Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
If it is that bad, sure, but I expect it will look better than that. That it will be a fudge is pretty certain, but I don't see why May would appoint Fox and Davis in the first place if she did not intend at least a fudge that was more acceptable to HardBrexiteers than SoftBrexiteers.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
Do you think so?
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
Errr, Fox's department is not involved in doing deals with the EU.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
Do you think so?
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Or am I wrong?
If the deal May gets is *worse* than Cameron's renegotiation in Feb this year (which even I think is v.unlikely) then, yes, she'd be in very serious trouble.
She has to (a) formally split from the EU (b) keep the union together (c) keep her party together (d) minimise economic disruption, and, (e) deliver something on migration
She has a lot of flexibility around how she does that, and to what extent.
If I were her I wouldn't worry too much about Ireland (a solution will be found and Martin McGuiness holds no veto on that) and go over the head of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP to make a very attractive direct offer to the Scottish people.
Arch prat Piers Morgan has joined the Putin love in: Piers Morgan @piersmorgan I'd feel very comfortable with a U.S. president who regularly dines with Putin. shina balogun @Govshina @piersmorgan God is on Hillary's side. Mr Trrump is a devil who wants to dine with a dictator like Putin
Have you considered that some friendly gestures might curb Putin better than all the past attitudes?
Fox jr and fellow students are becoming much more open to the LDs, in part because the fees generation has moved on, and fees are the new normal, but also they feel they have had their revenge in 2015. There is a lot of youth support for the LDs unreserved pro-Remain position and anti-Iraq war too. It will not be a quick return to parliament, but may not be as far off as it seemed a year ago. Brexit and the seppuko of the Labour Party are having an effect.
Lib Dem revival is not shown by the polls. Lib Dems stuck at 8%.
But Lib Dems doing well in local government byelections. It shows the local organisation is starting to improve. Opinion polls will follow, never fear.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
Do you think so?
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Or am I wrong?
The 'credible alternative' is simply to leave, and put up with a 4% increase in the price of brie. What have we become when we're whimpering like toddlers when we've not even stuck a toe out of the door?
Fox jr and fellow students are becoming much more open to the LDs, in part because the fees generation has moved on, and fees are the new normal, but also they feel they have had their revenge in 2015. There is a lot of youth support for the LDs unreserved pro-Remain position and anti-Iraq war too. It will not be a quick return to parliament, but may not be as far off as it seemed a year ago. Brexit and the seppuko of the Labour Party are having an effect.
Lib Dem revival is not shown by the polls. Lib Dems stuck at 8%.
But Lib Dems doing well in local government byelections. It shows the local organisation is starting to improve. Opinion polls will follow, never fear.
This is a spoof post, right?
Has anyone ever seen @IOS and @PCLipp in the same room? Just askin'.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Well it's certainly true the media don't appear to understand the difference between the EEA and the customs union.
We've been debating this issue for many weeks now and the levels of ignorance remain absolutely staggering.
The media, aside from a handful of very smart journalists (and it really is a handful), know very little.
That's why I come here.
I'm afraid there is masses of ignorance on here as well. And vast oceans of spin.
Fox jr and fellow students are becoming much more open to the LDs, in part because the fees generation has moved on, and fees are the new normal, but also they feel they have had their revenge in 2015. There is a lot of youth support for the LDs unreserved pro-Remain position and anti-Iraq war too. It will not be a quick return to parliament, but may not be as far off as it seemed a year ago. Brexit and the seppuko of the Labour Party are having an effect.
Lib Dem revival is not shown by the polls. Lib Dems stuck at 8%.
But Lib Dems doing well in local government byelections. It shows the local organisation is starting to improve. Opinion polls will follow, never fear.
This is a spoof post, right?
Doing well in local by-elections is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for a libdem revival.
Are there any Muslim countries that are a - prosperous and successful b - relatively non corrupt
Singapore
Is Singapore Muslim?
