May I enquire as to why lots of Lefties are filling Twitter with claims that the NHS died today?
I've no idea what they're squealing about, but they are in full throated outrage. Is this an April Fool that's gotten out of hand?
CTL-R [Search & Replace]
Find What: "Mandela" Replace With:" NHS"
Tweet.
Carry on drinking.
Wonder how realistic Tony's blubbing will be when he joins the send off to today's living saint. Still, Iron Dave might even shed a tear or two. For the cameras you see.
Ryanair chief Michael O'Leary, boss of Gigginstown stud, gives 200,000 euros to fund for paralysed jockey JT McNamara after Akorakor win
O'Leary is leading racehorse owner and sponsors the Ryanair Chase, a championship event at the Cheltenham Festival. It is entirely appropriate that he should make such a gift and this will be well received.
He is a bit of a character and generally divides opinion, but not on this of course.
The news on JT McNamara isn't all bad. He does not have brain damage, as was once feared. Even the paralysis may respond in due course. It is early days, and The Injured Jockeys Fund does great work in supporting such cases. He will receive the very best medical care, with or without O'Leary's welcome contribution.
Incidentally, if anybody is looking for a home for a percentage of their ill-gotten gains from betting, on politics or anything else, I can strongly recommend the IJF. It is a very well run charity.
When Chinese windmill and solar panel makers are declared bankcrupt and follow a very long line of other profiteers - the writing is on the wall.
That some are still claiming or redrawing the AGW argument as WoteverTheWeather It's All Evidence is just not credible. It was too warm, now its too cold - and its all evidence for their dubious at best claims that didn't bear the slightest scrutiny, but used bent/industry/political agenda to promote their claims.
I was drawn into the whole warming schitck when I wore a t-shirt in January a few years ago and my daffodils were up in Feb- and then things changed as I read the arguments and made up my own mind. That some are religiously clinging to it strikes me as perverse on so many levels.
@Plato If you decided to reduce your expenditure on the upkeep of vermin of an imported invasive species which massacres indigenous British wildlife, you might have more money to heat your home. It's a question of priorities.
When Chinese windmill and solar panel makers are declared bankcrupt and follow a very long line of other profiteers - the writing is on the wall.
That some are still claiming or redrawing the AGW argument as WoteverTheWeather It's All Evidence is just not credible. It was too warm, now its too cold - and its all evidence for their dubious at best claims that didn't bear the slightest scrutiny, but used bent/industry/political agenda to promote their claims.
I was drawn into the whole warming schitck when I wore a t-shirt in January a few years ago and my daffodils were up in Feb- and then things changed as I read the arguments and made up my own mind. That some are religiously clinging to it strikes me as perverse on so many levels.
Surely you know the routine?
Mild winter? Proof of global warming.
Cold winter?
Weather is not climate, and anyway global warming makes winters colder.
Still, at least lord Stern was handsomely rewarded for his "scientific" inquiry. We could have just saved ourselves the cost and just printed out what had been decided beforehand.
What is this fascist blog doing advertising itself above these comments? It calls itself 'thecommentator' and looks pretty unwholesome as do most of these 'conservative' blogs with Israeli/US connections
" .... vermin of an imported invasive species ...."
Oi, my cat is British. He was born here and so is a British as you or anyone else. As for calling him, "Vermin" that just a typical slur spread by a certain type of extreme-right wing loon for whom everyone whose ancestry doesn't match what they like to pretend is their own. Specieists the lot of them and I am amazed they are given space in which to try and propagate their disgusting views. No wonder HMG said blogs should be brought under the same laws as the press when such vile nonsense is thrown around in their comments sections.
What is this fascist blog doing advertising itself above these comments? It calls itself 'thecommentator' and looks pretty unwholesome as do most of these 'conservative' blogs with Israeli/US connections
I'm not getting it. Maybe, like Fat Bill, you are the victim of a "vast" right wing conspiracy.
I don't know if global warming is man made or not, but what I do know is that is a touch foolish to say that it does not exists at all based on the weather in our little country. When I was in New Zealand it was considerably hotter and drier there than it is normally, and the North Island is currentlyu suffering its worst drought in 30 years.
Companies go bust all the time, even when trading conditions are absolutely perfect. if they have bad managements, bad products or are over-leveraged, they will be vulnerable - especially when competition is intense. And competition is often at its most intense when myriad operators see opportunities in the same market.
That Al Gore has a house and bank balance so big it can be seen from space says it all :^ )
You've convinced me. What do the views of every national scientific academy count for if Al Gore has a big house...
have to say when a dumpling like Gore can make squillions out of scaremongering on climate change it does kind of make you wonder. Dumb and dumber does not come close, just another scam.
@HurstLlama I appreciate much of your post is ironic. However, no sensible person would dissent from the proposition that Japanese Knotweed is an imported invasive species which massacres indigenous British wildlife, and there is no difference in principle between the position of a cat and the position of fallopia japonica.
@Plato You plainly have not been reduced to either heating your home or eating. You have made a choice to spend a large amount of money on discretionary luxuries. It is nobody's fault but your own if the result of that decision is that you have had to cut back on necessities.
"Paolo Di Canio: Sunderland manager hurt by fascist claims"
The problem for Sunderland is that this will now act as a magnet for all the football nutters who want to attach themselves to the fascist cause. I understand there was an impromptu EDL march through Sunderland this morning. It's not really Di Canio's fault-it's the archivists at the news organization who put the story about-but it's bad news for football and Sunderland
Care to enlighten me (save for the obvious and extraneous fact that one is a plant and the other an animal)? Both are invasive and imported species which have deleterious consequences for indigenous British wildlife.
Yet how we cheered when dodgy jokes on twitter landed you in jail, or when Boris bans ads from London buses that do not fit the nomenklatura's world view.
Why should we be surprised? Maybe it's simply time to quote Niemoller's immortal statement.
