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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Italy does have the most jolly ditty as their national anthem. :smiley:
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,060

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    INTERNAL POLL ALERT - Gregg - Pence Home State.

    Indiana - Clinton 44 .. Trump 44

    http://howeypolitics.com/

    10% lead for Romney last time, although Obama carried it by 1% in 2008.
    The usual health warnings needs to be attached for internal polls but it's certainly in line with recent published polling from several red states.
    Indiana puzzles me. It seems much more Republican than the neighbouring Midwest states, which seem to be either toss ups or Democrat. Any ideas why? Are the demographics so different?

    Indiana was settled by a bigger proportion of Southerners, and a smaller proportion of Catholic immigrants, than its neighbours, and it's less urban than Illinois or Ohio, with a larger White share of the population than Illinois.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    Italy does have the most jolly ditty as their national anthem. :smiley:

    Il Canto Degli Italiani - sounds more like a Gilbert and Sullivan opera than a National anthem.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Incidentally, saw on Twitter the other day that several hundred schoolboys were captured by an Islamist group. Didn't make the news. Whether that's due to dodgy twittering, terrorism fatigue/covering up or the joys of gender equality, who can say?

    The Swiss train attack was well down the running order. Did smile at 'no indication it was terrorism' being the line taken. Apart from the fire and stabbing, presumably...
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,211

    Incidentally, saw on Twitter the other day that several hundred schoolboys were captured by an Islamist group. Didn't make the news. Whether that's due to dodgy twittering, terrorism fatigue/covering up or the joys of gender equality, who can say?

    The Swiss train attack was well down the running order. Did smile at 'no indication it was terrorism' being the line taken. Apart from the fire and stabbing, presumably...

    I spoke to a friend who's a copper and he reckons the unstated policy is to not talk about these things. The police are taking the view that the more coverage these things get the more people will copy them. Of course, that wasn't what happened with Jo Cox, but there you go.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. 86, that seems eminently likely, given the downplaying of the stabbing in London [as terrorism] and the new 'lone wolf/mentally disturbed' line seemingly auto-deployed for anyone who doesn't shout 'Aloha, snackbar'.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    That's fair of her to say, although I would bet good money either she or some of her supporters have condemned an opponent at some point because they 'endorsed' something by retweeting it.
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    Mortimer said:

    If Burgon becomes leader and survived to a general election then Labour could have their subsequent PLP meetings in a taxi.

    Pity the Labour MPs sharing a taxi with Richard fart pants.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Didn't realise this is our best ever pool perf. 6 - 1 gold/5 silver
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    If Katarina Johnson-Thompson married Michael Johnson, she would be:

    Katarina Johnson-Thompson-Johnson :lol:
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    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Farah has Mo-mentum :)
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    About 100 people gathered to protest about his killing. Some buildings, including a petrol station, and cars were set on fire.

    Police have not given the man's ethnic origin or that of the police officer, but did say he was armed with a stolen handgun and had an arrest record.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37075729
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Didn't realise this is our best ever pool perf. 6 - 1 gold/5 silver

    Best ever "away" performance across all sports?
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,060

    Mr. 86, that seems eminently likely, given the downplaying of the stabbing in London [as terrorism] and the new 'lone wolf/mentally disturbed' line seemingly auto-deployed for anyone who doesn't shout 'Aloha, snackbar'.

    Where's the line between terrorism and attacking a person because you don't like them?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Jeepers

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1604473/man-has-his-throat-slit-before-being-stabbed-multiple-times-in-front-of-horrified-families-in-margate/

    Attacker escapes, no description bar age, no motive given.

    Thankfully and amazingly the victim is still alive.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/764758566641303552

    I'm not sure I would have used exactly the phraseology that Paul Lewis used but who's to say he's necessarily wrong?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,130

    'They would rather teach children how to have sex than teach them to believe in God.'

    I would prefer that to the other way around.

    He's the master of the straw man argument.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    An object lesson in headline writing. Like when the telegraph puts stuff in quotes in the headline to make you think a politician said something only for the article body to reveal it is what an opponent said they think the politician is thinking.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Why does it matter whether they're a Crown Dependency or not? If the UK government and the rest of the EU are happy to go along with it, there's nothing to stop them signing a treaty allowing part of a member state to stay in the EU (fisheries, CAP, budget, MEPs, Council of Minister representation etc) while the rest of it leaves.

