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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Great Online versus Phone debate – this week’s PB Polling Matters TV Show

We’re back. After a gap of three weeks while our hosts, Tip TV, moved into new premises the PB/Polling Matters TV show is on the air and inevitability it was dominated by the referendum.

Read the full story here

CarlottaVance

First!

RodCrosby

Before anyone bets a cent...
http://observer.com/2016/05/game-over-emailgate-just-crippled-the-clinton-express/

dugarbandier

This will be amusing for the Dutch speakers among you.

Apparently the TV feed in Turkey was interrupted

https://twitter.com/ErdenB/status/735116205468581888

JackW

Latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection Countdown

200 minutes

CarlottaVance

YOUNG Scots from disadvantaged backgrounds face "shocking" barriers to higher education, a new report has found.

Research by the Sutton Trust found the most disadvantaged Scots were four times less likely to go to university than those from the wealthiest backgrounds - the worst rates in the UK.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14519829.Poorest_pupils_face__quot_shocking_quot__barriers_to_university/

Meanwhile:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14519833.MSP_who_sends_children_to_private_school_declares___39_education_not_a_commodity_to_be_bought_or_sold__39_/

Charles

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

ThomasNashe

RodCrosby said:

Before anyone bets a cent...
http://observer.com/2016/05/game-over-emailgate-just-crippled-the-clinton-express/

LOL: 'Disclosure: Donald Trump is the father-in-law of Jared Kushner, the publisher of Observer Media'.

JackW

FPT

TSE said :

"Sir John Major didn't go to University, and he's a top egg"

I think you meant ....

Sir John Major didn't go to University, and he was atop Eggwina ....

JackW

Wisconsin - Public Opinion Strategies

Clinton 43 .. Trump 31

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/WIPollSlides.pdf

RobD

Up early for your (and your ARSE's) morning ablutions, @JackW?

MarqueeMark

ThomasNashe said:

RodCrosby said:

Before anyone bets a cent...
http://observer.com/2016/05/game-over-emailgate-just-crippled-the-clinton-express/

LOL: 'Disclosure: Donald Trump is the father-in-law of Jared Kushner, the publisher of Observer Media'.

Yeah...but...he is also going to have inside track when he says that his father-in-law is going to use them to go after Hillary: you can just see the debates, where he's going to play the card of

"What were you hiding from the American people, Hillary?"

Paul_Bedfordshire

Roses are Green
Violets are White
Clophills on Fire
And been burning all night

- horrible haze and smell of smoke here. Is this a taste of what is to befall us if we vote for Brexit?

dugarbandier

Paul_Bedfordshire said:

Roses are Green
Violets are White
Clophills on Fire
And been burning all night

- horrible haze and smell of smoke here. Is this a taste of what is to befall us if we vote for Brexit?

to say nothing of the geiten neuking

JackW

RobD said:

Up early for your (and your ARSE's) morning ablutions, @JackW?

My ARSE is a 24 hour operation beavering away constantly at the very vitals of political world ....

Pulls chain ....

RobD

JackW said:

RobD said:

Up early for your (and your ARSE's) morning ablutions, @JackW?

My ARSE is a 24 hour operation beavering away constantly at the very vitals of political world ....

Pulls chain ....

In operations 24 hours a day? That must be inconvenient....

JackW

RobD said:

JackW said:

RobD said:

Up early for your (and your ARSE's) morning ablutions, @JackW?

My ARSE is a 24 hour operation beavering away constantly at the very vitals of political world ....

Pulls chain ....

In operations 24 hours a day? That must be inconvenient....

Public convenience is a top prioirity for my ARSE.

Innocent_Abroad

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

ydoethur

ThomasNashe said:

RodCrosby said:

Before anyone bets a cent...
http://observer.com/2016/05/game-over-emailgate-just-crippled-the-clinton-express/

LOL: 'Disclosure: Donald Trump is the father-in-law of Jared Kushner, the publisher of Observer Media'.

That is funny. However, even the Washington Post has been hammering her over this report. Their reporters have flat out accused her of lying, in so many words. The Guardian are still backing her, but then they are having some difficulty tearing themselves away from Nicolas Maduro as well.

I've been sceptical about how far this would lead, but it's starting to look bad for her. One point that I have just seen raised but doesn't seem to have been addressed is that on leaving office she should have signed a form declaring that any personal records relating to her time in office had been turned over. This is so they could be (a) preserved and (b) so that she would not still have access to them once her security clearance had been revoked.

