Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
was he or was he not termed a "Terrorist" or are you Tory pom pom girls now down to having categories of good "Terrorists" versus bad "Terrorists" , you half witted dunderheid.
On topic, David Cameron looks more vulnerable to a challenge this year than Jeremy Corbyn. Jeremy Corbyn remains rock solid in his power base.
Which shows that the tory party base is every bit as mad as the Labour party base - as you wisely said in the previous thread. Having spent 6 months laughing themselves silly at labours lefty nutjobs, we see tory teaparty nutjobs falling over themselves to do the same thing.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Yep, the British electorate's terrorists are indeed John McDonnell's (and Jeremy Corbyn's) freedom fighters. Can you see a slight problem with that?
On topic, I agree with a lot of what the thread header says, but I have to also agree with others that dismissing McDonnell's (and Corbyn's) past comments on the IRA et al is rather complacent. Fair or unfair, it is a big deal for Joe Public, including many Labour voters. People don't think Corbyn is deliberately evil, but they do think he would be dangerously naive with enemies if he ever got into power: the perception is that he'd try to link hands with the likes of ISIS and sing "Kumbaya", which they would in turn then use as an opening to attack us.
That said, I agree that the PLP are going to have to be very careful with when they move against Corbyn, both in terms of the timing (a lot of mainstream members, even if they have big doubts about Corbyn's potential to cut through with the public, still want him to be given a fair wind to see if he can improve) and in terms of who they pick as the candidate to replace him (a hardcore neo-Blairite like Chuka Umunna, Liz Kendall or Rachel Reeves would get slaughtered).
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I agree. Corbyn isn't a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. It's just a lazy shorthand for someone on the left whose answer to everything isn't to wave a Union Jack. This 'my country right or wrong' would have seen us lynching Mandela arming Reagans Contra's and fighting for the odious Pinocet
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
So if loss of life is not IS's primary aim of these attacks then they aren't terrorists?
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I agree. Corbyn isn't a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. It's just a lazy shorthand for someone on the left whose answer to everything isn't to wave a Union Jack. This 'my country right or wrong' would have seen us lynching Mandela arming Reagans Contra's and fighting for the odious Pinocet
whereas instead the ethical left just slaughtered half a million Iraqis.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
But in every case, one of those people will be right and the other will be wrong. Nelson Mandela never targeted civilians. The IRA did.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
The fact is that most people living in Northern Ireland wanted (and want) to remain a part of the UK. McDonnell expressed loud and frequent support for an organisation that was happy to kill and maim in order to get them to change their minds.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
But the true terrorists in South Africa were the Apartheid Government member imposing their will on the country.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
But the true terrorists in South Africa were the Apartheid Government member imposing their will on the country.
no, they werent. They were many things but not terrorists.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I agree. Corbyn isn't a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. It's just a lazy shorthand for someone on the left whose answer to everything isn't to wave a Union Jack. This 'my country right or wrong' would have seen us lynching Mandela arming Reagans Contra's and fighting for the odious Pinocet
whereas instead the ethical left just slaughtered half a million Iraqis.
I don't think many would describe Tony as either ethical or left
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
But in every case, one of those people will be right and the other will be wrong. Nelson Mandela never targeted civilians. The IRA did.
Quite. Mcdonell didnt just support a united Ireland, he supported the people trying to create a united Ireland through terrorism.
That mentality is there today also, but it now ties around Palestine, total catnip to the labour left. Corbyn etc claim they just want to hear the argument, to act as enablers of peace, but it's only ever one side they want to hear.
I dont think someone like Corbyn actually wants to see anyone commit acts of violence against anyone, but seems naive to think that of others.
Thanks for the comments, the polite tone of which is appreciated! To respond:
On the IRA, I see them as criminal lunatics - killing people in order to shift a border within the EU, how nuts is that? They are, however, retired criminal lunatics who have been welcomed by all parties into power-sharing for the last decade. So they don't have quite the same sting in most people's minds as, say, ISIS. The comment about "everyone says a few odd things" was made by a councillor who is generally seen as on the right of the party.
That said, my main point was not to suggest that McDonnell would be a slam-dunk successor - too early to say. More that the general tendency to divide the membership neatly into Corbynites and right-wingers is fundamentally mistaken. There is a largish section who disagree with me on "get the politics you want first" and simply want to win. That is IMO the dominant faction in the PLP, who after all depend on it for their jobs. That's why I don't see a coup excluding Corbyn from the ballot happening - MPs who endorsed it would find that 80% of their membership were appalled, so it would put reselection at risk even where the seat itself was safe.
