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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not long until F1 resumes.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249

    DavidL said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    Hard facts and figures are very hard to come by on this since most comparisons are comparing apples and pears. What the government has been doing is replacing the old disability allowance with the PIPs. DLA was paid to a surprising number of people, over 640,000. It paid for subsidised cars etc. Many, such as a good friend of mine, who received it were in full time work.

    It is much harder to get a PIP than it used to be to get DLA and large numbers of people with relatively minor disabilities will lose out. On the other hand the PIPs that are paid are more generous than DLA was and it does appear to be true that in the category of these eligible the money will be more than ever before. The reduction in the number of claimants, however, means that there is a saving for the government compared to the old system.

    The major personal tax reductions that are going through were not new in the budget but are the increase in the PA. Those on more than £100K continue to lose that entitlement as their PA is reduced to zero so the tax cuts are once again mainly for the lower paid. The increase in the allowance for higher rate tax has not been kept up with inflation in recent years so he has reduced the element of fiscal drag there.
    There is plenty of scope to look at disability benefits, as there are curious anomalies. The problem as ever with welfare reforms is that it is hard to target the bludgers without penalising some in genuine hardship. People who work the system are often very good at working the system.
    I can't disagree with that. There is also a major legacy issue in that from the 80s onwards governments of both stripes turned a blind eye to the dumping of large numbers of people onto disability to hide the true level of unemployment. This government has no need to do that and is seeking to get large numbers of people on disability either back into work or onto conventional benefits. Many of those who are losing DLA are in that category.

    Doesn't mean that there are not genuine hardship cases for the reasons you state however.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Is it just me or has the 'post comment' button changed to an all curly one?

    You were obviously drinking too much last night
    I was just on the orange squash last night!
    Sugar high!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    JackW said:

    I am deeply disturbed ....

    Enough said .... :smile:

    Oi, watch it Jacobite!
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    With regards to sugar taxation.

    How long before biscuits, crisps, chocolate?

    Food tax.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    chestnut said:

    With regards to sugar taxation.

    How long before biscuits, crisps, chocolate?

    Food tax.

    First they came for the fizzy drinks.....

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Sugary drinks was one of a range of anti-obesity taxes they were researching last summer.

    Higher parking charges, higher petrol charges etc
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    edited March 2016
    Meantime over in our teutonic cousins, Angie is having a hard time as the CSU refuse to rule out standing across Germany and not just in Bavaria. This is primarily as a result of the immigrationn crisis where Bavaria is in the frontline and not helped by the majority of AfD voters in the recent regionals saying they would consider voting CSU instead.

    It's probably posturing but Frau Merkel is running out of wriggle room.


    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/fluechtlingskrise-seehofer-keine-garantie-fuer-verzicht-auf-bundesweite-csu-14129576.html
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    edited March 2016
    chestnut said:

    Sugary drinks was one of a range of anti-obesity taxes they were researching last summer.

    Higher parking charges, higher petrol charges etc

    Why are all schools not doing the daily mile? Its free, popular and seems to reduce childhood obesity to zero.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-33006631
  • Perhaps there could be an earmarked (for the NHS) obesity tax based on one's annual "body-MOT" - it would, at least, be a tax which fell on the broadest buttocks.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.

  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    DavidL said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.


    The major personal tax reductions that are going through were not new in the budget but are the increase in the PA. Those on more than £100K continue to lose that entitlement as their PA is reduced to zero so the tax cuts are once again mainly for the lower paid. The increase in the allowance for higher rate tax has not been kept up with inflation in recent years so he has reduced the element of fiscal drag there.
    Not true. The higher rate tax threshold change is worth £400 and the increase in personal allowance is only worth £100. Everyone earning north of £43k will benefit from the former, which is the lions share of the tax cut.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship

    Don't union members have to vote on whether the political levy is paid?

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Perhaps there could be an earmarked (for the NHS) obesity tax based on one's annual "body-MOT" - it would, at least, be a tax which fell on the broadest buttocks.