Clearly, if she signed such a form she lied (this would be equivalent to perjury given the status of the form) and if she didn't it raises very serious questions about both her and the State Department who appear not to have been following the spirit of the then version of the Federal Records Act. (It should be noted that email was not explicitly included until 2014.)

There's an awful mess here entirely of Clinton's making. If it stops her from becoming President, she will only have herself to blame.

Moses_

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

Plato_Says

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

david_herdson

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

No - AIUI, politicians can spout on the campaign at any time: it's civil servants and government resources that are purdahed.

DavidL

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

I think people have forgotten what hypocrisy actually means. If she does not hide the fact that she sends her kids to private school she is not a hypocrite. According to the article she made the decision because the private school provided "wrap around care" not available in the State sector. She is entitled to campaign for the idea that such care should be available in the State sector whilst facing the reality that it doesn't for her own children.

Her argument that education is not a commodity to be bought and sold is just plainly wrong but that is a different matter.

Moses_

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Moses_

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

Alanbrooke

Moses_ said:

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

It was yesterday wasn't it, hence the spat about Osborne's last minute scaremongering on pensions ?

Plato_Says

Cameron dancing about the Q&As.

Plato_Says

Alanbrooke said:

Moses_ said:

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

It was yesterday wasn't it, hence the spat about Osborne's last minute scaremongering on pensions ?

Maybe such overseas stuff doesn't count?

Edit - it won't get this off the headlines http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-voters-3j3kg3zwj

Alanbrooke

Plato_Says said:

Alanbrooke said:

Moses_ said:

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

It was yesterday wasn't it, hence the spat about Osborne's last minute scaremongering on pensions ?

Maybe such overseas stuff doesn't count?

whatever the timing issue, the fact remains it looks pretty desperate.

Casino_Royale

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

Predicted.

Casino_Royale

Alanbrooke said:

Moses_ said:

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

It was yesterday wasn't it, hence the spat about Osborne's last minute scaremongering on pensions ?

Predicted. But fairly low down the headlines so might not be noticed much.

Moses_

Plato_Says said:

Alanbrooke said:

Moses_ said:

Moses_ said:

Plato_Says said:

Moses_ said:

Cameron speech in Japan on sky pushing the in vote. Is this covered by Purdah? Or perhaps not?

I think today is the last day.

Ok
Thought it was yesterday.

Edit Thanks DE

It was yesterday wasn't it, hence the spat about Osborne's last minute scaremongering on pensions ?

Maybe such overseas stuff doesn't count?

Edit - it won't get this off the headlines http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/eu-army-plans-kept-secret-from-voters-3j3kg3zwj

If the G7 was in Vancouver he would be covered both ways

Charles

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

Moses_

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

Roger

One of the most interesting of the podcasts I've seen. The last five mintes on the next Tory leader are a bit out of date but otherwise excellent.

I can't believe people are talking seriously about Andrea Leadsom for leader. If the Referendum goes as predicted I'd expect Cameron to cull nearly all the Brexiteers. Certainly those who have called him a liar which is just about all of them except for Gove.

But even if Cameron turns out to be more magnanamous than we believe him to be and he kept her on in some capacity Osborne would eat her alive.

SandyRentool

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

CarlottaVance

DavidL said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

I think people have forgotten what hypocrisy actually means. If she does not hide the fact that she sends her kids to private school she is not a hypocrite. According to the article she made the decision because the private school provided "wrap around care" not available in the State sector. She is entitled to campaign for the idea that such care should be available in the State sector whilst facing the reality that it doesn't for her own children.

Her argument that education is not a commodity to be bought and sold is just plainly wrong but that is a different matter.

Her timing, on the day before:

a Sutton Trust report was published showing Scottish young people from the fifth most advantaged areas are four times more likely to go to university than those born into the poorest 20 per cent of areas. The equivalent figure in England is 2.4 times.

The MSP later added: "Educational opportunity and social mobility must be protected. Universal benefits are a principle worth fighting for."

Is at best unfortunate, especially given the 'universal' benefit is disadvantaging the poorest.

Why didn't she tell the Holyrood chamber about the virtues of independent schools, seeing as she clearly values them so much.?

Innocent_Abroad

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

So why do you put up comments that demonstrate the opposite?

Roger

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

DavidL

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

Moses_

Now it's a European tax system.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/25/eu-plots-europe-wide-tax-id-numbers/

No expansion here oh no...no sireee....