If Corbyn lost an election or decided to retire, everyone would have a fresh think. Lots of Corbynites would like to win, and lots of non-Corbynites would be perfectly willing to look at a left-wing candidate. I take the point that a potential centre ground is the obvious place to look for the winning margin, but the voters don't really fit neatly on a left-right spectrum thse days either. That's why the LibDems are not bidding for the "middle" position as they try to recover - they're not sure there are now many people actually there. My guess is that any candidate who presented themselves as both seriously left-wing and electable would get it. If there were no such candidate, it would simply go to the most left-wing candidate.
Ch4 suggesting that the same guy suspected to be behind making suicide vests for Paris is the one guy who didn't blow himself up today. The guy in white on the leaked photo.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I agree. Corbyn isn't a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. It's just a lazy shorthand for someone on the left whose answer to everything isn't to wave a Union Jack. This 'my country right or wrong' would have seen us lynching Mandela arming Reagans Contra's and fighting for the odious Pinocet
whereas instead the ethical left just slaughtered half a million Iraqis.
I don't think many would describe Tony as either ethical or left
Ch4 suggesting that the same guy suspected to be behind making suicide vests for Paris is the one guy who didn't blow himself up today. The guy in white on the leaked photo.
But nothing to do with the EU, Nothing to do with Schengen enabling these people to travel between Brussels and Paris so easily. Nothing at all. Nothing nothing nothing. To aver otherwise, by pointing out the actual facts, is distasteful.
The telling the term "integration vacuum"....watch out for it more and more...perfect PC phase.
Imagine if Leave even had a functioning campaign....
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
Repetition on the scale you use it might make readers think you have OCD.
Translation: "That's a very catchy slogan, Sunil. I'm surprised the official "Leave" campaigns haven't adopted it".
There was a director of TV commercials called Tony Kaye who spent six months marching up and down outside Saatchis with a sandwich board saying 'Tony Kaye the Best British Director since Hitchcock'. Eventually they gave him a job and he was!! He won more awards than any other commercials director. The moral of the story......I'm not sure
Ch4 suggesting that the same guy suspected to be behind making suicide vests for Paris is the one guy who didn't blow himself up today. The guy in white on the leaked photo.
Why would he turn up at the airport? A live, anonymous bomb maker is more useful than one picked up on CCTV.
I see that The Guardian is spouting the lone wolf attack line again.
Ch4 suggesting that the same guy suspected to be behind making suicide vests for Paris is the one guy who didn't blow himself up today. The guy in white on the leaked photo.
Why would he turn up at the airport? A live, anonymous bomb maker is more useful than one picked up on CCTV.
I see that The Guardian is spouting the lone wolf attack line again.
It might sound a bit daft but quite possibly he was acting as technical support, and the other suicide vest might have been a spare in case they had problems.
To fight terrorism we need social workers as much as soldiers
Exactly you do you propose to use soldiers in these circumstances? Social workers have a much better chance of re-educating those sad souls who see the extremes of religion as a good place to be.
'Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.'
Oh really. I wonder who was being 'freed' as a result of Jean McConville, a mother of seven, being beaten and murdered and her body buried on a beach. And then by the burial place being concealed for thirty years?
Or by the murder of 15-year old Bernard Teggart, a lad with a mental age of eight?
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
I agree. Corbyn isn't a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. It's just a lazy shorthand for someone on the left whose answer to everything isn't to wave a Union Jack. This 'my country right or wrong' would have seen us lynching Mandela arming Reagans Contra's and fighting for the odious Pinocet
whereas instead the ethical left just slaughtered half a million Iraqis.
I don't think many would describe Tony as either ethical or left
You voted for him.
Three times !
I voted Labour in '97; the Tory candidate was so appalling that I felt a duty to vote for the candidate most likely to beat him. I voted Labour again in '01 and '05; in a different consituency; the Labour candidate had, IMHO, been an outstanding MP (He was elected in '97 and held the seat until '05)
If our effeminate political class still lacks the cojones to limit Islamic migration, can this mass slaughter at least be the moment we stop giving second chances to Islamic groups showing extremism? Muslim schools that get told off by Ofsted for this stuff never get shut down. The same thing applies to Islamic societies throughout our prisons and universities. Its about time the wets in Westminster start putting the safety of the nation ahead of the feelings of a violent, backwards religion.