    The mismatch between a UK trying to do its own thing on immigration while being part of a Common Travel Area with an area that's still in the EU would be a mess, but they already have that mess because of the Republic of Ireland.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,130

    Incidentally, saw on Twitter the other day that several hundred schoolboys were captured by an Islamist group. Didn't make the news. Whether that's due to dodgy twittering, terrorism fatigue/covering up or the joys of gender equality, who can say?

    The Swiss train attack was well down the running order. Did smile at 'no indication it was terrorism' being the line taken. Apart from the fire and stabbing, presumably...

    Do we know who did it?

    According to the Telegraph it was a 27 year old Swiss citizen, which works suggest - if it is terrorism - that it was a second generation immigrant, out possibly a convert.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    That's fair of her to say, although I would bet good money either she or some of her supporters have condemned an opponent at some point because they 'endorsed' something by retweeting it.
    I think hailing is a step up from endorsing.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Other countries (like Britain) have caught up with their training methodologies where they used to be far advanced.

    Also the retirement of Thorpe robs them of lots of swimming medals.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    edited August 2016
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    That's fair of her to say, although I would bet good money either she or some of her supporters have condemned an opponent at some point because they 'endorsed' something by retweeting it.
    I think hailing is a step up from endorsing.
    The headline may have upsold it a little more than mere endorsement (although we hardly expect nuance from headlines), but the difference is a matter of small degrees, which is the key point, it is in the same vein. When assessing the partisanship of others or trying to determine my own level of partisanship, I ask would the person complaining (or their supporters) do the same if it were their opponent doing what they did (however big or small an action it was).

    Sturgeon might not (and as said she was fair to point out what she did vs what the headline implies). Plenty of her supporters definitely would however, that I think is not in the least bit of doubt.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    I seemed to remember reading a couple of years ago that there is big concern in Australia of the reduced participation in sports among younger people and all round fatty fatty bum bum-ness rapidly increasing in a nation known for their active lifestyles given the perfect weather all year round.

    Given they don't have the sort of population like China or USA etc, you need wide participation, with people trying lots and lots of sports, in order to be able to find that one golden nugget.

    They had AB de Villars (2nd best batsman in the world) on sky last week and it seems in SA, he basically tried every sport going and was damn good at them. If you don't have a massive population, you need lots of people doing this.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Disclaimer: I know nothing. Speculation: other countries have caught up. The Australian Institute of Sport was among the first national programmes to systematically identify and train sporting talent. As well as proper funding, it pioneered modern techniques such as video and proper nutrition. Now similar programmes, even if not run by the government, are more common.

    Including here, where we have lottery-funded institutes of sport (a name that hints at Australian inspiration) and stipends for elite athletes, as well as sport-specific programmes.
    http://www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-works
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Disclaimer: I know nothing. Speculation: other countries have caught up. The Australian Institute of Sport was among the first national programmes to systematically identify and train sporting talent. As well as proper funding, it pioneered modern techniques such as video and proper nutrition. Now similar programmes, even if not run by the government, are more common.

    Including here, where we have lottery-funded institutes of sport (a name that hints at Australian inspiration) and stipends for elite athletes, as well as sport-specific programmes.
    http://www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-works
    I think this is why Team GB are the best cyclists, Brailsford and co, have innovated in tech, training and tactics both on the track and the road. They don't just train and race hard, they it do smarter than everybody else.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,811

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/764758566641303552

    I'm not sure I would have used exactly the phraseology that Paul Lewis used but who's to say he's necessarily wrong?

    Obviously Fox, Johnson and Davis should have a bonding weekend at Chevening to sort things out. Once they have established who gets to use the bathroom first, who does what with trade negotiations should be straightforward.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Essexit said:

    Essentially yes. Then again look at how over the past three cycles demographics have changed the map - New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada and Virginia. Added to which Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida are all trending blue.

    My feeling is that Hillary will do well in the South. It has been Republican for years but she did well in the primaries there and will do well with African Americans and Hispanics. I do not think that Trump is the right sort of Republican for bible bashing white southerners. Too much the New York Yankee.

