The EU helped fan the flames of an already precarious situation.
I would agree with that.
Foreign policy is one of the reasons why Hillary might actually be more disastrous than Donald.
(Both would of course be disasters, it is simply a matter of risk assessment now).
The US has already done a huge amount of damage with its wars in the Middle East (the repercussions of which have almost wholly affected Europe rather than the US).
Hillary could easily blow up the Ukraine. With even more disastrous consequences for Europe.
We could be living in a year like 1913.
It was the Rupublicans who with great gusto set the Middle East alight, it was the Democrats who tried to tidy up their mess.
I think Trumps isolationism risks America leaving a major power vacuum in the world, in East Asia, MENA and also East Europe.
If we cared about EU policy towards Ukraine and wanted to have a say in it, then we should have voted Remain. Having walked away from the EU we have no right to try to determine EU policy concerning Ukraine. The Baltics and Poland are different as members of NATO, unless we walk away from that organisation too.
By bombing a pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum? One owned by a UK listed company? Bill Clinton: that great GOP hero.
Are you suggesting that was comparable to Bush and Blair invading Iraq?
The Muslim Brotherhood was a product of British rule in Egypt if you want to go back further!
No. But Obama has made plenty of missteps ascwell. Reversing the surge. Running away from Iraq prematurely. Faffing around in Libya. No red lines in Syria.
Both sides have been useless - personally I think tolerating the use of chemical weapons is the worst strategic mistake of the lot
I would go for the Reagan/Thatcher funding and training of the Mujahadin myself. That is what converted a political Islamist philosophy into armed Jihad, with the ultimate blowback from Bin Laden.
Wasn’t that originally orchestrated by a Texan fundamentalist millionaire?
A classic shoot the messenger strategy by the Electoral Commission.
Err no - why couldn't the journalist have pointed out the security problem to the EC? IMHO he deserves everything he gets - hopefully he'll lose his job (but with the BBC generally being on Remain he can always get a new one with the BBC)
The things Remainers tried to do to influence the result.
I hesitate to disagree with a learned historian, but I have to, I think, on this occasion. German soldiers in the Normandy campaign (and previously in North Africa and Italy) behaved, on the whole, correctly towards their armed, uniformed, opponents fighting in accordance with the rules of war. Yes there were exceptions, and there were exceptions on our side too (e.g. I can point you to incident where a unit of the Black Watch took off their steel helmets and replaced them with their hackled bonnets, a symbol that no prisoners would be taken, before going into an attack - none were).
On the subject of gas masks, if one looks at the photos of troops in action in the Normandy Campaign and beyond I think you'll find very little evidence that they were still even being carried. I have just scanned the photographs in a book covering the fight for hill 112 and the only one which shows a gas mask (at any rate a gas mask case, who knows what was in it) was one of a Hitler Jugend anti-tank team and only one of the soldiers displayed is carrying one.
The same can be seen of pictures in the UK. In 1939/40 almost everyone was carrying a gas mask. By 1944/45 almost nobody is.
You're correct that few soldiers carried gas masks and I realise I could have phrased that better. Most soldiers still had access to gas masks, and more importantly, the Germans thought they had instant access to them, because after the arrest of Canaris their intelligence bureau was worse than useless.
With regard to the question of atrocities, my point was again that in the western areas generally the Germans ignored the rules of war when it suited them, and tended to observe them only when they didn't get in the way. The Nazi high command had no respect for them whatsoever in any theatre - Hitler personally ordered all special forces soldiers that were captured should be shot. In practice this order wasn't always enforced, as for example when after Arnhem more than 2000 prisoners were taken and only a fairly small number were shot, mostly for escape attempts.
To expand your point a little, it was in the interests of the Wehrmacht themselves to observe the rules as they were likely to be taken prisoner and would want that specified treatment for themselves. However, the rules of war apply to everyone in the theatre and very often the Germans broke them - sometimes, as in the case of Oradour, for no obvious reason.
It would have been worse had the local commanders not ignored certain orders to e.g. burn Paris to the ground and kill all the men.
IIRC Oradour was vcarried out by an Alsatian unit .... a unit from Alsace-Lorraine ....... consisting of men conscripted into the Wehrmacht?
Agree with your second part, not the first. Massacres of non-combatants and troublesome prisoners by German soldiers were more or less routine in France in 1944, which strongly suggests the Germans had other reasons for not using banned weapons.
I think the fact that most Allied soldiers had gas masks probably also played a part, although there are very real doubts about how useful they would have been in practice.
My understanding was that in WWII the Germans were pretty good in general in abiding by the Rules of War as they existed and applied at that time. So European, Commonwealth and US troops were mostly treated in accordance with the 1929 Geneva Conventions (notable exceptions such as Malmedy exist) and CBW were not used in compliance with the 1925 Geneva Protocol. I don't have proof, but my suspicion is that most exceptions probably involved either the SS or very young troops, rather than the more professional Wehrmacht.
This snippet from the wiki entry on Malmedy confirms that Allied soldiers also breached the Convention in retaliation and stories of SS or Gestapo personnel being summarily executed in the last days of the war were rife:
"The inspector general of the First Army learned of the shootings about three or four hours later. By late evening of the 17th, rumours that the enemy was killing prisoners had reached the forward American divisions. One US unit issued orders that "No SS troops or paratroopers will be taken prisoner but will be shot on sight.""
This overall picture of Axis and Allied compliance with the Rules of War in the Western Theatre contrasted starkly with German treatment of Russian prisoners (not a party to the Geneva Convention) and with Japanese (not a party) treatment of prisoners.
Treatment of civilians in war torn areas by occupying troops was codified after the war in the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
Just to add to the “we’ve won more medals than you” bragging table someone on WalesOnline has worked out that per head of population Wales has won more medals per head of population than anyone except New Zealand. Scotland, Malc, is 5th. China, Russia and the US are the bottom three. Yorkshire’s not been incuded in the table.
