"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
You are entitled to your positivity (comrade- he said timidly). The Belgium match ranks as one of the 3 best home country matches I have ever seen. 1996- England against Holland. 1978 Scotland vs Holland.
Your anthem touches the hairs on the back of my neck
Thanks Tyson. My late Father in Law from the Scotland always said it was the most stirring anthem. You should listen to my young grand children singing it in Welsh - it brings tears to the eyes. And yes I am sure you didn't really mean to address us as 'comrade'
The best national anthem in the world? It's a straight fight between France and Wales.
Could well be the final too.
I think you are right on that one (both tingle the hairs on the back of my neck), though the Italian anthem is lyrical, joyous and fun. And the Star Spangled Banner deserves a mention.
Sadly, the Northern Irish Anthem is utterly dire.
Is it The Londonderry Air (Oh Danny Boy)?
I believe the NI anthem is sung to the tune of the American patriotic song My Country 'Tis Of Thee.
You are entitled to your positivity (comrade- he said timidly). The Belgium match ranks as one of the 3 best home country matches I have ever seen. 1996- England against Holland. 1978 Scotland vs Holland.
Your anthem touches the hairs on the back of my neck
Thanks Tyson. My late Father in Law from the Scotland always said it was the most stirring anthem. You should listen to my young grand children singing it in Welsh - it brings tears to the eyes. And yes I am sure you didn't really mean to address us as 'comrade'
The best national anthem in the world? It's a straight fight between France and Wales.
Could well be the final too.
Agree with France 2nd like next Wednesday
You think Germany will beat them?
Germany will beat France. They were awesome last night....better than the 7-1 against Brazil.
Last nights match Germany vs Italy was the match the final needed. Sadly, the rest of the competition will be a German walkover.
Agreed, Germany now dominates European football with France runner-up, much like the EU really!
Rosberg to blame but he disagrees with stewards enquiry. Rosberg given 2 penalty points and 10 second time penalty but as he was 14 seconds ahead of the driver behind he keeps 4th place.
The stewards' verdict in full:
Reprimand for "The driver continued on the track with a damaged car spreading debris and with the front wing detached" but recognition of extenuating circumstances, that he slowed down and tried to mitigate risk to other drivers and cars.
10s penalty for causing a collision with car 44 in Turn 2. "Having taken note of the extensive evidence given by both drivers and the video and telemetry data, it was apparent that Car 44 (HAM) was in front of Car 6 (ROS) - i.e. more than fully alongside - and that the driver of Car 44 could have clearly made the turn (T2) on the track, if not for the resultant collision. Car 6 did not allow Car 44 "racing room" and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision
You are entitled to your positivity (comrade- he said timidly). The Belgium match ranks as one of the 3 best home country matches I have ever seen. 1996- England against Holland. 1978 Scotland vs Holland.
Your anthem touches the hairs on the back of my neck
Thanks Tyson. My late Father in Law from the Scotland always said it was the most stirring anthem. You should listen to my young grand children singing it in Welsh - it brings tears to the eyes. And yes I am sure you didn't really mean to address us as 'comrade'
The best national anthem in the world? It's a straight fight between France and Wales.
Could well be the final too.
I think you are right on that one (both tingle the hairs on the back of my neck), though the Italian anthem is lyrical, joyous and fun. And the Star Spangled Banner deserves a mention.
Sadly, the Northern Irish Anthem is utterly dire.
Is it The Londonderry Air (Oh Danny Boy)?
We've had this debate before. The Welsh clearly win, worldwide, on the best anthem and flag combination (tho the Union Jack was deemed to be the better flag, and the European Union- Ode to Joy - has the better anthem)
But as a combo, the Welsh win.
We agree on that and I have had neither sex or alcohol
Gove has shortened in last hour on Betfair - in from about 20 to 13.
Are Brexit MPs thinking Leadsom will have no chance v May in members ballot and thus thinking they may vote Gove, despite events of the last week.
Whatever drawbacks he has, Gove is well known, experienced and has the credibility to be a PM. He might well still lose to May with the members but he might stand a better chance than Leadsom.
You are entitled to your positivity (comrade- he said timidly). The Belgium match ranks as one of the 3 best home country matches I have ever seen. 1996- England against Holland. 1978 Scotland vs Holland.
Your anthem touches the hairs on the back of my neck
Thanks Tyson. My late Father in Law from the Scotland always said it was the most stirring anthem. You should listen to my young grand children singing it in Welsh - it brings tears to the eyes. And yes I am sure you didn't really mean to address us as 'comrade'
The best national anthem in the world? It's a straight fight between France and Wales.
Could well be the final too.
Agree with France 2nd like next Wednesday
You think Germany will beat them?
They need to improve on their penalties to stand a chance
The triggering of article 50 will, at the very least, be a cabinet decision and in view of the differing opinions, I cannot see Andrea Leadsom, in the unlikely event of her becoming PM, being able to trigger it on election to the post. I cannot see it happening before January 2017 and probably later.
