When you say the "Commonwealth" , do you mean the "white" Commonwealth [ otherwise, known as the "Old" Commonwealth ] or the entire Commonwealth.
The Commonwealth is composed of mainly Republics. Take out your rose tinted spectacles.
They still all have represenative democracy, the common law and the rule of law. They nearly all speak English either as a first languagem an official language or a defacto official language. Basically politically they all play Rugby Union wheras the EU dosent even keep to the rules of Rugby league.
It is not a centralised organisation like the EU and no one will be forced into anything.
The fact is that I could, without any prior knowledge of the place, land in India or even Zimbabwe, comminicate with anyone educated, have the ability to competently find myself housing and work (in terms of being capable of doing the application, understsnding how contractual issues work - not employment laws for immigrants). I would be in an environment where the basic framework of life is the same - yes even in Zimbabwe. And in time off I could join a cricket club :-)
That is not the case anywhere in the EU except RoI, Malta and Cyprus.
I am looking forward to India play Pakistan at rugby followed by Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. The winners could take on Malaysia.........
What crap are you talking ? Just say you meant only the "white bit" of the Commonwealth and we will all understand what you really wanted to say.
Back on topic, I know the EU sucks at doing things without a drop-dead deadline but if May really doesn't intend to stall in the hope of reversal, maybe they could actually get a provisional deal done really fast. The uncertainty is hurting everybody, the UK can't be happy continuing to pay for membership, and everyone else would probably rather be able to make decisions without a soon-to-be-ex-member hanging around like a bad smell.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
Unless he resigns he will be, automatically.
It appears that is in grave doubt.
Well, he will never need 51 nominations. Simple.
If he is automatically not a shoe-in, then he resigns. So the nomination trigger becomes 15%, i.e. 40 like last time.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
He says he will be. There is a dispute over Rule 4B.2 about whether, as Leader he needs nominations. The words clearly suggest he doesn't need nominations but the intent behind it suggests any contender needs the support of the PLP. I suspect when the words were written, the current situation was never considered.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
Back on topic, I know the EU sucks at doing things without a drop-dead deadline but if May really doesn't intend to stall in the hope of reversal, maybe they could actually get a provisional deal done really fast. The uncertainty is hurting everybody, the UK can't be happy continuing to pay for membership, and everyone else would probably rather be able to make decisions without a soon-to-be-ex-member hanging around like a bad smell.
Why should the EU budge ? It is hurting Britain, not them. After all, UK is only 15% in terms of EU GDP.
Back on topic, I know the EU sucks at doing things without a drop-dead deadline but if May really doesn't intend to stall in the hope of reversal, maybe they could actually get a provisional deal done really fast. The uncertainty is hurting everybody, the UK can't be happy continuing to pay for membership, and everyone else would probably rather be able to make decisions without a soon-to-be-ex-member hanging around like a bad smell.
Given May will need to lay out to Tory members what she intends to go for in any article 50 negotiations, I struggle to see how she will be able to stick to her timetable of not declaring until next year.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
He says he will be. There is a dispute over Rule 4B.2 about whether, as Leader he needs nominations. The words clearly suggest he doesn't need nominations but the intent behind it suggests any contender needs the support of the PLP. I suspect when the words were written, the current situation was never considered.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
When you say the "Commonwealth" , do you mean the "white" Commonwealth [ otherwise, known as the "Old" Commonwealth ] or the entire Commonwealth.
The Commonwealth is composed of mainly Republics. Take out your rose tinted spectacles.
They still all have represenative democracy, the common law and the rule of law. They nearly all speak English either as a first languagem an official language or a defacto official language. Basically politically they all play Rugby Union wheras the EU dosent even keep to the rules of Rugby league.
It is not a centralised organisation like the EU and no one will be forced into anything.
The fact is that I could, without any prior knowledge of the place, land in India or even Zimbabwe, comminicate with anyone educated, have the ability to competently find myself housing and work (in terms of being capable of doing the application, understsnding how contractual issues work - not employment laws for immigrants). I would be in an environment where the basic framework of life is the same - yes even in Zimbabwe. And in time off I could join a cricket club :-)
That is not the case anywhere in the EU except RoI, Malta and Cyprus.
I am looking forward to India play Pakistan at rugby followed by Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. The winners could take on Malaysia.........
What crap are you talking ? Just say you meant only the "white bit" of the Commonwealth and we will all understand what you really wanted to say.
Tbf his main problem was the strained rugby metaphor. India and Zimbabwe are hardly the "white bit".
The idea of the LibDems - even doubling up with say 15% of the vote - being able to dictate policy on the EU over the 52% who voted to Leave on a higher turnout, is grotesque.
The 52% are very welcome to vote in a GE. If they all prioritise their anti-EU beliefs and vote the same way the party they support will win a landslide and the LDs will be able to dictate nothing.
Indeed. There's nothing wrong with the ld position, which would rely on getting democratic support to bring into action, and the other parties will be options for people to choose to prevent. Now, the ld position woukd be a hard sell even for many remainers but they're free to try it. There is the question of what would they ask for ina hung parliament scenario, but it would be on the others not to give in on specific points.
4 years to a GE where Labour's mess will probably be sorted by then, I wonder if the LDs will have as much opportunity as it seems though.
Exactly. It's also a bit hard to claim the democratic high ground on the stance that winning 37% of the electorate means you should have untramelled power and never have to compromise with other chunks of the electorate. If democratic legitimacy is so important, adopt a PR electoral system (and no - not AV!). Otherwise, if the set up is such that you accept the benefits for your side (37% can give a majority), accept the drawbacks as well - such as having to compromise with other parties if you can't even secure that 37%
I am on holiday in Majorca at the moment and for the 3rd time in 3 years am completely bemused by the complete lack of working Internet near the Med. anyway I have been using the enforced time offline to come up with a list of why May will be a good PM.
1. I will once again have a PM older than me which feels like the natural order of things.
....
It's a work in progress.
Got a Leadsome list?
It's shorter. It is seriously time for the socially liberal, fiscally dry, not obsessed by gays and Europe party to have its public launch. I feel without a party at the moment.