I don't know if global warming is man made or not, but what I do know is that is a touch foolish to say that it does not exists at all based on the weather in our little country.
People are saying global warming flat-lined in 1998 because that's what the data has said for the last 15 years.
When was the last time we had a heatwave that killed as many because of heat than cold?
Never springs to mind. As I said - when does ideology meet reality here? Clearly not.
Stick to your point of view, its your prerogative - just don't expect me to die of cold to support yours
I don't have the exact numbers to hand, but droughts and heatwaves have killed tens of thousands within the last decade. There is also suffering beyond pure deaths: 300,000 were affected during India's 2002 drought, for instance.
I'm also getting confused over your view. Are you advocating for allowing more emissions as we want more global warming, or are you saying emissions do not affect global warming? It's like someone arguing "I never borrowed your car, so I can't have crashed it, and anyway, it was in perfect condition when I gave it back to you."
"Paolo Di Canio: Sunderland manager hurt by fascist claims"
The problem for Sunderland is that this will now act as a magnet for all the football nutters who want to attach themselves to the fascist cause. I understand there was an impromptu EDL march through Sunderland this morning. It's not really Di Canio's fault-it's the archivists at the news organization who put the story about-but it's bad news for football and Sunderland
No-one forced diCanio to give that fascist salute or lavish praise on Mussolini. He's had eight years to repudiate both actions. He never has. Saying you were quoted out of context is the last excuse of someone who does not have a leg to stand on.
Well Google the numbers and then we can debate your point that more people died in the UK from the heat than from the cold in say the last 10 yrs as a yardstick - or in fact any period you'd choose.
I look forward to seeing reliably sourced figures here that prove me wrong.
EDIT blogs from pro-AGW sites are obviously out of scope - such as RealClimate etc - let's stick to ones officially sanctioned by gov sites et al.
@Plato You appear to have descended into the realm of personal insults. This might put off new posters. You cannot plausibly maintain that you would not have more income (which could be spent on heating or eating) if you disposed of the vermin you keep. Or is that indeed your position? Otherwise, notwithstanding speculation as to my possible deity, your post is dross.
I'm also getting confused over your view. Are you advocating for allowing more emissions as we want more global warming, or are you saying emissions do not affect global warming? It's like someone arguing "I never borrowed your car, so I can't have crashed it, and anyway, it was in perfect condition when I gave it back to you."
20,000 died in Europe during the heatwave of 2003.
What Plato seems to be struggling with is the idea that global warming is by its very nature not a uniquely British phenomonen.
What is this fascist blog doing advertising itself above these comments? It calls itself 'thecommentator' and looks pretty unwholesome as do most of these 'conservative' blogs with Israeli/US connections
You don't like it and I check it quite regularly. I doubt I'd like the tone of most/any of your daily website reads. Horses for courses I guess.
'Wonder if David Millipede would have resigned had Di Canio expressed admiration for Stalin. Probably not, as Millipede pere had no issue with Uncle Joe.'
Sunderland fans must be gutted to lose a hanger-on like Millipede,he must have made an enormous contribution.
I see irony doesn't cross your desk either - you insult me and this is your reply?! Really, what are you on? And you're calling everyone who owns a cat a vermin lover? Well that's about "Overall, it estimated that 26% of UK households owned cats and 31% owned dogs" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8501042.stm. I hope you canvass door-to-door for your chosen party.
@Plato You appear to have descended into the realm of personal insults. This might put off new posters.
You cannot plausibly maintain that you would not have more income (which could be spent on heating or eating) if you disposed of the vermin you keep. Or is that indeed your position?
Otherwise, notwithstanding speculation as to my possible deity, your post is dross.
Golly - this is most entertaining self righteousness - keep it coming :^ )
I don't know if global warming is man made or not, but what I do know is that is a touch foolish to say that it does not exists at all based on the weather in our little country.
People are saying global warming flat-lined in 1998 because that's what the data has said for the last 15 years.
As far as I can see there is nothing which you have linkled to that says global warming has stopped. It just says that land temperatures have flat-lined at what are historically above-average levels and that more of the heat is being absorbed by the oceans. The bloke whose piece the BBC blogs links to seems to believe that this is a temporary stay.
I have to go out so I'll be brief. Rats and Mice. Cats were domesticated, and much imported to the UK probably by the Romans, because between them and us is/was a symbiotic relationship - each provided something that the pother needed to thrive. Espcially in rural areas, cats still perform the same function today, of course some of them are just pets.
If you can demonstrate the same relationship between your plant and the English, I'll grant you have a point. Otherwise I'll just assume you don't like cats.
As far as I can see there is nothing which you have linkled to that says global warming has stopped. It just says that land temperatures have flat-lined at what are historically above-average levels and that more of the heat is being absorbed by the oceans. The bloke whose piece the BBC blogs links to seems to believe that this is a temporary stay.
Yes, it says land temperatures have flat-lined since 1998.
I'll be happy when that is incorporated into the official version of reality and then we can move on from there.
The heat/eat issue seems to be a recurring one. Why not downsize? Rent a room out? (I do the latter for a span when I need to save some extra cash towards something...).
Well Google the numbers and then we can debate your point that more people died in the UK from the heat than from the cold in say the last 10 yrs as a yardstick - or in fact any period you'd choose.
I look forward to seeing reliably sourced figures here that prove me wrong.
EDIT blogs from pro-AGW sites are obviously out of scope - such as RealClimate etc - let's stick to ones officially sanctioned by gov sites et al.
I'm happy to concede in the UK that cold-related deaths outrank heat-related deaths, although not globally.
I also don't think global warming is going to be a good strategy to reducing cold-related deaths. If the current predicted temperature rise is correct, for instance, our best estimates suggest a 2% fall in cold-related deaths by 2050:
A far more effective method - and with much less harm - would be to implement a mass retrofit program for insulating low income housing. We could fund it via a tax on emissions.