    We can't rule out one or two small, usually heavily Republican states going yellow. Enough people who won't be able to stomach voting for either of the main two.
    I think the South is less Libertarian, the Johnson voters are more likely to influence red to blue shifts elsewhere.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/764758566641303552

    I'm not sure I would have used exactly the phraseology that Paul Lewis used but who's to say he's necessarily wrong?

    Obviously Fox, Johnson and Davis should have a bonding weekend at Chevening to sort things out. Once they have established who gets to use the bathroom first, who does what with trade negotiations should be straightforward.
    I'm not generally a fan of Theresa May but you have to admit she knows how to organize a good Hunger Games.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,634
    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The current infighting isn't exactly a great start either. Hopefully May gives him just enough rope and can get rid.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,060
    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Why does it matter whether they're a Crown Dependency or not? If the UK government and the rest of the EU are happy to go along with it, there's nothing to stop them signing a treaty allowing part of a member state to stay in the EU (fisheries, CAP, budget, MEPs, Council of Minister representation etc) while the rest of it leaves.

    The mismatch between a UK trying to do its own thing on immigration while being part of a Common Travel Area with an area that's still in the EU would be a mess, but they already have that mess because of the Republic of Ireland.
    I wouldn’t recommend going from Brittany to Waterford in a rubber dinghy, TBH.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    MaxPB said:

    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.

    One silly example of this...fitness first use the team GB brand in their exercise classes.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Disclaimer: I know nothing. Speculation: other countries have caught up. The Australian Institute of Sport was among the first national programmes to systematically identify and train sporting talent. As well as proper funding, it pioneered modern techniques such as video and proper nutrition. Now similar programmes, even if not run by the government, are more common.

    Including here, where we have lottery-funded institutes of sport (a name that hints at Australian inspiration) and stipends for elite athletes, as well as sport-specific programmes.
    http://www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-works
    I think this is why Team GB are the best cyclists, Brailsford and co, have innovated in tech, training and tactics both on the track and the road. They don't just train and race hard, they it do smarter than everybody else.
    Just seen this intv - interesting insight

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/aussies-rules-turned-sinking-british-swimmers-into-medal-machine-qzzx96qb7
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139
    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Ha Ha Ha , Little England has spoken
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,130

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
    Surely there's no danger of that with Fox.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Disclaimer: I know nothing. Speculation: other countries have caught up. The Australian Institute of Sport was among the first national programmes to systematically identify and train sporting talent. As well as proper funding, it pioneered modern techniques such as video and proper nutrition. Now similar programmes, even if not run by the government, are more common.

    Including here, where we have lottery-funded institutes of sport (a name that hints at Australian inspiration) and stipends for elite athletes, as well as sport-specific programmes.
    http://www.uksport.gov.uk/our-work/investing-in-sport/how-uk-sport-funding-works
    I think this is why Team GB are the best cyclists, Brailsford and co, have innovated in tech, training and tactics both on the track and the road. They don't just train and race hard, they it do smarter than everybody else.
    Watching cycling would be even more fun if recumbents were un-banned
    http://bikeroute.com/WhyBent.php.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
    Yes for most, but not if the point was to discredit Brexiters, as EPG suggested.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,060
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
    Yes for most, but not if the point was to discredit Brexiters, as EPG suggested.
    It's Liam Fox.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,079
    EPG said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
    Yes for most, but not if the point was to discredit Brexiters, as EPG suggested.
    It's Liam Fox.
    Touche
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    EPG said:

    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    People were surprised at Johnson's appointment. I was far more surprised that Fox was allowed back into the fold. I really, really do not rate him. The Werrity affair was damning.

    The point was to discredit people who supported Brexit, simple as. Not to promote the democratic outcome of the referendum, or to promote talent to high office.
    Seems a bit risky - what if the end up doing a good job?
    Win/win.
    Yes for most, but not if the point was to discredit Brexiters, as EPG suggested.
    Win if Fox is discredited and can go back to his den. Win if in fact he’d learned his lesson and used the grey matter he has, or at least had when a student.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Why does it matter whether they're a Crown Dependency or not? If the UK government and the rest of the EU are happy to go along with it, there's nothing to stop them signing a treaty allowing part of a member state to stay in the EU (fisheries, CAP, budget, MEPs, Council of Minister representation etc) while the rest of it leaves.

