If there is to be an EU army, I suspect the cause of it will be President Trump reducing the US commitment to NATO.
The likely increasing unreliability of the US is one of the stronger factors that pushes me in a Europhile direction. What does the US get of of NATO? Sure, Russia is being a pain but is that a sufficiently large challenge to merit the US revolving its foreign policy around, particularly with a larger growing geopolitical threat in China?
S Korea and Japan could also join NATO; Turkey is already a member
Hands up all those who want agri-conglomerates getting huge subsidies.
Sandy says Vote Leave to end UK farming...
No, Sandy says Vote Leave so that the UK government can decide who and how much of the farming sector receives subsidies, and for what sorts of activity.
Many of us LEAVERS have been pointing out for ages that after we vote REMAIN, the EU will start doing all the horrible stuff it has in store for us, from EU taxes to EU migrant quotas. The stuff they're holding back now.
Nonetheless I'm surprised they are waiting just one day - one single day - after our vote, before announcing the EU Army.
One day. Lol. Imagine how popular Dave "REMAIN" Cameron is going to be, in the months following our referendum, as all this crapola unravels in front of us. He will be driven from office by howling dogs.
CNN is reporting ISIS are now bribing smugglers to take them to Europe alongside other migrants, if that leads to attacks expect a revolution if the EU attempts to impose more migrant quotas and President Le Pen
TGOHF says Vote leave to end all subsidies for farming...
Vote remain to have Brussels spending your tax money for you - Socialist Scott says the Uk istoo wee, too poor and too stupid to decide whether to pay subsidies or not.
When we get the EU army - I wonder where the ordinance will be manufactured.
Goodbye the Royal Ordinance Factory. And the following
UAE Accuracy International Ltd (AI) UK Armalon Ltd UK Babcock International Group plc UK BAE Systems UK Birmingham Small Arms Company UK Blyth Workcats Ltd (Blyth Workcats) UK BMT Limited UK Britten-Norman (widely known simply as "BN"，trading name as B-N Group Limited or BNG) UK Chemring Group PLC UK Cobham plc UK ELEY group Limited UK Cougar Powerboats UK Griffon Hoverwork UK Holland & Holland UK Holyhead Marine Services Ltd (Holyhead Marine) UK Insys UK ISTEC Services Ltd UK James Purdey and Sons Ltd. UK Lochin Marine International Limited (LOCHIN or Lochin Marine International) UK Manroy Engineering Ltd. UK Morgan Advanced Materials Composites and Defence Systems UK MSI Defence Systems Ltd (MSI-DS) UK OVIK Special Vehicles UK Penman Group UK Rangemaster Precision Arms UK Royal Ordnance UK Sterling Armaments Company UK Supacat UK Webley & Scott UK W. W. Greener UK
Some of us might think that spending £2.5bn a year, paying subsidies to 55,000 people, is a less than optimal use of taxpayers' money.
Sean says Vote Leave to put all UK farmers on the dole
Silly
Yeah but what sort of farming industry would you envisage after Brexit? None of us know what a future UK government might do and there are plenty of people benefiting from the status quo. Can't blame them not wanting to risk it.
I think Leave are justified in using the gross figure
It's officially misleading
I paid £20 for a pint last week
(apart from the change)
What's officially misleading is telling people they'll be £4,300 a year worse off if we leave without explaining that it's the difference between two estimates for GDP in 2030! But the national statistics authority only cares about what gets said about the here and now. They, and people like Full Fact, don't care how much rubbish is spouted about the future.
@David_Cameron: Leave Campaign say "we just don't know" what the UK's future outside Europe looks like. That's why leaving is a leap in the dark #StrongerIN
Some of us might think that spending £2.5bn a year, paying subsidies to 55,000 people, is a less than optimal use of taxpayers' money.
Sean says Vote Leave to put all UK farmers on the dole
Silly
Yeah but what sort of farming industry would you envisage after Brexit? None of us know what a future UK government might do and there are plenty of people benefiting from the status quo. Can't blame them not wanting to risk it.
If I was given a subsidy of £50,000 per annum to practise law, thanks to the EU, then I'd probably think long and hard before deciding whether or not to risk it.
