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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest online ICM poll has IN and OUT level pegging

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Latest online ICM poll has IN and OUT level pegging

UPDATED. Table showing all recent #EURef poll where ballot question asked pic.twitter.com/br7oqFjeNT

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Comments

  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Where is everybody?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Was I first? I was so surprised I couldn't think of anything else to say.

    Can't believe the Irish election count still isn't finished, pretty similar result to Spain and Portugal last year, clear as mud.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,770
    Using the logic from the general that means a big Cameron win.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Possibly thinking that these polls are becoming more and more questionable or that the algorithms being used by the companies are becoming too clever for anyone's good and understanding.
    dodrade said:

    Where is everybody?

  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited March 2016
    A unique start to the thread. Even the eejits may - eventually - understand dodrade's use of 'original thought'....
  • What an amazing league... not too gutted, could be a gooner.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Jonathan said:

    Using the logic from the general that means a big Cameron win.


    not following that logic.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Momentum with LEAVE. Yay!
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    This may cause the government a few problems up the road:

    https://www.rt.com/uk/332633-austerity-death-rate-rise/

    The absolute death rate is likely to rise over the coming 20 to 30 years across the Western world as the post-WW2 baby boomers begin to die off, and colder winters / potential food shortages going into the 2030 grand solar minimum are not going to help either. After the improvement in 2010, mortality rates have stopped improving - I don't think we should have begun yet to see the impact on the absolute death rate from the baby boomers starting to die off.......whcih in turn raises questions about the performance of the NHS over the past 6 years of this government.

    Funnily enough cold weather last winter was blamed for the high number of deaths in 2015, particularly in January and February of last year, yet the global warmists in the government were telling us using their fallacious made up data that it was one of the warmest winters ever. Talk about joined up government!
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    On-topic:

    Too early to be certain but OGH's table suggests a second derivative shift to BOO. The closer we get to BrExit-day the more we should focus upon the third....
  • The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited March 2016

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    Pretty much perfect results for us Foxes! The football gods continue to smile....
  • That recent Yougov article said that the ratio of 18-24 to 65+ should be 3:1. With this ICM it is just under a 2:1 ratio. Therefore this ICM should show LEAVE in the lead.

    This survey 18-24 had Remain 53% LEAVE 20%. The 65+ are 31% Remain 56% Leave.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    So identical 41:41:18 to the poll five weeks ago. Five weeks in which the Prime Minister has dictated the debate entirely on his terms - and Leave has had a bit of a kicking.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    So identical 41:41:18 to the poll five weeks ago. Five weeks in which the Prime Minister has dictated the debate entirely on his terms - and Leave has had a bit of a kicking.

    I think honours have been pretty much divided since then.

    But, it's good to see so many people resist "too poor, too thick, too small" as an argument against Leave.

  • ViceroyViceroy Posts: 128
    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Jonathan said:

    Using the logic from the general that means a big Cameron win.

    For that to work, it requires Leave = Ed Miliband. Sure, Leave has been a little unfocussed so far - but it's not been anything like Miliband crap.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Man Utd could win it lol
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Pulpstar said:

    Man Utd could win it lol

    I'm thinking the Premier League haven't told us about the one off fine for winning it in 2015/6
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    On-topic:

    Too early to be certain but OGH's table suggests a second derivative shift to BOO. The closer we get to BrExit-day the more we should focus upon the third....

    and we haven't got past 13 / 14th March when the cycle is going to run in favour of LEAVE.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Man Utd could win it lol

    Pep could be managing Citeh in the Europa league.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    I presume because City didn't play like they did on Sunday.

    Meantime Chelsea are eight points off 4th!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2016
    This is not a good week for my fantasy football team
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    Thank the lucky Star's your not a Bradford City fan.

    A win yesterday would have put us in the playoff's but we lose at home to the bottom side of the division(Colchester U) who haven't won in 19 games and who now has the double over us ;-)
  • The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    Pretty much perfect results for us Foxes! The football gods continue to smile....
    I'm not unhappy at all - still 3 points ahead of Arsenal AND £200 quid up after my hedge on the spanners at 7/2,,,,,
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    I presume because City didn't play like they did on Sunday.

