On the economics, it comes down to whether you rate completion and deepening of the single market in services inside the EU over the opportunities to pursue global trade deals, regulate ourselves, control our own migration policy, and have control over social and employment policy - at some short term economic cost, which is inevitable when exiting a longstanding economic union.
I think the latter is more important than the former, particularly when the politics is factored in. You think the reverse.
Fair enough. That's how we're deciding to vote in this referendum.
Yes, I think that's a fair characterisation.
Pleased to agree at last!
Still, a bit of a shame we're on different sides, but that's politics I guess :-)
We agree on most things, Casino. Even on this issue, it's simply a question of giving different weights to the benefits and risks.
Yes, like many of us I suspect, I'm not fully comfortable being on the opposite side to erstwhile political allies on something I feel so strongly about.
I wish it wasn't so, but we all have to make our own mind up, don't we?
1. Imagine a Labour MP has endorsed a Facebook post suggesting that, as a “solution” to the problem of Islamist terrorism in the West, all Muslims living there must be “relocated” to the Middle East (“plenty of land… surrounded by friendly states… the West will again be peaceful… whole world will be happy…”). How do you respond?...
Mr. NorthWales, we need an urgent consensus to settle whether or not Chairman Corbyn's nicknames should include the Fuhrer. And also to let people know how to write umlauts on British keyboards, if so.
How on earth has it come to this - one week before national elections labour introduce Hitler. I thought IDS was bad for his party but this is on a scale so high it is just gobsmacking
Remain is the end of financial services Brexit is the end of manufacturing.
Sweet Jesus.
you forgot the bit about Britain falling in to the sea, four horsemen and the asteroid strike.
Plague of frogs?
There was guy on ITV last night.... Martyn Lewis, IIRC ..... who was making the very sensible point that none of the prophesised catastophes were in fact at all likely. Nor were the utopian situations envisaged by both sides. Making ones choice on which was to vote was a question of balance. There would be tendencies towards one situation or another and how one voted .... I got the impression how he was going to vote ..... would depend on how he saw the seesaw tipping as the debate went on. Might well not be a lot either way.
On the economics, it comes down to whether you rate completion and deepening of the single market in services inside the EU over the opportunities to pursue global trade deals, regulate ourselves, control our own migration policy, and have control over social and employment policy - at some short term economic cost, which is inevitable when exiting a longstanding economic union.
I think the latter is more important than the former, particularly when the politics is factored in. You think the reverse.
Fair enough. That's how we're deciding to vote in this referendum.
Yes, I think that's a fair characterisation.
Pleased to agree at last!
Still, a bit of a shame we're on different sides, but that's politics I guess :-)
We agree on most things, Casino. Even on this issue, it's simply a question of giving different weights to the benefits and risks.
Yes, like many of us I suspect, I'm not fully comfortable being on the opposite side to erstwhile political allies on something I feel so strongly about.
I wish it wasn't so, but we all have to make our own mind up, don't we?
I am very uncomfortable with the issue dividing many of us but I am willing to accept the will of the people, no matter what the result is, and move on and for the party to return to governing the Country which is the governments first responsibilty
LOL wow unable to stop smiling because something so black, wonderful & LIT just happened! And of course, the catalyst was a radical non-binary trans black activist – Wandile Dlamini – from the Rhodes Must Fall movement. Because trans activists have BEEN the ultimate blessers of this decolonial struggle!
Is that for real?! It's the sort of over the top ridiculousness where even if one agrees with some of the fundamental premise one would surely be embarrassed to be associated with such a open and unabashed racist.
I don't want to interfere in Labour's self destruction but when Tom Watson and Andy Burnham announce that anti-semitism must be dealt with are they saying that Corbyn and McDonnell need overthrowing, as unless they are nothing will happen. Also how can a labour leader be banned from campaigning in Scotland, Wales and London by his own first Ministers and his mayoral candidate. The 'end is nigh' methinks
Trouble is, just how can they rid the party of Corbyn and the other cabal of nutters on the Labour front bench? There's nothing stopping him from standing for re-election again. There has to be a change of party rules that excludes the automatic right of the leader to stand again without nomination.