SouthamObserver

DavidL said:

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

Does this rule Gove out of being PM? He had an email problem too, didn't he?

SandyRentool

If anyone is interested, Chuka has written a piece on Labour list. Usual Remain nonsense, but some may like it.

CarlottaVance

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

It's Saatchi & Saatchi......the Charlotte St gang will have marked your card!

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than having your advertising talked about....and thats not having it talked about.....

Funny how LEAVErs seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the obnoxious thug is a LEAVEr......

DavidL

CarlottaVance said:

DavidL said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

.

I think people have forgotten what hypocrisy actually means. If she does not hide the fact that she sends her kids to private school she is not a hypocrite. According to the article she made the decision because the private school provided "wrap around care" not available in the State sector. She is entitled to campaign for the idea that such care should be available in the State sector whilst facing the reality that it doesn't for her own children.

Her argument that education is not a commodity to be bought and sold is just plainly wrong but that is a different matter.

Her timing, on the day before:

a Sutton Trust report was published showing Scottish young people from the fifth most advantaged areas are four times more likely to go to university than those born into the poorest 20 per cent of areas. The equivalent figure in England is 2.4 times.

The MSP later added: "Educational opportunity and social mobility must be protected. Universal benefits are a principle worth fighting for."

Is at best unfortunate, especially given the 'universal' benefit is disadvantaging the poorest.

Why didn't she tell the Holyrood chamber about the virtues of independent schools, seeing as she clearly values them so much.?

The SNPs policies have been severely damaging to the less affluent in Scotland and have placed the poor in Scotland at a significant disadvantage to the same segment in England.

Part of this has been driven by the concept of "free" which underlies her argument. "Free" education, prescriptions and bridges has been a consistent theme of the SNP government as it was of the Indyref. It is of course nonsense. These things are not free, they are paid for by the taxpayers of the country. Once that elementary fact is acknowledged the question is properly focussed on whether the taxpayer is getting value for money.

And the answer in many cases is no. Funding "free" University places restricts access by Scottish kids to Universities and is damaging those Universities. Dundee University, which has an outstanding medical school, is in the process of making significant redundancies there because the number of places that the Scottish Government can afford to pay and the rate which they can afford to pay is not sufficient. It is also not achieving its social objective of increasing participation from all segments of society. The policy desperately needs revisited but the mantra of free makes this all but impossible.

SquareRoot

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Charles

This quote amused me. I'm just curious about the order they've chosen.

I can just imagine someone getting increasingly outraged as they run through the litany of disasters that awaits the UK before pausing and then climaxing with the "end of cheap holidays!"

The Prime Minister and Chancellor have, in recent months, claimed Brexit could lead to war, genocide, recession, migrant camps in Kent, 800,000 job losses, a collapse in house prices, stratospheric rises in clothing and food prices and the end of cheap holidays.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3611775/Now-Osborne-says-Brexit-cost-pensioners-32-000.html#ixzz49ptPQMBG

Roger

CarlottaVance said:

YOUNG Scots from disadvantaged backgrounds face "shocking" barriers to higher education, a new report has found.

Research by the Sutton Trust found the most disadvantaged Scots were four times less likely to go to university than those from the wealthiest backgrounds - the worst rates in the UK.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14519829.Poorest_pupils_face__quot_shocking_quot__barriers_to_university/

Meanwhile:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14519833.MSP_who_sends_children_to_private_school_declares___39_education_not_a_commodity_to_be_bought_or_sold__39_/

Apparently most of the SNP MP's are having a whale of a time in London. Most don't even bother to go back to Scotland. I was invited to the HoC for dinner on Tuesday and met quite a few.

DavidL

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

Does this rule Gove out of being PM? He had an email problem too, didn't he?

Nothing like the same scale I think.

Monksfield

The expectations of outers around Purdah are very amusing - you've been salivating about it for weeks. But it will make next to no difference to either campaign or the way the public sees it. Hysterical!

Charles

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

So why do you put up comments that demonstrate the opposite?

Don't be coy. Why don't you post what you think it means and then we can have a discussion. I'm comfortable with my comments, and their basis in a correct interpretation of the English language

Charles

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

It's been linked to Saatichi, but don't know if that is fair or not!

Roger

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Yes. I enjoyed it and Meryl Streep was very good. I can't believe the real FFJ had a voice quite that bad though if you stayed till the credits they played the only recording she ever made which wasn't too dissimilar.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

Moses_ said:

Now it's a European tax system.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/25/eu-plots-europe-wide-tax-id-numbers/

No expansion here oh no...no sireee....