It will be interesting to see if the HOC demand a say and how they formulate that.
This is one of the reasons I think a Brexiteer as PM could well have a negative impact on the process and that Theresa May would have much more of a chance of carrying the Country with her.
As has been said before 'this is no time for a novice'
The Cabinet does not have the constitutional authority which Article 50 requires.
Just when you think that the football cannot get any more embarrassing for England France show what Iceland are really like. Not very good. Better than England but not good.
So you are saying that HQ affects only affect Scotland negatively? Because that would be massively simplistic. Also are you saying that the HQ would then move? Because if Scotland was independent then Diageo would still be in London and have their corporation tax charged in the rUK. Also, what do you mean by tax differentials? Income tax, corp tax (which I assumed above) or other taxes?
Don't get me wrong, I in know way am saying GERs is written in stone but it is the closest we have to an accurate picture.
In the UK, London has a disproportionate share of head offices and it effects every region (not just Scotland). Diageo is merely a very obvious example. Yes there are counter-examples such as SSE but I think it is hard to argue that overall, the tax differential is not in London's favour. As I said previously, I don't expect big effects, but some effect and negatively to Scotland.
Even if Diageo retained their HQ in London, a tax border between England and Scotland would require them to declare earnings in Scotland for which they would pay Corp Tax.
You are right that GERS is the best measure we have. But it is an incredibly poor model even for measuring the current fiscal framework. It is an exceptionally poor model for predicting the fiscal position of an Independent Scotland.
But that would be true in the future, the HQ's wouldn't move they would stay put.
Eh? So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit now? Erm, good luck with getting any international firms to produce in Scotland after that.
I think it is the model of best fit for now, but not a great predictor. But even if it is a certain % out it clearly shows an iScotland would be in a lot of trouble in the short to medium term.
No, it doesn;t show that Scotland would be in trouble if she were independent.
It still doesn't even touch the spending adjustments which are not only much larger but much easier to identify. £10bn on day one is pretty easy to expect, depending on how well Scotland uses its negotiating position (which is a lot stronger than you probably expect).
It really does, unless the figures are out by £5bn to Scotlands advantage.
Such as? Scotland will have no currency and no real reserves to create one, a massive customer in the rUK which it depends on exporting to, two rather large banks it cannot underwrite and a large budget deficit....strong eh?
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
So you are saying that HQ affects only affect Scotland negatively? Because that would be massively simplistic. Also are you saying that the HQ would then move? Because if Scotland was independent then Diageo would still be in London and have their corporation tax charged in the rUK. Also, what do you mean by tax differentials? Income tax, corp tax (which I assumed above) or other taxes?
Don't get me wrong, I in know way am saying GERs is written in stone but it is the closest we have to an accurate picture.
In the UK, London has a disproportionate share of head offices and it effects every region (not just Scotland). Diageo is merely a very obvious example. Yes there are counter-examples such as SSE but I think it is hard to argue that overall, the tax differential is not in London's favour. As I said previously, I don't expect big effects, but some effect and negatively to Scotland.
Even if Diageo retained their HQ in London, a tax border between England and Scotland would require them to declare earnings in Scotland for which they would pay Corp Tax.
You are right that GERS is the best measure we have. But it is an incredibly poor model even for measuring the current fiscal framework. It is an exceptionally poor model for predicting the fiscal position of an Independent Scotland.
But that would be true in the future, the HQ's wouldn't move they would stay put.
Eh? So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit now? Erm, good luck with getting any international firms to produce in Scotland after that.
I think it is the model of best fit for now, but not a great predictor. But even if it is a certain % out it clearly shows an iScotland would be in a lot of trouble in the short to medium term.
No, it doesn;t show that Scotland would be in trouble if she were independent.
It still doesn't even touch the spending adjustments which are not only much larger but much easier to identify. £10bn on day one is pretty easy to expect, depending on how well Scotland uses its negotiating position (which is a lot stronger than you probably expect).
It really does, unless the figures are out by £5bn to Scotlands advantage.
Such as? Scotland will have no currency and no real reserves to create one, a massive customer in the rUK which it depends on exporting to, two rather large banks it cannot underwrite and a large budget deficit....strong eh?
The Costs could be out by more than £10bn.
But they might also not be, as well as the revenue might be lower etc etc.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Gove if Gove vs May, May if May vs anyone else...
She was poor on Marr this morning prevaricating about her tax return and refusing to rule out Farage's involvement. Her closeness to Arron Banks and leave.eu will be the end for her credibility
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
She was poor on Marr this morning prevaricating about her tax return and refusing to rule out Farage's involvement. Her closeness to Arron Banks and leave.eu will be the end for her credibility
I see Leadsom's 24 hours of fame are over and the knives are out for her from the pro-May camp which is basically the pro-Cameron anti-anyone connected with LEAVE camp.
