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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    John_M said:

    This is fun.

    May: Hulk, Corbyn: puny human.

    I broke a rib laughing at the cinema during that scene.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296
    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    SNPAHMLO?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thhamilton: Why did former Labour MP Chris Williamson lose his seat in 2015? Let's ask him! https://t.co/yucLsoRNdy

    What does he mean when he says opinion polls cost him his seat? I genuinely don't get it.
    He believed if the polls had accurately shown the Tories on course for a majority, then the soft left like the Greens would have voted for him to stop the Tories.

    IIRC he lost by 40 odd votes whilst the Greens polled over 1,600 votes
    Technically he might be correct in that the Greens cost him his seat, in which case Corbyn would fix that problem.

    However practically if the polls where not showing it as a close race, then both Labour and the Tories would have lost a lot of votes to the smaller parties, due to less polarization.
    The LD, the Greens, and UKIP lost winnable seats due to the perception that it was neck and neck.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    edited July 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Not sure how. If that's what the moderates are going to do they are crackers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @thhamilton: Why did former Labour MP Chris Williamson lose his seat in 2015? Let's ask him! https://t.co/yucLsoRNdy

    What does he mean when he says opinion polls cost him his seat? I genuinely don't get it.
    He believed if the polls had accurately shown the Tories on course for a majority, then the soft left like the Greens would have voted for him to stop the Tories.

    IIRC he lost by 40 odd votes whilst the Greens polled over 1,600 votes
    It's tough for a politician to accept it's the fault of the voters sometimes - if they needed the threat of a Tory majority to vote for him, clearly they didn't care for him in the first place.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Yep they all lose their seat at the next election alongside the labour candidates as the vote is split....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
  • Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    Classic Thatcher with a small dash of 'Hello Boys'
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,129
    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    No more till September
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    SNPAHMLO?
    I think they would repudiate the L.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024
    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    A shame we won't get another PMQs now until after the summer recess. No more Theresa The Leftie Slayer until Autumn...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    May was assured and even cracked a few jokes. Corbyn was servicable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    A shame we won't get another PMQs now until after the summer recess. No more Theresa The Leftie Slayer until Autumn...
    It will make the memory of this one fade into legend, and make it hard for her to match the expectations next time I guess.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    May was assured and even cracked a few jokes. Corbyn was servicable.
    And he got serviced.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    You know Godwin's Law? Sometimes you have to break it. Erdogan is literally Hitler c. 1933.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Yep they all lose their seat at the next election alongside the labour candidates as the vote is split....
    Not sure how that's worse for Corbyn. He no longer has as many truculent Parliamentary members, he has dozens of open vacancies and doesn't have a rival organisation leaching votes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Mrs bucket is now shadow brexit - lol - ironic or what.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Freggles said:

    Turns out it's very easy to get onto the air on LBC. I feel a new addiction coming on!

    New quest, use the phrase 'Vapid Bilge' on radio

    I once managed to get an email in which I waxed lyrical about the perils of International Trottofascism read out on the BBC three counties breakfast show....
    james o' brien asked for nicknames for one of the Milliband brothers he read it out " X Williban."
  • John_M said:

    You know Godwin's Law? Sometimes you have to break it. Erdogan is literally Hitler c. 1933.

    And how didnt that end - Russians in Berlin.

    Constantinople has been salivated over by Russia for Centuries. If he pushes his luck he will make Putin's day.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    John_M said:

    You know Godwin's Law? Sometimes you have to break it. Erdogan is literally Hitler c. 1933.

    He hasn't passed a Ermächtigungsgesetz has he?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    A shame we won't get another PMQs now until after the summer recess. No more Theresa The Leftie Slayer until Autumn...
    It will make the memory of this one fade into legend, and make it hard for her to match the expectations next time I guess.
    Quite possibly. The "Remind him of anybody?" moment is destined for PMQs 'best of' reels until the end of time.

    That said, I'm sure the Labour Party will be providing plenty of material in the next two months to give her a decent stab at the next round!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    ToryJim said:

    John_M said:

    You know Godwin's Law? Sometimes you have to break it. Erdogan is literally Hitler c. 1933.

