's got a chance of winning a general election it's clear they've never visited most of the country, and are only familiar with places like London, Brighton, Bristol, Manchester, Liverpool, etc. The tragedy is that they think of themselves as intensely worldly.
I feel genuinely sorry for the Corbynistas like @YBarddCwsc and @bigjohnowls - they're quite right re the Blair years - their Party was hijacked then - and now they're pulling the other way instead.
I've a couple of dozen Corbyn fans I chat with quite regularly and whilst our politics are poles apart - we get on fine most of the time. It's the starry eyed youngsters and aged Trots who go blocking heavy if you dare to tease or politely question a viewpoint.
I am not a Corbynista.
I do think the charge of incompetence against Corbyn is unfair because the Labour Party is not leadable by anyone at the moment. I do think that Corbyn's original mandate should have been respected and he should have been given at least 2 to 3 years before being challenged. I do think that the PLP have been disloyal, and -- if Corbyn is re-elected -- he will have a right to act against some of the people who refuse to accept his mandate.
Brexit seems to have spurred the Labour Right into action, but I can't see how Brexit is Corbyn's fault. Rather more to blame are those Labour MPs (like Johnson and Jarvis) whose seats voted Leave by huge margins.
I think they saw Brexit as an opportunity because the membership is very pro-EU but Corbyn is not, if they could tie his lukewarm campaigning for it to the failure of Remain it was a chance to get the membership to wake up.
Unfortunately the message seems to be 'Corbyn is crap and cannot convince anyone but his core support of anything - if only he had tried harder many more would have voted Remain and we'd have won' which would seem to suggest they don't think he is as crap as they say.
Hillary is a crap product using almost any yardstick. Trump offers something different - it's hopey-changy, but with a hard edge of jobs jobs jobs.
His pitch to black voters is something I'm watching closely. It's such an intriguing angle/third rail stuff.
You mean how low Trump may go with black voters with the latest PPP showing the Donald with a 97% disapproval rate (3% undecided) and being seen as less acceptable than the plague ....
Trump's major problem with black voters is that he is a racist.
His major problem with women is that he is a misogynist who has hired a man who runs an anti woman website to run his campaign, and takes advice from what looks like a serial sexual harasser in Ailes.
Trump is offering Pre-War Italy style fascism, which is certainly something different.
Joe Watts The Traingate row actually made Corbyn more popular with members https://t.co/0FD4JmuRfN
The media attacking him makes them feel like they are heroic defenders against the establishment. That he was at best spinning a story to manipulate the media and the public (even if with the best of intentions on a worthy point) and at worst just flat out lying, is irrelevant. He was attacked by the media and a rich person, that he deliberately span an untruth is neither here nor there.
Dog bites man. Corbyn cultists feel he can do no wrong and side with him when it is him vs Virgin.
Apple can do one as far as I'm concerned, and I'm no fan of the commission.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
I cannot understand this hatred for Apple.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I loved AV and 80s pop music.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
If it was legal and legitimate, it wouldn't just have been ruled against. Admittedly, that's more Ireland's fault than Apple's but there are financial practices in various territories across the world that might be legal locally but that doesn't make them right.
The law is a very flexible beast when necessary. What is a judgement today might not be the same judgement tomorrow. They are, at the end of the day, just opinions and every law is open to interpretation.
And remember that it wasn't a court who handed down this decision - it was the Commission. Which is an entirely political body. The courts have yet to rule on this.
Trump may surprise in the debates. However his debating history and personality seems to tend to your view. Will he be able in a one on one for 2 hours on 3 occasions hold it all together? Probably not.
On the race. Trump has to effect a game changer. If we allocate to Trump all the close swing states he is presently competitive but losing - Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa and Nevada, he loses 273/265. He has to flip a state where he is polling badly - Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, New Jersey or New Mexico to win or New Hampshire to tie, if he can hold NE CD2.