The utter tragedy is that he would probably win again, so unless he actually agrees not to stand again for the good of his party, Labour are stuck with him, the same as they were with Brown, then Miliband. There'll be no coup, the PLP simply does not have the stomach to do it.
I'm not sure the Holyrood overspend was much of a story in Germany
Yes but how about this as a solution when the fire system didn't work:
"In March 2012 the group submitted its stopgap: Eight hundred low-paid workers armed with cell phones would take up positions throughout the terminal. If anyone smelled smoke or saw a fire, he would alert the airport fire station and direct passengers toward the exits."
I'm reading the story now; it's hilarious.
It is entertaining, but the journalist has woven too much bullshit into the article. You can't skewer the project for being economically unnecessary - and also blame delays in its completion for holding back growth.
"Berlin Brandenburg airport was at best an economically unnecessary symbol of unity and growth."
and then...
"the airport should begin operations in 2017. Berliners are trying to remain patient as tourism is booming and growth is limited by a lack of flights."
Surely this is a LEAVE argument that free-trade deals can't be negotiated anymore in the EU because 28 member-states barely ever agree, especially with increasing political polarisation?
Your spin is ridiculous.
So you're not too concerned about that EU trading agreement with the UK?
Since the EU is by far Britain's largest trading partner and the Leave camp has been pooh-poohing any suggestion that it might more than 5 minutes and an argument over who is going to have the last biscuit, I can't help but admire the unblushing inconsistency of the Leavers.
We are already in the EEA, step 1 should be to drop into that, which should be effortless as we already abide by its laws/regulations. From that point, we can begin negotiating a trade deal to drop out of EEA into an EFTA - our trade should continue under EEA terms until it is finished. No doubt some other EU memberstates will follow our lead and our negotiating position will strengthen within the space of a few months. After that whether an EFTA is still the best scenario can then be debated.
We are currently in the EEA by virtue of our EU membership. Accession to the EEA post Brexit would not be automatic and we would have to become a party to the EEA Agreement in our own right, with the agreement (which one imagines would be readily forthcoming) of the other EEA signatories.
LOL wow unable to stop smiling because something so black, wonderful & LIT just happened! And of course, the catalyst was a radical non-binary trans black activist – Wandile Dlamini – from the Rhodes Must Fall movement. Because trans activists have BEEN the ultimate blessers of this decolonial struggle!
Is that for real?! It's the sort of over the top ridiculousness where even if one agrees with some of the fundamental premise one would surely be embarrassed to be associated with such a open and unabashed racist.
I had to keep stopping when reading it. It's just appalling.
The best thing a PPC / MP could do is a) delete all their social media and start afresh and b) basically admit "youthful indiscretions" upfront. It is always the cover up / lying that people hate, not well "I tried drugs when I was 19" or whatever. Mensch I seemed to remember taking that approach and it didn't do her any harm.
But Naz Shah's comments weren't youthful indiscretions, the sort of thing that might be dismissed as the antics of a drunken teenager, they are the postings of a sober adult from only a few years ago. I don't know about other people but I've never posted or made such antisemitic comments. Naz Shah is a bigot, and she has got off very lightly.
That wasn't what we were talking about. We were talking about all these future MPs who will have posted nonsense on social media.
How many prospective MPs will have had their chances scuppered by their posts on the politicalbetting web site?
Remain is the end of financial services Brexit is the end of manufacturing.
Sweet Jesus.
you forgot the bit about Britain falling in to the sea, four horsemen and the asteroid strike.
Plague of frogs?
There was guy on ITV last night.... Martyn Lewis, IIRC ..... who was making the very sensible point that none of the prophesised catastophes were in fact at all likely. Nor were the utopian situations envisaged by both sides. Making ones choice on which was to vote was a question of balance. There would be tendencies towards one situation or another and how one voted .... I got the impression how he was going to vote ..... would depend on how he saw the seesaw tipping as the debate went on. Might well not be a lot either way.
Bit like the result itself I suspect.
Martyn Lewis has been one of the few tipsters who has made some sense. He says he leans towards Remain but has rightly pointed out most of the forecasts were nonsense.
His advice last time was do what makes you happiest.