Eric Pickles doing a good job for Theresa on Sky.....
"I'd rather have a bloody difficult woman negotiating on our behalf rather than someone who panics at the publication of a single unfortunate headline who then proceeds to make things worse."
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
He says he will be. There is a dispute over Rule 4B.2 about whether, as Leader he needs nominations. The words clearly suggest he doesn't need nominations but the intent behind it suggests any contender needs the support of the PLP. I suspect when the words were written, the current situation was never considered.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
I agree that excluding Corbyn would have a devastating effect on the Labour Party, and potentially on its support. Truly the nuclear option.
But there's almost consensus now that the only other option the MPs have (since they can hardly go back to being loyal) involves splitting or leaving the party. Maybe they are reaching the position where going nuclear seems unavoidable?
On the issue of Brexit and the determination of some on here to get Andrea Leadsom elected PM because she is allegedly more committed to Brexit than Theresa May, how will she be able to accomplish anything with over two thirds of her MP's against her, a situation that is not dissimilar to Corbyn.
For those who think Leadsom will negotiate the Country out of the EU I would suggest she would have the very opposite effect by creating animosity within her own party and in the wider context the Country. Ironically this could result in a substantial move by voters in regretting leaving, and an absolute determination by the majority of MP's and the House of Lords to stall the process.
In any respect she will not be able to serve article 50 without her cabinet's approval at the very least, and probably a vote in the HOC, which she would stand a big risk of losing and becoming a lame duck PM with no power.
In the case of Theresa May her steely determination and substantial support, not only in the party, but also in the country, would see us exit in a way that protects the economy and establishes good relationships with heads of governments Europe wide. I would expect her to bypass Juncker and deal direct with Merkel, Hollande et al.
So to all Brexiteers, if you want this to happen support Theresa May as anything else could be very detrimental to the need for us to leave the EU
4/6 this afternoon is good. 4/6 with settlement in 2019 is appalling. If you want to play at those prices, there is Wimbledon, the British Grand Prix and the Euro2016 final all paying out today.
Keeping him off the ballot would surely provoke outrage, a legal challenge, seriously piss off the unions and risks splitting the party. Which would make it very hard for Labour to win- and presumably would defeat the point of removing Corbyn for electability reasons.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
Unless he resigns he will be, automatically.
It appears that is in grave doubt.
Well, he will never need 51 nominations. Simple.
If he is automatically not a shoe-in, then he resigns. So the nomination trigger becomes 15%, i.e. 40 like last time.
Stephen Bush who knows about this disagrees
No, probably can't do that. Leadership challenge like Art50: once started, can't go back to regular rules.
Back on topic, I know the EU sucks at doing things without a drop-dead deadline but if May really doesn't intend to stall in the hope of reversal, maybe they could actually get a provisional deal done really fast. The uncertainty is hurting everybody, the UK can't be happy continuing to pay for membership, and everyone else would probably rather be able to make decisions without a soon-to-be-ex-member hanging around like a bad smell.
Why should the EU budge ? It is hurting Britain, not them. After all, UK is only 15% in terms of EU GDP.
Are you actually reading the continental press ? This is hurting EU too.
4/6 this afternoon is good. 4/6 with settlement in 2019 is appalling. If you want to play at those prices, there is Wimbledon, the British Grand Prix and the Euro2016 final all paying out today.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
Back on topic, I know the EU sucks at doing things without a drop-dead deadline but if May really doesn't intend to stall in the hope of reversal, maybe they could actually get a provisional deal done really fast. The uncertainty is hurting everybody, the UK can't be happy continuing to pay for membership, and everyone else would probably rather be able to make decisions without a soon-to-be-ex-member hanging around like a bad smell.
Why should the EU budge ? It is hurting Britain, not them. After all, UK is only 15% in terms of EU GDP.
Are you actually reading the continental press ? This is hurting EU too.
UK is still in the EU. Looks like they will be in for a long time. Get real, the 6th largest economy is not that important. And, if Italy's "black" economy is counted, the 7th largest.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
snip
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
He says he will be. There is a dispute over Rule 4B.2 about whether, as Leader he needs nominations. The words clearly suggest he doesn't need nominations but the intent behind it suggests any contender needs the support of the PLP. I suspect when the words were written, the current situation was never considered.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
But is it though? If Corbyn is off the ballot, what happens next? We can speculate. Momentum try and disrupt the leadership election and conference. Lots of pickets, shouting, mobs outside MPs offices etc etc. Threats of deselection etc.
A new leader would then start business. First task is to block deselection, change the rules on that or whatever needs to be done. Corbyn and co may well resign the Labour whip and sit as a separate grouping at this point. Labour might split, but the split would be Corbyn and perhaps 20 or so, effectively SWP types. They would be powerless.
It seems to me that the rebels have to win this autumn in order to stop deselections or then it will be too late for at least a decade.
I am on holiday in Majorca at the moment and for the 3rd time in 3 years am completely bemused by the complete lack of working Internet near the Med. anyway I have been using the enforced time offline to come up with a list of why May will be a good PM.
1. I will once again have a PM older than me which feels like the natural order of things.
....
It's a work in progress.
In Harare you have working internet, no problem.
I simply could not do my job the way I do it with Internet 10x better than this. The implications for productivity must be immense but have to be countered by people spending less time writing and sending pointless e-mails. You are right though that many so called third world countries have skipped this 90's style crap and gone to the next generation. I can't help feeling the economic consequences of that will prove significant.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
Unless he resigns he will be, automatically.
It appears that is in grave doubt.
Well, he will never need 51 nominations. Simple.
If he is automatically not a shoe-in, then he resigns. So the nomination trigger becomes 15%, i.e. 40 like last time.
Stephen Bush who knows about this disagrees
No, probably can't do that. Leadership challenge like Art50: once started, can't go back to regular rules.
Jeremy Corbyn knows the composition of the NEC better than Stephen Bush. He is actually in it. The NEC cannot decide something without it being on the agenda.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
"awful at the moment"? Is there any moment in recorded history when she has not been awful?
