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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So far Cameron just has the edge on trust in the mighty bat

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,135
    edited March 2016

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    Why is “lucid” anything to do with Boris, or, to a lesser degree, “Call-Me-Dave?

    I don’t believe in the supernatural but I’ve had a couple of “awake” experiences which have severely shaken my lack of faith. One lasted for a long while. Really weird.
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    Mr. Eagles, maybe it's a cunning plan to try and make Corbyn and McDonnell look like moderates.

    As cunning as bombing the US Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbour to keep America out of the Second World War
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    Roger said:

    On topic, I wonder how much the 'trust more' answer is conflated with 'agree with more'. Do UKIP voters really overwhelmingly trust Boris more or is it that his having come out for Leave just means that for the moment they like him more? It's very difficult to disassociate cause and consequence here because there will almost certainly be a feedback effect.

    I'm sure you're right with UKIP who are EU obsessed but how does your theory explain the Tory numbers? 54/27 trust Cameron most but that's nothing like the numbers for the Pro EUers
    I suspect with Tory voters, one part of the answer is that Boris has always been seen as a bit insubstantial, pork pies apart, and another is that on the EURef question specifically, it's difficult to trust someone who appears to take such a personal interest in the outcome (that could be said of Cameron too but Cameron does at least have a general track record in office that most Tories are happy with).
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016
    isam said:

    //twitter.com/a_liberty_rebel/status/709313001610829824

    ScottP will be 'rubbishing' them shortly.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Eagles, and very nearly as cunning as when the Romans responded to the Cimbri plea for peaceful settlement, or at least passage through Roman territory, by attacking (which led to about 3-4 colossal defeats for the Romans).
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    Only SeanT doing his Chicken Lickin imitation can turn a mid term German local election protest result into the most significant event in politics in the last 100 years or more .

    .. and only you can turn a LD victory in some meaningless local election into signs of the LD's revival turning into world domination.
    No, be fair, Tim Farron was doing that last week too. You might not have noticed but then again hardly anyone did.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336

    I enjoyed this tweet from the Mirror:
    https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/709158812712890369

    Is it as bad as when Sky News claimed a terrorist attack was the first time in history a beheading had happened in France?

    Who says the Mirror is just a comic and I would have thought they would have Osborne down as the worst...worse even than Hitler.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Urquhart, I do like to think they deliberately took that line to provoke a response and get more attention.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    watford30 said:

    ScottP will be 'rubbishing' them shortly.

    They're rubbish.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    watford30 said:

    ScottP will be 'rubbishing' them shortly.

    They're rubbish.
    “A leading regional daily” – Oh my….! :lol:
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    Mr. Urquhart, I do like to think they deliberately took that line to provoke a response and get more attention.

    The attention that a drunk gets in a council park at 9.15am while shouting at the pigeons?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,987

    Curious that the UK's mainstream media (i.e. the BBC) is just reporting that it's Merkel that's taking a hammering. That might be because her party has done badly but it's far from the overall picture. See what you make of the average vote shares and changes on the previous elections across the three länder:

    CDU: 29.5 (-6.1)
    SPD: 19.8 (-6.9)
    AfD: 17.3 (DNPC)
    Grn: 13.6 (-2.0)
    Lnk: 7.3 (-2.5)
    FPD: 6.5 (+2.0)

    Now, I'd say that that represented a bad night for both government parties but a worse one for the SPD, albeit that it held on to first in Rheinland Palatinate with an increase in share there (but a loss of seats). It was also a bad night for the left-of-centre, with the SPD, Greens and Linke down by a collective 11.4%.

    Obviously, it's always easy to read too much into local elections in any country and the unusually high profile of the Greens in BW might distort things but I'd still be inclined to read the top line here as meaningful: this was, by German standards, a pretty revolutionary set of elections. The victory of the Greens in BW of itself was extraordinary: the CDU had previously won every regional election in that state since (and including) the first post-war elections in 1952.

    Are all other mainstream media outlets in the UK reporting it differently to the BBC?

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    Curious that the UK's mainstream media (i.e. the BBC) is just reporting that it's Merkel that's taking a hammering. That might be because her party has done badly but it's far from the overall picture. See what you make of the average vote shares and changes on the previous elections across the three länder:

    CDU: 29.5 (-6.1)
    SPD: 19.8 (-6.9)
    AfD: 17.3 (DNPC)
    Grn: 13.6 (-2.0)
    Lnk: 7.3 (-2.5)
    FPD: 6.5 (+2.0)

    Now, I'd say that that represented a bad night for both government parties but a worse one for the SPD, albeit that it held on to first in Rheinland Palatinate with an increase in share there (but a loss of seats). It was also a bad night for the left-of-centre, with the SPD, Greens and Linke down by a collective 11.4%.

    Obviously, it's always easy to read too much into local elections in any country and the unusually high profile of the Greens in BW might distort things but I'd still be inclined to read the top line here as meaningful: this was, by German standards, a pretty revolutionary set of elections. The victory of the Greens in BW of itself was extraordinary: the CDU had previously won every regional election in that state since (and including) the first post-war elections in 1952.

    Are all other mainstream media outlets in the UK reporting it differently to the BBC?

    Not that I'm aware of. I watched Sky this morning but haven't read through the papers' websites.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Until fairly recently it was the LDs who'd a noticeable Jewish problem, now there's a Labour one every other day.

    It's remarkable how things gather pace. Labour will rue the day it sucked up to Antisemitism from within its own base.
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: EXC: Candidate Who Suggested ISIS Should Attack Israel Readmitted To Labour https://t.co/RDPe76aHq1 https://t.co/qCg0il9ImI

    Will she get a mention at PMQs?

    Can anyone on the left explain why they single out Jews for such ire ?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    On topic: Isn't this question just a proxy for EU referendum voting intention, and probably one expecially tainted by self-selection bias?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @steamedhamms: You know we broadened the debate in September? Shall we perhaps narrow it again so it doesn't include anti-semites?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2016

    We've seen this behaviour again and again. I'm surprised Matt Singh is hand waving here.

    chestnut said:

    When a party lie AfD starts to flourish, some people initially try to deny that it is happening, then they try to deny why it is happening.

    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.
    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.

    You're overanalysing this at face value rather than looking at the big picture and assuming this is "unique". You're missing the forest for the trees.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,098
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At several junctures in the dream I remember dream-thinking, OK, this is amazing, but I'd like to stop dreaming now, but the dream said - or my subconscious said - or God said- or the Bhutanese monkey-demon said - No, you must keep dreaming, this is very important, you mustn't stop now, and so I kept dreaming - and it got more and more powerful, and emotionally charged, and still the dream said KEEP DREAMING - and then it peaked in a remarkable way - and I woke up, stunned, heart pounding.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    It's not an uncommon occurrence

    http://youtu.be/aSG3s7Y9lP0
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793
    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    I'll respond in seconds not days. Yes I think it's related, I also think its so far pretty irrelevant and being over-examined and over-exaggerated because of Germany history, because it's interesting, because its new and because of people's related biases.