Far from Crabb being Continuity Cameron, it now seems the dissident pro-EU Cameroons are lining up behind May in an attempt to slow or even stop the process of withdrawal.
So much for the Referendum lancing the Tory boil and settling the argument - in that regard, all the time and effort has been for naught. Cameron has destroyed his own political career for nothing at all.
We now have at least three factions inside the Conservative Party - the pro-EU dissidents, the EEA/EFTA grouping which wants to keep the Single Market and FoM and those determined to end FoM at all costs. The second faction is probably in the ascendancy but May will have to play a careful game balancing these forces just as every Conservative leader has since Thatcher and it's not ended that well for any of them.
Still, as Bruce Forsyth would have said in 1331:
"Nicaea to besiege you, to besiege you, Nicaea".
That's one from the Patriachate of Constantinople's joke book.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Will be in Cortona for two weeks from 23rd July with my family and grand children. And the best bit is we paid for the holiday at 1.29 euros and bought all our euros at 1.26, two days before the referendum
The triggering of article 50 will, at the very least, be a cabinet decision and in view of the differing opinions, I cannot see Andrea Leadsom, in the unlikely event of her becoming PM, being able to trigger it on election to the post. I cannot see it happening before January 2017 and probably later.
It will be interesting to see if the HOC demand a say and how they formulate that.
This is one of the reasons I think a Brexiteer as PM could well have a negative impact on the process and that Theresa May would have much more of a chance of carrying the Country with her.
As has been said before 'this is no time for a novice'
The Cabinet does not have the constitutional authority which Article 50 requires.
Please explain the bit in the UK constitution that limits HMG from signing new or complying with existing international treaties. I cannot think of anything that has such an effect.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Ah yes, I love that Tom Waits cover. Yes there is a hidden sadness in Waltzing Matilda which makes it doubly powerful, alongside its rousing singability in the surging chorus. Perfect for an anthem.
Jerusalem has the same poignancy but with better words (tho it is much harder to sing). A good version of Jerusalem nearly always makes my eyes moisten, whereas God Save the Queen nearly always doesn't.
Men of Harlech in Zulu? OMG
Back to Matilda, if I HAD to choose a different nationality (I am proudly Cornish, British and english) then it wouldn't be European, and it certainly wouldn't be American. I'd be Australian. They have the bright future, now: in the best part of the world, economically, but with the English language, English law, English freedoms, and a magnificent landscape. And excellent oysters.
My younger daughter, who lives north of Sydney, is a lucky girl.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Picking up slightly here. First day in ages without rain.
And we in the NHS have an extra £350 million per week headed our way under PM Gove.
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
A 2% revenue tax (without any allowances or rebates) replacing a 20% corp tax would be a very useful and positive step in terms of the whole economy. It would slash the accounting costs of business, it would eliminate tax avoidance and improve government finances overall.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
The triggering of article 50 will, at the very least, be a cabinet decision and in view of the differing opinions, I cannot see Andrea Leadsom, in the unlikely event of her becoming PM, being able to trigger it on election to the post. I cannot see it happening before January 2017 and probably later.
It will be interesting to see if the HOC demand a say and how they formulate that.
This is one of the reasons I think a Brexiteer as PM could well have a negative impact on the process and that Theresa May would have much more of a chance of carrying the Country with her.
As has been said before 'this is no time for a novice'
It's a tricky one, Big_G. Do the Conservatives go for a novice or someone who has proved to be useless at actually getting things done? Do they go for someone whose leadership skills are untested or someone whose leadership skills are known to be awful?
I don't have a vote, few people on here do, for all we bump our gums. The 150,000 or so remaining Conservative party members carry a grave responsibility. I hope they choose wisely.
I have a vote and it will be for Theresa, as I expect the majority of members will
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Picking up slightly here. First day in ages without rain.
And we in the NHS have an extra £350 million per week headed our way under PM Gove.
Fox...my heart is uplifted. We've got our Country back Comrade. We're in control. That 350m to the NHS every week, all those trade deals, we are going to smash it. I think given a few weeks or so, we can even begin to take back some of colonies. A British task force to reclaim the US, what do you think?
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
A 2% revenue tax (without any allowances or rebates) replacing a 20% corp tax would be a very useful and positive step in terms of the whole economy. It would slash the accounting costs of business, it would eliminate tax avoidance and improve government finances overall.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
A revenue tax would also hurt: new businesses, investing business, hiring businesses, and businesses in difficulties.
All of which would harm the economy, which is the real reason it won't happen.
You are entitled to your positivity (comrade- he said timidly). The Belgium match ranks as one of the 3 best home country matches I have ever seen. 1996- England against Holland. 1978 Scotland vs Holland.
Your anthem touches the hairs on the back of my neck
Thanks Tyson. My late Father in Law from the Scotland always said it was the most stirring anthem. You should listen to my young grand children singing it in Welsh - it brings tears to the eyes. And yes I am sure you didn't really mean to address us as 'comrade'
The best national anthem in the world? It's a straight fight between France and Wales.