    He hasn't passed a Ermächtigungsgesetz has he?
    Give him time.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    May was assured and even cracked a few jokes. Corbyn was servicable.
    And he got serviced.
    I really hope you mean served not serviced
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Scott_P said:

    htps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/755864696511668224

    Dear media figures and politicians - we're not going back to the 80s, while its ok to draw allusions, don't push it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    I was presuming they'd go Independent Labour and not seek reselection (the few who would dare go Independent), so the long term damage would only be in terms of party management, not in contested seats, and the short term would be just formalising that the current crop of MPs, or at least those bold enough to take this step, see no point in being loyal to the leader
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    htps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/755864696511668224

    Dear media figures and politicians - we're not going back to the 80s, while its ok to draw allusions, don't push it.
    "Dear Fleet Street. Show me on this dolly where nasty Mrs Thatcher touched you."

    Sometime in the early 2200s, when the Tories have their 17th female prime minister, they'll probably still be calling her 'Heir to Mrs T." Only in robot.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    A shame we won't get another PMQs now until after the summer recess. No more Theresa The Leftie Slayer until Autumn...
    It will make the memory of this one fade into legend, and make it hard for her to match the expectations next time I guess.
    Quite possibly. The "Remind him of anybody?" moment is destined for PMQs 'best of' reels until the end of time.

    That said, I'm sure the Labour Party will be providing plenty of material in the next two months to give her a decent stab at the next round!
    Cameron's best PMQs moment came in his debut too.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    ToryJim said:

    John_M said:

    You know Godwin's Law? Sometimes you have to break it. Erdogan is literally Hitler c. 1933.

    He hasn't passed a Ermächtigungsgesetz has he?
    es kommt gleich
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Jonathan said:

    The Elite simply don't understand Corbyn. He is reshaping politics. He represents the 99% and will win for them

    You're wrong Jonathan. They understand him far too well, they realise how dangerous he is. That is why the full force of the media has been used against him from day one.

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The Independent.

    It was once.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Scott_P said:
    Why do they use Ms? It's Mrs May, especially as our new PM doesn't seem like someone to have much truck with Ms.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    BudG said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Elite simply don't understand Corbyn. He is reshaping politics. He represents the 99% and will win for them

    You're wrong Jonathan. They understand him far too well, they realise how dangerous he is. That is why the full force of the media has been used against him from day one.

    A political leader gets targeted by the media, this is unprecedented!*

    *We can quibble about the degree to which it happens, but there's nothing unusual about it happening to some degree.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    MTimT said:

    BigIan said:

    Speedy said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Is PB running it's own readership contest - which of the two new threads will win?!

    What was the last new thread about ?
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/755844322025549824
    LOL. How does swingback work when an opposition party does worse as the parliamentary term goes on? :)
    Judging by the last time something similar happened which was during the Brown honeymoon period in 2007 Corbyn will be forming a minority government despite trsiling in the polls as was Cameron then .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    Haha, in shocking news to PBers, Louise Mensch made a complete arse of herself on twitter today

    http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/louise-mensch-tried-to-defend-milo-yiannopoulos-and-scored-a-spectacular-own-goal-instead--WyQKZKr6bLb
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    So, if the labour MPs sit as independents, then the SNP really could become the official opposition!
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    At the current rate of going Erdogan will end up sacking himself.

    In doing what he is doing though he is sowing the seeds of his own elimination.

  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    kle4 said:

    BudG said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Elite simply don't understand Corbyn. He is reshaping politics. He represents the 99% and will win for them

    You're wrong Jonathan. They understand him far too well, they realise how dangerous he is. That is why the full force of the media has been used against him from day one.

    A political leader gets targeted by the media, this is unprecedented!*

    *We can quibble about the degree to which it happens, but there's nothing unusual about it happening to some degree.
    Of course all leaders come under scrutiny, it's the degree that I would quibble strongly about.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Thrak said:

    So, if the labour MPs sit as independents, then the SNP really could become the official opposition!

    If more than a handful, if that many, take such a step, I shall eat my second favourite hat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    edited July 2016
    BudG said:

    kle4 said:

    BudG said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Elite simply don't understand Corbyn. He is reshaping politics. He represents the 99% and will win for them

    You're wrong Jonathan. They understand him far too well, they realise how dangerous he is. That is why the full force of the media has been used against him from day one.

    A political leader gets targeted by the media, this is unprecedented!*

    *We can quibble about the degree to which it happens, but there's nothing unusual about it happening to some degree.
    Of course all leaders come under scrutiny, it's the degree that I would quibble strongly about.

