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SystemSystem Posts: 12,183
edited July 2013 in General
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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Thanks for this Harry
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    Are Unite putting up any candidates in any of these seats? :-)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Paywall
    There are two huge obstacles in the way of Mr Miliband becoming Prime Minister and they are dramatised together in the obscure shenanigans in Falkirk. The first is that he has not persuaded the electorate that he cuts it as a leader. The second is that he is not trusted with the public finances or thought to understand the need for fiscal discipline. If the evil ghosts of Tory central office were themselves drafting the script to show Labour at its worst they could do no better than to portray Mr Miliband losing control of his party to a public sector union that demands there be no more cuts.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    John Rentoul doesn't see much for Ed Miliband to celebrate:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "As a Blairite, I can only assume that Watson’s departure will be beneficial to the Labour Party in the long run. But its immediate effect is simply to reinforce the image of Ed Miliband – already seriously alarming much of the Parliamentary Labour Party – that he is a weak leader."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,712
    Thanks Harry, as always.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul doesn't see much for Ed Miliband to celebrate:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "As a Blairite, I can only assume that Watson’s departure will be beneficial to the Labour Party in the long run. But its immediate effect is simply to reinforce the image of Ed Miliband – already seriously alarming much of the Parliamentary Labour Party – that he is a weak leader."

    John Rentoul auditioning to become a PB Tory
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    edited July 2013
    antifrank said:

    John Rentoul doesn't see much for Ed Miliband to celebrate:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "As a Blairite, I can only assume that Watson’s departure will be beneficial to the Labour Party in the long run. But its immediate effect is simply to reinforce the image of Ed Miliband – already seriously alarming much of the Parliamentary Labour Party – that he is a weak leader."

    He's in a pessimistic mood tonight

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 1h

    Found a visual representation of Labour's chances at the next election

    pic.twitter.com/TbYfL3mKV5

    Edit: Oops, he's used that pic in his article.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Scott_P said:



    John Rentoul auditioning to become a PB Tory

    No auditions necessary - we are an equal opportunities group, anyone who wins a bet with tim is free to join us.
  • RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    So the only real possible surprise tonight is a UKIP win in Newcastle U Lyme, not that it would really be a surprise considering how close they got last time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,939
    The BBC have a link to Tom's previous set of resignation letters. They seem, well almost normal and substantive: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5320760.stm#watson

    Blair's response is firm too:
    "To put all this at risk in this way is simply not a sensible, mature or intelligent way of conducting ourselves if we want to remain a governing party.

    So I am sorry we are in disagreement.

    Yours ever

    Tony "

    It's a bit of a contrast.
    The clear reference to having offered his resignation and being asked to stay on, the buddha nonsense and the clear indication that Ed does not have a life or a hinterland are all digs intended to hurt. And they do.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    DavidL said:

    The BBC have a link to Tom's previous set of resignation letters. They seem, well almost normal and substantive: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5320760.stm#watson

    Blair's response is firm too:
    "To put all this at risk in this way is simply not a sensible, mature or intelligent way of conducting ourselves if we want to remain a governing party.

    So I am sorry we are in disagreement.

    Yours ever

    Tony "

    It's a bit of a contrast.
    The clear reference to having offered his resignation and being asked to stay on, the buddha nonsense and the clear indication that Ed does not have a life or a hinterland are all digs intended to hurt. And they do.

    I'm sure right now, Tony Blair is laughing his bollards off
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    This is a local election for local Buddhas! There's nothing for you here!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tbh one of the most revealing insights from the leaked Unite document was how few of their members they estimate voted for Labour last time out, if they and GMB and other affiliates really work on getting their members out to vote (and results in political fund ballots show they are doing better at this - the GMB even texts me about local hospital demos) then that should be quite a boost for Labour.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    edited July 2013
    Good evening, everyone.

    Cheers for this article, Mr. Hayfield.

    What was that people were saying about leftist comedians on Question Time? Tonight's panel is:
    "With David Willetts, Liz Kendall, Simon Hughes, Mark Steel and Jill Kirby in Newcastle."