Just to add to the “we’ve won more medals than you” bragging table someone on WalesOnline has worked out that per head of population Wales has won more medals per head of population than anyone except New Zealand. Scotland, Malc, is 5th. China, Russia and the US are the bottom three. Yorkshire’s not been incuded in the table.
Presumably neither has the top of the table, Maryland.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Them and the Cossacks, who were handed over in 1945 with their families and all shot, including children, less than two hours later. Not one of the finer moments in the annals of the British army.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Also worth reading Hitler's Willing Executioners (poorly written but well researched) to get a sense of who was involved in the Eastern Front massacres.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Them and the Cossacks, who were handed over in 1945 with their families and all shot, including children, less than two hours later. Not one of the finer moments in the annals of the British army.
I think you will find that decision to hand over the Cossack PoWs was taken by politicians not soldiers.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Isn't it true though that large numbers of every nationality in German occupied territory in the east (from Latvians through to Russians, and including both communists and anti-communists) were co-opted and participated in the Holocaust, almost irrespective of their pre war politics ? Timothy Snyder's 'Black Earth' is particularly good is dissecting the history and mechanics of the Holocaust (and not to be undertaken lightly).
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
Clearly the Team GB funding model needs to be more ruthless.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
Just to add to the “we’ve won more medals than you” bragging table someone on WalesOnline has worked out that per head of population Wales has won more medals per head of population than anyone except New Zealand. Scotland, Malc, is 5th. China, Russia and the US are the bottom three. Yorkshire’s not been incuded in the table.
Presumably neither has the top of the table, Maryland.
I saw in the Manchester Evening News today that if Manchester was a country it would be fourth in the medal table. Although in typical MEN lazy journalism style, it hadn't subtracted Manchester's medals from those of GB&NI, so it would actually be third. It was also stretching the definition of 'Manchester' rather generously, and basically including the whole of the cycling team as 'Manchester-based' (though to be fair, most of them do genuinely live somewhere close to Manchester).
Anyway, I think if we're going to go for per-head-of-population battles then Greater Manchester defeinitley beats Wales. Jason Kenny and Laura Trott's house does evcen better - if that was a country, it would come in at about 12th in the medal table with a population of 2.
My understanding was that in WWII the Germans were pretty good in general in abiding by the Rules of War as they existed and applied at that time. So European, Commonwealth and US troops were mostly treated in accordance with the 1929 Geneva Conventions (notable exceptions such as Malmedy exist) and CBW were not used in compliance with the 1925 Geneva Protocol. I don't have proof, but my suspicion is that most exceptions probably involved either the SS or very young troops, rather than the more professional Wehrmacht.
Again, something I was more than a bit surprised by was how willing the Wehrmacht and even the police were to take part in atrocities, although that was mostly the Eastern not the Western Front.
A very good point about Allied war crimes. One of the things that makes me uneasy about Nuremberg is that no Allied soldier was ever tried. Anecdotally, I know of prisoners being shot out of hand or surrenders not being accepted (Mr Llama's one about the Black Watch is one I didn't know of but find credible). Historically, we all know about Katyn and the mass rapes performed by the Red Army. But nobody was ever even tried for that. So instead of a bunch of criminals getting their richly deserved penalties, it has always looked like a bunch of losers being victimised, and admirers of the system (Airey Neave in particular) always seem a little disingenuous on this point.
As for being forced to fight, I am irresistibly reminded of the late great Mandy Rhys-Davies - 'well, they would say that, wouldn't they?'
I think that is more than a little bit of the comfort and safety of hindsight speaking. The Germans conscripted from 'German peoples' in other countries, such as Belgium, Alsace, Hungary. Some were willing, many others were not.
But it is fascinating that some of the worst offenders were not Germans or Japanese, but their minions. The Korean guards in the Japanese PoW camps were often the worst.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Also worth reading Hitler's Willing Executioners (poorly written but well researched) to get a sense of who was involved in the Eastern Front massacres.
Quite so, Mr. T. What I have long struggled to understand is the German army in WW2, the Heer, behaving on the whole, correctly when fighting against the Brits and the Yanks but behaved so abominably on the Eastern Front.
The myth that the massacres and ill-treatment of locals there was down solely to the SS is amply documented, as Beevor in his Book "Stalingrad" makes plain. The Heer and some of its supposedly honourable generals, such as Von Manstein, were utterly complicit in the mass murders and other crimes that took place.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
Clearly the Team GB funding model needs to be more ruthless.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
As for being forced to fight, I am irresistibly reminded of the late great Mandy Rhys-Davies - 'well, they would say that, wouldn't they?'
I think that is more than a little bit of the comfort and safety of hindsight speaking. The Germans conscripted from 'German peoples' in other countries, such as Belgium, Alsace, Hungary. Some were willing, many others were not.
But it is fascinating that some of the worst offenders were not Germans or Japanese, but their minions. The Korean guards in the Japanese PoW camps were often the worst.
Several of the concentration camp guards tried by Israelis have been Lithunaians, have they not?
My understanding was that in WWII the Germans were pretty good in general in abiding by the Rules of War as they existed and applied at that time. So European, Commonwealth and US troops were mostly treated in accordance with the 1929 Geneva Conventions (notable exceptions such as Malmedy exist) and CBW were not used in compliance with the 1925 Geneva Protocol. I don't have proof, but my suspicion is that most exceptions probably involved either the SS or very young troops, rather than the more professional Wehrmacht.
Again, something I was more than a bit surprised by was how willing the Wehrmacht and even the police were to take part in atrocities, although that was mostly the Eastern not the Western Front.
A very good point about Allied war crimes. One of the things that makes me uneasy about Nuremberg is that no Allied soldier was ever tried. Anecdotally, I know of prisoners being shot out of hand or surrenders not being accepted (Mr Llama's one about the Black Watch is one I didn't know of but find credible). Historically, we all know about Katyn and the mass rapes performed by the Red Army. But nobody was ever even tried for that. So instead of a bunch of criminals getting their richly deserved penalties, it has always looked like a bunch of losers being victimised, and admirers of the system (Airey Neave in particular) always seem a little disingenuous on this point.