    Meantime Chelsea are eight points off 4th!
    What a travesty it would be if they managed that, after such a season.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Thinking about it wouldn't it be funny if Guardiola takes over at City and they are not in the CL.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    Viceroy said:

    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?

    I've always felt Leave was in with good shout despite all that. There's just too much antipathy for the EU, or apathy at least, for it not to gain some level of traction, and with some big names and a decent campaign, with even less emotional connection to the EU than some Scots may have for the Union, it should in theory be harder to motivate people for the status quo than might normally be the case. But we'll see.
  • So identical 41:41:18 to the poll five weeks ago. Five weeks in which the Prime Minister has dictated the debate entirely on his terms - and Leave has had a bit of a kicking.

    Absolutely the other way. The print media have been relentless in dishing remain
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    kle4 said:

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    I presume because City didn't play like they did on Sunday.

    Meantime Chelsea are eight points off 4th!
    What a travesty it would be if they managed that, after such a season.
    I agree and I've been going for 53 years!
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited March 2016
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    Viceroy said:

    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?

    How do so many countries manage to survive outside the EU?
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    kle4 said:

    Viceroy said:

    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?

    I've always felt Leave was in with good shout despite all that. There's just too much antipathy for the EU, or apathy at least, for it not to gain some level of traction, and with some big names and a decent campaign, with even less emotional connection to the EU than some Scots may have for the Union, it should in theory be harder to motivate people for the status quo than might normally be the case. But we'll see.
    I think we're all being swayed by our own views and social groups. Best reliable estimate is phone polls.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    I'm sure the bankers can't wait to move to France and pay 75% tax.

    I thought the FT was a serious paper, it's more ludicrous than the Daily Meeks.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    How is France going to woo bankers given their employment taxes??
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    It'd be funny if LVG won the Prem.
  • ViceroyViceroy Posts: 128
    kle4 said:

    Viceroy said:

    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?

    I've always felt Leave was in with good shout despite all that. There's just too much antipathy for the EU, or apathy at least, for it not to gain some level of traction, and with some big names and a decent campaign, with even less emotional connection to the EU than some Scots may have for the Union, it should in theory be harder to motivate people for the status quo than might normally be the case. But we'll see.
    Agreed.

    On both sides in the Scottish referendum there was a connection to Britishness and Scottishness whereas with the EU there is absolutely no feeling of that so people will be purely voting on which arguments make most sense as opposed to gut feeling (for example many Scots supporting independence would support it no matter what much as I would EU exit) which cannot be overcome with any amount of argument.

    The more I see Remain using absurd claims of doom the happier I am, and the sooner they make themselves look ridiculous the better.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    kle4 said:

    The Spurs fans are behind the sofa, Liverpool fans are on the ceiling, Arsenal fans are on hold for the Samiritans

    I'm peed off.

    Why couldn't we have played like this on Sunday?
    I presume because City didn't play like they did on Sunday.

    Meantime Chelsea are eight points off 4th!
    What a travesty it would be if they managed that, after such a season.
    I agree and I've been going for 53 years!
    If they have the fourth highest point total then they deserve to be fourth.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Viceroy said:

    so people will be purely voting on which arguments make most sense as opposed to gut feeling (for example many Scots supporting independence would support it no matter what much as I would EU exit).

    Uh, this seems a little self-contradictory
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Jonathan said:

    Using the logic from the general that means a big Cameron win.

    For that to work, it requires Leave = Ed Miliband. Sure, Leave has been a little unfocussed so far - but it's not been anything like Miliband crap.
    Have you seen Leave eat a bacon sandwich?
  • Pulpstar said:

    It'd be funny if LVG won the Prem.

    You mean the 'kids'
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020

    I'm sure the bankers can't wait to move to France and pay 75% tax.

    I thought the FT was a serious paper, it's more ludicrous than the Daily Meeks.

    It doesn't even make sense, surely France tries to woo businesses to their country anyway. It might make them marginally more attractive but all countries compete for business as it is.

  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



  • ViceroyViceroy Posts: 128

    Viceroy said:

    so people will be purely voting on which arguments make most sense as opposed to gut feeling (for example many Scots supporting independence would support it no matter what much as I would EU exit).

    Uh, this seems a little self-contradictory
    I'll re-word.