I don't know if global warming is man made or not, but what I do know is that is a touch foolish to say that it does not exists at all based on the weather in our little country.
People are saying global warming flat-lined in 1998 because that's what the data has said for the last 15 years.
As far as I can see there is nothing which you have linkled to that says global warming has stopped. It just says that land temperatures have flat-lined at what are historically above-average levels and that more of the heat is being absorbed by the oceans. The bloke whose piece the BBC blogs links to seems to believe that this is a temporary stay.
The Economist, perhaps the most level-headed of journals, now admits - in this week's edition - that temperatures have flatlined for fifteen years, and that this presents real problems for warmists. It says "climate is much more complex than we assumed".
Socrates is, by his own measure, five years away from having to abandon his entire belief system.
Pretending that the present data is not problematic for warmists is insane. Would have expected better of you.
I don't know if global warming is man made or not, but what I do know is that is a touch foolish to say that it does not exists at all based on the weather in our little country.
People are saying global warming flat-lined in 1998 because that's what the data has said for the last 15 years.
As far as I can see there is nothing which you have linkled to that says global warming has stopped. It just says that land temperatures have flat-lined at what are historically above-average levels and that more of the heat is being absorbed by the oceans. The bloke whose piece the BBC blogs links to seems to believe that this is a temporary stay.
The Economist, perhaps the most level-headed of journals, now admits - in this week's edition - that temperatures have flatlined for fifteen years, and that this presents real problems for warmists. It says "climate is much more complex than we assumed".
Socrates is, by his own measure, five years away from having to abandon his entire belief system.
Pretending that the present data is not problematic for warmists is insane. Would have expected better of you.
I am not pretending that. As I say below, I don't know if man made global warming is real or not, though I do accept that we are living in (or may have just lived through) a period in which the earth's temperatures have risen. My argument was with MrJones's interpretation of the BBC blog and the piece that it linked to. I also have a big problem with people citing weather in one country to draw conclusions about what is happening across the globe.
The Economist, perhaps the most level-headed of journals, now admits - in this week's edition - that temperatures have flatlined for fifteen years, and that this presents real problems for warmists. It says "climate is much more complex than we assumed".
Socrates is, by his own measure, five years away from having to abandon his entire belief system.
Pretending that the present data is not problematic for warmists is insane. Would have expected better of you.
The Akonomist changing tack? They were in the warmist camp last time I checked. Will they apologise to thier readers?
Rather than deciding whether manmade global warming is happening or not (it probably is, though it's only one factor out of many, and not necessarily the most significant), we'd be better off discussing whether it's a good thing or not, and whether we'd be better off adapting to it or trying to reverse it.
But a cold house is a cold house - I have insulation in my roof, double glazing et al but if I can't heat even my bedroom beyond 8C - what does that say?
Putting a jumper on a corpse doesn't cure hypothermia.
PS I think this dose of reality is required here. I go to bed with my laptop to listen to the radio and twitter - and snuggle up with the charger transformer in my hands as it keeps me warm.
When anyone wants to lecture me on the subject of heating - try doing this and then tell me what you do..
OT. Liam Byrne is being impressive. He's certainly giving IDS a torrid time. He's making him look like the brutal Tory his critics always imagined him to be.
Rather than deciding whether manmade global warming is happening or not (it probably is, though it's only one factor out of many, and not necessarily the most significant), we'd be better off discussing whether it's a good thing or not, and whether we'd be better off adapting to it or trying to reverse it.
But a cold house is a cold house - I have insulation in my roof, double glazing et al but if I can't heat even my bedroom beyond 8C - what does that say?
Putting a jumper on a corpse doesn't cure hypothermia.
It's hard for me to judge someone's situation. But it sounds like your house is highly unusual. The problem must either be a poor central heating system or excessive heat loss.
OT. Liam Byrne is being impressive. He's certainly giving IDS a torrid time. He's making him look like the brutal Tory his critics always imagined him to be.
Um, this is Liam "There Is No Money Left" Byrne we're talking about, right?
The incompetent fops really do have no idea what's going to hit them over that and their moronic welfare and NHS reforms. It's not an act, they really are that out of touch.
This is a government that couldn't even tax a pasty competently embarking on truly gigantic reforms across several vital and sensitive areas for the public. Reforms that even Blair couldn't get through. Though he did want to which is why Cammie wants to.
There are clear warnings already from the likes of citizens advice and other consumer advocate/disabled groups that this is likely to be another omnishambles. But who cares about that when you have blind faith in ideology? Or at least blind faith in the pretend ideology the incompetent fops stole from Blair.
1998 was a "freak year"? So does that mean we can discount freak cold years, too, when measuring warming?
Yes, we should. A five-year rolling average of global temperatures is appropriate. If this shows there is a decline over 20 years, then the current theory of AGW will be incorrect.
As for your belief system, I'm merely quoting YOU, when you said that 20 years without significant warming would be enough to destroy your very touching faith.
There's a difference between a belief and a belief system. My belief system is a mixture of science-based policy making, democratic liberalism, and preference for gradual change. That will survive, regardless of what my judgement on carbon emissions is.
@SouthamObserver "My argument was with MrJones's interpretation of the BBC blog and the piece that it linked to."
I interpret that he's saying land temperature flat-lined in 1998 is because he's saying land temperatures flat-lined in 1998.
That he's assuming global warming exists and therefore there *must* be some missing energy somewhere is a separate thing.
What you originally said was that global warming had flatlined since 1998. The article does not say that. Either way, though, I absolutely accept that those who were predicting doom a few years back are looking very foolish now - at least as far as the UK is concerned. In the southern hemisphere they may have more of a point. What I am yet to be convinced of, though, is whether they were flat wrong (which I very much hope is the case), or whether it was more a case of their use of language being too extreme and absolute, so that they failed to take into account the many possible nuances of the central thesis and the fact that the scientific thinking was relatively new and had the potential to develop.
