I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Man of no importance, who is member of party of no importance, says something about which he has no control, or even influence.
Vince Cable is a washed up fool. And has been for about two decades.
Your Dad thought highly enough of him to cast aside any concern for the right of the people of Twickenham to select their own representative, free from outside interference
As I recall the people of Twickenham did select their own representative, it's just that at least one of those people decided their vote on a basis some on here do not like but which is perfectly legitimate - people are free to choose how they decide who to vote for, and they might well pick a stupid reason. I personally think someone deciding how to vote on the basis of a poster with a picture and maybe 5 words is also pretty dumb, but there remains the possibility, however slight, that someone was indeed swayed by such a thing, since the whole point is they add to the weight of reasons to vote a particular way, and so might tip the balance.
"Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit... "
Indeed it is. Unfortunately Cameron has a history of saying one thing but not actually following through with actions that match (e.g. his 2013 speech on the EU and where we are today).
Man of no importance, who is member of party of no importance, says something about which he has no control, or even influence.
Vince Cable is a washed up fool. And has been for about two decades.
Your Dad thought highly enough of him to cast aside any concern for the right of the people of Twickenham to select their own representative, free from outside interference
What's the old saying about this sins of the fathers?
A whopping 13 years ago, I wrote a farewell piece in the Guardian explaining that I was leaving my job on the newspaper – the established voice of the British Left – due to what I saw as its ugly, anti-Jew rhetoric and accompanying Islamophilia (the final straw was when they ran an opinion piece by Osama bin Laden).
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
Making it all the more hilarious some in his own party think he and his Chancellor are acting like socialists.
One of the main groups marching today when Corbyn spoke:
"Of course, in opposing the European Union, socialists find themselves in extremely nauseating company – from the anti-immigrant, xenophobic and islamophobic sections of society, to the little Englanders harking back to the imperial glory days when Britannia ruled the waves all on its little own. The little Englanders imagine that it is somehow possible for that glory, if you can call it that (not everybody would agree), to be restored under the leadership of the right political party."
Totally off topic, but random wikipedia fact of the day, apparently Greece has had 185 PMs since the foundation of the first hellenic republic in 1822. That seems like a hell of a lot of PMs - the words 'caretaker government' seem to crop up a lot.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism that Harold Wilson did bugger all to resist post 1972, Heath was not the ogre or traitor that is now apparently the conventional wisdom. But, yes, they were bewildering times as the post war consensus of Keynesian demand management/full employment slowly unraveled.
A whopping 13 years ago, I wrote a farewell piece in the Guardian explaining that I was leaving my job on the newspaper – the established voice of the British Left – due to what I saw as its ugly, anti-Jew rhetoric and accompanying Islamophilia (the final straw was when they ran an opinion piece by Osama bin Laden).
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
Man of no importance, who is member of party of no importance, says something about which he has no control, or even influence.
Vince Cable is a washed up fool. And has been for about two decades.
Your Dad thought highly enough of him to cast aside any concern for the right of the people of Twickenham to select their own representative, free from outside interference
What's the old saying about this sins of the fathers?
Come to think of it, now you mention it, I personally cannot recall what the old saying is. Apparently God used to consider sons responsible for the sins of the father given we were punished with Original Sin, but I think The Jesus took a more forgiving view.
Totally off topic, but random wikipedia fact of the day, apparently Greece has had 185 PMs since the foundation of the first hellenic republic in 1822. That seems like a hell of a lot of PMs - the words 'caretaker government' seem to crop up a lot.
I suspect we may be on to 186 by Christmas.
Pity trying to learn them all - I cannot name more than a dozen PMs I suspect, and I'd be screwed trying to put them in order.
"Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit... "
Indeed it is. Unfortunately Cameron has a history of saying one thing but not actually following through with actions that match (e.g. his 2013 speech on the EU and where we are today).
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
But as a kipper, you would say that, wouldn't you.
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism that Harold Wilson did bugger all to resist post 1972, Heath was not the ogre or traitor that is now apparently the conventional wisdom. But, yes, they were bewildering times as the post war consensus of Keynesian demand management/full employment slowly unraveled.