It's not looking pretty for The Donald as it stands.
Be interesting to see how the no headphone jack iPhone is going to go down.
Less popular than when they moved over to the lightning connector and rendering my very expensive speaker system redundant.
Maplins is your friend, here.
It's ok, I have wireless headphones already.
just goes to show how age changes things..several years ago I thought that the only two shops you needed were The North Face and Timberland. Today it's Maplins and Wilkos.
Maplins is the "I don't want to wait for an online purchase to arrive, but still need this part" shop. I do like Wilko however, it is great value on lots of stuff.
Anyway, let's take the classic example of my own seat - Cannock. Around 100,000 inhabitants, 90% urban, ex-coal mining, public sector employment at roughly 10% at a guess, the rest in skilled/semi skilled light industry or retail. One or two wealthy pockets but mostly quite poor. House prices are low and so is immigration. Has voted Labour 1945-70 and again 1992-2010 (possibly with one other spell in between).
The workers are simply not interested in Corbyn. They even dislike him. They actually expressed interest in Miliband, but they were turned off in the election by the fact that the Labour candidate was a certifiable lunatic who thought the way to win an election in Mid-Staffordshire was to campaign on Labour's record on the NHS.
With rare exceptions the public sector are increasingly embarrassed by Corbyn's antics, and study their coffee mugs when people talk about him. He sometimes makes good points, they mumble, but...
Which leaves the prospect that Labour will come third if UKIP pick the candidate who spent half his time railing against the iniquities of the EU and half his time fighting to save the disabled children's playground.
Now Cannock is typical of many seats in the WM or even the north. It is the type of seat that Labour have got to win to take power, and challenge in to remain relevant. But here, Corbyn's leadership is causing them to disintegrate.
We've established Labour are writing off the south despite there being many winnable seats there. They are losing ground in the Midlands. If they are struggling in Cannock, I have no doubt they will struggle in the semi-rural north. Which raises the question - where and what can they win under Corbyn?
And that is why, whatever Smith's faults and inadequacies, it is desperately important that he should win, even if he then has to resign later in favour of someone better.
And to add to that - therefore this time there is a merit in a split. Because it could hardly make things worse but it might just conceivably salvage something.
Cannock has been trending Tory for decades. Under different boundaries it produced the biggest pro Tory swing in 1970 when Jennie Lee was ousted.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
.
They used the tax system as it was designed. You Android fanboys are going all Occupy Wall Street/Momentum over Apple's taxes.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how many raging against Apple following last night's lead on the news, also voted Brexit. As Remainers have pointed out, regional economic power blocs like the EU can take on big corporates and tax issues. Individual nations won't or can't.
I'm looking forward the appeal if the Irish Government appeal and Apple's appeal. I suspect Apple won't be paying out.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
woman on the radio this morning spoke as though it was a foregone conclusion that the bill would be reduced. Not sure whether that was because other EU countries will put their bids in, reducing the amount due to Ireland, or because it just would be reduced.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
if I was Apple and their counsl, I'd be hammering home the message, 'The Irish Government says we don't owe this tax'
Since the Irish Government is (effectively) co-accused, I'm not sure that will help Apple.
Agreed. This is effectively a State Aid issue. Strange that they started with Eire rather than all those businesses supposedly based in Luxembourg though, isn't it?
Comments
In any case isn't the implication of these parodies usually that these attacks are terrorism inspired and planned by religious ideology, i.e. the world wide Caliphate is out to get YOU?
As a Labour Remainer, Kinnock couldn't even get his own seat to vote Remain (although nor could Owen Smith or Dan Jarvis).
I rely on PB and a dozen or so US tweeters for info.
Mr. Divvie, I'd like to stop mentioning the stabbings. And if the media actually reported them, I would.
The man and his team got caught out misrepresenting something - and get more support as a result.
One of them did admit that she wouldn't actually want to live under a Corbyn regime.
Go figure that one...
