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    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable

    Bold choice of words.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RoyalBlue said:

    Seventh like Remain

    Like :smiley: have you done any more for Vote Leave? We should get the official designation on Thursday.
    I've made another donation. I'm looking forward to the designation decision on Thursday.
    Farage was interestingly emollient on the radio this morning (apart from blowing at - I think Giles Cohen - who, TBF, launched into a rant about UKIP out of the blue).

    Totally unbiased question ("are you going to go and hide if Vote Leave get the designation because they have made clear they don't want anything to do with you").

    Response: We've had disagreements in the past, but they have some very senior Cabinet Ministers on board now. I've met with two of them in the last week (interesting) and we've had some very serious conversations. Whichever group gets the designation doesn't matter - we are both going to work together: Vote Leave understand that they need to be able to reach out beyond the Tories, to the working classes and the left. [I paraphrase from memory]

    Sounds like there's a deal been done.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited April 2016
    Gifted Skinner all the publicity he wanted, and Tw@tter thinks he (Bercow) is working for the Tories !
    Unbelievable !
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. NorthWales, may make it likelier, but few things are inevitable.

    Death and taxes, of course. Ahem.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @nsoamesmp: Sad to see Skinner crash today once terrific now defunct volcano of the 80s sans nous sans prescence sans pretty much everything
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    Gifted Skinner all the publicity he wanted, and Tw@tter thinks he (Bercow) is working for the Tories !
    Unbelievable !
    Most of twitter think half the Labour party work for the Tories too...it was more the sneering remarks from "just a junior minister" that made him look like a tool.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    I've not used them (used Shawbrook instead) but what I've heard has been good.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable

    He has been hilariously crap almost daily since his election. It won't make any difference until the membership turn against him.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Cat McKinnel asks a sensible question.

    Would be a much better leader than Corbyn
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    edited April 2016

    RobD said:

    Blimey! Boris has paid £1m in tax in the last four years according to the Telegraph.

    I wish I had.
    I used to wind up my former senior partner by explaining one of my ambitions in life (still on the bucket list) was to pay CGT.

    At the risk of sounding other than a tory yet again one of the reasons that the better paid in this country are paying a larger share of the tax revenue is because they are doing very well thank you very much. I have no problem with those doing well earning well but if Corbyn got one thing right it is that the fact that mugs like me get hammered for tax and the very well off are given a broad range of reliefs and benefits and allowances which result in a much lower rate of tax. It just isn't right.

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Wanderer said:

    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable

    He has been hilariously crap almost daily since his election. It won't make any difference until the membership turn against him.
    Thankfully they've signed up a bunch of nutters, at least according to the string of stories on Guido's blog!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Afternoon all,

    Missed all the action as in a meeting. Am I safe in assuming another utterly dire performance from Corbyn?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    We should treat offshore wealth as terrorist finance - Paul Mason

    “It’s over. There are no more respectable forms of tax avoidance and from now on offshore wealth will be treated the same way we treat terrorist finance.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/smash-uk-mafia-elite-treat-offshore-wealth-terrorist-finance-perugia
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    Afternoon all,

    Missed all the action as in a meeting. Am I safe in assuming another utterly dire performance from Corbyn?

    Yes.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    Charles said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Seventh like Remain

    Like :smiley: have you done any more for Vote Leave? We should get the official designation on Thursday.
    I've made another donation. I'm looking forward to the designation decision on Thursday.
    Farage was interestingly emollient on the radio this morning (apart from blowing at - I think Giles Cohen - who, TBF, launched into a rant about UKIP out of the blue).

    Totally unbiased question ("are you going to go and hide if Vote Leave get the designation because they have made clear they don't want anything to do with you").

    Response: We've had disagreements in the past, but they have some very senior Cabinet Ministers on board now. I've met with two of them in the last week (interesting) and we've had some very serious conversations. Whichever group gets the designation doesn't matter - we are both going to work together: Vote Leave understand that they need to be able to reach out beyond the Tories, to the working classes and the left. [I paraphrase from memory]

    Sounds like there's a deal been done.
    Thanks Charles. I'll certainly be very surprised if Vote Leave don't get it but, with how Aaron Banks has been acting in recent months, I still half-expect him to launch a legal challenge if Leave EU/GO don't get it. He filed papers against Matthew Elliot a couple of weeks ago if memory serves me correctly, and I don't see any news he's withdrawn that.

    I don't have a problem with them operating a parallel campaign so long as it's coordinated and all the fire is directed on Remain, not on each other.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    DavidL said:

    Afternoon all,

    Missed all the action as in a meeting. Am I safe in assuming another utterly dire performance from Corbyn?