Could well be the final too.
I think you are right on that one (both tingle the hairs on the back of my neck), though the Italian anthem is lyrical, joyous and fun. And the Star Spangled Banner deserves a mention.
Sadly, the Northern Irish Anthem is utterly dire.
Is it The Londonderry Air (Oh Danny Boy)?
No..I wish it was Oh Danny Boy. It is something appallingly awful which is almost unmentionable.
Oh Danny Boy is a magnificent song. Would make a great anthem. As would Molly Malone.
Instead Ireland and Ulster have awful dirges.
Same goes for Australia. Waltzing Matilda is glorious when sung en masse
But they might also not be, as well as the revenue might be lower etc etc.
Yes they might not. But that's not Kevin Hague's starting point on chokkablog. His position is that they are the same and this is utterly ridiculous as a starting point.
GERS includes £5.5bn for UK debt interest payments. The thing is even the UK Government doesnt pay that on a pro-rata basis because half the debt is owned by the Bank of England which does not charge the Treasury interest (but the Treasury charges Scotland interest on the full amount.
Even if Scotland is incredibly unsuccessful on negociation, the actual Independent Scotland cost of UK debt interest is less than £3bn but GERS shows £5.5bn.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Have you made it up with your Brexiting Brother?
I'm someone that can hold a grudge for all of about 23 seconds, Brexit included.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Picking up slightly here. First day in ages without rain.
And we in the NHS have an extra £350 million per week headed our way under PM Gove.
Fox...my heart is uplifted. We've got our Country back Comrade. We're in control. That 350m to the NHS every week, all those trade deals, we are going to smash it. I think given a few weeks or so, we can even begin to take back some of colonies. A British task force to reclaim the US, what do you think?
Very insightful and illuminating. I think she could be an excellent PM - she explained her (supposed) change of heart about the EU very well this morning. However it seem likely that she'll finish 2nd with MPs and then (probably by a long way) 2nd again with membership.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Picking up slightly here. First day in ages without rain.
And we in the NHS have an extra £350 million per week headed our way under PM Gove.
Fox...my heart is uplifted. We've got our Country back Comrade. We're in control. That 350m to the NHS every week, all those trade deals, we are going to smash it. I think given a few weeks or so, we can even begin to take back some of colonies. A British task force to reclaim the US, what do you think?
More likely a reverse colonisation, Trump backed Brexit and if the UK exited EFTA too a President Trump would try to draw the UK into his orbit instead
Many Leavers are worried about an 'establishment' stitch up, and how that applies to article 50 negotiations. Leadsome may well surprise and win this despite her weaknesses, as any sign of caution (or even simple lack of recklessness) from May will be presented as equivocation at best and duplicity at worst. The certainty of declaring as soon as the contest is done and dusted, and in the hands of a Leaver, may see her through.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Politics free is good for a week or two, but not for much longer I find.
Many Leavers are worried about an 'establishment' stitch up, and how that applies to article 50 negotiations. Leadsome may well surprise and win this despite her weaknesses, as any sign of caution (or even simple lack of recklessness) from May will be presented as equivocation at best and duplicity at worst. The certainty of declaring as soon as the contest is done and dusted, and in the hands of a Leaver, may see her through.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
In her first speech she said she would invoke it in 2017. I don't think we'll be allowed that length of time. Q4 this year seems most likely to me.
It's much lower than all the other large economies but much higher than the tax competitive smaller economies (and the tax havens). It seems like a completely pointless move from a man whose entire political reputation lies in tatters and whose economic nous is being exposed for worthless rhetoric.
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
A 2% revenue tax (without any allowances or rebates) replacing a 20% corp tax would be a very useful and positive step in terms of the whole economy. It would slash the accounting costs of business, it would eliminate tax avoidance and improve government finances overall.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
You'll be alright, Mr. Lowlander, there aren't that many accountants in parliament. If it had been lawyers whose livelihood is threatened then the idea would be dead in the water.
Among the many reasons why the idea of returning to an income tax for companies attracts me is that it stops the multinationals getting a free ride. They want to do business here then they can contribute to all the infrastructure spending that makes their business possible. The likes of Starbucks and Amazon to name but two using whizzy accounting tricks to offshore their profits really gets my goat.
Of course there will be some that say unless these big companies are given special status they will not invest here. To which my reply would be, "So what?". If, say, Starbucks pulled out of the UK other companies would spring up to fill the empty space in the market. Furthermore, for companies like Amazon the UK is a very big marketplace in which they earn lots of money - they are not going to pull out just because they have to pay their fair share of taxes.
Well the lawyers are having fun at least. It seems right that such a declaration would need to come from parliament, but I'm someone has a view that legally it's fine from the government. Another reason there won't be a GE, it might mess up the arithmetic for a leave vote if some troublemaker feels as they weren't in parliament at the time of the vote they don't feel bound by it for some reason (I feel the ones currently in parliament dare not hold it up if parliament does have to vote on it)
How relevant are out political parties? Well you can see on the betfair next leader markets- the betting amounts arguably reflects their relevance to the day.
