I like the way you are thinking and agree with where you are coming form, but before we start with a new tax an the associated burocracy, can I suggest that we abolish NI (which non UK don't pay) and increases Income tax, it would have the same effect as you state above, but with the added advantage that it will save burocracy, and therefor cost.
I didn't realise that non UK citizens didn't pay NI? Is that correct? If it were then that is immediate incentive to employers to take non UK workers instead of UK workers.
Can someone confirm this is correct as I have not heard of it before?
They also pay university fees (except in Scotland). A claim to the contrary that was slipped in earlier in the debate.
Thay do pay universe Tuition Fees, but at the UK i.e. subsidised by UK taxpayer, rate rater than the (higher) international rate, paid by others e.g. US or Chines students.
And vice versa, of course.
Yes, But I belief that there are a lot more EU students in UK university's that the other way round, mostly because they are better at learning English than we are at learning other langwiages.
Actually, a lot of top European unis teach in English. There has been a lot of rumblings about some German uni's going totally English only for some courses. There is also the small matter that there are more high ranking UK universities than other EU countries.
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
What does it matter? The important thing is that they are. That's what will matter come the Brexit negotiations.
Of course, it matters, especially should it come to Brexit negotiations. If one doesn't understand what is motivating the chap on the other side of the table then one is not going to get the best deal, if, indeed, any deal. Understanding why someone is asking for something is the key to successful negotiation on a win-win basis. As you are an international businessman I am astonished that point has escaped you.
I am not a businessman. I was a founder of the business, but leave it to others do the negotiating these days. They are better at it than me. I do the ideas and content creation.
But in my experience the negotiating bottom line is to understand the other side's bottom line. Eastern European countries benefit hugely from having their citizens in other EU member states: less pressure on the domestic jobs market, lower welfare costs, more foreign currency, acquisition of skills and so on. If we ask them to give that up, what can we give them instead given their exports to the UK are relatively inconsequential.
Of all the countries in the EU, it is the Eastern European countries that have the most to lose from doing a deal with the UK. We are only major European nation to take part in the rapid reaction forces. Would you really have confidence in Germany coming to the Baltic's aid against Russia??
I've just read Rachel Johnson's steaming pile of tosh in the Sunday Mail. I seriously hope she gave any fee for this to charity. Boris appeared from his study looking "dishevelled" and they then he played tennis in his "mud-encrusted" trainers. Are we led to believe he is even more scruffy in private, than he is in public. Who would have thought it?
So he has a "bolt-hole" in Oxfordshire eh! Perhaps it's next door to Jack Straw's country pile, where no doubt he escaped from the "burka-clad" ladies of Blackburn. Or perhaps it's near Nick Clegg's or David Cameron's house?
If we are not reading about Islington dinner parties, then it's frozen lasagne in Oxfordshire - oh for goodness sake!
There are about seven countries with which we have surpluses.
With our economy increasingly in the services sector, what is the effect of the single market in services of Brexit?
The single market is still incomplete in services, with various non-tariff barriers. There has been a drive to reduce these over recent decades. Surely this trend will stop or even reverse if we leave the EU and negotiate some sort of EFTA deal.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever linked to the Civitas report, "Myth and Paradox of the Single Market". Dominic Lawson refers to it is his column in today's Sunday Times. An interesting read which attempts to quantify the economic benefits of the Single Market. The overall conclusion is that there is little actual evidence that the UK has benefitted from membership of the UK.
From that report: "To find out whether membership of the EU confers any advantage in services trade, the growth rates of the services exports of 20 member countries to other EU members between 2004 and 2012 were compared with those of 19 non-member countries. There is no statistically significant difference between them. By this measure, therefore, the advantages of members and the disadvantages of nonmembers in the ‘single market’ in services are both illusions."
Dominic Lawson: "Burrage, a former lecturer at the London School of Economics specialising in comparative analysis of industrial enterprise, has, by the most direct statistical means, refuted some of the cherished Whitehall assumptions underlying the debate about British membership of the EU.