    I fear the bankruptcy courts would be seeing rather too much of Nicholas Soames ample rump and certainly would have to be undertaken in closed session ....
  • Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship

    Don't union members have to vote on whether the political levy is paid?

    And there's an opt-out (or is it an opt-in these days?) Mind you, there's nothing to stop a libertarian from feeling abused by having to share the planet with lefties. Is there, Philip?

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html
    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    No it wouldn't because the money is coming from the company rather than the shareholders.
    Whereas the political levy is coming from the members income rather than the union.

    Totally different.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    Why? As Roger helpfully points out down thread, if you don't like the political leanings of the business you can sell the shares, and invest elsewhere. Simple, and ethical.

    Unless of course, you're really more interested in the fat returns on your shareholding, and the rest is merely posturing.

    We see this a lot here. 'I hate my fellow Brits' they cry, but any threat to live elsewhere is never carried through, as the poster doesn't want to pay higher taxes for residing in France, as an example.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship

    Don't union members have to vote on whether the political levy is paid?

    And there's an opt-out (or is it an opt-in these days?) Mind you, there's nothing to stop a libertarian from feeling abused by having to share the planet with lefties. Is there, Philip?

    I have nothing against an opt-in.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714

    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html

    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
    Hey the SFO couldn't find anyone to prosecute for foreign exchange fraud, it seems to be the season for it.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    DavidL said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.


    The major personal tax reductions that are going through were not new in the budget but are the increase in the PA. Those on more than £100K continue to lose that entitlement as their PA is reduced to zero so the tax cuts are once again mainly for the lower paid. The increase in the allowance for higher rate tax has not been kept up with inflation in recent years so he has reduced the element of fiscal drag there.
    Not true. The higher rate tax threshold change is worth £400 and the increase in personal allowance is only worth £100. Everyone earning north of £43k will benefit from the former, which is the lions share of the tax cut.
    Why are you looking at nominal figures only when tax is done by percentages?

    If there is a £100 reduction in the tax of someone earning £12k then that is a tax cut of 0.83% of their income.
    If there is a £400 reduction in the tax of someone earning £80k then that is a tax cut of 0.5% of income.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    watford30 said:

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    Why? As Roger helpfully points out down thread, if you don't like the political leanings of the business you can sell the shares, and invest elsewhere. Simple, and ethical.
    Much shareholding is via pensions or unit trusts so individual investors cannot make that choice.

    One of the reasons my ISA is self invested is so that I can choose what to invest in. No tobacco or arms companies for me, and I aim to be a net drain on the bookies thanks to this site ;-)
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    ...If they had to pay the company every year to be a shareholder...
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Much shareholding is via pensions or unit trusts so individual investors cannot make that choice.'

    But investing that way is already a choice - as the second part of your post points out.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    No it wouldn't because the money is coming from the company rather than the shareholders.
    Whereas the political levy is coming from the members income rather than the union.

    Totally different.
    The companies income belongs to the shareholders, it is a spurious distinction.

    Though political parties funding is ripe for reform, I would restrict donations to individuals who are on the electoral register. Companies and Unions cannot vote as entities, so should not be able to donate in cash or in kind either.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282

    DavidL said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.


    The major personal tax reductions that are going through were not new in the budget but are the increase in the PA. Those on more than £100K continue to lose that entitlement as their PA is reduced to zero so the tax cuts are once again mainly for the lower paid. The increase in the allowance for higher rate tax has not been kept up with inflation in recent years so he has reduced the element of fiscal drag there.
    Not true. The higher rate tax threshold change is worth £400 and the increase in personal allowance is only worth £100. Everyone earning north of £43k will benefit from the former, which is the lions share of the tax cut.
    Once again the Tory religion "to those that hath shall be given"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Poor Gerry centenary year and all that, and the White House wouldn't let him into the St Pat's Day shindig in Washington.

    I blame the Brits.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/embarrassment-for-adams-as-he-is-refused-entry-to-white-house-34547729.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    No it wouldn't because the money is coming from the company rather than the shareholders.
    Whereas the political levy is coming from the members income rather than the union.

    Totally different.
    The companies income belongs to the shareholders, it is a spurious distinction.