I am not sure what you mean by 'admirers of the scheme'. If you are talking about the Rules of War in general, I am an admirer. I think the proof of WWII is strongly that where there was a legal commitment to the Rules, they were overwhelmingly respected (German infractions on the Eastern Front, Katyn and Red Army rapes cannot be included, as the USSR was not party to the Conventions).
And the response of that US unit to Malmedy (and of the Russian Army to German brutality to its PoWs in 1941 - the majority of whom did not survive a year in captivity) shows why, from a military perspective, abiding by the rules works. You do not want to force your enemy into a 'no surrender, take no prisoners' mindset.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Them and the Cossacks, who were handed over in 1945 with their families and all shot, including children, less than two hours later. Not one of the finer moments in the annals of the British army.
I think you will find that decision to hand over the Cossack PoWs was taken by politicians not soldiers.
The senior soldiers involved were Harold Macmillan, MP for Stockton, and Austin 'Toby' Low, candidate for Blackpool North. The order came I think from Eisenhower, although it may have come from Roosevelt's earlier deal with Stalin. Both protested angrily to Churchill but when the order was confirmed, obeyed it even though they could in theory have resigned in protest.
Of course, how realistic such an option would have been is another matter. Curragh in 1913 showed the limits of what soldiers could and could not do even in peacetime.
What bothers me about it frankly is not the men - if you fight for another country, especially Nazi Germany, then you should know the risks - but the families.
Incidentally I haven't forgotten we are supposed to be meeting for lunch but I've been very tied up for the last fortnight for which I hope you will forgive me. If you are still interested, how are you fixed on either Tuesday 30th or Thursday 1st?
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
I've watched the Modern Pentathlon twice - I just love it as an event. It's the complete opposite of the antiseptic track events.
Russia's Leson looks like a Bond villain assassin - our chappy Choong the sort my mother would love me to marry. What a shame his nerves killed him in the lazer shooting. Leson wasn't phased at all - he's a dead shot.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Also worth reading Hitler's Willing Executioners (poorly written but well researched) to get a sense of who was involved in the Eastern Front massacres.
Quite so, Mr. T. What I have long struggled to understand is the German army in WW2, the Heer, behaving on the whole, correctly when fighting against the Brits and the Yanks but behaved so abominably on the Eastern Front.
The myth that the massacres and ill-treatment of locals there was down solely to the SS is amply documented, as Beevor in his Book "Stalingrad" makes plain. The Heer and some of its supposedly honourable generals, such as Von Manstein, were utterly complicit in the mass murders and other crimes that took place.
Even more surpising when there’s some evidence that anti-Communist Russians initially regarded the Germans as liberators. Is there a deep-seated Germanic fear of “the enemy from the East”? Dating back, perhaps to the Golden Horde or similar (although it didn’t get as far as modern Germany.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Isn't it true though that large numbers of every nationality in German occupied territory in the east (from Latvians through to Russians, and including both communists and anti-communists) were co-opted and participated in the Holocaust, almost irrespective of their pre war politics ? Timothy Snyder's 'Black Earth' is particularly good is dissecting the history and mechanics of the Holocaust (and not to be undertaken lightly).
Yes. The Romanians and Croations ran their own little Holocausts in parallel. But the Ukrainians and Latvians are so far as I know the only nationalities other than Germans to be used to run the actual death camps.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
As for being forced to fight, I am irresistibly reminded of the late great Mandy Rhys-Davies - 'well, they would say that, wouldn't they?'
I think that is more than a little bit of the comfort and safety of hindsight speaking. The Germans conscripted from 'German peoples' in other countries, such as Belgium, Alsace, Hungary. Some were willing, many others were not.
But it is fascinating that some of the worst offenders were not Germans or Japanese, but their minions. The Korean guards in the Japanese PoW camps were often the worst.
Several of the concentration camp guards tried by Israelis have been Lithunaians, have they not?
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
Clearly the Team GB funding model needs to be more ruthless.
Not everyone in Team GB gets funding.
Andy Murray...
Amount spent on golf by UK Sports Council = £0 in 4 years. Medals won = 1 gold.
All this talk about Alastians - let's not forget that German Shepherds were renamed Alastians for a few decades when having a Fritz hound wasn't the done thing.
My Ladybird book of War Dogs was my favourite. Seriously, I read it every night for years - all full of great tales.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
Even more surpising when there’s some evidence that anti-Communist Russians initially regarded the Germans as liberators. Is there a deep-seated Germanic fear of “the enemy from the East”? Dating back, perhaps to the Golden Horde or similar (although it didn’t get as far as modern Germany.
There had always been a dislike of Russians which Hitler's racial theories played on and amplified.
And there is huge and overwhelming evidence that the Ukrainians in particular saw the Germans as liberators. They hoped to leave the hated collective farms and get their land back. As early as 1936, Stalin was warned by the NKVD that if the Germans invaded Ukraine the locals could not be relied on.
Of course, they found later that they were wrong, but as has been noted upthread, it is easy to be wise with hindsight.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
We now have a Brit at the front, Callum Hawkins. But your point about our crocked one begs the question why the athletics team have no substitutes ready for the period before the deadline. I suspect that may be due to the lack of athletes actually funded by the Sport Council. If there is only money for 3 per event, then when 1 gets partly crocked we have no one to fill their slot. Cycling has depth and funds more people (110 vs 86).
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
Clearly the Team GB funding model needs to be more ruthless.
Not everyone in Team GB gets funding.
Andy Murray...
Amount spent on golf by UK Sports Council = £0 in 4 years. Medals won = 1 gold.
That was my point! This interweb thing is hard.
The diddy Mexican Uscanga looks so happy winning MP Bronze - awww. I can watch this again and again. And I have!