Using publicly available official trade figures, he reveals that whereas, in the years of Britain’s membership of the Common Market, 1973-93, our exports to the rest of the organisation’s members increased by much more than those of leading non-members (such as the USA, Canada and Australia), since the inauguration of the single market in 1993, those countries’ exports to the EU have grown more rapidly than ours.
Indeed, by 2011, for the first time since 1972, the value of US goods exported to the EU exceeded that of UK goods. This destroys the absurd argument that it is necessary to be part of the single market to sell profitably into it — or that an exporting country must agree to an open border for EU citizens."
The data clearly shows that most migration from the UK to other parts of the EU involves people who do not have jobs to go to. Why would it be easy to work something out on retirement? What do we give up to allow hundreds of thousands of Brits to retire in EU countries on the same basis as they are able to now?
They would be a fool not to. Pensioners, who don't spend British money into the local economy, don't take local jobs, and don't depend on handouts from the state, as I said earlier what is not to like. Spain was knee deep in British pensioners before 1972, my grandparents for example, lived in Benidorm.
I like the way you are thinking and agree with where you are coming form, but before we start with a new tax an the associated burocracy, can I suggest that we abolish NI (which non UK don't pay) and increases Income tax, it would have the same effect as you state above, but with the added advantage that it will save burocracy, and therefor cost.
I didn't realise that non UK citizens didn't pay NI? Is that correct? If it were then that is immediate incentive to employers to take non UK workers instead of UK workers.
Can someone confirm this is correct as I have not heard of it before?
They also pay university fees (except in Scotland). A claim to the contrary that was slipped in earlier in the debate.
Thay do pay universe Tuition Fees, but at the UK i.e. subsidised by UK taxpayer, rate rater than the (higher) international rate, paid by others e.g. US or Chines students.
And vice versa, of course.
Yes, But I belief that there are a lot more EU students in UK university's that the other way round, mostly because they are better at learning English than we are at learning other langwiages.
There are increasing numbers of UK students in EU Universities, many of which run courses in English. Fox jr is looking at some of these for a Masters. Free tuition and taught in English at Uppsalla or Leiden both tempt him. There are English speaking Medical schools in Italy, Hungary, Czech Republic, Romania and Bulgaria. Many of these have fees lower than UK fees. About £6 000 fees and cheaper living costs, with a degree automatically recognised by our GMC? Bargain!
If the degree is de-recognised post Brexit then would have to take the PLAB to get registered, but that should be no big deal for a native speaker.
'There is nothing irrational about refusing to do a deal that leaves your citizens worse off than they are now. If we are going to ask 27 countries to give stuff up, they will want to know what we are going to give up in return.'
So when Canada, Australia or Switzerland do a trade deal with the EU they have to negotiate separately with 28 different countries ?
TSE is far too pessimistic about the PMs prospects.A reminder of forecasts that I cherish. The clunking great fist would knock him out of the ring. The coalition with the LDs would never last. Gay marriage would destroy his reputation with his party base. Scotland would vote to leave the UK. Labour had held so many conversations on the doorstep of the electorate that EMIPM was assured. UKIP would hoover up dozens of seats. And now-after the referendum the party will sack him. Pull the other one. After the country votes Remain the PM will keep calm and carry on. A week is a long time in politics. There are 200 weeks after the referendum until GE 2020. In week 5 the country will go on summer holidays. By the time we get back the referendum will be a faded memory. In about week 150 the PM will stand down at the time of his choice. By week 200 the referendum will be as important to the public as the AV referendum was at the last GE.
'There is nothing irrational about refusing to do a deal that leaves your citizens worse off than they are now. If we are going to ask 27 countries to give stuff up, they will want to know what we are going to give up in return.'
So when Canada, Australia or Switzerland do a trade deal with the EU they have to negotiate separately with 28 different countries ?
No, but all EU member states have to agree the deal before it's signed. That's one of the reasons why they take so long.
The data clearly shows that most migration from the UK to other parts of the EU involves people who do not have jobs to go to. Why would it be easy to work something out on retirement? What do we give up to allow hundreds of thousands of Brits to retire in EU countries on the same basis as they are able to now?