But Dave's deal will protect us.

Alistair

Hasn't the percentage of poor an disadvantage students in higher education improved under the SNP government compared to the previous Labour/Lib Dem government?

Charles

DavidL said:

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

You do realise that Whitewater absolutely stank? They could never find a smoking gun, but it was clear that there was something very wrong going on. A friend of mine grew up opposite the Clinton's (his Dad was a serious Arkie Democrat) and knew them well & has shared some of the goings-on/

SquareRoot

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Yes. I enjoyed it and Meryl Streep was very good. I can't believe the real FFJ had a voice quite that bad though if you stayed till the credits they played the only recording she ever made which wasn't too dissimilar.

We did, I was full of foreboding before I saw the film, but it grew on me. Its been on for some time and there were only about a dozen people at the screening.. What amazed me about the credits was that they went on for ever and ever, no wonder it costs so much with that no of people on the production...

SquareRoot

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

Moses_ said:

Now it's a European tax system.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/25/eu-plots-europe-wide-tax-id-numbers/

No expansion here oh no...no sireee....

But Dave's deal will protect us.

Its just like the straight bananas and the European army, its all talk and no chance of it happening. its just scaremongering.

Scott_P

Alistair said:

Hasn't the percentage of poor an disadvantage students in higher education improved under the SNP government compared to the previous Labour/Lib Dem government?

In an embarrassing development for the SNP, the report finds that the Scottish government’s flagship free tuition policy has not improved the situation. The study, Access in Scotland, led by Sheila Riddell, says: “The abolition of the Scottish graduate endowment in 2007 did not appear to have a marked impact on the relative participation rates of different social groups.”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/shocking-class-divide-in-access-to-universities-is-worst-in-the-uk-bqwgqsgnf

rottenborough

Hillary's veep might do a Selina Meyer if FBI indict:

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/05/why-americas-next-president-may-be-neither-clinton-nor-trump-but-instead.html

Innocent_Abroad

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

So why do you put up comments that demonstrate the opposite?

Don't be coy. Why don't you post what you think it means and then we can have a discussion. I'm comfortable with my comments, and their basis in a correct interpretation of the English language

A commodity is any object that can be bought, sold or marketed. You are, on reflection, half right: education might be better described as a service, since it is not an object in the sense that a tea-bag (or a Rolls-Royce, for that matter) is - but it is certainly marketable. "Speciality products" are merely a sub-set of commodities.

NickPalmer

CarlottaVance said:

DavidL said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

I think people have forgotten what hypocrisy actually means. If she does not hide the fact that she sends her kids to private school she is not a hypocrite. According to the article she made the decision because the private school provided "wrap around care" not available in the State sector. She is entitled to campaign for the idea that such care should be available in the State sector whilst facing the reality that it doesn't for her own children.

Her argument that education is not a commodity to be bought and sold is just plainly wrong but that is a different matter.

Her timing, on the day before:

a Sutton Trust report was published showing Scottish young people from the fifth most advantaged areas are four times more likely to go to university than those born into the poorest 20 per cent of areas. The equivalent figure in England is 2.4 times.

The MSP later added: "Educational opportunity and social mobility must be protected. Universal benefits are a principle worth fighting for."

Is at best unfortunate, especially given the 'universal' benefit is disadvantaging the poorest.

Why didn't she tell the Holyrood chamber about the virtues of independent schools, seeing as she clearly values them so much.?

I'm nowhere near the SNP, but I agree with DavidL on this. There's nothing inconsistent about opposing the current situation as she sees it, while doing her best for her kids in that situation. If London Transport was terrible so I had kids who I sent everywhere by taxi, I wouldn't feel I couldn't criticise the situation, nor would I feel I was somehow selling the pass by looking after my kids. (To avoid misunderstanding: I don't have any kids and LT is fine.)

ydoethur

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

Does this rule Gove out of being PM? He had an email problem too, didn't he?

If that had been the only problem, he would have demonstrated that he was not Prime Ministerial.

However, by his standards it's actually quite a minor problem. The man who arranged matters so that the specifications for the new GCSE syllabuses were only approved nearly a year after 40% of schools, including mine, had had to begin teaching them was probably not really suitable as PM anyway. Or the man who asked advice from universities on new history and geography courses, before doing the exact opposite of all they said. Or the man who appointed Niall Ferguson to revamp the history curriculum, before publishing without proof-reading it so it was full of spelling mistakes...