To fight terrorism we need social workers as much as soldiers
You're aware that it's by the Italian Prime Minister? I don't mean that makes it immune from criticism, but it sounded as though you thought it was by some random journalist.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Try as hard as you like, you'll never persuade the British voters that the IRA are freedom fighters.
Apparently sharing Tin Tin on social media is a way of showing support....not sure that is the best example, given Tin Tin was always assisted by Dupont and Dupond...
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Ch4 suggesting that the same guy suspected to be behind making suicide vests for Paris is the one guy who didn't blow himself up today. The guy in white on the leaked photo.
But nothing to do with the EU, Nothing to do with Schengen enabling these people to travel between Brussels and Paris so easily. Nothing at all. Nothing nothing nothing. To aver otherwise, by pointing out the actual facts, is distasteful.
No, it's just stupid. If someone wants to go from France to Belgium in order to kill people there are multiple ways of doing it easily enough. You can walk from France into Switzerland without showing your passport. I have done it.
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
Try as hard as you like, you'll never persuade the British voters that the IRA are freedom fighters.
I'm not sure, there's a whole generation now that doesn't remember the IRA and is starting to believe in a mythology rather than going from memory.
At work the other day a colleague found a backpack left randomly outside the building and he brought it in for safe keeping. I half-joked that "it's not ticking is it?" Which ultimately led to a conversation that revealed he was born in 97 and didn't know much if anything about the IRA. Not sure what that says about our education system.
Apparently sharing Tin Tin on social media is a way of showing support....not sure that is the best example, given Tin Tin was always assisted by Dupont and Dupond...
Tintin? I thought that Tintin was seen as horribly racist and dated, not the sort of thing you would expect to be chosen for showing solidarity.
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Apparently sharing Tin Tin on social media is a way of showing support....not sure that is the best example, given Tin Tin was always assisted by Dupont and Dupond...
Tintin? I thought that Tintin was seen as horribly racist and dated, not the sort of thing you would expect to be chosen for showing solidarity.
Oh yes, that whole "in the Congo" one. Yeah, but we are following the same nonsense as Charlie Hebdo....its a horrid nasty rag....Je Suis Charlie...a year later...nasty rag....
OT. Sunil. After posting you that British Rail ad I forgot to switch off and some minutes later I heard Jimmy Savile's fudgy voice. If you're interested it's about the history of BR advertising
Do you think recent Conservative tribulations makes Corbyn's position any more at risk? If the Conservative Party (post-referendum) indulges in a civil war, Labour (with a better leader) could be in a very good position.
Thanks! I think it's been pretty conclusively proven that I do not understand the mindset of the current Labour Party membership!
If the party wanted to win an election, it should have deposed it's last two leaders. It didn't. So whether it'll depose another leader who is even more unlikely to win an election is anyone's guess.
I expect Nick is right and that even with all engines on fire, the captain clearly incompetent, the co-pilot talking on the loudspeaker about the IRA and Mao while the stewards looking either manic, terrified or depressed, the prevailing mood on the Labour plane is that it'll all turn out alright, so best not disturb anything.
When the term pragmatist can be applied to someone who shrugs off McDonnell's long-term, vocal support for the IRA as not being important, you know it's not you, it's them. Not that this helps. It's frustrating that such a rotten government has essentially been given free rein to do whatever it pleases by Labour party members. But it is where we are.
In 10 years time, the "terrorists" will be part of the Irish government. Another "terrorist" , someone called Nelson Mandela had more Head of States or Governments than I can remember attend his funeral. Many people genuinely felt for him.
Someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter.
And tell me when Mandela launched a campaign of terrorism in which loss of life was the primary concern?
But the true terrorists in South Africa were the Apartheid Government member imposing their will on the country.
no, they werent. They were many things but not terrorists.
To fight terrorism we need social workers as much as soldiers
You're aware that it's by the Italian Prime Minister?
Your point being? Does his position give him authority not to be absurd and if so did you think that under Berlusconi?
Strange that you deleted the second part of Nick Palmer's response ("I don't mean that makes it immune from criticism, but it sounded as though you thought it was by some random journalist.") only to pose the very question that the bit you deleted answered.