@tim Agree with the first paragraph, and most of the second. Individuals ought to bear the costs of the decisions they take, under most circumstances. What is farcical is people complaining about the inevitable consequences of their own free choices, especially when those same people claim that they ought to have a right to dictate to welfare claimants what they can spend benefits on.
The principle is simple: if I spend a large amount of my income on crack (or the upkeep of vermin) rather than heating, which I ought to be entitled to do, then I ought not to expect sympathy.
"It's hard for me to judge someone's situation. But it sounds like your house is highly unusual."
You mean you have no evidence to contradict my actual experience. And therefore mine is an anomaly and therefore has no impact on your intellectual position.
Really? Excuse me for thinking you're talking through your snug hat.
"Rather than deciding whether manmade global warming is happening or not (it probably is, though it's only one factor out of many, and not necessarily the most significant), we'd be better off discussing whether it's a good thing or not, and whether we'd be better off adapting to it or trying to reverse it."
Agreed. "East Anglia - better as land or sea?" is a question that just hasn't been explored in enough depth yet.
It's also high time we had a good think about whether a global thermonuclear war would be all bad.
This year saw a record increase in the quantity of artic sea ice but this is largely because we were starting from a record low in 2011: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Even with this increase the maximum extent was still the 6th lowest ever recorded by satillite (which of course means a relatively short time frame).
Does this mean a change in direction or is the trend towards an ice free north pole still continuing? It will take several more years like this one to change the trend. First year ice will melt much more quickly as it is typically thinner. I think we are still heading to an ice free north pole within a relatively short period of time.
What is telling is that the projections from 10 years plus ago continuously have to be revisited reducing the extent of the projected change. Whilst the sun may well have played a major part in this I suspect that scientists have underestimated the compensatory capabilities of this wonderful rock that we are on.
The one thing that is crystal clear in this messy area is that our politicians have been embarrassingly parochial in their viewpoint. Reducing our carbon output by exporting manufacturing to China, for example, was not only very bad economics but incredibly stupid environmentalism because their energy is much dirtier than ours.
Unfortunately the current legislation seems to carry on this lunacy by making energy intensive manufacturing more difficult in this country. If we stopped preening as a nation and starting thinking globally I think we would have a set of policies that would have much greater support than the current mess.
"It's hard for me to judge someone's situation. But it sounds like your house is highly unusual."
You mean you have no evidence to contradict my actual experience. And therefore mine is an anomaly and therefore has no impact on your intellectual position.
Really? Excuse me for thinking you're talking through your snug hat.
I didn't say your house was an anomaly. I said it sounds like an anomaly. I would gladly like to understand the situation the better. If you can provide me with good reason to believe that there are a great number of houses in the UK that can not be heated above eight degrees even with a high quality retrofit, then I will reconsider my intellectual position.
He's making him look like the brutal Tory his critics always imagined him to be.
IDS magical 'transformation' into some kind of welfare sage was always laughable nonsense. A few tories and commentators spotted that he once talked to poor people in Easterhouse a few times and that was all it took to persuade them.
How soon they forgot that this is the 'quiet man' who's short incompetent reign as tory leader was one of the most remarkably inept ever seen. Every reason to give him such a sensitive area to embark on massive reforms. As they shall see soon enough. His staggering "I can live on £53 a week" (what were your MPs expenses again IDS?) is but a taste of what is to come.
What you originally said was that global warming had flatlined since 1998.
True i did and i'll do it again for polemic reasons but i'll happily compromise halfway on the hoaxers admitting on the telly box that land temperatures flat-lined 15, or even 10 if they insist, years ago.
I get the distinct impression that most PBers have absolutely no idea what its like to eat/heat or be tempted to shoplift or to go to bed fully clothed. One or two have tried to blame owning a pet for it FFS.
And yet I can recall no Labourites who EVER supported the views of two *PB Tories* who fessed up to living this miserable existence.
What an indictment.
Oh, did I vote Labour a few times and regret it now - yes a great deal. And all you can do is chortle like 9yrs olds. Pathetic.
@Sunil. "Um, this is Liam "There Is No Money Left" Byrne we're talking about, right?"
Yes surprising isn't it. The Tories successfully painted a picture of an incompetent but he's far from it. He seems to be leading the onslaught on IDS's social security changes and he's doing remarkably well. He even got IDS to claim he could live off £43 a week. The clown!
@Plato. "I get the distinct impression that most PBers have absolutely no idea what its like to eat/heat or be tempted to shoplift or to go to bed fully clothed."
Wouldn't the Tory answer be to get on your bike and find a job?
"I get the distinct impression that most PBers have absolutely no idea what its like to eat/heat or be tempted to shoplift or to go to bed fully clothed."
I think you're probably right, Plato. This forum is, after all, dominated by privileged people. Voting Tory isn't a luxury all of us can afford.
There is not a snowflake's chance in hell that a future Miliband government will reverse anything significant of IDS' welfare reforms. They know they are right and necessary, are grateful that Osborne and IDS are taking the flak for taking the decisions which Labour disgracefully flunked, and are shamelessly shroud-waving to make good government as difficult as possible.
Sound like you need to invest in someone doing a thermal image check of your house. Perhaps you need to look at some form of insulation to flooring and underfloor heating, insulation of walls etc. With some older houses, it can cost tens of thousands to make them anywhere near efficient in retaining heat.
"There is not a snowflake's chance in hell that a future Miliband government will reverse anything significant of IDS' welfare reforms. They know they are right and necessary"
The fact that Labour will yet again follow a right-wing path once elected has nothing whatever to do with believing that such a path is "right and necessary".
I get the distinct impression that most PBers have absolutely no idea what its like to eat/heat or be tempted to shoplift or to go to bed fully clothed. One or two have tried to blame owning a pet for it FFS.