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Also worth reading Hitler's Willing Executioners (poorly written but well researched) to get a sense of who was involved in the Eastern Front massacres.
Quite so, Mr. T. What I have long struggled to understand is the German army in WW2, the Heer, behaving on the whole, correctly when fighting against the Brits and the Yanks but behaved so abominably on the Eastern Front.
The myth that the massacres and ill-treatment of locals there was down solely to the SS is amply documented, as Beevor in his Book "Stalingrad" makes plain. The Heer and some of its supposedly honourable generals, such as Von Manstein, were utterly complicit in the mass murders and other crimes that took place.
Indeed. The secret tape recording of German Army Generals in British captivity makes fascinating reading. Only a few were uncomfortable with it, others were clearly willingly involved:
"the most common complaint voiced about war crimes here is that there were not enough of them"
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
The number of Corbyn supporting Trumpites always surprises me... ....tho both seen to have a hardcore of conspiracy theorists so maybe I shouldn't be.....
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
We now have a Brit at the front, Callum Hawkins. But your point about our crocked one begs the question why the athletics team have no substitutes ready for the period before the deadline. I suspect that may be due to the lack of athletes actually funded by the Sport Council. If there is only money for 3 per event, then when 1 gets partly crocked we have no one to fill their slot. Cycling has depth and funds more people (110 vs 86).
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
I think more worrying is that in so many events we don't really have athletes in the top handful and some no representation at all e.g. No javelin, no triple jump.
Now javelin I would have thought would be ideal for a "marginal" gains type approach, as its such a technical event and one which not that many years ago we had a number of the world best.
We know there is only such much you can do in for instance in the 5km, there is a massive in built genetic advantage which means 90% of the athletes are direct decedents of just a few small areas in Africa. But javelin the tiniest change in technique can result in massive differences in distance.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
No.
They look after *their* interests by attempting to persuade the people - often through a forced-compliant media - that their actions are in the national interest.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
We now have a Brit at the front, Callum Hawkins. But your point about our crocked one begs the question why the athletics team have no substitutes ready for the period before the deadline. I suspect that may be due to the lack of athletes actually funded by the Sport Council. If there is only money for 3 per event, then when 1 gets partly crocked we have no one to fill their slot. Cycling has depth and funds more people (110 vs 86).
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
I think more worrying is that in so many events we don't really have athletes in the top handful and some no representation at all e.g. No javelin, no triple jump.
Now javelin I would have thought would be ideal for a "marginal" gains type approach, as its such a technical event and one which not that many years ago we had a number of the world best.
We know there is only such much you can do in for instance in the 5km, there is a massive in built genetic advantage which means 90% of the athletes are direct decedents of just a few small areas in Africa. But javelin the tiniest change in technique can result in massive differences in distance.
Didn't we also have the world record holder for the triple jump. Jonathan Edwards still owns the WR if I am correct.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
No.
They look after *their* interests by attempting to persuade the people - often through a forced-compliant media - that their actions are in the national interest.
Well... There's an element of truth in that.
It's unsatisfactory as a way of thinking about the Putin regime though. Using that analysis, you'd expect sanctions against the elite to be effective.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
We now have a Brit at the front, Callum Hawkins. But your point about our crocked one begs the question why the athletics team have no substitutes ready for the period before the deadline. I suspect that may be due to the lack of athletes actually funded by the Sport Council. If there is only money for 3 per event, then when 1 gets partly crocked we have no one to fill their slot. Cycling has depth and funds more people (110 vs 86).
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
I think more worrying is that in so many events we don't really have athletes in the top handful and some no representation at all e.g. No javelin, no triple jump.
Now javelin I would have thought would be ideal for a "marginal" gains type approach, as its such a technical event and one which not that many years ago we had a number of the world best.
We know there is only such much you can do in for instance in the 5km, there is a massive in built genetic advantage which means 90% of the athletes are direct decedents of just a few small areas in Africa. But javelin the tiniest change in technique can result in massive differences in distance.
Didn't we also have the world record holder for the triple jump. Jonathan Edwards still owns the WR if I am correct.
We had Edwards and a guy called Philips Idowu, who at the ability to be as good as Edwards.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
Clearly the Team GB funding model needs to be more ruthless.
Not everyone in Team GB gets funding.
Andy Murray...
Amount spent on golf by UK Sports Council = £0 in 4 years. Medals won = 1 gold.
That was my point! This interweb thing is hard.
The diddy Mexican Uscanga looks so happy winning MP Bronze - awww. I can watch this again and again. And I have!
The German bloke in the kayak sprint was a good one - he was sitting disconsolate as he thought he'd missed out on the medals, and on camera realised he'd tied with the bloke in third and would get bronze too, and from then to the medal ceremony I've never seem anyone happier.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
You are talking about different things, it isn't about tactics it's about the underlying style of government. The eastern bloc were not just looking after national interests, more obvious given the nature of their 'elections', but populist demagogues use the cover of liberal democracy and then pervert it to their own ends, Putin - Erdogan - Trump?
I note that the current main headline on the ARD German news site is that Germans are, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, being advised to keep at least 10 days worth of food and 5 days of water stockpiled at all times in case of disaster. I'm sure this won't concern anyone here though
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary.
Pity, I have marginally more respect for the former.
It is also very fair to say that there is a very nasty side indeed to that Ukrainian co-operation with the Nazis - I had no idea until a few weeks ago just how deeply embedded the Ukrainian regiments were in the SS nor how deeply implicated they were in the Holocaust.
Wasn’t that why Stalin wanted all”Russian” ex PoW’s returned; so he could deal with the Ukranians?
Them and the Cossacks, who were handed over in 1945 with their families and all shot, including children, less than two hours later. Not one of the finer moments in the annals of the British army.
I think you will find that decision to hand over the Cossack PoWs was taken by politicians not soldiers.