    The mismatch between a UK trying to do its own thing on immigration while being part of a Common Travel Area with an area that's still in the EU would be a mess, but they already have that mess because of the Republic of Ireland.
    All theoretically possible, but the United Kingdom would start to look less like one country, i.e. exactly what Sturgeon wants. Passport checks along the entire English-Scottish border would be much more drastic than checks at airports/seaports connecting GB and NI, which seems like the obvious solution to the CTA issue.

    That said, there are still all kinds of potential problems. What if a piece of law passed by Parliament conflicts with EU law? Would it be struck down in Scotland by the ECJ? Would only English/Welsh/NI MPs get to vote on such a piece of legislation? We'd have to define territorial waters between Scotland/rest of UK for fishing purposes too.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    I should also note that team GB aren't resting on their laurels, I am aware of them working with a leading UK uni on some very cool tech for the next generation of GB Olympians.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited August 2016
    On topic - given that "attractiveness to the wider electorate" has ceased to be a criteria for a potential Labour leader for the foreseeable future, it is realistic to think that virtually anyone could be the next leader. Large sections of the "membership" no longer exists to support the Labour party - they exist to support Corbyn and Corbynism. Not that Smith will be much better - aside from Trident it appears that most of his policy platform is pretty far left as well - and certainly to the left of what Miliband was offering.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Why does it matter whether they're a Crown Dependency or not? If the UK government and the rest of the EU are happy to go along with it, there's nothing to stop them signing a treaty allowing part of a member state to stay in the EU (fisheries, CAP, budget, MEPs, Council of Minister representation etc) while the rest of it leaves.

    The mismatch between a UK trying to do its own thing on immigration while being part of a Common Travel Area with an area that's still in the EU would be a mess, but they already have that mess because of the Republic of Ireland.
    All theoretically possible, but the United Kingdom would start to look less like one country, i.e. exactly what Sturgeon wants. Passport checks along the entire English-Scottish border would be much more drastic than checks at airports/seaports connecting GB and NI, which seems like the obvious solution to the CTA issue.

    That said, there are still all kinds of potential problems. What if a piece of law passed by Parliament conflicts with EU law? Would it be struck down in Scotland by the ECJ? Would only English/Welsh/NI MPs get to vote on such a piece of legislation? We'd have to define territorial waters between Scotland/rest of UK for fishing purposes too.
    The rest of the EU wouldn't be happy to go along with it, so all other discussion is moot.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I should also note that team GB aren't resting on their laurels, I am aware of them working with a leading UK uni on some very cool tech for the next generation of GB Olympians.

    I do wish they'd get a decent team costume sorted out. It's impossible to see our competitors at a distance/the faded Union Jack logo is totally covered by the number bib. The Jamaicans, Chinese and Aussies are instantly spotable. Are there rules to prevent us using our flag as the whole swim cap or team shorts? The Jamaican ladies have one black and one yellow arse cheek!
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Ha Ha Ha , Little England has spoken
    Far from it. I want to keep the UK united with Scotland as a full part, not semi-detached.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139
    MaxPB said:

    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.

    Conversely I think it is just bollox, as we hear from the EBC commentators often , "England , oops I mean Team GB are leading". Not sure what the FA could learn from it , hard for them to rebrand from Team England.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    I should also note that team GB aren't resting on their laurels, I am aware of them working with a leading UK uni on some very cool tech for the next generation of GB Olympians.

    I do wish they'd get a decent team costume sorted out. It's impossible to see our competitors at a distance/the faded Union Jack logo is totally covered by the number bib. The Jamaicans, Chinese and Aussies are instantly spotable. Are there rules to prevent us using our flag as the whole swim cap or team shorts? The Jamaican ladies have one black and one yellow arse cheek!
    They were designed by Stella McCartney, they are fashion...wellI think that is what the idea was.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.

    Conversely I think it is just bollox, as we hear from the EBC commentators often , "England , oops I mean Team GB are leading". Not sure what the FA could learn from it , hard for them to rebrand from Team England.
    When was they last time they said "England, I mean Team GB"?
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.

    Conversely I think it is just bollox, as we hear from the EBC commentators often , "England , oops I mean Team GB are leading". Not sure what the FA could learn from it , hard for them to rebrand from Team England.
    I don't see the connection to the FA, but I can't recall a single commentator referring to England in the context of the Olympics.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    I should also note that team GB aren't resting on their laurels, I am aware of them working with a leading UK uni on some very cool tech for the next generation of GB Olympians.