You will continue to look ridiculous on this issue until you accept that you would better be able to pay for food and fuel if you did not voluntarily choose to keep vermin. If a JSA claimant in Peckham attempted to maintain a pack of pit bull terriers rather than feed his/her children, I doubt the case of the parent (as opposed to the children) would evince much sympathy on here. It is your entirely free choice to spend money on luxuries rather than essentials. It is an indictment of no one if the sane people on here continue to point this out to you.
Belief in the euro = Belief in manmade global warming.
Both are replacements for God in the human mind, hence their inability to yield to evidence or logic.
Discuss.
They're very different situations. We have to distinguish between the experts (be they economists or scientists) and the politicians. In the case of the Euro, the economists were always split, and have now turned decidedly negative, while the politicians carry on believing. In the case of manmade global warming, the scientists continue to come down strongly on one side. I'm also pretty sure that if my test, twenty years of flatness on the five year rolling average, happened, that the scientific profession would become rather split on the issue.
He even got IDS to claim he could live off £43 a week. The clown!
Nowt to do with Byrne :
When asked if he could live on £53 a week, in response to a question posed by a working benefits claimant, Mr Duncan Smith said: "If I had to I would."
Perhaps, Roger, you could explain why it was perfectly ok for Labour to withdraw the "spare room subsidy" from private sector tenants in 2008, but now when the coalition does the same to social housing tenants 5 years later it is the fount of all evil?
Just watching The One Show and there is a feature on a scheme called growing old together in Liverpool, where kids hang out with pensioners, its really sweet and heartwarming
"There is not a snowflake's chance in hell that a future Miliband government will reverse anything significant of IDS' welfare reforms. They know they are right and necessary"
The fact that Labour will yet again follow a right-wing path once elected has nothing whatever to do with believing that such a path is "right and necessary".
Will Scotland pursue a similar left-wing path to the one Ireland took during its first half century of independence?
The fact that Labour will yet again follow a right-wing path once elected has nothing whatever to do with believing that such a path is "right and necessary".
Blair would have said "I only know what I believe" or some other nonsense to justify it like he did for Iraq. Didn't make Iraq right or necessary but the tories were still astonishingly easily persuaded to support him over that too.
Here we go with another classic: the reason Antarctic sea ice has expanded so much in the last 25 years (which was denied until recently) is that it's getting warmer. Riiiiiiiiiight. If it wasn't from the Beeb I'd assume it was an April Fool's but some people actually believe this stuff, and are getting paid by taxpayers to fund it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21991487
And by the way, March was officially the coldest for 121 years, not since 1962. The MetO brought out the 2.7C CET figure this morning.
The data is out there. It doesn't fit the paradigm. But it is now unignorable.
And Australia, which is even bigger, has just experienced its hottest summer since records began. Right now, the southern hemisphere seems to be getting hammered much more than the northern:
The Tories most fearful of defeat for their party in 2015 are those most likely to bring it about. They are the source of the pathological indiscipline that undermines Mr Cameron in full view of the public. They are the ones insisting that a government more radical in many ways than Margaret Thatcher’s moves even further to the right. All the while the fundamentals that determine elections do not justify anything like this kind of panic. How bizarre that the Conservatives, of all people, have forgotten how to keep calm and carry on.
I have the most comprehensive insulation going - I can't use my electric underfloor heating [all my groundfloor] as its too expensive, can't run my oil boiler as its too expensive for central heating, so I've 2 open fire places and a wood burner that I ration to stop pipes from freezing.
When hearing the boiler click on in the middle of the night to stop pipes freezing is one's yardstick for a cold night - you know what it means and scared of running out of oil.
Those on PB who presume to know better than someone who's living it day in day out are a wee bit patronising from their armchairs to say the least.
I get the distinct impression that most PBers have absolutely no idea what its like to eat/heat or be tempted to shoplift or to go to bed fully clothed.
True, but a breadline existence is a chastening experience.
and with Ed Milliband looking a strong cert to win the next GE, the money tree will unfortunately fail and many more people will endure that life in 2016+
Fair enough. However it is noticeable that both theologies - the euro, AGW - are particularly virulent amongst the kind of people - liberal-left, middle class, educated, European (of course) - who have found themselves exiled from religious faith (for whatever reasons) and now have a God module in their brains which desperately needs filling.
Given that man is born to believe, these people will consequently believe in anything: from a single currency to animal rights to an apocalyptic eco-vision - just as long as it forms and shapes their lives in a way that God is meant to do, in mentally healthy people.
Marxism did the same for a previous generation.
Not necessarily. I see myself as "theo-sceptic", would replace the Euro with the Pound and have bothered to notice it's been very cold out lately!
@JamesKelly - Reality is reality (Darling ran out of money to pay salaries and other current costs at the end of the third week in every month, and only a complete loon would think that sustainable), but my point was more about Labour's hypocrisy and the naivety of its supporters.
Edit: Still, I'm pleased to see you say that an independent Scotland would follow the Nordic path of sound public finances, running surpluses in the good times, and investing oil revenues rather than wasting them on welfare. Excellent stuff.
Labour Leaders that Kinnock actively supported to become Leader. Anyone see the trend?
Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband.
The first 3 lost every GE as Leader. Maybe Kinnock will be 4th time lucky at the next GE? My gut feel is that he will but maybe just maybe history will repeat itself? Kinnock was relatively quiet in the election of John Smith and Tony Blair but for most of Blair's time as Leader Kinnock was not a loyal supporter.
Labour – its front bench and back rooms alike – is now led by people who spent a decade believing that Tony Blair was a problem and Gordon Brown was the answer.
Reality is reality (Darling ran out of money to pay salaries and other current costs at the end of the third week in every month, and only a complete loon would think that sustainable), but my point was more about Labour's hypocrisy and the naivety of its supporters.