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems, in parts, more radical than the 1979 one. But Heath was hit by a combination of strikes, the first oil crisis, and the rise of the Orangemen. I do wonder if oil prices had been falling, and if the country had been better prepared for the coal miner's strike (both of which were true a decade later), if we might not have a different view of Mr Heath.
There are 230,000 Jews in this country and two million Muslims. If the Labour party was currently committing self-immolation for purely ideological reasons, it would be tragic enough.
But the fact that they are doing it cynically, as well – to win the biggest group of voters – compounds their catastrophe.
I am torn between feeling sad that the Labour Party I was brought up in is dying by its own hand and feeling glad that this brain-dead zombie which calls itself a political movement will soon be finished.
To which the hard-left response will no doubt be 'Tory scum'.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
But as a kipper, you would say that, wouldn't you.
I am not a member of any political party. Now how about engaging with what I said rather than worrying about me as an individual.
There are 230,000 Jews in this country and two million Muslims. If the Labour party was currently committing self-immolation for purely ideological reasons, it would be tragic enough.
But the fact that they are doing it cynically, as well – to win the biggest group of voters – compounds their catastrophe.
I am torn between feeling sad that the Labour Party I was brought up in is dying by its own hand and feeling glad that this brain-dead zombie which calls itself a political movement will soon be finished.
To which the hard-left response will no doubt be 'Tory scum'.
She is accused of turning Tory in one of the two comments on the piece, but I feel like newspaper comment sections are their own special little world, right and left.
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
It's amazing how many experts there are on the Haavara agreement all of a sudden
There are 230,000 Jews in this country and two million Muslims. If the Labour party was currently committing self-immolation for purely ideological reasons, it would be tragic enough.
But the fact that they are doing it cynically, as well – to win the biggest group of voters – compounds their catastrophe.
I am torn between feeling sad that the Labour Party I was brought up in is dying by its own hand and feeling glad that this brain-dead zombie which calls itself a political movement will soon be finished.
To which the hard-left response will no doubt be 'Tory scum'.
They're so scurillously effective in winning votes that they're going to cease to exist?
"Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit... "
Indeed it is. Unfortunately Cameron has a history of saying one thing but not actually following through with actions that match (e.g. his 2013 speech on the EU and where we are today).
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
In his very minimal defence, not that I want him to be able to clamp down on this story, but that's really down to Ken, isn't it? Short of gagging the man, what could Milne have done? Poor dear.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
I agree with all that, but JohnO is correct in describing it is a centre-right incompetent government.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
I'm a Leaver, and I don't believe Vince Cable speaks for anyone except himself and his cat, and I'm not sure about the cat.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism that Harold Wilson did bugger all to resist post 1972, Heath was not the ogre or traitor that is now apparently the conventional wisdom. But, yes, they were bewildering times as the post war consensus of Keynesian demand management/full employment slowly unraveled.
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems, in parts, more radical than the 1979 one. But Heath was hit by a combination of strikes, the first oil crisis, and the rise of the Orangemen. I do wonder if oil prices had been falling, and if the country had been better prepared for the coal miner's strike (both of which were true a decade later), if we might not have a different view of Mr Heath.
Well yes, the 1970 programme did look good. Which only made what actually happened (including attempts by a 'Conservative' government to control almost every price and wage in the country and the ridiculous, naive pump-priming of 1972-73) even more dreadful.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
But as a kipper, you would say that, wouldn't you.
I am not a member of any political party. Now how about engaging with what I said rather than worrying about me as an individual.
I have witnessed more than enough of your virulent, sneering grubby personal attacks on Cameron not to take you seriously as a commentator on the Conservative party and hope you stay well away from us. I am sure the sentiment is reciprocated.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism that Harold Wilson did bugger all to resist post 1972, Heath was not the ogre or traitor that is now apparently the conventional wisdom. But, yes, they were bewildering times as the post war consensus of Keynesian demand management/full employment slowly unraveled.
