Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson is having a deeply unimpressive referendum ca

SystemSystem Posts: 11,709
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson is having a deeply unimpressive referendum campaign so far

Look at the above video from Boris Johnson’s appearance at the Treasury Select Committee earlier on this week, where his past comments/hyperbole on the EU came back to haunt him. Then there’s that tweet showing his inconsistency. Unfortunately for Boris these are the norms, not the exceptions.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,073
    edited March 2016
    I think one thing that is the case with Boris, is that those who dislike Cameron's Flashman tendencies, would do well not to expect different from Boris. I think Cameron cuts a crueller line in gags, but Boris I've seen tends to react pretty petulantly to to criticism and rebuttal, as I think the attached video shows. It seems very common among newer MPs in particular (I think as a reaction against aggressive interviewers, they are preemptively on the defensive and react like children to any contrary point), but Boris embodies it as well.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.
  • Options
    agingjbagingjb Posts: 76
    But who will be the two candidates that the MPs hand on to the Tory membership? One Remain and one Leave? Someone and Boris?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,073
    agingjb said:

    But who will be the two candidates that the MPs hand on to the Tory membership? One Remain and one Leave? Someone and Boris?

    In the event of a Leave win I'd be amazed if a Remainer got through to the final two - the beaten Remainers would I guess be too shell shocked to gather behind a a candidate on the losing side of the argument that just toppled Cameron.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/27/ukip-backed-leave-eu-brexit-campaign-employs-eu-migrants-arron-banks

    The Ukip-backed campaign to pull Britain out of the EU has recruited EU migrants to staff its call centre despite telling voters such low-skilled workers “deprive British citizens of jobs”.

    Leave.EU employs four phone bank staff from EU countries including Slovakia. Their job is to rally voters across the UK to back Brexit. The appointments come despite Leave.EU claiming that “as the world’s fifth biggest economy, the UK is well placed to supply its own labour”.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    edited March 2016
    agingjb said:

    But who will be the two candidates that the MPs hand on to the Tory membership? One Remain and one Leave? Someone and Boris?

    For an election over the summer, take any two from Boris, Osborne, Hammond, May, Hunt and Gove. I don't think the Leave/Remain split is as big as might be made out. I could see the membership being asked to choose between Boris and Gove, or between May and Hammond, to take two examples. A lot will depend on the campaign dynamics and the emergence of Stop-X movements.

    That's one reason I'm including Hammond. Yes, he's dull. That's precisely why he's a convenient vehicle to be used to stop others: his own negatives are less potent than some other candidates'.
  • Options
    Water cannons and riot police deployed against far right in Place de le Bourse.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    water cannon and riot police turned on protestors in Brussels...
  • Options

    agingjb said:

    But who will be the two candidates that the MPs hand on to the Tory membership? One Remain and one Leave? Someone and Boris?

    For an election over the summer, take any two from Boris, Osborne, Hammond, May, Hunt and Gove. I don't think the Leave/Remain split is as big as might be made out. I could see the membership being asked to choose between Boris and Gove, or between May and Hammond, to take two examples. A lot will depend on the campaign dynamics and the emergence of Stop-X movements.

    That's one reason I'm including Hammond. Yes, he's dull. That's precisely why he's a convenient vehicle to be used to stop others: his own negatives are less potent than some other candidates'.
    And this possible scenario is why I believe David Cameron will continue for a period irrespective of the result.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    EPG - from previous thread: you should have read a bit further down the document you linked to:

    'If Britain left the Community, our position would be both uncertain and unsatisfactory. We might well find this country moving rapidly into a Socialist siege economy, because the gravity of our economic situation would be such that the Government would be very tempted to resort to rigid controls in a dual attempt to staunch the inflow of imports and the outflow of capital, while simultaneously extending the frontiers of Socialism. For example, Mr. Heffer was reported as having said at a recent Tribune rally in Manchester that getting Britain out of the Community would be the first step to creating the Socialist society which he and his Left-wing colleagues want in this country (Daily Telegraph, 12 April 1975)'

    and...

    'In general, [the Uk leaving the Community]...could contribute to the gradual fragmentation and even disintegration of the West, thus serving only the strategic interests of the Soviet Union and its allies in the Warsaw Pact.'

    and...

