The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
Leave should simply invent vaguely plausible figures, and repeat them endlessly. That seems to be how it works with Remain.
Problem with that is that the LSE and the IFS generally endorse the Treasury report. The leave campaign have been saying that the trend in the polls is with them but ORB report tonight should concern leave greatly. Headline figure 52 remain 43 leave but it is the anaylsis that should be read
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
Poor old pasty face. Osborne's threats to remove patronage won't work on the membership. They can read the runes showing his unpopularity across the electorate as a whole, and are unlikely to vote in an obvious loser.
I might add that I am a bit drunk. We had lots of nice wine.
Question to all - is it worse for for someone to obsess about political minutiae when drunk or sober? As a teetotaler I suspect the latter for the lack of excuse.
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
I'm hoping he becomes leader actually... It will make his eventual fall and humiliation all the more enjoyable if we get to see him totally destroyed (like Brown was) from Downing St.
Because of what Cameron and Osborne have done the Tories will be out of power for a very long time when Osborne is eventually thrown out by the electorate, IMO.
This site is teetering, fatally, on the farcical. It's not the fact that you are constantly shilling for REMAIN - that's annoying but fair, OGH is a europhile, a Lib Dem, his deputies and writers ostly feel the same - but the endless drivel you spout is simply incorrect.
If LEAVE was really as hopeless and helpless as you endlessly claim, then REMAIN would now be out of sight in the polling. But it's MOE Dead Heat.
Perhaps, as a service to political bettors, you might like to run a few threads discussing why that is the case, rather than this exercise in relentless wishful thinking.
I think the whole boring EUref campaign showcases this site's greatest strength: it's off-topic conversations.
Very much like the test match commentators on the radio when it starts raining - they go from business to entertaining conversation without missing a beat.
Off-topic #1: Bought the Star Wars: The Force Awakens DVD today - maybe will get the BluRay in due course Watching "Unknown" on Film4 at the mo., so prob. will watch it straight afterwards,
Off-topic #2: On Sunday, visited Horley station near Gatwick, thereby visiting the last of the stations on the Gatwick line and the Hertford East line that Boris added to the London Oystercard map in 2015/16. I have re-achieved the feat of visiting every station marked on aforementioned map! http://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/07/09/GATWICKtubemapHIRES.jpg
Off-topic #3: Did the Ely to King's Lynn railway branch today, also visiting Ely station in the process (had previously visited Ely by car in 2011).
Personally I'd be quite happy living in a federal European super-state. Suspect that, with sufficient practice/training/indoctrination, I could develop a similar level of satisfaction in my Europanness as I do currently in my Britishness. SeanT has written some fabulous paeans to European civilisation in the past. Something along those lines seems feasible as a source of "national" pride. The kicker is likely to be the disparity between the great peaks European culture has reached, and the bureaucratic, ossified, crisis-ridden nightmare that a European polity is likely to represent. Like the early history of the United States, the travails of the Eurozone indicate the perils of half-arsed integration.
For me, the strongest reason for voting Leave is that the British public don't really want to be in a federal Europe. Integration is largely taking place by a "ratchet effect" - the tide only goes one way, and you can end up more closely bound than either intended or desired. And there are strong economic and political forces which are going to pull the "core" EU countries closer together, particularly in the Eurozone. Sure, Britain might have some opt-outs, but the logic inherent in the "we must stay in the EU, because we can't influence from the sidelines" applies just as well to our membership of the core. When the EU is dominated almost completely by the Eurozone, especially as more and more accession countries join the single currency, Britain is going to be more and more peripheral unless it starts "doing Europe properly", with many opt-outs becoming less politically tenable unless semi-isolation within Europe is accepted.
Associate membership for the UK seems to me a better-fitting destination, in terms of popular will and perhaps even national character, than total integration. But where is the course for that?
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
Associate membership for the UK seems to me a better-fitting destination, in terms of popular will and perhaps even national character, than total integration. But where is the course for that?
Indeed so. If I thought it possible, genuinely possible, I'd still be a Remainer.
The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
Immigration will not work as an issue if the EEA/EFTA route is favoured.
And ultimately that will become apparent. The Treasury report is clever in the sense it lays out the 3 different deals and this will set the agenda for leave to have to reveal which option they prefer or if none, then explain how they control immigration. The calculations and figures in the report are not as important as setting the agenda
The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
Immigration will not work as an issue if the EEA/EFTA route is favoured.