I haven't seen much if her, if this is who Labour are putting forwards then they are fucked. Where are Labour's big beasts.
It has to be a stalking horse strategy. No one thinks she could win an election. None of the people who really fancy a shot at it will be prepared to knife Corbyn in the front.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
She is a stalking bird - the criteria were someone who definitely had no long term ambitions but who wasn't completely incredible as being a step change improvement from Corbyn (based on her one appearance at PMQs). It was a short list.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
Labour is buggered for years to come whatever happens. The coalition is broken. I suspect the non-union party will get a fair amount of private donor funding.
Eric Pickles doing a good job for Theresa on Sky.....
"I'd rather have a bloody difficult woman negotiating on our behalf rather than someone who panics at the publication of a single unfortunate headline who then proceeds to make things worse."
Quite.
That is probably the better way to play it -- more in sorrow than anger -- confirms Leadsom too inexperienced -- maybe next time.
In contrast, the OTT attacks on the minutiae risk creating a backlash of sympathy for Leadsom. I doubt many Tory members will be that exercised about her precise job titles -- she did something or other in the City and on balance it may be better if she is seen as a bureaucrat and not as an out-of-control trader in red braces. Likewise the stuff about May being childless. Yes, she shouldn't have said it but how many votes will it swing?
In response to a question about an election, Eagle answers "you have to respect the result of any democratic process". She is of course thinking about the NEC.
Eric Pickles doing a good job for Theresa on Sky.....
"I'd rather have a bloody difficult woman negotiating on our behalf rather than someone who panics at the publication of a single unfortunate headline who then proceeds to make things worse."
Quite.
That is probably the better way to play it -- more in sorrow than anger -- confirms Leadsom too inexperienced -- maybe next time.
In contrast, the OTT attacks on the minutiae risk creating a backlash of sympathy for Leadsom. I doubt many Tory members will be that exercised about her precise job titles -- she did something or other in the City and on balance it may be better if she is seen as a bureaucrat and not as an out-of-control trader in red braces. Likewise the stuff about May being childless. Yes, she shouldn't have said it but how many votes will it swing?
IMHO The May team tactics must be a steady drip drip demonstration that novelty is a risk. It seems reading some of the vox pox in the papers that some tory members are drawn to the idea of a fresh face, a new start etc etc.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
snip
You are assuming Corbyn will be on the ballot.
He says he will be. There is a dispute over Rule 4B.2 about whether, as Leader he needs nominations. The words clearly suggest he doesn't need nominations but the intent behind it suggests any contender needs the support of the PLP. I suspect when the words were written, the current situation was never considered.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
But is it though? If Corbyn is off the ballot, what happens next? We can speculate. Momentum try and disrupt the leadership election and conference. Lots of pickets, shouting, mobs outside MPs offices etc etc. Threats of deselection etc.
A new leader would then start business. First task is to block deselection, change the rules on that or whatever needs to be done. Corbyn and co may well resign the Labour whip and sit as a separate grouping at this point. Labour might split, but the split would be Corbyn and perhaps 20 or so, effectively SWP types. They would be powerless.
It seems to me that the rebels have to win this autumn in order to stop deselections or then it will be too late for at least a decade.
Isn't re-selection the same thing as Primaries in the US ? If re-selection is stopped, then an MP does not have to attend Parliament at all and can still stay in his/her job.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Haven't read the comments so someone may have mentioned this.
I'd be surprised if the date of exit isn't (a relatively uncontroversial) point of negotiation.
That, for instance, say Article 50 was triggered on the 17th September 2017.
I wouldn't be surprised if they negotiated that the exit date wasn't 17th September 2019 but another date: 31 December 2019 or 5 April 2020 for example.
If it's the 31 December 2019 then "the first full day outside the EU" screws up the 2019 bet.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
I think Corbyn genuinely doesn't feel under pressure - just frustration.
It looks to me that the plotters in the Shadow cabinet led by Hilary Benn took action because a) they feared an early election defeat and b) Corbyn's apparently lack lustre performance in the referendum campaign gave them an excuse to move against him.
They miscalculated because a) it looks as if there won't be an early election, b) Corbyn has been strengthened by Chilcott and some of the plotters have been diminished, c) critically, there isn't an alternate election winning leader waiting in the wings and c) Corbyn has resisted the pressure, confident he will win if challenged.
When Eagle loses to Corbyn, they will be back to square one. The responsibility for potentially destroying the Labour Party over the perceived poor leadership qualities of Corbyn, and undermining the duty of the Opposition to hold the government to account, lies squarely with the plotters.
They should recognise they have lost and fold their hand. There aren't great policy differences (except Trident which they can't do anything about) so the best should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet and take the fight to the Tories.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
Labour is buggered for years to come whatever happens. The coalition is broken. I suspect the non-union party will get a fair amount of private donor funding.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
Labour is buggered for years to come whatever happens. The coalition is broken. I suspect the non-union party will get a fair amount of private donor funding.
I'm afraid I just don't buy the idea that these summer romance, £3ers, who now worship Corbyn as the second coming will last the distance once they are being asked to campaign for a completely new party (your 'Real Labour'). They wont turn up, they wont knock on doors, they wont do the boring business of running committee meetings. Yes, there'll be a few flash mobs and so on, but action in 100s of seats? The unions won't go with them. IMHO it'll never happen.
Andrea Leadsom was under mounting pressure to reveal her financial affairs last night, after she failed to meet a self-imposed deadline for publishing her tax return.
The former banker had said she would release details of her tax affairs yesterday – four days after Tory leadership rival Theresa May published four years’ worth of hers.
But the plan was dropped at the last minute, and without a new date being set. A source insisted there was no problem, saying: ‘We have not fixed a date, but it won’t be long.’
The delay will heighten speculation the energy minister has ‘something to hide’.
There does seem to be a problem with her tax return - otherwise it would be published by now. She might try to get away with only publishing the latest year in heavily summarised form but it won't wash. I think it might well be a ticking bomb.
At least it will move the debate on from the mothering edge.