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems, in parts, more radical than the 1979 one. But Heath was hit by a combination of strikes, the first oil crisis, and the rise of the Orangemen. I do wonder if oil prices had been falling, and if the country had been better prepared for the coal miner's strike (both of which were true a decade later), if we might not have a different view of Mr Heath.
Well yes, the 1970 programme did look good. Which only made what actually happened (including attempts by a 'Conservative' government to control almost every price and wage in the country and the ridiculous, naive pump-priming of 1972-73) even more dreadful.
I agree. It's a fascinating question: what if the external headwinds, which led to the Barber Boom and other abominations, had not existed?
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
I agree with all that, but JohnO is correct in describing it is a centre-right incompetent governme t.
We are agreed that Cameron's government is incompetent. Now whether they are Centre-right or Centre-left or just plumb Centre we can haggle about from here to breakfast-time but it would be an awful waste of energy. Not least because I doubt we could agree what the "Centre" is.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
Maomentum Blairite = Zionist Hitler = Zionist Therefore Hitler = Blairite
This explains everything.
OMG it's so obvious.
Blair won three terms as PM, a triangle has three sides, the bermuda triangle is a triangle, bermuda has a coast line, Isreal has a coastline, the flag of David has a star, the star has 6 triangles, 6 take 5 is 1, there is one eye in the iluminati sign. Blair= illuminati confirmed.
There are 230,000 Jews in this country and two million Muslims. If the Labour party was currently committing self-immolation for purely ideological reasons, it would be tragic enough.
But the fact that they are doing it cynically, as well – to win the biggest group of voters – compounds their catastrophe.
I am torn between feeling sad that the Labour Party I was brought up in is dying by its own hand and feeling glad that this brain-dead zombie which calls itself a political movement will soon be finished.
To which the hard-left response will no doubt be 'Tory scum'.
Yeah, self described philo-Semite Burchill is deffo a touchstone for clear-eyed analysis of Labour & anti-semitism. I'm sure she'd approve of Stalin making an appearance on banners at today's May Day parades, though I never heard how she came to terms with her hero's own anti-semitism.
Maomentum Blairite = Zionist Hitler = Zionist Therefore Hitler = Blairite
This explains everything.
OMG it's so obvious.
Blair won three terms as PM, a triangle has three sides, the bermuda triangle is a triangle, bermuda has a coast line, Isreal has a coastline, the flag of David has a star, the star has 6 triangles, 6 take 5 is 1, there is one eye in the iluminati sign. Blair= illuminati confirmed.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems.
Well yes, the 1970 programme did look good. Which only made what actually happened (including attempts by a 'Conservative' government to control almost every price and wage in the country and the ridiculous, naive pump-priming of 1972-73) even more dreadful.
I agree. It's a fascinating question: what if the external headwinds, which led to the Barber Boom and other abominations, had not existed?
Heath, Barber, Carr, Maudling et all were all products of their time. They reached adulthood in the 1930s and were determined that the Conservative party would not be associated again with the mass unemployment of that time. So when the jobless total rose above 1 million in late 1971 and seemed destined to increase inexorably beyond that, yes, they 'panicked', as Macmillan had done in 1962, with their own dash for growth.
Ironically, it was Labour post 1976, that ushered in monetarism and the final inglorious end to Butskellism, which Mrs Thatcher pursued with clarity, vigour and long term success, forging the new economic consensus.
So, Heath got it wrong, big time, but has the obloquy been overdone?
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
The referendum is non-binding (as all referendum are in the UK), and does not cause the invocation of Article 50.
I do not believe that - if we were to win by a single vote - that David Cameron would be able to ignore the vote. Any attempt to circumvent it would be political suicide, with the Cameron hounded out of the leadership of the Conservative Party.
The big question is what comes after a vote for Leave. I believe it would be necessary for the new Conservative Leader to either call an immediate election (so various parties could stand with their own visions for the UK outside the EU), or for a referendum on Britain outside the EU: EFTA/EEA vs CO.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
No, he really isn't. He is leading (after a fashion) a fairly incompetent managerialist government with no actual principles, but lots and lots of spin.