*Looks at Corbyn*. *Coughs politely*
As I've always indicated since 2008 the national polls provide the mood music but it is reliable swing state polls that are the full orchestra. Trump has no traction here. He is behind in all the states that matter and in some - Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia and Colorado by significant margins.
The debates may change the narrative for Trump or reinforce and increase the Clinton lead.
I've a couple of dozen Corbyn fans I chat with quite regularly and whilst our politics are poles apart - we get on fine most of the time. It's the starry eyed youngsters and aged Trots who go blocking heavy if you dare to tease or politely question a viewpoint.
(Someone said an idea was to ruffle none of Jezza's feathers, sit tight, and hope Lab gets wiped out in 2020 but that their own seat would be spared. Too complicated to be a likely scenario.)
IMO better to split and be hung for a sheep as a lamb.
Apple has been taking the P for a long time, I doubt they will find many friends outside their fanbase.
If there was any real chance that Corbyn might actually win, a number of his supporters may decline to vote.
The figures from YouGov are remarkable on a number of levels. They represent as fundamental a revolution within Labour as the emergence of Thatcherism was for the Conservatives in the 1970s.
Thatcher won in 1975 on the back of an anti-Heath vote - Corbyn won in 2015 on the back of an anti-Blair and anti-Brown vote. It was the manifestation of discontent with the established order within the party and the desire for a new direction.
That Corbyn speaks to and for some people is undeniable. Personally, I find him a likeable and engaging soul. He talks about issues - housing, the NHS and public services - that concern people and should be discussed and debated widely and fully. Does he have the answers ? No. Is he right to ask the questions ? Yes.
The fact the Conservatives will be obsessing on Brexit for most of the next two or three years doesn't alter the fact there are big issues beyond Europe that need time and consideration as well.
Yet Labour, it seems, won't be talking about those either.
I've been a paid up member of a political party most of my adult life - you accept changes in policy and leader as part and parcel of progress. Everyone has their "red lines" however beyond which "my party right or wrong" no longer works. Conservatives who just a few months ago were passionate adherents of Cameron and Osborne now dance on their political graves and pay homage to May and Hammond.
As someone once said, it's a funny old world...
However Trump has the electoral appeal of Cherie Blair with smallpox and that is the race in a petri dish.
The majority in Watford is 10,000 ffs.
If Corbyn wins, I would expect Labour MPs to say "You've promised that you will deliver a Labour govt, now deliver it, it's all on you".
And be fair. It's not like I've organised a mob to chant for the sacking of the BBC's political editor
Mr. Jonathan, I fear that would be cowardice masquerading as masterly inactivity.
There have been three important apples that have changed the course of human history
1) The apple Eve persuaded Adam to eat
2) The apple that landed on Sir Issac Newton's head
3) The Apple Steve Jobs helped to create.
This thread was composed on a Macbook, the previous two were composed on an iPhone, and the one before that on an iPad.
Apple is awesome, I love it more than I love AV and 80s pop music.
I do think the charge of incompetence against Corbyn is unfair because the Labour Party is not leadable by anyone at the moment. I do think that Corbyn's original mandate should have been respected and he should have been given at least 2 to 3 years before being challenged. I do think that the PLP have been disloyal, and -- if Corbyn is re-elected -- he will have a right to act against some of the people who refuse to accept his mandate.
Brexit seems to have spurred the Labour Right into action, but I can't see how Brexit is Corbyn's fault. Rather more to blame are those Labour MPs (like Johnson and Jarvis) whose seats voted Leave by huge margins.
1) the EU overriding national sovereignty again (cf Brexit)
2) Apple is a big employer in Ireland
3) US is unhappy because it undercuts its own (morally questionable) position that all taxes belong to Washington
Anyone can come up with problems that people face.
Solving them in way that actually works (rather than just "nationalise it"), is the hard part.
EdM suffered from this syndrome to.