It could be that he tax return is totally boring and has nothing of any interest at all. In such circumstances they might be thinking that it makes sense to let a head of frothing outrage build up before release.
Could be. But if it's boring why not publish when the others did a couple of weeks ago?
My guess is that a) she got pushed into it by Marr - her initial response was clearly intended to play for time, but Marr quickly got her to yes or no, and b) she imagined it would only be last year's. May responded by publishing the last four years, as Cameron had done previously. Once Leadsom realised it would have to be the past four years, she started rowing back - on Monday she said she would only publish if she got to the final two. When she got to the final two it was reported that she had shifted again and wouldn't be making them public.
On this last point - either the source got this wrong (I definitely saw it, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring it) - or it suits the Mail et al. to continue to pin her to her original promise. Which, since it was made on live TV, is not unreasonable.
"Pushed by Marr". My god does that not say it all? If she can get bullied by that soft block of water logged soap she is not ready for the Cabinet let alone PM. Those who had understandable reservations about Boris should look on and weep.
I'm surprised that no-one has targeted Leadsom with the tag "Mother Superior"....
I am quite sad that she has made such a mess of her campaign.
While I do not agree with her right wing views I hoped she would show competency but starting with her c.v, going on to her refusal to publish four years of tax returns, and now her crass comments comparing her motherhood to Theresa May's inability to have children, she has made it clear that she is unsuitable for the highest Office in the land.
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
I know they are different parties and different rules but when Major asked Tory MPs to "put up or shut up" and a leadership ballot ensued, had he lost that ballot he would not have been allowed onto the next leader ballot with the members without getting into the top two with the PCP.
There is no point having a rule within the system to ensure that a leader has a minimum level of support amongst the parliamentary party if it is ignored when applied to the current leader. If Corbyn fails to get onto the membership ballot through lack of PLP support there will be anger among the membership and it could be very damaging for the party. If he gets on the ballot without sufficient support from the PLP and wins it probably will split the party. I support Kinnock's position and feel that Corbyn needs to get the minimum number of PLP backers to get on the ballot.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
The party is splitting. There's no doubt about that now. The battle is for control of the Labour name.
Yes. No doubt. I don't see how the party can reconcile the likes of Umuna and the current membership. They are polar opposites.
They need to start talking to big donors and to people like you who are relatively well off and able to donate up to £1000 per year without breaking the bank to get the new party off the ground.
I'm surprised that no-one has targeted Leadsom with the tag "Mother Superior"....
I am quite sad that she has made such a mess of her campaign.
While I do not agree with her right wing views I hoped she would show competency but starting with her c.v, going on to her refusal to publish four years of tax returns, and now her crass comments comparing her motherhood to Theresa May's inability to have children, she has made it clear that she is unsuitable for the highest Office in the land.
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
Don't interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake!
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
The party is splitting. There's no doubt about that now. The battle is for control of the Labour name.
Yes. No doubt. I don't see how the party can reconcile the likes of Umuna and the current membership. They are polar opposites.
Are they? Definitely? Or are you mixing up "membership" with "temporary registered supporters"? Corbyn obviously has significant support amongst the current membership. But all assumptions about how he will see off allcomers are surely based on the 3 quidders?
Eric Pickles doing a good job for Theresa on Sky.....
"I'd rather have a bloody difficult woman negotiating on our behalf rather than someone who panics at the publication of a single unfortunate headline who then proceeds to make things worse."
Quite.
That is probably the better way to play it -- more in sorrow than anger -- confirms Leadsom too inexperienced -- maybe next time.
In contrast, the OTT attacks on the minutiae risk creating a backlash of sympathy for Leadsom. I doubt many Tory members will be that exercised about her precise job titles -- she did something or other in the City and on balance it may be better if she is seen as a bureaucrat and not as an out-of-control trader in red braces. Likewise the stuff about May being childless. Yes, she shouldn't have said it but how many votes will it swing?
I'm seeing the same Remain style attitudes on display. It's very unappealing to me - and several members I know are seriously turned off by it. They aren't particularly old, religious or whatever - they're seeing a lot of coordinated attacks/sneering and don't like it.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Eagle was just 10 points behind Corbyn in a members' poll just over a week ago on 40% to Corbyn's 50%, given Corbyn got 60% last September I do not think another Corbyn landslide is a given even if he does get on the membership ballot again
Andrea Leadsom was under mounting pressure to reveal her financial affairs last night, after she failed to meet a self-imposed deadline for publishing her tax return.
The former banker had said she would release details of her tax affairs yesterday – four days after Tory leadership rival Theresa May published four years’ worth of hers.
But the plan was dropped at the last minute, and without a new date being set. A source insisted there was no problem, saying: ‘We have not fixed a date, but it won’t be long.’
The delay will heighten speculation the energy minister has ‘something to hide’.
There does seem to be a problem with her tax return - otherwise it would be published by now. She might try to get away with only publishing the latest year in heavily summarised form but it won't wash. I think it might well be a ticking bomb.
At least it will move the debate on from the mothering edge.
It could be that he tax return is totally boring and has nothing of any interest at all. In such circumstances they might be thinking that it makes sense to let a head of frothing outrage build up before release.
Could be. But if it's boring why not publish when the others did a couple of weeks ago?
My guess is that a) she got pushed into it by Marr - her initial response was clearly intended to play for time, but Marr quickly got her to yes or no, and b) she imagined it would only be last year's. May responded by publishing the last four years, as Cameron had done previously. Once Leadsom realised it would have to be the past four years, she started rowing back - on Monday she said she would only publish if she got to the final two. When she got to the final two it was reported that she had shifted again and wouldn't be making them public.
On this last point - either the source got this wrong (I definitely saw it, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring it) - or it suits the Mail et al. to continue to pin her to her original promise. Which, since it was made on live TV, is not unreasonable.
"Pushed by Marr". My god does that not say it all? If she can get bullied by that soft block of water logged soap she is not ready for the Cabinet let alone PM. Those who had understandable reservations about Boris should look on and weep.