    'The Soviet Government would like to see Britain leave the Community and it has made its view known in frequent broadcasts on Moscow Radio'
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    'Ear, 'Ear, 'Ear (and assorted Parliamentary gruntings of a plauditory nature) to TSE. Boris will not be PM though ironically he would likely to be to the left of Cameron on a number of issues, which of course the righties are well aware.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,209
    "History has shown, this far out it is profitable to lay the favourite for the Tory leadership, Boris is not showing any evidence why punters should break that habit."

    When does it become acceptable to be the favourite? Once we know the final 2?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited March 2016
    Isn't Wes Streeting the MP for Sunil of this parish?

    He's (Wes, not Sunil) only been a MP for five minutes: first elected in 2015.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    tlg86 said:

    "History has shown, this far out it is profitable to lay the favourite for the Tory leadership, Boris is not showing any evidence why punters should break that habit."

    When does it become acceptable to be the favourite? Once we know the final 2?

    Depends on who the final two are. I don't know but I'd guess that neither IDS nor Cameron were favourites immediately after the MPs had finished voting.
  • Options

    Isn't Wes Streeting the MP for Sunil of this parish?

    He's (Wes, not Sunil) only been a MP for five minutes: first elected in 2015.

    Nick Clegg was MP for just over two years before he became Lib Dem leader.
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    'Ear, 'Ear, 'Ear (and assorted Parliamentary gruntings of a plauditory nature) to TSE. Boris will not be PM though ironically he would likely to be to the left of Cameron on a number of issues, which of course the righties are well aware.

    Cheers John.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,097

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    I think there is a tendency to see everything through the eyes of the EU referendum. When, in fact, there are a great many reasons to think that Boris would be a terrible PM, despite being basically (albeit belatedly) right on the EU.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    MineForNothing
    California Poll: USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times

    Trump - 37%
    Cruz - 30%
    Kasich - 12%

    Poll conducted Mar. 16-23
    MoE +- 5.5%
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    "History has shown, this far out it is profitable to lay the favourite for the Tory leadership, Boris is not showing any evidence why punters should break that habit."

    When does it become acceptable to be the favourite? Once we know the final 2?

    About a 5 days before before vote day in 1990.

    Dave didn't become favourite until after the Tory conference in October 2005, and he became Tory leader in December 2005.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,209

    tlg86 said:

    "History has shown, this far out it is profitable to lay the favourite for the Tory leadership, Boris is not showing any evidence why punters should break that habit."

    When does it become acceptable to be the favourite? Once we know the final 2?

    Depends on who the final two are. I don't know but I'd guess that neither IDS nor Cameron were favourites immediately after the MPs had finished voting.
    I was only 14 in 2001 but once I saw who the final two were I assumed IDS would win simply because of Ken Clarke being pro EU.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341

    MineForNothing
    California Poll: USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times

    Trump - 37%
    Cruz - 30%
    Kasich - 12%

    Poll conducted Mar. 16-23
    MoE +- 5.5%

    MoE of 5.5% means a sample size of 324! Who is paying for these polls?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    edited March 2016
    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Brooke, Brady was sensible, calling for people to calm down over what threatened to become a full-blown civil war.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416
    I heard the exchange with Andrew Tyrie on Yesterday in Parliament and I was confused about what the excitement was. It seemed to me that if anything Boris got the better of the exchanges.

    But the general premise is correct. Boris' shambolic and uncertain approach reflects Leave which has no coherent idea of what comes next, indeed it has a number of inconsistent ideas and objectives. I suspect Boris is very conscious of this and is anxious not to alienate potential supporters. But you either lead or you don't. He has to work out what he wants and then he has to sell it. Tick tock.
  • Options

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I've said many times I'd never vote for him, and I don't know a member who would.

    I'm responding to the obvious timing of personal attack on him by Parris - highlighted in the thread header.
    rcs1000 said:

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    I think there is a tendency to see everything through the eyes of the EU referendum. When, in fact, there are a great many reasons to think that Boris would be a terrible PM, despite being basically (albeit belatedly) right on the EU.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    so moral of the story is look good by not campaigning.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,038
    edited March 2016
    Some of you may recall my early disdain for Boris: when he was making his mind up I wanted him in LEAVE, on the grounds that I'd rather lose without him than win with him. So I find myself oddly at the head of the curve when it comes to Boris-loathing: for a congenital late-adopter who still had a Nokia phone until 2013/4, it's an odd experience. But enough about me, let's talk about the Conservative Russell Brand.

