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  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @RobD

    'Because then both chambers will be elected.'

    On that basis a Parish council should have the same powers as a County council as they are both elected.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    The name could be kept of course but it reflects the rightwing of the Tories splitting off to join Carswellite UKIP in the Freedom Party or Woolfeite UKIP in the Patriots Party. Labour will also split, with the Corbynites in the Solidarity Party (perhaps with the Greens eventually too) while moderate Labour joins with the LDs in the Progressive Party
    It just won't happen because of FPTP.
    Which it seems unlikely the Tories will be in the mood to change, if the fevered dreams of 10-15 more years are realised.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    john_zims said:

    @RobD

    'Because then both chambers will be elected.'

    On that basis a Parish council should have the same powers as a County council as they are both elected.

    Unless i've missed something massive and they are now bicameral, your point does not stand.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2016
    murali_s said:

    runnymede said:

    murali_s said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    We should learn something here

    How to stop the boats - Australian style..... https://t.co/w7qnmUqX6R

    I bloody well hope not. We are better than this...
    The Aussies have got it right
    Your opinion. Most compassionate and civilised people understand that the Aussie approach is thoroughly despicable. Ask Human Rights Watch and the like.
    Wrong. - The Aussie approach is preventing thousands of deaths by drowning. If the 'morally right' approach is to encourage more to attempt the crossing and more to drown in the attempt then your interpretation of what is despicable, is a banana.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,119

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    It has too much baggage.
    Bring back the Levellers, and the Whigs.
    Modernist....

    Populares vs Optimates
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    The name could be kept of course but it reflects the rightwing of the Tories splitting off to join Carswellite UKIP in the Freedom Party or Woolfeite UKIP in the Patriots Party. Labour will also split, with the Corbynites in the Solidarity Party (perhaps with the Greens eventually too) while moderate Labour joins with the LDs in the Progressive Party
    It just won't happen because of FPTP.
    Which it seems unlikely the Tories will be in the mood to change, if the fevered dreams of 10-15 more years are realised.
    TSE just cried a little....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    It has too much baggage.
    Bring back the Levellers, and the Whigs.
    Modernist....

    Populares vs Optimates
    Dat's foreigner talk though.
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    It has too much baggage.
    Bring back the Levellers, and the Whigs.
    Modernist....

    Populares vs Optimates
    Well that was my original choice, but I didn't want to embarrass those with a lack of knowledge about classical history, you know people like Morris Dancer...
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,119

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    It has too much baggage.
    Bring back the Levellers, and the Whigs.
    Modernist....

    Populares vs Optimates
    Well that was my original choice, but I didn't want to embarrass those with a lack of knowledge about classical history, you know people like Morris Dancer...
    Why did I just have a vision of the two of you bumping into each other on the Appian Way?...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    That's tautologous.

    Tories=Blairites=Israeli supporters

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @RobD

    'Unless i've missed something massive and they are now bicameral, your point does not stand'

    If the remit is restricted as it is now then it's no big deal.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Trump staging a recovery in betting markets, my view:

    There has been a stabilization of Hillary's lead at around 5 points in my daily tracking average since Wednesday, and there is a picture emerging that Trump's campaign actually exists, so there is some good news for him that warrants that small recovery.


    Smith crashing again in betting markets, my view:

    I don't know why, the picture hasn't changed, Smith is a goner as usual but only now has the market found out about it ?

    Last info I had was Corbyn beating Smith by 60-25 two weeks ago by someone working at Smith's phonebanks, since then I can only imagine it's been down hill for Smith especially after a pretty bad performance in the debate.

    Anyway, it was always a mystery for me as to why was Smith regarded that high in the past on the markets.