No. It's a real melange of religions. If it's anything it's Buddhist. Micro-states don't count, they can be used to prove anything. For example, Luxembourg is an example of a multi-cultural success story with 44.5% immigrants.
Luxembourg also receives more EU income per capita (net) than any other member. Which may be another reason that the over-promoted town mayor running the EU doesn't understand the problem.
Fox jr and fellow students are becoming much more open to the LDs, in part because the fees generation has moved on, and fees are the new normal, but also they feel they have had their revenge in 2015. There is a lot of youth support for the LDs unreserved pro-Remain position and anti-Iraq war too. It will not be a quick return to parliament, but may not be as far off as it seemed a year ago. Brexit and the seppuko of the Labour Party are having an effect.
Lib Dem revival is not shown by the polls. Lib Dems stuck at 8%.
But Lib Dems doing well in local government byelections. It shows the local organisation is starting to improve. Opinion polls will follow, never fear.
This is a spoof post, right?
Has anyone ever seen @IOS and @PCLipp in the same room? Just askin'.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
Do you think so?
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Or am I wrong?
If the deal May gets is *worse* than Cameron's renegotiation in Feb this year (which even I think is v.unlikely) then, yes, she'd be in very serious trouble.
She has to (a) formally split from the EU (b) keep the union together (c) keep her party together (d) minimise economic disruption, and, (e) deliver something on migration
She has a lot of flexibility around how she does that, and to what extent.
If I were her I wouldn't worry too much about Ireland (a solution will be found and Martin McGuiness holds no veto on that) and go over the head of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP to make a very attractive direct offer to the Scottish people.
Sorry, you were referring to the possibility of a Cameron "deal". It won't look anything like that. I agree mostly with your points, although I think the risk of Scotland leaving the Union is quite high.
Are there any Muslim countries that are a - prosperous and successful b - relatively non corrupt
Singapore
Is Singapore Muslim?
No. It's a real melange of religions. If it's anything it's Buddhist. Micro-states don't count, they can be used to prove anything. For example, Luxembourg is an example of a multi-cultural success story with 44.5% immigrants.
Luxembourg also receives more EU income per capita (net) than any other member. Which may be another reason that the over-promoted town mayor running the EU doesn't understand the problem.
Brunei does even better, but it's almost solely oil based and is a micro-state. Oman's wealth is partly but far from wholly oil-based.
Thanks, good example. Bet it was a bit of a struggle to find though and I think I've demonstrated my point
Of the top 10 most corrupt, all but two are Islamic. But is this an issue with Islam, or just a feature of a particularly terrible part of the world? Put another way, if Islam had never happened - and these countries were whatever religion was there beforehand - would they still be corrupt, violent, ultra-conservative, etc, but worship a different god, equally angrily? I'm not attempting to wring hands here - a genuine open question to which I don't know the answer.
Arch prat Piers Morgan has joined the Putin love in: Piers Morgan @piersmorgan I'd feel very comfortable with a U.S. president who regularly dines with Putin. shina balogun @Govshina @piersmorgan God is on Hillary's side. Mr Trrump is a devil who wants to dine with a dictator like Putin
Have you considered that some friendly gestures might curb Putin better than all the past attitudes?
No. I don't believe in appeasement.
He's a truly nasty piece of work who only understands and respects one thing.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
If you are right, May's Government will fall.
Do you think so?
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Or am I wrong?
If the deal May gets is *worse* than Cameron's renegotiation in Feb this year (which even I think is v.unlikely) then, yes, she'd be in very serious trouble.
She has to (a) formally split from the EU (b) keep the union together (c) keep her party together (d) minimise economic disruption, and, (e) deliver something on migration
She has a lot of flexibility around how she does that, and to what extent.
If I were her I wouldn't worry too much about Ireland (a solution will be found and Martin McGuiness holds no veto on that) and go over the head of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP to make a very attractive direct offer to the Scottish people.
Sorry, you were referring to the possibility of a Cameron "deal". It won't look anything like that. I agree mostly with your points, although I think the risk of Scotland leaving the Union is quite high.