There is over 2mill staked on the Tory contest. 126k on Labour, a bit piss poor.
And, what do you think about the LD's? 10 mill...no. 100k....no. It is........a sum and proud total of £46.
Many Leavers are worried about an 'establishment' stitch up, and how that applies to article 50 negotiations. Leadsome may well surprise and win this despite her weaknesses, as any sign of caution (or even simple lack of recklessness) from May will be presented as equivocation at best and duplicity at worst. The certainty of declaring as soon as the contest is done and dusted, and in the hands of a Leaver, may see her through.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
In her first speech she said she would invoke it in 2017. I don't think we'll be allowed that length of time. Q4 this year seems most likely to me.
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
A 2% revenue tax (without any allowances or rebates) replacing a 20% corp tax would be a very useful and positive step in terms of the whole economy. It would slash the accounting costs of business, it would eliminate tax avoidance and improve government finances overall.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
A revenue tax would also hurt: new businesses, investing business, hiring businesses, and businesses in difficulties.
All of which would harm the economy, which is the real reason it won't happen.
Also, it would mean that low-margin businesses (like manufacturing and retail) which employ real people would be particularly screwed.
I would also point out that we already have a revenue based tax: VAT.
You'll be alright, Mr. Lowlander, there aren't that many accountants in parliament. If it had been lawyers whose livelihood is threatened then the idea would be dead in the water.
OK fair point. But it's also one of the few areas of actual productive** use of the English Higher Education sector. You need a degree to be an accountant these days and accountancy courses are one of the few popular subjects that actually lead to jobs rather than years on the dole or minimum wage.
**obviously the idea this is a productive use of Higher Education is rather tenuous but I trust you get what I mean.
Many Leavers are worried about an 'establishment' stitch up, and how that applies to article 50 negotiations. Leadsome may well surprise and win this despite her weaknesses, as any sign of caution (or even simple lack of recklessness) from May will be presented as equivocation at best and duplicity at worst. The certainty of declaring as soon as the contest is done and dusted, and in the hands of a Leaver, may see her through.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
"an 'establishment' stitch up"
A remainer leading both main parties & Tony Blair in charge of Brexit?
Please TSE...I don't particularly like Gove, but that is scraping the barrel. Everyone likes to talk after a few bevvies. We've just had a blow by blow account of seanT's early evening activities.
The intelligence services supply intelligence. They generally don't disclose the gory details of how they got it. The only time Cheltenham lifts its skirts is when we've got new ministers that need the shit scared out of them.
Currently Labor leads the Coalition 67-65 in seats declared with Others (including Greens and Nick Xenophon) on 5.
13 seats remain to be called and Labor is ahead in 5, the Coalition in 7 and Nick Xenophon in 1 so that would produce a 72-72-6 result.
However, worth pointing out postal votes are still to be counted and these generally favour the Coalition who have traditionally had a stronger postal voting operation than Labor and in the five seats where they lead, Labor's lead is less than 1% so it's entirely possible the Coalition will get over the line or on it.
A Labor majority looks improbable but the Independents are resolutely refusing to play ball with three already saying they won't support either the Coalition or Labor and nor can be bought off with the post of Speaker.
Well, any flirting notions I had of voting for Leadsom are gone.
Have had a politics free day. What's Mrs Leadsom done?
I think politics free is the way to go. Summer is here in Italy. The sun is out, everyone is going to the seaside, SeanT is getting his end away again, we can all relax and wait for winter.
Have you made it up with your Brexiting Brother?
I'm someone that can hold a grudge for all of about 23 seconds, Brexit included.
Please TSE...I don't particularly like Gove, but that is scraping the barrel. Everyone likes to talk after a few bevvies. We've just had a blow by blow account of seanT's early evening activities.
On Friday I heard a new dawn chorus outside my house. There was a rustling and twittering, as though of starlings assembling on a branch. Then I heard a collective clearing of the throat, and they started yodelling my name – followed by various expletives. “Oi Boris – c---!” they shouted. Or “Boris – w-----!” I looked out to see some otherwise charming-looking young people, the sort who might fast to raise money for a Third World leprosy project.
"... So Scotland would charge corp tax on earnings rather than profit ..."
It wouldn't be called Corporation Tax, of course, but that is actually a very good idea. It is simple to collect, hard to evade and chops the power of the multi-nationals (as well as their costs). The rate needs to be set at the right level to make it fair for both parties, but overall I think it a sound scheme. It is also not unheard of, until 1964 it was how companies were taxed in the UK.
Oh yes, if it was unilateral then it would work but if only Scotland enacted it then a whole new industry would just spring up in avoiding it.