    Not sure who Kirby is, or why the MPs don't have MP after their names.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    RedRag1 said:

    So the only real possible surprise tonight is a UKIP win in Newcastle U Lyme, not that it would really be a surprise considering how close they got last time.

    UKIP won the Newcastle seat in 2007 but lost it to Labour in 2011 . Their previous councillor has unfortunately given up so they will lose her personal vote .
    Aylsham was a convincing Lib Dem gain in the CC elections in May .
    May saw the Lib Dems gain 2 of the 3 Conservative held CC seats in Abingdon town though the seats were fought on new boundaries compared to 2009 ..

  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    The vanillaforum backend has this thread as "Undefined discussion subject."

    Has there been a mistaging?

    Just after the general election I thought that there was a serious risk of a fragmentation of Labour. This did not happen, probably because of the blank sheet of paper approach and the Buddha like qualities of its leader.

    Is there now a delayed response and something that should have been sorted out years ago, but was not because previously there was a serious imperative not to fragment?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Tory union-bashing could alienate those workers who are also natural Conservative voters | @IsabelHardman http://t.co/IZJ31L0dDO

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    catch 22 innit ? Our unions are politically affiliated and not independent. It's why they do a bad job for their members and other politcal parties attack them. British workers' loss unfortunately.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed is really up for the fight

    @LabourList: Ed Miliband says he's "incredibly angry"

    What a guy. The good news just keeps on coming.
  • tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Tory union-bashing could alienate those workers who are also natural Conservative voters | @IsabelHardman http://t.co/IZJ31L0dDO

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    I can't help thinking your definition of 'Smart Tory' is entirely restricted to a Tory who agrees with you. No matter how you try to spin it this has been anything but a bad week for David Cameron. Ed Milliband on the other hand . . . .

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    What price "smart Labour":

    "there is indeed something rotten in a Labour party controlled by unelected union bosses."

    Nice try - but this is a Labour problem....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    No matter how you try to spin it this has been anything but a bad week for David Cameron. Ed Milliband on the other hand . . . .

    No, no, no, this is brilliant for Ed. Newssense™ is never wrong
    It is all very well for Mr Miliband to say, as he often has, that he is not the sort of leader who wishes to pick a fight with his party. He seems, though, not to have realised that his party, or at least that section of it that gave him his victory over his brother, is picking a fight with him. This is not an arcane internal dispute. It is a toxic story for Labour and Mr Miliband has to stamp on it at once. Focus groups now talk about the Labour Party as if new Labour were a mirage. The image they offer of Labour is the pre-Blair default setting of an assembly of losers.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Having read The Letter, I want some of what Tom's on.

    McBride's take:

    http://dpmcbride.tumblr.com/post/54618232504/heres-to-three-strikes-tommy-watson

    And what's this about?
    '150 MPs win right to claim expenses on behalf of their kids for bigger homes & travel. Our splash tmrw, ahead of suggested 10k pay rise' gallagher
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited July 2013

    Our unions are politically affiliated and not independent. It's why they do a bad job for their members and other politcal parties attack them. British workers' loss unfortunately.

    Most UK trade unions are not affiliated to any political party. But overall it's difficult to argue that British workers have not done well from the trade unions' decision to enter the political process through setting up the Labour party. The position of workers today is much better than it was before they entered politics.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Miliband feels pressure as Unite battle becomes one he cannot afford to lose
    Labour leader cherishes party unity and dislikes factionalism, but, many argue, has turned a blind eye for far too long"

    The
    Daly Telegraph
    Daily Mail
    Sun


    Guardian:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/04/ed-miliband-unite-union?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed's brilliant week topped off by a helpful Guardian article
    Since becoming Labour party leader, Ed Miliband has never really had control of his party machine
    Oh, wait...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/04/ed-miliband-unite-union?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"

    Once more - "like he did on gay marriage"?