Since Mr AAA Osbrowne pledged to match labour's spending plans it's not just the hypcorisy and naivety of labour's supporters you are highlighting,
who have found themselves exiled from religious faith (for whatever reasons) and now have a God module in their brains which desperately needs filling.
Tis why it takes a bit of polemic to get the initial wedge in. It's more voodoo than politics.
TCPoliticalBetting - what a peculiar post. Gordon Brown was elected unopposed, and it would have been a bit hard for Kinnock not to support his own candidacy.
Kinnock offered a degree of support to Bryan Gould in 1992.
France and Sweden are not - perhaps surprisingly to you - Third World countries.
Quite so. In recent years they accepted reality and didn't run humongous deficits like Brown. If only the UK left was as responsible as the Nordic governments we'd be in a much better position. Even Hollande is trying the get the French deficit (already much lower than ours) down below 3% this year, even if he is on course to miss that target.
I suspect, but can't prove, that when humans look back in a hundred years at the climate change flap they will laugh their proverbials off. The idea that humans even belting out C02 will have an impact on climate is tremendously anthropocentric. C02 makes up about 0.38% of the atmosphere. The Economist article is also hilarious for what it doesn't show e.g. that the greatest rise in C02 emissions corresponded to the massive post WWII cool down. I mean, seriously you can't make some of this stuff up.
From the moment I read the full IPCC report on the day of its release I knew it was a crock of shit, and began to become a sceptic (I'd been a believer until then). Crap pseudo-science pedalled around to keep people in funded posts.
A growing body of opinion is recognising that other sources of climatic impact are much more important than C02, not least that bloody great yellow thing which we occasionally see in the sky.
Comments
O'Leary is leading racehorse owner and sponsors the Ryanair Chase, a championship event at the Cheltenham Festival. It is entirely appropriate that he should make such a gift and this will be well received.
He is a bit of a character and generally divides opinion, but not on this of course.
The news on JT McNamara isn't all bad. He does not have brain damage, as was once feared. Even the paralysis may respond in due course. It is early days, and The Injured Jockeys Fund does great work in supporting such cases. He will receive the very best medical care, with or without O'Leary's welcome contribution.
Incidentally, if anybody is looking for a home for a percentage of their ill-gotten gains from betting, on politics or anything else, I can strongly recommend the IJF. It is a very well run charity.
When Chinese windmill and solar panel makers are declared bankcrupt and follow a very long line of other profiteers - the writing is on the wall.
That some are still claiming or redrawing the AGW argument as WoteverTheWeather It's All Evidence is just not credible. It was too warm, now its too cold - and its all evidence for their dubious at best claims that didn't bear the slightest scrutiny, but used bent/industry/political agenda to promote their claims.
I was drawn into the whole warming schitck when I wore a t-shirt in January a few years ago and my daffodils were up in Feb- and then things changed as I read the arguments and made up my own mind. That some are religiously clinging to it strikes me as perverse on so many levels.
If you decided to reduce your expenditure on the upkeep of vermin of an imported invasive species which massacres indigenous British wildlife, you might have more money to heat your home. It's a question of priorities.
Mild winter? Proof of global warming.
Cold winter?
Weather is not climate, and anyway global warming makes winters colder.
Still, at least lord Stern was handsomely rewarded for his "scientific" inquiry. We could have just saved ourselves the cost and just printed out what had been decided beforehand.
That Al Gore has a house and bank balance so big it can be seen from space says it all :^ )
Oi, my cat is British. He was born here and so is a British as you or anyone else. As for calling him, "Vermin" that just a typical slur spread by a certain type of extreme-right wing loon for whom everyone whose ancestry doesn't match what they like to pretend is their own. Specieists the lot of them and I am amazed they are given space in which to try and propagate their disgusting views. No wonder HMG said blogs should be brought under the same laws as the press when such vile nonsense is thrown around in their comments sections.
Companies go bust all the time, even when trading conditions are absolutely perfect. if they have bad managements, bad products or are over-leveraged, they will be vulnerable - especially when competition is intense. And competition is often at its most intense when myriad operators see opportunities in the same market.
I appreciate much of your post is ironic. However, no sensible person would dissent from the proposition that Japanese Knotweed is an imported invasive species which massacres indigenous British wildlife, and there is no difference in principle between the position of a cat and the position of fallopia japonica.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3098/free_speech_under_threat_as_advertising_company_agrees_to_remove_ukip_poster
Thousands of people a year die because of hypothermia in the UK - we used to see public info films about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBO6zRVI6p0
I assume you're not keen on this. The cold is killing UK citizens now and reducing people like me to eat or heat.
At what point does ideology meet reality today in this debate?
Of course there is. Don't be an ass.
When was the last time we had a heatwave that killed as many because of heat than cold?
Never springs to mind. As I said - when does ideology meet reality here? Clearly not.
Stick to your point of view, its your prerogative - just don't expect me to die of cold to support yours
There is nothing in that post that is incorrect.
I also refer you to my post at 3:23. You seem to be really struggling with this.
I wonder if they would be upset (or happy) if it was in a Tory area?
You plainly have not been reduced to either heating your home or eating. You have made a choice to spend a large amount of money on discretionary luxuries. It is nobody's fault but your own if the result of that decision is that you have had to cut back on necessities.
"Paolo Di Canio: Sunderland manager hurt by fascist claims"
The problem for Sunderland is that this will now act as a magnet for all the football nutters who want to attach themselves to the fascist cause. I understand there was an impromptu EDL march through Sunderland this morning. It's not really Di Canio's fault-it's the archivists at the news organization who put the story about-but it's bad news for football and Sunderland
Why should we be surprised? Maybe it's simply time to quote Niemoller's immortal statement.
Really?
Well - really. Your psychic abilities are cosmic = are you a God? One would think so given your views on the lives and views of others.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/posts/Global-warming-The-missing-energy
It's just no-one informed the public.