Think of it as a sales tax, Mr. O, you make a sale then there is an invoice the government takes n% of the amount on that invoice. Very hard to evade once you get above the cowboy builder level.
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
A 2% revenue tax (without any allowances or rebates) replacing a 20% corp tax would be a very useful and positive step in terms of the whole economy. It would slash the accounting costs of business, it would eliminate tax avoidance and improve government finances overall.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
A revenue tax would also hurt: new businesses, investing business, hiring businesses, and businesses in difficulties.
All of which would harm the economy, which is the real reason it won't happen.
I don't buy that argument I am afraid. Individuals don't get to offset their tax liability because they are going broke, or starting up a new household, or thousands of other reasons. HMRC demand their cut whatever our personal circumstances might be. Why should corporations be any different? They didn't used to be.
Civil service drafting is terrible. It's the standard complaint of anyone with commercial experience when they come into contact with it. I can't hold that against Leadsom, even if I think she's basically undercooked when it comes to being a credible PM.
For those of you interested here is Edinburgh's EU Referendum result broken down by Westminster Constituency
East constituency: 44,020 votes - 72% remain (31,821 votes); 28% leave (12,153 votes) North & Leith constituency: 57,099 votes - 78% remain (44,618); 22% leave (12,435 votes) South constituency: 47,649 votes - 78% remain (37,069 votes); 22% leave (10,549 votes) South West constituency: 50,308 votes - 72% remain (36,269 votes); 28% leave (14,008 votes) West constituency: 53,405 votes - 71% remain (38,019 votes); 29% leave (15,353 votes)
And here's the Scottish Independence Vote Area total Yes No Yes% No% East 58,232 27,500 30,632 47% 53% North and Leith 72,181 28,813 43,253 40% 60% South 58,738 20,340 38,298 35% 65% South West 64,249 24,659 39,509 38% 61% West 65,625 22,615 42,946 34% 65%
Currently Labor leads the Coalition 67-65 in seats declared with Others (including Greens and Nick Xenophon) on 5.
13 seats remain to be called and Labor is ahead in 5, the Coalition in 7 and Nick Xenophon in 1 so that would produce a 72-72-6 result.
However, worth pointing out postal votes are still to be counted and these generally favour the Coalition who have traditionally had a stronger postal voting operation than Labor and in the five seats where they lead, Labor's lead is less than 1% so it's entirely possible the Coalition will get over the line or on it.
A Labor majority looks improbable but the Independents are resolutely refusing to play ball with three already saying they won't support either the Coalition or Labor and nor can be bought off with the post of Speaker.
Plenty of fuel left in this fire.
The Libs have seriously underperformed predictions on transfers losing 6 predicted wins so far. It is quite possible they might have underperformed on postal votes as well.
To which the obvious question must be, if he thought UK exports could be increased by him getting out on the road why the fuck hasn't he been doing it for the last 12 months?
Either this story is bollocks or Javid has been an even bigger disappointment than I thought.
"So 17 million people voted for a revolutionary change in the way we are governed, and the result is going to be Theresa May. These ignored multitudes were not, I think, hoping for yet another Blairite robot, a living symbol of everything that is wrong with our political system. But this is what they are going to get. I am sure Mrs May is a perfectly nice person and an ideal neighbour. But this is not the point. She is completely unfitted to answer the national demand for change. She is a conventional Left-wing liberal. She wanted, for heaven’s sake, to stay in the EU, though she lacked the nerve to campaign actively for this. Given the growing campaign to overturn the referendum by guile and fear, can she be trusted not to fudge us back in?"
Many Leavers are worried about an 'establishment' stitch up, and how that applies to article 50 negotiations. Leadsome may well surprise and win this despite her weaknesses, as any sign of caution (or even simple lack of recklessness) from May will be presented as equivocation at best and duplicity at worst. The certainty of declaring as soon as the contest is done and dusted, and in the hands of a Leaver, may see her through.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
"an 'establishment' stitch up"
A remainer leading both main parties & Tony Blair in charge of Brexit?
Circle the wagons!
I have heard it said in recent days that Gove is not a Brexiter, he was a Cameron plant solely to destroy Boris, and that only with a true leaver can we stop all immigration and kick out those already here. I am hoping the less strict Leave option wins out, its the version I want, there are plenty angry enough and paranoid enough to be suspicious of anything.
On Friday I heard a new dawn chorus outside my house. There was a rustling and twittering, as though of starlings assembling on a branch. Then I heard a collective clearing of the throat, and they started yodelling my name – followed by various expletives. “Oi Boris – c---!” they shouted. Or “Boris – w-----!” I looked out to see some otherwise charming-looking young people, the sort who might fast to raise money for a Third World leprosy project.
Boris back on form. Amazing what a few nights rest can do for a bloke. I never thought he looked frightened after the referendum. I thought he looked absolutely fucking knackered. Hence his completely incoherent column last week.