The senior soldiers involved were Harold Macmillan, MP for Stockton, and Austin 'Toby' Low, candidate for Blackpool North. The order came I think from Eisenhower, although it may have come from Roosevelt's earlier deal with Stalin. Both protested angrily to Churchill but when the order was confirmed, obeyed it even though they could in theory have resigned in protest.
Of course, how realistic such an option would have been is another matter. Curragh in 1913 showed the limits of what soldiers could and could not do even in peacetime.
What bothers me about it frankly is not the men - if you fight for another country, especially Nazi Germany, then you should know the risks - but the families.
Incidentally I haven't forgotten we are supposed to be meeting for lunch but I've been very tied up for the last fortnight for which I hope you will forgive me. If you are still interested, how are you fixed on either Tuesday 30th or Thursday 1st?
Doc, the 1st looks a strong contender. Do you want to drop me a mail saying where and at what time we should meet? HurstLlama at gmail dot com will find me or maybe a private message via Vanilla.
At the start of the men's marathon we learn from Brendan Foster that some of our 3 "athletes" are crocked and doing well just to complete the course.........
One is towards the back after 5 km and is described as "doing well".
What is it with GB athletics backing permanently crocked athletes. It's harsh but if you have somebody in the programme who will never be able to train full time again they have f##k all chance of winning. It took 6 years to decide to pull the plug on ones funding despite only being able to train on a cross trainer.
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
We now have a Brit at the front, Callum Hawkins. But your point about our crocked one begs the question why the athletics team have no substitutes ready for the period before the deadline. I suspect that may be due to the lack of athletes actually funded by the Sport Council. If there is only money for 3 per event, then when 1 gets partly crocked we have no one to fill their slot. Cycling has depth and funds more people (110 vs 86).
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
I think more worrying is that in so many events we don't really have athletes in the top handful and some no representation at all e.g. No javelin, no triple jump.
Now javelin I would have thought would be ideal for a "marginal" gains type approach, as its such a technical event and one which not that many years ago we had a number of the world best.
We know there is only such much you can do in for instance in the 5km, there is a massive in built genetic advantage which means 90% of the athletes are direct decedents of just a few small areas in Africa. But javelin the tiniest change in technique can result in massive differences in distance.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
You are talking about different things, it isn't about tactics it's about the underlying style of government. The eastern bloc were not just looking after national interests, more obvious given the nature of their 'elections', but populist demagogues use the cover of liberal democracy and then pervert it to their own ends, Putin - Erdogan - Trump?
Putinism isn't a global ideology like communism, except to the extent that he is not an internationalist.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into track / field events we could compete in by concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics with quite a lot of success. Just throwing the idea out there.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary.
Pity, I have marginally more respect for the former.
I had fun during the Ukraine conflict, it became obvious Putin's troll army were on the Guardian website (god knows why the Guardian) so I signed up and proceeded to ridicule how poorly they were being paid. Any political argument they'd just gloss over but pointing out how worthless their job was annoyed the hell out of them.
I note that the current main headline on the ARD German news site is that Germans are, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, being advised to keep at least 10 days worth of food and 5 days of water stockpiled at all times in case of disaster. I'm sure this won't concern anyone here though
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary. It is amazing how someone in this country can look there and find something admirable, they are the enemies of liberal democracy (like their extremist friends elsewhere).
Just because they do not cherish liberal democracy, and may even regard it with contempt if it leads a nation to act against its own interests, it does not make them its enemy.
Support for such as Assad and Erdogan, coupled with the assymetric warfare attempts to destabilise liberal democracies suggest it does. We are in a very dangerous period, Russia is an economic basket case, it has waning power and waning powers are unpredictable.
They look after what they see as their national interests using the same means the other global powers demonstrate through their actions that they believe are fair game. Nothing more or less.
You are talking about different things, it isn't about tactics it's about the underlying style of government. The eastern bloc were not just looking after national interests, more obvious given the nature of their 'elections', but populist demagogues use the cover of liberal democracy and then pervert it to their own ends, Putin - Erdogan - Trump?
Putinism isn't a global ideology like communism, except to the extent that he is not an internationalist.
Each demagogue is slightly different but the modus operandi tends to be the same sort of thing, controlling media etc.
Without meaning to offend Tyson (well, a little bit ...) I was giving some thought as to why there are so many public-school athletes representing the UK in sports.
Whilst facilities and opportunities are part of it, might there be another component? My school week was six days, with Wednesday and Saturday being half-days academically. On those afternoons, we mainly played sports and/or other activities (Pathfinders, CCF etc). We could also got permission to do academic work.
If this pattern is common in private schools (and it was true for friends who also attended private schools) might it be a large factor in why children who attended them perform so well? Two afternoons a week dedicated to sports and activities.
According to (1), the average time dedicated to sports in secondary schools a week is just 107 minutes.
I note that the current main headline on the ARD German news site is that Germans are, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, being advised to keep at least 10 days worth of food and 5 days of water stockpiled at all times in case of disaster. I'm sure this won't concern anyone here though
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary.
Pity, I have marginally more respect for the former.
I had fun during the Ukraine conflict, it became obvious Putin's troll army were on the Guardian website (god knows why the Guardian) so I signed up and proceeded to ridicule how poorly they were being paid. Any political argument they'd just gloss over but pointing out how worthless their job was annoyed the hell out of them.
I've done the same with Scott P. Especially when they took away his chair.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
Not everyone is in the "programme". And people who aren't in the "programme" have the right to try and qualify through their own efforts - it should never be a closed shop. For all the talk about "marginal gains", I suspect the real reason we are successful in cycling is that we have a group of individuals who train harder than anyone else, and constantly drive each other forwards. The improvements that are driven by competitive activity are not limited to international competition, but from training each and every day that they turn up to work. It is no coincidence that when we look back to past areas of British strength in athletics it was often not limited to one athlete, but several in the same discipline, driving each other onwards.