    What I mean is that I feel the majority of those supporting our EU membership do so not out of any conviction or love of the European Union but more so as they believe it is needed for our prosperity/they do not want to rock the boat.

    If you look at the polling numbers for Norway and Switzerland on EU membership I think it is clear to see how quickly pro-EU feeling would drop away after we'd left. I think the last poll in Norway was 70% against joining and 15% for.

  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Viceroy said:

    kle4 said:

    Viceroy said:

    If we think back to the Scottish referendum the later months/weeks had a shift to independence despite the entire political and media establishment publishing daily threats of the Scots dared to vote the wrong way.

    Anybody else on the Leave side like me feel rather optimistic?

    I've always felt Leave was in with good shout despite all that. There's just too much antipathy for the EU, or apathy at least, for it not to gain some level of traction, and with some big names and a decent campaign, with even less emotional connection to the EU than some Scots may have for the Union, it should in theory be harder to motivate people for the status quo than might normally be the case. But we'll see.
    Agreed.

    On both sides in the Scottish referendum there was a connection to Britishness and Scottishness whereas with the EU there is absolutely no feeling of that so people will be purely voting on which arguments make most sense as opposed to gut feeling (for example many Scots supporting independence would support it no matter what much as I would EU exit) which cannot be overcome with any amount of argument.

    The more I see Remain using absurd claims of doom the happier I am, and the sooner they make themselves look ridiculous the better.
    Absolutely. They really can't help themselves. As I've said before, the turning point of 1st October 2015 was the peak in government. And governments all around the world have told too many lies, so much so that people simply have a default position of believing the opposite. That's behind the rise of Trump across the pond, and people rising up against government virtually everywhere in some form in Europe. Its all interlinked.

    And Mr Blair is perplexed by it all too:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/2016-u-s-presidential-election/former-uk-prime-minister-says-politics-has-changed/
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    Sean_F said:

    How do so many countries manage to survive outside the EU?

    Bloody odd isn't it how so many countries seem to be doing so well outside of the EU? With one arm tied behind their back you would assume they must be floundering, but some how they manage. It almost seems as though the EU isn't some fantastically competitive and productive trading block but a bit of a millstone.
  • glw said:

    I'm sure the bankers can't wait to move to France and pay 75% tax.

    I thought the FT was a serious paper, it's more ludicrous than the Daily Meeks.

    It doesn't even make sense, surely France tries to woo businesses to their country anyway. It might make them marginally more attractive but all countries compete for business as it is.

    Yes , what effect are threats from France going to have? Probably help the LEAVE vote!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Interesting how the same story can be reported in two different ways....

    Telegraph - Lord Rose says Brexit wages will rise
    I - Lord Rose says Brexit will make everybody financially worse off
  • ViceroyViceroy Posts: 128
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    How do so many countries manage to survive outside the EU?

    Bloody odd isn't it how so many countries seem to be doing so well outside of the EU? With one arm tied behind their back you would assume they must be floundering, but some how they manage. It almost seems as though the EU isn't some fantastically competitive and productive trading block but a bit of a millstone.
    Yes but.. 3m jobs!.. isolation! no more trade! Brits on holiday strandard abroad!.. ermmmm ermm you xenophobic racist! Nigel Farage! Little England! Golden days of Empire!
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020

    Yes , what effect are threats from France going to have? Probably help the LEAVE vote!

    It's nearly as clever as getting Mandelson to tell us how we should vote.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Is it me or has Bojo lost some weight ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    Not to mention all the Mercs and BMW's stacked up for eight years before they can come over here.

    Why do intelligent people come out with such utter bollocks, have they no idea what fools they are making of themselves?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited March 2016
    Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell
    Douglas Carswell MP Retweeted Neil Henderson
    That's my next Clacton leaflet sorted. Thanks Lord Rose

    Neil Henderson @hendopolis
    TELEGRAPH: Wages to rise if we quit EU #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016
    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    What's the next scare?

    "British pensioners in Spain without pets to eat, WILL TURN ON EACH OTHER FOR FOOD"

    "In the event of Brexit, electricity from France will no longer work in British cables, leading to blackouts"

  • Cech out of NLD on Saturday as he did his hammy running back from a late corner trying to get an equaliser...