Sturgeon and the SNP to be love-bombed. Given some nice Brexit goodies to take back. Given a new role in a sort of 'Council of the Isles' on foreign policy, place on trade delegations etc. It's about Scotland being respected, and seeing itself as being respected. Teresa seems to know that.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
It is worth noting that the sanctions available to the EU against Poland in relation to this matter are set out in Article 7 TEU. These are surrounded with a thicket of different qualified majorities etc and in at least 1 case requires unanimity of the European Council of which Poland is of course a member. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:12012M007
The bite after all this faff is the potential suspension of Poland's voting rights in the Ministers in Council. Not exactly sending the tanks in.
The irony of the unelected EU Commission acting as the arbiter and protector of democratic rights is hard to miss.
UAE would count - relatively non-corrupt - but same issue as Brunei: oil rich and basically a micro-state (actually several micro-states) - so not really answering your question in the spirit that I think you asked it.
Oh dear, desperate confusion here. There is no way the UK will staying the customs union, whatever version of Brexit is chosen. The customs union is one of the most objectionable parts of the EU - all Brexiteers agree on that.
I suspect the customs union, such as Turkey has, is a straw man on the part of Liam Fox. AFAILK no-one serious was suggesting it and it wouldn't be part of an EEA arrangement. So Mr Fox can present it as a totem to be knocked down to show how Macho Brexit he is. Then he can settle on whatever fudge has been agreed by the government.
Alternatively Mr Fox genuinely doesn't know the difference, despite being the man in charge. This too is possible.
Yes, Fox is probably pencilling in his 'victories' now, fearful that he will be condemned as May's stooge and a sell-out when he inevitably fails to deliver all the expected red meat. My guess is that what Fox eventually manages to winkle from the EU will make Dave's 'deal' look like the sacking of Carthage in comparison.
The UAE is frequently described as an "autocracy".[79][80][81] According to the New York Times, the UAE is "an autocracy with the sheen of a progressive, modern state".[82] The UAE ranks poorly in freedom indices measuring civil liberties and political rights. The UAE is annually ranked as "Not Free" in Freedom House's annual Freedom in the World report, which measures civil liberties and political rights.[83] The UAE also ranks poorly in the annual Reporters without Borders' Press Freedom Index.
On the World at One, Labour MP Lisa Nandy said Mr Smith - who she is backing for the Labour leadership - recognised that he used “the wrong choice of words”.
She also defended him against claims of sexism, telling told Radio 4: “What I would just say to anybody listening to that who like me is very willing and rightly so to call out people when they use sexist language in politics, wherever they are.
“Just look at Owen’s record on things like fighting for the women hit by changes to pension increases, by the cuts to tax credits, on which he led that campaign and won it. And the fact that he’s put ending the gender pay gap at the centrepiece of his speech today. I don’t think you can accuse him of being a sexist really.”
Following the backlash, a spokesman for Mr Smith said: “It was off script and, on reflection, it was an inappropriate choice of phrase and he apologises for using it."
Fox jr and fellow students are becoming much more open to the LDs, in part because the fees generation has moved on, and fees are the new normal, but also they feel they have had their revenge in 2015. There is a lot of youth support for the LDs unreserved pro-Remain position and anti-Iraq war too. It will not be a quick return to parliament, but may not be as far off as it seemed a year ago. Brexit and the seppuko of the Labour Party are having an effect.
Lib Dem revival is not shown by the polls. Lib Dems stuck at 8%.
But Lib Dems doing well in local government byelections. It shows the local organisation is starting to improve. Opinion polls will follow, never fear.
This is a spoof post, right?
Doing well in local by-elections is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for a libdem revival.
Yes, and I've focused on the substance of what he said, which is what is being widely reported and what taken as a whole was an impressive performance, not the stuff that excites overblown reactions from those here who can see the wood but are desperately trying only to see the trees.
''But blah blah blah Brexit end of the world etc etc etc ''
Guido cites Deutsche Boerse decision to press ahead with LSE merger.