    If you look in the general context of protest parties rather than what they're protesting over specifically 11-12% for a protest party in midterm in a PR nation is not that shocking or unusual. I'll be surprised if they achieve that in an actual Bundestag election and I'll be very surprised if they achieve considerably more than that.

    Especially when you need to take into account of the fact that the German PR system needs a protest party to rise up now as soon as night follows day. The FDP in Germany has died and both main parties are in the Grand Coalition. So the field was wide open for a protest party to hoover up the midterm malcontents and given that the news is all about immigration yes an anti-immigration party has done it. And reached the shocking heights of what the Pirate Party previously did BEFORE the Grand Coalition, when protest voters could actually join the opposition party.

    You are wrong about AfD. It's not like the Pirates. The Pirates were a polling phantom based on online responses by motivated supporters. AfD have just come second, third and third in real elections and outperformed their polling positions. This was a real test of AfD's real world appeal as compared to their polling position. Would Germans really go to the ballot box and pick a pretty right wing party for the first time since the NPD surged in the 1980s, the answer is emphatically yes. This was also in the face of massive media opposition, massive boycotts of reporting AfD policies other than the controversial ones, real dark arts stuff from the CDU media allies.

    Obviously these are just state elections, the real war is the federal election, but they are in good shape and in a PR system they could score up to 20%, especially if the migrant crisis doesn't abate. Germans in these three states had a choice and yesterday 15-25% of them chose to vote for a right wing party, not just say they would in a poll like they did for the Pirates and many others who have come and gone.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Nicola Sturgeon agreed to be interviewed by my friend and former boss Andrew Neil on the BBC’s Sunday Politics at the weekend. Based on the results, I doubt she’ll be doing that again in a hurry.

    The implication there – nothing to see here, move along – is that the shock from independence would have been perfectly normal. But that rests on admitting that Scottish independence, which 18 months ago was pitched by the Nationalists as the land of milk and honey, would have had an impact on the Edinburgh government’s finances equivalent to the fiscal aftershocks of the financial crisis of 2008, which was the worst financial disaster for seventy years. So, that’s ok then…
    http://capx.co/sturgeon-independence-only-equivalent-to-worst-financial-crisis-for-70-years/
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Miss Plato, the fault lies not merely with the idiots spouting the rubbish, but with the supposed grown-up decision-makers who are actually treating such opinions as respectable, rather than contemptible.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sunday Politics
    How is Labour dealing with allegations of anti-semitism? @adamfleming reports in bbcsp film https://t.co/t525KHVkL6
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    We've seen this behaviour again and again. I'm surprised Matt Singh is hand waving here.

    chestnut said:

    When a party lie AfD starts to flourish, some people initially try to deny that it is happening, then they try to deny why it is happening.

    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.
    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.

    You're overanalysing this at face value rather than looking at the big picture and assuming this is "unique". You're missing the forest for the trees.
    But the clue is in your answer: why have the FDP 'died' (actually, they did ok by their own low standards yesterday). There are many parties not in government. Why did that new one rise to take second- and third-places, ahead of older and better-established alternatives?

    And I'd question your assertion that "a rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times". Citation please. There are other, isolated examples but in Germany's post-war history, how many times has a new party risen to 12% in the polls?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016

    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793

    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
    In the US, "Oriental" does have racist connotations. I remember using it there and being pulled up and immediately told that the only PC word was Asian. Obviously, when asked what to use to describe those from places like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, oh those are "Indian" was the reply.....head in hands...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    SeanT said:

    Hmm

    Matt Singh
    No, Merkel is not being "punished" over refugees. Governing parties do badly in midterms. It's not rocket Wißenschaft...

    Preposterous analysis.

    A populist anti-immigrant German right wing party has risen to serious prominence for the first time since 1945, a few months after the Chancellor allowed 1m migrants into the country, and said Let Them All Come. And three months after 1000 of these migrants went on a rape spree in central Cologne.

    What's the German for Look, squirrel?

    Laughable bollocks.
    Depends upon your definition of "serious prominence" I suppose. If the AfD can rise beyond the dizzying heights set by the Pirate Party it might be serious prominence. If they can look to get first place and lead a majority in the Bundestag it certainly would be.
    In the three elections yesterday, they came from nowhere to finish third in Baden-Wurttemburg, ahead of the SPD and FDP; third in Rhineland-Palatinate, ahead of the FDP and Greens; and second in Saxony Anhalt, ahead of Die Linke (ex-E Germany remember), SPD, FDP and Greens.

    They hold the balance of power short of a grand coalition in RP, and will be in government in SA unless the CDU can reach an agreement with either the Greens or Linke (!).

    Do you not think that those outcomes represent a fairly prominent position?
    The Saxony Anhalt result certainly was fairly prominent, though it's worth noting where the swing came from. The CDU were down just 2.8% (not an extraordinary swing for a major government party while the various left-wing parties were down considerably. Goes against the media narrative that this was a purely anti-Merkel vote.

    If the SA results were replicated across the country and especially in the Bundestag then yes I would find that incredible. But I'm skeptical of that.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Maybe, but she's not in America and neither is Clare College.

    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793

    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
    In the US, "Oriental" does have racist connotation. I remember using it there and being pulled up and immediately told that the only PC word was Asian. Obviously, when asked what to use to describe those from Pakistan, of those are "Indian" was the reply.....

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    We've seen this behaviour again and again. I'm surprised Matt Singh is hand waving here.

    chestnut said:

    When a party lie AfD starts to flourish, some people initially try to deny that it is happening, then they try to deny why it is happening.

    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.
    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.

    You're overanalysing this at face value rather than looking at the big picture and assuming this is "unique". You're missing the forest for the trees.
    But the clue is in your answer: why have the FDP 'died' (actually, they did ok by their own low standards yesterday). There are many parties not in government. Why did that new one rise to take second- and third-places, ahead of older and better-established alternatives?

    And I'd question your assertion that "a rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times". Citation please. There are other, isolated examples but in Germany's post-war history, how many times has a new party risen to 12% in the polls?
    The FDP died a few years ago and before this migrant crisis started so I don't think that they died because of Merkel's policy shift last year.

    But now I need to go to work, wish I could continue.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016

    Maybe, but she's not in America and neither is Clare College.

    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793

    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
    In the US, "Oriental" does have racist connotation. I remember using it there and being pulled up and immediately told that the only PC word was Asian. Obviously, when asked what to use to describe those from Pakistan, of those are "Indian" was the reply.....


    No I know and I agree it is rubbish...my point was that the logic being applied in the US to state that the term Oriental is toxic, is then not applied to call people from Pakistan "Indian" (which I am sure will drive them bloody apesh#t and obviously if you are so way inclined could be connected to the British "Indian" Empire).
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    MaxPB said:

    I'll respond in seconds not days. Yes I think it's related, I also think its so far pretty irrelevant and being over-examined and over-exaggerated because of Germany history, because it's interesting, because its new and because of people's related biases.

    If you look in the general context of protest parties rather than what they're protesting over specifically 11-12% for a protest party in midterm in a PR nation is not that shocking or unusual. I'll be surprised if they achieve that in an actual Bundestag election and I'll be very surprised if they achieve considerably more than that.