It seems Belgian security services have ID'd their 3rd attacker at the airport. They have a car that they are trying to locate, and some people have been lifted in Germany.
They may also want to take a look at the employee and contractor list at the airport though no doubt they will.
Watch this space.
Just as a note, anyone who forgotten who the IRA are over there will get due notice soon enough. Those lads have been looking to carry out some kind of mainland strike for a while now.
To fight terrorism we need social workers as much as soldiers
You're aware that it's by the Italian Prime Minister?
Your point being? Does his position give him authority not to be absurd and if so did you think that under Berlusconi?
Strange that you deleted the second part of Nick Palmer's response ("I don't mean that makes it immune from criticism, but it sounded as though you thought it was by some random journalist.") only to pose the very question that the bit you deleted answered.
There's a hint about that in Nick Palmer's post:
NickPalmer Posts: 6,495 7:53PM edited 7:55PM
While my reply was posted at 7:55PM. I didn't delete anything, I quoted everything that was there when I quoted it. I'm not psychic and couldn't know he'd edit in that extra bit.
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Spoken like a true out of touch metro elitist.
Brussels seems rotten to the core.
I've never been a fan of Brussels - it's a curiously schizophrenic place: an insignificant mid-sized European city, except that both NATO and the EU are based there, which makes it the 'capital of Europe'.
Imagine if Leave even had a functioning campaign....
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
Repetition on the scale you use it might make readers think you have OCD.
Translation: "That's a very catchy slogan, Sunil. I'm surprised the official "Leave" campaigns haven't adopted it".
There was a director of TV commercials called Tony Kaye who spent six months marching up and down outside Saatchis with a sandwich board saying 'Tony Kaye the Best British Director since Hitchcock'. Eventually they gave him a job and he was!! He won more awards than any other commercials director. The moral of the story......I'm not sure
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyTgEpVttBE
(Specially for you)
The moral of his story, is don't believe your own hype.
Kaye lost the plot on his first Hollywood feature, and dropped out.
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Spoken like a true out of touch metro elitist.
Brussels seems rotten to the core.
I've never been a fan of Brussels - it's a curiously schizophrenic place: an insignificant mid-sized European city, except that both NATO and the EU are based there, which makes it the 'capital of Europe'.
Billionaire businessman Donald Trump and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz have each added a delegate at the GOP caucus in American Samoa.
Republicans in the U.S. territory elected six delegates at their caucus on Tuesday. They have a total nine delegates, including the territory's three Republican National Committee members.
The delegates are "unbound," meaning they are free to support the candidate of their choice. Party chairman Abe Utu Malae says in an email that two of the delegates have endorsed candidates — one for Trump and one for Cruz.
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Spoken like a true out of touch metro elitist.
Brussels seems rotten to the core.
I've never been a fan of Brussels - it's a curiously schizophrenic place: an insignificant mid-sized European city, except that both NATO and the EU are based there, which makes it the 'capital of Europe'.
Ah, but the beer...
Luckily you don't have to go there to drink it.....
Interesting post from Nick. I also voted for JC, and am also in the minority amongst my colleagues on the CLP exec. Our membership has almost doubled since the election - most of the new members aren't very active but those who are have made interesting contributions.
Wearing three hats in the party in terms of elected officer roles (as well as being a town Councillor) brings me into contact with a broad cross-spectrum of members. Most are content to respect the overwhelming majority support given to Corbyn - and have seen improvement as time goes on.
A PLP coup? Unlikely. It wouldn't work, the plotters would be gone fairly quickly (a campaign to deselct would be inevitable) and we'd be back where we are. Not that I think they need a coup - does Jeremy really want to be leader? He'll step aside in 2018 once McDonnell or someone like Lisa Nandy are ready
Imagine if Leave even had a functioning campaign....
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
Repetition on the scale you use it might make readers think you have OCD.
Translation: "That's a very catchy slogan, Sunil. I'm surprised the official "Leave" campaigns haven't adopted it".
There was a director of TV commercials called Tony Kaye who spent six months marching up and down outside Saatchis with a sandwich board saying 'Tony Kaye the Best British Director since Hitchcock'. Eventually they gave him a job and he was!! He won more awards than any other commercials director. The moral of the story......I'm not sure
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyTgEpVttBE
(Specially for you)
The moral of his story, is don't believe your own hype.
Kaye lost the plot on his first Hollywood feature, and dropped out.