They would be a fool not to. Pensioners, who don't spend British money into the local economy, don't take local jobs, and don't depend on handouts from the state, as I said earlier what is not to like. Spain was knee deep in British pensioners before 1972, my grandparents for example, lived in Benidorm.
That was then. A lot of people in Spain are as wary of the cultural and cost implications of mass migration as we are.
Of all the countries in the EU, it is the Eastern European countries that have the most to lose from doing a deal with the UK. We are only major European nation to take part in the rapid reaction forces. Would you really have confidence in Germany coming to the Baltic's aid against Russia??
Off to walk the hound in the sunshine, but it does look as if the PL title is heading towards a two horse field. Spurs away at West Ham, Arsenal at home to Swansea, Leicester home to WBA. Then Spurs at home to Arsenal next weekend. If Arsenal lose that one they look out of it, and Spurs have a tough week too. Interesting times, both of the favourites never having won the PL before.
There are about seven countries with which we have surpluses.
With our economy increasingly in the services sector, what is the effect of the single market in services of Brexit?
The single market is still incomplete in services, with various non-tariff barriers. There has been a drive to reduce these over recent decades. Surely this trend will stop or even reverse if we leave the EU and negotiate some sort of EFTA deal.
The problem with the single market in services, is that it's much more dependent on the free movement of people than is the free market in goods.
Also much more susceptible to non-tariff barriers surely?
I also note from your link that our trade deficit with the EU was pretty small apart from 2010 onwards. Presumably this mostly reflects the £/€ exchange rate and also the euro-austerity of recent years. If the £ were to weaken then presumably the figures would get back closer to usual.
Nope. Our overall balance of payments deficit with the EU ran at around £30-40 billion a year for most of this century irrespective of exchange rate. Since 2010 it has worsened hugely to over £100 billion but again that seems to have nothing to do with exchange rates.
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
Of all the countries in the EU, it is the Eastern European countries that have the most to lose from doing a deal with the UK. We are only major European nation to take part in the rapid reaction forces. Would you really have confidence in Germany coming to the Baltic's aid against Russia??
That's a NATO issue.
Except neither France nor Germany committed to this reaction force despite being in NATO.
There are about seven countries with which we have surpluses.
With our economy increasingly in the services sector, what is the effect of the single market in services of Brexit?
The single market is still incomplete in services, with various non-tariff barriers. There has been a drive to reduce these over recent decades. Surely this trend will stop or even reverse if we leave the EU and negotiate some sort of EFTA deal.
The problem with the single market in services, is that it's much more dependent on the free movement of people than is the free market in goods.
Also much more susceptible to non-tariff barriers surely?
I also note from your link that our trade deficit with the EU was pretty small apart from 2010 onwards. Presumably this mostly reflects the £/€ exchange rate and also the euro-austerity of recent years. If the £ were to weaken then presumably the figures would get back closer to usual.
Nope. Our overall balance of payments deficit with the EU ran at around £30-40 billion a year for most of this century irrespective of exchange rate. Since 2010 it has worsened hugely to over £100 billion but again that seems to have nothing to do with exchange rates.
I would have said that trebling the deficit was a fairly clear shift from trend after 2010. If it was not due to the exchange rate and Euro-austerity then why do you think it happened?
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
In fact maybe that's why McDonalds can't get the staff. The British are all far too clever making money from old rope instead
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
Precisely. People read self help books to try and gain that bonus. I didn't say it wasn't good to have. I said not having it wasn't an excuse for sitting on your arse watching daytime TV rather going out and trying to support your family. Personally I have never claimed benefit, despite significant periods out of formal work, because I would hate the idea that I was relying on other people to support my family, that's my job. I followed Tebbit's advice and got on my bike, more people should
I don't doubt she has suffered from people making presumptions based upon her skin colour, but then making the following statement also makes her sound like a younger version of Dianne Abbott...
Ms Butler, who was a whip for the last Labour Government, added: ‘There’s one black Tory MP in particular. I won’t mention his name. Ok, Kwasi... really doesn’t like talking to black people in case somebody realises he is black.