    Do you read the papers?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    My Dave as Hannibal, Tom Watson as Paullus and Ed as Varro analogy is becoming truer by the hour.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,939
    It appears to me that either McCluskey or Miliband is going to end up losing their jobs on this. Given their internecine relationship it is very hard to see how the largest financial backer of Labour (by a distance) and the leader can have this kind of relationship.

    The battle is more likely to be fought in Unite's ranks, at least to start off with. Labour will be pulling out all the stops to create an internal challenge. If he succeeds Miliband may look the stronger for it but if he fails Unite will come hunting and there will be nowhere to hide.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Do you?

    Remember Dave on climate change when he became leader. Now he daren't uttter a word for fear of upsetting the right wingers.

    Weak little man

    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"

    Once more - "like he did on gay marriage"?

    Do you read the papers?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    At least EdM is ready to fight

    As you know, I offered my resignation on Tuesday and you asked me to reconsider
    Fight, fight, fig..... Oh.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    DavidL said:


    The battle is more likely to be fought in Unite's ranks, at least to start off with. Labour will be pulling out all the stops to create an internal challenge. If he succeeds Miliband may look the stronger for it but if he fails Unite will come hunting and there will be nowhere to hide.

    Dont be silly - Len has *just* won another (almost certainly final) 5 year term as GS with a thumping majority. There is no mechanism for Labour to challenge his position and no appetite amongst those who possibly could to do so.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216


    Weak little man

    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"

    Once more - "like he did on gay marriage"?

    Do you read the papers?

    I'll take Dave's headlines tomorrow over Ed's....

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    Neil said:

    Our unions are politically affiliated and not independent. It's why they do a bad job for their members and other politcal parties attack them. British workers' loss unfortunately.

    Most UK trade unions are not affiliated to any political party. But overall it's difficult to argue that British workers have not done well from the trade unions' decision to enter the political process through setting up the Labour party. The position of workers today is much better than it was before they entered politics.
    maybe you know the statistics better than I do but isn't it less the number of unions and more the number of members in affiliated unions ? Whichever way I look at it, that Unions won't take on a Labour administration to defend their members interests just looks plain wrong. At the risk of opening a sterile debate between us the lack of action on Brown's pension raid is a case in point big hit to people's pensions but not much protest. Having worked with continental Unions who put their members' interests first I regret to say the UK guys are not that good.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    edited July 2013
    Now does all these Unite shenanigans make a General Strike more likelier?

    Because I want a general strike.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,689

    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    Then one wonders what all the fuss was about with gay marriage.

    But anyway, I can't see the Comeback Clegg entertaining any future coalition deals with Labour now - union strong-arm stuff is as alien to Lib Dems and their supporters as fox-hunt balls. I reckon Nick and his mate Dave are now a long-term fixture.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Whichever way I look at it, that Unions won't take on a Labour administration to defend their members interests just looks plain wrong.

    Do you not remember the last Labour government?! Serwotka called it the worst government in history. There were many battles between the government and trade unions. It wasnt a love in.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    George Eaton @georgeeaton

    One reason for McCluskey's confidence: he's been re-elected to serve until 2018. Could outlast Miliband.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "Tom Watson’s resignation is very important, only no one knows why."

    Glad it's not just me.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited July 2013
    To date, none of the three leaders look particularly in command. Nick Clegg's handling of party misdemeanours has been desperately weak.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    MrJones said:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "Tom Watson’s resignation is very important, only no one knows why."

    Glad it's not just me.

    Perhaps Tom has seen what's happened in Australia, and decided it's time to bring back Gordon?
  • OGH comes out fighting for Ed Miliband. It's unfortunate when the host of a site like this becomes so openly partisan.
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Tory union-bashing could alienate those workers who are also natural Conservative voters | @IsabelHardman http://t.co/IZJ31L0dDO

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    I can't help thinking your definition of 'Smart Tory' is entirely restricted to a Tory who agrees with you. No matter how you try to spin it this has been anything but a bad week for David Cameron. Ed Milliband on the other hand . . . .

    Smart Tories are the ones who know how to win majorities.
    Yes because falling out with the Unions after all those years of brotherly love and mutual respect is what'll cost us a majority. I'm sure the lack of love felt between the Tory Party and the Unions is news to literally dozens around the country.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Ed is not weak.