Amazingly enough his first feature 'American History X' despite the well publicized problems and him being bonkers still sits at 33 on IMDB's best films ever
Perhaps don't know actually means don't know, or if the usual telephone behaviour holds - they are Leave, but a bit worried people might think they are a wee bit UKippy. Just like the GE.
Billionaire businessman Donald Trump and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz have each added a delegate at the GOP caucus in American Samoa.
Republicans in the U.S. territory elected six delegates at their caucus on Tuesday. They have a total nine delegates, including the territory's three Republican National Committee members.
The delegates are "unbound," meaning they are free to support the candidate of their choice. Party chairman Abe Utu Malae says in an email that two of the delegates have endorsed candidates — one for Trump and one for Cruz.
But perhaps the mood is changing. The Guardian has had to close comments after 2000 people called her a fucking moron.
Why they published it at all beggars belief. It's just a long wail of "why can't we all just be *reasonable*?"; half-understanding that they're not and half refusing to accept it because the implications of doing so would undermine every conclusion she's already come to. The mental dissonance then just runs down the piece like fingernails on a blackboard.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
The ingredient you forgot to mention is Islam. Without that these places might have the odd riot, but you would not get mass slaughter.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
The ingredient you forgot to mention is Islam. Without that these places might have the odd riot, but you would not get mass slaughter.
Yes, I forgot to say they are islamic as well. Well spotted
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
Welcome to the future of the Western World.
I realized after I posted it that it sounded a bit like Yorkshire
On Ch4, journalist just said that people in Belgium used to think terrorist attacks would never happen here because there was a "understanding" between the authorities and the known Jahadi's....that neither would bother each other.
Spoken like a true out of touch metro elitist.
Brussels seems rotten to the core.
I've never been a fan of Brussels - it's a curiously schizophrenic place: an insignificant mid-sized European city, except that both NATO and the EU are based there, which makes it the 'capital of Europe'.
Ah, but the beer...
Luckily you don't have to go there to drink it.....
I've had several trips over the years, although not for a while. I like the place, especially the olde worlde flemish town grand place bits.
The railway station is miserable though. On a par with the old new street.
There does seem to be trouble sprouting up everywhere.
Take a city with ghettos where the population has not assimilated due to 'diversity and multiculturalism', combine that with high youth employment, poverty, lack of hope, feeling like second class citizens, and you have a great foundation.
Welcome to the future of the Western World.
That's the present Sean. In the future we will be stalked through a radioactive wasteland by self-aware robots.
Comments
Having spent 6 months laughing themselves silly at labours lefty nutjobs, we see tory teaparty nutjobs falling over themselves to do the same thing.
That said, I agree that the PLP are going to have to be very careful with when they move against Corbyn, both in terms of the timing (a lot of mainstream members, even if they have big doubts about Corbyn's potential to cut through with the public, still want him to be given a fair wind to see if he can improve) and in terms of who they pick as the candidate to replace him (a hardcore neo-Blairite like Chuka Umunna, Liz Kendall or Rachel Reeves would get slaughtered).
And you have my ARSE4US to look forward to after the EU referendum ....
http://www.irishracing.com/horse?prt=50227 "Who gives a Donald"
Looks like Reince Priebus is disqualifying John Yob and his merry men !
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/virgin-islands-declares-gop-delegates-ineligible/article/2586526
Uncommited -6
Cruz + 1
Trump + 1
Rubio + 2
(Other) uncommitted +2
That mentality is there today also, but it now ties around Palestine, total catnip to the labour left. Corbyn etc claim they just want to hear the argument, to act as enablers of peace, but it's only ever one side they want to hear.
I dont think someone like Corbyn actually wants to see anyone commit acts of violence against anyone, but seems naive to think that of others.
On the IRA, I see them as criminal lunatics - killing people in order to shift a border within the EU, how nuts is that? They are, however, retired criminal lunatics who have been welcomed by all parties into power-sharing for the last decade. So they don't have quite the same sting in most people's minds as, say, ISIS. The comment about "everyone says a few odd things" was made by a councillor who is generally seen as on the right of the party.
That said, my main point was not to suggest that McDonnell would be a slam-dunk successor - too early to say. More that the general tendency to divide the membership neatly into Corbynites and right-wingers is fundamentally mistaken. There is a largish section who disagree with me on "get the politics you want first" and simply want to win. That is IMO the dominant faction in the PLP, who after all depend on it for their jobs. That's why I don't see a coup excluding Corbyn from the ballot happening - MPs who endorsed it would find that 80% of their membership were appalled, so it would put reselection at risk even where the seat itself was safe.