    I do wish they'd get a decent team costume sorted out. It's impossible to see our competitors at a distance/the faded Union Jack logo is totally covered by the number bib. The Jamaicans, Chinese and Aussies are instantly spotable. Are there rules to prevent us using our flag as the whole swim cap or team shorts? The Jamaican ladies have one black and one yellow arse cheek!
    They were designed by Stella McCartney, they are fashion...
    At least they didn't have gold lame armpits like 2012 - they were truly awful.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Ha Ha Ha , Little England has spoken
    Far from it. I want to keep the UK united with Scotland as a full part, not semi-detached.
    I would prefer fully detached rather than being a sub region of England
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,375

    'They would rather teach children how to have sex than teach them to believe in God.'

    I would prefer that to the other way around.

    Yep. Teaching your kids the details of sex sensibly is difficult, but indoctrinating them in any religion (or political belief) is simply a Bad Idea.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    'They would rather teach children how to have sex than teach them to believe in God.'

    I would prefer that to the other way around.

    Yep. Teaching your kids the details of sex sensibly is difficult, but indoctrinating them in any religion (or political belief) is simply a Bad Idea.
    Are you finally cooling off on Corbyn Nick, or had you simply not thought that one through?
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    edited August 2016
    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.
    Why?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
    The best day of cricket I have ever watched live was when atherton batted all day at Trent bridge against Donald, Pollock & kallis to save the game. Donald was lightening that day, the wicketkeeper looked scared from 30 yards behind the stumps!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477
    alex. said:

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    .
    I don't get it?
    He was at Cambridge, and he was highly unpopular. Apparently he came back to his locker once to find somebody had written 'God' across it in large letters.

    Very able man in many ways, that said.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Ha Ha Ha , Little England has spoken
    Far from it. I want to keep the UK united with Scotland as a full part, not semi-detached.
    I would prefer fully detached rather than being a sub region of England
    Scotland's not a sub region of England, but whatever. It would be a sad thing if Scotland ended a highly successful partnership of more than 300 years to be subsumed in a daft supranational project and ruled from Belgium.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Botham has just announced he's getting treatment for impotence. Brave man and great role model for guys too shy to talk about it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477
    edited August 2016

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
    The best day of cricket I have ever watched live was when atherton batted all day at Trent bridge against Donald, Pollock & kallis to save the game. Donald was lightening that day, the wicketkeeper looked scared from 30 yards behind the stumps!
    He did better than that. At Trent Bridge, he actually went and won the game with his unbeaten 98 (although he later admitted he should have been given out caught behind early on off Donald).

    It was Old Trafford where he batted to save the match with Stewart, but he was out hiking hooking on the final morning leaving Croft and Fraser to block the last over.

    Edit - autocorrect sucks.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    .
    I don't get it?
    He was at Cambridge, and he was highly unpopular. Apparently he came back to his locker once to find somebody had written 'God' across it in large letters.

    Very able man in many ways, that said.
    Wrote a very interesting book on gambling.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
    The best day of cricket I have ever watched live was when atherton batted all day at Trent bridge against Donald, Pollock & kallis to save the game. Donald was lightening that day, the wicketkeeper looked scared from 30 yards behind the stumps!
    He did better than that. At Trent Bridge, he actually went and won the game with his unbeaten 98 (although he later admitted he should have been given out caught behind early on off Donald).

    It was Old Trafford where he batted to save the match with Stewart, but he was out hiking on the final morning leaving Croft and Fraser to block the last over.
    You are right...it was the Donald vs atherton match up that is imprinted in my mind...I have never seen anybody bowl that fast (never saw akhtar bowl live) and he definitely touched it in the way through...He also batted with jack Russell in SA for some crazy number of hours.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting, and rather against the prevailing narrative

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/08/12/trum p_supporters_haven_t_been_affected_by_trade_or_immigration_at_all_study.html

    Interesting there are more many unregistred eligible white voters than minorities in America.

    http://www.timeout.com/london/blog/five-maps-that-quantify-exactly-how-rammed-london-is-021816?utm_source=Outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign={London: RSS}&utm_content=53452968&cid=lon~ppc~{London:RSS}~otb~tai~me~53452968~20160814065837
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
    The best day of cricket I have ever watched live was when atherton batted all day at Trent bridge against Donald, Pollock & kallis to save the game. Donald was lightening that day, the wicketkeeper looked scared from 30 yards behind the stumps!
    He did better than that. At Trent Bridge, he actually went and won the game with his unbeaten 98 (although he later admitted he should have been given out caught behind early on off Donald).