Pointing out that warmist weather predictions from a few years back are almost diametrically opposite of the reality now is mostly for fun.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html
I'm also getting confused over your view. Are you advocating for allowing more emissions as we want more global warming, or are you saying emissions do not affect global warming? It's like someone arguing "I never borrowed your car, so I can't have crashed it, and anyway, it was in perfect condition when I gave it back to you."
"I don't have the exact numbers to hand"
Well Google the numbers and then we can debate your point that more people died in the UK from the heat than from the cold in say the last 10 yrs as a yardstick - or in fact any period you'd choose.
I look forward to seeing reliably sourced figures here that prove me wrong.
EDIT blogs from pro-AGW sites are obviously out of scope - such as RealClimate etc - let's stick to ones officially sanctioned by gov sites et al.
You appear to have descended into the realm of personal insults. This might put off new posters.
You cannot plausibly maintain that you would not have more income (which could be spent on heating or eating) if you disposed of the vermin you keep. Or is that indeed your position?
Otherwise, notwithstanding speculation as to my possible deity, your post is dross.
20,000 died in Europe during the heatwave of 2003.
What Plato seems to be struggling with is the idea that global warming is by its very nature not a uniquely British phenomonen.
'Wonder if David Millipede would have resigned had Di Canio expressed admiration for Stalin. Probably not, as Millipede pere had no issue with Uncle Joe.'
Sunderland fans must be gutted to lose a hanger-on like Millipede,he must have made an enormous contribution.
I have to go out so I'll be brief. Rats and Mice. Cats were domesticated, and much imported to the UK probably by the Romans, because between them and us is/was a symbiotic relationship - each provided something that the pother needed to thrive. Espcially in rural areas, cats still perform the same function today, of course some of them are just pets.
If you can demonstrate the same relationship between your plant and the English, I'll grant you have a point. Otherwise I'll just assume you don't like cats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jO1EOhGkY0
I'll be happy when that is incorporated into the official version of reality and then we can move on from there.
The heat/eat issue seems to be a recurring one. Why not downsize? Rent a room out? (I do the latter for a span when I need to save some extra cash towards something...).
I also don't think global warming is going to be a good strategy to reducing cold-related deaths. If the current predicted temperature rise is correct, for instance, our best estimates suggest a 2% fall in cold-related deaths by 2050:
http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317136677945
A far more effective method - and with much less harm - would be to implement a mass retrofit program for insulating low income housing. We could fund it via a tax on emissions.
EDIT: It's here: http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21574461-climate-may-be-heating-up-less-response-greenhouse-gas-emissions
I still don't accept fifteen years. Their own graph shows that 1998 was just a freak year, and that the flatness actually began in about 2003.
It's also ridiculous to suggest this is central to my belief system, let alone the entirety of it.
Views appreciated.
PS If you've missed Grimm so far - its superb cop drama with trolls and well worth watching.
PPS I have to disagree with SeanT re WalkingDead - the latter series are crap.
The Economist, perhaps the most level-headed of journals, now admits - in this week's edition - that temperatures have flatlined for fifteen years, and that this presents real problems for warmists. It says "climate is much more complex than we assumed".
Socrates is, by his own measure, five years away from having to abandon his entire belief system.
Pretending that the present data is not problematic for warmists is insane. Would have expected better of you.
The Akonomist changing tack? They were in the warmist camp last time I checked. Will they apologise to thier readers?
But a cold house is a cold house - I have insulation in my roof, double glazing et al but if I can't heat even my bedroom beyond 8C - what does that say?
Putting a jumper on a corpse doesn't cure hypothermia.
PS I think this dose of reality is required here. I go to bed with my laptop to listen to the radio and twitter - and snuggle up with the charger transformer in my hands as it keeps me warm.
When anyone wants to lecture me on the subject of heating - try doing this and then tell me what you do..
"My argument was with MrJones's interpretation of the BBC blog and the piece that it linked to."
I interpret that he's saying land temperature flat-lined in 1998 is because he's saying land temperatures flat-lined in 1998.
That he's assuming global warming exists and therefore there *must* be some missing energy somewhere is a separate thing.
This is a government that couldn't even tax a pasty competently embarking on truly gigantic reforms across several vital and sensitive areas for the public. Reforms that even Blair couldn't get through. Though he did want to which is why Cammie wants to.
There are clear warnings already from the likes of citizens advice and other consumer advocate/disabled groups that this is likely to be another omnishambles. But who cares about that when you have blind faith in ideology? Or at least blind faith in the pretend ideology the incompetent fops stole from Blair.
Have you booked your tickets to fly over to Oakland for the second International Cat Video Festival?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/30/oakland_international_cat_festival/
The article comes with the obligatory picture of furries.
Perhaps we should send Tim, and get him to stare at cat videos 24/7, with matchsticks propping his eyelids open (ala Clockwork Orange)
... Have just realised it may be a Lipra Loof...
Agree with the first paragraph, and most of the second. Individuals ought to bear the costs of the decisions they take, under most circumstances. What is farcical is people complaining about the inevitable consequences of their own free choices, especially when those same people claim that they ought to have a right to dictate to welfare claimants what they can spend benefits on.
The principle is simple: if I spend a large amount of my income on crack (or the upkeep of vermin) rather than heating, which I ought to be entitled to do, then I ought not to expect sympathy.
"It's hard for me to judge someone's situation. But it sounds like your house is highly unusual."
You mean you have no evidence to contradict my actual experience. And therefore mine is an anomaly and therefore has no impact on your intellectual position.
Really? Excuse me for thinking you're talking through your snug hat.
Agreed. "East Anglia - better as land or sea?" is a question that just hasn't been explored in enough depth yet.
It's also high time we had a good think about whether a global thermonuclear war would be all bad.
Even with this increase the maximum extent was still the 6th lowest ever recorded by satillite (which of course means a relatively short time frame).