    Yes.
    I think Alan Duncan and Dennis Skinner have collectively made sure the story isn't about either Corbyn (or Osborne) today though.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    We should treat offshore wealth as terrorist finance - Paul Mason

    “It’s over. There are no more respectable forms of tax avoidance and from now on offshore wealth will be treated the same way we treat terrorist finance.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/smash-uk-mafia-elite-treat-offshore-wealth-terrorist-finance-perugia

    Are we including the Guardian's Cayman Islands account in that? :p
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Afternoon all,

    Missed all the action as in a meeting. Am I safe in assuming another utterly dire performance from Corbyn?

    If you believe the commentators here, yes. If you believe the BBC local station that I'm listening to, no. Cameron was poor and Corbyn effectively put him in the spot. It will only get worse for the Government, they say.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    We should treat offshore wealth as terrorist finance - Paul Mason

    “It’s over. There are no more respectable forms of tax avoidance and from now on offshore wealth will be treated the same way we treat terrorist finance.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/11/smash-uk-mafia-elite-treat-offshore-wealth-terrorist-finance-perugia

    We could do that but only if we were simple.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Scott_P said:

    Cat McKinnel asks a sensible question.

    Would be a much better leader than Corbyn

    I actually thought Angus Robertson made a sensible, measured and intelligent contribution, not for the first time. I thought his observations and questions were far more perceptive, interesting and relevant than anything said by Corbyn and I am not seeking to damn with faint praise.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    Blimey! Boris has paid £1m in tax in the last four years according to the Telegraph.

    I wish I had.
    I used to wind up my former senior partner by explaining one of my ambitions in life (still on the bucket list) was to pay CGT.

    At the risk of sounding other than a tory yet again one of the reasons that the better paid in this country are paying a larger share of the tax revenue is because they are doing very well thank you very much. I have no problem with those doing well earning well but if Corbyn got one thing right it is that the fact that mugs like me get hammered for tax and the very well off are given a broad range of reliefs and benefits and allowances which result in a much lower rate of tax. It just isn't right.

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.
    Too often, in this country, there seems to be more real resentment at those who have successful careers and work hard to earn between £50k-£150k per year, and pay a lot of tax in the process, rather than the real super rich who pay a pittance.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've adopted the Dennis Skinner approach in client meetings before now. I've seen that the client is heading in a catastrophic direction and so I've thrown myself still further out there to draw all enemy fire. It usually works well, though it does require steady nerve to execute it effectively.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    Blimey! Boris has paid £1m in tax in the last four years according to the Telegraph.

    I wish I had.
    I used to wind up my former senior partner by explaining one of my ambitions in life (still on the bucket list) was to pay CGT.

    At the risk of sounding other than a tory yet again one of the reasons that the better paid in this country are paying a larger share of the tax revenue is because they are doing very well thank you very much. I have no problem with those doing well earning well but if Corbyn got one thing right it is that the fact that mugs like me get hammered for tax and the very well off are given a broad range of reliefs and benefits and allowances which result in a much lower rate of tax. It just isn't right.

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.
    Too often, in this country, there seems to be more real resentment at those who have successful careers and work hard to earn between £50k-£150k per year, and pay a lot of tax in the process, rather than the real super rich who pay a pittance.
    Exactly so. Also those who earn their money rather than inherit it.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Charles said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    I've not used them (used Shawbrook instead) but what I've heard has been good.
    Thanks (and thanks to others who replied).

    I'd forgotten about Shawbrook, they look a useful option as well. I think we'll split the money into £75K chunks and spread it around to be sure of the FSCS protection.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    David Cameron is matchless and really is amazing when his back is to the wall

    You can't deny his masterful performance handling some technical tax issues in an understandable and convincing way .
    Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.
    Labour, unsurprisingly all over the place.
    As I said below, that's not what the BBC is saying and that is what will inform the views of the wider and generally semi-detached public.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    matt said:

    Afternoon all,

    Missed all the action as in a meeting. Am I safe in assuming another utterly dire performance from Corbyn?

    If you believe the commentators here, yes. If you believe the BBC local station that I'm listening to, no. Cameron was poor and Corbyn effectively put him in the spot. It will only get worse for the Government, they say.
    LOL...good old Beeb. Funny how they aren't very keen to repeat the interview with the tax expert they had on who rubbished all their outrage by explaining carefully and calmly what exactly Cameron had invested in and why he wouldn't even advice people to do so these days because it was actually pretty rubbish.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Amusingly, it came up my (physical chemistry) lecture today.