    Just one election to go then until the possible death of Labour. Tim Montgomerie produced a projection for a realignment today which looks very possible
    https://twitter.com/montie/status/761940870568509441
    What's wrong with the name "Conservatives"?
    The name could be kept of course but it reflects the rightwing of the Tories splitting off to join Carswellite UKIP in the Freedom Party or Woolfeite UKIP in the Patriots Party. Labour will also split, with the Corbynites in the Solidarity Party (perhaps with the Greens eventually too) while moderate Labour joins with the LDs in the Progressive Party
    It just won't happen because of FPTP.
    Probably not unless we get PR but you never know if the hard left stay in control of Labour and May keeps the UK in the Single Market
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    john_zims said:

    @RobD

    'Unless i've missed something massive and they are now bicameral, your point does not stand'

    If the remit is restricted as it is now then it's no big deal.

    They can still frustrate the government, as has been seen in the last year or so. It'd only be a more frequent occurrence if they felt they had a democratic mandate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,840
    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    htps://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    Without any unkindness (or kindness) intended, that looks like a stock photo of a 'millennial who goes on marches a lot'
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    htps://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    Without any unkindness (or kindness) intended, that looks like a stock photo of a 'millennial who goes on marches a lot'
    No doubt what the person behind the twitter searched for :) the rest of the tweets are quite amusing.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @RobD


    'They can still frustrate the government, as has been seen in the last year or so. It'd only be a more frequent occurrence if they felt they had a democratic mandate.'

    That's OK they can block something,but only for a limited period of time & not a finance bill.



  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    john_zims said:

    @RobD


    'They can still frustrate the government, as has been seen in the last year or so. It'd only be a more frequent occurrence if they felt they had a democratic mandate.'

    That's OK they can block something,but only for a limited period of time & not a finance bill.



    They can still block changes like the welfare changes last year. I am not arguing they could, I'm saying that they would do it much more often.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    htps://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    Without any unkindness (or kindness) intended, that looks like a stock photo of a 'millennial who goes on marches a lot'
    Or what passes for a Corbynista sex symbol
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited August 2016

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    htps://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    Without any unkindness (or kindness) intended, that looks like a stock photo of a 'millennial who goes on marches a lot'
    No doubt what the person behind the twitter searched for :) the rest of the tweets are quite amusing.
    I started following just after it started up and cried with laughter several times already. It's such a rich vein of humour.

    As a comedy channel - Twitter is priceless*. I've had more chuckles today there for free than an entire season of Porridge.

    *I've spent so long on my phone that my little finger is sore holding it up. :weary:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    There was a spit image of that bloke in Totnes yesterday, wearing a RUN DMC T-shirt.

    I said to him I guess he was too old to have seen them live. Yeah, he said. Benefit of being an old bloke, I said. Saw them in '87 - with the Beastie Boys. Drove off in the soft-top Audi before his little head exploded and deposited dreads all over the interior....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,716

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    There was a spit image of that bloke in Totnes yesterday, wearing a RUN DMC T-shirt.

    I said to him I guess he was too old to have seen them live. Yeah, he said. Benefit of being an old bloke, I said. Saw them in '87 - with the Beastie Boys. Drove off in the soft-top Audi before his little head exploded and deposited dreads all over the interior....
    Am sure you made a lasting impression
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    There was a spit image of that bloke in Totnes yesterday, wearing a RUN DMC T-shirt.

    I said to him I guess he was too old to have seen them live. Yeah, he said. Benefit of being an old bloke, I said. Saw them in '87 - with the Beastie Boys. Drove off in the soft-top Audi before his little head exploded and deposited dreads all over the interior....
    :lol:

    Hope you were wearing your stolen VW grill badge.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited August 2016

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    There was a spit image of that bloke in Totnes yesterday, wearing a RUN DMC T-shirt.

    I said to him I guess he was too old to have seen them live. Yeah, he said. Benefit of being an old bloke, I said. Saw them in '87 - with the Beastie Boys. Drove off in the soft-top Audi before his little head exploded and deposited dreads all over the interior....
    A white guy with dreads and a RUN DMC T-shit, serious cultural appropriation foul....

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/31/living/white-dreadlocks-cultural-appropriation-feat/
  • rcs1000 said:

    Following on from the last thread on prisons.

    They work and are cost effective - even when only used on the level of preventing crime.