Doc, the 1st looks a strong contender. Do you want to drop me a mail saying where and at what time we should meet? HurstLlama at gmail dot com will find me or maybe a private message via Vanilla.
Quite happy to leave those details to you as I don't know London very well. I would be getting into Euston but I'm always happy to use the tube to go wherever.
If you can have a think and have some suggestions please drop me a VM or email thehalfwelshman at gmail dot com that would be great. I'll be away for a few days but I'll try and keep checking.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
The womens running where there are "testosterone" ladies, does seem to be a bit pointless.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
I think of it like central contracts where players aren't chasing around playing matches and being under the weather for tests. I suppose the top like Farah might have enough to allow for significant gaps without needing to fund through results but there can't be more than a handful of British athletes like that.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into track / field events we could compete in by concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics with quite a lot of success. Just throwing the idea out there.
This. Hence UK Sport focussing on Shooting for Tokyo as a winning medal area. Our gun laws are seriously stupid here and need reform.
They look after *their* interests by attempting to persuade the people - often through a forced-compliant media - that their actions are in the national interest.
Well... There's an element of truth in that.
It's unsatisfactory as a way of thinking about the Putin regime though. Using that analysis, you'd expect sanctions against the elite to be effective.
Sanctions are rarely effective against the elite, and are a good way for the elite to excise control: they can give favours in the form of sanction-busting to reward individuals, and use it to create an enemy for the people: "See! They are all against us!"
I doubt Putin's wealth (according to some sources vast) has decreased much due to the sanctions. His control over the nation will have.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
I think of it like central contracts where players aren't chasing around playing matches and being under the weather for tests. I suppose the top like Farah might have enough to allow for significant gaps without needing to fund through results but there can't be more than a handful of British athletes like that.
You will be surprised how much a world level athletes can earn these days, but it isn't evenly distributed and yes some events don't allow to compete as often e.g. heptathlon / decathlon hardly ever compete, where as 100m -> 400m can run many times during a season.
Just throwing out some ideas...it doesn't seem like more of the same is the solution to athletics. We are seeing progression in not just cycling and rowing, but diving, gymnastics, taekwondo, swimming, but not athletics.
Economic thought: all the REMAINER traitors are predicting a huge spike in inflation, thanks to Brexit, so we won't be able to afford tea and we will forced to boil nettles and dockleaves etc
If you look over ten years, the £'s collapse after the Crunch was much much bigger than Brexit.
Yet inflation over the same period stayed pretty low. It briefly hit 4% but then went back to the desired 2%....
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
...Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
Mo's funding is propping up the entire success that the athletics team can claim. He probably costs not much more than the average and makes all their activity look worthwhile.
Their elected Government did that. It chose Russia.
And yet the Governments since the 2014 elections did not. Their current position (correct me if I'm wrong) is pro-Western
It is, after an overthrow of their democratically elected pro-Russian President.
Are you Paul Manafort by any chance?
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
I had to Google. Run along now.
Putin apologists in the UK, are you the far left or far right? That unholy alliance are just about the only people who support that vile regime.
People whose stock in trade are words like 'apologist' and 'vile regime' in order to shut down all debate tend to come in two categories too - paid trolls or bien pensant virtue-signalling twats - which are you?
So, far right then. I despise Putin for free, getting paid seems unnecessary.
Pity, I have marginally more respect for the former.
Economic thought: all the REMAINER traitors are predicting a huge spike in inflation, thanks to Brexit, so we won't be able to afford tea and we will forced to boil nettles and dockleaves etc
If you look over ten years, the £'s collapse after the Crunch was much much bigger than Brexit.
Yet inflation over the same period stayed pretty low. It briefly hit 4% but then went back to the desired 2%....
I suspect that cycling’s advantage is that all the keen and good or potentially good ones have moved to be near the Manchester velodrome, As someone pointed out upthread, the Manchester area has a very high concentration of medals for precisely this reason.
Economic thought: all the REMAINER traitors are predicting a huge spike in inflation, thanks to Brexit, so we won't be able to afford tea and we will forced to boil nettles and dockleaves etc
If you look over ten years, the £'s collapse after the Crunch was much much bigger than Brexit.
Yet inflation over the same period stayed pretty low. It briefly hit 4% but then went back to the desired 2%....
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
The womens running where there are "testosterone" ladies, does seem to be a bit pointless.
I see no point in competing against Caster for years unless injured/retires. It's PC nonsense - she's testes and no womb or ovaries. That isn't a marginal physical gain from having big feet or long legs.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
The womens running where there are "testosterone" ladies, does seem to be a bit pointless.
I see no point in competing against Caster for years unless injured/retires. It's PC nonsense - she's testes and no womb or ovaries. That isn't a marginal physical gain from having big feet or long legs.
Perhaps in that event, they should let all the other athletes dope....although to match 3x the normal level of testosterone, they will have to pumped to the gills...there are former East German doped women athletes that had less testosterone than that.
I note that the current main headline on the ARD German news site is that Germans are, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, being advised to keep at least 10 days worth of food and 5 days of water stockpiled at all times in case of disaster. I'm sure this won't concern anyone here though
P.S. The German word for stockpile/hoard - hamstern - always amuses me.
Yes. I've personally stockpiled 389 days' worth of fine red wine
Which means that events will wash over you for 389 days. But on the 390th day, woe betide anyone who stops you getting to an offy (*).
"Sir, those pesky russkies are blocking the road ahead with five tanks!" "Well Joyce, SeanT's just run out of alcohol, and the tanks are between him and the nearest Majestic Wines. Let him loose!" "But sir.... would that be fair on the enemy?"
Without meaning to offend Tyson (well, a little bit ...) I was giving some thought as to why there are so many public-school athletes representing the UK in sports. Whilst facilities and opportunities are part of it, might there be another component? My school week was six days, with Wednesday and Saturday being half-days academically. On those afternoons, we mainly played sports and/or other activities (Pathfinders, CCF etc). We could also got permission to do academic work..........According to (1), the average time dedicated to sports in secondary schools a week is just 107 minutes.