    This season is great for Spurs even when we lose.

    mind you, we're still going to lose on Saturday against the struggling gooners.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016


    WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited March 2016

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    Well they could always buy a Maybach...oh wait they don't make those anymore because people preferred Rollers...they could buy a Bentley instead...oh wait they are made in the UK....erhhhh....
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    There is also the obvious point that a big part of the RR allure is that they are MADE IN BRITAIN. Not made in Bavaria.

    Project Fear is more like Project BS.
  • And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Why shouldn't Business write to their employees if they have concerns at leaving the EU. This is more difficult for leave to 'shout down' and I would expect many more Business's to take the same action. There is a long way to go in this debate
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    glw said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    There is also the obvious point that a big part of the RR allure is that they are MADE IN BRITAIN. Not made in Bavaria.

    Project Fear is more like Project BS.
    Given the vast majority of people buying Rollers also have them custom made etc etc etc, they are about as price sensitive as a millionaire thinking about whether to shop in Aldi or Lidl.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    edited March 2016
    watford30 said:

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?

    Quite the opposite in all likelihood. "I can still afford one, can you?"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    watford30 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y

    "British pensioners in Spain without pets to eat, WILL TURN ON EACH OTHER FOR FOOD"

    That's very funny. I said the danger for Project Fear was that people would start laughing at them.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Why shouldn't Business write to their employees if they have concerns at leaving the EU. This is more difficult for leave to 'shout down' and I would expect many more Business's to take the same action. There is a long way to go in this debate
    Do you think a company should lie to it's employees?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    glw said:

    watford30 said:

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?

    Quite the opposite in all likelihood. "I can still afford one, can you?"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNa-KLhUfU4

  • WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
  • On topic, Martin Boon of ICM says online polls contain too many Kippers, and phone polls contain too many Labour supporters.

    That probably explains the variance between the online and phone polls in the EURef polling
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016


    WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
    So why should be trust them on anything? Besides, they won't rip it up, because actually having the border official in Calais has massively speeded things up. I am sure the French / EU really want all the EU lorries waiting to bring stuff into the UK all piled up for hours extra.

    Just like we will still have trade, because it is in France / Germany etc interest, so is quicker access as well.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    BMW are just one of many companies not least in the car industry. The notion that Nissan employees can be sanguine about leaving the EU is risible. And lots and lots of jobs are ultimately dependant on the car industry. Rolls Royce parts come from lots of places and final assembly is in the end not dependent on being here. The fact that RR is not British any more is not a good advert for our competence.
    JLR is another.
    Change would not be overnight but would be there nonetheless. At some point investment elsewhere would affect the situation here.
    Oh no it won't say the leavers. Fine and dandy so long as your job does not depend on their prejudice. Just why should workers play Russian Roulette to satisfy some revenge strategy by a bunch of tory losers.
  • And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Why shouldn't Business write to their employees if they have concerns at leaving the EU. This is more difficult for leave to 'shout down' and I would expect many more Business's to take the same action. There is a long way to go in this debate
    Do you think a company should lie to it's employees?
    Of course not but the way things are going shouting 'lies' is leave's default position if they cannot combat the story
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    They could swim back across the channel to get back home! Oh I forgot, you're only allowed to swim the channel starting at Dover these days.

    The laughing at Project Fear has begun in earnest.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'If you look at the polling numbers for Norway and Switzerland on EU membership I think it is clear to see how quickly pro-EU feeling would drop away after we'd left. I think the last poll in Norway was 70% against joining and 15% for.'

    I'm sure if we were outside now the proportion wanting to join would be very low as well, 15-20%. It would appear very unappetising prospect for most people, the more so with migrant chaos we have at present.

  • WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
    So why should be trust them on anything? Besides, they won't rip it up, because actually having the border official in Calais has massively speeded things up. I am sure the French / EU really want all the EU lorries waiting to bring stuff into the UK all piled up for hours extra.