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
I like the way you are thinking and agree with where you are coming form, but before we start with a new tax an the associated burocracy, can I suggest that we abolish NI (which non UK don't pay) and increases Income tax, it would have the same effect as you state above, but with the added advantage that it will save burocracy, and therefor cost.
I didn't realise that non UK citizens didn't pay NI? Is that correct? If it were then that is immediate incentive to employers to take non UK workers instead of UK workers.
Can someone confirm this is correct as I have not heard of it before?
They also pay university fees (except in Scotland). A claim to the contrary that was slipped in earlier in the debate.
Thay do pay universe Tuition Fees, but at the UK i.e. subsidised by UK taxpayer, rate rater than the (higher) international rate, paid by others e.g. US or Chines students.
And vice versa, of course.
Yes, But I belief that there are a lot more EU students in UK university's that the other way round, mostly because they are better at learning English than we are at learning other langwiages.
I think that's backwards. We have poor incentives to learn another language, as English is the global lingua franca. That's not so for others, natch. I don't believe that the English are somehow intrinsically poorer linguists.
I see Donald Trump just refused to condemn David Duke this morning, after the KKK leader recently endorsed him.
When did you stop beating your wife...
The question was (after Trump claimed, ridiculously, he's never heard of David Duke):
"But I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you just say, unequivocally, that you condemn them and you don’t want their support?"
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
So what is the conclusion - do EU workers and the firms employing them pay NI at all, or not if they pay NI if applicable in their home countries, or what exactly.
Does the EU still pay a job seeker from the EU £1000 to look in the UK?
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
Why is it dishonesty ? THe "buyer" can refuse the price. What about merchant banks charging over the odds for IPO's say or Trident being built for £100bn when it could be £50bn.
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
It's the assumption that companies have to fill jobs with EU workers because the UK workers who should be filling them are all living the life of luxury on benefits i'm taking issue with. When it sounds as if they're all living the life of luxury on cash in hand jobs (and some of them, perhaps the ones who aren't cheeky enough, claiming benefits as well... )
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
Your work is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay based apron the value they place on that service. They have an option which is shop around and find someone else or play the market.
TBH I find it stunning that as a leftie you are pigeon holing people into minimum paid jobs, reminding them of their level in the pecking order and not to dare to have the temerity to question there worth.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
What have you been smoking ?
I put a flyer through some busy professionals door, saying I will put together his flat pack for £20 an hour, and he phones me up and say he has two bedroom cabinets, how long will that take, I say 2 hours, £40 and he says "Your on!". Where is the dishonesty, a clear offer was made and accepted. I also fail to see how £20/hr for assembling is any worse than that completely standard (in the south) rate of £15/hr for cutting grass... unless you are just trying to wind me up
Still, when Ms Patel gets to be PM or Chancellor or wherever she's going she'll be able to arrange for all us lefties to be given 1,000 lashes each and then all England's troubles will be over, surely
Your persecuted lefties bollox is getting very stale, you need to find some new jokes... the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition would do for a start
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
Why is it dishonesty ? THe "buyer" can refuse the price. What about merchant banks charging over the odds for IPO's say or Trident being built for £100bn when it could be £50bn.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
LOL. Also worth pointing out that previous winners of European Capital of Culture include Stavanger - which is not in the EU.
So what is the conclusion - do EU workers and the firms employing them pay NI at all, or not if they pay NI if applicable in their home countries, or what exactly.
Does the EU still pay a job seeker from the EU £1000 to look in the UK?
The first part is definitely "yes they do pay NI".
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
It's the assumption that companies have to fill jobs with EU workers because the UK workers who should be filling them are all living the life of luxury on benefits i'm taking issue with. When it sounds as if they're all living the life of luxury on cash in hand jobs (and some of them, perhaps the ones who aren't cheeky enough, claiming benefits as well... )
Quite the opposite. I never said living life on benefits was luxurious. I said having the choice to live at home on benefits was luxurious. The reason most of those Eastern Europeans are here doing jobs is because historically they have not had that luxury, if they didn't work they got hungry, so they still have their work ethic.