    Look at his life story: whether it's jobs or relationships, he starts something, gets bored, engineers a reason to leave, b*****s off, start's something new, rinse and repeat. He's let down everybody in his life, personal and professional, and bolted from every commitment. This is not somebody you would trust with the Premiership: frankly he's too irresponsible to be a junior minister.

    But don't just take my word for it. For those of you who wish to read the non-paywalled text of Parris's attack piece, see here. For the 2013 documentary on Boris, see here

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    [EDIT: fix tags]
  • Options
    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Wes Streeting was just playing to the gallery. No doubt eyeing a place on the Shadow Front Bench in the future. The same goes for Rachel Reeves.

    Politics and the media are in a very tawdry place at the moment. I've never read so much low-level journalism. It's just so - ugh!
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    At present I would vote May but it would be a difficult choice if Gove were her opponent. Both are grown up candidates and either should be winners in 2020.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Bojo has lost his mojo.

    When it's gone, it is impossible to get back. He had a good run of 8 years, which is more than most pols get.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Cold, dark, gloomy, rainy windy day. Glad I walked the hound a few hours ago.
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    At present I would vote May but it would be a difficult choice if Gove were her opponent. Both are grown up candidates and either should be winners in 2020.
    Same here.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Pew Research
    Easter with the family? OK to use your mobile phone at dinner? 88% say generally not OK https://t.co/ssuO0J1ulG https://t.co/PZxCrvtst1
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Wes Streeting was just playing to the gallery. No doubt eyeing a place on the Shadow Front Bench in the future. The same goes for Rachel Reeves.

    Politics and the media are in a very tawdry place at the moment. I've never read so much low-level journalism. It's just so - ugh!

    Only under an an avowedly anti hard left leadership post a 2020 Labour massacre (which could see Wes losing his seat depending on the new boundaries).
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    JohnO said:

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    At present I would vote May but it would be a difficult choice if Gove were her opponent. Both are grown up candidates and either should be winners in 2020.
    Same here.
    meanwhile in a pub in Bromsgrove a balding MP tries to tell anybody who is interested that he could have been a contender.
  • Options
    There is clearly a concerted plan to hurt Boris's leadership chances and the LEAVE campaign underway. Do we get just one pro-LEAVE article a week?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,628
    edited March 2016

    JohnO said:

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    At present I would vote May but it would be a difficult choice if Gove were her opponent. Both are grown up candidates and either should be winners in 2020.
    Same here.
    meanwhile in a pub in Bromsgrove a balding MP tries to tell anybody who is interested that he could have been a contender.
    I've written thread about Sajid Javid as PM.

    Would have gone up this weekend, but it just needs some editing.

    Is me prattling on about being a Muslim in Britain.

    Should be up next weekend.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,014
    Mr. Eagles, Javid's the second incarnation of Baroness Warsi. Nice backstory, but there's nothing there.
  • Options
    Interesting source of the tweet.

    Sir Eric Pickles
    @EricPickles
    Palestinian Authorities are making payments to terrorists with UK taxpayers money
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3510827/Revealed-UK-aid-funds-TERRORISTS-budget-cuts-12bn-taxes-splurged-foreign-hand-outs-militants-killers-Palestinian-palaces-jobs-don-t-exist.html
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,209
    Cambridge girls are sinking.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    JohnO said:

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Boris looks daft, IDS has resigned, Dave's looking weak and shifty, Osborne's toast. No LDs are visible, arguably only Jezza is looking good, but that's because he's kept out of it.

    Gove is.

    Theresa May is by not being visible.

    Hillary Benn is but that's under the radar.
    At present I would vote May but it would be a difficult choice if Gove were her opponent. Both are grown up candidates and either should be winners in 2020.
    Same here.
    meanwhile in a pub in Bromsgrove a balding MP tries to tell anybody who is interested that he could have been a contender.
    I've written thread about Sajid Javid as PM.

    Would have gone up this weekend, but it just needs some editing.

    Is me prattling on about being a Muslim in Britain.

    Should be up next weekend.
    Don't spend too much time on it. He's a casualty of the EUref and attached to Osborne.

    Aston Villa have better chances avoiding relegation.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Mr. Eagles, Javid's the second incarnation of Baroness Warsi. Nice backstory, but there's nothing there.

    A bit harsh - George did him no favours by propelling him up the greasy pole too far too soon.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    tlg86 said:

    Cambridge girls are sinking.

    Yeah, we need to let Oxford win something ...