But as a kipper, you would say that, wouldn't you.
I am not a member of any political party. Now how about engaging with what I said rather than worrying about me as an individual.
I have witnessed more than enough of your virulent, sneering grubby personal attacks on Cameron not to take you seriously as a commentator on the Conservative party and hope you stay well away from us. I am sure the sentiment is reciprocated.
Golly. I didn't realise that criticising the PM was such a dreadful thing. I confess that I have from time to time pointed out that Cameron's words are often not matched by his actions, and I have called into question his leadership skills (given the current state of the Conservative Party who wouldn't). However if that makes up to "virulent. sneering, grubby personal" attacks in your world I am glad I don't live in it.
However, I shall respect your wishes and stay away well away from you, who ever you are.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems.
Well yes, the 1970 programme did look good. Which only made what actually happened (including attempts by a 'Conservative' government to control almost every price and wage in the country and the ridiculous, naive pump-priming of 1972-73) even more dreadful.
I agree. It's a fascinating question: what if the external headwinds, which led to the Barber Boom and other abominations, had not existed?
Heath, Barber, Carr, Maudling et all were all products of their time. They reached adulthood in the 1930s and were determined that the Conservative party would not be associated again with the mass unemployment of that time. So when the jobless total rose above 1 million in late 1971 and seemed destined to increase inexorably beyond that, yes, they 'panicked', as Macmillan had done in 1962, with their own dash for growth.
Ironically, it was Labour post 1976, that ushered in monetarism and the final inglorious end to Butskellism, which Mrs Thatcher pursued with clarity, vigour and long term success, forging the new economic consensus.
So, Heath got it wrong, big time, but has the obloquy been overdone?
We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession, and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting Government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and that in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step. - James Callaghan, 1976
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
In his very minimal defence, not that I want him to be able to clamp down on this story, but that's really down to Ken, isn't it? Short of gagging the man, what could Milne have done? Poor dear.
Pray for Leics to win today, wiping all else off tomorrow's front pages.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Surely this is some sort of typo and you meant "centre left"?
I've been a Tory activist since 1974, possibly before you were born, perhaps even your parents, and Cameron is leading a model centre-right Tory government.
I can imagine activists in 1973/74 trying to convince themselves that Heath was doing something similar. It must have been a bewildering time.
Compared to the ascendant Bennery and hard leftism
If we cast aside his Eurofanaticism (Europhile seems so weak a work), there was much to admire about the Selsdon Man project. The 1970 Conservative Prospectus seems.
Well yes, the 1970 programme did look good. Which only made what actually happened (including attempts by a 'Conservative' government to control almost every price and wage in the country and the ridiculous, naive pump-priming of 1972-73) even more dreadful.
I agree. It's a fascinating question: what if the external headwinds, which led to the Barber Boom and other abominations, had not existed?
Heath, Barber, Carr, Maudling et all were all products of their time. They reached adulthood in the 1930s and were determined that the Conservative party would not be associated again with the mass unemployment of that time. So when the jobless total rose above 1 million in late 1971 and seemed destined to increase inexorably beyond that, yes, they 'panicked', as Macmillan had done in 1962, with their own dash for growth.
Ironically, it was Labour post 1976, that ushered in monetarism and the final inglorious end to Butskellism, which Mrs Thatcher pursued with clarity, vigour and long term success, forging the new economic consensus.
So, Heath got it wrong, big time, but has the obloquy been overdone?
We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession, and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting Government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and that in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step. - James Callaghan, 1976
Yes, but didn't he make these comments with the IMF in mind, rather than being a true reflection of his opinions? I seem to recall the recent BBC4 evening on Callaghan made this point.
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
In his very minimal defence, not that I want him to be able to clamp down on this story, but that's really down to Ken, isn't it? Short of gagging the man, what could Milne have done? Poor dear.
Pray for Leics to win today, wiping all else off tomorrow's front pages.
Errr. Leicester drew with Man Utd today; do you mean Chelsea to beat Tottenham, thus ensuring Leicester are crowned champions?