    It was Old Trafford where he batted to save the match with Stewart, but he was out hiking on the final morning leaving Croft and Fraser to block the last over.
    He also batted with jack Russell in SA for some crazy number of hours.
    He batted for over 9 hours I think - Russell for something like 5 for the grand total of 29.

    Seems odd to write that - when he played for Gloucestershire he batted at three in onedayers because he was a good shotmaker cum slogger.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Richard Burgon - the counter example to the obsession of "widening participation" at top universities.

    We could mention Mike Atherton at this juncture.

    We could do with him in the cricket right now though.
    The best day of cricket I have ever watched live was when atherton batted all day at Trent bridge against Donald, Pollock & kallis to save the game. Donald was lightening that day, the wicketkeeper looked scared from 30 yards behind the stumps!
    He did better than that. At Trent Bridge, he actually went and won the game with his unbeaten 98 (although he later admitted he should have been given out caught behind early on off Donald).

    It was Old Trafford where he batted to save the match with Stewart, but he was out hiking on the final morning leaving Croft and Fraser to block the last over.
    You are right...it was the Donald vs atherton match up that is imprinted in my mind...and he definitely touched it in the way through...He also batted with jack Russell in SA for some crazy number of hours.
    Everyone knew he'd gloved it except the umpire (Merv Kitchen, was it?). If DRS had been in place, we'd have lost that match.
  • Options
    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189


    He was at Cambridge, and he was highly unpopular. Apparently he came back to his locker once to find somebody had written 'God' across it in large letters.

    Very able man in many ways, that said.
    I thought the Atherton story was that someone wrote FEC on his locker. Which was either Future England Captain or had the word "Educated" in between two less savoury terms
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477
    edited August 2016
    rawzer said:



    He was at Cambridge, and he was highly unpopular. Apparently he came back to his locker once to find somebody had written 'God' across it in large letters.

    Very able man in many ways, that said.

    I thought the Atherton story was that someone wrote FEC on his locker. Which was either Future England Captain or had the word "Educated" in between two less savoury terms
    You may be right, I don't have the book to hand to check. It may be there was a second incident when he was captaining the A-tour, where he didn't exactly make friends either.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    Should say I saw Chapman pitch in MLB last year from about 20 rows back...for those that don't know he regularly hits 105mph. Makes them likes of Anderson and co in the cricket look like they are sending it down in slow motion.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,088
    edited August 2016
    rawzer said:



    He was at Cambridge, and he was highly unpopular. Apparently he came back to his locker once to find somebody had written 'God' across it in large letters.

    Very able man in many ways, that said.
    I thought the Atherton story was that someone wrote FEC on his locker. Which was either Future England Captain or had the word "Educated" in between two less savoury terms

    I thought that it was his Old Trafford locker where that was written.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024


    New polls put Clinton across 270 electoral votes in the polling-based map. http://ow.ly/2FSE303bxje
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    rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    thought that it was his Old Trafford locker where that was written.
    Yes I'm sure that's right, not much point in others at Cambridge insulting him for being Educated :)
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    ydoethur said:


    I have put a small sum on Burgon, though, to be honest, I feel it almost inconceivable a 50/1 political bet could possibly come off. It's hard to think of any such example.

    What did OGH get on Barack Obama as the next President? Or is that what you were referring to?
    I thought he tipped it rather than actually put the money down?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    On Team GB branding, I read this on Wikipedia:

    "Comedian and columnist David Mitchell described the British Olympic Association's decision to create a nickname and rebrand their representative team as "capitalism's final victory" and "pathetic", going on to say that anyone who thought rebranding the Olympic squad has helped win more medals "are either morons or they think our athletes are".[9] Scottish columnist Gerry Hassan commented that "Team GB represents something which is a fiction and an illusion which doesn’t correspond with any political form.[10]"

    The fact that it annoys idiots like that so much means we're on the right track. I have to say the rebrand to Team GB has been a masterstroke both in terms of marketing and in terms of sporting achievement and the spirit with the athletes. You can tell that the rowers are happy when the swimmers do well and the swimmers are jubilant when the the track and field athletes perform and everyone wants to tune in to the cycling every evening. I remember 1996, it didn't seem like that was the case then. The FA should look at that and learn the lessons.