You are right - but hardly anyone understands that, do they?
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive
As an alumnus of UoL I truly want Leicester to win, but it was a dive - classic striker move of stepping in front of a defender hoping for contact and then to go down, but throwing himself down theatrically too early.
The contempt this government holds for its people is staggering and quite shocking. The lies from Osborne and associated hangers on are so obvious and so gross that I now feel a deep sense of shame. I am a Conservative voter but I have never disliked a politician as much as I now do Osborne. What a reptilian creep.
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
I desperately want Leicester to win and I think Vardy deserves POTY but that was one of the most obvious dives I have seen in a long time.
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
Poor old pasty face. Osborne's threats to remove patronage won't work on the membership. They can read the runes showing his unpopularity across the electorate as a whole, and are unlikely to vote in an obvious loser.
George is an enigma, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. After the "omnishambles" budget PB was writing his political obituairy, but 3 years later he was widely credited as the annointed matermind of the election. Political tides change sometimes with startling rapidity.
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
Don't Leicester have Man U and Chelsea away in their last four games. Squeaky bum time maybe
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
Same here, as a fellow Hammers fan - and to think Leicester did so poorly last season!
West Ham fans, Brexiters and imbued with a sense of fair play and decency.
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
I desperately want Leicester to win and I think Vardy deserves POTY but that was one of the most obvious dives I have seen in a long time.
Clearly you have never watched Rahim Stirling play!
There was far more adverse contact on Vardy than there was on Reid when he dived for the penalty at the other end.
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
Don't Leicester have Man U and Chelsea away in their last four games. Squeaky bum time maybe
Spurs also play Chelsea away, and we have a five point advantage.
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
Poor old pasty face. Osborne's threats to remove patronage won't work on the membership. They can read the runes showing his unpopularity across the electorate as a whole, and are unlikely to vote in an obvious loser.
George is an enigma, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. After the "omnishambles" budget PB was writing his political obituairy, but 3 years later he was widely credited as the annointed matermind of the election. Political tides change sometimes with startling rapidity.
This time he is beyond redemption because he is so blatantly seeking to shaft so many in his party. If its what he thinks, fair enough, but his prospects are zero.
The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
I don't see European immigration as the force it once would have been in this debate. Perhaps we've gotten used to having these foreigners in our midst. Even the Poles! I know plenty of Brits who have got romantically involved with them, never mind wanting to 'send 'em back'. Of course, Islamic terrorists are a different matter, but for their presence here we have to blame the one club of nations the Leavers are actually keen on - the British Empire.
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
Poor old pasty face. Osborne's threats to remove patronage won't work on the membership. They can read the runes showing his unpopularity across the electorate as a whole, and are unlikely to vote in an obvious loser.
George is an enigma, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. After the "omnishambles" budget PB was writing his political obituairy, but 3 years later he was widely credited as the annointed matermind of the election. Political tides change sometimes with startling rapidity.
Dr Fox I'm beginning to think that you're the patron saint of lost causes.
You'll be writing a thread saying Tim Fallon (sic) can be the next PM, next.
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
The list against Brexit is overwhelming and it is all feeding into the economy. Notice the Mail and Sun are playing the immigration game but all this will do is invite more questions to leave on how they will control immigration
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
The list against Brexit is overwhelming and it is all feeding into the economy. Notice the Mail and Sun are playing the immigration game but all this will do is invite more questions to leave on how they will control immigration
So the tories ten's of thousands was a complete lie ?
@BBCNewsnight: "The Swiss had to base their major banks in London because they couldn't get a deal with the EU." #newsnight #EUref https://t.co/USbc4msB0S
I'm thinking of doing a Labour defence list in terms of wards in the local elections, (excluding areas where boundary changes have taken place since 2012).
As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
And may be without Vardy for several games now.
Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
It wasn't a dive, and the fightback with 10 men to equalise showed that Leicester are no bottlers.
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
Don't Leicester have Man U and Chelsea away in their last four games. Squeaky bum time maybe
Spurs also play Chelsea away, and we have a five point advantage.