In the UK, lots of (particularly) single young men feel that the cash difference between working and staying at home doesn't make it worth working. Why should the employer pay much more when someone with better education, who works harder and complains less will come from Eastern Europe and do it happily at that price. Why should the employer pay much more when the value of the labour (what he can sell the results of the labour for i barely any more than rate of pay now.
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
LOL. Also worth pointing out that previous winners of European Capital of Culture include Stavanger - which is not in the EU.
That errrhhh rather torpedoes that well researched claim by the Guardian.
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
Quite the opposite. I never said living life on benefits was luxurious. I said having the choice to live at home on benefits was luxurious. The reason most of those Eastern Europeans are here doing jobs is because historically they have not had that luxury, if they didn't work they got hungry, so they still have their work ethic.
In the UK, lots of (particularly) single young men feel that the cash difference between working and staying at home doesn't make it worth working. Why should the employer pay much more when someone with better education, who works harder and complains less will come from Eastern Europe and do it happily at that price. Why should the employer pay much more when the value of the labour (what he can sell the results of the labour for i barely any more than rate of pay now.
To be honest i'm not really sure that this whole 'argument' has gone anywhere because i'm not sure what the argument is actually about. The basic point was that if we left the EU, either there would be labour shortages in the unskilled economy that would mean a continued large amount of migration to fill the shortages... or the wages offered by employers would have to go up significantly (on the assumption that this would make these jobs attractive to British workers). Which would obviously have a knock-on impact on prices and inflation.
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
I wouldn't live in Sussex and I wouldn't have a garden. I'm not telling you how many hours of shrinkage - at £50-£60 each - it took me to find out why. Those of you who don't need professional help should count your blessings.
To be honest i'm not really sure that this whole 'argument' has gone anywhere because i'm not sure what the argument is actually about. The basic point was that if we left the EU, either there would be labour shortages in the unskilled economy that would mean a continued large amount of migration to fill the shortages... or the wages offered by employers would have to go up significantly (on the assumption that this would make these jobs attractive to British workers). Which would obviously have a knock-on impact on prices and inflation.
If prices go up, the employer has an incentive to invest in machinery to increase productivity. To give an example here in the Philippines, if you go to a cemetery, there are dozens of young guys with garden shears cutting the grass by hand. This is because there is high unemployment for unskilled youth, so they will cut the grass for a pittance. If unemployment dropped and so wages went up, it might be worth the employer buying a couple of mowers, at the moment, it's absolutely not worth it.
There are about seven countries with which we have surpluses.
With our economy increasingly in the services sector, what is the effect of the single market in services of Brexit?
The single market is still incomplete in services, with various non-tariff barriers. There has been a drive to reduce these over recent decades. Surely this trend will stop or even reverse if we leave the EU and negotiate some sort of EFTA deal.
The problem with the single market in services, is that it's much more dependent on the free movement of people than is the free market in goods.
Also much more susceptible to non-tariff barriers surely?
I also note from your link that our trade deficit with the EU was pretty small apart from 2010 onwards. Presumably this mostly reflects the £/€ exchange rate and also the euro-austerity of recent years. If the £ were to weaken then presumably the figures would get back closer to usual.
Nope. Our overall balance of payments deficit with the EU ran at around £30-40 billion a year for most of this century irrespective of exchange rate. Since 2010 it has worsened hugely to over £100 billion but again that seems to have nothing to do with exchange rates.
I would have said that trebling the deficit was a fairly clear shift from trend after 2010. If it was not due to the exchange rate and Euro-austerity then why do you think it happened?
I understand the point you are making. Just saying there really doesn't seem to be any correlation.
Going off on a tangent I wonder if people have a completely different view of what they are prepared to pay, and how they judge what people are charging, dependent on whether the job is something they could do themselves? When getting someone to cut the lawn, or clean the house, or assemble furniture, the ultimate benchmark is the value they place on their own time. Whereas for most people this is irrelevant for getting in a plumber, or getting the car fixed at a garage or having some non-trivial decorating done. For the latter I suspect people are going to be far more observant of what the general market price is and take precautions of getting quotes, references etc etc.
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
I find this quite extraordinary, how does he think a market works? Are British Gas exploiting me when they put me onto their standard tariff when i moved into my new house? I didnt know the market price, or that their standard rate was pretty poor.