    Though political parties funding is ripe for reform, I would restrict donations to individuals who are on the electoral register. Companies and Unions cannot vote as entities, so should not be able to donate in cash or in kind either.
    It is not a spurious distinction, if it was then the company could give its income to its shareholders tax free. HMRC would have a lot to say about that!
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman'

    I can't imagine why that would be
  • Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    rogerh..I asked you on a previous thread but you didn't answer..Why do yo think only Tories are the ones earning above 40k...maybe you should drop the red banner and do some research.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    Squirrel!

    If you are going to misrepresent statistics at least do it with some style
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.


    This budget saw an increase in both the total and share of taxes paid by the wealthy compared to the past/last Labour government.
    This budget saw payments to the disabled increased to a record high, more than Labour ever paid.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    runnymede said:

    'Much shareholding is via pensions or unit trusts so individual investors cannot make that choice.'

    But investing that way is already a choice - as the second part of your post points out.

    A conscious opt out? Much like the present situation for Trade Unionists?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html

    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
    It's remarkable how when people discover that their postal ballots have gone missing but somehow the've already "voted", or a dozen people are registered to vote at one small flat, or a Judge presiding over an Electoral Court can find multiple cases of electoral malpractice, the Met can never find evidence of crime.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Sean_F said:

    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html

    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
    It's remarkable how when people discover that their postal ballots have gone missing but somehow the've already "voted", or a dozen people are registered to vote at one small flat, or a Judge presiding over an Electoral Court can find multiple cases of electoral malpractice, the Met can never find evidence of crime.

    The difference between the civil standard of proof and the criminal standard?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    Ozzie on R4 earlier essentially saying he do what Brussels tells him when it comes to the Tampon Tax. No surprise there.
  • Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.

    let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html

    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
    It's remarkable how when people discover that their postal ballots have gone missing but somehow the've already "voted", or a dozen people are registered to vote at one small flat, or a Judge presiding over an Electoral Court can find multiple cases of electoral malpractice, the Met can never find evidence of crime.
    The difference between the civil standard of proof and the criminal standard?

    Also I would guess a civil standard for an election court would require evidence that something wrong was done. A criminal standard for a criminal court would require evidence that something wrong was done by this particular person to a higher standard of proof.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    Sean_F said:

    WTH?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12196394/Met-Police-decision-to-drop-Tower-Hamlets-electoral-fraud-investigation-branded-utter-disgrace.html

    Petitioner Andy Erlam claims the police never had 'any serious intent' to investigate disgraced former mayor Lutfur Rahman

    Scotland Yard has dropped its investigation into electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets after finding "insufficient evidence that criminal offences had been committed".
    It's remarkable how when people discover that their postal ballots have gone missing but somehow the've already "voted", or a dozen people are registered to vote at one small flat, or a Judge presiding over an Electoral Court can find multiple cases of electoral malpractice, the Met can never find evidence of crime.
    The difference between the civil standard of proof and the criminal standard?

    Perhaps, but I suspect that their reasoning is much closer to that of South Yorkshire Police.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Freggles said:


    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist

    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

    That's sickening and I would like an apology. I have never said anything like that. Nor have I ever made such a crass insult to anyone else.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Ozzie on R4 earlier essentially saying he do what Brussels tells him when it comes to the Tampon Tax. No surprise there.

    Also having his fiscal rules compared to sadomasochism..

    LOUISE!!!!!!!!!
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282

    rogerh..I asked you on a previous thread but you didn't answer..Why do yo think only Tories are the ones earning above 40k...maybe you should drop the red banner and do some research.

    I did not make the claim that there were no Labour voters earning above the top personal allowance.My bet would be that the majority of high earners ie 40% taxpayers would be Tories rather than Labour voters.And if pointing out that the personal allowance is more favourable to the better off is waving the red flag i wonder what colour flag you are waving?
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it out.

