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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Diana James now 75% favourite to be next UKIP leader

After a big day of developments in the UKIP leadership race Diana James now 75% Betfair favourite to succeed Farage pic.twitter.com/N8bkUOWUqM

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foxinsoxuk

First to say I was laying Woolfe like a few other PBers...

Verulamius

Secondish

Toms

I'm not bothered who they choose.
Atavistic provincialism has won.
But my understanding is that Brexit is only advisory.
If so, what a way to run things.

FrancisUrquhart

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Speedy

"Some reports that the Gambling Commission investigating unusual betting activity on markets relating to the Next UKIP Leader."

Someone from inside UKIP manipulating the leadership race to win money on the betting markets ?

Ishmael_X

"Does anybody know what this is about?"

Has a sort of "if so, see me in my study after prayers, or the whole school will be kept in" sound about it.

Casino_Royale

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

Sean_F

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

tlg86

Speedy said:

"Some reports that the Gambling Commission investigating unusual betting activity on markets relating to the Next UKIP Leader."

Someone from inside UKIP manipulating the leadership race to win money on the betting markets ?

Well it's one way to fund a party I suppsoe. What exactly can the gambling commission do? It's not like footballers rigging a match is it? Insider trading it may be, but what's special about this? It goes on all of the time.

GIN1138

EU Go Girl!

John_M

On UKIP's political spectrum of fruitcake to fruitloop, where is James located, please? I need to know if I need extra worry beads.

Speedy

Right on time with my analysis about the polling picture post convention:

SurveyUSA, North Carolina

Trump 46 -3
Hillary 42 nc
Johnson 6 +6

https://www.nccivitas.org/2016/civitas-releases-post-conventions-survey-of-north-carolina-voters/

The previous SurveyUSA poll for N.C. was back in early March though, and didn't include Johnson.

But the definitive pollster for N.C. is PPP, only if they say too that Trump has a lead in N.C. I would believe it.

HYUFD

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

foxinsoxuk

Casino_Royale said:

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

This is FPTP with six candidates. James is best known but there is an unknown selectorate and the possibility of split votes. Having laid Woolfe I am in a comfortably green position and am now laying James. Her odds are too short.

Broughton is the dark horse.

dodrade

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why do the IOC hate squash so much? At this rate wife carrying will get into the Olympics before they will.

John_M

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Casino_Royale

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

This is FPTP with six candidates. James is best known but there is an unknown selectorate and the possibility of split votes. Having laid Woolfe I am in a comfortably green position and am now laying James. Her odds are too short.

Broughton is the dark horse.

Do you have a link to the full UKIP rules on this?

tlg86

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

This is FPTP with six candidates. James is best known but there is an unknown selectorate and the possibility of split votes. Having laid Woolfe I am in a comfortably green position and am now laying James. Her odds are too short.

Broughton is the dark horse.

FWIW Woolfe said he was backing a man but wouldn't say which one.

MikeL

Her name is Diane James.

Not Diana James.

HYUFD

If James does win she needs to be careful that she does not allow Carswell to set the agenda, if he does UKIP will swiftly lose relevance and Farage will then strike with a party of his own

oxfordsimon

I may be completely wrong - but my suspicion is that UKIP is probably going to prove to be misogynistic when it comes to (s)electing a leader. James might have a profile - but will she be able to persuade people to back her?

Speedy

MikeL said:

Her name is Diane James.

Not Diana James.

Don't spoil the Daily Express headline.

tlg86

Last minute winner for Ajax, meaning City could get Roma.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

nunu

May should go in 2017.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36958155

nunu

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/voters-head-polls-south-african-105352848.html?client=ms-android-oneplus

John_M

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

Casino_Royale

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

PrinceofTaranto

oxfordsimon said:

I may be completely wrong - but my suspicion is that UKIP is probably going to prove to be misogynistic when it comes to (s)electing a leader. James might have a profile - but will she be able to persuade people to back her?

You obviously don't understand UKIP.Diane James is the stand by candidate to step into Steven Woolfe's shoes from the Farage wing .The great majority of UKIP membership are incandescent with rage that Woolfe has been excluded on a technicality and in the full knowledge that he would have been heading to well over 50% of the vote in the contest. Those that have not resigned and who would have supported Steven will vote for Diane James then the bloodletting will begin.