    Ed M had plenty. And while you may accept all come under scrutiny, the way the argument is so often presented it comes across as people trying to make Corbyn seem more unusual, more transformative, than in fact he is.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,554
    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024
    Hard to believe this woman was once considered "A List" material..

    Well, I suppose she's A List something...
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    edited July 2016
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    Thinking about it more given that there are boundary changes that will probably go through this time around its utterly pointless..

    Any independent former Labour MP standing will need to pick their constituency knowing that x% have not had you as their MP previously. So they won't stand a pray in the next election..

    The only chance that they could win is to group together and even then the things they will be standing for won't be what their constituents want (remember the layers of divorce)...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Y0kel said:

    At the current rate of going Erdogan will end up sacking himself.

    In doing what he is doing though he is sowing the seeds of his own elimination.

    Sometimes in our moments of seemingly greatest strength we fall prey to our greatest weaknesses. As Cameron could tell us.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    Speak to some physicists and there's a universe where she did. Although possibly not for much longer ;)
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    I was presuming they'd go Independent Labour and not seek reselection (the few who would dare go Independent), so the long term damage would only be in terms of party management, not in contested seats, and the short term would be just formalising that the current crop of MPs, or at least those bold enough to take this step, see no point in being loyal to the leader
    In any case it would be a solution for Labour's problems.
    A replacement of most of the current Labour MP's with people who are more in line with their local Labour voters and Labour members, would solve the problem of most Labour MP's lecturing their people instead of listening to them.

    It's like replacing the scottish Labour MP's with new people before SLAB collapsed.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,920
    Y0kel said:

    At the current rate of going Erdogan will end up sacking himself.

    In doing what he is doing though he is sowing the seeds of his own elimination.

    But what damage will he do to the world in the meantime?

  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    I was presuming they'd go Independent Labour and not seek reselection (the few who would dare go Independent), so the long term damage would only be in terms of party management, not in contested seats, and the short term would be just formalising that the current crop of MPs, or at least those bold enough to take this step, see no point in being loyal to the leader
    In any case it would be a solution for Labour's problems.
    A replacement of most of the current Labour MP's with people who are more in line with their local Labour voters and Labour members, would solve the problem of most Labour MP's lecturing their people instead of listening to them.

    It's like replacing the scottish Labour MP's with new people before SLAB collapsed.
    You assume members are in line with voters... Post Corbyn in many places your typical member (especially the new ones) have little to no understanding of the typical voter....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    Speak to some physicists and there's a universe where she did. Although possibly not for much longer ;)
    Never mind Mensch.. just think how lucky the Tories are to have Mrs May instead of Leadsom.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Scott_P said:
    Why the feck are the Independent entitled to "front pages" any more on paper reviews and the like?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    edited July 2016

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    There are a fair few science fiction / ???(can't remember the current preferred prefix) fantasy series where multiple alternative timelines have a few people who can cross between timelines usually with catastrophic consequences for all involved.. And given infinite alternative timelines the technology to do so must have been created in some of them...

    Just wanted to give you a valid reason for those scary nights
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    Scott_P said:
    Why the feck are the Independent entitled to "front pages" any more on paper reviews and the like?
    As the nature of the headline itself shows, media people don't like to move away from how things used to be.
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    If they go Independent, they'll all be gone at the next GE.

    If they set up an SDP2, by the time of the GE they'll at least have given themselves a bit of a run up to it as Opposition, and have a better chance of holding their seats.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I was reading the details of that story earlier.. The dark arts of social media land are alien to me, but it was fascinating stuff.

    Mensch really is a bit mental. Aside from the fact she made a complete bellend of herself with that tweet, the fact she waded in on the side of that Milo fella when he had blatantly instigated the horrible, gratuitous racist abuse suggests she needs a serious word with herself.

    I learnt a new word too - noxxing!
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    eek said:

    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    I was presuming they'd go Independent Labour and not seek reselection (the few who would dare go Independent), so the long term damage would only be in terms of party management, not in contested seats, and the short term would be just formalising that the current crop of MPs, or at least those bold enough to take this step, see no point in being loyal to the leader
    In any case it would be a solution for Labour's problems.
    A replacement of most of the current Labour MP's with people who are more in line with their local Labour voters and Labour members, would solve the problem of most Labour MP's lecturing their people instead of listening to them.