    "it feels like there's a lonely allotment somewhere"

    And they had all noticed that Corbyn, by filing a late return, was in the wrong.

    Scientists. Fear us.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Blimey Boris did well with a book in 2014/15 - £224K.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    That is the first time I have heard a Tory complain that businesses are reinvesting in jobs and technology, driving forward some areas by leaps and bounds instead of taking fat profits for the shareholders. Are you sure you are in the right party ? Amazon might not pay any tax, but those ten of thousand of people it employs all over the world pay tax, those billions it spends with hardware companies and other suppliers, they all pay tax because of the money Amazon spends with them.
    Well, it is unfair trading and unfair competition on those that do pay their taxes. I don't see anything Conservative about that. It reduces our tax base and allows capital appreciation as a result. All perfectly legal. All perfectly ridiculous.
    Well I guess it could expand a lot more slowly, employ a lot less people, we could all hand back our Kindles, we could turn off half the cloud services used by businesses, forget about all that nice digital media investment, the half a dozen other companies they bought would probably not have made it, including Blue Origin, and we could pay for a couple of thousand extra dole cheques in the UK and up to a 100,000 world wide....
    You are assuming that the business would not otherwise exist and would not employ others. You are assuming that these services would not be provided otherwise. I think if we had a variety of companies providing internet shopping based in the UK and paying tax in the UK we would have more employment, a better choice of services and considerably more tax paid for services in the society that provided those companies with their opportunities to make money.
    The problem (well, a problem) is that for users it is actually a lot more convenient to interact with a single, giant company than lots of smaller ones.
    Monopolies are always convenient until they are not.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Tax simplification will never happen. Why? Because everyone means different things by it.

    I wrote about this in 2010 on pb2 here:

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html

    I stand by every word.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Am I alone in thinking this is all getting a bit bonkers. Where does it end?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016

    Blimey Boris did well with a book in 2014/15 - £224K.

    Was that the "Life of London" or the Churchill one? He is getting £500k to do Shakespeare bio next.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Another day, another PB love-fest for the Tories - what a surprise.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873

    David Cameron is matchless and really is amazing when his back is to the wall

    You can't deny his masterful performance handling some technical tax issues in an understandable and convincing way .
    Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.
    Sounded DODGY to me.

    Do I have to withdraw for the current thread?
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: Government strategy now to use the Panama Papers fallout to attack LAbour for being "anti-aspiration" - on share ownership, Inheritance tax

    Took them a week to work out the correct line but it is still the correct line.
    Yeah, they should have done that earlier,

    BUT

    Didn't this kind of happen with the IDS/tax credit thing. A week of almost studied inaction, Labour frotted into incompetence and then a bravura performance in the house and the story deader than any cat, parrot, or related animal?~

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Am I alone in thinking this is all getting a bit bonkers. Where does it end?

    Yes...we are all just suffering nosey parker symdrome going ooohhh look Boris makes this, Osborne got that so much in dividends. None of which is dodgy or a conflict of interest etc.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    DavidL said:

    ...

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.

    Sorry, Mr. L. I haven't been keeping up today. Are you saying that Cameron has said he wants to simplify the tax code in this country?

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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    DavidL said:

    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    That is the first time I have heard a Tory complain that businesses are reinvesting in jobs and technology, driving forward some areas by leaps and bounds instead of taking fat profits for the shareholders. Are you sure you are in the right party ? Amazon might not pay any tax, but those ten of thousand of people it employs all over the world pay tax, those billions it spends with hardware companies and other suppliers, they all pay tax because of the money Amazon spends with them.
    Well, it is unfair trading and unfair competition on those that do pay their taxes. I don't see anything Conservative about that. It reduces our tax base and allows capital appreciation as a result. All perfectly legal. All perfectly ridiculous.
    Well I guess it could expand a lot more slowly, employ a lot less people, we could all hand back our Kindles, we could turn off half the cloud services used by businesses, forget about all that nice digital media investment, the half a dozen other companies they bought would probably not have made it, including Blue Origin, and we could pay for a couple of thousand extra dole cheques in the UK and up to a 100,000 world wide....
    You are assuming that the business would not otherwise exist and would not employ others. You are assuming that these services would not be provided otherwise. I think if we had a variety of companies providing internet shopping based in the UK and paying tax in the UK we would have more employment, a better choice of services and considerably more tax paid for services in the society that provided those companies with their opportunities to make money.
    The problem (well, a problem) is that for users it is actually a lot more convenient to interact with a single, giant company than lots of smaller ones.
    Monopolies are always convenient until they are not.
    The EU generally does a very good job of investigating and controlling those organisations who have dominant positions. You don't even need to be in the EU to be subject to it....
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    DavidL said:

    Wanderer said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    DavidL said:

    That is the first time I have heard a Tory complain that businesses are reinvesting in jobs and technology, driving forward some areas by leaps and bounds instead of taking fat profits for the shareholders. Are you sure you are in the right party ? Amazon might not pay any tax, but those ten of thousand of people it employs all over the world pay tax, those billions it spends with hardware companies and other suppliers, they all pay tax because of the money Amazon spends with them.
    Well, it is unfair trading and unfair competition on those that do pay their taxes. I don't see anything Conservative about that. It reduces our tax base and allows capital appreciation as a result. All perfectly legal. All perfectly ridiculous.
    Well I guess it could expand a lot more slowly, employ a lot less people, we could all hand back our Kindles, we could turn off half the cloud services used by businesses, forget about all that nice digital media investment, the half a dozen other companies they bought would probably not have made it, including Blue Origin, and we could pay for a couple of thousand extra dole cheques in the UK and up to a 100,000 world wide....
    You are assuming that the business would not otherwise exist and would not employ others. You are assuming that these services would not be provided otherwise. I think if we had a variety of companies providing internet shopping based in the UK and paying tax in the UK we would have more employment, a better choice of services and considerably more tax paid for services in the society that provided those companies with their opportunities to make money.
    The problem (well, a problem) is that for users it is actually a lot more convenient to interact with a single, giant company than lots of smaller ones.
    Monopolies are always convenient until they are not.
    Indeed, that's why it's a problem. Online monopolies are convenient in ways that real world ones aren't though.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Am I alone in thinking this is all getting a bit bonkers. Where does it end?

    You are not alone, and who knows?
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    David Cameron is matchless and really is amazing when his back is to the wall

    You can't deny his masterful performance handling some technical tax issues in an understandable and convincing way .
    Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.
    Sounded DODGY to me.

    Do I have to withdraw for the current thread?
    Rather like Corbyn's tax return, I fear you are late to the party.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Pulpstar said:

    Gifted Skinner all the publicity he wanted, and Tw@tter thinks he (Bercow) is working for the Tories !
    Unbelievable !
    Most of twitter think half the Labour party work for the Tories too...it was more the sneering remarks from "just a junior minister" that made him look like a tool.
    One of the ways the Speaker can keep order is by making disparaging remarks about MPs who speak out of turn.

    Ministers or other MPs shouting out from a sedentary position can expect to be admonished. If the Speaker's cutting remark is good enough it will keep them quiet for a while.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.'

    Just imagine what he might have achieved had he made any effort whatsoever in his renegotiation with the EU :)

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    runnymede said:

    'Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.'

    Just imagine what he might have achieved had he made any effort whatsoever in his renegotiation with the EU :)

    We'd be sitting down to witness the coronation of Elizabeth, Empress of the European Union. :D
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    runnymede said:

    'Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.'

    Just imagine what he might have achieved had he made any effort whatsoever in his renegotiation with the EU :)

    For that he would have had to WANT to achieve something.
    Sadly for us, that wasn't the case.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    David Cameron is matchless and really is amazing when his back is to the wall

    You can't deny his masterful performance handling some technical tax issues in an understandable and convincing way .
    Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.
    Sounded DODGY to me.

    Do I have to withdraw for the current thread?
    It would have been better if Skinner, on the way out, had screamed "Milifandom For EVAAAAA"
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    Wanderer said:

    Am I alone in thinking this is all getting a bit bonkers. Where does it end?

    You are not alone, and who knows?
    Think the story will move on now and the EU will become the headlines in the next few days
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    I'm sure Alan Duncan will be on the front page of the mirror tomorrow - idiot.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    runnymede said:

    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.

    He has focussed on reducing tax loopholes, hence Cameron boasting about the number of different anti avoidance steps taken today. But going down the route of closing loopholes is a never ending task. It is much better to simplify but it is much easier to do that when there is money to play with that can offset at least some of the losers.

    Lawson did his best tax reforms when he had money pouring in from the north sea and the big bang. I remember his target of finding a tax to abolish every budget. Good times but much, much harder to do when you have a huge and obstinate deficit to deal with.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    runnymede said:

    'Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.'