    Just like we will still have trade, because it is in France / Germany etc interest, so is quicker access as well.
    Have you read the FT article - there is going to be no love lost by France if we leave
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited March 2016
    Add in "shy outer's" (how many small c Conservatives really want to admit to someone on the telephone that they are "loons and closet racists") as well as older people (who vote) being mainly for out and younger people (who stay at home on the day) being for in and LEAVE could win this fairly comfortably...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,943
    This clip is embarrassing for the Romney-robbery GOP strategy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlD4hwzGhdY
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Wow The Sun Frontpage is errhhhhh a bit below the belt.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    watford30 said:

    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    What's the next scare?

    "British pensioners in Spain without pets to eat, WILL TURN ON EACH OTHER FOR FOOD"

    "In the event of Brexit, electricity from France will no longer work in British cables, leading to blackouts"

    The EU will demand we return all their oxygen from our air....and will dump all their carbon dioxide in our airspace, claiming we no longer meet our international obligations.

    Exiting the EU will LITERALLY LEAVE US GASPING FOR AIR.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,020
    runnymede said:

    I'm sure if we were outside now the proportion wanting to join would be very low as well, 15-20%. It would appear very unappetising prospect for most people, the more so with migrant chaos we have at present.

    I was pondering just that the other day. If we weren't already in the EU who would be recommending that we join? The Lib Dems maybe, but that would be about it. It wouldn't even be on the cards.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    The reputation of polling companies took a hammering last May yet the ref polls don't provide much comfort that they have sorted out the problems. The difference between the online and phone polls is huge and consistent - they can't both be right.

    Either ComRes / Ipsos Mori/ Survation or ICM/ YouGov/ TNS/ BMG are happily taking someone's fees for producing duff polls. It doesn't install much confidence. I am surprised the industry is content to go on in this way, rapidly losing credibility.

    If I were spending cash on any sort of polling I would be beginning to wonder if I was being taken for a ride.
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    GIN1138 said:

    Add in "shy outer's" (how many small c Conservatives really want to admit to someone on the telephone that they are "loons and closet racists") as well as older people (who vote) being mainly for out and younger people (who stay at home on the day) being for in and LEAVE could win this fairly comfortably...

    No room for complacency GIN, but that is encouraging for sure.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    BMW are just one of many companies not least in the car industry. The notion that Nissan employees can be sanguine about leaving the EU is risible. And lots and lots of jobs are ultimately dependant on the car industry. Rolls Royce parts come from lots of places and final assembly is in the end not dependent on being here. The fact that RR is not British any more is not a good advert for our competence.
    JLR is another.
    Change would not be overnight but would be there nonetheless. At some point investment elsewhere would affect the situation here.
    Oh no it won't say the leavers. Fine and dandy so long as your job does not depend on their prejudice. Just why should workers play Russian Roulette to satisfy some revenge strategy by a bunch of tory losers.
    Woe! Woe! And thrice Woe!
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    hunchman said:

    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    They could swim back across the channel to get back home! Oh I forgot, you're only allowed to swim the channel starting at Dover these days.

    The laughing at Project Fear has begun in earnest.
    I noticed it on QT a few weeks ago when some idiot mentioned losing 3m jobs, the audience just laughed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016


    WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
    So why should be trust them on anything? Besides, they won't rip it up, because actually having the border official in Calais has massively speeded things up. I am sure the French / EU really want all the EU lorries waiting to bring stuff into the UK all piled up for hours extra.

    Just like we will still have trade, because it is in France / Germany etc interest, so is quicker access as well.
    Have you read the FT article - there is going to be no love lost by France if we leave
    Yes and it is full of BS. When has there ever been much love lost between UK and France? All the French bankers aren't going back to France, the world isn't going to end.

    I am very much in the SO camp. I don't believe in reality that much will change. We will still trade with the EU, we will still have to conform to a huge number of their regulations in order to sell, and we will likely still have to have lots of free movement. Now the question is really not much change, is it really worth it then. That is a more difficult question.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    runnymede said:

    'If you look at the polling numbers for Norway and Switzerland on EU membership I think it is clear to see how quickly pro-EU feeling would drop away after we'd left. I think the last poll in Norway was 70% against joining and 15% for.'

    I'm sure if we were outside now the proportion wanting to join would be very low as well, 15-20%. It would appear very unappetising prospect for most people, the more so with migrant chaos we have at present.