    He is incwedibly angwy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    Now that's weak.

    And it's yesterday's headline and has not shifted the narrative.....

    Is that the 6th or 7th time you've posted it today?

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    AveryLP said:

    Ed is not weak.

    He is incwedibly angwy.

    Like :-)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Guido Fawkes ✔ @GuidoFawkes

    Watson Boot Boy Ian Austin Calls For EU Referendum http://guyfawk.es/18ypWci

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    Neil said:

    Whichever way I look at it, that Unions won't take on a Labour administration to defend their members interests just looks plain wrong.

    Do you not remember the last Labour government?! Serwotka called it the worst government in history. There were many battles between the government and trade unions. It wasnt a love in.
    I don't recall strikes, or pushing the govt to the wire, the only lot who did that were lorry drivers, I'm afraid my impression is the UK Unions let themselves be bought off with restructuring funds and full time paid officials. Indeed we had the spectacle of Labour being funded by Unite while their members jobs were being offshored.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Daily Mash: A bullet-point guide to Labour's troubles in a place called 'Falkirk'

    The Labour Party is a poisonous collection of chippy, tribal cretins, none of whom are capable of running a bath.

    This is especially true in Scotland.

    Falkirk is in Scotland.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Is that the 6th or 7th time you've posted it today?

    The more often it is posted the truer it gets. Newssense™
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    AveryLP said:

    Ed is not weak.

    He is incwedibly angwy.

    Maybe he'll turn green at PMQ and his shirts will split, or maybe he's not that angry.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    AveryLP said:

    Ed is not weak.

    He is incwedibly angwy.

    "I'll thcream and thcream 'till I'm thick"
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    DavidL said:

    It appears to me that either McCluskey or Miliband is going to end up losing their jobs on this. Given their internecine relationship it is very hard to see how the largest financial backer of Labour (by a distance) and the leader can have this kind of relationship.

    The battle is more likely to be fought in Unite's ranks, at least to start off with. Labour will be pulling out all the stops to create an internal challenge. If he succeeds Miliband may look the stronger for it but if he fails Unite will come hunting and there will be nowhere to hide.
    It has been a dreadful week for Ed Miliband but there is certainly political opportunity here if he can find a way to take it.

    He has repositioned Labour on the economy (reluctantly, but hey) and if he can now crush McCluskey and get him replaced by a moderate he could sell himself as someone who has won a power struggle with the left-wingers and dragged his party on to the centre ground.

    He has to try to take this opportunity, because the alternative looks miserable: at best it'd be a scratchy relationship with the people who put him in power and no hinterland among his own MPs. He ain't gonna win and election if he's not even popular within his own party.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    antifrank said:

    To date, none of the three leaders look particularly in command. Nick Clegg's handling of party misdemeanours has been desperately weak.

    Has Bold Clegg manned up and returned the Michael Brown money yet? No? Thought not.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mock the Week are currently mocking Ed Miliband.

    "Ed Miliband's approval rating is so low, it is almost as bad as his approval rating within his own family"

    His great week gets better,
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,689
    Here's Mike Smithson with Ed Miliband:

    http://tinyurl.com/nk4v7m5
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    I don't recall strikes

    Then you're memory aint what it used to be. There were strikes by teachers, civil servants, postal workers, firefighters ... the list goes on.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Tory union-bashing could alienate those workers who are also natural Conservative voters | @IsabelHardman http://t.co/IZJ31L0dDO

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    I can't help thinking your definition of 'Smart Tory' is entirely restricted to a Tory who agrees with you. No matter how you try to spin it this has been anything but a bad week for David Cameron. Ed Milliband on the other hand . . . .

    Smart Tories are the ones who know how to win majorities.
    Yes because falling out with the Unions after all those years of brotherly love and mutual respect is what'll cost us a majority. I'm sure the lack of love felt between the Tory Party and the Unions is news to literally dozens around the country.
    John Major lead among C1's 1992 = 27%
    David Cameron lead among C1's 2010 = 11%

    You keep thinking you can win a majority by building a coalition between golfers and Horse and Hounds readers and you're perpetually buggered.
    Horse and Hound, tim, not Horse and Hounds.