EPG

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

"Backstabbing cosmopolitan intellectual traitors" would be a less-euphemistic way to put it.

runnymede

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

Yes that's right.

HYUFD

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

May will give it to them anyway, with a few controls

John_M

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

FrancisUrquhart

dodrade said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why do the IOC hate squash so much? At this rate wife carrying will get into the Olympics before they will.

I don't really understand the choices in Olympic sports. Golf, rugby, tennis, football, which all pros play in but isn't the pinnacle of their sport, but then others sports don't get a look in.

nunu

HYUFD said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

May will give it to them anyway, with a few controls

Why not we have visa free travel with non E.U countries big deal.

HYUFD

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Although both Switzerland and Norway are members of the Single Market

foxinsoxuk

Casino_Royale said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

This is FPTP with six candidates. James is best known but there is an unknown selectorate and the possibility of split votes. Having laid Woolfe I am in a comfortably green position and am now laying James. Her odds are too short.

Broughton is the dark horse.

Do you have a link to the full UKIP rules on this?

Afraid not, but 6 runners each with unknown form in a FPTP election is wide open.

Casino_Royale

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Casino_Royale

Things that wouldn't have happened without the EU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_innovations_and_discoveries

EPG

HYUFD said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Although both Switzerland and Norway are members of the Single Market

Foreigner-loving traitors! They must be cosmopolitans who despise their fellow countrymen.

John_M

HYUFD said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Although both Switzerland and Norway are members of the Single Market

I think we all know our onions about the various country memberships, with the possible exception of Liam Fox. There was a lovely infographic on Twitter, I'll see if I can dig it out.

HurstLlama

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

If there are no stamps in the passport then no one will know the date of entry. Stamping passports used to be the norm and still is for most countries in the world. What is the problem with it?

TheScreamingEagles

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

Laying James might be a good idea (words I never thought I'd write)

If Nigel unresigns, or the whole leadership campaign unravels or takes an unexpected turn, her price could dramatically lengthen.

I'm not seeing any particular information to justify such a price, so I've just risked £20 on her failure.

This is FPTP with six candidates. James is best known but there is an unknown selectorate and the possibility of split votes. Having laid Woolfe I am in a comfortably green position and am now laying James. Her odds are too short.

Broughton is the dark horse.

Do you have a link to the full UKIP rules on this?

Afraid not, but 6 runners each with unknown form in a FPTP election is wide open.

So the winner could win with just 16.67% of the vote?

AV was invented to stop outrages like this.

timmo

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why not Squash?

EPG

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

John_M

Here it is:

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/759456154623836160

John_M

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm incredibly proud of the Empire. The reason the examples stop in the 60s is because we joined the EU in '73. Hence a bit hard to provide more modern ones.

foxinsoxuk

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

It was PBers who were coming out with workfare plans to move the workless ones out into the fields in a Year Zero style move!

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

"Backstabbing cosmopolitan intellectual traitors" would be a less-euphemistic way to put it.

It does sound rather like Mussolini how you put it!

But yes, I do feel stripped of part of my European identity by Brexit, as does all the rest of the Fox family (barring Granny and Granpa Fox!).

We will get used to it, and in practice Brexit will mostly look like "the British Sausage" that got Hacker the PM job.

nunu

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Although both Switzerland and Norway are members of the Single Market

Foreigner-loving traitors! They must be cosmopolitans who despise their fellow countrymen.

You know Switzerland voted in a referendum to control immigration from the E.U.

AndreaParma_82

Supporting nominations tonight

Nottingham South: Owen Smith
Finchley and Golders Green: Smith

Islington South: Jeremy Corbyn 121 Owen Smith 64
New Forest East: Jeremy Corbyn
Bath: Jeremy Corbyn
Leeds East: Jeremy Corbyn 75 Owen Smith 9 Abstentions 3
Halton: Jeremy Corbyn
Delyn: Jeremy Corbyn
West Suffolk: Jeremy Corbyn
Eastleigh: Jeremy Corbyn 35 Smith 8
Worthing West: Corbyn 42 Smith 11

Scott_P

@STJamesl: Wow - a third of Corbyn's clp want him out as leader https://t.co/hqvys27CFv

foxinsoxuk

BTW Musa ripped up Barca with a brace of great goals and MOTM.

80/1 with Skybet for TGS. Worth an ew £5 I thought.