Said piece was sourced, and published, by then comment editor, one S. Milne, who retains an 'absent on leave' arrangement with the newspaper. I believe this piece caused arguments in the newsroom.
It is to their eternal shame that Labour is now run by Milne. Utterly shameful.
...and he's doing so well: judging by the five days of front page headlines about the exact details of Hitler's Final Solution circa 1932.
In his very minimal defence, not that I want him to be able to clamp down on this story, but that's really down to Ken, isn't it? Short of gagging the man, what could Milne have done? Poor dear.
Pray for Leics to win today, wiping all else off tomorrow's front pages.
Errr. Leicester drew with Man Utd today; do you mean Chelsea to beat Tottenham, thus ensuring Leicester are crowned champions?
I meant yesterday, as it is now today, if you see what I mean.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
I think (happy to be contradicted) that it's entirely within the gift of the Prime Minister - it doesn't even need an order-in-council. If he transmitted a "we wish to leave" message to whoever, I wouldn't want to be the lawyer that argues that an article 50 Leave notice had not been served.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, but didn't he make these comments with the IMF in mind, rather than being a true reflection of his opinions? I seem to recall the recent BBC4 evening on Callaghan made this point.
Interesting; do you remember the name of the programme?
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, I agree.
I probably won't turn out (with my postal vote) not because I don't care, but because I genuinely don't know.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I'm not sure, if things go badly wrong for the EU over the next few years they might start begging people to join again.
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
More accurately, it's an argument for not making a decision until you have to.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, I agree.
I probably won't turn out (with my postal vote) not because I don't care, but because I genuinely don't know.
Oh, I will - it's too important to opt out of casting a vote one way or the other.
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
More accurately, it's an argument for not making a decision until you have to.
Yes, but it a perpetually delayed decision to Leave is actually a decision to Remain.
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, I agree.
I probably won't turn out (with my postal vote) not because I don't care, but because I genuinely don't know.
Oh, I will - it's too important to opt out of casting a vote one way or the other.
I will if I can come to a decision about it, but I'm finding it difficult. Are you leaning one way or the other?
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
More accurately, it's an argument for not making a decision until you have to.
Yes, but it a perpetually delayed decision to Leave is actually a decision to Remain.
It's also a perpetually maintained bargaining chip. You can only leave once.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I see it the other way round. If we vote Leave and it's a mistake, well. it's only one small country out of the larger EU - no big deal to the wider world.
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
More accurately, it's an argument for not making a decision until you have to.
Yes, but it a perpetually delayed decision to Leave is actually a decision to Remain.
It's also a perpetually maintained bargaining chip. You can only leave once.
Hmmm... I've said it once, I'll say it again:
We will never be happy members of the EU project. For both us, and our neighbours, it would be better if we left.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I see it the other way round. If we vote Leave and it's a mistake, well. it's only one small country out of the larger EU - no big deal to the wider world.
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
EFTA/EEA is that riverbank. The EU, without the political elements.
Sure, it's not enough for some people, but most are happy with a free trade block that does not seek judicial oversight of its members.
The issue, for me, is that we end up thrashing about attempting to forge the unforgeable. The Commonwealth will never be a major trading bloc. We would be no happier in NAFTA than in the EU.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, I agree.
I probably won't turn out (with my postal vote) not because I don't care, but because I genuinely don't know.
Oh, I will - it's too important to opt out of casting a vote one way or the other.
I will if I can come to a decision about it, but I'm finding it difficult. Are you leaning one way or the other?
My heart is very keen on Leave - I am delighted with polls that show it won't be a walk-over for Remain - but I don't know what my mind makes of it yet.
I like to have a good reason for doing things, and an emotional "Yah-boo" response isn't a good reason (not to me at any rate).
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
But that's an argument for never making a decision.
More accurately, it's an argument for not making a decision until you have to.
Yes, but it a perpetually delayed decision to Leave is actually a decision to Remain.
It's also a perpetually maintained bargaining chip. You can only leave once.