Spurs were very good tonight and the way Chelsea are playing they should win. So should Leicester but I will never forget Fergie's first win that had us all nervous wrecks. The first one is the hardest but good luck to Leicester
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
Somehow, I doubt Siemens will wish to walk away from their existing market in the UK and neither would any other European business. Deals will be struck.
Look at those numbers - Imagine if LEAVE told people that actually they'd quite like EEA and free movement! Sure way to lose. So it won't happen. If LEAVE wins then the new Conservative leader will try to negotiate an EEA deal that gives Farage and Ukip a new cause to rally around (real sovereignty, real border control, real Brexit) and demoralises the political elite.
@BBCNewsnight: "The Swiss had to base their major banks in London because they couldn't get a deal with the EU." #newsnight #EUref https://t.co/USbc4msB0S
When/if George becomes leader (and get's destroyed as he inevitably will) will you be spinning (and re-tweeting) like Comincal Ali?
FPT @Casino_Royale You should go and if the conversation gets uncomfortable you can take the Barbara Castle line - "If the country votes for Brexit the country will need people like you to save it from the kippers." You might even get some of them to see the positive side.
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
The list against Brexit is overwhelming and it is all feeding into the economy. Notice the Mail and Sun are playing the immigration game but all this will do is invite more questions to leave on how they will control immigration
So the tories ten's of thousands was a complete lie ?
It was not a lie but proved impossible to achieve. I do believe David Cameron should have abandoned the idea some time ago.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is.
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.
How we'll laugh!
Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
Poor old pasty face. Osborne's threats to remove patronage won't work on the membership. They can read the runes showing his unpopularity across the electorate as a whole, and are unlikely to vote in an obvious loser.
George is an enigma, and I wouldn't write him off just yet. After the "omnishambles" budget PB was writing his political obituairy, but 3 years later he was widely credited as the annointed matermind of the election. Political tides change sometimes with startling rapidity.
Dr Fox I'm beginning to think that you're the patron saint of lost causes.
You'll be writing a thread saying Tim Fallon (sic) can be the next PM, next.
Just wary of writing anyone off. George has adeptly pulled rabbits out of the hat before, and also shot himself in the foot. He could do either again.
If Remain win, and Cameron stays long enough for passions to die down a bit then he could be a contender, particularly if the economic figures pick up.
I have more respect for the Blues who have picked a side and actively gone out campaigning for it than I do for those who have decided to lie low until they know which way the wind is blowing.
@BBCNewsnight: "The Swiss had to base their major banks in London because they couldn't get a deal with the EU." #newsnight #EUref https://t.co/USbc4msB0S
When/if George becomes leader (and get's destroyed as he inevitably will) will you be spinning (and re-tweeting) like Comincal Ali?
Cameron will be gone. Osborne will be the fall guy. Watch Theresa - notionally supports REMAIN but says nothing. She is the unity candidate. Osborne is finished.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
I agree but the way it was put over that each family will be £4,300 worse off by 2030 is controversial
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A lie, as in 'leaving the EU could lead to Calais-style migrant camps being established in parts of the UK'?
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Look at those numbers - Imagine if LEAVE told people that actually they'd quite like EEA and free movement! Sure way to lose. So it won't happen. If LEAVE wins then the new Conservative leader will try to negotiate an EEA deal that gives Farage and Ukip a new cause to rally around (real sovereignty, real border control, real Brexit) and demoralises the political elite.
I agree. It is what makes an EEA/EFTA deal a nonstarter. The backlash against it from the bitter enders would be the final nail in the Tory coffin. Having lost the Cameroons they would then lose the BOOers.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Alan Titchmarsh?
I will confirm it is NOT Alan Titchmarsh, we are talking someone EVEN more famous.
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
The list against Brexit is overwhelming and it is all feeding into the economy. Notice the Mail and Sun are playing the immigration game but all this will do is invite more questions to leave on how they will control immigration
So the tories ten's of thousands was a complete lie ?
It was not a lie but proved impossible to achieve. I do believe David Cameron should have abandoned the idea some time ago.
You would living in North wales,I bet it's lovely - the new forecast of 3m more migrants,he won't get away with cut immigration lie again,hopefully he's gone by end of the year.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
The farmers receive 3 billion pa. Is that included in your net figure
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
I don't see European immigration as the force it once would have been in this debate. Perhaps we've gotten used to having these foreigners in our midst. Even the Poles! I know plenty of Brits who have got romantically involved with them, never mind wanting to 'send 'em back'. Of course, Islamic terrorists are a different matter, but for their presence here we have to blame the one club of nations the Leavers are actually keen on - the British Empire.