  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Do you?

    Remember Dave on climate change when he became leader. Now he daren't uttter a word for fear of upsetting the right wingers.

    Weak little man


    At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers.

    I look forward to OGH early morning thread "Why Watson's resignation is bad news for (pick any one from three) Cameron/Osborne/Gove"

    Once more - "like he did on gay marriage"?

    Do you read the papers?

    I would think that if Cameron and Clegg can continue the coalition until GE2015 and keep the policy agenda on track then history will view them as anything but weak. Especially given the difficulties of the economy and the extremes in difference between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Tories.

    Given the immaturity of the Blairite/Brownite years it looks impressive and strong to have kept the show on the road. Far from weak.

    But that's just my take on it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    Depends what you call a strike. Is it a protest strike or is it a we aint going back until we get what we want ? I don't recall closed schools, no post or the army putting out all the fires.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited July 2013
    Will Watson's departure prevent a new round of Labour bloodletting?


    The chatter in the party has been that Watson runs around the country making sure 'his' people get chosen as candidates.

    from the article -

    When Ed Miliband became leader he had a relatively small following in the parliamentary party and certainly nothing that could be called a machine. So he inherited the old Brown-era one. Miliband has stayed studiously aloof from the grindings and whirrings of internal party machination, but the grumbling about the old techniques being back in play was getting hard to ignore. I was told recently that representations had been made to the leader's office by MPs and shadow ministers to the effect that the culture of 'dark arts' was running out of control and that it was in danger of making Ed, with his preference for idealistic, moralising language, look like a hypocrite.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/will-watsons-departure-prevent-new-round-labour-bloodletting

    Mike Smithson,this is what you call weak leadership.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    MrJones said:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "Tom Watson’s resignation is very important, only no one knows why."

    Glad it's not just me.

    Perhaps Tom has seen what's happened in Australia, and decided it's time to bring back Gordon?
    That would be funny.
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @TelePolitics: Tory union-bashing could alienate those workers who are also natural Conservative voters | @IsabelHardman http://t.co/IZJ31L0dDO

    Smart Tories eh, the world outside PB

    I can't help thinking your definition of 'Smart Tory' is entirely restricted to a Tory who agrees with you. No matter how you try to spin it this has been anything but a bad week for David Cameron. Ed Milliband on the other hand . . . .

    Smart Tories are the ones who know how to win majorities.
    Yes because falling out with the Unions after all those years of brotherly love and mutual respect is what'll cost us a majority. I'm sure the lack of love felt between the Tory Party and the Unions is news to literally dozens around the country.
    John Major lead among C1's 1992 = 27%
    David Cameron lead among C1's 2010 = 11%

    You keep thinking you can win a majority by building a coalition between golfers and Horse and Hounds readers and you're perpetually buggered.
    That's not what I think and have never said that so please stop making things up. I just don't happen to believe that Union bashing is going to make much of a difference one way or the other as to the outcome of the election. I personally think, and have said, that the economy will be the biggest single factor in the outcome of the next election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,939
    Neil said:

    DavidL said:


    The battle is more likely to be fought in Unite's ranks, at least to start off with. Labour will be pulling out all the stops to create an internal challenge. If he succeeds Miliband may look the stronger for it but if he fails Unite will come hunting and there will be nowhere to hide.

    Dont be silly - Len has *just* won another (almost certainly final) 5 year term as GS with a thumping majority. There is no mechanism for Labour to challenge his position and no appetite amongst those who possibly could to do so.
    Rule 15.5 of the Unite Rulebook states that:
    "The General Secretary shall be under the control of and act in accordance with the directions of the Executive Council"

    So what directions are they willing to give him on this? Will they direct further payments to the Labour party or not? Will they authorise McCluskey insisting on his independent inquiry? WIll they direct him to back off publically or not?