    On the other hand, polls calling for a looser relationship than their current EEA/EFTA with Schengen also score very poorly.
  • Sean_F said:

    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    BMW are just one of many companies not least in the car industry. The notion that Nissan employees can be sanguine about leaving the EU is risible. And lots and lots of jobs are ultimately dependant on the car industry. Rolls Royce parts come from lots of places and final assembly is in the end not dependent on being here. The fact that RR is not British any more is not a good advert for our competence.
    JLR is another.
    Change would not be overnight but would be there nonetheless. At some point investment elsewhere would affect the situation here.
    Oh no it won't say the leavers. Fine and dandy so long as your job does not depend on their prejudice. Just why should workers play Russian Roulette to satisfy some revenge strategy by a bunch of tory losers.
    Woe! Woe! And thrice Woe!
    I doubt the workers in these companies would appreciate your sceptism
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    Sean_F said:

    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    BMW are just one of many companies not least in the car industry. The notion that Nissan employees can be sanguine about leaving the EU is risible. And lots and lots of jobs are ultimately dependant on the car industry. Rolls Royce parts come from lots of places and final assembly is in the end not dependent on being here. The fact that RR is not British any more is not a good advert for our competence.
    JLR is another.
    Change would not be overnight but would be there nonetheless. At some point investment elsewhere would affect the situation here.
    Oh no it won't say the leavers. Fine and dandy so long as your job does not depend on their prejudice. Just why should workers play Russian Roulette to satisfy some revenge strategy by a bunch of tory losers.
    Woe! Woe! And thrice Woe!
    I doubt the workers in these companies would appreciate your sceptism
    Maybe not, but I think most of us are sceptical when a salesman is promising us horrors if we don't buy his product.
  • On topic, Martin Boon of ICM says online polls contain too many Kippers, and phone polls contain too many Labour supporters.

    That probably explains the variance between the online and phone polls in the EURef polling

    Why do ICM polls have too many 18-24 voters and too few 65+ voters?

  • WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
    So why should be trust them on anything? Besides, they won't rip it up, because actually having the border official in Calais has massively speeded things up. I am sure the French / EU really want all the EU lorries waiting to bring stuff into the UK all piled up for hours extra.

    Just like we will still have trade, because it is in France / Germany etc interest, so is quicker access as well.
    Have you read the FT article - there is going to be no love lost by France if we leave
    Yes and it is full of BS. When has there ever been much love lost between UK and France? All the French bankers aren't going back to France, the world isn't going to end.

    I am very much in the SO camp. I don't believe in reality that much will change. We will still trade with the EU, we will still have to conform to a huge number of their regulations in order to sell, and we will likely still have to have lots of free movement. Now the question is really not much change, is it really worth it then. That is a more difficult question.
    Whether it is or not these stories nearer the time will not help leave and it is interesting that the Conservative MP for Dover is very much for remain
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:

    LucyJones said:

    Tomorrow's Project Fear's headline "French to end Calais deal if UK exit EU" is getting a rehash in tomorrow papers. BBC tried that this one last week.

    In case of Brexit, Calais is presumably going to be filled with all those Brits who have been left stranded on holiday, surely?

    "British tourists could be left STRANDED ABROAD if voters back Brexit, ministers warn"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468878/Brexit-destabilise-Britain-DECADE-uncertainty-jobs-banks-health-farming-Government-claims-official-report.html#ixzz41mnXIv5y



    They could swim back across the channel to get back home! Oh I forgot, you're only allowed to swim the channel starting at Dover these days.

    The laughing at Project Fear has begun in earnest.
    I noticed it on QT a few weeks ago when some idiot mentioned losing 3m jobs, the audience just laughed.
    Its so easy to debunk. If the EU was at or near full employment then it would be a different game but with stats like 60% youth unemployment in Greece and general sclerosis of labour markets in the EU, quite frankly they've got a brass neck to claim things like that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited March 2016
    hunchman said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Add in "shy outer's" (how many small c Conservatives really want to admit to someone on the telephone that they are "loons and closet racists") as well as older people (who vote) being mainly for out and younger people (who stay at home on the day) being for in and LEAVE could win this fairly comfortably...

    No room for complacency GIN, but that is encouraging for sure.
    Cameron has made it a lot easier for LEAVE than it might have been too be honest.