    Just imagine what he might have achieved had he made any effort whatsoever in his renegotiation with the EU :)

    For that he would have had to WANT to achieve something.
    Sadly for us, that wasn't the case.
    Quite.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    Tax simplification will never happen. Why? Because everyone means different things by it.

    I wrote about this in 2010 on pb2 here:

    http://politicalbetting.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/negotiations-and-love-songs-why.html

    I stand by every word.

    You were certainly right about the Office for Tax Simplification. Does it still exist?
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    DavidL said:

    runnymede said:

    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.

    He has focussed on reducing tax loopholes, hence Cameron boasting about the number of different anti avoidance steps taken today. But going down the route of closing loopholes is a never ending task. It is much better to simplify but it is much easier to do that when there is money to play with that can offset at least some of the losers.

    Lawson did his best tax reforms when he had money pouring in from the north sea and the big bang. I remember his target of finding a tax to abolish every budget. Good times but much, much harder to do when you have a huge and obstinate deficit to deal with.
    There are lots of things you can do which are revenue neutral. But there is just no appetite for it. Politically-driven tinkering is totally dominant.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    Blimey Boris did well with a book in 2014/15 - £224K.

    The earnings on my book were nearer £224.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    runnymede said:

    'Agreed. The PM has performed superbly this afternoon.'

    Just imagine what he might have achieved had he made any effort whatsoever in his renegotiation with the EU :)

    For that he would have had to WANT to achieve something.
    Sadly for us, that wasn't the case.
    Well said.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I'm sure Alan Duncan will be on the front page of the mirror tomorrow - idiot.

    What did he do?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    DavidL said:

    ...

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.

    Sorry, Mr. L. I haven't been keeping up today. Are you saying that Cameron has said he wants to simplify the tax code in this country?

    "Wants to" is probably a bit strong. He did say that his ideal was low taxes that everybody paid. And I agree with that. I think these days they call it aspirational.
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    I'm sure Alan Duncan will be on the front page of the mirror tomorrow - idiot.

    More likely Corbyn's late tax return other than the Daily Mirror, the one that is using offshore investment funds
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable

    Khan may be a very short-term Mayor of London if so.....
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I've adopted the Dennis Skinner approach in client meetings before now. I've seen that the client is heading in a catastrophic direction and so I've thrown myself still further out there to draw all enemy fire. It usually works well, though it does require steady nerve to execute it effectively.

    The dead cat approach. Lynton would no doubt be proud of Dennis - if he thought it was a deliberate ploy. I rather suspect it wasn't.

    As an aside, Skinner would now be Father of the House had he shown a bit more urgency in 1970. We can be grateful for small mercies.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    After today's dreadful performance by Corbyn the chances of a summer leadership challenge must be inevitable

    Khan may be a very short-term Mayor of London if so.....
    I'm pretty sure there will be an attempt post-EU referendum. Whether it will get anywhere seems less certain.

    Doubt Khan will run though.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    runnymede said:

    DavidL said:

    runnymede said:

    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.

    He has focussed on reducing tax loopholes, hence Cameron boasting about the number of different anti avoidance steps taken today. But going down the route of closing loopholes is a never ending task. It is much better to simplify but it is much easier to do that when there is money to play with that can offset at least some of the losers.

    Lawson did his best tax reforms when he had money pouring in from the north sea and the big bang. I remember his target of finding a tax to abolish every budget. Good times but much, much harder to do when you have a huge and obstinate deficit to deal with.
    There are lots of things you can do which are revenue neutral. But there is just no appetite for it. Politically-driven tinkering is totally dominant.
    I'm not surprised if you end up having 2 Budgets a year as has been happening.

    They've got to fill them with something. Far better to have lower taxes on everyone with very few exemptions at all. Simpler, cheaper to collect and fairer.

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    He doesn't get a very good press but this is a very nice gesture from John Terry:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-36014630
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    Cat McKinnel asks a sensible question.

    Would be a much better leader than Corbyn

    I actually thought Angus Robertson made a sensible, measured and intelligent contribution, not for the first time. I thought his observations and questions were far more perceptive, interesting and relevant than anything said by Corbyn and I am not seeking to damn with faint praise.
    I've been quite impressed with Robertson. I thought he'd be overshadowed by Salmond returning to Westminster. Instead, in his quiet way, he's been the most effective opposition parliamentary leader.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I've been quite impressed with Robertson. I thought he'd be overshadowed by Salmond returning to Westminster. Instead, in his quiet way, he's been the most effective opposition parliamentary leader.

    A fine example of damning with faint praise, David!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    Cat McKinnel asks a sensible question.