Are tescos exploiting me when they charge me £3 for a pack of strawberries they bought wholesale for 45p?
It was a free and fair contract between two people. Neither was coerced or cheated.
Im actually quite flabbergasted that he thinks there was even a semblance of dishonesty in this.
Going off on a tangent I wonder if people have a completely different view of what they are prepared to pay, and how they judge what people are charging, dependent on whether the job is something they could do themselves? When getting someone to cut the lawn, or clean the house, or assemble furniture, the ultimate benchmark is the value they place on their own time. Whereas for most people this is irrelevant for getting in a plumber, or getting the car fixed at a garage or having some non-trivial decorating done. For the latter I suspect people are going to be far more observant of what the general market price is and take precautions of getting quotes, references etc etc.
And, of course, you are describing piecework being performed by folk who have little or no idea of the time involved in any given task.
Remarkably little behaviour is aligned with neo-classical economics101 (or 102)...
Going off on a tangent I wonder if people have a completely different view of what they are prepared to pay, and how they judge what people are charging, dependent on whether the job is something they could do themselves? When getting someone to cut the lawn, or clean the house, or assemble furniture, the ultimate benchmark is the value they place on their own time. Whereas for most people this is irrelevant for getting in a plumber, or getting the car fixed at a garage or having some non-trivial decorating done. For the latter I suspect people are going to be far more observant of what the general market price is and take precautions of getting quotes, references etc etc.
I think there is some truth in that. I certainly assumed so which is why my nights pushing leaflets were in middle-class professional neighbourhoods. The other point is that particularly plumbers and electricians are much more expensive (and rightly so since they require qualifications), so you are likely to want to look more closely at the price. A plumber in Brighton is going to charge you about £60/hr.
The odd thing is the plumber you might see once every couple of years, the lawnmower man probably comes every other week for years. The prices of the later probably makes much more difference to your household budget.
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
I find this quite extraordinary, how does he think a market works? Are British Gas exploiting me when they put me onto their standard tariff when i moved into my new house? I didnt know the market price, or that their standard rate was pretty poor.
Are tescos exploiting me when they charge me £3 for a pack of strawberries they bought wholesale for 45p?
It was a free and fair contract between two people. Neither was coerced or cheated.
Im actually quite flabbergasted that he thinks there was even a semblance of dishonesty in this.
Most economic transactions are dishonest. But I don't expect anyone who buys their strawberries from Tesco to understand this.
It strengthens the hand of the state at the expense of the parent. No good will come of it. The people who devise these things seem entirely unable to comprehend that the views and values that are currently fashionable, and they hold and think are 'correct' are not fixed, they change, as do the people who hold power.
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
I find this quite extraordinary, how does he think a market works? Are British Gas exploiting me when they put me onto their standard tariff when i moved into my new house? I didnt know the market price, or that their standard rate was pretty poor.
Are tescos exploiting me when they charge me £3 for a pack of strawberries they bought wholesale for 45p?
It was a free and fair contract between two people. Neither was coerced or cheated.
Im actually quite flabbergasted that he thinks there was even a semblance of dishonesty in this.
Most economic transactions are dishonest. But I don't expect anyone who buys their strawberries from Tesco to understand this.
Why is it dishonesty ? THe "buyer" can refuse the price. What about merchant banks charging over the odds for IPO's say or Trident being built for £100bn when it could be £50bn.
A decade or so ago the OFT (it may even have been the MMC) decided to deregulate the informal cartel in UK IPOs. Once the merchant banks were freed from the cartel prices actually went up!
The typical price on a UK IPO these days is around 2.25% (vs. 1.5% under the cartel). Compare that to the US markets where the rate is 7% with no price competition between the market leaders.
Why is it dishonesty ? THe "buyer" can refuse the price. What about merchant banks charging over the odds for IPO's say or Trident being built for £100bn when it could be £50bn.
A decade or so ago the OFT (it may even have been the MMC) decided to deregulate the informal cartel in UK IPOs. Once the merchant banks were freed from the cartel prices actually went up!