But democracy is supposed to offer up something better. Rome's bad leaders tended to come either from a quasi-monarchical lottery or from circumstances that encouraged excessive duplicity and ruthlessness so was never likely to offer up a new golden age.
Do nothing (which might include keeping an eye out for a quango or chair, inertia)
Resign the whip and continue as an independent (and some may have no choice)
Help to form a new party, will this run? The first SDP had some names, who would the new one have? And although there was only one Tory MP, there was fair support at local level.
Join UKIP
Join the Greens
Take the SNP whip
MPs are helped by being part of a group of two or more, there is a precedent for formal acceptance of a whip, and the singletons would be converted into parties in the House of Commons sense
Join the Tories, well at least they would be likely to sit on government benches for the next nine years at least.
Join the Lib Dems. Labour MPs really don't like the Lib Dems, and they would be unlikely to retain a seat after 2020 or earlier.
You've rather made my point for me !
But I don't hate Apple. I used to have an iPhone, but prefer Samsung now. I still use my iPad, it's very good.
Their tax games are still reprehensible though.
I've never suffered the blue screen of death many of my friends used to complain about with windows machines.
edit: LOL - there's one amended typo you won't thank your iPhone for!!
You can buy a far superior laptop for half the money. Apple's top of the range, no M.2 drive, no Nvidia graphics cards (so no CUDA programming), etc etc etc.
I’m not trying to say politics should necessarily be divided along class lines, nor that views typified by either Jeremy Corbyn or Tristram Hunt should go unrepresented. But it seems to me that the body of opinion within the PLP that was previously mainstream and was typified by the likes of Harold Wilson and James Callaghan (and John Cruddas?), which is possibly closer to the majority of Labour voters, has vanished.
It was legal, it was legitimate. Just think, you're agreeing with the hated EU, the one you regularly rail against, simply because you don't like apple.
Apple is more of cult (like Corbyn), it can do no wrong for those in love with it.
For me I use Apple when it is better (iPad), and Samsung when it is better (mobile).
The EU is doing it's job, as expected. But Britain is better off outside of that.
It'll enrich the legal profession and accountants.
If Corbyn pushes through rule changes to cement the resolution then they'll need to split, but the time isn't now. Though we might get a few resignations of the whip from people without aspirations for power.
Dover mayor Neil Rix says he won't quit after footage emerges of him snorting a substance in a toilet. He said: "It could have been sherbet"
Trump may surprise in the debates. However his debating history and personality seems to tend to your view. Will he be able in a one on one for 2 hours on 3 occasions hold it all together? Probably not.
On the race. Trump has to effect a game changer. If we allocate to Trump all the close swing states he is presently competitive but losing - Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa and Nevada, he loses 273/265. He has to flip a state where he is polling badly - Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, New Jersey or New Mexico to win or New Hampshire to tie, if he can hold NE CD2.
It's not looking pretty for The Donald as it stands.
http://www.270towin.com/maps/xog8N
But I don't think you can even compare Nigel to Donald. Donald is reprehensible.
If it is deemed by the appeal court as a sweetheart deal I can't see what reason there would be to reduce the amount due. Where's @MaxPB?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/30/history-shows-that-huge-political-parties-can-die-why-should-lab/
Since the Irish Government is (effectively) co-accused, I'm not sure that will help Apple.
Unfortunately the message seems to be 'Corbyn is crap and cannot convince anyone but his core support of anything - if only he had tried harder many more would have voted Remain and we'd have won' which would seem to suggest they don't think he is as crap as they say.
Trump is offering Pre-War Italy style fascism, which is certainly something different.
And remember that it wasn't a court who handed down this decision - it was the Commission. Which is an entirely political body. The courts have yet to rule on this.
Preibus said that Trump would be in the lead by next Monday. Lets see if that happens!
Good article on why going to mexico is a stupid idea by Trump
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/can-trump-be-this-stupid-not-a-trick-question