TheScreamingEagles

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

AndreaParma_82

that's Thornberry's CLP...

Scott_P said:

@STJamesl: Wow - a third of Corbyn's clp want him out as leader https://t.co/hqvys27CFv

Scott_P

AndreaParma_82 said:

that's Thornberry's CLP...

Oh, well that's OK then

HYUFD

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

John_M said:

HYUFD said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

Or indeed Switzerland and Norway

You have to choose between the EU or Zimbabwe. Apparently.

Although both Switzerland and Norway are members of the Single Market

Foreigner-loving traitors! They must be cosmopolitans who despise their fellow countrymen.

Indeed and the fact Switzerland looks likely to get some controls on free movement from the EU suggests a deal can be done

foxinsoxuk

AndreaParma_82 said:

that's Thornberry's CLP...

Scott_P said:

@STJamesl: Wow - a third of Corbyn's clp want him out as leader https://t.co/hqvys27CFv

Next door though.

Casino_Royale

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I am proud of both.

AndreaParma_82

So far

Corbyn 76 CLPs
Smith 17 CLPs

HYUFD

AndreaParma_82 said:

Supporting nominations tonight

Nottingham South: Owen Smith
Finchley and Golders Green: Smith

Islington South: Jeremy Corbyn 121 Owen Smith 64
New Forest East: Jeremy Corbyn
Bath: Jeremy Corbyn
Leeds East: Jeremy Corbyn 75 Owen Smith 9 Abstentions 3
Halton: Jeremy Corbyn
Delyn: Jeremy Corbyn
West Suffolk: Jeremy Corbyn
Eastleigh: Jeremy Corbyn 35 Smith 8
Worthing West: Corbyn 42 Smith 11

Enfield will also have a big turnout for Corbyn from what I overheard from a Corbynista in the office today

MTimT

dodrade said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why do the IOC hate squash so much? At this rate wife carrying will get into the Olympics before they will.

Best guesses:
1. Costs - will require custom-built facilities in most new Olympics venues
2. Hard to sell large numbers of tickets to watch

MarkSenior

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

kle4

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of.

Well, bits of it could be (and it was far from the worst example of its kind). It was an impressive achievement however, given most nations have at one time or another dominated, exploited and oppressed others, and in fact a lot have been formed that way so it wasn't an unusual example of its kind, just a pretty successful one. And it could have had worse legacies too. Not something most would approve of today, the aim of empire that is (we generally frown on conquest thesedays, but most nations used their power if they had it), but it was not without worth either.

oxfordsimon

AndreaParma_82 said:

Supporting nominations tonight

Nottingham South: Owen Smith
Finchley and Golders Green: Smith

Islington South: Jeremy Corbyn 121 Owen Smith 64
New Forest East: Jeremy Corbyn
Bath: Jeremy Corbyn
Leeds East: Jeremy Corbyn 75 Owen Smith 9 Abstentions 3
Halton: Jeremy Corbyn
Delyn: Jeremy Corbyn
West Suffolk: Jeremy Corbyn
Eastleigh: Jeremy Corbyn 35 Smith 8
Worthing West: Corbyn 42 Smith 11

With that level of support, why doesn't Smith just throw in the towel now? He is clearly not resonating. To persist just makes things worse for him.

Labour is not yet ready to accept reality. Smith should walk away now.

EPG

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

I suppose it was better than enduring recurring famine on the land. A cycle which continued with millions of deaths in India at least until the late 40s, no coincidence.

AndreaParma_82

A couple of ward branches in Islington North actually failed to vote the motion of confidence in JC last month.
London is probably the most anti Corbyn territory now.

The CLPs in hopeless seats are the ones coming out strongly for Corbyn.

Casino_Royale

HurstLlama said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

If there are no stamps in the passport then no one will know the date of entry. Stamping passports used to be the norm and still is for most countries in the world. What is the problem with it?

I don't think visas will be necessary. And no-one serious does. We'll wave the passport and walk through.

But, like in Switzerland, if you say "stamp, please?", the nice man might give you one, if he hasn't anything better to do.

Scott_P

AndreaParma_82 said:

The CLPs in hopeless seats are the ones coming out strongly for Corbyn.

TheScreamingEagles

Just think, no British Empire, no me in this country.

Huzzah for the Empire.