    Conversely I think it is just bollox, as we hear from the EBC commentators often , "England , oops I mean Team GB are leading". Not sure what the FA could learn from it , hard for them to rebrand from Team England.
    When was they last time they said "England, I mean Team GB"?
    lat time I heard it was on rugby , luckily I have avoided most of this as its pap
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,139
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    O/t (Is Brexit ever, though?) but this has appeared on a Facebook page I look at
    :"Denmark-based academic Ulrik Pram Gad has suggested the UK could seek inspiration from Greenland, which withdrew from the EEC in 1985 while the rest of the Kingdom of Denmark remained.”
    It’s from an Irish newspaper and apparently St Nicola’s in favour of it.

    I make no comment, I simply report!

    So a bit like how the UK is in the EU but Guernsey and Jersey aren't. Of course, Scotland is a full part of the UK, not a Crown Dependency. Sturgeon knows that - this whole charade is just so that when she calls another secession referendum she can pretend to have been reasonable and considered other options. Personally I think Theresa should just call her bluff and hold the referendum anyway.
    Ha Ha Ha , Little England has spoken
    Far from it. I want to keep the UK united with Scotland as a full part, not semi-detached.
    I would prefer fully detached rather than being a sub region of England
    Scotland's not a sub region of England, but whatever. It would be a sad thing if Scotland ended a highly successful partnership of more than 300 years to be subsumed in a daft supranational project and ruled from Belgium.
    We obviously have differing ideas of what "successful" means.
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/764758566641303552

    I'm not sure I would have used exactly the phraseology that Paul Lewis used but who's to say he's necessarily wrong?

    Obviously Fox, Johnson and Davis should have a bonding weekend at Chevening to sort things out. Once they have established who gets to use the bathroom first, who does what with trade negotiations should be straightforward.

    What a deeply unimpressive trio they are. The Tories are very lucky that Labour have made themselves unelectable. But lumbering the country with such preening lighweights makes Labour's implosion even more unforgiveable.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477
    GeoffM said:

    ydoethur said:


    I have put a small sum on Burgon, though, to be honest, I feel it almost inconceivable a 50/1 political bet could possibly come off. It's hard to think of any such example.

    What did OGH get on Barack Obama as the next President? Or is that what you were referring to?
    I thought he tipped it rather than actually put the money down?
    Fairly sure he put money on it. Seem to remember a special post about the day he collected his winnings.

    This one also mentions profits:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/11/07/is-it-now-game-on-for-the-general-election/

    Interesting to read those threads - among other things, the suggestion that Jon Huntsman might succeed Obama, that Osborne would not be Chancellor, and that Cameron's successor was likely not even an MP.

    Well, not all bets at 50-1 come in.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436

    Jonathan said:

    My main insight from this piece is that Cambridge really churn out some duffers.

    How very dare you madam. We've also produced some of country's finest, for example, Nick Clegg, Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    Has Cambridge produced any top-rate politician since Pitt the Younger?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    Jonathan said:

    My main insight from this piece is that Cambridge really churn out some duffers.

    How very dare you madam. We've also produced some of country's finest, for example, Nick Clegg, Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    Has Cambridge produced any top-rate politician since Pitt the Younger?
    Define 'top-rate'.
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    Burgon

    I mean

    The farting commie

    Burgon

    This is the most preposterous bet and thread ever on PB.

    Given the state of labour it's probably nailed on.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    My main insight from this piece is that Cambridge really churn out some duffers.

    How very dare you madam. We've also produced some of country's finest, for example, Nick Clegg, Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    Has Cambridge produced any top-rate politician since Pitt the Younger?
    Define 'top-rate'.
    I jest. Setting the bar at Pitt or better is not entirely reasonable.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157

    FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/764758566641303552

    I'm not sure I would have used exactly the phraseology that Paul Lewis used but who's to say he's necessarily wrong?

    Obviously Fox, Johnson and Davis should have a bonding weekend at Chevening to sort things out. Once they have established who gets to use the bathroom first, who does what with trade negotiations should be straightforward.