    Especially when you need to take into account of the fact that the German PR system needs a protest party to rise up now as soon as night follows day. The FDP in Germany has died and both main parties are in the Grand Coalition. So the field was wide open for a protest party to hoover up the midterm malcontents and given that the news is all about immigration yes an anti-immigration party has done it. And reached the shocking heights of what the Pirate Party previously did BEFORE the Grand Coalition, when protest voters could actually join the opposition party.

    You are wrong about AfD. It's not like the Pirates. The Pirates were a polling phantom based on online responses by motivated supporters. AfD have just come second, third and third in real elections and outperformed their polling positions. This was a real test of AfD's real world appeal as compared to their polling position. Would Germans really go to the ballot box and pick a pretty right wing party for the first time since the NPD surged in the 1980s, the answer is emphatically yes. This was also in the face of massive media opposition, massive boycotts of reporting AfD policies other than the controversial ones, real dark arts stuff from the CDU media allies.

    Obviously these are just state elections, the real war is the federal election, but they are in good shape and in a PR system they could score up to 20%, especially if the migrant crisis doesn't abate. Germans in these three states had a choice and yesterday 15-25% of them chose to vote for a right wing party, not just say they would in a poll like they did for the Pirates and many others who have come and gone.
    There are two more regional elections to be held in Germany later this year, in Berlin and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. Berlin should not be natural AfD territory but given the result in SA, MV might offer more opportunities. Either way, we'll get more real-world data before the federal election.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @davieclegg: Some very serious and potentially damaging claims made in Fife councillor Marie Penman's resignation letter from SNP https://t.co/VMvayVxb25
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464

    We've seen this behaviour again and again. I'm surprised Matt Singh is hand waving here.

    chestnut said:

    When a party lie AfD starts to flourish, some people initially try to deny that it is happening, then they try to deny why it is happening.

    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.
    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.

    You're overanalysing this at face value rather than looking at the big picture and assuming this is "unique". You're missing the forest for the trees.
    But the clue is in your answer: why have the FDP 'died' (actually, they did ok by their own low standards yesterday). There are many parties not in government. Why did that new one rise to take second- and third-places, ahead of older and better-established alternatives?

    And I'd question your assertion that "a rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times". Citation please. There are other, isolated examples but in Germany's post-war history, how many times has a new party risen to 12% in the polls?
    The FDP died a few years ago and before this migrant crisis started so I don't think that they died because of Merkel's policy shift last year.

    But now I need to go to work, wish I could continue.
    That's missing the point of my question. At one time, a grand coalition of CDU-SPD would be manna to the FDP. But it's not them gaining at the government's expense, nor is it (except in specific local situations) the Greens, never mind the Left.

    The vote for AfD was not just an anti-government one (though it was that); it was also a pro-AfD vote.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    MaxPB said:

    I'll respond in seconds not days. Yes I think it's related, I also think its so far pretty irrelevant and being over-examined and over-exaggerated because of Germany history, because it's interesting, because its new and because of people's related biases.

    If you look in the general context of protest parties rather than what they're protesting over specifically 11-12% for a protest party in midterm in a PR nation is not that shocking or unusual. I'll be surprised if they achieve that in an actual Bundestag election and I'll be very surprised if they achieve considerably more than that.

    Especially when you need to take into account of the fact that the German PR system needs a protest party to rise up now as soon as night follows day. The FDP in Germany has died and both main parties are in the Grand Coalition. So the field was wide open for a protest party to hoover up the midterm malcontents and given that the news is all about immigration yes an anti-immigration party has done it. And reached the shocking heights of what the Pirate Party previously did BEFORE the Grand Coalition, when protest voters could actually join the opposition party.

    You are wrong about AfD. It's not like the Pirates. The Pirates were a polling phantom based on online responses by motivated supporters. AfD have just come second, third and third in real elections and outperformed their polling positions. This was a real test of AfD's real world appeal as compared to their polling position. Would Germans really go to the ballot box and pick a pretty right wing party for the first time since the NPD surged in the 1980s, the answer is emphatically yes. This was also in the face of massive media opposition, massive boycotts of reporting AfD policies other than the controversial ones, real dark arts stuff from the CDU media allies.

    Obviously these are just state elections, the real war is the federal election, but they are in good shape and in a PR system they could score up to 20%, especially if the migrant crisis doesn't abate. Germans in these three states had a choice and yesterday 15-25% of them chose to vote for a right wing party, not just say they would in a poll like they did for the Pirates and many others who have come and gone.
    The Pirate Party polled well enough to get representation in several states in 2011/2012
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    I'll respond in seconds not days. Yes I think it's related, I also think its so far pretty irrelevant and being over-examined and over-exaggerated because of Germany history, because it's interesting, because its new and because of people's related biases.

    If you look in the general context of protest parties rather than what they're protesting over specifically 11-12% for a protest party in midterm in a PR nation is not that shocking or unusual. I'll be surprised if they achieve that in an actual Bundestag election and I'll be very surprised if they achieve considerably more than that.

    Especially when you need to take into account of the fact that the German PR system needs a protest party to rise up now as soon as night follows day. The FDP in Germany has died and both main parties are in the Grand Coalition. So the field was wide open for a protest party to hoover up the midterm malcontents and given that the news is all about immigration yes an anti-immigration party has done it. And reached the shocking heights of what the Pirate Party previously did BEFORE the Grand Coalition, when protest voters could actually join the opposition party.

    You are wrong about AfD. It's not like the Pirates. The Pirates were a polling phantom based on online responses by motivated supporters. AfD have just come second, third and third in real elections and outperformed their polling positions. This was a real test of AfD's real world appeal as compared to their polling position. Would Germans really go to the ballot box and pick a pretty right wing party for the first time since the NPD surged in the 1980s, the answer is emphatically yes. This was also in the face of massive media opposition, massive boycotts of reporting AfD policies other than the controversial ones, real dark arts stuff from the CDU media allies.

    Obviously these are just state elections, the real war is the federal election, but they are in good shape and in a PR system they could score up to 20%, especially if the migrant crisis doesn't abate. Germans in these three states had a choice and yesterday 15-25% of them chose to vote for a right wing party, not just say they would in a poll like they did for the Pirates and many others who have come and gone.
    The Pirate Party polled well enough to get representation in several states in 2011/2012
    So the Pirates came second, third and third in regional elections and got 18% of all votes cast on one night? No, well stop making a comparison that doesn't apply because it makes you feel better.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016
    Silicon Valley’s leading companies – including Facebook, Google and Snapchat – are working on their own increased privacy technology as Apple fights the US government over encryption, the Guardian has learned.