Does this mean a change in direction or is the trend towards an ice free north pole still continuing? It will take several more years like this one to change the trend. First year ice will melt much more quickly as it is typically thinner. I think we are still heading to an ice free north pole within a relatively short period of time.
What is telling is that the projections from 10 years plus ago continuously have to be revisited reducing the extent of the projected change. Whilst the sun may well have played a major part in this I suspect that scientists have underestimated the compensatory capabilities of this wonderful rock that we are on.
The one thing that is crystal clear in this messy area is that our politicians have been embarrassingly parochial in their viewpoint. Reducing our carbon output by exporting manufacturing to China, for example, was not only very bad economics but incredibly stupid environmentalism because their energy is much dirtier than ours.
Unfortunately the current legislation seems to carry on this lunacy by making energy intensive manufacturing more difficult in this country. If we stopped preening as a nation and starting thinking globally I think we would have a set of policies that would have much greater support than the current mess.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/globalwarming/9919121/Look-at-the-graph-to-see-the-evidence-of-global-warming.html
How soon they forgot that this is the 'quiet man' who's short incompetent reign as tory leader was one of the most remarkably inept ever seen. Every reason to give him such a sensitive area to embark on massive reforms. As they shall see soon enough. His staggering "I can live on £53 a week" (what were your MPs expenses again IDS?) is but a taste of what is to come.
All progress.
And yet I can recall no Labourites who EVER supported the views of two *PB Tories* who fessed up to living this miserable existence.
What an indictment.
Oh, did I vote Labour a few times and regret it now - yes a great deal. And all you can do is chortle like 9yrs olds. Pathetic.
Yes surprising isn't it. The Tories successfully painted a picture of an incompetent but he's far from it. He seems to be leading the onslaught on IDS's social security changes and he's doing remarkably well. He even got IDS to claim he could live off £43 a week. The clown!
Wouldn't the Tory answer be to get on your bike and find a job?
I think you're probably right, Plato. This forum is, after all, dominated by privileged people. Voting Tory isn't a luxury all of us can afford.
Sound like you need to invest in someone doing a thermal image check of your house. Perhaps you need to look at some form of insulation to flooring and underfloor heating, insulation of walls etc. With some older houses, it can cost tens of thousands to make them anywhere near efficient in retaining heat.
The fact that Labour will yet again follow a right-wing path once elected has nothing whatever to do with believing that such a path is "right and necessary".
When asked if he could live on £53 a week, in response to a question posed by a working benefits claimant, Mr Duncan Smith said: "If I had to I would."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21991953
Perhaps, Roger, you could explain why it was perfectly ok for Labour to withdraw the "spare room subsidy" from private sector tenants in 2008, but now when the coalition does the same to social housing tenants 5 years later it is the fount of all evil?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21991487
And by the way, March was officially the coldest for 121 years, not since 1962. The MetO brought out the 2.7C CET figure this morning.
Ah, you're a wag, Socrates. No, on the whole we'll be following the social democratic Nordic path.
China has just experienced its coldest winter in 40 years. China is, um, quite a big country.
http://www.ouramazingplanet.com/3965-china-s-extreme-cold-snaps-records.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/weather/2013/03/201332193557358537.html
The data is out there. It doesn't fit the paradigm. But it is now unignorable.
And Australia, which is even bigger, has just experienced its hottest summer since records began. Right now, the southern hemisphere seems to be getting hammered much more than the northern:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/01/australia-record-breaking-hottest-summer
. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/503c3804-96da-11e2-a77c-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2PEbcwlRt
The Tories most fearful of defeat for their party in 2015 are those most likely to bring it about. They are the source of the pathological indiscipline that undermines Mr Cameron in full view of the public. They are the ones insisting that a government more radical in many ways than Margaret Thatcher’s moves even further to the right. All the while the fundamentals that determine elections do not justify anything like this kind of panic. How bizarre that the Conservatives, of all people, have forgotten how to keep calm and carry on.
I have the most comprehensive insulation going - I can't use my electric underfloor heating [all my groundfloor] as its too expensive, can't run my oil boiler as its too expensive for central heating, so I've 2 open fire places and a wood burner that I ration to stop pipes from freezing.
When hearing the boiler click on in the middle of the night to stop pipes freezing is one's yardstick for a cold night - you know what it means and scared of running out of oil.
Those on PB who presume to know better than someone who's living it day in day out are a wee bit patronising from their armchairs to say the least.
and with Ed Milliband looking a strong cert to win the next GE, the money tree will unfortunately fail and many more people will endure that life in 2016+
I must agree once again, Plato. I now feel confident you'll be on my side in attacking the "scrounger" rhetoric in respect of benefit claimants.
Edit: Still, I'm pleased to see you say that an independent Scotland would follow the Nordic path of sound public finances, running surpluses in the good times, and investing oil revenues rather than wasting them on welfare. Excellent stuff.
Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock, Gordon Brown, Ed Milliband.
The first 3 lost every GE as Leader. Maybe Kinnock will be 4th time lucky at the next GE? My gut feel is that he will but maybe just maybe history will repeat itself? Kinnock was relatively quiet in the election of John Smith and Tony Blair but for most of Blair's time as Leader Kinnock was not a loyal supporter.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/503c3804-96da-11e2-a77c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2PEcrA3pX
Agreed. Reality is distinct from Thatcherism, which is why France and Sweden are not - perhaps surprisingly to you - Third World countries.
Kinnock offered a degree of support to Bryan Gould in 1992.
From the moment I read the full IPCC report on the day of its release I knew it was a crock of shit, and began to become a sceptic (I'd been a believer until then). Crap pseudo-science pedalled around to keep people in funded posts.
A growing body of opinion is recognising that other sources of climatic impact are much more important than C02, not least that bloody great yellow thing which we occasionally see in the sky.
Living one's life via Google searches is an end in itself for some - the rest of us only experience it as *anecdotes*.