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.

    let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

    Thats a pretty disgusting thing to say.
  • Freggles said:


    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist

    If there are more disabled now it will be due to us having an ageing population with an increasing life expectancy under the successful Tory management of the NHS. Of course twenty years into devolution life expectancy is higher in Tory England than socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

    That's sickening and I would like an apology. I have never said anything like that. Nor have I ever made such a crass insult to anyone else.
    You'll be lucky.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    roger h..What evidence do you have that supports your claim..
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?
  • I am deeply disturbed by the photos of George staring at Theresa May's cleavage in the Metro today.

    Cannot be unseen.

    There's a porn star called Teresa May. So I've been told, trust me that's something that can't be unseen if you're a political nerd.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'The difference between the civil standard of proof and the criminal standard?'

    Well you can choose to believe that if you want. I do find it remarkable the extent to which people on the left are happy to overlook or explain away this kind of thing though.

    You might think they would be rather concerned about the systemic perversion of the democratic process and people having their votes stolen.
  • Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
    Of course he was a hero, he was a Tory.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    West Virginia - 39th Street Strategies/WV Veterans

    Clinton 44 .. Sanders 31
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Paul Ryan into 30. It's happening!!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
    Apparently but check again next week.....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Cheltenham Day 2

    The only thing worse than my betting was the weather forecast. It was ****** freezing...

    Anyway, onto Day 3

    1.30 Zabana

    2.10 Un Ace

    2.50 Vautour

    3.30 Thistlecrack

    4.10 Fingal Bay

    4.50 Limini

    5.30 Cause Of Causes
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    This is refreshingly honest from a journalist who doesn't think it's his job to stop Trump.
    Of course Trump has received disproportionate air time of his rallies and speeches in a way that is unfair to his rivals. But he also subjects himself to seemingly endless rounds of interviews—including the morning shows yesterday--taking all manner of journalistic questions in a way that his opponents do not. Hillary Clinton, for instance, has gone about 100 days without holding a news conference.

    ...As for the avalanche of Trump coverage in the rest of the media, it’s hard to argue that people aren’t getting enough information--including lots of negative information--to make a decision.

    At the heart of these accusations of media failure is the notion that if they were just more hostile, the dumb readers and viewers would see Donald Trump for the clear and present danger that has so unnerved his critics.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/17/new-battle-cry-why-cant-media-stop-trump.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Miss Plato, the Met are a disgrace.

    Plenty of time to harass old aged pensioners without a shred of evidence against them, mind.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roger said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
    Apparently but check again next week.....
    That's pretty sick too.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282

    roger h..What evidence do you have that supports your claim..

    Richard here is some evidence.
    You Gov poll 23rd March 2014 Voting intentions by household income:
    < 25K Con 29%,Lab 42%
    25-40K Con 33%,Lab 42%
    40-60K Con 45% Lab 30%
    >60k Con 49% Lab 29%
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    Not a lot!!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Bruegal
    MAP | Temporary border checks & fences in Europe #Schengen #RefugeesCrisis https://t.co/mbKauZPOR9 https://t.co/VTYoOIwJeD
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    Wasn't electoral fraud rampant in Tower Hamlets? It seems crazy there wasn't any evidence. The plod seem to be very reluctant to investigate political crime. Also see the complete lack of action on the Tories hiding spending from the electoral commission by having an aide put hotel rooms on her credit card and not reporting it so they didn't break spending limits.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723
    My thoughts for Cheltenham today , got two good winners yesterday, Sprinter Scare and Diego du Charmil. After breakng even Monday I am up from yesterday , hopefully can repeat today

    1:30 Bristol De Mai
    2:10 Missed Approach
    2:50 Taquin Du Seuil ( place )
    3:30 Saphir Du Rheu (place )
    4:10 Stilletto
    4:50 Limini , (Smart Talk for place )
    5:30 The Giant Bolster
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Roger said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
    Apparently but check again next week.....
    I don't think these comments of yours are really called for.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Andrew Neil
    Deep in Treasury Red Book:
    Oil revenues £2.2bn 2014/15
    Oil revs close to zero 2015/16
    Oil revs MINUS £1bn 2016/17 (oil cos get tax credits)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    malcolmg said:

    My thoughts for Cheltenham today , got two good winners yesterday, Sprinter Scare and Diego du Charmil. After breakng even Monday I am up from yesterday , hopefully can repeat today

    1:30 Bristol De Mai
    2:10 Missed Approach
    2:50 Taquin Du Seuil ( place )
    3:30 Saphir Du Rheu (place )
    4:10 Stilletto
    4:50 Limini , (Smart Talk for place )
    5:30 The Giant Bolster

    I am the opposite won quite a bit Tuesday gave a bit back yesterday.