If Corbyn lost an election or decided to retire, everyone would have a fresh think. Lots of Corbynites would like to win, and lots of non-Corbynites would be perfectly willing to look at a left-wing candidate. I take the point that a potential centre ground is the obvious place to look for the winning margin, but the voters don't really fit neatly on a left-right spectrum thse days either. That's why the LibDems are not bidding for the "middle" position as they try to recover - they're not sure there are now many people actually there. My guess is that any candidate who presented themselves as both seriously left-wing and electable would get it. If there were no such candidate, it would simply go to the most left-wing candidate.
Three times !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyTgEpVttBE
(Specially for you)
I see that The Guardian is spouting the lone wolf attack line again.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/22/what-are-chances-brussels-style-attack-isis-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw
Though wolves are social animals ready to hunt in packs.
How you like them apples?
The Guardian is surpassing itself today:
To fight terrorism we need social workers as much as soldiers
I am mildly surprised
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/22/hammond-criticises-judge-for-stripping-diplomatic-immunity-from-saudi-billionaire
Oh really. I wonder who was being 'freed' as a result of Jean McConville, a mother of seven, being beaten and murdered and her body buried on a beach. And then by the burial place being concealed for thirty years?
Or by the murder of 15-year old Bernard Teggart, a lad with a mental age of eight?
Tw*t.
I started off assuming that Remain would win 2:1 and that I would vote Remain.
Now it may be bias because I've changed my mind but the Remain campaign right now is quite crap and Leave could realistically win.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/
But, if Leave do win, then it will seem inevitable with hindsight. The old order appears immoveable, until it moves.
Spoken like a true out of touch metro elitist.
At work the other day a colleague found a backpack left randomly outside the building and he brought it in for safe keeping. I half-joked that "it's not ticking is it?" Which ultimately led to a conversation that revealed he was born in 97 and didn't know much if anything about the IRA. Not sure what that says about our education system.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_de_Kock
Certainly meets the criteria for terrorism in my book, possibly including the murder of Olaf Palme in Sweden.
They may also want to take a look at the employee and contractor list at the airport though no doubt they will.
Watch this space.
Just as a note, anyone who forgotten who the IRA are over there will get due notice soon enough. Those lads have been looking to carry out some kind of mainland strike for a while now.
NickPalmer Posts: 6,495
7:53PM edited 7:55PM
While my reply was posted at 7:55PM. I didn't delete anything, I quoted everything that was there when I quoted it. I'm not psychic and couldn't know he'd edit in that extra bit.
Kaye lost the plot on his first Hollywood feature, and dropped out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3665724/I-did-abominable-things.html
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2002/oct/25/artsfeatures.advertising
Republicans in the U.S. territory elected six delegates at their caucus on Tuesday. They have a total nine delegates, including the territory's three Republican National Committee members.
The delegates are "unbound," meaning they are free to support the candidate of their choice. Party chairman Abe Utu Malae says in an email that two of the delegates have endorsed candidates — one for Trump and one for Cruz.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-22/trump-s-republican-turnout-boost-extends-to-battleground-states
The Trump turnout surge in more detail, if this carries into the general...
Wearing three hats in the party in terms of elected officer roles (as well as being a town Councillor) brings me into contact with a broad cross-spectrum of members. Most are content to respect the overwhelming majority support given to Corbyn - and have seen improvement as time goes on.
A PLP coup? Unlikely. It wouldn't work, the plotters would be gone fairly quickly (a campaign to deselct would be inevitable) and we'd be back where we are. Not that I think they need a coup - does Jeremy really want to be leader? He'll step aside in 2018 once McDonnell or someone like Lisa Nandy are ready
Amazingly enough his first feature 'American History X' despite the well publicized problems and him being bonkers still sits at 33 on IMDB's best films ever
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120586/
Belgium is a sick society. No wonder so many of the Flemish want out
If it's a massive turnout then Remain win handily
If it's very low then Leave win
In between the difference between Lean and Remain rides a rollercoaster in my mind.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3504303/Tony-Blair-says-flabby-liberalism-helping-terrorists-elite-feel-guilty-extremists.html
Doesn't he look ill?
The railway station is miserable though. On a par with the old new street.