Are you asking for state schools to run 6 days a week? The Teachers Unions are more militant than the doctors! Of course the grammar schools also produced more athletes when they were more prevalent.
I note that the current main headline on the ARD German news site is that Germans are, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, being advised to keep at least 10 days worth of food and 5 days of water stockpiled at all times in case of disaster. I'm sure this won't concern anyone here though
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
The womens running where there are "testosterone" ladies, does seem to be a bit pointless.
I see no point in competing against Caster for years unless injured/retires. It's PC nonsense - she's testes and no womb or ovaries. That isn't a marginal physical gain from having big feet or long legs.
Compare the range of skills required in athletic events with cycling. Cycling has a narrow range of skills and funds 110 people. Athletics has an enormous range from running, jumping and throwing yet athletics only funds 86 people individually. Athletics so far has had 138 medals awarded, Cycling had 51 medals awarded. We are clearly underfunding athletics and choosing Cycling instead becuase we have a better chance of winning cycling medals.
I think my point was maybe it isn't just underfunding athletics, perhaps we are funding people in events we have an inbuilt genetic disadvantage and with limited scope for marginal gains type approach. Cycling and rowing were identified as perfect for this approach, where as we have chosen to fund crocked 5km women runners rather than perhaps pumping money / research efforts into events we could compete in by being concentrating on technique.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics.
But we are funding 100+ cyclists and 100+ rowers and (I guess) fewer than 20 long distance runners... If we only fund 3, then when 1 or 2 get crocked there are no substitutes and little competition.
I know...what I am saying is if the pot is limited for track / field, perhaps we just don't bother with long distance runners who don't have a chance, and funnel it towards things we could gain from. Also it isn't 1 or 2 getting crocked at a late stage....6 years and permanently crocked, that isn't a heart breaking injury in the trials for the Olympics.
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
The womens running where there are "testosterone" ladies, does seem to be a bit pointless.
Economic thought: all the REMAINER traitors are predicting a huge spike in inflation, thanks to Brexit, so we won't be able to afford tea and we will forced to boil nettles and dockleaves etc
If you look over ten years, the £'s collapse after the Crunch was much much bigger than Brexit.
Yet inflation over the same period stayed pretty low. It briefly hit 4% but then went back to the desired 2%....
Said it before, but I don't think repetition is forbidden on this site...
We have services inflation but goods deflation. Our personal rates of inflation are going to vary widely - when I look at the CPI basket of goods it doesn't resemble mine in any way shape or form.
The rate of goods deflation is going to reverse. There's no reason to believe we won't hit 3% or so by end 2017. There are countries who would kill to have that problem. Inflation is fantastic for debtors. It's one of the forgotten factors that led the boomers to be able to capitalise on home ownership back in the 80s.
Without meaning to offend Tyson (well, a little bit ...) I was giving some thought as to why there are so many public-school athletes representing the UK in sports. Whilst facilities and opportunities are part of it, might there be another component? My school week was six days, with Wednesday and Saturday being half-days academically. On those afternoons, we mainly played sports and/or other activities (Pathfinders, CCF etc). We could also got permission to do academic work..........According to (1), the average time dedicated to sports in secondary schools a week is just 107 minutes.
Are you asking for state schools to run 6 days a week? The Teachers Unions are more militant than the doctors! Of course the grammar schools also produced more athletes when they were more prevalent.
No, just noting that it'd be hard for a school that only dedicates 106 minutes of organised time to sports to compete against a school of the same size that dedicates 400+ minutes.
Yet it would be hard for a school that is trying to compete academically to dedicate more time to sport. There're only so many hours.
As for your comment: a few years ago I made the mistake of suggesting to a teacher friend that schools should perhaps stay open slightly longer (in the form of breakfast clubs and after-school activities.
Her response: "We're not a child-minding service."
Comments
The things Remainers tried to do to influence the result.
This snippet from the wiki entry on Malmedy confirms that Allied soldiers also breached the Convention in retaliation and stories of SS or Gestapo personnel being summarily executed in the last days of the war were rife:
"The inspector general of the First Army learned of the shootings about three or four hours later. By late evening of the 17th, rumours that the enemy was killing prisoners had reached the forward American divisions. One US unit issued orders that "No SS troops or paratroopers will be taken prisoner but will be shot on sight.""
This overall picture of Axis and Allied compliance with the Rules of War in the Western Theatre contrasted starkly with German treatment of Russian prisoners (not a party to the Geneva Convention) and with Japanese (not a party) treatment of prisoners.
Treatment of civilians in war torn areas by occupying troops was codified after the war in the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
Scotland, Malc, is 5th.
China, Russia and the US are the bottom three.
Yorkshire’s not been incuded in the table.
As for being forced to fight, I am irresistibly reminded of the late great Mandy Rhys-Davies - 'well, they would say that, wouldn't they?'
At a bit of a loose end now your dealings have been found out?
Timothy Snyder's 'Black Earth' is particularly good is dissecting the history and mechanics of the Holocaust (and not to be undertaken lightly).
Compare to cycling, a saw a clip on YouTube where they have to go for a regular full body fat scan...no progress in shifting some hidden chubby bits you are in big big doo doo.
It was also stretching the definition of 'Manchester' rather generously, and basically including the whole of the cycling team as 'Manchester-based' (though to be fair, most of them do genuinely live somewhere close to Manchester).
Anyway, I think if we're going to go for per-head-of-population battles then Greater Manchester defeinitley beats Wales.
Jason Kenny and Laura Trott's house does evcen better - if that was a country, it would come in at about 12th in the medal table with a population of 2.