MTimT

FrancisUrquhart said:

dodrade said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why do the IOC hate squash so much? At this rate wife carrying will get into the Olympics before they will.

I don't really understand the choices in Olympic sports. Golf, rugby, tennis, football, which all pros play in but isn't the pinnacle of their sport, but then others sports don't get a look in.

It's all about the Benjamins

Casino_Royale

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

Just got back from Thailand a few weeks ago: no visa required.

I did get a nice entry and exit stamp though.

John_M

TheScreamingEagles said:

Just think, no British Empire, no me in this country.

Huzzah for the Empire.

Possibly no Sunil either. Unthinkable.

AndreaParma_82

Out of the 17 nominations for Smith, 9 are in London

Finchley
Streatham
West Ham
Westminster North
Richmond Park
Battersea
Vauxhall
Bethnal Green
Wimbledon

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

Exactly so. My grandfather was immensely proud of the Indian soldiers and officers he worked with.

He was in the Indian Army throughout the war.

williamglenn

Trump raised $82m last month, mainly from small donors.

Casino_Royale

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

FrancisUrquhart

MTimT said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

dodrade said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Skateboarding, surfing and climbing are among five new sports confirmed for the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.

Karate and baseball/softball have also been added by the International Olympic Committee

Why do the IOC hate squash so much? At this rate wife carrying will get into the Olympics before they will.

I don't really understand the choices in Olympic sports. Golf, rugby, tennis, football, which all pros play in but isn't the pinnacle of their sport, but then others sports don't get a look in.

It's all about the Benjamins

What has hogan, crenshaw et al. got to do with it ;-)

Casino_Royale

EPG said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

I suppose it was better than enduring recurring famine on the land. A cycle which continued with millions of deaths in India at least until the late 40s, no coincidence.

Leave Marx at home, and try reading this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Making-India-Untold-British-Enterprise/dp/1472924827

DanSmith

williamglenn said:

Trump raised $82m last month, mainly from small donors.

Wow, he's basically matched Clinton in terms of fundraising?

MTimT

HurstLlama said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

If there are no stamps in the passport then no one will know the date of entry. Stamping passports used to be the norm and still is for most countries in the world. What is the problem with it?

I have a greencard in the US, but my passport still got a stamp in it every time I entered the country until I got Global Entry, and still would without Global Entry. I really don't see the problem with a stamp, if no visa is required.

MarkSenior

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

John_M

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

Nobody has said that. At any time. Complete straw man. You must be a Lib Dem.

foxinsoxuk

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

Just got back from Thailand a few weeks ago: no visa required.

I did get a nice entry and exit stamp though.

A lot of countries will issue a free visa on arrival, stamped with how long you can stay. It is not a visa required before travel,:but still a visa.

Speedy

AndreaParma_82 said:

A couple of ward branches in Islington North actually failed to vote the motion of confidence in JC last month.
London is probably the most anti Corbyn territory now.

The CLPs in hopeless seats are the ones coming out strongly for Corbyn.

This connects a bit with this yougov poll about a potencial Labour split.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2xd8rujb3m/Demo Report_02-Aug-2016_Website.pdf

An SDP like split will only affect Labour and the LD and would battle UKIP for 3rd place.

It would only take 1/4 of the Labour vote, 1/4 of the LD vote, 1/7th of the SNP vote and almost zero from everyone else.

It's highest share by far would be 19% in London, it would be a very London-centric party.

A split of Momentum would be bigger, getting almost half of the Labour vote while not affecting any other party apart from the SNP (it takes 1/6th of the SNP vote) and rivaling Labour for second place.

It's strongest areas would be London with 18% and the North with 17%.

In every scenario both splinters would tie each other in scotland, getting 10% each, the splinter getting it almost exclusively from the SNP.

HurstLlama

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

The indian component of the British Indian Army in WW2 remains the largest volunteer force in History. All the more remarkable given that India was independent two years after the war ended.

One should also not forget the Indian troops that served in WW1, though most people have. Particular notice should be paid to the Indian infantry who served with great distinction on the Western front in 1914/15 but who did not get the recognition they deserved (in fact far from it) by the High Command at the time.