Civil service drafting is terrible. It's the standard complaint of anyone with commercial experience when they come into contact with it. I can't hold that against Leadsom, even if I think she's basically undercooked when it comes to being a credible PM.
It's the compliant of every lawyer vs every other lawyer, though.
To which the obvious question must be, if he thought UK exports could be increased by him getting out on the road why the fuck hasn't he been doing it for the last 12 months?
Either this story is bollocks or Javid has been an even bigger disappointment than I thought.
Civil service drafting is terrible. It's the standard complaint of anyone with commercial experience when they come into contact with it. I can't hold that against Leadsom, even if I think she's basically undercooked when it comes to being a credible PM.
Agreed.
If the drafting is anything like the quotes to journos - I'm not at all surprised.
E.G. 'Monomaniacal' about the EU. Oh, and also didn't like the drafting.
Comments
http://tinyurl.com/h8ocb29
The stewards' verdict in full:
Reprimand for "The driver continued on the track with a damaged car spreading debris and with the front wing detached" but recognition of extenuating circumstances, that he slowed down and tried to mitigate risk to other drivers and cars.
10s penalty for causing a collision with car 44 in Turn 2. "Having taken note of the extensive evidence given by both drivers and the video and telemetry data, it was apparent that Car 44 (HAM) was in front of Car 6 (ROS) - i.e. more than fully alongside - and that the driver of Car 44 could have clearly made the turn (T2) on the track, if not for the resultant collision. Car 6 did not allow Car 44 "racing room" and hence the driver of Car 6 was responsible for the collision
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10332678/nico-rosberg-keeps-fourth-despite-penalty-for-lewis-hamilton-crash
Are Brexit MPs thinking Leadsom will have no chance v May in members ballot and thus thinking they may vote Gove, despite events of the last week.
Whatever drawbacks he has, Gove is well known, experienced and has the credibility to be a PM. He might well still lose to May with the members but he might stand a better chance than Leadsom.
I think England just wore out Iceland, so that it was easy for France...
http://www.mishcon.com/news/firm_news/article_50_process_on_brexit_faces_legal_challenge_to_ensure_parliamentary_involvement_07_2016
Thanks for the link for Waltzing Matilda ...I love that song...it has such a depth of melancholy, humanity and soul....
I think Tom Waits version is one of the most beautiful versions, suited to him, and would be a contender for my desert Island
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLu2ybp6nj0
As TSE said, Kindly Uncle Roy, said we would do the French.
And....the comeback is on.....
lawyers4democracy
Gove if Gove vs May, May if May vs anyone else...
I'd also introduce draconian penalties on the directors of any company that were caught evading tax. Disqualification for life, fines levied on their personal wealth (not that of the company), long mandatory prison sentences - that sort of thing.
I see Leadsom's 24 hours of fame are over and the knives are out for her from the pro-May camp which is basically the pro-Cameron anti-anyone connected with LEAVE camp.
Far from Crabb being Continuity Cameron, it now seems the dissident pro-EU Cameroons are lining up behind May in an attempt to slow or even stop the process of withdrawal.
So much for the Referendum lancing the Tory boil and settling the argument - in that regard, all the time and effort has been for naught. Cameron has destroyed his own political career for nothing at all.
We now have at least three factions inside the Conservative Party - the pro-EU dissidents, the EEA/EFTA grouping which wants to keep the Single Market and FoM and those determined to end FoM at all costs. The second faction is probably in the ascendancy but May will have to play a careful game balancing these forces just as every Conservative leader has since Thatcher and it's not ended that well for any of them.
Still, as Bruce Forsyth would have said in 1331:
"Nicaea to besiege you, to besiege you, Nicaea".
That's one from the Patriachate of Constantinople's joke book.
http://www.camden.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=3470720&
Results for Camden Town with Primrose Hill:
Remain: 4,315 (75.8%)
Leave: 1,378 (24.2%)
Have you made it up with your Brexiting Brother?
Sorry, couldn't help but get in a lefty jibe on a post of mutual bonhomie. It is in my DNA.
And we in the NHS have an extra £350 million per week headed our way under PM Gove.
Of course, it would also put a lot of accountants on the dole which, especially the more "skillful" ones. Which is why it probably won't happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VygWpmwBO8M
A revenue tax would also hurt: new businesses, investing business, hiring businesses, and businesses in difficulties.
All of which would harm the economy, which is the real reason it won't happen.
GERS includes £5.5bn for UK debt interest payments. The thing is even the UK Government doesnt pay that on a pro-rata basis because half the debt is owned by the Bank of England which does not charge the Treasury interest (but the Treasury charges Scotland interest on the full amount.
Even if Scotland is incredibly unsuccessful on negociation, the actual Independent Scotland cost of UK debt interest is less than £3bn but GERS shows £5.5bn.
Time to re-form The League of Empire Loyalists?
Never let a crisis go to waste.