    ... as compensation for them having to live in Oxford. ;)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,038

    Sorry young Eagles, but is anyone having a good Euro campaign ?

    Paul Dacre.

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016
    Much as I personally agree with the header, I fear the public would love Boris as PM.

    The bottom line is people like him, and he reminds people of the Olympics, those glorious few weeks when everyone was in a good mood for a change. Being able to cheer people up means others are willing to overlook all sorts of other personal failings. As bad as he would be for the governance of the country, I think the public would lap him up.

    Conversely, as a Labour supporter, Michael Gove is my top preference for Tory leader: I think as far as Tories go he's alright and has a bit of integrity so the governance of the country wouldn't be too bad, but he also would severely damage the Tories' political fortunes since he has a natural talent for rubbing people the wrong way and he makes Ed Miliband look like a fully-paid-up member of the human race.
  • Options

    There is clearly a concerted plan to hurt Boris's leadership chances and the LEAVE campaign underway. Do we get just one pro-LEAVE article a week?

    Yup, you got me.

    Remain got in touch and said I needed to do an anti Boris thread to compensate for the four anti George threads I've written in the last week
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016
    I think most of the public wouldn't even realise he was having a campaign...after his initial announcement for the BREXIT side, I don't think most people read his Telegraph pieces etc.

    So far the campaign has been dominated by willy waving over who has the more signatures on a letter and doomsday scenarios for for / against leaving.
  • Options

    I think most of the public wouldn't even realise he was having a campaign...after his initial announcement for the BREXIT side, I don't think most people read his Telegraph pieces etc.

    So far the campaign has been dominated by willy waving over who has the more signatures on a letter and doomsday scenarios for for / against leaving.

    But Tory MPs have noticed, and they get to decide the final two.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    There is clearly a concerted plan to hurt Boris's leadership chances and the LEAVE campaign underway. Do we get just one pro-LEAVE article a week?

    Boris may be all the things his opponents say but for the past week he's run into a wave of ad hominem attacks CCHQ normally reserves for the leader of the Labour Party.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016

    I think most of the public wouldn't even realise he was having a campaign...after his initial announcement for the BREXIT side, I don't think most people read his Telegraph pieces etc.

    So far the campaign has been dominated by willy waving over who has the more signatures on a letter and doomsday scenarios for for / against leaving.

    But Tory MPs have noticed, and they get to decide the final two.
    Fair point. But if he makes the final two, I don't think how crap and indecisive he has been in the EU campaign will really be remembered (although it certainly should for a number of reasons).
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472
    edited March 2016

    tlg86 said:

    "History has shown, this far out it is profitable to lay the favourite for the Tory leadership, Boris is not showing any evidence why punters should break that habit."

    When does it become acceptable to be the favourite? Once we know the final 2?

    Depends on who the final two are. I don't know but I'd guess that neither IDS nor Cameron were favourites immediately after the MPs had finished voting.
    Cameron was so far ahead among members following his conference speech that David Davis was advised to withdraw after the final ballot to spare himself further humiliation. Duncan Smith was considered the favourite ahead of Clarke in that final two, because of Europe, although Clarke was expected to beat Portillo.

    In fact, although as we have both noted in the past Tory leaders tend to be hard to pick twelve months in advance, they're not usually hard to pick by about halfway through the actual election.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,038

    There is clearly a concerted plan to hurt Boris's leadership chances and the LEAVE campaign underway. Do we get just one pro-LEAVE article a week?

    Boris may be all the things his opponents say but for the past week he's run into a wave of ad hominem attacks CCHQ normally reserves for the leader of the Labour Party.
    If you're talking about an argument (e.g. should we REMAIN/LEAVE?) then ad-hominems are at best a useless distraction. But if you're talking about the suitability of a given person for a post then ad-hominems are a necessary part of the process. Boris has personal characteristics that make him unsuitable for PM. Pointing them out is legitimate.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
    I *think* it was.

    He appeared to know nothing about the race, and just wasn't very funny.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016
    I know BBC are short on sports, but showing us highlights of Cambridge vs Oxford Aussie Rules Football...prime time.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
    I *think* it was.

    He appeared to know nothing about the race, and just wasn't very funny.
    Sounds like Seann Walsh ;-)
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    I think most of the public wouldn't even realise he was having a campaign...after his initial announcement for the BREXIT side, I don't think most people read his Telegraph pieces etc.

    So far the campaign has been dominated by willy waving over who has the more signatures on a letter and doomsday scenarios for for / against leaving.