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/14/facebook-google-whatsapp-plan-increase-encryption-fbi-apple

    That would be the big middle finger to the man...well also their competition is already offering a lot of this. Wire for instance (created by ex-employees of Skype) offers fully encrypted end-to-end text, audio and video.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,257
    As an aside, this was a relatively good night for the FPD, who's vote share recovered somewhat. Getting 5% in the next federal elections no longer looks beyond them.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At several junctures in the dream I remember dream-thinking, OK, this is amazing, but I'd like to stop dreaming now, but the dream said - or my subconscious said - or God said- or the Bhutanese monkey-demon said - No, you must keep dreaming, this is very important, you mustn't stop now, and so I kept dreaming - and it got more and more powerful, and emotionally charged, and still the dream said KEEP DREAMING - and then it peaked in a remarkable way - and I woke up, stunned, heart pounding.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,098
    edited March 2016
    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At several junctures in the dream I remember dream-thinking, OK, this is amazing, but I'd like to stop dreaming now, but the dream said - or my subconscious said - or God said- or the Bhutanese monkey-demon said - No, you must keep dreaming, this is very important, you mustn't stop now, and so I kept dreaming - and it got more and more powerful, and emotionally charged, and still the dream said KEEP DREAMING - and then it peaked in a remarkable way - and I woke up, stunned, heart pounding.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
    REM sleep isn't it?

    I tend to get such dreams on the first nights good sleep after a spell of unsettled or lack of sleep... I think that's because we dream in the latter stage of sleep/REM sleep
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Silicon Valley’s leading companies – including Facebook, Google and Snapchat – are working on their own increased privacy technology as Apple fights the US government over encryption, the Guardian has learned.

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/14/facebook-google-whatsapp-plan-increase-encryption-fbi-apple

    That would be the big middle finger to the man...well also their competition is already offering a lot of this. Wire for instance (created by ex-employees of Skype) offers fully encrypted end-to-end text, audio and video.

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, this was a relatively good night for the FPD, who's vote share recovered somewhat. Getting 5% in the next federal elections no longer looks beyond them.

    Yes, they should get above 5%, but will they want to go back into another coalition with the CDU given what happened last time, especially since the grand coalition may require them to join to ensure stability.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Silicon Valley’s leading companies – including Facebook, Google and Snapchat – are working on their own increased privacy technology as Apple fights the US government over encryption, the Guardian has learned.

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/14/facebook-google-whatsapp-plan-increase-encryption-fbi-apple

    That would be the big middle finger to the man...well also their competition is already offering a lot of this. Wire for instance (created by ex-employees of Skype) offers fully encrypted end-to-end text, audio and video.

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?
    I have no idea...also these companies are already behind the curve with the likes of Telegram, Wire etc already offering end to end encryption and I am sure there are even better others that aren't on the radar yet.

    I am not sure how any government is going to ban "math". It isn't like terrorists are going to obey the law not to jailbreak their phone and install an app that isn't in the appstore because it is illegal.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, this was a relatively good night for the FPD, who's vote share recovered somewhat. Getting 5% in the next federal elections no longer looks beyond them.

    That's true and they have been reliable coalition partners to both SPD and CDU/CSU for long periods.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071

    Roger said:

    On topic, I wonder how much the 'trust more' answer is conflated with 'agree with more'. Do UKIP voters really overwhelmingly trust Boris more or is it that his having come out for Leave just means that for the moment they like him more? It's very difficult to disassociate cause and consequence here because there will almost certainly be a feedback effect.

    I'm sure you're right with UKIP who are EU obsessed but how does your theory explain the Tory numbers? 54/27 trust Cameron most but that's nothing like the numbers for the Pro EUers
    I suspect with Tory voters, one part of the answer is that Boris has always been seen as a bit insubstantial, pork pies apart, and another is that on the EURef question specifically, it's difficult to trust someone who appears to take such a personal interest in the outcome (that could be said of Cameron too but Cameron does at least have a general track record in office that most Tories are happy with).
    Anecdote alert. I was very struck recently when I raised the issue of Boris with my father. He used to be a big fan of his writing, get him the books for Christmas etc but he seemed to have turned on Boris lately. He's a pretty Thatcherite Eurosceptic but ultimately the Tories for him are supposed to be the serious party whereas Labour can't really be trusted. I think he'd be loathe to see Boris as PM with his clown act - though I'm sure he would modify it.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    isam said:

    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At several junctures in the dream I remember dream-thinking, OK, this is amazing, but I'd like to stop dreaming now, but the dream said - or my subconscious said - or God said- or the Bhutanese monkey-demon said - No, you must keep dreaming, this is very important, you mustn't stop now, and so I kept dreaming - and it got more and more powerful, and emotionally charged, and still the dream said KEEP DREAMING - and then it peaked in a remarkable way - and I woke up, stunned, heart pounding.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
    REM sleep isn't it?
    It may well be, @isam. By the way hullo again. However, they seem real enough to me; REM or no.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?

    The US, the UK, the rest of the EU, Australia, and Canada will surely agree a common position, as usual. It makes no sense for any one country to follow a different policy.

    In practice, the US government will lead this, and of course they are not going to compromise the safety of US citizens.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793

    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
    In the US, "Oriental" does have racist connotations. I remember using it there and being pulled up and immediately told that the only PC word was Asian. Obviously, when asked what to use to describe those from places like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, oh those are "Indian" was the reply.....head in hands...

    This is one of the more ludicrous things I have heard from the NUS in a few months (almost on a par with jazz hands rather than clapping at meetings to avoid triggering)

    Orient Express is the name of company. Just as Leyton Orient is the name of company.

    I don't see the Black Student Officer at the NUS calling for a ban on students having to risk being exposed to DVDs of Murder on the Orient Express or demanding that the owners of Matchroom Stadium change the name of their football club

    It is blatant and pathetic bandwagon jumping and makes the NUS look even more foolish than it already does.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I am not sure how any government is going to ban "math". It isn't like terrorists are going to obey the law not to jailbreak their phone and install an app that isn't in the appstore because it is illegal.

    I expect that the security services would be delighted to have such a clear and easily-detectable clue that a particular device is worth tracking.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, this was a relatively good night for the FPD, who's vote share recovered somewhat. Getting 5% in the next federal elections no longer looks beyond them.

    Keep the dream alive my friend.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    MaxPB said:

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?

    The US, the UK, the rest of the EU, Australia, and Canada will surely agree a common position, as usual. It makes no sense for any one country to follow a different policy.

    In practice, the US government will lead this, and of course they are not going to compromise the safety of US citizens.
    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,098
    MikeK said:

    isam said:

    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At several junctures in the dream I remember dream-thinking, OK, this is amazing, but I'd like to stop dreaming now, but the dream said - or my subconscious said - or God said- or the Bhutanese monkey-demon said - No, you must keep dreaming, this is very important, you mustn't stop now, and so I kept dreaming - and it got more and more powerful, and emotionally charged, and still the dream said KEEP DREAMING - and then it peaked in a remarkable way - and I woke up, stunned, heart pounding.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
    REM sleep isn't it?
    It may well be, @isam. By the way hullo again. However, they seem real enough to me; REM or no.
    Hello! Quite interesting, the stages of sleep... One of the few things I remember of my Psychology A Level

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep

  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    SeanT said:

    This is worth a few mins of ear time - she's talking clichéd gibberish. He takes no prisoners

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/ferrari-schools-student-protesting-against-orient-express-ball-126793

    But protesters claim that the word "Orient" has toxic connotations of white people enjoying themselves at the expense of others.