    It's like replacing the scottish Labour MP's with new people before SLAB collapsed.
    You assume members are in line with voters... Post Corbyn in many places your typical member (especially the new ones) have little to no understanding of the typical voter....
    Looking at the rather posh Labour member demographics, it's clear that for them the working classes exist as some form of vaporous political abstraction, like a platonic solid or Schrodinger's cat.

    Important to have some in your ancestry of course, for the street cred. But you would never allow your children to marry one.
  • He certainly seems set on dismantling the secular Turkey set up by Ataturk in 1922.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.

    I do - got +Londin's letter yesterday. I haven't had the chance to discuss with my sources in the Old Deanery yet... I wouldn't bet on this market without insight ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    He certainly seems set on dismantling the secular Turkey set up by Ataturk in 1922.
    And the people, a majority at least, seem perfectly happy about that.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    Speak to some physicists and there's a universe where she did. Although possibly not for much longer ;)
    Never mind Mensch.. just think how lucky the Tories are to have Mrs May instead of Leadsom.
    Indeed I'm glad Leadweight has been sent to sink without trace at the Environment department.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024

    Scott_P said:
    Why the feck are the Independent entitled to "front pages" any more on paper reviews and the like?
    Plus, although I don't wish to spoil The Independent's pity party here, can they really say Theresa has 'stirred antagonism in Europe'? From everything I've seen she's been businesslike, calm and collected. She hardly barged into Berlin, handbag at the ready and demanded her country back within the day!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    edited July 2016
    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Even worse - Angela Eagle vs Leadsom!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    Was on a flight today. How did PMQs go?

    @edcumming: If you enjoyed that scene in Jurassic Park where the cow is lowered into the velociraptor enclosure, you will enjoy the next few PMQ's
    LOL!
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    That would be a terrible universe.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Fenster said:

    I was reading the details of that story earlier.. The dark arts of social media land are alien to me, but it was fascinating stuff.

    Mensch really is a bit mental. Aside from the fact she made a complete bellend of herself with that tweet, the fact she waded in on the side of that Milo fella when he had blatantly instigated the horrible, gratuitous racist abuse suggests she needs a serious word with herself.

    I learnt a new word too - noxxing!
    Sorry - I meant doxxing...

    Autocorrect trap.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2016

    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.

    Bloody hell, Chartres is chucking his hand in. Bloody shame, I twice hoped he make ++Canterbury. A bloody good egg, sound and with bottom. Genuinely sad to see him go, but I suppose he isn't getting any younger.

    On the betting side of this I think you are very wise to ask Mr. Charles. He has in the past been particularly fortunate in his information about episcopal appointments, allowing me to make a few quid. The old Dean has gone now so I don't suppose the market will be as liquid as it once was.

    Nonetheless, come on Mr. Charles, nose to the grindstone, old boy, ear to the ground and ferret out those tips for us.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Even worse - Angela Eagle vs Leadsom!
    I admire Angela Eagle. She stepped up while all the so-called big beasts were cowering on the back benches and bitching about Corbyn in the corners. Labour's grandees have absolutely no balls.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Even worse - Angela Eagle vs Leadsom!
    There's a probably undiscovered law of physics that would make that impossible.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited July 2016
    eek said:

    There are a fair few science fiction / ???(can't remember the current preferred prefix) fantasy series where multiple alternative timelines have a few people who can cross between timelines usually with catastrophic consequences for all involved.. And given infinite alternative timelines the technology to do so must have been created in some of them...

    That last sentence is not true! :)

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Oh well, at least the UK public voted for Brexit :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    Miriam Gonzalez, remember? ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,024
    John_M said:

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Even worse - Angela Eagle vs Leadsom!
    I admire Angela Eagle. She stepped up while all the so-called big beasts were cowering on the back benches and bitching about Corbyn in the corners. Labour's grandees have absolutely no balls.
    Fair play to her for that, though it was after day upon day of incessant dithering that made Brown look positively swift acting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    John_M said:

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    Even worse - Angela Eagle vs Leadsom!
    I admire Angela Eagle. She stepped up while all the so-called big beasts were cowering on the back benches and bitching about Corbyn in the corners. Labour's grandees have absolutely no balls.
    Fair play to her for that, though it was after day upon day of incessant dithering that made Brown look positively swift acting.
    I'm half convinced she never intended to declare at all, but it got reported that she was so many times she had no choice.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    The period of silence from him has been welcome.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.