    But Tory MPs have noticed, and they get to decide the final two.
    If Boris and Osborne have dragged each other down and out it will do the Conservatives a huge favour.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,793
    JohnO said:

    'Ear, 'Ear, 'Ear (and assorted Parliamentary gruntings of a plauditory nature) to TSE. Boris will not be PM though ironically he would likely to be to the left of Cameron on a number of issues, which of course the righties are well aware.

    What he said.

    Boris was also deeply unimpressive in his first Commons outing after he declared himself a LEAVER.....yes, the general public won't notice, but you can be confident Tory MPs will......
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    It's all one to me whether Boris becomes Conservative leader. I certainly don't think he'd be unpopular, although he's obviously lazy. But then, maybe clever, lazy, people are good leaders, so long as they've got clever, hardworking people to delegate to.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
    I *think* it was.

    He appeared to know nothing about the race, and just wasn't very funny.
    Sounds like Seann Walsh ;-)
    Yes it is...get him off...for his own sake.

    LOL...they just caught Helen Skelton basically saying get him off...
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
    I *think* it was.

    He appeared to know nothing about the race, and just wasn't very funny.
    Sounds like Seann Walsh ;-)
    Having seen another section from him, I think the problem is that he's a little drunk.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    The BBC boat race coverage has a rather unfunny comedian (Shaun someone or other) giving what apparently passes for his thoughts.

    Is this really the best they can do?

    (There is at least one very famous boat race veteran comedian, although he might be a bit busy).

    What did he say? Was it Seann Walsh?
    I *think* it was.

    He appeared to know nothing about the race, and just wasn't very funny.
    The BBC's record of using 'comic' reporters to cover events is not a glorious one.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016
    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either having already got a medal at previous Olympics.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    I found it interesting: I had no idea that Muslims could, with permission and at a cost, delay Ramadan. This shows how much Mrs J obeys Ramadan. Or in fact any other part of Islam . ;)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    I found it interesting: I had no idea that Muslims could, with permission and at a cost, delay Ramadan. This shows how much Mrs J obeys Ramadan. Or in fact any other part of Islam . ;)
    Did you not? There are a number of exceptions that are allowed and that is why the whole school exams thing was pandering to only the hardline of the hardline...most will be told they allowed to delay for such events, just as if you are serious ill for some reason.

    TBH, I think as segment it would be far better as one of those "anybody can do it" for the Olympics, given his normal upbringing, and not the stereotype of rowing only being Oxford vs Cambridge.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    I found it interesting: I had no idea that Muslims could, with permission and at a cost, delay Ramadan. This shows how much Mrs J obeys Ramadan. Or in fact any other part of Islam . ;)
    Did you not? There are a number of exceptions that are allowed and that is why the whole school exams thing was pandering to only the hardline of the hardline...most will be giving allowed to delay, just as if you are serious ill.
    I knew (or believed) there was a rule about missing it if there was a battle, or on campaign. But not that you could choose to under certain conditions. At least as far as I can remember.

    One of the problems with being married to a Turkish feminist atheist liberal is that religion doesn't often come up in conversation ... ;)

    (As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.)
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either having already got a medal at previous Olympics.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    Agree, it was deeply irritating. But it wouldn't have been the BBC if they hadn't done it.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    You don't want a details person as PM but someone with leadership qualities.

    Reagan for example was not a details person but showed leadership

    Blair was short on detail (and accuracy) but convincing as a leader (at the time)

    Cameron also is short on detail but good with words.

    Thatcher was both a strong lader and strong on detail and follow up.

    Boris Johnson is no good on detail but he is inspirational, a good leadership quality.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    I found it interesting: I had no idea that Muslims could, with permission and at a cost, delay Ramadan. This shows how much Mrs J obeys Ramadan. Or in fact any other part of Islam . ;)
    Did you not? There are a number of exceptions that are allowed and that is why the whole school exams thing was pandering to only the hardline of the hardline...most will be giving allowed to delay, just as if you are serious ill.
    I knew (or believed) there was a rule about missing it if there was a battle, or on campaign. But not that you could choose to under certain conditions. At least as far as I can remember.

    One of the problems with being married to a Turkish feminist atheist liberal is that religion doesn't often come up in conversation ... ;)

    (As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.)
    I believe a lot comes down to your particular strand of Islam and your Iman. That is why the exam thing bothered me, we should be discussing with Iman's how to make things work within our existing system...I believe how NP-exMP likes to say they did with regards to Halal Slaughter (which at the time was a good step forward, but now we have increasing numbers saying they only want "genuine" halal).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,472

    (As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.)