    This row follows similar arguments about the Cecil Rhodes statue in Oxford and the Queen Victoria statue at Royal Holloway.

    Nick spoke to Malia Bouattia, the Black students officer at the National Union of Students, and told her that she has got her priorities very wrong.
    In the US, "Oriental" does have racist connotations. I remember using it there and being pulled up and immediately told that the only PC word was Asian. Obviously, when asked what to use to describe those from places like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, oh those are "Indian" was the reply.....head in hands...
    Yes, I was told in no uncertain terms to take *Oriental* out of one of my thrillers, for the US market. It's a really bad word cross the pond. Probably on a par with "Paki" in the UK.

    So you changed it to Asiatic...
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?

    The US, the UK, the rest of the EU, Australia, and Canada will surely agree a common position, as usual. It makes no sense for any one country to follow a different policy.

    In practice, the US government will lead this, and of course they are not going to compromise the safety of US citizens.
    There's no international consensus though. The US and UK stand pretty much alone on banning encryption, the companies involved are willing to take it to the Supreme Court in the US to fight it and, surprisingly, they have the public on their side.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    rcs1000 said:

    As an aside, this was a relatively good night for the FPD, who's vote share recovered somewhat. Getting 5% in the next federal elections no longer looks beyond them.

    Ditto the Lib Dems.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    I don't think anybody really believes the public claims that the US security services can't get into an iPhone. It is more to do with time and effort. It is already on record that they have cracked far more complex systems such as mainstream VPN technology and encrypted Web connections...it is just they take a lot of heavy lifting.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    Well, something is not right. There is a disconnect between those that know, advisers and politicians. The govt struggles to communicate even the simplest concepts clearly.

    I suspect those that really understand it have no access to the politics and what we see is the results of Chinese whispers.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.'

    Back in cap doffing mode again I see Richard
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
    No-one is talking about banning encryption, and only idiots think Dave is clueless.

    The main point, though, is that the security experts who pontificate about this are not experts in intelligence. You only need to read a little about Ultra to understand the distinction.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Again the MSM media in US are missing it....Like here with the focus on Nick Griffin being a racist and then trying to tar Farage with the same brush, and still scratching their head how UKIP can be polling higher and higher despite the best effort of portraying him a at best non-PC at worst racist.

    What they are really missing is what Trump is promising is totally unrealistic, just as Farage's message of if only we were in the EU everything would instantly and 100% be much better.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,098
    edited March 2016
    On topic, wouldn't it seem that a lot of the UKIP vote that trust Boris over Dave are Tory defectors and the con vote that trust Dave over Boris are obviously loyal Tories? So if the Tory vote went down you'd expect the D/B in Tories to increase and the B/D in UKIP also?

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
    No-one is talking about banning encryption, and only idiots think Dave is clueless.

    The main point, though, is that the security experts who pontificate about this are not experts in intelligence. You only need to read a little about Ultra to understand the distinction.
    No, they are data security experts. I wouldn't expect them to know or care about intelligence.

    If Dave isn't clueless about the internet and digital communication he is doing a very good impression of a clueless person in that case.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
    No-one is talking about banning encryption, and only idiots think Dave is clueless.

    The main point, though, is that the security experts who pontificate about this are not experts in intelligence. You only need to read a little about Ultra to understand the distinction.
    Dave hasn't half come out with some right old crap over the years in relation to the internet technologies.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    We've seen this behaviour again and again. I'm surprised Matt Singh is hand waving here.

    chestnut said:

    When a party lie AfD starts to flourish, some people initially try to deny that it is happening, then they try to deny why it is happening.

    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.
    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.



    But now I need to go to work, wish I could continue.
    That's missing the point of my question. At one time, a grand coalition of CDU-SPD would be manna to the FDP. But it's not them gaining at the government's expense, nor is it (except in specific local situations) the Greens, never mind the Left.

    The vote for AfD was not just an anti-government one (though it was that); it was also a pro-AfD vote.
    AfD only just missed out on gaining representation in the Bundestag in 2013. It's hard to think it won't do so next time around, when there is so much disillusion with Merkel.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,596

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Trump supporters are going to be very disappointed people in a year or two's time. Either he loses to Clinton, or, he wins, and then fails to deliver.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
    With all respect those organisations are committed to following their commercial interests and if it isn't in their interests of course they would be obstructionist. At the same time I wouldn't necessarily trust the government and GCHQ, so what is to be done?

    Time for a quango of the great and the good?
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Again the MSM media in US are missing it....Like here with the focus on Nick Griffin being a racist and then trying to tar Farage with the same brush, and still scratching their head how UKIP can be polling higher and higher despite the best effort of portraying him a at best non-PC at worst racist.

    What they are really missing is what Trump is promising is totally unrealistic, just as Farage's message of if only we were in the EU everything would instantly and 100% be much better.
    What Trump is promising is to put the people of America first, second and third. Right across the west the notion is developing that home voters are a low priority for the people they put into power and whose salaries they pay.

    Trump says he aims to reverse that.

    Not an American? get in line.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Jonathan said:

    Well, something is not right. There is a disconnect between those that know, advisers and politicians. The govt struggles to communicate even the simplest concepts clearly.

    I suspect those that really understand it have no access to the politics and what we see is the results of Chinese whispers.

    Of course the government can't communicate clearly about intelligence matters. When some 'expert' with no security clearance talks nonsense about either the technical issues, or even more often with zero understanding of how intelligence work is done, the government is hardly going to be able to respond with a detailed account of what GCHQ actually does.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Jesus wept part II

    A Labour parliamentary candidate who was suspended for suggesting ISIS should attack Israel has been readmitted to the party. In 2014 Vicki Kirby, then Labour’s candidate in Woking, was exposed by the Sunday Times for writing that Hitler was the “Zionist God” in a string of insane tweets, even asking why ISIS isn’t attacking Israel, who she described as “the real oppressors”

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/candidate-who-suggested-isis-should-attack-israel-readmitted-to-labour/

    Bloody hell.

    And I'm someone with a record of voting for what could variously be described as the left/hard-left/far-left including for JC.

    But I absolutely detest socialising with lefties (at least, from that part of the left-wing spectrum) because aside from the self-righteousness and smug certainties, the loon ratio (even if it's someone who is utterly reasonable about most of their positions, but has one or two "pet" topics) is infuriating.
  • Options
    FernandoFernando Posts: 145
    I'm amazed Boris rates so highly in the trust stakes. I can't think of anyone (and I mean any senior figure in the party) most Conservatives regard as less trustworthy. This doesn't mean we don't like him, don't think he's done a good job as Mayor or don't think he'd be a good PM. But trustworthy...Boris...please.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Urquhart, quite. Cameron's a plank when it comes to technology.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    Dave hasn't half come out with some right old crap over the years in relation to the internet technologies.

    In what area does Dave demonstrate any real expertise? I honestly can't think of anything I've heard Dave say where I thought "he knows what he is talking about".
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At sevng.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
    Most dreams occur in REM sleep and REM sleep is more common the nearer you get to waking - i.e. morning.