If we go Brexit and have to negotiate a trade deal with the EU , they will insist on free movement. Eastern Europe is making too much money out of it to give it up. Immigration would not be easier to control.
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
The list against Brexit is overwhelming and it is all feeding into the economy. Notice the Mail and Sun are playing the immigration game but all this will do is invite more questions to leave on how they will control immigration
So the tories ten's of thousands was a complete lie ?
It was not a lie but proved impossible to achieve. I do believe David Cameron should have abandoned the idea some time ago.
You would living in North wales,I bet it's lovely - the new forecast of 3m more migrants,he won't get away with cut immigration lie again,hopefully he's gone by end of the year.
I think David Cameron will be in Office at least until 2018, he will not be gone this year
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Alan Titchmarsh?
I will confirm it is NOT Alan Titchmarsh, we are talking someone EVEN more famous.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
The farmers receive 3 billion pa. Is that included in your net figure
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
The farmers receive 3 billion pa. Is that included in your net figure
Yes, the lion's share of EU spending in the UK.
Maybe that is why they have declared for remain tonight
@BBCNewsnight: "The Swiss had to base their major banks in London because they couldn't get a deal with the EU." #newsnight #EUref https://t.co/USbc4msB0S
When/if George becomes leader (and get's destroyed as he inevitably will) will you be spinning (and re-tweeting) like Comincal Ali?
Osborne is finished.
That's a shame... I wanted the opportunity to humiliate him being voting him out of office.
@BBCNewsnight: "The Swiss had to base their major banks in London because they couldn't get a deal with the EU." #newsnight #EUref https://t.co/USbc4msB0S
When/if George becomes leader (and get's destroyed as he inevitably will) will you be spinning (and re-tweeting) like Comincal Ali?
Cameron will be gone. Osborne will be the fall guy. Watch Theresa - notionally supports REMAIN but says nothing. She is the unity candidate. Osborne is finished.
That's a shame... I wanted the opportunity to humiliate him being voting him out of office.
Hammond is more likely than May if Osborne does not get it
The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?
What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
I don't see European immigration as the force it once would have been in this debate. Perhaps we've gotten used to having these foreigners in our midst. Even the Poles! I know plenty of Brits who have got romantically involved with them, never mind wanting to 'send 'em back'. Of course, Islamic terrorists are a different matter, but for their presence here we have to blame the one club of nations the Leavers are actually keen on - the British Empire.
If we go Brexit and have to negotiate a trade deal with the EU , they will insist on free movement. Eastern Europe is making too much money out of it to give it up. Immigration would not be easier to control.
Interestingly, the Treasury report today points out that the net migration figure is affected by outwards UK migration and policy decisions the UK takes to reduce immigration may result in retaliatory actions that reduce outwards emigration of UK citizens.
I hadn't thought of this before but we could easily end up reducing immigration to the UK but still have higher net levels of migration.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
I see the UK contribution to the EU for 2015 was £13 billion, and £4.5 billion was spent in the UK, so the net contribution would obviously be £8.5 billion.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Alan Titchmarsh?
I will confirm it is NOT Alan Titchmarsh, we are talking someone EVEN more famous.
And beyond that, my lips are zipped.
Jo Brand?
Michael Mcintyre?
The only one I can think of that's ultra famous, covers all generations is loved as an absolute national treasure while carrying a lot of sway is David Attenborough
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is.
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
No. Dividing the 2030 GDP number by the 2015 household number, and then pretending it is a household income number, is just a lie.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
The Leave side reasonably claim that the gross amount sent should be considered the real number as what we get back comes with strings attached and often requires further matched spending. So we should look at the gross amount. I agree with this
The trouble is that the gross amount is not the £19.2 Billion a year claimed which gives the £350 million a week. That number includes the rebate which never actually leaves the Treasury and absolutely should not be included in any claims about 'how much we send to Brussels'.
So Richard is quite right. The £350 million is a dishonest figure and it does Leave no credit to be using it. They are particularly daft because without the rebate the real number is £288 million a week and most people would still consider that a vast amount of money. If they used that number then Richard would have no grounds for complaint. As it is they are wasting a great attack line by trying to hype it up.