Even if May wins the pressure will be enormous and she'll have explained in the next month her strategy - can she really delay declaring until 2018? I'm doubtful. I'd put early 2017 as the most likely and the place therefore to find value.
we need more demand not help for tax dodgers
Also Juppe on Brexit:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cc4028fa-411f-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d.html#axzz4DMqADFKv
It's much lower than all the other large economies but much higher than the tax competitive smaller economies (and the tax havens). It seems like a completely pointless move from a man whose entire political reputation lies in tatters and whose economic nous is being exposed for worthless rhetoric.
https://t.co/95fJ6rV7HP
Among the many reasons why the idea of returning to an income tax for companies attracts me is that it stops the multinationals getting a free ride. They want to do business here then they can contribute to all the infrastructure spending that makes their business possible. The likes of Starbucks and Amazon to name but two using whizzy accounting tricks to offshore their profits really gets my goat.
Of course there will be some that say unless these big companies are given special status they will not invest here. To which my reply would be, "So what?". If, say, Starbucks pulled out of the UK other companies would spring up to fill the empty space in the market. Furthermore, for companies like Amazon the UK is a very big marketplace in which they earn lots of money - they are not going to pull out just because they have to pay their fair share of taxes.
There is over 2mill staked on the Tory contest.
126k on Labour, a bit piss poor.
And, what do you think about the LD's? 10 mill...no. 100k....no. It is........a sum and proud total of £46.
Michael Gove has 'an emotional need to gossip, particularly when drink is taken' - why he can't be trusted with Britain's most sensitive secrets
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/michael-gove-has-an-emotional-need-to-gossip-particularly-when-d/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I would also point out that we already have a revenue based tax: VAT.
Of course if Article 50 is delayed forever...
**obviously the idea this is a productive use of Higher Education is rather tenuous but I trust you get what I mean.
A remainer leading both main parties & Tony Blair in charge of Brexit?
Circle the wagons!
Andrea is the candidate of choice for both UKIP and the BNP.
What could possibly go wrong?
Bit of a daft story imo.
Currently Labor leads the Coalition 67-65 in seats declared with Others (including Greens and Nick Xenophon) on 5.
13 seats remain to be called and Labor is ahead in 5, the Coalition in 7 and Nick Xenophon in 1 so that would produce a 72-72-6 result.
However, worth pointing out postal votes are still to be counted and these generally favour the Coalition who have traditionally had a stronger postal voting operation than Labor and in the five seats where they lead, Labor's lead is less than 1% so it's entirely possible the Coalition will get over the line or on it.
A Labor majority looks improbable but the Independents are resolutely refusing to play ball with three already saying they won't support either the Coalition or Labor and nor can be bought off with the post of Speaker.
Plenty of fuel left in this fire.
I love it when the Tory Party is ruthless.
On Friday I heard a new dawn chorus outside my house. There was a rustling and twittering, as though of starlings assembling on a branch. Then I heard a collective clearing of the throat, and they started yodelling my name – followed by various expletives. “Oi Boris – c---!” they shouted. Or “Boris – w-----!” I looked out to see some otherwise charming-looking young people, the sort who might fast to raise money for a Third World leprosy project.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/
East constituency: 44,020 votes - 72% remain (31,821 votes); 28% leave (12,153 votes)
North & Leith constituency: 57,099 votes - 78% remain (44,618); 22% leave (12,435 votes)
South constituency: 47,649 votes - 78% remain (37,069 votes); 22% leave (10,549 votes)
South West constituency: 50,308 votes - 72% remain (36,269 votes); 28% leave (14,008 votes)
West constituency: 53,405 votes - 71% remain (38,019 votes); 29% leave (15,353 votes)
And here's the Scottish Independence Vote
Area total Yes No Yes% No%
East 58,232 27,500 30,632 47% 53%
North and Leith 72,181 28,813 43,253 40% 60%
South 58,738 20,340 38,298 35% 65%
South West 64,249 24,659 39,509 38% 61%
West 65,625 22,615 42,946 34% 65%
Either this story is bollocks or Javid has been an even bigger disappointment than I thought.
"So 17 million people voted for a revolutionary change in the way we are governed, and the result is going to be Theresa May. These ignored multitudes were not, I think, hoping for yet another Blairite robot, a living symbol of everything that is wrong with our political system. But this is what they are going to get.
I am sure Mrs May is a perfectly nice person and an ideal neighbour. But this is not the point. She is completely unfitted to answer the national demand for change.
She is a conventional Left-wing liberal. She wanted, for heaven’s sake, to stay in the EU, though she lacked the nerve to campaign actively for this. Given the growing campaign to overturn the referendum by guile and fear, can she be trusted not to fudge us back in?"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3671939/PETER-HITCHENS-voted-revolution-got-Blair-robot.html
If the drafting is anything like the quotes to journos - I'm not at all surprised.
E.G. 'Monomaniacal' about the EU. Oh, and also didn't like the drafting.
Which is it civvies, EU or Drafting?!?!