    Monday????
  • Wasn't electoral fraud rampant in Tower Hamlets? It seems crazy there wasn't any evidence. The plod seem to be very reluctant to investigate political crime. Also see the complete lack of action on the Tories hiding spending from the electoral commission by having an aide put hotel rooms on her credit card and not reporting it so they didn't break spending limits.

    It's almost like people haven't read the Telegraph article.

    Police had received 164 complaints of election malpractice in Tower Hamlets in and around the election on 22 May 2014, which led to two people being cautioned and one criminal trial, which has yet to go ahead.

    The review launched last year identified five new allegations, one of which could not be pursued as the one-year time limit had expired, the Yard said.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it ou

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers were telling the truth though. The share of tax paid by the better off has gone up not down so hang your heads in shame lefties.

    The truth is that this budget benefited the wealthy and took support away from the disabled. That's not the fault of dreadful lefties, it's the result of decisions made by the chancellor.

    let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    Which disability benefits have been increased?

    It is not a mark of Tory virtue that more people are disabled and therefore qualify for the REDUCED benefits that exist
    socialist Scotland or Wales.

    Which is sad, in 1988-90 England and Wales had the same life expectancy but now the Welsh are expected to get a whole years less life than the English.

    What a tragedy that socialism leads to people dying early. But yes I suppose you get to deal with less end of life disabilities, good for you *rolleyes*
    England had a Labour government for 13 years - doubtless if the life expectancy had decreased during that time, you'd be telling us so at the top of your voice...
    Did Wales have a Tory government during that time? No it didn't last time I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

    Thats a pretty disgusting thing to say.
    He has form.

    And when people don't react to it well, he takes it personally and flounces off the whole site in a huff.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Ozzie on R4 earlier essentially saying he do what Brussels tells him when it comes to the Tampon Tax. No surprise there.

    Vote Leave.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714

    Andrew Neil
    Deep in Treasury Red Book:
    Oil revenues £2.2bn 2014/15
    Oil revs close to zero 2015/16
    Oil revs MINUS £1bn 2016/17 (oil cos get tax credits)

    Almost makes you think HMG should have been doing something to offset the inevitable hit.

    As for Nicola .......
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    edited March 2016
    Credit to Sadiq Khan for saying this, I also suspect the Tories will use these quotes a lot.

    Sadiq Khan has said he “never imagined racism would be alive and kicking within Labour” in 2016 and called for those harbouring anti-Semitic views to be permanently kicked out of the party....

    ....I’m truly disgusted with the growing problems of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party over recent weeks,” he told the Jewish News. “I never imagined racism would be alive and kicking within the party in 2016. I thought we’d kicked these views out in the 1980s. I pledged to take tough action on anti-Semitism in London. We need the same approach to the Labour party.”

    http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/sadiq-khan-i-never-imagined-racism-would-be-alive-and-kicking-in-labour/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    There's an f1 docu on C4 this Friday, worth checking the listings

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not long until F1 resumes.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Miss Plato, cheers, I'll give that a look [don't always watch F1 documentaries, although there was a very good one on how dangerous it was in the 1970s a while back].
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited March 2016

    Freggles said:

    Got to say I am loving George's wheeze of cutting support for the disabled to provide tax cuts to the very wealthy.

    I'm not a fan of Osborne (still) prioritising corporation tax and capital gains tax cuts over reductions in personal, family and pensions taxation but, to be fair, has there ever been a left-winger who hasn't said that about a Conservative chancellor?