    Isn't that rather unfair? Sh*t serves many useful purposes... :wink:
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    AndyJS said:

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either having already got a medal at previous Olympics.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    Agree, it was deeply irritating. But it wouldn't have been the BBC if they hadn't done it.
    The segment had merit in the right setting, not because of specifically his faith, but because he breaks a stereotype of only poshos doing rowing. It was a perfect segment for one of those "hey anybody can become an Olympian shows" they do from time to time.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,038

    You don't want a details person as PM but someone with leadership qualities.

    Reagan for example was not a details person but showed leadership

    Blair was short on detail (and accuracy) but convincing as a leader (at the time)

    Cameron also is short on detail but good with words.

    Thatcher was both a strong lader and strong on detail and follow up.

    Boris Johnson is no good on detail but he is inspirational, a good leadership quality.

    I wouldn't call him inspirational, Charismatic, certainly, but inspirational? His record isn't one of producing good work in a team
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    ydoethur said:

    (As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.)

    Isn't that rather unfair? Sh*t serves many useful purposes... :wink:
    I see Dawkins on atheism in a similar manner to Greer or Harman (*) on feminism: they pretend to speak for all atheists or feminists, and get a great deal of money/influence from their views. Those views therefore they slowly become more extreme and stupid.

    In the meantime, the majority of atheists and feminists I talk to are much more moderate. In fact, it's a bit like religious extremists versus the 'ordinary' religious person.

    But this is well off-topic ...

    (*) Though I don't believe Harman is a feminist, despite any t-shirt she may wear.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    AndyJS said:

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either having already got a medal at previous Olympics.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    Agree, it was deeply irritating. But it wouldn't have been the BBC if they hadn't done it.
    The segment had merit in the right setting, not because of specifically his faith, but because he breaks a stereotype of only poshos doing rowing. It was a perfect segment for one of those "hey anybody can become an Olympian shows" they do from time to time.
    Would you have preferred another couple of minutes of the 'comedian' ? ;)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    edited March 2016

    AndyJS said:

    And of course got to get in the PC segment about Mo Sbihi, a very good rower, but nothing to do with the Boat Race and not a new face either having already got a medal at previous Olympics.

    No idea why they would want to shoehorn that into the programme...innocent face.

    Agree, it was deeply irritating. But it wouldn't have been the BBC if they hadn't done it.
    The segment had merit in the right setting, not because of specifically his faith, but because he breaks a stereotype of only poshos doing rowing. It was a perfect segment for one of those "hey anybody can become an Olympian shows" they do from time to time.
    Would you have preferred another couple of minutes of the 'comedian' ? ;)
    Sigh....what a tit...he isn't that funny when he is sober and even less so drunk.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    "Tank-topped bum boys".

    I'd never heard that before and laughed out loud. That's the great thing about modern conservatives, they elect homophobic MPs then turn their guns on anybody homophobic or anti gay marriage.

    How is that view from the moral high ground?

    Incidentally Parris is a wanker, that has nothing to do with him being gay, I never talk to anybody who has the slightest problem with gays apart from gays.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    Some Olympic gold medal hopefuls will be shortly getting a call if they fancy studying land management at Oxford after the Rio Olympics.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Obviously, given my comments on the last thread, I agree with this piece.

    One should note that this referendum campaign is Boris's chance to make his case to be Prime Minister. He must know this and he must be assumed to be giving it his best shot. I am betting on the assumption MPs won't be impressed.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113
    And the natural order of things is restored. :)
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,907
    edited March 2016
    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall my early disdain for Boris: when he was making his mind up I wanted him in LEAVE, on the grounds that I'd rather lose without him than win with him. So I find myself oddly at the head of the curve when it comes to Boris-loathing: for a congenital late-adopter who still had a Nokia phone until 2013/4, it's an odd experience. But enough about me, let's talk about the Conservative Russell Brand.

    Look at his life story: whether it's jobs or relationships, he starts something, gets bored, engineers a reason to leave, b*****s off, start's something new, rinse and repeat. He's let down everybody in his life, personal and professional, and bolted from every commitment. This is not somebody you would trust with the Premiership: frankly he's too irresponsible to be a junior minister.