    There is a technical difference between strange powerful semi-real dreams which occur very near waking, or at the onset of sleep, which are hypnopompic/hypnagogic dreams, and true lucid dreams, which can occur in the dead of night, but crucially give you some awareness THAT you are dreaming.

    I'm pretty sure mine was a true lucid dream, not hypnopompia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

    I've only had anything like that once, when I dreamed that my house was being burgled and that someone was in the bedroom with me. Curiously, I rationalised that I *wasn't* dreaming (I had been burgled not long before), and after a moment when I distinctly remember taking the decision, leaped out of bed to smother the hallucination with my duvet. I ended up with the duvet in a heap on the floor and a lot of mental processing to go through.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    taffys said:

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Again the MSM media in US are missing it....Like here with the focus on Nick Griffin being a racist and then trying to tar Farage with the same brush, and still scratching their head how UKIP can be polling higher and higher despite the best effort of portraying him a at best non-PC at worst racist.

    What they are really missing is what Trump is promising is totally unrealistic, just as Farage's message of if only we were in the EU everything would instantly and 100% be much better.
    What Trump is promising is to put the people of America first, second and third. Right across the west the notion is developing that home voters are a low priority for the people they put into power and whose salaries they pay.

    Trump says he aims to reverse that.

    Not an American? get in line.
    The problem is he can't deliver on most of his promises. The wall he can definitely do, he could probably come up with some plan to limit Muslims from entering the US if he really wanted, but all the "well I will just get a better deal and magically all these manufacturing jobs will come back to the US and we are going to handicap China" isn't going to happen, not without impoverishing all of America.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    edited March 2016
    Sean_F said:



    This behaviour = protest votes in midterm?

    Or something else. Matt Singh has hit the nail on the head, that's why he's said what he has. AfD = utterly meaningless.

    You haven;t grapsed how PR works.
    Of course I understand it, it makes it very easy to claim to support any party during midterms and very fluid leading to high shares for protest parties in midterm. Have you grasped that?
    More than you have.

    I'm basing my view on the political analysts in german newspapers and media which I'm reading and watching in the orginal. You're basing yours on a tweet from some english bloke who can't read German.
    No I'm basing mine on analysing politics and its history. A rise of a protest party at this stage to 12% is not exceptional at the best of times, let alone when there's a Grand Coalition and the FDP have died.



    But now I need to go to work, wish I could continue.
    That's missing the point of my question. At one time, a grand coalition of CDU-SPD would be manna to the FDP. But it's not them gaining at the government's expense, nor is it (except in specific local situations) the Greens, never mind the Left.

    The vote for AfD was not just an anti-government one (though it was that); it was also a pro-AfD vote.
    AfD only just missed out on gaining representation in the Bundestag in 2013. It's hard to think it won't do so next time around, when there is so much disillusion with Merkel.
    I agree. There's a good chance they'll finish third.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    So anyway

    Migration is only an issue in the UK because too many lazy sods won't borrow the money to get educated and if you disagree with that you're prejudiced / racist.

    Tony on top form.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/12192682/Tony-Blair-Dont-blame-migrants-for-taking-your-job.html

    Its amazing how the Lefts embrace of high levels of migration has caused them to adopt Tory Right beliefs to defend it: you need to keep wages low for good of economy, the unemployed are to blame for their own laziness...
    Though he's no leftist, I thought that Lord Rose was refreshingly honest in his view that rising wages would be a bad consequence of Brexit.
    Artificially rising wages through restriction of immigration would be a bad thing. The fact is the country's benefit structure still needs considerable reform to ensure that work always pays. Skilled immigrants are a boon to the economy.
    Depends whether you do it at top end or bottom end. Increasing unskilled wages would definitely be a good thing.

    It depends, doesn't it? Increasing the wages of unskilled workers is clearly very good for unskilled workers, but the subsequent price rises will affect everyone. Isn't that the right's argument against a living wage?

    No, the right's argument is that if you increase people's minimum wage above the level of value they have the potential to create for an employer then you artificially price them out of the labour market (assuming no government subsidies) and trap them in long-term unemployment with all the social, spiritual and economic issues that creates

    Fair enough. So it's an argument that has been debunked by practical experience.

    Not quite.

    It's clear that the protestations that the introduction of a minimum wage would cause X million job losses haven't come true (sound familiar?)

    However, you can't draw the conclusion that the level of the minimum wage can be increased to whatever rate you want without any impact. It's logical to argue that it did have an impact (although less than expected) but this was cushioned the overall economic climate and other government policies that reduced the effective cost of employment. It's very difficult to argue a counterfactual case.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2016
    My most memorable dream was one where I dreamt I was on my deathbed, knowing I was going to die shortly. I was extremely anxious, not because I was about to die, but because I had something vitally important to tell my wife before I died, and she wasn't at my bedside. I kept asking the nurses whether she was coming, and they kept assurring me that she was, but still she didn't come.

    Eventually she arrived, and I was able to give her the vital instruction: that when she washed up the potato peeler, she must be sure to dry it straight away or else it would go rusty.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    taffys said:

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Again the MSM media in US are missing it....Like here with the focus on Nick Griffin being a racist and then trying to tar Farage with the same brush, and still scratching their head how UKIP can be polling higher and higher despite the best effort of portraying him a at best non-PC at worst racist.

    What they are really missing is what Trump is promising is totally unrealistic, just as Farage's message of if only we were in the EU everything would instantly and 100% be much better.
    What Trump is promising is to put the people of America first, second and third. Right across the west the notion is developing that home voters are a low priority for the people they put into power and whose salaries they pay.

    Trump says he aims to reverse that.

    Not an American? get in line.
    The problem is he can't deliver on most of his promises. The wall he can definitely do, he could probably come up with some plan to limit Muslims from entering the US if he really wanted, but all the "well I will just get a better deal and magically all these manufacturing jobs will come back to the US and we are going to handicap China" isn't going to happen, not without impoverishing all of America.
    I guess I agree he can't deliver, but you can see the appeal. His opponents don;t even want to try.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited March 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    The worrying thing about the UK govt is that they don't seem to understand it. Our leaders are remarkably ill informed.

    Nonsense. They are advised by GCHQ, and nothing is more absurd than the armchair security experts who think they know more than GCHQ does about surveillance.
    On one side we have banks, communication companies and data companies all with extremely highly paid data security people saying that banning encryption isn't viable, and on the other we have clueless Dave being egged on by GCHQ who want an easier life. I wonder who to trust. It certainly isn't the spooks.
    No-one is talking about banning encryption, and only idiots think Dave is clueless.

    The main point, though, is that the security experts who pontificate about this are not experts in intelligence. You only need to read a little about Ultra to understand the distinction.
    Whenever there is an intelligence failure and people get killed, politicians and the public look for someone to blame, the intelligence services can either admit that they fucked up, or they can defend themselves on the basis that they cannot be omnipotent, and they are constrained by the power that the law gives them.