The typical price on a UK IPO these days is around 2.25% (vs. 1.5% under the cartel). Compare that to the US markets where the rate is 7% with no price competition between the market leaders.
Although those numbers aren't strictly like-for-like.
Off for a bracing beach walk, then a non-Weatherspoons Sunday roast.....
Later.
Well, I'm back, but I see I now have to go and protest outside the Grim Reaper's house with a placard saying "Down with this sort of thing"....
One of those odd coincidences is that Father Jack died on the same day precisely 12 months later as Father Ted
12 months? 18 years!
Indeed .....misread sorry , same date but in 1998. Odd all the same
If I was Father Dougal, I wouldn't be much bothered by a pension plan... You've got 18 years and counting. Hope you can take a joke, lads, says God....
Why is it dishonesty ? THe "buyer" can refuse the price. What about merchant banks charging over the odds for IPO's say or Trident being built for £100bn when it could be £50bn.
A decade or so ago the OFT (it may even have been the MMC) decided to deregulate the informal cartel in UK IPOs. Once the merchant banks were freed from the cartel prices actually went up!
The typical price on a UK IPO these days is around 2.25% (vs. 1.5% under the cartel). Compare that to the US markets where the rate is 7% with no price competition between the market leaders.
Although those numbers aren't strictly like-for-like.
Am less familiar with US IPOs, but thought they were broadly similar - i.e. the gross spread.
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
Bristol has had the dubious honour of being European Green Capital. One of the highlights was a musical recording made underneath a beech tree, but the tree bore no fruit so the rich musical experience was limited. The Mayor is under fire for not releasing accounts. Unsurprisingly Mayor George Ferguson is keen to stay inn the EU.
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
'really..sounds very high... to me.. is it the insurance costs ???
Always get 2 or 3 quotes. Ignorance is no defence unless it is a criminal intent to defraud. This isn't.
He is being an idiot anyway, lots of basic trade style work in the south goes for well over £20/hr without requiring qualifications. Get someone around to paint your living room, £120/day. Get someone around mow your lawn £15/hr. Get someone around to put up a garden fence £20/hr. Mrs Indigo (Senior) is no-one's fool, but being a elderly widow uses a lot of tradesmen to maintain her property, these figures are pretty current and after shopping around.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium.
The dishonesty consists in exploiting the buyer's ignorance of the market price. And of course it applies just as much to the other examples you give. The word "honesty" doesn't appear in market theory - in fact, "caveat emptor" implies that vendors may be as honest or as deceitful as they like - that is to say, that if the transaction isn't criminal, neither Is the price.
The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
I find this quite extraordinary, how does he think a market works? Are British Gas exploiting me when they put me onto their standard tariff when i moved into my new house? I didnt know the market price, or that their standard rate was pretty poor.
Are tescos exploiting me when they charge me £3 for a pack of strawberries they bought wholesale for 45p?
It was a free and fair contract between two people. Neither was coerced or cheated.
Im actually quite flabbergasted that he thinks there was even a semblance of dishonesty in this.
Most economic transactions are dishonest. But I don't expect anyone who buys their strawberries from Tesco to understand this.
What an arrogant little shit.
No. You've got him all wrong. He's being "ironic". Which must mean he's a very subtle sock puppet.
Or, just maybe, he's a paranoid lefty moron who doesn't understand irony!
What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
Bristol has had the dubious honour of being European Green Capital. One of the highlights was a musical recording made underneath a beech tree, but the tree bore no fruit so the rich musical experience was limited. The Mayor is under fire for not releasing accounts. Unsurprisingly Mayor George Ferguson is keen to stay inn the EU.
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Comments
In most of the world it's not that controversial to say that people do a job to support their family, and that any aspects of self-fulfilment are a bonus. I have had a very strange collection of jobs and businesses over the years, many of which wouldn't chose to do, but we needed to pay the mortgage some how. I was an IT consultant when the dotCom Crash happened, and was out of work for about nine months, but the mortgage needed to be paid, so I advertised to assemble peoples flatpack furniture for £20/hr, and was amazed at how much work I picked up after a couple of nights pushing flyers through letterboxes.