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is.
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
No. Dividing the 2030 GDP number by the 2015 household number, and then pretending it is a household income number, is just a lie.
Fair enough.
Now tell me, what is the £350 million a week figure?
How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is.
No, the £4,300 figure is a forecast, which is in the range of possible outcomes. The £350 million figure is just plain wrong (or, as the Leavers are so fond of saying, a 'lie').
No. Dividing the 2030 GDP number by the 2015 household number, and then pretending it is a household income number, is just a lie.
Fair enough.
Now tell me, what is the £350 million a week figure?
Both the number reported in the Pink Book, and a desperate attempt to change the subject.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
I see the UK contribution to the EU for 2015 was £13 billion, and £4.5 billion was spent in the UK, so the net contribution would obviously be £8.5 billion.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
On moneygoround.eu the figure works our as about £6 billion, or €117 percapita:
Of course if you do not allow the EU expenditure on farming, conservation regional development or universities that comes back then you get to a bigger figure. It does mean that that spending will have to be cut so the money is spent on our NHS. Don't be surprised if the farmers, regions and universities are unhappy at their drop in income and campaign for Remain
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
I see the UK contribution to the EU for 2015 was £13 billion, and £4.5 billion was spent in the UK, so the net contribution would obviously be £8.5 billion.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
On moneygoround.eu the figure works our as about £6 billion, or €117 percapita:
Of course if you do not allow the EU expenditure on farming, conservation regional development or universities that comes back then you get to a bigger figure. It does mean that that spending will have to be cut so the money is spent on our NHS. Don't be surprised if the farmers, regions and universities are unhappy at their drop in income and campaign for Remain
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Alan Titchmarsh?
I will confirm it is NOT Alan Titchmarsh, we are talking someone EVEN more famous.
And beyond that, my lips are zipped.
Jo Brand?
Michael Mcintyre?
The only one I can think of that's ultra famous, covers all generations is loved as an absolute national treasure while carrying a lot of sway is David Attenborough
Can't see him getting involved though.
No and his brother was the epitome of the social democrat luvvie.
Given all the dire consequences the EU will apparently visit on us if we Brexit, the payments to Brussels are basically a protection racket in the form of foreign aid.
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
I see the UK contribution to the EU for 2015 was £13 billion, and £4.5 billion was spent in the UK, so the net contribution would obviously be £8.5 billion.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
On moneygoround.eu the figure works our as about £6 billion, or €117 percapita:
Of course if you do not allow the EU expenditure on farming, conservation regional development or universities that comes back then you get to a bigger figure. It does mean that that spending will have to be cut so the money is spent on our NHS. Don't be surprised if the farmers, regions and universities are unhappy at their drop in income and campaign for Remain
Moneygoround.eu is wrong. Indeed the EU in general is a very poor place to go to try and find out how much we pay them. For example they always quote the UK contribution as being the basic amount we pay without taking into acocunt the VAT receipts we give them which accounts for an approx additional £2 billion a year net.
For a proper number you should always look at the Pink Book out in October.
For 2014 the net figure paid to the EU was around £9.6 billion. Gross after the rebate was around £15billion.
For 2015 the net figure is around £8.5 billion although that is currently an estimate. In addition I am not clear if it includes the additional £1.7 billion that Osborne paid in which case the net figure might be as much as £10.2 billion. We won't know the exact figure until October.
A net £10 bn given per annum to Brussels works out at £192 million per week.
Quite. so.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
I see the UK contribution to the EU for 2015 was £13 billion, and £4.5 billion was spent in the UK, so the net contribution would obviously be £8.5 billion.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
On moneygoround.eu the figure works our as about £6 billion, or €117 percapita:
Of course if you do not allow the EU expenditure on farming, conservation regional development or universities that comes back then you get to a bigger figure. It does mean that that spending will have to be cut so the money is spent on our NHS. Don't be surprised if the farmers, regions and universities are unhappy at their drop in income and campaign for Remain
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Is it Elton John ?
No, it's probably Daenerys Targaryen and a breathless dragon or two.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Is it Elton John ?
No, it's probably Daenerys Targaryen and a breathless dragon or two.