    Bloody hell, Chartres is chucking his hand in. Bloody shame, I twice hoped he make ++Canterbury. A bloody good egg, sound and with bottom. Genuinely sad to see him go, but I suppose he isn't getting any younger.

    On the betting side of this I think you are very wise to ask Mr. Charles. He has in the past been particularly fortunate in his information about episcopal appointments, allowing me to make a few quid. The old Dean has gone now so I don't suppose the market will be as liquid as it once was.

    Nonetheless, come on Mr. Charles, nose to the grindstone, old boy, ear to the ground and ferret out those tips for us.
    He was never going to be translated to Canterbury - the women priests thing made it just too difficult despite his other merits (although +Richard's limp handshake was another terrible black mark in my view. Worst I've ever come across - like shaking damp spaghetti)

    +Fulham was pushed aside last year, so manouvering has been going on a while. I just haven't spent the time to figure out who's been chosen yet.

    Haven't validated yet, but I doubt that - despite the media articles - they will appoint a woman to +Londin yet. It will happen some day (either London or York will be first depending on the statement they want to make) but to do it straight after +Richard would be to spite him
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    Dromedary said:

    eek said:

    There are a fair few science fiction / ???(can't remember the current preferred prefix) fantasy series where multiple alternative timelines have a few people who can cross between timelines usually with catastrophic consequences for all involved.. And given infinite alternative timelines the technology to do so must have been created in some of them...

    That last sentence is not true! :)

    How weird is the timeline you claim not to have come from?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.

    Bloody hell, Chartres is chucking his hand in. Bloody shame, I twice hoped he make ++Canterbury. A bloody good egg, sound and with bottom. Genuinely sad to see him go, but I suppose he isn't getting any younger.

    On the betting side of this I think you are very wise to ask Mr. Charles. He has in the past been particularly fortunate in his information about episcopal appointments, allowing me to make a few quid. The old Dean has gone now so I don't suppose the market will be as liquid as it once was.

    Nonetheless, come on Mr. Charles, nose to the grindstone, old boy, ear to the ground and ferret out those tips for us.
    I'm not a religious person but Chartres has always seemed pretty solid to me. Am I correct in thinking that London is seen as just below the two arch episcopal sees? Interesting timing too giving Mrs May the first opportunity to use one of the few remaining prerogative powers. Wonder if she will appoint a woman or play it safe?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    The period of silence from him has been welcome.
    Remember when Chris Huhne was the major story on PB for months?

    Thank God for politicians and their inability to keep the snake inside the pet store
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,292
    eek said:

    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @dizzy_thinks: Heard more than one Lab person say a mass of indys in Parliament could occur instead of a formal split. Much worse for Corbyn if true.

    Of all the options, the rebels sitting as Independent Labour somehow but not actually leaving the party (Unless expelled I guess) seems more likely than a formal split. Still wouldn't expect it to be many though - people were saying some shadow cabinet resigners are already saying they want back in.
    Well they can't practically win re-election in the next GE if they go independent.

    The personal votes that they have are very small, and the policies they aspire quite unpopular in their seats, can you imagine Tristram Hunt trying to get re-elected in his seat as an independent or on some other party?

    It would make the collapse of the LD look like a triumph, it would be lost deposits all over.
    It would be 150 Independent Labour MP's losing their deposits in the next GE.

    It might cost Labour seats though that it holds with majorities less than 2-3K votes, but there are not many in number.
    Thinking about it more given that there are boundary changes that will probably go through this time around its utterly pointless..

    Any independent former Labour MP standing will need to pick their constituency knowing that x% have not had you as their MP previously. So they won't stand a pray in the next election..

    The only chance that they could win is to group together and even then the things they will be standing for won't be what their constituents want (remember the layers of divorce)...
    I don't see how operating as 150-odd independents does them any good. I suppose it would make the rest of this parliament more bearable for them, but it's going to be a hinderance both to them and to moderate Labour beyond the dissolution of this parliament.

    Long term, the only option I see is a split followed by some sort of arrangement with the remaining Lib Dems. Moreover, I'd expect such an arrangement to be electorally successful - detoxifying Labour by removing all of their most voter-repellent characters at one stroke.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    Thank goodness, it's almost enough to inspire faith in a benevolent deity.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,920

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    The period of silence from him has been welcome.
    Remember when Chris Huhne was the major story on PB for months?
    The government should hire him to work on the points-based system.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ToryJim said:

    Charles

    I understand that you have an interest in matters high Anglican.