    Commonly, the anti-prison advocates state that it costs 30K to lock someone up for a year - then contrast that with the petty amounts stolen etc.

    In fact, the cost of crime is vastly more than the 20 quid someone gets for a stolen car stereo or whatever. Even a simple magistrates court case - say a basic theft - will cost 5 figures... lawyers, police time, witness time, effects on victims etc.

    So, locking up the habitual criminals saves a fortune. Nearly all the crime that affects people in an every day way is done by serial offenders.

    One of the reasons for the big drop in crime was sneaking through the coalition (under the Lib Dems noses) the following measure - stopping bail for those caught committing crimes *while on bail*. Previously, the habituals would be caught, bailed, caught, bailed etc. Some of them achieved double digit levels of bail, previously.

    While I agree with your premise (that we should prevent crime even if it is net negative in near term costs) I don't believe for a second that a simple magistrate case costs anything like £10k. Legal aid pays something like £300 for whole day defences, the prosecution isn't paid much more, and magistrates get next to nothing
    Legal aid pays that - but administering the legal aid? A thick, badly written file of evidence doesn't just write itself... Building cost, security, police time... It is startling the ways costs mount up. The costs you see are just the visible portion of the iceberg. Those office blocks of civil servants don't pay for themselves...

    Divy up the costs of the justice system per case and you will see what I mean.
    So far I seem to have found that we are spending 17.1 billion on the criminal justice system

    https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/The-Criminal-Justice-system-landscape-review-summary1.pdf

    from here

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/471625/costs-per-place.pdf

    prison is

    £2,804,394,939, so take that off

    from

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533097/criminal-court-statistics-jan-mar-2016.pdf

    page 8 ....

    we have 304,300 magistrates court cases and 46,500 in Crown court ?? Crudely add that together (yes, I know, all cases start in the magistrates court)

    So we end up with 40K per case.

    OK - what did I do wrong?
    You have taken the annual budget and divided it by the number of cases in 3 months. So, using these figures, it should be around £10k per case.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited August 2016
    There is a fairly popular US rapper that I bet confuses the s##t out of the sort of social justice warriors who get upset about things like dreads.

    He is a blind white albino Muslim convert, married to a Puerto Rican, who raps for a living.

    All their putting people in boxes is slightly screwed by this guy...
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    HYUFD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lolz

    Momentum Matches
    Agreed, we have love for all regardless of race, creed, nationality or belief*
    *Except Tories, Israelis + Blairites https://t.co/AJ2n6dSe7S

    https://twitter.com/MomentumMatches/status/761570143654871042
    There was a spit image of that bloke in Totnes yesterday, wearing a RUN DMC T-shirt.

    I said to him I guess he was too old to have seen them live. Yeah, he said. Benefit of being an old bloke, I said. Saw them in '87 - with the Beastie Boys. Drove off in the soft-top Audi before his little head exploded and deposited dreads all over the interior....
    A white guy with dreads and a RUN DMC T-shit, serious cultural appropriation foul....

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/31/living/white-dreadlocks-cultural-appropriation-feat/
    That link is quite bizarre and a real eye-opener in to why society is going to the dogs.

    It's a haircut, for goodness sakes, nothing more or less.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited August 2016
    There are unconfirmed stories that IS have themselves a handy bit of publicity in the form of a US soldier in Afghanistan. Based on his standard issue weapon there is a fair chance he is a special operations bod. Only one unknown, was the guy alive or dead when IS got to him.

    Update, sources say the guy is accounted for. One lucky boy if he is.

    Jihadis love a good set piece video kill , hence their keenness to get hold of someone in the UK.
  • Y0kel said:

    There are unconfirmed stories that IS have themselves a handy bit of publicity in the form of a US soldier in Afghanistan. Based on his standard issue weapon there is a fair chance he is a special operations bod. Only one unknown, was the guy alive or dead when IS got to him.

    Update, sources say the guy is accounted for. One lucky boy if he is.

    Jihadis love a good set piece video kill , hence their keenness to get hold of someone in the UK.

    I thought it was the US killing that looked like video games?
This discussion has been closed.