Before I retire to bed in a few minutes, I'd like to say that its a poor show that many on PB would like to see Great Britain disappear and subsumed in the amorphous mass of the EU.
No pride! No honour! No courage! Just sleazy self interest, which in the end will prove to be a delusion.
Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.
His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.
My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.
Is it Elton John ?
No, it's probably Daenerys Targaryen and a breathless dragon or two.
I know who it is *palm forehead*
Harry Potter.
Not surprising given that Peter Mandleson is Lord Voldemort. :-)
I am thinking more along the lines of George Osborne as Grima Wormtongue and Michael Gove as Eomer, driven from his father's hall by the lies of the advisor who is in secret league with Saruman (Jean-Claude Juncker).
Before I retire to bed in a few minutes, I'd like to say that its a poor show that many on PB would like to see Great Britain disappear and subsumed in the amorphous mass of the EU.
I don't see voting Remain as leading to that end but I may have miss read others comments. If we had better leaders then one day we might be running the show like Germany does now but that can never happen with the Conservatives in power simply because of their internal problems.
Before I retire to bed in a few minutes, I'd like to say that its a poor show that many on PB would like to see Great Britain disappear and subsumed in the amorphous mass of the EU.
No pride! No honour! No courage! Just sleazy self interest, which in the end will prove to be a delusion.
Straw man.
Which REMAINer has posted such nonsense?
If you won't engage your opponent in arguments don't be surprised when voters ignore you.
This site is teetering, fatally, on the farcical. It's not the fact that you are constantly shilling for REMAIN - that's annoying but fair, OGH is a europhile, a Lib Dem, his deputies and writers ostly feel the same - but the endless drivel you spout is simply incorrect.
If LEAVE was really as hopeless and helpless as you endlessly claim, then REMAIN would now be out of sight in the polling. But it's MOE Dead Heat.
BBC Breakfast numpties (Dan Walker & Louise Minchin) have both just said that yesterday George Osborne warned that Brexit would cost each family £4,300 every year.
Michael Gove will set out his vision today for why the UK should leave the EU. Speaking on the programme is Michael Gove, justice secretary and co-convenor on the Vote Leave Campaign Committee.
BBC Breakfast numpties (Dan Walker & Louise Minchin) have both just said that yesterday George Osborne warned that Brexit would cost each family £4,300 every year.
Can't edit that now; I'd got the impression from some of the comments on here that the figure wasn't an annual cost, but have just read a report that it was. Coffee will start working soon..
BBC Breakfast numpties (Dan Walker & Louise Minchin) have both just said that yesterday George Osborne warned that Brexit would cost each family £4,300 every year.
Can't edit that now; I'd got the impression from some of the comments on here that the figure wasn't an annual cost, but have just read a report that it was. Coffee will start working soon..
Comments
Good night
Because of what Cameron and Osborne have done the Tories will be out of power for a very long time when Osborne is eventually thrown out by the electorate, IMO.
Off-topic #2: On Sunday, visited Horley station near Gatwick, thereby visiting the last of the stations on the Gatwick line and the Hertford East line that Boris added to the London Oystercard map in 2015/16. I have re-achieved the feat of visiting every station marked on aforementioned map!
http://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/07/09/GATWICKtubemapHIRES.jpg
Off-topic #3: Did the Ely to King's Lynn railway branch today, also visiting Ely station in the process (had previously visited Ely by car in 2011).
Personally I'd be quite happy living in a federal European super-state. Suspect that, with sufficient practice/training/indoctrination, I could develop a similar level of satisfaction in my Europanness as I do currently in my Britishness. SeanT has written some fabulous paeans to European civilisation in the past. Something along those lines seems feasible as a source of "national" pride. The kicker is likely to be the disparity between the great peaks European culture has reached, and the bureaucratic, ossified, crisis-ridden nightmare that a European polity is likely to represent. Like the early history of the United States, the travails of the Eurozone indicate the perils of half-arsed integration.
For me, the strongest reason for voting Leave is that the British public don't really want to be in a federal Europe. Integration is largely taking place by a "ratchet effect" - the tide only goes one way, and you can end up more closely bound than either intended or desired. And there are strong economic and political forces which are going to pull the "core" EU countries closer together, particularly in the Eurozone. Sure, Britain might have some opt-outs, but the logic inherent in the "we must stay in the EU, because we can't influence from the sidelines" applies just as well to our membership of the core. When the EU is dominated almost completely by the Eurozone, especially as more and more accession countries join the single currency, Britain is going to be more and more peripheral unless it starts "doing Europe properly", with many opt-outs becoming less politically tenable unless semi-isolation within Europe is accepted.