Brighton of course has a particular affinity with those WW1 troops as it provided the military hospitals (including the Brighton Pavilion) for wounded indian soldiers. A fact commemorated by the India Gate to the Pavilion and the Chattri memorial up on the South Downs where soldiers who died of their wounds were cremated (muslims were taken to the mosque in Woking, Surrey for burial). One day I will get around to writing up my research into the Brighton Hospitals, a story which my surprise many.

foxinsoxuk

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

Shh. You will upset the PB League of Empire Loyalists (cloud cuckooland branch)

Casino_Royale

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

No-one is saying we will.

We are contesting we will become Bangladesh.

Dromedary

Andrew Buncombe at the Independent has finally twigged that Trump may drop out.

The Betfair markets in Kasich, Cruz, Pence and Ryan (but not in Rubio and Bush) are becoming more lively.

MarkSenior

John_M said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

Nobody has said that. At any time. Complete straw man. You must be a Lib Dem.

Well it is the impression many would get by reading Casino Royale's posts for example .

Sean_F

EPG said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

I suppose it was better than enduring recurring famine on the land. A cycle which continued with millions of deaths in India at least until the late 40s, no coincidence.

Indian soldiers were intensely proud to be part of the army.

But, you know what. It's great that your worst nightmare - Brexit - has come to pass

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

I'm glad that people like you and EPG lost, on 23rd June. Permanently, and irrevocably.

John_M

foxinsoxuk said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

Shh. You will upset the PB League of Empire Loyalists (cloud cuckooland branch)

Presumably this is the line Lib Dems use on each other to bolster morale. So sad.

Casino_Royale

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

Just got back from Thailand a few weeks ago: no visa required.

I did get a nice entry and exit stamp though.

A lot of countries will issue a free visa on arrival, stamped with how long you can stay. It is not a visa required before travel,:but still a visa.

But does it matter?

We are outside Schengen. I have to queue at the UK border both in/out anyone even *inside* the EU where the UK border officials run digital checks, and rightly so.

In the v.unlikely event the EU does require a "visa" (assuming Schengen and the EU both stay "as is") everything stays the same, except I get a stamp.

Honestly, of all the things to worry about as a Remainer, this isn't one of them.

nunu

Can anyone here give context into the South Africa local elections ?
http://www.news24.com/elections/live/live-sa-votes-in-2016-local-government-elections-20160802

foxinsoxuk

Dromedary said:

Andrew Buncombe at the Independent has finally twigged that Trump may drop out.

The Betfair markets in Kasich, Cruz, Pence and Ryan (but not in Rubio and Bush) are becoming more lively.

If Trump (or Clinton) dies or drops out - what is the procedure for a new candidate?

Casino_Royale

HurstLlama said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and a population back working in the fields like pre Industrial Britain or Bangla Desh today ."

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

One should also not forget the Indian troops that served in WW1, though most people have. Particular notice should be paid to the Indian infantry who served with great distinction on the Western front in 1914/15 but who did not get the recognition they deserved (in fact far from it) by the High Command at the time.

Brighton of course has a particular affinity with those WW1 troops as it provided the military hospitals (including the Brighton Pavilion) for wounded indian soldiers. A fact commemorated by the India Gate to the Pavilion and the Chattri memorial up on the South Downs where soldiers who died of their wounds were cremated (muslims were taken to the mosque in Woking, Surrey for burial). One day I will get around to writing up my research into the Brighton Hospitals, a story which my surprise many.

This really bothers me.

You are quite right, and Indian soldiers made huge sacrifices on the Western Front.

Even today, this is little known.

Speedy

williamglenn said:

Trump raised $82m last month, mainly from small donors.

He discovered the virtues of mass small donations from Sanders and Ron Paul.

Hillary will probably spend that much on TV advertising this month alone.

foxinsoxuk

Casino_Royale said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

Just got back from Thailand a few weeks ago: no visa required.

I did get a nice entry and exit stamp though.

A lot of countries will issue a free visa on arrival, stamped with how long you can stay. It is not a visa required before travel,:but still a visa.

But does it matter?

We are outside Schengen. I have to queue at the UK border both in/out anyone even *inside* the EU where the UK border officials run digital checks, and rightly so.

In the v.unlikely event the EU does require a "visa" (assuming Schengen and the EU both stay "as is") everything stays the same, except I get a stamp.

Honestly, of all the things to worry about as a Remainer, this isn't one of them.

Just being pedantic about visas.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

EPG said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

EPG said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

The Empire is hardly something to be proud of. Erm or James Bond! Can do better than an alcoholic misogynist? (Can do better than wanting to go back to the 60s?)