It doesn't follow that that would be a good use of public money, or that a British government shouldn't be entitled to decide on the issue.
If there is to be an EU army, I suspect the cause of it will be President Trump reducing the US commitment to NATO.
The likely increasing unreliability of the US is one of the stronger factors that pushes me in a Europhile direction. What does the US get of of NATO? Sure, Russia is being a pain but is that a sufficiently large challenge to merit the US revolving its foreign policy around, particularly with a larger growing geopolitical threat in China?
S Korea and Japan could also join NATO; Turkey is already a member
Why would South Korea and Japan sign up to protecting Europe with no reciprocity?
@David_Cameron: Leave Campaign say "we just don't know" what the UK's future outside Europe looks like. That's why leaving is a leap in the dark #StrongerIN
If Mr Cameron revealed what his government's contingency plans are, then we would know. They are, after all, the ones who will be negotiating the terms of Brexit.
Likewise, N Yorks council's pro-fracking decision.
Northallerton is a hell of a long way from Kirby Misperton.
True, but KM is not the only potential site. 4.3% for the Greens is still a no-kind-of-solidarity score when they had that kind off issue to run off (as well as all the usual anti-austerity guff).
How do Aldi/Lidl make a profit? I know they don’t sell brand-leaders but the differences are stark.
Different supply chain management and no fear in changing prices. The big UK supermarkets have locked themselves into hugely complex logistics systems that have huge benefits but reduces their agility greatly. The brand of, say, the chopped tomatoes in Lidl can change on a week by week basis as they constantly switch their supplier as hey chase the most cost effective source. Especially as things go in and out if season the prices in Lidl/Also change hugely one month I was buying great quality chopped tomatoes for 6p a can, once tomato season was over the prices went up and up to 50p a can and the brand changed. In the supermarket a can of chopped tomatoes is the same price all year round.
If there is to be an EU army, I suspect the cause of it will be President Trump reducing the US commitment to NATO.
The likely increasing unreliability of the US is one of the stronger factors that pushes me in a Europhile direction. What does the US get of of NATO? Sure, Russia is being a pain but is that a sufficiently large challenge to merit the US revolving its foreign policy around, particularly with a larger growing geopolitical threat in China?
S Korea and Japan could also join NATO; Turkey is already a member
Why would South Korea and Japan sign up to protecting Europe with no reciprocity?
There would be reciprocity I presume protecting them against China even if not explicitly said
I see Scott struggling on his own today , his sidekick Carlotta gets the bank holiday weekend and he is left by CCHQ to get a pummeling, hope he is on double time for it.
@George_Osborne: The leave campaign admit they 'just don't know' what the consequences of leaving would be. That's just not good enough.
Surely the future outside the EU depends upon what the current government chooses to negotiate and what path to take, so not a stab in the dark, more what the government decides. If anything it is Remain that offers the uncertain future in an EU with 350,000 net migration coming here each year, costing the health service millions, and strainng the social fabric of society to breaking point, not to mention the EU Superstate with more powers going to Brussels and an undemocratic elite ruling over us. The uncertainty of having to bail out failing EU states like Greece, and the inability to strike our own trade deals, getting swallowed into an EU wide recession, that is the uncertainty. At least with Leave we are masters of our own destiny
What is the correct figure - I hand the EU £20, the EU says I can have £3 in CAP back, and another £6 which must be given to a Scotsman, and only provided I give the Scotsman another £6 too? Because I think the EU projects are mostly in Scotland and Wales? Or have I got it wrong?
If there is to be an EU army, I suspect the cause of it will be President Trump reducing the US commitment to NATO.
The likely increasing unreliability of the US is one of the stronger factors that pushes me in a Europhile direction. What does the US get of of NATO? Sure, Russia is being a pain but is that a sufficiently large challenge to merit the US revolving its foreign policy around, particularly with a larger growing geopolitical threat in China?
S Korea and Japan could also join NATO; Turkey is already a member
Why would South Korea and Japan sign up to protecting Europe with no reciprocity?