Hmmm... I've said it once, I'll say it again:
We will never be happy members of the EU project. For both us, and our neighbours, it would be better if we left.
Indeed. And as for the perpetually maintained bargaining chip, more like the boy calling 'wolf'
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I see it the other way round. If we vote Leave and it's a mistake, well. it's only one small country out of the larger EU - no big deal to the wider world.
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
EFTA/EEA is that riverbank. The EU, without the political elements.
Sure, it's not enough for some people, but most are happy with a free trade block that does not seek judicial oversight of its members.
The issue, for me, is that we end up thrashing about attempting to forge the unforgeable. The Commonwealth will never be a major trading bloc. We would be no happier in NAFTA than in the EU.
Given the tenor of the debate on the issue over the last few decades EFTA/EEA would be seen as a con by the political elite and would only deepen the anti-establishment, even revolutionary feeling among the true outers.
At least if we remain fully paid-up members then people have something tangible on which to pin their resentment at the interconnectedness of the modern world. It's not perfect and it will continue to lead to a dysfunctional politics in some areas (I've given up hope that a Remain victory will settle the issue), but we're used to it and anyway, EFTA/EEA wouldn't really fix this.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
Irrespective of the result, I sincerely hope that the turnout level is decent. A decision of this magnitude voted on by just 45% of the population (and therefore less than 25% of voters having committed to the winning side), would be sad.
Yes, I agree.
I probably won't turn out (with my postal vote) not because I don't care, but because I genuinely don't know.
Oh, I will - it's too important to opt out of casting a vote one way or the other.
I will if I can come to a decision about it, but I'm finding it difficult. Are you leaning one way or the other?
My heart is very keen on Leave - I am delighted with polls that show it won't be a walk-over for Remain - but I don't know what my mind makes of it yet.
I like to have a good reason for doing things, and an emotional "Yah-boo" response isn't a good reason (not to me at any rate).
Indeed, I'd like to vote with a clear conscience! I'd like to debate it more, but I've got to work! Cheerio!
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
snipped
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I see it the other way round. If we vote Leave and it's a mistake, well. it's only one small country out of the larger EU - no big deal to the wider world.
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
My concern would be that a Brexit would precipitate the Niagara Falls event, with the disruption that implies. Some would welcome this, but - to my mind - such cascading destruction will bring only pain
There was an art movement[1] before World War 1 that - giddy with the inventions of the age - celebrated destruction. Then WW1 happened and it wasn't so popular any more.
There is always a strain in human behavior that thinks everything that has been built should fall and from the ashes we'll build a better one. I understand the urge, but it's always the poor schmucks that pay for such idealism. As PJ O'Roarke once said, "it's one thing to burn down the outhouse, it's another to install plumbing"
[1] I think it was the Fauves or the Vorticists, but don't quote me.
What you say in your first para is very true, and in fact I am very glad that it wasn't included.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
Vote REMAIN. If it turns out to be the wrong decision, the UK can LEAVE at a later date. But if you vote LEAVE and it turns out to be the wrong decision...you're stuck.
I see it the other way round. If we vote Leave and it's a mistake, well. it's only one small country out of the larger EU - no big deal to the wider world.
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
My concern would be that a Brexit would precipitate the Niagara Falls event, with the disruption that implies. Some would welcome this, but - to my mind - such cascading destruction will bring only pain
There was an art movement[1] before World War 1 that - giddy with the inventions of the age - celebrated destruction. Then WW1 happened and it wasn't so popular any more.
There is always a strain in human behavior that thinks everything that has been built should fall and from the ashes we'll build a better one. I understand the urge, but it's always the poor schmucks that pay for such idealism. As PJ O'Roarke once said, "it's one thing to burn down the outhouse, it's another to install plumbing"
[1] I think it was the Fauves or the Vorticists, but don't quote me.
Brexit might very possibly precipitate the catastrophe, but it won't be the reason for it. The reason (IMHO) is that there's something very unsound at the heart of the EU project.
I don't welcome any catastrophe, I fear it. I wish the EU countries only the very best and hope that they can find their way through the difficulties.