    Would be a much better leader than Corbyn

    I actually thought Angus Robertson made a sensible, measured and intelligent contribution, not for the first time. I thought his observations and questions were far more perceptive, interesting and relevant than anything said by Corbyn and I am not seeking to damn with faint praise.
    I've been quite impressed with Robertson. I thought he'd be overshadowed by Salmond returning to Westminster. Instead, in his quiet way, he's been the most effective opposition parliamentary leader.
    Not a lot of competition frankly.
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    DairADairA Posts: 49
    runnymede said:

    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.

    How much would a simplified tax code cost, though.

    The problem when you build an economy, in the long term, where tax avoidance is a mainstay of wealth accumulation and the complexity requires many relatively simple tax declarations to still benefit from paying an accountant, that a significant chunk of your economy is then based on this.

    I would be unsurprised if various accountancy practices from basic year end prep to full scale avoidance schemes do not make up somewhere close to 5% of the UK economy.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Freggles said:

    Another day, another PB love-fest for the Tories - what a surprise.


    I am not a Conservative but recognise that Cameron did well today.
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    FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299
    Anecdotage. My missus, not very political and a teacher has expressed strong sympathy for call me Dave on this tax lark. Huffing in annoyance. at labour spokesmen demanding ever more info "oh for goodness sake!" "ridiculous withhunt"and "load of bollcks". Vox populi.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    ...

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.

    Sorry, Mr. L. I haven't been keeping up today. Are you saying that Cameron has said he wants to simplify the tax code in this country?

    "Wants to" is probably a bit strong. He did say that his ideal was low taxes that everybody paid. And I agree with that. I think these days they call it aspirational.
    Thanks, Mr L, so just another meaningless soundbite from Cameron then.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Anecdotage. My missus, not very political and a teacher has expressed strong sympathy for call me Dave on this tax lark. Huffing in annoyance. at labour spokesmen demanding ever more info "oh for goodness sake!" "ridiculous withhunt"and "load of bollcks". Vox populi.

    You ought to know this. Your wife is a Tory !
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    DairADairA Posts: 49
    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

    There is no justification to expect private citizens to declare their income publicly if it is entirely privately generated.

    But there is absolutely no reason for Tax Consumers to be given the right to privacy over their consumption of tax. Indeed, anyone who consumes tax should be required to declare all their income so it is transparent that they are entitled to the tax they consume.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    I'm sure Alan Duncan will be on the front page of the mirror tomorrow - idiot.

    What did he do?

    From the mirror,said in his snobbish way.


    Backlash grows against 'obnoxious' MP Alan Duncan

    The backlash has grown about an ‘obnoxious’ Tory MP who blasted “low achievers who hate wealth”.

    Labour’s Caroline Flint (below) stands in the Commons to attack the remarks by Sir Alan Duncan (16:34).

    “It saddens me that he seems to suggest if you weren’t a millionaire you were a low achiever,” she says.

    “Speaking as a low achiever...”

    Liz Kendall adds on Twitter: “Obnoxious comment from Alan Duncan MP suggesting you can only be a high achiever if you make a packet of money.”
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I've been quite impressed with Robertson. I thought he'd be overshadowed by Salmond returning to Westminster. Instead, in his quiet way, he's been the most effective opposition parliamentary leader.

    A fine example of damning with faint praise, David!
    I wasn't meaning to, although I take the point that the standard required to be the 'best' isn't high. Robertson is unlikely to make many headlines in the London media unless for the wrong reasons but he's been pretty effective in what's quite a difficult job given the SNP's unusual position (a large number of MPs with not a lot to do, and a party hierarchy focussed on Holyrood and which won't want overshadowing from Westminster.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    DairA said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

    There is no justification to expect private citizens to declare their income publicly if it is entirely privately generated.

    But there is absolutely no reason for Tax Consumers to be given the right to privacy over their consumption of tax. Indeed, anyone who consumes tax should be required to declare all their income so it is transparent that they are entitled to the tax they consume.
    That would cover a lot of people. Anyone in receipt of benefits for example.
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    DairADairA Posts: 49

    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.

    Not just the way he handled it at the time. But the way he created an open goal for his (competent) opponents by creating the completely undefined and ambiguous class of "Aggressive Tax Avoidance" when surely he knew it would come back to bite him.

    Of course, competent opponents excludes Corbyn.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2016

    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.

    I've found the perception that Cameron wasn't honest about it and tried to cover his tracks in his first statements last week, has been more damaging than the actual tax affairs.
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    DairA said:

    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.