    Well, if Conservative chancellors do it left-wingers are going to point it ou

    It would be more convincing if the left wingers let facts get in the way of your cherrypicking that one payment to the disabled is being cut (while ignoring increased payments elsewhere).
    ime I looked. But the gap has increased further since 2010. I'd call that a success for Tory England and a failure for socialism but perhaps you don't and are pleased to see people in devolved nations die younger?
    Since the people dying younger are socialists I'd've thought you'd be cheering. After all, in your book the only good pinko is a dead pinko, isn't it?

    Thats a pretty disgusting thing to say.
    He has form.

    And when people don't react to it well, he takes it personally and flounces off the whole site in a huff.
    Once. But no right-winger ever gave a tuppenny damn about the truth.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944

    Bruegal
    MAP | Temporary border checks & fences in Europe #Schengen #RefugeesCrisis https://t.co/mbKauZPOR9 https://t.co/VTYoOIwJeD

    They're pretty theoretical right now: I drove from Brussels to Geneva and didn't see a single border guard or even slow down to cross a border.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    Rob Marchant's 2p

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2016/03/16/vicki-kirby-mccluskey-more-allegations-of-anti-semitism-as-the-partys-entry-procedures-descend-into-farce
    Ah, but, say the Corbynites. These people are just being picked on because they are anti-Israel, and the Establishment is pro-Israel. Critics are conflating being anti-Israel with being anti-Semitic.

    They are not. Anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism, whether it first derives from a left-wing hatred of Israel or not. It has pretty clear definitions, for a start (although amazingly some on the far left of the union movement have tried to play with those definitions, as well, to avoid being labelled anti-Semites. And that same union movement has long been riddled with the same kind of prejudices now hitting Labour, as Nick Cohen noted back in 2011 when he boycotted the TUC).

    But what is the most depressing thing about these events is the continuing lack of specific condemnation from the leadership, when words and not deeds are demanded. As Mike Dugher MP put it: “Labour will be judged by what we do, not by what we say. We must take these issues incredibly seriously straightaway and act immediately.”
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    @Innocent Abroad: you talk like you've figured it all out, in your tender old age, that your prejudices are axiomatic, obvious and not up for debate.

    In reality, you've reached some pretty warped and bizarre conclusions. You make a fool of yourself every time you post them, whilst also being personally offensive to several regular posters here.

    Why don't you focus on giving people the benefit of the doubt, and engaging with what they actually say, and perhaps we'd all enjoy and get a bit more out of it, eh?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    OT. Victoria Coren interviewing Sandy Toksvig. The two funniest and most interesting comediennes around. Interesting fact that I didn't know.;The PM of Iceland is the only openly gay leader in the world.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0738kq0
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Paul Brand

    ...I'm told enough Tory MPs opposed to cuts to disability benefits that Chancellor 'could not get this budget through a vote'. Big trouble.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451

    Paul Brand

    ...I'm told enough Tory MPs opposed to cuts to disability benefits that Chancellor 'could not get this budget through a vote'. Big trouble.

    Has Boy George screwed up again?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Miss Plato, I wonder if that'd end Osborne as a potential leader. Hmm.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Credit to Sadiq Khan for saying this, I also suspect the Tories will use these quotes a lot.

    Sadiq Khan has said he “never imagined racism would be alive and kicking within Labour” in 2016 and called for those harbouring anti-Semitic views to be permanently kicked out of the party....

    ....I’m truly disgusted with the growing problems of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party over recent weeks,” he told the Jewish News. “I never imagined racism would be alive and kicking within the party in 2016. I thought we’d kicked these views out in the 1980s. I pledged to take tough action on anti-Semitism in London. We need the same approach to the Labour party.”

    http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/sadiq-khan-i-never-imagined-racism-would-be-alive-and-kicking-in-labour/

    It has been clear for years that Labour is stuffed full of anti-Semites. Expressing faux outrage now doesn't really cut it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768

    Paul Brand

    ...I'm told enough Tory MPs opposed to cuts to disability benefits that Chancellor 'could not get this budget through a vote'. Big trouble.