I'm very proud of the Empire.

Ask yourself this, why was the largest volunteer army in history, the British Indian Army? 3 million Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis decided to fight for their Emperor, the country that was their colonial masters.

I suppose it was better than enduring recurring famine on the land. A cycle which continued with millions of deaths in India at least until the late 40s, no coincidence.

Indian soldiers were intensely proud to be part of the army.

But, you know what. It's great that your worst nightmare - Brexit - has come to pass

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

MarkSenior said:

Casino_Royale said:

@MarkSenior

"So we can sum up pb Brexiteers vision of post EU UK as having a currency worth less than the Bangla Deshi Taka and

Seriously, Mark, WTF?

Do you know Britain was the first nation in history to industralise, made countless scientific and technical discoveries, built the greatest empire the world has ever seen, spread its ideas and values throughout the globe, stood up, fought and won two world wars, and achieved the British cultural renaissance of the 1960s, including the Beatles, James Bond and one world cup, without any help from the EU?

Perhaps not.

Yes of course that is British history , just as before that there were other great empires Roman , that of Charlemagne , Byzantine and Ottoman to name a few . Where are these empires today ? Even Britain in the 1950s and 1960s had a substantial industrial base with substantial ship building and steel industries and mineral resources of coal North Sea Gas and later oil . Today we have little of those left . The future will belong to countries such as Australia and Canada with substantial mineral resources self sufficient in food production.

So your argument is that Britain was doomed by 1973, the EU saved us, and without it we are nothing?

Well, it's a view.

A more realistic view than thinking we can return to a golden past dreaming of reindustrialisation and a new Empire .

I'm glad that people like you and EPG lost, on 23rd June. Permanently, and irrevocably.

Say it as it is, Sean ;-)

Casino_Royale

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

John_M said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

FPT, the idea that the UK outside the EU would be some kind of third world country shows a remarkable lack of confidence in our abilities. I see no reason at all why we can't be as successful as countries like Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand, or Canada.

I think that's what a certain type of Remainer fears the most.

You see, it's not really about economic or political success. It's the fact the UK's governance will be almost solely national, rather than international, and that offends those who define their identity against what they see as the parochial, insular and uncosmopolitan nature of most 'domestic' Brits.

StrongerIn have launched a petition demanding visa-free travel to EU27 countries. Bless.

No visas will be required under any Brexit scenario.

I think what might have kicked this off is the idea of getting "stamps" in our new blue passports, if we get them back.

Simple solution: visa free. If you're desperate for a souvenir stamp, and you ask the customs office really nicely, you might get one.

I made the point that we have VoA or VF arrangements with 175 countries. The UN rate our passport #1 for mobility. if we can manage that kind of scheme for sub-saharan Africa, I daresay we can manage for France & Spain et al.

Just got back from Thailand a few weeks ago: no visa required.

I did get a nice entry and exit stamp though.

A lot of countries will issue a free visa on arrival, stamped with how long you can stay. It is not a visa required before travel,:but still a visa.

But does it matter?

We are outside Schengen. I have to queue at the UK border both in/out anyone even *inside* the EU where the UK border officials run digital checks, and rightly so.

In the v.unlikely event the EU does require a "visa" (assuming Schengen and the EU both stay "as is") everything stays the same, except I get a stamp.

Honestly, of all the things to worry about as a Remainer, this isn't one of them.

Just being pedantic about visas.

You should know by now: pedants are most unwelcome on this site.

John_M

My parting shot for tonight. A brief excerpt from Robert Tombs (great, great history btw, only a tenner on Kindle)

" Nor has England declined economically: by the late 1950s and 1960s it was of course richer than ever. The change has been that a few other countries have caught up. This is not a quibble, but a fundamental difference of analysis, as catching up with the pioneers is a normal feature of economic modernization, as developing countries attract foreign investment and import the latest technology. England remains, as in 1713, among the richest countries in the world - in 2008, among populous countries, the United Kingdom was second only to the United States in gross per capita income.

Declinism has been our national narrative for several generations, a chorus of lamentation in a lucky country where life is safer, longer and more comfortable than ever in history. What would happen to our view of the past, and the present, if we abandoned this historical fit of the vapours? Surely it would permit a calmer, more rational analysis of our situation and our needs."