Naz Shah MP was found to have said some anti-Semitic things on social media. After some bitter internal wrangling she was suspended from the party. Fellow MP Rupa Huq tried to come to her defence and compared anti-Semitism to any old mishap. And then Ken Livingstone smoothed it all over by talking about which of Hitler’s policies he thinks Zionists agree with.
LOL wow unable to stop smiling because something so black, wonderful & LIT just happened! And of course, the catalyst was a radical non-binary trans black activist – Wandile Dlamini – from the Rhodes Must Fall movement. Because trans activists have BEEN the ultimate blessers of this decolonial struggle!
One word comes to mind...racist!
Why didn't he go the whole hog and pull her pig tails? Pathetic trustafarian wanker.
A small mammal has sabotaged the world's most powerful scientific instrument.
The Large Hadron Collider, a 17-mile superconducting machine designed to smash protons together at close to the speed of light, went offline last night. Engineers investigating the mishap found the charred remains of a furry creature near a gnawed-through power cable.
I will be shocked if the Sundays don't find a tory somewhere that has posted something islamophobic.
Saving that for next week? It cannot be hard to find such.
Wishful thinking? I'm certain the twitterati would have uncovered such remarks long before now if they ever existed. Even if they did, it won't be on anything like the scale of the shit storm that has hit Labour.
The anti-Semitism that exists in Labour goes right to the very top.
Right, I've got a 5+ hour train journey ahead of me and an actual literal bag of popcorn; the two main parties intent on self-destruction (so much easier to fight the enemy within: you always know where to find them); only the frothers, loons and nutters standing between the UK and complete domination by an unelected European elite hellbent on a superstate (which is good, because the two main parties' leaderships agree on one thing: the only way for Britain to be safe from our elected representatives' lunatic policies is to vote for the Eurocracy to hold a permanent veto over them); and a pending debate about whether the anti-anti-Semites are more Islamophobic than Muslims who associate with other Muslims are anti-semitic; and all the while Ken's selflessly trying to dig a hole so deep that the Edstone (along with the Labour party) can be buried once and for all.
PB was made for these moments.
A tip for the person sitting next to you for 5 hours: "don't start up a conversation".
Comments
I wish it wasn't so, but we all have to make our own mind up, don't we?
So clearly Brexit is the lesser of two evils. Except the characterization of both is incorrect.
Trump 41 .. Cruz 32 .. Kasich 21
Clinton 51 .. Sanders 42
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/polls/arg-24405
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/polls/arg-24406
Note - 400 sample and it is ARG ....
Have watched this 5 times, @SeumasMilne is saying the founding of Israel is a crime https://t.co/nBi7H60ejA https://t.co/woenV2o5EU
Clinton 54 .. Sanders 41
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/local-politics/IPFW-poll--Hoosiers-like-Clinton-12787113
Note - Sample 400
There was guy on ITV last night.... Martyn Lewis, IIRC ..... who was making the very sensible point that none of the prophesised catastophes were in fact at all likely. Nor were the utopian situations envisaged by both sides. Making ones choice on which was to vote was a question of balance. There would be tendencies towards one situation or another and how one voted .... I got the impression how he was going to vote ..... would depend on how he saw the seesaw tipping as the debate went on. Might well not be a lot either way.
Bit like the result itself I suspect.
Wake me up when you can read...
The utter tragedy is that he would probably win again, so unless he actually agrees not to stand again for the good of his party, Labour are stuck with him, the same as they were with Brown, then Miliband. There'll be no coup, the PLP simply does not have the stomach to do it.
"Berlin Brandenburg airport was at best an economically unnecessary symbol of unity and growth."
and then...
"the airport should begin operations in 2017. Berliners are trying to remain patient as tourism is booming and growth is limited by a lack of flights."
No wonder Bloomberg doesn't allow comments.
B-
His advice last time was do what makes you happiest.
Why didn't he go the whole hog and pull her pig tails? Pathetic trustafarian wanker.
Corbyn and McDonnell will speak following the unveiling of a portrait of Castro on Sunday: https://t.co/tKOuj3tHvx
The anti-Semitism that exists in Labour goes right to the very top.