I'm sure Boris is weeping. What a chance he had and he walked away. Will we ever learn the real reason?
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
"awful at the moment"? Is there any moment in recorded history when she has not been awful?
I haven't seen much if her, if this is who Labour are putting forwards then they are fucked. Where are Labour's big beasts.
It has to be a stalking horse strategy. No one thinks she could win an election. None of the people who really fancy a shot at it will be prepared to knife Corbyn in the front.
This is not about winning the next election, it is about avoiding the extinction of the Labour Party as a contendor for power. The Tories had to do the same when they knifed IDS and replaced him with Michael Howard, especially with the LDs hot on their heels. Labour is now probably in an even worse position under Corbyn and UKIP are snapping at their heels too
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
Lined up the NEC. That is the important one.
How difficult is it for Corbyn supporters to deselect a sitting Labour MP? Can they just put a motion to the local members or is there a drawn out process they have to follow?
I'm surprised that no-one has targeted Leadsom with the tag "Mother Superior"....
I am quite sad that she has made such a mess of her campaign.
While I do not agree with her right wing views I hoped she would show competency but starting with her c.v, going on to her refusal to publish four years of tax returns, and now her crass comments comparing her motherhood to Theresa May's inability to have children, she has made it clear that she is unsuitable for the highest Office in the land.
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
The tax returns question show Leadsom's leadership bid to be an afterthought, or she'd have made sure they were clean earlier -- as Boris did. For anyone in high office, it is a non-issue since they'd have been on PAYE with almost no scope for outside earnings.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
The party is splitting. There's no doubt about that now. The battle is for control of the Labour name.
If they were going to split, wouldn't it make more sense to use the existing co-op party. A number of MPs are already elected under that banner.
That may be how it ends. There are 25 Co-operative party members currently sitting on the Labour benches. Not many of them are Corbynistas, to say the least.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Eagle was just 10 points behind Corbyn in a members' poll just over a week ago on 40% to Corbyn's 50%, given Corbyn got 60% last September I do not think another Corbyn landslide is a given even if he does get on the membership ballot again
There have been reports of 100,000 new members in the last week or so.
Australia's centre-right Coalition has now won their election 8 days after polls closed as PM Malcolm Turnbull declares victory and opposition Labor leader Bill Shorten phoned him to concede. However the LNP may still be short of a majority, it has 74 seats which is still short of the 76 needed for a majority but it now has 3 independents supporting it on confidence and supply which takes it over the line. Labor is on 66 seats with 5 still in doubt.
Much work to be done though, on Thursday ratings agency Standard & Poor's lowered Australia's credit rating outlook from stable to negative, warning the country could lose its AAA rating unless it undertook budget repair. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36757307
It looks as if the Coalition will finish with 76 seats.
Quite possibly, whatever happens now though Turnbull will stay as PM
Mr. Max, Balls is scum. One is satisfied to have played a small role removing him from the Commons.
Edited extra bit: his failure to retain his seat was 'absolutely bloody brilliant'.
For even your small role in removing Balls from office, there should be a statue of Mr Morris Dancer in every market place in the land, put there by a grateful population.
The NEC will put Corbyn on the ballot paper. If they didn't, though, a lot of hard leftists would leave Labour, it is true. That would be a tragedy.
I'm sure your tongue is firmly in your cheek on this "tragedy" for Labour. But what would the unions do? And how would Labour cope with those leaving standing a "Real Labour" candidate in every seat - with the manpower to out-deliver and out-canvass Labour?
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
Labour is buggered for years to come whatever happens. The coalition is broken. I suspect the non-union party will get a fair amount of private donor funding.
I'm afraid I just don't buy the idea that these summer romance, £3ers, who now worship Corbyn as the second coming will last the distance once they are being asked to campaign for a completely new party (your 'Real Labour'). They wont turn up, they wont knock on doors, they wont do the boring business of running committee meetings. Yes, there'll be a few flash mobs and so on, but action in 100s of seats? The unions won't go with them. IMHO it'll never happen.
In which case that party will wither and die. The sooner the better.
I'm surprised that no-one has targeted Leadsom with the tag "Mother Superior"....
I am quite sad that she has made such a mess of her campaign.
While I do not agree with her right wing views I hoped she would show competency but starting with her c.v, going on to her refusal to publish four years of tax returns, and now her crass comments comparing her motherhood to Theresa May's inability to have children, she has made it clear that she is unsuitable for the highest Office in the land.
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
The tax returns question show Leadsom's leadership bid to be an afterthought, or she'd have made sure they were clean earlier -- as Boris did. For anyone in high office, it is a non-issue since they'd have been on PAYE with almost no scope for outside earnings.
She may still have holdings in her BTL firm which would be tough to defend. The big danger is that she has interests that haven't been declared to the house register. I'd imagine this is the problem. I'm not saying it's malicious, it's more than likely a case of boneheadedness.
After reading several posts yesterday re Labour MPs joining the LDs en masse as an escape pod from Corbyn - I was really struck by one thing.
Why would the LDs want this? Labour taking over as a Party Within A Party? Forcing a change of leader to elect their man? Destroying whatever identity the LDs still have?
Sounds a lot like Momentun and Labour to me. I hope the LDs have looked at their leadership election rules and ensured that they can't be infiltrated by those planning a hostile takeover.
Why did they let David Owen come over ? The reason is, ideologically there is very little difference between , say, Chuka Umunna and Tim Farron. In fact, most of the Blairite right could even be in the same party as Anna Soubry.
On some matters, the LDs are to the left [ as are the SNP ] of many Labour MPs.
You have supported Leave. Where do you place Gisela on the ideological scale ?
Those who say the UKIP will sweep the North misses one point. The SNP ejected Labour not just because of independence, but also they attacked Labour from the Left. UKIP will not be doing that. Apart from driving out foreigners, they have absolutely nothing in common. Agreed they will get a higher share of the vote and hand over a few seats to the Tories.
You're muddling your history.