Similarly there is a certain delicious irony if HRC survives Whitewater, healthcare and Benghazi only to be brought down because of her lazy reluctance to use a proper email system!

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

F1: reminder it's weird Monaco, so no practice today. Third practice and qualifying are on Saturday, as usual.

Roger

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Yes. I enjoyed it and Meryl Streep was very good. I can't believe the real FFJ had a voice quite that bad though if you stayed till the credits they played the only recording she ever made which wasn't too dissimilar.

We did, I was full of foreboding before I saw the film, but it grew on me. Its been on for some time and there were only about a dozen people at the screening.. What amazed me about the credits was that they went on for ever and ever, no wonder it costs so much with that no of people on the production...

Yes it's been on for a lng time. At least you can walk out during the credits. If you go to one of the cinemas around Soho it's considered rude because at least somene in the audience will be low down in the credits and if it's something like Star Wars it can take forever

Pulpstar

I'm running out of time to have dinner with Hillary apparently.

SouthamObserver

Very good article on England's foment. Stark reading for all parts of the political spectrum:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/26/immigration-england-ons-migration-london-eu-referendum

Charles

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

So why do you put up comments that demonstrate the opposite?

Don't be coy. Why don't you post what you think it means and then we can have a discussion. I'm comfortable with my comments, and their basis in a correct interpretation of the English language

A commodity is any object that can be bought, sold or marketed. You are, on reflection, half right: education might be better described as a service, since it is not an object in the sense that a tea-bag (or a Rolls-Royce, for that matter) is - but it is certainly marketable. "Speciality products" are merely a sub-set of commodities.

Wrong, although it is often used like that:

A commodity is a basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other commodities of the same type. Commodities are most often used as inputs in the production of other goods or services. The quality of a given commodity may differ slightly, but it is essentially uniform across producers.

It refers to low value, basic goods - usually inputs - such as oil, coal, commodity chemicals, etc.

Anything which is a differentiated product is not, by definition, interchangeable. For example, an education at Eton is very different to one at Muggleton Comprehensive and you would not expect them to be priced the same.

HYUFD

DavidL said:

It is an undeniable fact that throughout her public life a lot of people have been out to get Hillary. Thinking that people might seek to do so again is not paranoia but the grim reality of public life in the States (and increasingly here). In her case this has caused her to take what she no doubt regarded as defensive measures so that she could speak freely and make sure everyone was on the same page without public scrutiny at State.

This was an understandable response to someone dragged through Whitewater, Vince Foster and many other "scandals" which went round and around for years without any apparent evidence of wrongdoing but it is an approach that completely undermines democratic supervision of government in a modern state. It is like imagining Nixon managing to conceal his Oval Office tapes. It is not just a question of a public record (in the way Blair is going to be criticised for his sofa government) it is a question of accountability. And as Secretary of State Clinton was accountable, just as she would be if elected President.

Someone who can make such decisions has a major job on her hands persuading the American people that she has learned her lesson. So far that has not been the response. The article is correct that Trump is going to eviscerate her for this. My Trump bet is looking better all the time.

Yet Hillary has re taken the lead over Trump in the latest Rasmussen, published yesterday. If she does win I would agree however she would be the Democratic Nixon

TOPPING

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Yes. I enjoyed it and Meryl Streep was very good. I can't believe the real FFJ had a voice quite that bad though if you stayed till the credits they played the only recording she ever made which wasn't too dissimilar.

We did, I was full of foreboding before I saw the film, but it grew on me. Its been on for some time and there were only about a dozen people at the screening.. What amazed me about the credits was that they went on for ever and ever, no wonder it costs so much with that no of people on the production...

Yes it's been on for a lng time. At least you can walk out during the credits. If you go to one of the cinemas around Soho it's considered rude because at least somene in the audience will be low down in the credits and if it's something like Star Wars it can take forever

I always stay til the end of the credits. Call it closure with the film.

Plus of course now several films have something that happens after the credits.

chestnut

A brief reminder of the public's priorities from Wednesday's TV ratings:

1.3m Boris V Dave
1.9m Lose Weight For Love
2.1m Chelsea Flower Show
7.6m Britain's Got Talent

The morning news on ITV was dominated by the French oil blockade disrupting people's holidays.

ydoethur

Charles said:

Anything which is a differentiated product is not, by definition, interchangeable. For example, an education at Eton is very different to one at Muggleton Comprehensive and you would not expect them to be priced the same.