But it seems to me that we've done our very best to persuade & help the EU to install plumbing and they are not interested.
It's been reported that 18 athletes who competed in the 2012 London Olympics have died since the Games. French-language media have begun talking about a "curse", but is there any justification for this?"
It's been reported that 18 athletes who competed in the 2012 London Olympics have died since the Games. French-language media have begun talking about a "curse", but is there any justification for this?"
I don't give the proverbial flying thinggy what Cable or any other grasping LibDem toad thinks (hence the jubilation this time last May): Cameron couldn't be clearer that Leave means leave and that's to his credit, the more so since he will leave politics with a reputation ruined.
Which, in part, explains why I shall be patriotically be voting Remain. Now, above all now, with the existential threat that Corbyn and his gang of thugs, poses to this country, we need a mainstream, moderate centre right government to remain in office for at least the next 10 years until a viable left of centre alternative re-emerges from the dismal primeval slime that is presently 'Labour'.
Absolutely. I didn't give a flying fig about what Cable said even when he was an MP. Nor did anyone else. Why are the Leavers suddenly having orgasms over his ramblings?
Panic in the remain camp I see - lol
As the Remainers hang Cable out to dry - nothing to do with us, Guv... - his isolation will be complete when Cameron is asked "Prime Minister, is it true that If there is a 51/49 vote for Brexit on a 50 per cent turnout, Parliament isn't going to allow Brexit on that basis?" He will of course have to confirm that if Leave wins by one vote - we will Leave.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
With hindsight, it's rather a surprise that a 'pass-mark' wasn't built in at the start. It is rather a big decision to make on a very low turn-out and with a very finely balanced opinion in the country.
But whatever that passmark, it would have been widely seen as a way to rig the election - and so would have undone all the good work of offering it in the first place.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
Thresholds based on total turnout are dumb as they create the perverse incentive for suppliers of the status quo (here Remain) to abstain rather than vote as they believe in order to win due to turnout rather than winning. Also has the perverse effect that a bigger change win can cause change to lose.
If you're going to have a threshold set it on the winners turnout alone, don't take into account the losers.
Eg Leave need a majority of votes consisting of say 30% of the electorate. Not a majority of votes of a 55% turnout.
It's been reported that 18 athletes who competed in the 2012 London Olympics have died since the Games. French-language media have begun talking about a "curse", but is there any justification for this?"
I wish the audience at The Crucible would stop laughing at Dennis Taylor's jokes which they're listening to through earphones.
I was wondering about that. After about three instances, I noticed that the audience in the venue was laughing after humorous comments by the commentators. I wondered if they were being fed the commentary as an integral part of the process of being there. If not, it would surely be a bit off-putting and confusing for those in the audience without ear-phones.
Comments
Julie Burchill: Labour Party "Jew-hatred" is cynical bid for Muslim vote https://t.co/OAEWkwuqOO https://t.co/zjR7ufWQI3
Indeed it is. Unfortunately Cameron has a history of saying one thing but not actually following through with actions that match (e.g. his 2013 speech on the EU and where we are today).
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/if-wiltshire-tories-regard-george-osborne-as-a-socialist-he-has-a-problem/
I do like the current trend of Blair really being a Tory and Cameron a LD (saw that one four years ago, but it seems more common now).
"Of course, in opposing the European Union, socialists find themselves in extremely nauseating company – from the anti-immigrant, xenophobic and islamophobic sections of society, to the little Englanders harking back to the imperial glory days when Britannia ruled the waves all on its little own. The little Englanders imagine that it is somehow possible for that glory, if you can call it that (not everybody would agree), to be restored under the leadership of the right political party."
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=proletarian&subName=display&art=1190
Do they mean Hug-a-Hitler Ken?
With apologies to any biblical scholars.
Referendum on Lisbon...
...Immigration to tens of thousands...
...referendum 'lock'...
...'we will reclaim powers from Brussels'...
...'real change in Europe'.
It's all so much empty rhetoric.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/07/david-cameron-exit-warning-eu-reform
Blairite = Zionist
Hitler = Zionist
Therefore
Hitler = Blairite
This explains everything.