    Master Strategist

    Or just failed CoE
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    EU migrant deal

    @duncanrobinson: And this is the kicker. https://t.co/kkgsGTQJuM
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587


    One of the reasons my ISA is self invested is so that I can choose what to invest in. No tobacco or arms companies for me, and I aim to be a net drain on the bookies thanks to this site ;-)

    I recommend Ethical Investors Ltd for those who have preferences - they have a really extensive questionnaire on what you like and don't like and advise accordingly - e.g. I don't want to invest in arms companies or animal experimenters, but unsurprisingly am not too bothered by bookies. They're professional and unjudgmental and simply follow your leanings with appropriate advice.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Lolz St Patricks Day

    Sean O'Neill
    er...... https://t.co/PO9YB508oK
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Miss Plato, I wonder if that'd end Osborne as a potential leader. Hmm.

    That's exactly what this is about, not disability benefits.

    It's rebel Tory MPs working out on which measure Osborne is most politically vulnerable, and then going for the jugular.

    He has made a lot of enemies.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Gin, failing to get a Budget passed is more than a screw-up. It'd be the equivalent of Flaminius chasing Hannibal.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Royale, it'd be ironic if the Conservatives managed to axe Osborne's leadership prospects whereas Labour cannot even oust the man in post.

    I wonder if anyone will be texting Osborne if he supports Leave, or if he wants a career?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    edited March 2016

    Mr. Royale, it'd be ironic if the Conservatives managed to axe Osborne's leadership prospects whereas Labour cannot even oust the man in post.

    I wonder if anyone will be texting Osborne if he supports Leave, or if he wants a career?

    Yup. Rumour, or otherwise, it's exactly that sort of stuff that so appals many backbench Tories about him becoming leader.

    Up to now, success (or not) in the Cameron administration has depended on a willingness to make oneself one of George Osborne's vassals.

    Plenty of Tories really don't want another 5-10 years of that writ-large once Cameron goes.

    Osborne's chances really do depend on what Gove does now. He is Warwick: the Kingmaker.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Miss Plato, I wonder if that'd end Osborne as a potential leader. Hmm.

    That's exactly what this is about, not disability benefits.

    It's rebel Tory MPs working out on which measure Osborne is most politically vulnerable, and then going for the jugular.

    He has made a lot of enemies.
    Also, it's a product of Conservative MPs not taking the Opposition seriously. Let's vote down our own budget why not?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Roger said:

    Wanderer said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder how long before Paul Daniels (who has just died) moves from hero to zero?

    He is a hero?
    Apparently but check again next week.....
    Yet another nasty comment from you, Roger. And you claim your fellow Brits are unpleasant? Look closer to home.
  • Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    kle4 said:

    The government has been heavily defeated in the House of Lords over trade union reforms Labour fears will cost it millions of pounds in funding.

    Ministers want to require Labour-affiliated union members to "opt in" to paying a levy to the party.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35828335

    Partisan in intent though it may be, and as vital as unions still are (even if some of their officials seem more interested in matters far beyond merely securing the best for and protecting their workers) I have yet to see how it is actually unfair to require people to make an active choice to contribute to a political party. Guess it doesn't matter if it has been so heavily defeated in the Lords, doesn't seem a fight the government would have the will or votes to keep on forcing through.
    I would have supported this if each shareholder also had to opt in if the company was donating money to a political party.
    The donations are coming from the company, not from individual shareholders. They have to vote in favour of their company making the donations, however.

    The union levy is coming directly from the union members.

    If the Unions were to put up their fees (to the central pot) and then choose to make a donation in their own name then it would be analogous to the company/shareholder relationship
    If individual shareholders had to opt in to political donations then there would be parity.
    No it wouldn't because the money is coming from the company rather than the shareholders.
    Whereas the political levy is coming from the members income rather than the union.

    Totally different.
    The companies income belongs to the shareholders, it is a spurious distinction.

    Though political parties funding is ripe for reform, I would restrict donations to individuals who are on the electoral register. Companies and Unions cannot vote as entities, so should not be able to donate in cash or in kind either.
    Political donations by companies could be approved by individual and institutional shareholders if they could only be made in the form of deductions from dividend payments: shareholders would have the option of approving (or not) the deduction.
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