    Not just the way he handled it at the time. But the way he created an open goal for his (competent) opponents by creating the completely undefined and ambiguous class of "Aggressive Tax Avoidance" when surely he knew it would come back to bite him.

    Of course, competent opponents excludes Corbyn.
    Today Corbyn lost labour's case in a totally inept performance
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Cyclefree said:

    runnymede said:

    DavidL said:

    runnymede said:

    'Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.'

    Yes it is David, but we haven't had any for so very long now - nothing substantive since the 1980s to be honest.

    Indeed things have been going in the opposite direction, with more complexity and endless fiddling. I'm sorry to say it but the supposed Conservative Chancellor Osborne has been as much of a culprit here as his Labour predecessors.

    He has focussed on reducing tax loopholes, hence Cameron boasting about the number of different anti avoidance steps taken today. But going down the route of closing loopholes is a never ending task. It is much better to simplify but it is much easier to do that when there is money to play with that can offset at least some of the losers.

    Lawson did his best tax reforms when he had money pouring in from the north sea and the big bang. I remember his target of finding a tax to abolish every budget. Good times but much, much harder to do when you have a huge and obstinate deficit to deal with.
    There are lots of things you can do which are revenue neutral. But there is just no appetite for it. Politically-driven tinkering is totally dominant.
    I'm not surprised if you end up having 2 Budgets a year as has been happening.

    They've got to fill them with something. Far better to have lower taxes on everyone with very few exemptions at all. Simpler, cheaper to collect and fairer.

    I have been saying that for decades, Mrs Free. But it will never happen, politicians of whatever stripe, like to do things and when you have a CoE who wants to be prime minister as we have had for much of the past 20 years the problem is exacerbated.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    Blimey! Boris has paid £1m in tax in the last four years according to the Telegraph.

    I wish I had.
    I used to wind up my former senior partner by explaining one of my ambitions in life (still on the bucket list) was to pay CGT.

    At the risk of sounding other than a tory yet again one of the reasons that the better paid in this country are paying a larger share of the tax revenue is because they are doing very well thank you very much. I have no problem with those doing well earning well but if Corbyn got one thing right it is that the fact that mugs like me get hammered for tax and the very well off are given a broad range of reliefs and benefits and allowances which result in a much lower rate of tax. It just isn't right.

    Tax simplification, as explained by Cameron today, is really the way to go and progress is far too slow.
    Too often, in this country, there seems to be more real resentment at those who have successful careers and work hard to earn between £50k-£150k per year, and pay a lot of tax in the process, rather than the real super rich who pay a pittance.
    Exactly so. Also those who earn their money rather than inherit it.
    And those who work to earn their money rather than sit on rising asset values.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Conor McGinn MPVerified account
    @ConorMcGinn
    Tory MP after Tory MP now standing up in House of Commons to say if you aren't rich you aren't successful. Draw your own conclusions, folks.
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    DairADairA Posts: 49
    edited April 2016
    RobD said:

    DairA said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

    There is no justification to expect private citizens to declare their income publicly if it is entirely privately generated.

    But there is absolutely no reason for Tax Consumers to be given the right to privacy over their consumption of tax. Indeed, anyone who consumes tax should be required to declare all their income so it is transparent that they are entitled to the tax they consume.
    That would cover a lot of people. Anyone in receipt of benefits for example.
    Yes, that's the intention. Combine it with a modern form of Athenian naval funding for Tax Declarations and it could sort the system out quite sharpish.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Danny565 said:

    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.

    I've found the perception that Cameron wasn't honest about it and tried to cover his tracks in his first statements last week, has been more damaging than the actual tax affairs.
    Yes. This would now largely be a non-story had Cameron just been upfront to begin with.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Danny565 said:

    @FattyBolger My other half held forth on this subject this morning. His view was that the amount of money didn't bother him but that he felt that David Cameron had only himself to blame for all the bad publicity given the way he'd handled it. He felt that he needed to get a grip.

    I have to say I basically agree with him.

    I've found the perception that Cameron wasn't honest about it and tried to cover his tracks in his first statements last week, has been more damaging than the actual tax affairs.
    Yep. There seems nothing much in it, but people now either think there is, or he acted like there was.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Danny565 said:

    Conor McGinn MPVerified account
    @ConorMcGinn
    Tory MP after Tory MP now standing up in House of Commons to say if you aren't rich you aren't successful. Draw your own conclusions, folks.