    I still can't believe that he really thought he could get away with his shambles of a "renegotiation" and everyone would just meekly follow him, like they did Wilson in 1975, into voting to REMAIN,

    In an era when people are gravitating towards "outsiders" he has put himself totally on the side of the elites... If he'd been really serious about his renegotiation and had been prepared to walk away from the EU, he too could have presented himself as an "outsider" who has taken on the EU elite and won.... But as it is his renegotiation was a sham and he and Osborne just look silly trying to pretend otherwise...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    edited March 2016
    no post

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,715
    edited March 2016

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Why shouldn't Business write to their employees if they have concerns at leaving the EU. This is more difficult for leave to 'shout down' and I would expect many more Business's to take the same action. There is a long way to go in this debate
    Do you think a company should lie to it's employees?
    During the Scottish IndyRef, there was a poster here called "hamiltonace" who had made it crystal clear to his employees that he expected them to be supporting a "No" vote.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    If there was any reason to take polling seriously this would be very encouraging for Leave because Remain have been throwing the kitchen sink at this for the last fortnight and the Leave efforts have been distinctly sub-optimal.

    But there isn't. So we carry on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016


    WooHoo. After #Brexit the French will give us Calais.

    Apparently.

    When the BBC tried this story last week, they had a former senior immigration official who made them look very silly very quickly....for starters it is nothing to do with the EU. Perhaps the French are going to rip up a long standing agreement in spite, but if they are going to do that why should be trust them on anything.
    Actually that is exactly what the FT article says they will do
    So why should be trust them on anything? Besides, they won't rip it up, because actually having the border official in Calais has massively speeded things up. I am sure the French / EU really want all the EU lorries waiting to bring stuff into the UK all piled up for hours extra.

    Just like we will still have trade, because it is in France / Germany etc interest, so is quicker access as well.
    Have you read the FT article - there is going to be no love lost by France if we leave
    Yes and it is full of BS. When has there ever been much love lost between UK and France? All the French bankers aren't going back to France, the world isn't going to end.

    I am very much in the SO camp. I don't believe in reality that much will change. We will still trade with the EU, we will still have to conform to a huge number of their regulations in order to sell, and we will likely still have to have lots of free movement. Now the question is really not much change, is it really worth it then. That is a more difficult question.
    Whether it is or not these stories nearer the time will not help leave and it is interesting that the Conservative MP for Dover is very much for remain
    I am sure Project Fear will be very successful. It doesn't mean we can't point at the Emperor with no clothes when a nonsense claim is made.

    As I stated yesterday, where I see things changing would be for example...Spain / Portugal is not going to close their borders to Brit ex-pats living there, but what they will do is bring in things like making them buy private health insurance. These are much more likely knock-on effects of if we were to leave the EU, and would directly affect a lot of people.

    If I currently had a nice life as an ex-pat in Spain, that sort of prospect would probably have me voting to stay, rather than nonsense claims of being booted on the next boat to Southampton.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Sean_F said:

    watford30 said:

    And the Guardian will more Project Fear...I am sure (and willing to be corrected) but we don't actually flog many Rollers to the EU, to France it is basically bugger all. The big market these days is the Arabs.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/705154297219178496

    Is anyone in the EU paying £200K for a car really going to be put off the purchase if the price goes up by a few %?
    BMW are just one of many companies not least in the car industry. The notion that Nissan employees can be sanguine about leaving the EU is risible. And lots and lots of jobs are ultimately dependant on the car industry. Rolls Royce parts come from lots of places and final assembly is in the end not dependent on being here. The fact that RR is not British any more is not a good advert for our competence.
    JLR is another.
    Change would not be overnight but would be there nonetheless. At some point investment elsewhere would affect the situation here.
    Oh no it won't say the leavers. Fine and dandy so long as your job does not depend on their prejudice. Just why should workers play Russian Roulette to satisfy some revenge strategy by a bunch of tory losers.
    Woe! Woe! And thrice Woe!
    I doubt the workers in these companies would appreciate your sceptism
    I thought all the jobs were going if we didn't join the Euro, are the car manufacturers still waiting to find suitable premises overseas? Or was that the same as this, scaremongering garbage.
This discussion has been closed.