The LibDems was created not from a group of exiles joining an existing party, but from a merger of two parties (the Liberals and the SDP). I believe that Owen opposed this, but one person joining subsequently, even in a leadership position, is different to a wholesale takeover of the organisation.
I'm surprised that no-one has targeted Leadsom with the tag "Mother Superior"....
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Eagle was just 10 points behind Corbyn in a members' poll just over a week ago on 40% to Corbyn's 50%, given Corbyn got 60% last September I do not think another Corbyn landslide is a given even if he does get on the membership ballot again
For all the froth on here I'd be interested to know how many PBers actually have a vote in the tory bunfight, I'd be surprised if it was more than a handful. I'm looking forward to the Ukip contest, I absolutely guarantee more decency.
Do you know what's put Nuttall off from standing?
I don't know him but I know the Ukip MEPs are very close, I'm sure they will be looking at the Tory infighting and be determined to not to split the party in such an unedifying spectacle.
I'm very confident Stephen Woolfe will win, a top bloke, few on here will be able to shout yah boo in the way they do at Nigel, doubtless they'll try.
After reading several posts yesterday re Labour MPs joining the LDs en masse as an escape pod from Corbyn - I was really struck by one thing.
Why would the LDs want this? Labour taking over as a Party Within A Party? Forcing a change of leader to elect their man? Destroying whatever identity the LDs still have?
Sounds a lot like Momentun and Labour to me. I hope the LDs have looked at their leadership election rules and ensured that they can't be infiltrated by those planning a hostile takeover.
Why did they let David Owen come over ? The reason is, ideologically there is very little difference between , say, Chuka Umunna and Tim Farron. In fact, most of the Blairite right could even be in the same party as Anna Soubry.
On some matters, the LDs are to the left [ as are the SNP ] of many Labour MPs.
You have supported Leave. Where do you place Gisela on the ideological scale ?
Those who say the UKIP will sweep the North misses one point. The SNP ejected Labour not just because of independence, but also they attacked Labour from the Left. UKIP will not be doing that. Apart from driving out foreigners, they have absolutely nothing in common. Agreed they will get a higher share of the vote and hand over a few seats to the Tories.
You're muddling your history.
The LibDems was created not from a group of exiles joining an existing party, but from a merger of two parties (the Liberals and the SDP). I believe that Owen opposed this, but one person joining subsequently, even in a leadership position, is different to a wholesale takeover of the organisation.
Lord Owen has never been in the Liberal Democrats, I think?
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Eagle was just 10 points behind Corbyn in a members' poll just over a week ago on 40% to Corbyn's 50%, given Corbyn got 60% last September I do not think another Corbyn landslide is a given even if he does get on the membership ballot again
There have been reports of 100,000 new members in the last week or so.
twitter.com/IainMcNicol/status/751431080977235968
Are they all Momentum though, Labour moderates have also been pushing to get supporters signed up!
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
"awful at the moment"? Is there any moment in recorded history when she has not been awful?
I haven't seen much if her, if this is who Labour are putting forwards then they are fucked. Where are Labour's big beasts.
He lost his seat. A moment's amusement, a major public loss. Bit like Portillo really.
It's sad that Balls is considered a big beast.
The man who kept us out of the Euro. I would be quite sanguine about a Labour Party led by him in the current position as an alternative government if May lets her authoritarian streak run away with itself.
Mr. Max, Balls is scum. One is satisfied to have played a small role removing him from the Commons.
Edited extra bit: his failure to retain his seat was 'absolutely bloody brilliant'.
For even your small role in removing Balls from office, there should be a statue of Mr Morris Dancer in every market place in the land, put there by a grateful population.
Fairly or unfairly, people don't take to Balls in the same way they don't like Gove or Osborne. His vital role in keeping us out of the Euro notwithstanding, and that he was right about Osborne flat-lining the economy.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
Lined up the NEC. That is the important one.
How difficult is it for Corbyn supporters to deselect a sitting Labour MP? Can they just put a motion to the local members or is there a drawn out process they have to follow?
Deselections would have to follow a Corbyn victory.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
Eagle was just 10 points behind Corbyn in a members' poll just over a week ago on 40% to Corbyn's 50%, given Corbyn got 60% last September I do not think another Corbyn landslide is a given even if he does get on the membership ballot again
There have been reports of 100,000 new members in the last week or so.
twitter.com/IainMcNicol/status/751431080977235968
I hope they are checking very carefully whether these people actually exist. The rumours are that most of them are Corbynista. Seriously? a hundred thousand people woke up after the EU referendum and thought the answer is to support Corbyn?
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
Lined up the NEC. That is the important one.
How difficult is it for Corbyn supporters to deselect a sitting Labour MP? Can they just put a motion to the local members or is there a drawn out process they have to follow?
My bet is that the plan is:
- Eagle starts the formal process tomorrow - NEC says Corbyn needs nominations - Corbyn won't pursue this through the courts - Corbyn can't get enough nominations to stand, nor can any other hard lefty - other candidates enter the race, Eagle drops out or soft pedals - new leader elected, hopefully somebody the MPs can stomach - if lots of lefties leave, so much the better - how much damage can the lefties do, compared to the damage/risk of the other options? - they have the brand, most of members, unions and money - hope the whole fuss dies down given the big government issues in store
I am not saying they can pull this off, or that they won't find the cost or risk is bigger than they think. But I am sure it is the plan.
There does seem to be a problem with her tax return - otherwise it would be published by now. She might try to get away with only publishing the latest year in heavily summarised form but it won't wash. I think it might well be a ticking bomb.
At least it will move the debate on from the mothering edge.
It could be that he tax return is totally boring and has nothing of any interest at all. In such circumstances they might be thinking that it makes sense to let a head of frothing outrage build up before release.
Could be. But if it's boring why not publish when the others did a couple of weeks ago?
My guess is that a) she got pushed into it by Marr - her initial response was clearly intended to play for time, but Marr quickly got her to yes or no, and b) she imagined it would only be last year's. May responded by publishing the last four years, as Cameron had done previously. Once Leadsom realised it would have to be the past four years, she started rowing back - on Monday she said she would only publish if she got to the final two. When she got to the final two it was reported that she had shifted again and wouldn't be making them public.