Mr Charles, objection. That should be, 'very different from one at Muggleton Comprehensive' (it was actually called Stonewall High, incidentally).

Pulpstar

@Rodcrosby California is showing as TCTC

Roger

CarlottaVance said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

It's Saatchi & Saatchi......the Charlotte St gang will have marked your card!

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than having your advertising talked about....and thats not having it talked about.....

Funny how LEAVErs seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the obnoxious thug is a LEAVEr......

Where did you hear it was made by Saatchi? it's just awful. If it is them it's not the first crap ad they've done but it just doesn't look like a poster more an illustration for a story.

HYUFD

JackW said:

Wisconsin - Public Opinion Strategies

Clinton 43 .. Trump 31

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/WIPollSlides.pdf

Obama won Wisconsin by 7 in 2012 so again suggests Trump is failing to do significantly better than Romney in the swing states

Innocent_Abroad

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

Innocent_Abroad said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

AN SNP MSP who sends her children to private school has been accused of hypocrisy after using her maiden speech at Holyrood to proclaim that "education is not a commodity to be bought or sold.

But that's not hypocrisy, just a simple statement of fact.

A good education is not a commodity at all - it's not readily available from multiple sources and with a clear market price. It's a specialty product, highly valued and priced accordingly.

You don't know what "commodity" means, do you?

I do know what commodity means.

So why do you put up comments that demonstrate the opposite?

Don't be coy. Why don't you post what you think it means and then we can have a discussion. I'm comfortable with my comments, and their basis in a correct interpretation of the English language

A commodity is any object that can be bought, sold or marketed. You are, on reflection, half right: education might be better described as a service, since it is not an object in the sense that a tea-bag (or a Rolls-Royce, for that matter) is - but it is certainly marketable. "Speciality products" are merely a sub-set of commodities.

Wrong, although it is often used like that:

A commodity is a basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other commodities of the same type. Commodities are most often used as inputs in the production of other goods or services. The quality of a given commodity may differ slightly, but it is essentially uniform across producers.

It refers to low value, basic goods - usually inputs - such as oil, coal, commodity chemicals, etc.

Anything which is a differentiated product is not, by definition, interchangeable. For example, an education at Eton is very different to one at Muggleton Comprehensive and you would not expect them to be priced the same.

Well, things have changed since I studied economics (a long time ago ) Here's another definition (or three):

commodity


/kəˈmɒdɪti/


noun

noun: commodity; plural noun: commodities




a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee.
"commodities such as copper and coffee"


synonyms: item, material, type of produce, product, article, object, thing, artefact, piece of merchandise; More
import, export


"improving productivity will lower the cost of a commodity"




•a useful or valuable thing.
"water is a precious commodity"

MikeK

Good morning all.
Don't say you haven't been warned, and will it be a voluntary army or a conscript army; aye there's the rub.
https://twitter.com/RedHotSquirrel/status/736086947148357632

Charles

Roger said:

CarlottaVance said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

It's Saatchi & Saatchi......the Charlotte St gang will have marked your card!

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than having your advertising talked about....and thats not having it talked about.....

Funny how LEAVErs seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the obnoxious thug is a LEAVEr......

Where did you hear it was made by Saatchi? it's just awful. If it is them it's not the first crap ad they've done but it just doesn't look like a poster more an illustration for a story.

A number of the news reports I've seen refer to Saatchi as OBV's agency. They don't specificially say that they were responsible for this poster

Charles

Innocent_Abroad said:

Well, things have changed since I studied economics (a long time ago ) Here's another definition (or three):

commodity


/kəˈmɒdɪti/


noun

noun: commodity; plural noun: commodities




a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee.
"commodities such as copper and coffee"


synonyms: item, material, type of produce, product, article, object, thing, artefact, piece of merchandise; More
import, export


"improving productivity will lower the cost of a commodity"




•a useful or valuable thing.
"water is a precious commodity"

The first two are basically the same concept. The third is common, but not technically correct, usage.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/commodity.asp?layout=infini&v=5A&adtest=5A&ato=3000

The key question is whether you are a price taker (commodity) or a price setter (specialty)

Roger

TOPPING said:

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SquareRoot said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

Roger

Have you seen the film Florence Foster Jenkins? We went last night, and a very interesting subject for a film. I cannot get her singing voice out of my head !