There would be reciprocity I presume protecting them against China even if not explicitly said
If it's not in the treaty then it's not a commitment. NATO requires a common defence against an attack on North America or Europe. That's it - Asia is quite clearly excluded. I think there was a SEATO early on in the Cold War to cover that gap.
If there is to be an EU army, I suspect the cause of it will be President Trump reducing the US commitment to NATO.
The likely increasing unreliability of the US is one of the stronger factors that pushes me in a Europhile direction. What does the US get of of NATO? Sure, Russia is being a pain but is that a sufficiently large challenge to merit the US revolving its foreign policy around, particularly with a larger growing geopolitical threat in China?
S Korea and Japan could also join NATO; Turkey is already a member
Why would South Korea and Japan sign up to protecting Europe with no reciprocity?
There would be reciprocity I presume protecting them against China even if not explicitly said
If it's not in the treaty then it's not a commitment. NATO requires a common defence against an attack on North America or Europe. That's it - Asia is quite clearly excluded. I think there was a SEATO early on in the Cold War to cover that gap.
It could easily be rewritten to include a common defence against an attack on Asian members, with North Korea more belligerent than ever and China a rising superpower S Korea and Japan would certainly sign up if offered
Got a guy repairing my roof this morning. He's got a white van and is quite a regular at the Bournville Social Club. Tells me that he voted Con in the 2015 election (he was a last minute waverer from UKIP) and he tells me also that he's voting Leave and that ALL his mates are voting LEAVE.
Comments
Ros Altman: Brexit would hit pensioners hard
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/brexit-would-hit-pensioners-hard-mdx509wqg
From Osborne's twitter feed
What pensioners need above all is certainty - leaving the EU offers nothing but uncertainty
Higher inflation & a weaker economy means the state pension will be worth less & pensioners with homes and shares will lose money
Future pensioners will have less money when they retire if we leave EU.It is not a price worth paying. We're stronger, safer & better off In
12m people who get basic state pension would see higher inflation erode real value of increases they can expect: at least £137 a year less
For someone aged over 65 with typical housing and non-pension assets loss in wealth estimated at between £18,000 and £32,000
Hate farmers? Vote Leave.
http://news.sky.com/story/1702853/brexit-warnings-wrong-on-trade-think-tank
"We spend £350m a week on the EU and subsidies for British farmers, which we will continue to pay if we Vote Leave"
Goodbye the Royal Ordinance Factory. And the following
UAE
Accuracy International Ltd (AI) UK
Armalon Ltd UK
Babcock International Group plc UK
BAE Systems UK
Birmingham Small Arms Company UK
Blyth Workcats Ltd (Blyth Workcats) UK
BMT Limited UK
Britten-Norman (widely known simply as "BN"，trading name as B-N Group Limited or BNG) UK
Chemring Group PLC UK
Cobham plc UK
ELEY group Limited UK
Cougar Powerboats UK
Griffon Hoverwork UK
Holland & Holland UK
Holyhead Marine Services Ltd (Holyhead Marine) UK
Insys UK
ISTEC Services Ltd UK
James Purdey and Sons Ltd. UK
Lochin Marine International Limited (LOCHIN or Lochin Marine International) UK
Manroy Engineering Ltd. UK
Morgan Advanced Materials Composites and Defence Systems UK
MSI Defence Systems Ltd (MSI-DS) UK
OVIK Special Vehicles UK
Penman Group UK
Rangemaster Precision Arms UK
Royal Ordnance UK
Sterling Armaments Company UK
Supacat UK
Webley & Scott UK
W. W. Greener UK
Startling from GO.
@David_Cameron: Leave Campaign say "we just don't know" what the UK's future outside Europe looks like. That's why leaving is a leap in the dark #StrongerIN
Startling reveal.
That is the point.
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and Doom.
It's classic. And pathetic.
It doesn't follow that that would be a good use of public money, or that a British government shouldn't be entitled to decide on the issue.
Never go full Corbyn....
@George_Osborne: The leave campaign admit they 'just don't know' what the consequences of leaving would be. That's just not good enough.
Osborne admits he just doesn't know what to do, without Merkel telling him. That's just not good enough.
new thread
Regardless of the result , GO has spent all his credibility tokens - and Cameron's too.