    What a deeply unimpressive trio they are. The Tories are very lucky that Labour have made themselves unelectable. But lumbering the country with such preening lighweights makes Labour's implosion even more unforgiveable.

    TBF although it's normally true that the opposition needs to be electable to discourage the government from doing things it dislikes, in this case the Prime Minister is trying to keep Britain in the EU, which has historically been a Labour goal as well.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    My main insight from this piece is that Cambridge really churn out some duffers.

    How very dare you madam. We've also produced some of country's finest, for example, Nick Clegg, Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    Has Cambridge produced any top-rate politician since Pitt the Younger?
    Define 'top-rate'.
    I jest. Setting the bar at Pitt or better is not entirely reasonable.
    Off the top of my head, all of the following holders of at least one Great Office were at Cambridge:

    Stanley Baldwin
    Iain Macleod
    Ken Clarke
    Michael Howard
    Arthur Balfour
    Henry Campbell-Bannerman (postgraduate)
    Lord Palmerston (postgraduate)

    I am sure there are more, but considering that includes the most electorally successful leader of all time, the first leader of a political party from a religious minority, the only philosopher ever to be PM and one of Britain's most famous war leaders, I think they've done OK.

    I think Edinburgh is the only other university that has provided more than one PM.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited August 2016
    I have to say I really don't like the DRS rules with "umpire's call". Either we trust Hawkeye is accurate or it isn't, and Hawkeye claim their testing (plus independent oversight) proves their tech is incredibly accurate.

    I know in tennis they have full view of the ball, rather than "predicted" direction of travel, but there they go with whatever Hawkeye shows, not well it clipped the line so it is umpires call.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    PlatoSaid said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Does anyone have a feel for what's happened to the Aussies? Their medals tally is sliding away.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_Olympics

    They're on 22 right now = 7th

    All post Sydney lack of momentum/investment?

    Amazing to think we came 36th in Atlanta in 96.
    I keep noticing countries by their absence in some events. I look around for their competitors and either they aren't there, or aren't well placed. Some have obvious doping issues, others have lost their mojo or strategic way, others are upcoming.

    It's fun, but a bit weird.
    I find it amazing that East Germany has no-one in any event. They used to do so well, often 3rd in the medals table ;)
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Just been reading about Mike Atherton. Very surprised to discover he had a kid out of wedlock. He really doesn't seem the type to father a bastard!
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    justin124 said:

    Just been reading about Mike Atherton. Very surprised to discover he had a kid out of wedlock. He really doesn't seem the type to father a bastard!

    You obviously don't remember the dirt in the pocket then either....
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,436
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    My main insight from this piece is that Cambridge really churn out some duffers.

    How very dare you madam. We've also produced some of country's finest, for example, Nick Clegg, Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean, and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    Has Cambridge produced any top-rate politician since Pitt the Younger?
    Define 'top-rate'.
    I jest. Setting the bar at Pitt or better is not entirely reasonable.
    Off the top of my head, all of the following holders of at least one Great Office were at Cambridge:

    Stanley Baldwin
    Iain Macleod
    Ken Clarke
    Michael Howard
    Arthur Balfour
    Henry Campbell-Bannerman (postgraduate)
    Lord Palmerston (postgraduate)

    I am sure there are more, but considering that includes the most electorally successful leader of all time, the first leader of a political party from a religious minority, the only philosopher ever to be PM and one of Britain's most famous war leaders, I think they've done OK.

    I think Edinburgh is the only other university that has provided more than one PM.
    It's not bad but were it a boat race, they'd be about 15 lengths back. Different question on Nobel Laureates, mind.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,477

    I have to say I really don't like the DRS rules with "umpire's call". Either we trust Hawkeye is accurate or it isn't, and Hawkeye claim their testing (plus independent oversight) proves their tech is incredibly accurate.

    I know in tennis they have full view of the ball, rather than "predicted" direction of travel, but there they go with whatever Hawkeye shows, not well it clipped the line so it is umpires call.

    I think the point about DRS is it's not designed to be perfect, merely to remove the completely dud decision: Hussain given out LBW having cut the ball for four in 1999 springs to mind. Umpire's call shows it was marginal and therefore there is insufficient evidence to say they were completely wrong.
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