Yes. I enjoyed it and Meryl Streep was very good. I can't believe the real FFJ had a voice quite that bad though if you stayed till the credits they played the only recording she ever made which wasn't too dissimilar.

We did, I was full of foreboding before I saw the film, but it grew on me. Its been on for some time and there were only about a dozen people at the screening.. What amazed me about the credits was that they went on for ever and ever, no wonder it costs so much with that no of people on the production...

Yes it's been on for a lng time. At least you can walk out during the credits. If you go to one of the cinemas around Soho it's considered rude because at least somene in the audience will be low down in the credits and if it's something like Star Wars it can take forever

I always stay til the end of the credits. Call it closure with the film.

Plus of course now several films have something that happens after the credits.

Me too but if you've just watched a pile of crap long credits just make the pain worse

JackW

HYUFD said:

Yet Hillary has re taken the lead over Trump in the latest Rasmussen, published yesterday. If she does win I would agree however she would be the Democratic Nixon

Whilst only a single poll the Clinton +12 in Wisconsin by Republican pollster POS, I linked to down thread, raised an eyebrow.

Possibly Trump is being damaged by his ongoing spat with local Senator Paul Ryan.

HYUFD

JackW said:

HYUFD said:

Yet Hillary has re taken the lead over Trump in the latest Rasmussen, published yesterday. If she does win I would agree however she would be the Democratic Nixon

Whilst only a single poll the Clinton +12 in Wisconsin by Republican pollster POS, I linked to down thread, raised an eyebrow.

Possibly Trump is being damaged by his ongoing spat with local Senator Paul Ryan.

Indeed, mind you it was never likely Trump could really win states Gore and Kerry won in my view

MikeK

JackW said:

HYUFD said:

Yet Hillary has re taken the lead over Trump in the latest Rasmussen, published yesterday. If she does win I would agree however she would be the Democratic Nixon

Whilst only a single poll the Clinton +12 in Wisconsin by Republican pollster POS, I linked to down thread, raised an eyebrow.

Possibly Trump is being damaged by his ongoing spat with local Senator Paul Ryan.

Remember not all Republicans love Trump, and that goes for GOP pollsters as well.

As for Rasmussen, they are often behind the news and slow to keep up these days.

Morris_Dancer

F1: most interesting thing in this piece on Button and Vandoorne is that it reckons Raikkonen's likely to be retained by Ferrari for another year. Mildly surprised:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36393472

Also, didn't know Massa might be tossed overboard next year.

SouthamObserver

On topic, yesterday was a superb day for Leave and relentlessly horrible for Remain. The main TV news on all channels was all about the immigration numbers and they even managed to have interviews with Boris in which he did not come across as a complete clown (though he is a hypocrite, of course - but which mainline politician isn't?).In fact, it may turn out that yesterday was the key day of the entire campaign.

Immigration has now undoubtedly become the hot referendum topic. Remain have no answer. It is very hard to believe that the online polls are not far closer to the truth than the phone ones. How can it be otherwise with immigration being such a key subject for voters? If Leave could find a credible, middle of the road spokesman they would be home and dry. Their problem is being far too closely identified with the Tory right and UKIP. Should they somehow crack that I am pretty confident that this time in four weeks they will be celebrating. And then, of course, the real fun will begin. .

JackW

MikeK said:

Good morning all.
Don't say you haven't been warned, and will it be a voluntary army or a conscript army..

It so "secret" it's the front page lead in the "Times" ....

Being both aged warriors we might escape conscription unless you fancy the role of Corporal Jones .... "The EU .. They don't like it up em ...."

Morris_Dancer

Mr. K, salami-slicing. It'll be voluntarily and sit alongside national armed forces (the UK won't stop having an army, it'll simply be whittled down over time whilst gradually increasing resources are poured into Euroland's army).

I'd be interested to know the views of the Remain voters on that, though.

Big_G_NorthWales

Weird tent set for BBC euro debate.

Roger

Charles said:

Roger said:

CarlottaVance said:

Roger said:

SandyRentool said:

Moses_ said:

Littlejohn in he mail highlighting a rather nasty advert from reman campaign which is now under investigation. As it was mentioned , had leave gone anywhere near this with similar caricatures the remain camp and the left would have been shrieking racism from the rooftops. As it is not a peep.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

The man obviously weights more than the woman. How could the seesaw be in balance?

Advertisers clearly don't even have a rudimentary knowledge of physics.

It looks like some freelance operation. No paid advertiser would come up with anything as crass and obvious.