    Intelligence agencies ALWAYS claim to want more surveillance powers, even if in almost every case now they are not able to use the information they are given, there is just too much of it. A decade ago intelligence was looking for a needle in a haystack, every time they ask for broader powers the haystack gets larger. But its either that or admit they are culpable and/or not up to the job, neither of which is going to happen.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Jesus wept part II

    A Labour parliamentary candidate who was suspended for suggesting ISIS should attack Israel has been readmitted to the party. In 2014 Vicki Kirby, then Labour’s candidate in Woking, was exposed by the Sunday Times for writing that Hitler was the “Zionist God” in a string of insane tweets, even asking why ISIS isn’t attacking Israel, who she described as “the real oppressors”

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/candidate-who-suggested-isis-should-attack-israel-readmitted-to-labour/

    Bloody hell.

    And I'm someone with a record of voting for what could variously be described as the left/hard-left/far-left including for JC.

    But I absolutely detest socialising with lefties (at least, from that part of the left-wing spectrum) because aside from the self-righteousness and smug certainties, the loon ratio (even if it's someone who is utterly reasonable about most of their positions, but has one or two "pet" topics) is infuriating.
    Incidentally, the next "reasonable" leader of the Labour party would have a hell of a job trying to clean (or purge) the lower and even middling ranks of the party up.

    Perhaps the hope will simply be that a clear change of direction at the top of the party will disillusion those they don't want in the tent, and they'll go back to the Greens or Socialists or wherever they crawled out from. But if instead they stick around to "fight for their party back", I can imagine things getting very messy indeed.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556

    I don't think anybody really believes the public claims that the US security services can't get into an iPhone. It is more to do with time and effort.

    Or it could be that the NSA doesn't want anyone to know that they already have some of Apple's code signing keys. They managed to steal similar keys for use in Operation Olympic Games. It is very unlikely that those are the only keys they have. The NSA can't provide evidence for criminal investigations using such keys, without disclosing their ability to do so, and so the FBI need some sort of parallel construction to get the evidence in a legal fashion. Which might explain why the FBI and DOJ are so intent on doing so.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    Am I the only one unimpressed by the AfD performance?

    Germany has had one million migrants in the last year - immigration on a truly biblical scale - and widespread reports of harassment, sex attacks and social problems.

    And the AfD can still only muster 14% and a few third places?

    I'd have thought they'd be looking at 20%+ and a string of second places nationwide in these elections.

    Colour me unimpressed.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    Having finally watched it today I have to say that Nicola Sturgeon did quite well against Andrew Neill. After Paxo's retirement it is undoubtedly the toughest gig in politics and she stood up a lot better than most.

    She has developed into a truly formidable politician, way better and more credible than Salmond ever was. She was defending a very sticky wicket, a scenario where had Scotland voted for independence we would now be facing an economic disaster rather than the extra £500 a head we were promised in 2014 with the worst deficit in the EU. Despite that, with a straight bat, some careful leaves outside off stump and some nifty footwork she survived with her wicket intact. Anyone who likes to believe that this woman and her party will not be utterly dominant in Scotland for some time to come should watch carefully: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03mjn1k

    I think she is going to emulate Cameron and increase the number of seats, and hence her existing majority, in office. I think the Tories will increase their number of seats as well, possibly by as many as 7, but the net losers will be Labour, not the SNP. There will come a time when those on the left in particular become disillusioned with the SNP's caution and the gap between their rhetoric and what they actually do will demand a new bridge but whether SLAB will still exist in its current form by that time is an open question.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    edited March 2016
    If a gang was shooting Apple management, I wonder if views would change.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:

    I went through a phase of very realistic mundane dreams such as doing the laundry. It kept catching me out when things I was totally certain I'd washed - weren't.

    Most peculiar.

    My most memorable dream was one where I dreamt I was on my deathbed, knowing I was going to die shortly. I was extremely anxious, not because I was about to die, but because I had something vitally important to tell my wife before I died, and she wasn't at my bedside. I kept asking the nurses whether she was coming, and they kept assurring me that she was, but still she didn't come.

    Eventually she arrived, and I was able to give her the vital instruction: that when she washed up the potato peeler, she must be sure to dry it straight away or else it would go rusty.

  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,071

    Jesus wept part II

    A Labour parliamentary candidate who was suspended for suggesting ISIS should attack Israel has been readmitted to the party. In 2014 Vicki Kirby, then Labour’s candidate in Woking, was exposed by the Sunday Times for writing that Hitler was the “Zionist God” in a string of insane tweets, even asking why ISIS isn’t attacking Israel, who she described as “the real oppressors”

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/candidate-who-suggested-isis-should-attack-israel-readmitted-to-labour/

    Bloody hell.

    And I'm someone with a record of voting for what could variously be described as the left/hard-left/far-left including for JC.

    But I absolutely detest socialising with lefties (at least, from that part of the left-wing spectrum) because aside from the self-righteousness and smug certainties, the loon ratio (even if it's someone who is utterly reasonable about most of their positions, but has one or two "pet" topics) is infuriating.
    I've found myself in a social circle that involves a few of these types. I was chatting to a rather meek lady the other night who is part of the local anarchist network. They were very excited because Jeremy Corbyn was coming to town and they were keen to photobomb him with anarchist flags in the background. Apparently the 'anarchists for Corbyn' is a big joke online.

    I couldn't work out what the purpose was - a satirising of the right wing media's demonisation of Jezza? - but it did make me wonder how committed these people really were to politics and changing things or if it was just an opportunity for a bunch of 'artists' wanting to express themselves and their originality.
  • Options

    Jesus wept part II

    A Labour parliamentary candidate who was suspended for suggesting ISIS should attack Israel has been readmitted to the party. In 2014 Vicki Kirby, then Labour’s candidate in Woking, was exposed by the Sunday Times for writing that Hitler was the “Zionist God” in a string of insane tweets, even asking why ISIS isn’t attacking Israel, who she described as “the real oppressors”

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/candidate-who-suggested-isis-should-attack-israel-readmitted-to-labour/

    Bloody hell.

    And I'm someone with a record of voting for what could variously be described as the left/hard-left/far-left including for JC.

    But I absolutely detest socialising with lefties (at least, from that part of the left-wing spectrum) because aside from the self-righteousness and smug certainties, the loon ratio (even if it's someone who is utterly reasonable about most of their positions, but has one or two "pet" topics) is infuriating.
    Is bizarre, I just hope the Monday Club don't start taking over the Tory Party.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I had a call from Populus the other day and told them to mind their own business, makes you wonder who responds to pollsters.

    Its good to see you employ your charm offensive indiscriminately. :)
    Yep, strangers asking me my age group, name and address, only weirdos would respond.

    You left the country you were so tired of it, now you're busy telling us what to do.
    Oh dear - I am a UK citizen paying full UK [and Spanish] taxes and have the protection of a British passport. It's sad to hear such bitterness so early in the morning but fortunately the clear blue sky outside and the balmy temperatures beckon and sweeten the pill immeasurably.
    Endless monotonous days of sunny mind-bending ennui tempered by gin and PB.
    We get the picture.
    And hookers. Don't forget the hookers.