    Labour just doesn't get aspiration. Blair did and Labour has disowned him. People want to earn more and pay less tax, it is a very basic fact of life. I've come across very few people who want the opposite.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    There's a new opinion poll out in Wales:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-11/welsh-political-barometer-labour-retain-lead-while-plaid-cymru-move-up-ahead-of-assembly-election/

    Main story - Conservatives declining (not exactly surprisingly, all things considered).
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    FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299


    You ought to know this. Your wife is a Tory !

    Ha!, I'll tell her that! Her views on Gove are unprintable although i believe she did vote Con last year as she thought Ed M as Pm was too absurd to contemplate.

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    DairADairA Posts: 49

    There's a new opinion poll out in Wales:

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-04-11/welsh-political-barometer-labour-retain-lead-while-plaid-cymru-move-up-ahead-of-assembly-election/

    Main story - Conservatives declining (not exactly surprisingly, all things considered).

    The headline "Plaid Cymru move up" seems to mean the Scottish Tory way of "moving up" - i.e. standing still while those around you plummet.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130
    Hunky Dunky sunky by massive love for sound of own voice. Again.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820



    Thanks Charles. I'll certainly be very surprised if Vote Leave don't get it but, with how Aaron Banks has been acting in recent months, I still half-expect him to launch a legal challenge if Leave EU/GO don't get it. He filed papers against Matthew Elliot a couple of weeks ago if memory serves me correctly, and I don't see any news he's withdrawn that.

    I don't have a problem with them operating a parallel campaign so long as it's coordinated and all the fire is directed on Remain, not on each other.

    From the horse's mouth http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/farage-breitbart-designation-week-now-lets-unite-fight/
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394
    MaxPB said:

    Danny565 said:

    Conor McGinn MPVerified account
    @ConorMcGinn
    Tory MP after Tory MP now standing up in House of Commons to say if you aren't rich you aren't successful. Draw your own conclusions, folks.

    Labour just doesn't get aspiration. Blair did and Labour has disowned him. People want to earn more and pay less tax, it is a very basic fact of life. I've come across very few people who want the opposite.
    I'm not watching BBC Parliament but I suspect Tory MPs are saying that being well-off isn't a crime and, more often than not, those who pay a lot of tax not are those who have worked very hard to become a success.

    They are absolutely not saying the opposite, but I don't expect the Labour benches to understand that.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    DairA said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

    There is no justification to expect private citizens to declare their income publicly if it is entirely privately generated.

    But there is absolutely no reason for Tax Consumers to be given the right to privacy over their consumption of tax. Indeed, anyone who consumes tax should be required to declare all their income so it is transparent that they are entitled to the tax they consume.
    That may well be logical. But I'm afraid that I think the right to privacy is pretty fundamental. With no privacy we have no real freedom. I disagree with Mr Meeks over this. My financial affairs, like my medical affairs, indeed, like any sort of affairs, are private. I answer to HMRC for my financial affairs not to anyone else.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    Lord Ashcroft really is very very bitter (still) about not getting that ministers job Cameron promised him.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    Cyclefree said:

    DairA said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Talking of interest on deposits, has anyone got experience of Aldermore for business deposits? The interest rates look very good (too good?).

    1.10 to 2.35% ?

    Excellent rates for a business acount to my eyes, don't look "too good" to me.
    Hell of a lot better than NatWest!
    I've had a personal account with them and they've been very efficient.

    I hope you don't mean tax efficient..... :o
    :)



    :o you do mean tax efficient!
    My dearest one: I believe in privacy. I can assure you - but, ssh, don't tell - I have paid tax on the few pounds of interest I have earned.

    :)

    There is no justification to expect private citizens to declare their income publicly if it is entirely privately generated.

    But there is absolutely no reason for Tax Consumers to be given the right to privacy over their consumption of tax. Indeed, anyone who consumes tax should be required to declare all their income so it is transparent that they are entitled to the tax they consume.
    That may well be logical. But I'm afraid that I think the right to privacy is pretty fundamental. With no privacy we have no real freedom. I disagree with Mr Meeks over this. My financial affairs, like my medical affairs, indeed, like any sort of affairs, are private. I answer to HMRC for my financial affairs not to anyone else.
    I suspect much of the country agree. Think about the uproar over ID cards. It wasn't the fact you were going to have a card kinda of like a passport, it was all the personal info and the wide range of people who were going to be able to access it that did for the scheme.

    IMO, the biggest problem was actually biometrics were (and still aren't) as reliable as they needed to be and of course IT / governments, cos nothing ever goes wrong with highly complex IT schemes when the government is involved.
This discussion has been closed.