A very good point about Allied war crimes. One of the things that makes me uneasy about Nuremberg is that no Allied soldier was ever tried. Anecdotally, I know of prisoners being shot out of hand or surrenders not being accepted (Mr Llama's one about the Black Watch is one I didn't know of but find credible). Historically, we all know about Katyn and the mass rapes performed by the Red Army. But nobody was ever even tried for that. So instead of a bunch of criminals getting their richly deserved penalties, it has always looked like a bunch of losers being victimised, and admirers of the system (Airey Neave in particular) always seem a little disingenuous on this point.
But it is fascinating that some of the worst offenders were not Germans or Japanese, but their minions. The Korean guards in the Japanese PoW camps were often the worst.
The myth that the massacres and ill-treatment of locals there was down solely to the SS is amply documented, as Beevor in his Book "Stalingrad" makes plain. The Heer and some of its supposedly honourable generals, such as Von Manstein, were utterly complicit in the mass murders and other crimes that took place.
And the response of that US unit to Malmedy (and of the Russian Army to German brutality to its PoWs in 1941 - the majority of whom did not survive a year in captivity) shows why, from a military perspective, abiding by the rules works. You do not want to force your enemy into a 'no surrender, take no prisoners' mindset.
Of course, how realistic such an option would have been is another matter. Curragh in 1913 showed the limits of what soldiers could and could not do even in peacetime.
What bothers me about it frankly is not the men - if you fight for another country, especially Nazi Germany, then you should know the risks - but the families.
Incidentally I haven't forgotten we are supposed to be meeting for lunch but I've been very tied up for the last fortnight for which I hope you will forgive me. If you are still interested, how are you fixed on either Tuesday 30th or Thursday 1st?
Russia's Leson looks like a Bond villain assassin - our chappy Choong the sort my mother would love me to marry. What a shame his nerves killed him in the lazer shooting. Leson wasn't phased at all - he's a dead shot.
Is there a deep-seated Germanic fear of “the enemy from the East”? Dating back, perhaps to the Golden Horde or similar (although it didn’t get as far as modern Germany.
Medals won = 1 gold.
My Ladybird book of War Dogs was my favourite. Seriously, I read it every night for years - all full of great tales.
And there is huge and overwhelming evidence that the Ukrainians in particular saw the Germans as liberators. They hoped to leave the hated collective farms and get their land back. As early as 1936, Stalin was warned by the NKVD that if the Germans invaded Ukraine the locals could not be relied on.
Of course, they found later that they were wrong, but as has been noted upthread, it is easy to be wise with hindsight.
On the medals front we have 7 of the 138 athletics medals awarded, which is 5%. Same % as London. But only 2 were gold this time. When Mo retires, our athletics team will be very bare.
The diddy Mexican Uscanga looks so happy winning MP Bronze - awww. I can watch this again and again. And I have!
"the most common complaint voiced about war crimes here is that there were not enough of them"
http://www.historytoday.com/blog/2013/02/secret-second-world-war-tapes-german-pows
....tho both seen to have a hardcore of conspiracy theorists so maybe I shouldn't be.....
Now javelin I would have thought would be ideal for a "marginal" gains type approach, as its such a technical event and one which not that many years ago we had a number of the world best.
We know there is only such much you can do in for instance in the 5km, there is a massive in built genetic advantage which means 90% of the athletes are direct decedents of just a few small areas in Africa. But javelin the tiniest change in technique can result in massive differences in distance.
They look after *their* interests by attempting to persuade the people - often through a forced-compliant media - that their actions are in the national interest.
It's unsatisfactory as a way of thinking about the Putin regime though. Using that analysis, you'd expect sanctions against the elite to be effective.
Hamstern für den Katastrophenfall
P.S. The German word for stockpile/hoard - hamstern - always amuses me.
This is what South Korea did for Winter Olympics with quite a lot of success. Just throwing the idea out there.
Whilst facilities and opportunities are part of it, might there be another component? My school week was six days, with Wednesday and Saturday being half-days academically. On those afternoons, we mainly played sports and/or other activities (Pathfinders, CCF etc). We could also got permission to do academic work.
If this pattern is common in private schools (and it was true for friends who also attended private schools) might it be a large factor in why children who attended them perform so well? Two afternoons a week dedicated to sports and activities.
According to (1), the average time dedicated to sports in secondary schools a week is just 107 minutes.
(1): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/226505/Evidence_on_physical_education_and_sport_in_schools.pdf
Another point, we still fund Mo and a number of other multi-millionaire athletes. Again if funds are limited, perhaps we have to redirect some of that funding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc4g1glBT8U
If you can have a think and have some suggestions please drop me a VM or email thehalfwelshman at gmail dot com that would be great. I'll be away for a few days but I'll try and keep checking.
I doubt Putin's wealth (according to some sources vast) has decreased much due to the sanctions. His control over the nation will have.
Just throwing out some ideas...it doesn't seem like more of the same is the solution to athletics. We are seeing progression in not just cycling and rowing, but diving, gymnastics, taekwondo, swimming, but not athletics.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/semenya-has-no-womb-or-ovaries/story-e6frexni-1225771672245
"Sir, those pesky russkies are blocking the road ahead with five tanks!"
"Well Joyce, SeanT's just run out of alcohol, and the tanks are between him and the nearest Majestic Wines. Let him loose!"
"But sir.... would that be fair on the enemy?"
(*) What is the posho variant of an offy?
We have services inflation but goods deflation. Our personal rates of inflation are going to vary widely - when I look at the CPI basket of goods it doesn't resemble mine in any way shape or form.
The rate of goods deflation is going to reverse. There's no reason to believe we won't hit 3% or so by end 2017. There are countries who would kill to have that problem. Inflation is fantastic for debtors. It's one of the forgotten factors that led the boomers to be able to capitalise on home ownership back in the 80s.
Yet it would be hard for a school that is trying to compete academically to dedicate more time to sport. There're only so many hours.
As for your comment: a few years ago I made the mistake of suggesting to a teacher friend that schools should perhaps stay open slightly longer (in the form of breakfast clubs and after-school activities.
Her response: "We're not a child-minding service."
I did not dare a reply.