On this last point - either the source got this wrong (I definitely saw it, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring it) - or it suits the Mail et al. to continue to pin her to her original promise. Which, since it was made on live TV, is not unreasonable.
"Pushed by Marr". My god does that not say it all? If she can get bullied by that soft block of water logged soap she is not ready for the Cabinet let alone PM. Those who had understandable reservations about Boris should look on and weep.
I'm sure Boris is weeping. What a chance he had and he walked away. Will we ever learn the real reason?
It looks and sounds like a failure of nerve. A more genuinely confident man would have told Gove to piss off and carried on regardless.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
Angela Eagle is useless and has accomplished virtually nothing throughout her entire time in parliament. - She also appears to have more balls than the rest ot the Labour MPs put together – credit, where credit is due.
Yep, she knows she is in for a shit storm and if it comes to a ballot she cannot win but she is doing it anyway to try and force Corbyn and his followers out before it is too late. Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
IMRC, Eagle’s deferred timetable to launch her leadership bid was at the behest of Tom Watson while he negotiated with the Unions. Another casualty of this crisis is Watson himself, his credentials as Labour’s main powerbroker has been severely tarnished with his abject failure to cut any deal with the Unions. Watson is not the kingpin we thought he was.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
Lined up the NEC. That is the important one.
How difficult is it for Corbyn supporters to deselect a sitting Labour MP? Can they just put a motion to the local members or is there a drawn out process they have to follow?
My bet is that the plan is:
- Eagle starts the formal process tomorrow - NEC says Corbyn needs nominations - Corbyn won't pursue this through the courts - Corbyn can't get enough nominations to stand, nor can any other hard lefty - other candidates enter the race, Eagle drops out or soft pedals - new leader elected, hopefully somebody the MPs can stomach - if lots of lefties leave, so much the better - how much damage can the lefties do, compared to the damage/risk of the other options? - hope the whole fuss dies down given the big government issues in store
I am not saying they can pull this off, or that they won't find the cost or risk is bigger than they think. But I am sure it is the plan.
Not sure the 'not pursuing through the courts' bit isn't going to happen.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
"awful at the moment"? Is there any moment in recorded history when she has not been awful?
I haven't seen much if her, if this is who Labour are putting forwards then they are fucked. Where are Labour's big beasts.
He lost his seat. A moment's amusement, a major public loss. Bit like Portillo really.
It's sad that Balls is considered a big beast.
The man who kept us out of the Euro. I would be quite sanguine about a Labour Party led by him in the current position as an alternative government if May lets her authoritarian streak run away with itself.
Still not a big beast though. It feels like Labour don't have any big beasts. Even we're pretty thin on the ground. Ken Clark, Boris, Hammond, May and Fallon qualify as big beasts to me, you'd probably add Osborne, but Clark is on his way out and Boris could be irreparably damaged.
If the answer to Labour's problems are Angela Eagle then they are asking the wrong questions. She is awful at the moment.
The party is splitting. There's no doubt about that now. The battle is for control of the Labour name.
Yes. No doubt. I don't see how the party can reconcile the likes of Umuna and the current membership. They are polar opposites.
They need to start talking to big donors and to people like you who are relatively well off and able to donate up to £1000 per year without breaking the bank to get the new party off the ground.
Yep - they'll need time. The longer a GE is not called, the better it will be. There are lessons to learn from the SDP's failure to work FPTP effectively.
Eagle is as good as conceding that the plan is to deny Corbyn a place in the election. My guess is that they have delayed until they think they have this lined up already.
There's been very little evidence of planning in the PLP's antics so far.
Lined up the NEC. That is the important one.
How difficult is it for Corbyn supporters to deselect a sitting Labour MP? Can they just put a motion to the local members or is there a drawn out process they have to follow?
My bet is that the plan is:
- Eagle starts the formal process tomorrow - NEC says Corbyn needs nominations - Corbyn won't pursue this through the courts - Corbyn can't get enough nominations to stand, nor can any other hard lefty - other candidates enter the race, Eagle drops out or soft pedals - new leader elected, hopefully somebody the MPs can stomach - if lots of lefties leave, so much the better - how much damage can the lefties do, compared to the damage/risk of the other options? - hope the whole fuss dies down given the big government issues in store
I am not saying they can pull this off, or that they won't find the cost or risk is bigger than they think. But I am sure it is the plan.
Not sure the 'not pursuing through the courts' bit isn't going to happen.
Yes, I put that in because it is the only way out I can see for Corbyn. But it's double or quits, the double being a lot more damage and risk.
Edit/ and of course if it is Corbyn v the Labour Party, the NEC authorises the legal costs for the defence, Corbyn is exposed to his and their costs. As so often with the law, being right isn't enough, if you don't have the £ to get justice. And this one hangs on interpreting ambiguous wording, could go either way.
Comments
What crap are you talking ? Just say you meant only the "white bit" of the Commonwealth and we will all understand what you really wanted to say.
If he is automatically not a shoe-in, then he resigns. So the nomination trigger becomes 15%, i.e. 40 like last time.
Clause 8, para 4 says "The NEC shall have the power to adjudicate in disputes that may arise at any level of the party, including between CLPs, affiliated organisations and other party units, and between CLPs, other party units and individuals in those units and in disputes which occur between individual members or within the party organisation. Where the rules do not meet the particular circumstances, the NEC may have regard to national or local custom and practice as the case may require. The NEC’s decisions shall be final and binding on all organisations, units and individuals concerned."
So this dispute is in the hands of the 33 members of the NEC. I don't know what the balance is on the NEC. However if Corbyn is denied a place on the ballot by legal shenanigans, there really will be an explosion of anger and the destruction of the Labour Party - their own nuclear weapon that they can't use.
It's also a bit hard to claim the democratic high ground on the stance that winning 37% of the electorate means you should have untramelled power and never have to compromise with other chunks of the electorate.
If democratic legitimacy is so important, adopt a PR electoral system (and no - not AV!).