    But don't just take my word for it. For those of you who wish to read the non-paywalled text of Parris's attack piece, see here. For the 2013 documentary on Boris, see here

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    [EDIT: fix tags]
    At last I get to read Parris's article so thanks. Though it paints a picture of a pretty grim human being I doubt it'll put off many of the Tory faithful who I doubt have much more affection for gays than Boris has.

    For a real character assassination that hit's the parts Matthew Parris doesn't reach try this morning's effort by Nick Cohen.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,113

    "Tank-topped bum boys".

    I'd never heard that before and laughed out loud. That's the great thing about modern conservatives, they elect homophobic MPs then turn their guns on anybody homophobic or anti gay marriage.

    How is that view from the moral high ground?

    Incidentally Parris is a wanker, that has nothing to do with him being gay, I never talk to anybody who has the slightest problem with gays apart from gays.

    Is it something that frequently comes up in conversation with non-gays?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,209

    Some Olympic gold medal hopefuls will be shortly getting a call if they fancy studying land management at Oxford after the Rio Olympics.

    See Thorsten Engelmann for Cambridge in 2007...
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,030

    ydoethur said:

    (As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.)

    Isn't that rather unfair? Sh*t serves many useful purposes... :wink:
    I see Dawkins on atheism in a similar manner to Greer or Harman (*) on feminism: they pretend to speak for all atheists or feminists, and get a great deal of money/influence from their views. Those views therefore they slowly become more extreme and stupid.

    In the meantime, the majority of atheists and feminists I talk to are much more moderate. In fact, it's a bit like religious extremists versus the 'ordinary' religious person.

    But this is well off-topic ...

    (*) Though I don't believe Harman is a feminist, despite any t-shirt she may wear.
    Off topic perhaps but no less accurate for that.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,097
    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    "Tank-topped bum boys".

    I'd never heard that before and laughed out loud. That's the great thing about modern conservatives, they elect homophobic MPs then turn their guns on anybody homophobic or anti gay marriage.

    How is that view from the moral high ground?

    Incidentally Parris is a wanker, that has nothing to do with him being gay, I never talk to anybody who has the slightest problem with gays apart from gays.

    Is it something that frequently comes up in conversation with non-gays?
    Nope. I was with two pals at their house recently, they're gay, they hate what they call "soapbox queers".

    As a heterosexual I never hear people talk about gays, everybody I've ever spoken to about gay marriage couldn't care less. Apart from my MP, he voted against it.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,030
    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
  • Options
    I wonder how Cameron and his Project Fear would stand up to forensic analysis by this committee ...
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a libertarian friend who said he would ban religion, I called him an abolitionist and he got most upset. Believe in what you want, just don't be surprised of others think you're bonkers.

    btw Hitchens was very entertaining but could be quite rude.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Sorry for the late replies!

    @kle4 Only if he's up against Osborne, then I think Corbyn may stand a chance. But I'd much prefer Labour winning a GE with another leader. Corbyn seems to find being a half-decent opposition leader difficult, let alone actually being PM!

    @Wanderer Yes, they won (although by the way some are talking you'd think they won the World Cup and the Euros). On Corbyn's base, one caveat is how many of those are £3 people who simply signed up, and how many are actually a part of the core base of the party?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838


    As an aside from recent conversations on here, it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and respect religions and the religious. Dawkins and his ilk are sh*ts.

    When they had power the religious showed no respect for atheists. Heck, they still don't in less secular societies.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,038
    Roger said:

    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall my early disdain for Boris: when he was making his mind up I wanted him in LEAVE, on the grounds that I'd rather lose without him than win with him. So I find myself oddly at the head of the curve when it comes to Boris-loathing: for a congenital late-adopter who still had a Nokia phone until 2013/4, it's an odd experience. But enough about me, let's talk about the Conservative Russell Brand.

    Look at his life story: whether it's jobs or relationships, he starts something, gets bored, engineers a reason to leave, b*****s off, start's something new, rinse and repeat. He's let down everybody in his life, personal and professional, and bolted from every commitment. This is not somebody you would trust with the Premiership: frankly he's too irresponsible to be a junior minister.

    But don't just take my word for it. For those of you who wish to read the non-paywalled text of Parris's attack piece, see here. For the 2013 documentary on Boris, see here

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    [EDIT: fix tags]
    At last I get to read Parris's article so thanks. Though it paints a picture of a pretty grim human being I doubt it'll put off many of the Tory faithful who I doubt have much more affection for gays than Boris has.