    This will be the battleground for the next few days. Someone is going to have to blink here and when they do their position will be difficult.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774
    MrJones said:

    MrJones said:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "Tom Watson’s resignation is very important, only no one knows why."

    Glad it's not just me.

    Perhaps Tom has seen what's happened in Australia, and decided it's time to bring back Gordon?
    That would be funny.
    He's 250/1 to be the next Labour leader with William Hill
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Depends what you call a strike. Is it a protest strike or is it a we aint going back until we get what we want ? I don't recall closed schools, no post or the army putting out all the fires.

    A strike is when people refuse to go to work. If you dont recall schools being closed, the post going undelivered or Green Goddesses attending fires then again this is more of an issue for your memory than the history of industrial relations under Labour governments.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    @ Neil

    2011 the most lost days for 20 years. Labour not in power quelle surprise.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9049505/Days-lost-to-strikes-hit-20-year-high.html
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    Good evening, everyone.

    Cheers for this article, Mr. Hayfield.

    What was that people were saying about leftist comedians on Question Time? Tonight's panel is:
    "With David Willetts, Liz Kendall, Simon Hughes, Mark Steel and Jill Kirby in Newcastle."

    Not sure who Kirby is, or why the MPs don't have MP after their names.

    That's last week's panel, Mr Dancer. Tonight it's from Basildon - Just Can't Get Enough!

    :)
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    MrJones said:

    MrJones said:

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/07/04/watsons-resignation-fascinating-what-does-it-mean/

    "Tom Watson’s resignation is very important, only no one knows why."

    Glad it's not just me.

    Perhaps Tom has seen what's happened in Australia, and decided it's time to bring back Gordon?
    That would be funny.


    David Miliband must be kicking himself for having left parliament - now would have been his chance for glory.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    How good a week is Ed having? Even the Nats are laughing at him...

    @PeteWishart
    SNP National Executive tonight. The issue of Labour's current difficulties may have been touched upon.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    DavidL said:

    Will they direct further payments to the Labour party or not?

    If you honestly think this is in question then it's going to be difficult to discuss how this issue may play out with you.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774

    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....

    Everyone knows musical suggestions and references are awesome.

    Today Ed showed Tom who is Master and Servant.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    edited July 2013
    Neil said:

    Depends what you call a strike. Is it a protest strike or is it a we aint going back until we get what we want ? I don't recall closed schools, no post or the army putting out all the fires.

    A strike is when people refuse to go to work. If you dont recall schools being closed, the post going undelivered or Green Goddesses attending fires then again this is more of an issue for your memory than the history of industrial relations under Labour governments.

    Not really Neil, I didn't say there weren't strikes i said there were no strikes which carried through to the bitter end. There were protest strikes not industrial, Compared to what were strikes in the 70s and 80s what you call a strike I'd call a sickie.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited July 2013
    JonathanD said:


    David Miliband must be kicking himself for having left parliament - now would have been his chance for glory.

    If Rudd scores a good result on Oz, look for Gordo to make a magical comeback. His chief fixer has some spare time on his hands now...
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    @ Neil

    2011 the most lost days for 20 years. Labour not in power quelle surprise.

    Well, yes, a 1 day public sector wide strike will tend to do that. It doesnt mean that the public sector strikes that happened under Labour didnt actually happen because you cant remember them.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PeteWishart
    It's amazing what's going on in the Labour Party tonight. Words like meltdown, crisis and disaster seem inefficient.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2013
    More on the man who lost GE2015 for the Tories

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23191614
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....

    Everyone knows musical suggestions and references are awesome.

    Today Ed showed Tom who is Master and Servant.
    Personal Buddha?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The fight with Len is great news for Ed, right?

    @GdnPolitics
    Labour crisis as Tom Watson quits and Unite union claims stitch-up http://bit.ly/17OMtyw
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited July 2013

    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....

    Dear Tom, I'm refusing to accept your resignation from 2 days ago, and sacking you instead...