Otherwise, if the set up is such that you accept the benefits for your side (37% can give a majority), accept the drawbacks as well - such as having to compromise with other parties if you can't even secure that 37%
"I'd rather have a bloody difficult woman negotiating on our behalf rather than someone who panics at the publication of a single unfortunate headline who then proceeds to make things worse."
Quite.
But there's almost consensus now that the only other option the MPs have (since they can hardly go back to being loyal) involves splitting or leaving the party. Maybe they are reaching the position where going nuclear seems unavoidable?
For those who think Leadsom will negotiate the Country out of the EU I would suggest she would have the very opposite effect by creating animosity within her own party and in the wider context the Country. Ironically this could result in a substantial move by voters in regretting leaving, and an absolute determination by the majority of MP's and the House of Lords to stall the process.
In any respect she will not be able to serve article 50 without her cabinet's approval at the very least, and probably a vote in the HOC, which she would stand a big risk of losing and becoming a lame duck PM with no power.
In the case of Theresa May her steely determination and substantial support, not only in the party, but also in the country, would see us exit in a way that protects the economy and establishes good relationships with heads of governments Europe wide. I would expect her to bypass Juncker and deal direct with Merkel, Hollande et al.
So to all Brexiteers, if you want this to happen support Theresa May as anything else could be very detrimental to the need for us to leave the EU
I did say in the thread header This is one of those horrible for punters markets where the bookie has probably priced it right.
Keeping him off the ballot would surely provoke outrage, a legal challenge, seriously piss off the unions and risks splitting the party. Which would make it very hard for Labour to win- and presumably would defeat the point of removing Corbyn for electability reasons.
No, probably can't do that. Leadership challenge like Art50: once started, can't go back to regular rules.
FWIW, Corbyn will be on the ballot paper. On basic common sense, it would be bizarre to have a system to enable the Leader to be challenged, but then not even allow the Leader to defend himself from that challenge. Otherwise, it is just a mechanism for a coup, not a challenge.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-foreign-offices-seismic-error-is-also-a-landmark-opportunity-ljnpt0hjh
What's fascinating to me is that when the loony left threatens to swamp the party, it is always Kinnock who comes to the fore to fight them.
Even though he was never prime minister, he was and remains a pivotal figure in the movement.
and for that he deserves much credit.
A new leader would then start business. First task is to block deselection, change the rules on that or whatever needs to be done. Corbyn and co may well resign the Labour whip and sit as a separate grouping at this point. Labour might split, but the split would be Corbyn and perhaps 20 or so, effectively SWP types. They would be powerless.
It seems to me that the rebels have to win this autumn in order to stop deselections or then it will be too late for at least a decade.
Corbyn resigns that morning before the NEC meets.
In contrast, the OTT attacks on the minutiae risk creating a backlash of sympathy for Leadsom. I doubt many Tory members will be that exercised about her precise job titles -- she did something or other in the City and on balance it may be better if she is seen as a bureaucrat and not as an out-of-control trader in red braces. Likewise the stuff about May being childless. Yes, she shouldn't have said it but how many votes will it swing?
Could have done this sooner but at least she has the guts to do it at all....I am looking at you Tom Watson!
I'd be surprised if the date of exit isn't (a relatively uncontroversial) point of negotiation.
That, for instance, say Article 50 was triggered on the 17th September 2017.
I wouldn't be surprised if they negotiated that the exit date wasn't 17th September 2019 but another date: 31 December 2019 or 5 April 2020 for example.
If it's the 31 December 2019 then "the first full day outside the EU" screws up the 2019 bet.
While I do not agree with her right wing views I hoped she would show competency but starting with her c.v, going on to her refusal to publish four years of tax returns, and now her crass comments comparing her motherhood to Theresa May's inability to have children, she has made it clear that she is unsuitable for the highest Office in the land.
I hear the seagulls high pitched squawking outside my balcony and they seem to reflect the panic in Andrea's campaign, but the calmness of the sea beyond seems to reflect the way Theresa has gracefully remained silent.
Local assets are owned by CLPs.
There is no point having a rule within the system to ensure that a leader has a minimum level of support amongst the parliamentary party if it is ignored when applied to the current leader. If Corbyn fails to get onto the membership ballot through lack of PLP support there will be anger among the membership and it could be very damaging for the party. If he gets on the ballot without sufficient support from the PLP and wins it probably will split the party. I support Kinnock's position and feel that Corbyn needs to get the minimum number of PLP backers to get on the ballot.
They need to start talking to big donors and to people like you who are relatively well off and able to donate up to £1000 per year without breaking the bank to get the new party off the ground.
Quite right. Excellent post that does you great credit.
Edited extra bit: his failure to retain his seat was 'absolutely bloody brilliant'.
twitter.com/IainMcNicol/status/751431080977235968
The LibDems was created not from a group of exiles joining an existing party, but from a merger of two parties (the Liberals and the SDP). I believe that Owen opposed this, but one person joining subsequently, even in a leadership position, is different to a wholesale takeover of the organisation.
Anything you can share?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/leadsoms-resume-controversy-overblown-her-former-supervisor-says-1468000457
Screenshot https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm8xfdSWgAAkPjg.jpg
- Eagle starts the formal process tomorrow
- NEC says Corbyn needs nominations
- Corbyn won't pursue this through the courts
- Corbyn can't get enough nominations to stand, nor can any other hard lefty
- other candidates enter the race, Eagle drops out or soft pedals
- new leader elected, hopefully somebody the MPs can stomach
- if lots of lefties leave, so much the better
- how much damage can the lefties do, compared to the damage/risk of the other options?
- they have the brand, most of members, unions and money
- hope the whole fuss dies down given the big government issues in store
I am not saying they can pull this off, or that they won't find the cost or risk is bigger than they think. But I am sure it is the plan.
Edit/ and of course if it is Corbyn v the Labour Party, the NEC authorises the legal costs for the defence, Corbyn is exposed to his and their costs. As so often with the law, being right isn't enough, if you don't have the £ to get justice. And this one hangs on interpreting ambiguous wording, could go either way.