    For a real character assassination that hit's the parts Matthew Parris doesn't reach try this morning's effort by Nick Cohen.
    Thank you for that. So that's Parris's piece here, the 2013 documentary here, the Cohen piece here
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,030

    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a libertarian friend who said he would ban religion, I called him an abolitionist and he got most upset. Believe in what you want, just don't be surprised of others think you're bonkers.

    btw Hitchens was very entertaining but could be quite rude.
    I certainly wouldn't ban religion. But I would remove a lot of the rights and privileges they enjoy both legally and politically.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Roger said:

    viewcode said:

    Some of you may recall my early disdain for Boris: when he was making his mind up I wanted him in LEAVE, on the grounds that I'd rather lose without him than win with him. So I find myself oddly at the head of the curve when it comes to Boris-loathing: for a congenital late-adopter who still had a Nokia phone until 2013/4, it's an odd experience. But enough about me, let's talk about the Conservative Russell Brand.

    Look at his life story: whether it's jobs or relationships, he starts something, gets bored, engineers a reason to leave, b*****s off, start's something new, rinse and repeat. He's let down everybody in his life, personal and professional, and bolted from every commitment. This is not somebody you would trust with the Premiership: frankly he's too irresponsible to be a junior minister.

    But don't just take my word for it. For those of you who wish to read the non-paywalled text of Parris's attack piece, see here. For the 2013 documentary on Boris, see here

    That's clearly why Parris launched a massive salvo at him and Leave are neck and in the polls.

    [EDIT: fix tags]
    At last I get to read Parris's article so thanks. Though it paints a picture of a pretty grim human being I doubt it'll put off many of the Tory faithful who I doubt have much more affection for gays than Boris has.

    For a real character assassination that hit's the parts Matthew Parris doesn't reach try this morning's effort by Nick Cohen.
    "Affection for gays". Mmmmmh.

    How about taking everybody at face value and not making preferences based on who they go to bed with?

    Parris is a tosser, so are lots of heterosexuals, blacks, muslims and Mormons.

    I appreciate its easier to lump together groups of people but try treating everyone individually and deal with the message not the messenger.

    Except Arsenal fans of course.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a libertarian friend who said he would ban religion, I called him an abolitionist and he got most upset. Believe in what you want, just don't be surprised of others think you're bonkers.

    btw Hitchens was very entertaining but could be quite rude.
    I certainly wouldn't ban religion. But I would remove a lot of the rights and privileges they enjoy both legally and politically.
    Now we're talking Mr T.

    Let's take gay marriage, mosques and consistency. One rule for one......
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,005
    I've never thought of Boris Johnson as being especially anti-gay.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,097

    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a libertarian friend who said he would ban religion, I called him an abolitionist and he got most upset. Believe in what you want, just don't be surprised of others think you're bonkers.

    btw Hitchens was very entertaining but could be quite rude.
    I certainly wouldn't ban religion. But I would remove a lot of the rights and privileges they enjoy both legally and politically.
    Now we're talking Mr T.

    Let's take gay marriage, mosques and consistency. One rule for one......
    Surely mosques, churches, synagogues and the like should be allowed to marry who they like? It's their ceremony and they get to choose.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,298
    Sean_F said:

    I've never thought of Boris Johnson as being especially anti-gay.

    Just anti-scouser ;-)
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @JJ, I regard Dawkins much as I would any preacher. His goal is to convert others to his cause. Why am evangelical atheist should be any more obnoxious than an evangelical Christian is unclear to me. It seems, perhaps, that atheists are expected to be apologetic.

    Thing is that the late great Christopher Hitchin was also a militant atheist who wasn't afraid to upset people. The difference is that he could be extremely funny and erudite whilst he was doing it. Dawkins, for all his undoubtedly scientific ability is just a bit of a tit.
    I had an interesting conversation with a libertarian friend who said he would ban religion, I called him an abolitionist and he got most upset. Believe in what you want, just don't be surprised of others think you're bonkers.

    btw Hitchens was very entertaining but could be quite rude.
    I certainly wouldn't ban religion. But I would remove a lot of the rights and privileges they enjoy both legally and politically.
    Now we're talking Mr T.

    Let's take gay marriage, mosques and consistency. One rule for one......
    Surely mosques, churches, synagogues and the like should be allowed to marry who they like? It's their ceremony and they get to choose.
    Totally agree.
This discussion has been closed.