    +londin announced the timing of his retirement yesterday: http://www.london.anglican.org/articles/bishop-london-announces-retirement-2017/

    I would be interested in your thoughts on his potential successor, although any decision is unlikely to be made for many months.

    Bloody hell, Chartres is chucking his hand in. Bloody shame, I twice hoped he make ++Canterbury. A bloody good egg, sound and with bottom. Genuinely sad to see him go, but I suppose he isn't getting any younger.

    On the betting side of this I think you are very wise to ask Mr. Charles. He has in the past been particularly fortunate in his information about episcopal appointments, allowing me to make a few quid. The old Dean has gone now so I don't suppose the market will be as liquid as it once was.

    Nonetheless, come on Mr. Charles, nose to the grindstone, old boy, ear to the ground and ferret out those tips for us.
    I'm not a religious person but Chartres has always seemed pretty solid to me. Am I correct in thinking that London is seen as just below the two arch episcopal sees? Interesting timing too giving Mrs May the first opportunity to use one of the few remaining prerogative powers. Wonder if she will appoint a woman or play it safe?
    Historically Durham is more important (and arguably Winchester) but London - although don't forget it's only the north bank (Southwark is south of the river) - is very significant.

    Chartres is an impressive preacher, and has been a solid bishop, although he's struggled sometimes in that the more inflexible members of the church use him as a figurehead. He might agree with them in private, but he didn't want to rock the boat in public.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    The period of silence from him has been welcome.
    Remember when Chris Huhne was the major story on PB for months?
    The government should hire him to work on the points-based system.

    Good idea. I'm sure he could get up to speed quite quickly.

  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    MaxPB said:

    Err do the BBC really have Mrs Clegg on as an impartial voice?

    They've used convicted criminal Mrs ex-Huhne very regularly.
    We don't hear that much from Mr Huhne these days.
    The period of silence from him has been welcome.
    Remember when Chris Huhne was the major story on PB for months?
    The government should hire him to work on the points-based system.
    We don't want migrants being able to donate their points to someone else ;)
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    BudG said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Elite simply don't understand Corbyn. He is reshaping politics. He represents the 99% and will win for them

    You're wrong Jonathan. They understand him far too well, they realise how dangerous he is. That is why the full force of the media has been used against him from day one.

    Ha haha brilliant. Oh you're serious.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited July 2016
    eek said:

    Dromedary said:

    eek said:

    There are a fair few science fiction / ???(can't remember the current preferred prefix) fantasy series where multiple alternative timelines have a few people who can cross between timelines usually with catastrophic consequences for all involved.. And given infinite alternative timelines the technology to do so must have been created in some of them...

    That last sentence is not true! :)

    How weird is the timeline you claim not to have come from?
    I don't understand your point. If a number of items is infinite, that doesn't mean that any particular item you can think of, weird or otherwise - or an item with some specific characteristic that not every item must have - must exist.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    I'll not have a bad word said against Chris Huhne.

    Chris Huhne, alongside Rupert Murdoch were the main reasons I ended up becoming guest editor of PB.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,655

    I'll not have a bad word said against Chris Huhne.

    Chris Huhne, alongside Rupert Murdoch were the main reasons I ended up becoming guest editor of PB.

    Speeding here
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    Accrington Stanley!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    I'll not have a bad word said against Chris Huhne.

    Chris Huhne, alongside Rupert Murdoch were the main reasons I ended up becoming guest editor of PB.

    And now people know who to blame :)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,292
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    Oh that's good. It's embarrassing she used to be an MP.
    Just imagine if she hadn't stood down as an MP, she might have filled the Andrea Leadsom role.

    She could have become PM this year!
    That's the sort of nightmare alternative timeline that gives you sleepless nights...
    Here's a thought that will make Mensch as PM seem like a pleasant dream.

    At the next general election the choice could have been Corbyn v Leadsom, in one universe, that'll be the option.
    That would be a terrible universe.
    But in this universe, the next POTUS is between Donald and Hilary.

    Actually, come to think of it, I would rather either Donald or Hilary lead my country than Jeremy or Andrea.
This discussion has been closed.