    Yeah, right.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2013
    @MikeSmithsonb

    'At least EdM is ready to fight unlike capitulating Dave with his right wingers'

    Your having a laugh,the reality is Ed tried to gloss over it and hoped it would go away and nobody would notice.

    Now he's been pushed into a corner by his paymaster and has no choice.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    Neil said:

    @ Neil

    2011 the most lost days for 20 years. Labour not in power quelle surprise.

    Well, yes, a 1 day public sector wide strike will tend to do that. It doesnt mean that the public sector strikes that happened under Labour didnt actually happen because you cant remember them.
    Sorry Neil we're talking at different purposes you've probably never lived through a serious strike where people don't go to work fot three or four weeks and things come to a stop. That's a strike. here's a graph to show what we had versus the union lite activities of late

    http://www.unionancestors.co.uk/Images/Strikes 1901-2000.pdf
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    From the:

    Daily Telegraph
    Daily Mail
    Sun
    Times
    Daily Express


    Guardian:

    "Ed Miliband is facing the biggest crisis of his three-year Labour leadership after the party's largest union backer, Len McCluskey, accused the party's leadership of a "stitch-up" and a "scandalous" attempt to smear his Unite union over the bitterly contested selection for the Falkirk parliamentary seat."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/04/labour-tom-watson-unite-union?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    Just as well its Cameron, not Miliband that's weak.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,774

    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....

    Everyone knows musical suggestions and references are awesome.

    Today Ed showed Tom who is Master and Servant.
    Personal Buddha?
    I think Ed is wanting to tell Tom, "Leave in Silence" because you're "Useless"
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNewsnight
    Labour at war? @BBCAllegra has the latest and we're joined by a member of the Shadow Cabinet to explain what's going on #newsnight
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    More on the man who lost GE2015 for the Tories

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23191614

    Thanks for that,another plus for gove.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Alanbrooke

    So 1 day actions dont count except for when they boost the strike day numbers under the Tories in which case they do?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    Toenails on BBC News 'Miliband's people want to imply Watson was sacked, which is interesting' and Watson's musical suggestion 'not terribly helpful'....

    Everyone knows musical suggestions and references are awesome.

    Today Ed showed Tom who is Master and Servant.
    Personal Buddha?
    I think Ed is wanting to tell Tom, "Leave in Silence" because you're "Useless"
    I am on record in this forum in stating that "Question Time is like doing a jigsaw - a pointless way to pass the time until you die!" but this week's edition is from Basildon!
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited July 2013

    More on the man who lost GE2015 for the Tories

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23191614

    That's great. Gove says what others merely think.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2355714/Commons-Speaker-John-Bercows-travel-expenses-revealed.html

    'Commons Speaker John Bercow has run up a £100,000 bill in just three years on a taxpayer-funded tour of Britain and the world...'

    He's no Boothroyd.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    As a regular lurker I can't help laughing at OGH going on about Ed not looking weak in amidst the Labour meltdown. Think OGH needs a lie down.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963

    At least EdM is ready to fight


    About as likely as a LibDem majority in 2015, Mike!

    :)
  • Days lost to strikes were quite low this year, lowest sinse 2005 anyway. Only around 0.25 million compared to 1.4 million in 2011. Figures only came out today.

    Although to back up Alanbrooke, average days lost in the 80s were around 7m compared to 0.7m in the 90s and 2000s.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome
    @EmmaReynoldsMP: “Ed Miliband came to the conclusion that Tom Watson had become the story and therefore had to go.”

    Really?

    On Tuesday Ed refused Tom's resignation

    On Wednesday Ed was prepared to defend Tom at PMQs

    On Thursday Tom resigned

    After Tom resigned, “Ed Miliband came to the conclusion that Tom Watson had become the story and therefore had to go.”

    The spin is weaker than Ed himself
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    A simplistic view but then what did we expect.

    A crisis shouldn't be regarded as a problem but an opportunity.
    Scott_P said:

    The fight with Len is great news for Ed, right?

    @GdnPolitics
    Labour crisis as Tom Watson quits and Unite union claims stitch-up http://bit.ly/17OMtyw

This discussion has been closed.