    Oh, sorry, thought you were talking about ME.
    What happened to your policewoman friend?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    ONtopic I had an amazing lucid dream last night, two hours long, which basically convinced me there is some attenuated form of afterlife.

    I've only had a dream like this once before, in my entire existence, and that dream got me off a 15 year heroin addiction.

    I should point out that I am in Bangkok, drinking a lot of gin, having just come back from Bhutan, the Kingdom of the Thunder Dragon, so make of this what you will.

    Are you sure it was two hours long. I thought dreams last only a few seconds but seem longer.. bit like a download of several megs that takes a few secs?
    It was a "lucid dream" - i.e. I was nearer to full consciousness than normal, the kind of dream where you know you're dreaming, a bit like an acid trip.

    At sevng.

    It was fucking strange, and very beautiful. Also unique - for me - for being without any sinister or menacing elements: entirely benign.

    Possibly it took place in seconds, who knows, but it certainly felt like it played out over an hour or two. So many many details. Sublime.
    I've also had these vivid, colourful and real feeling dreams. They usually occur - for me - towards morning and I call them - to myself - out of body super dreams.
    Most dreams occur in REM sleep and REM sleep is more common the nearer you get to waking - i.e. morning.

    There is a technical difference between strange powerful semi-real dreams which occur very near waking, or at the onset of sleep, which are hypnopompic/hypnagogic dreams, and true lucid dreams, which can occur in the dead of night, but crucially give you some awareness THAT you are dreaming.

    I'm pretty sure mine was a true lucid dream, not hypnopompia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

    I've only had anything like that once, when I dreamed that my house was being burgled and that someone was in the bedroom with me. Curiously, I rationalised that I *wasn't* dreaming (I had been burgled not long before), and after a moment when I distinctly remember taking the decision, leaped out of bed to smother the hallucination with my duvet. I ended up with the duvet in a heap on the floor and a lot of mental processing to go through.
    Lol!

    I know what that's like. Had a dream a fortnight ago when a group of thugs broke into my house and were about to knife me in my bed whilst I slept.

    I reacted in my dream supremely powerfully, and violently. In reality, I woke up in a cold sweat with all my bedding hurled at the door (and blocking it)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited March 2016
    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    Really interesting article on Trump campaign office in Tampa

    NYT keep finding the reality of his support isn't the way they wish it was.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/us/donald-trumps-tampa-office-is-an-unlikely-melting-pot.html?smid=tw-share&referer=

    Again the MSM media in US are missing it....Like here with the focus on Nick Griffin being a racist and then trying to tar Farage with the same brush, and still scratching their head how UKIP can be polling higher and higher despite the best effort of portraying him a at best non-PC at worst racist.

    What they are really missing is what Trump is promising is totally unrealistic, just as Farage's message of if only we were in the EU everything would instantly and 100% be much better.
    What Trump is promising is to put the people of America first, second and third. Right across the west the notion is developing that home voters are a low priority for the people they put into power and whose salaries they pay.

    Trump says he aims to reverse that.

    Not an American? get in line.
    The problem is he can't deliver on most of his promises. The wall he can definitely do, he could probably come up with some plan to limit Muslims from entering the US if he really wanted, but all the "well I will just get a better deal and magically all these manufacturing jobs will come back to the US and we are going to handicap China" isn't going to happen, not without impoverishing all of America.
    I guess I agree he can't deliver, but you can see the appeal. His opponents don;t even want to try.
    As I said down thread, this is where the MSM are missing it. They concentrate on the non-PC stuff and scream racist and then scratch their head why he is at all popular, including with some latinos and african americans.

    Normal folk aren't interested in that, they hear a message that sounds appealing on the surface...a bit like why UKIP are still polling well here.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Time for a quango of the great and the good?

    Donnez-moi un break. We have an intelligence oversight committee now. It's been carefully filled with the sort of people who can be relied on to not have an original idea or have the faintest clue about the sort of issues involved in modern electronics and communications.

    http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-members
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,720
    edited March 2016
    Time to go balls deep on Remain winning a landslide now, result will be close to 80/20 in Remain's favour.

    Andy Burnham is betting on a Brexit win

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/burnham-betting-on-brexit/
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048

    MaxPB said:

    On encryption, one does wonder what the likes of Dave and out security services will try and do about it. They want to ban encrypted communications to "catch terrorists, sorry paedophiles, actually we meant normal criminals" but the tech companies aren't going down without a fight, we've seen Apple, Google, Facebook and recently Microsoft come out heavily in favour of data encryption in the US. Will Dave try and ban communication methods that use encryption?

    The US, the UK, the rest of the EU, Australia, and Canada will surely agree a common position, as usual. It makes no sense for any one country to follow a different policy.

    In practice, the US government will lead this, and of course they are not going to compromise the safety of US citizens.
    Thankfully in the US at least the Government are losing the fight with the big IT companies over releasing user information and giving them backdoors.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    My most memorable dream was one where I dreamt I was on my deathbed, knowing I was going to die shortly. I was extremely anxious, not because I was about to die, but because I had something vitally important to tell my wife before I died, and she wasn't at my bedside. I kept asking the nurses whether she was coming, and they kept assurring me that she was, but still she didn't come.

    Eventually she arrived, and I was able to give her the vital instruction: that when she washed up the potato peeler, she must be sure to dry it straight away or else it would go rusty.

    Stop. I just spat out a mouth of tea!
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I had a call from Populus the other day and told them to mind their own business, makes you wonder who responds to pollsters.

    Its good to see you employ your charm offensive indiscriminately. :)
    Yep, strangers asking me my age group, name and address, only weirdos would respond.

    You left the country you were so tired of it, now you're busy telling us what to do.
    Oh dear - I am a UK citizen paying full UK [and Spanish] taxes and have the protection of a British passport. It's sad to hear such bitterness so early in the morning but fortunately the clear blue sky outside and the balmy temperatures beckon and sweeten the pill immeasurably.
    Endless monotonous days of sunny mind-bending ennui tempered by gin and PB.
    We get the picture.
    And hookers. Don't forget the hookers.

    Oh, sorry, thought you were talking about ME.
    What happened to your policewoman friend?
    Moved to Letsbe Avenue.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543

    My most memorable dream was one where I dreamt I was on my deathbed, knowing I was going to die shortly. I was extremely anxious, not because I was about to die, but because I had something vitally important to tell my wife before I died, and she wasn't at my bedside. I kept asking the nurses whether she was coming, and they kept assurring me that she was, but still she didn't come.

    Eventually she arrived, and I was able to give her the vital instruction: that when she washed up the potato peeler, she must be sure to dry it straight away or else it would go rusty.

    Brilliant.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,031
    Mr. Eagles, that's premature. Give it an hour, and Burnham will be predicting the exact opposite.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    Time to go balls deep on Remain winning a landslide now, result will be close to 80/20 in Remain's favour.

    Andy Burnham is betting on a Brexit win

    http://order-order.com/2016/03/14/burnham-betting-on-brexit/

    Shit.
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