Associate membership for the UK seems to me a better-fitting destination, in terms of popular will and perhaps even national character, than total integration. But where is the course for that?
Spurs are keeping it interesting, but the 4 points that we took off them this season will be the 4 points that win it for us. (I hope!)
@BBCNewsnight: Siemens boss @Juergen_Maier says no-one in world has struck major trade deal in 2 years so after #Brexit would likely take longer #newsnight
Be my brother Sunil. :-)
There was far more adverse contact on Vardy than there was on Reid when he dived for the penalty at the other end.
You'll be writing a thread saying Tim Fallon (sic) can be the next PM, next.
If Remain win, and Cameron stays long enough for passions to die down a bit then he could be a contender, particularly if the economic figures pick up.
I have more respect for the Blues who have picked a side and actively gone out campaigning for it than I do for those who have decided to lie low until they know which way the wind is blowing.
The true figure depends a bit on your assumptions and which year you take, but it certainly isn't £18bn. More like £8bn to £10bn, not all of which would be saved in any scenario, and little of which would be saved in the PB Leavers' favoured option of the EEA.
For some inexplicable reason, however, the Leavers here, who are indignant about Cameron and Osborne putting their side of the case, are 100% relaxed at the repeated use by the Leave campaign of the bogus £18bn figure. It's bizarre. Something to do with double standards, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScOw0RGp1io
I hadn't thought of this before but we could easily end up reducing immigration to the UK but still have higher net levels of migration.
£8.5 bn divided by 52 weeks = £163 million per week.
Can't see him getting involved though.
The trouble is that the gross amount is not the £19.2 Billion a year claimed which gives the £350 million a week. That number includes the rebate which never actually leaves the Treasury and absolutely should not be included in any claims about 'how much we send to Brussels'.
So Richard is quite right. The £350 million is a dishonest figure and it does Leave no credit to be using it. They are particularly daft because without the rebate the real number is £288 million a week and most people would still consider that a vast amount of money. If they used that number then Richard would have no grounds for complaint. As it is they are wasting a great attack line by trying to hype it up.
Now tell me, what is the £350 million a week figure?
Seems surprising given what's happened today, the ICM polls and now this ORB poll in particular.
You'd better tell The Sun before they print tomorrow's edition.
http://money-go-round.eu/Country.aspx?id=UK
Of course if you do not allow the EU expenditure on farming, conservation regional development or universities that comes back then you get to a bigger figure. It does mean that that spending will have to be cut so the money is spent on our NHS. Don't be surprised if the farmers, regions and universities are unhappy at their drop in income and campaign for Remain
Given all the dire consequences the EU will apparently visit on us if we Brexit, the payments to Brussels are basically a protection racket in the form of foreign aid.
For a proper number you should always look at the Pink Book out in October.
For 2014 the net figure paid to the EU was around £9.6 billion. Gross after the rebate was around £15billion.
For 2015 the net figure is around £8.5 billion although that is currently an estimate. In addition I am not clear if it includes the additional £1.7 billion that Osborne paid in which case the net figure might be as much as £10.2 billion. We won't know the exact figure until October.
Harry Potter.
No pride! No honour! No courage! Just sleazy self interest, which in the end will prove to be a delusion.
I am thinking more along the lines of George Osborne as Grima Wormtongue and Michael Gove as Eomer, driven from his father's hall by the lies of the advisor who is in secret league with Saruman (Jean-Claude Juncker).
Which REMAINer has posted such nonsense?
If you won't engage your opponent in arguments don't be surprised when voters ignore you.
Trump shortens further to 1.61, Cruz steady at 3.7, Kasich weakens at 16.5, Ryan seemingly out of it at 80.
It looks as if we are finally close to end game.
1111 seconds
0810
Michael Gove will set out his vision today for why the UK should leave the EU. Speaking on the programme is Michael Gove, justice secretary and co-convenor on the Vote Leave Campaign Committee.
It's complete nonsense either way, I've yet to see anyone take it seriously.