A deal the FT declared emphatically was 'dead' after Brexit.
A shame about the FT and the economist. Once great publications. Now?
Mr. Taffy's both publications have been pretty much not worth the cover price for years and years.
There were some posts on here a while back which credibly claimed that the average age of the Economist's journalists was in the mid-twenties (i.e. about three or maybe four years out of Uni). Fine people in themselves no doubt but perhaps lacking in experience and investigative skills to justify their pontification on subjects that, by definition, they do not properly understand.
I suspect that the FT has the same problem, along with the Telegraph and other "serious" papers. Proper journalism is just too expensive for most papers these days. Much cheaper to get some youngsters in to re-write press releases in accordance with editorial bias along with some vaguely credible op/ed writers whose opinions can also be relied upon to fit the desired narrative.
Comments
I assume:
(a) Any less than clear outcome would be because it was difficult rather than due to a lack of trying on the part of the May government;
(b) There would be no credible alternative to whatever was agreed;
(c) By then people will be fed up with the whole thing.
Or am I wrong?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists
22nd best GDP per capita, 142nd least corrupt.
Brunei does even better, but it's almost solely oil based and is a micro-state. Oman's wealth is partly but far from wholly oil-based.
One of the beauties of Brexit was the way so many of the commentariat got exposed as little more than chattering parrots.
What comes next? Nobody really knows"
http://www.city-journal.org/html/brexits-complicated-aftermath-14590.html
Which countries had the biggest increases in their immigrant population in last 25 years? https://t.co/k5ToQ8gpla https://t.co/dscq7hHwpT
Good though isn't it ?
She has to (a) formally split from the EU (b) keep the union together (c) keep her party together (d) minimise economic disruption, and, (e) deliver something on migration
She has a lot of flexibility around how she does that, and to what extent.
If I were her I wouldn't worry too much about Ireland (a solution will be found and Martin McGuiness holds no veto on that) and go over the head of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP to make a very attractive direct offer to the Scottish people.
He's a truly nasty piece of work who only understands and respects one thing.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:12012M007
The bite after all this faff is the potential suspension of Poland's voting rights in the Ministers in Council. Not exactly sending the tanks in.
The irony of the unelected EU Commission acting as the arbiter and protector of democratic rights is hard to miss.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-putin-foreign-policy-advisor-sergey-karaganov-a-1102629.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates
Politics Home at https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/77708/owen-smith-apologises-‘smash-theresa-may-remark
On the World at One, Labour MP Lisa Nandy said Mr Smith - who she is backing for the Labour leadership - recognised that he used “the wrong choice of words”.
She also defended him against claims of sexism, telling told Radio 4: “What I would just say to anybody listening to that who like me is very willing and rightly so to call out people when they use sexist language in politics, wherever they are.
“Just look at Owen’s record on things like fighting for the women hit by changes to pension increases, by the cuts to tax credits, on which he led that campaign and won it. And the fact that he’s put ending the gender pay gap at the centrepiece of his speech today. I don’t think you can accuse him of being a sexist really.”
Following the backlash, a spokesman for Mr Smith said: “It was off script and, on reflection, it was an inappropriate choice of phrase and he apologises for using it."
New thread
Owen Smith now apologises for saying #labour should "smash (May) back on her heels". New statement calling it "inappropriate"
There were some posts on here a while back which credibly claimed that the average age of the Economist's journalists was in the mid-twenties (i.e. about three or maybe four years out of Uni). Fine people in themselves no doubt but perhaps lacking in experience and investigative skills to justify their pontification on subjects that, by definition, they do not properly understand.
I suspect that the FT has the same problem, along with the Telegraph and other "serious" papers. Proper journalism is just too expensive for most papers these days. Much cheaper to get some youngsters in to re-write press releases in accordance with editorial bias along with some vaguely credible op/ed writers whose opinions can also be relied upon to fit the desired narrative.
I wish Corbyn well as he smashes Smith into the ground with his mandate....(!)