It will also be worth digging down into the procedure after the Referendum result. Does Parliament even GET a vote on triggering Article 50? I presume that the Cabinet will have to approve it- but if any Cabinet member refused to implement the will of the voters, I would expect them to resign from the Cabinet.
Blair won three terms as PM, a triangle has three sides, the bermuda triangle is a triangle, bermuda has a coast line, Isreal has a coastline, the flag of David has a star, the star has 6 triangles, 6 take 5 is 1, there is one eye in the iluminati sign. Blair= illuminati confirmed.
Ironically, it was Labour post 1976, that ushered in monetarism and the final inglorious end to Butskellism, which Mrs Thatcher pursued with clarity, vigour and long term success, forging the new economic consensus.
So, Heath got it wrong, big time, but has the obloquy been overdone?
I do not believe that - if we were to win by a single vote - that David Cameron would be able to ignore the vote. Any attempt to circumvent it would be political suicide, with the Cameron hounded out of the leadership of the Conservative Party.
The big question is what comes after a vote for Leave. I believe it would be necessary for the new Conservative Leader to either call an immediate election (so various parties could stand with their own visions for the UK outside the EU), or for a referendum on Britain outside the EU: EFTA/EEA vs CO.
However, I shall respect your wishes and stay away well away from you, who ever you are.
And clearly, Remain were just so cocksure that they couldn't possibly lose it, why bother with a pass-mark....?
The likes of Roger will refuse to listen and learn though.
But I still don't know which way to vote!
I wish the audience at The Crucible would stop laughing at Dennis Taylor's jokes which they're listening to through earphones.
Callaghan's 1976 Leader's Speech is actually pretty interesting: http://www.britishpoliticalspeech.org/speech-archive.htm?speech=174
But I have the feeling that the EU may be heading towards something of a Niagara Falls event, in which case a friendly country standing on the bank might be able to help all the others, somehow.
We will never be happy members of the EU project. For both us, and our neighbours, it would be better if we left.
Sure, it's not enough for some people, but most are happy with a free trade block that does not seek judicial oversight of its members.
The issue, for me, is that we end up thrashing about attempting to forge the unforgeable. The Commonwealth will never be a major trading bloc. We would be no happier in NAFTA than in the EU.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568601/Farage-s-15-000-day-bodyguards-taxpayer-Ukip-leader-branded-hypocrite-using-EU-money-fund-team-ex-military-personnel-attacking-wasteful-spending-Brussels.html
I like to have a good reason for doing things, and an emotional "Yah-boo" response isn't a good reason (not to me at any rate).
At least if we remain fully paid-up members then people have something tangible on which to pin their resentment at the interconnectedness of the modern world. It's not perfect and it will continue to lead to a dysfunctional politics in some areas (I've given up hope that a Remain victory will settle the issue), but we're used to it and anyway, EFTA/EEA wouldn't really fix this.
There was an art movement[1] before World War 1 that - giddy with the inventions of the age - celebrated destruction. Then WW1 happened and it wasn't so popular any more.
There is always a strain in human behavior that thinks everything that has been built should fall and from the ashes we'll build a better one. I understand the urge, but it's always the poor schmucks that pay for such idealism. As PJ O'Roarke once said, "it's one thing to burn down the outhouse, it's another to install plumbing"
[1] I think it was the Fauves or the Vorticists, but don't quote me.
I don't welcome any catastrophe, I fear it. I wish the EU countries only the very best and hope that they can find their way through the difficulties.
But it seems to me that we've done our very best to persuade & help the EU to install plumbing and they are not interested.
"Is there a London 2012 Olympics 'curse'?
It's been reported that 18 athletes who competed in the 2012 London Olympics have died since the Games. French-language media have begun talking about a "curse", but is there any justification for this?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36055238
If you're going to have a threshold set it on the winners turnout alone, don't take into account the losers.
Eg Leave need a majority of votes consisting of say 30% of the electorate. Not a majority of votes of a 55% turnout.
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