It's Saatchi & Saatchi......the Charlotte St gang will have marked your card!

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, there's only one thing worse than having your advertising talked about....and thats not having it talked about.....

Funny how LEAVErs seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the obnoxious thug is a LEAVEr......

A number of the news reports I've seen refer to Saatchi as OBV's agency. They don't specificially say that they were responsible for this poster

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/26/21/349B039100000578-0-image-m-34_1464295941588.jpg

Well get your disclaimers in early.....though I've worked for the original Saatchis many times in many countries I can't remember doing much if anything for M&C. What's more as they have been relentlessly working for the Tories since the days of Thatcher I'm far from a fan.

But if they get the 'Leavers' as irritated as they've been getting us Labour supporters for the last 30 years they won't have done a bad job

SouthamObserver

It seems as if a sensible Republican party would be walking its way to the presidency. Trump may have a chance, but it should surely be a lot more than that given just how damaged Hillary is.

MikeK

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. K, salami-slicing. It'll be voluntarily and sit alongside national armed forces (the UK won't stop having an army, it'll simply be whittled down over time whilst gradually increasing resources are poured into Euroland's army).

I'd be interested to know the views of the Remain voters on that, though.

Oh I know all that you say is the likely scenario, but salami slices will become thicker and thicker until the whole sausage is laying on our plate.

Plato_Says

.

Moses_ said:

Now it's a European tax system.

http://order-order.com/2016/05/25/eu-plots-europe-wide-tax-id-numbers/

No expansion here oh no...no sireee....

It's the final piece in the jigsaw to complete the US of Europe. Off the top of my head, the EU has these already:

- a flag
- a national anthem
- embassies around the world
- their own passport
- their own currency
- a president
- an executive law making body
- a civil service
- a parliament
- free travel within its borders
- ability to veto or punish local legislatures
- nascent armed forces

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, which mighty men and wise women have been invited?

MikeK

JackW said:

MikeK said:

Good morning all.
Don't say you haven't been warned, and will it be a voluntary army or a conscript army..

It so "secret" it's the front page lead in the "Times" ....

Being both aged warriors we might escape conscription unless you fancy the role of Corporal Jones .... "The EU .. They don't like it up em ...."

Mind you I have quite fond memories of my army days.

JackW

HYUFD said:

Indeed, mind you it was never likely Trump could really win states Gore and Kerry won in my view

Trump may trim a point or so in some rust belt states but he's got to do substantially better than that.

MikeK said:

Remember not all Republicans love Trump, and that goes for GOP pollsters as well.

As for Rasmussen, they are often behind the news and slow to keep up these days.

There is no evidence that GOP pollsters are leaning to favour Clinton. Look at the pollster ratings at 538.

Morris_Dancer

Miss Plato, they still need fiscal unity, but steps may be taken there with harmonised corporation tax and EU-wide national insurance numbers.

Big_G_NorthWales

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. NorthWales, which mighty men and wise women have been invited?

Sir Vince Cable and Dominic Raab. Boring so far

TOPPING

SouthamObserver said:

On topic, yesterday was a superb day for Leave and relentlessly horrible for Remain. The main TV news on all channels was all about the immigration numbers and they even managed to have interviews with Boris in which he did not come across as a complete clown (though he is a hypocrite, of course - but which mainline politician isn't?).In fact, it may turn out that yesterday was the key day of the entire campaign.

Immigration has now undoubtedly become the hot referendum topic. Remain have no answer. It is very hard to believe that the online polls are not far closer to the truth than the phone ones. How can it be otherwise with immigration being such a key subject for voters? If Leave could find a credible, middle of the road spokesman they would be home and dry. Their problem is being far too closely identified with the Tory right and UKIP. Should they somehow crack that I am pretty confident that this time in four weeks they will be celebrating. And then, of course, the real fun will begin. .

Yes agree with that. And as for UKIP associations, there's no big brother in the polling booth. People who care, can vent their irritation at immigration right there.

Immigration is tangible, non-theoretical, and a worry for many people. Understandably so.

I am very relaxed about immigration. But. These are huge numbers.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. NorthWales, from the little I've seen, Raab seems sensible.

Cable's just an old socialist, the lingering wisps of his reputation hanging on a good one-liner he delivered a decade ago.

JackW

MikeK said:

Mind you I have quite fond memories of my army days.

Stand by your bed ... you orrible little man !!!!!!

PAW

EU Army - http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/an-eu-army-destined-for-failure-of.html