But in my experience the negotiating bottom line is to understand the other side's bottom line. Eastern European countries benefit hugely from having their citizens in other EU member states: less pressure on the domestic jobs market, lower welfare costs, more foreign currency, acquisition of skills and so on. If we ask them to give that up, what can we give them instead given their exports to the UK are relatively inconsequential.
So he has a "bolt-hole" in Oxfordshire eh! Perhaps it's next door to Jack Straw's country pile, where no doubt he escaped from the "burka-clad" ladies of Blackburn. Or perhaps it's near Nick Clegg's or David Cameron's house?
If we are not reading about Islington dinner parties, then it's frozen lasagne in Oxfordshire - oh for goodness sake!
From that report: "To find out whether membership of the EU confers any advantage in
services trade, the growth rates of the services exports of 20 member
countries to other EU members between 2004 and 2012 were
compared with those of 19 non-member countries. There is no
statistically significant difference between them. By this measure,
therefore, the advantages of members and the disadvantages of nonmembers
in the ‘single market’ in services are both illusions."
http://www.civitas.org.uk/publications/myth-and-paradox-of-the-single-market/
Dominic Lawson: "Burrage, a former lecturer at the London School of Economics specialising in comparative analysis of industrial enterprise, has, by the most direct statistical means, refuted some of the cherished Whitehall assumptions underlying the debate about British membership of the EU.
Using publicly available official trade figures, he reveals that whereas, in the years of Britain’s membership of the Common Market, 1973-93, our exports to the rest of the organisation’s members increased by much more than those of leading non-members (such as the USA, Canada and Australia), since the inauguration of the single market in 1993, those countries’ exports to the EU have grown more rapidly than ours.
Indeed, by 2011, for the first time since 1972, the value of US goods exported to the EU exceeded that of UK goods. This destroys the absurd argument that it is necessary to be part of the single market to sell profitably into it — or that an exporting country must agree to an open border for EU citizens."
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/dominiclawson/article1672385.ece
If the degree is de-recognised post Brexit then would have to take the PLAB to get registered, but that should be no big deal for a native speaker.
'There is nothing irrational about refusing to do a deal that leaves your citizens worse off than they are now. If we are going to ask 27 countries to give stuff up, they will want to know what we are going to give up in return.'
So when Canada, Australia or Switzerland do a trade deal with the EU they have to negotiate separately with 28 different countries ?
The clunking great fist would knock him out of the ring.
The coalition with the LDs would never last.
Gay marriage would destroy his reputation with his party base.
Scotland would vote to leave the UK.
Labour had held so many conversations on the doorstep of the electorate that EMIPM was assured.
UKIP would hoover up dozens of seats.
And now-after the referendum the party will sack him. Pull the other one.
After the country votes Remain the PM will keep calm and carry on. A week is a long time in politics. There are 200 weeks after the referendum until GE 2020. In week 5 the country will go on summer holidays. By the time we get back the referendum will be a faded memory.
In about week 150 the PM will stand down at the time of his choice. By week 200 the referendum will be as important to the public as the AV referendum was at the last GE.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
The EU runs numerous cultural programmes, including the European Capital of Culture (won by Liverpool in 2008) and funds prizes for cinema, the creative industries and architecture. For instance, the European Union Prize for Contemporary Architecture carries a prize of €60,000 with €20,000 for a special mention. All this would go with Brexit.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/28/brexit-effect-everyday-life
How will we survive...without that opportunity to win €60k prize for Contemporary Architecture. Especially as only three UK projects have even been short listed in the past five years.
The Worthing Birdman costs €300k to run for one day...
In fact maybe that's why McDonalds can't get the staff. The British are all far too clever making money from old rope instead
Ms Butler, who was a whip for the last Labour Government, added: ‘There’s one black Tory MP in particular. I won’t mention his name. Ok, Kwasi... really doesn’t like talking to black people in case somebody realises he is black.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3468170/Black-Labour-MP-Dawn-Butler-reveals-witnessed-incidents-racism-Parliament-mistaken-cleaner.html
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
"But I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don’t know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you just say, unequivocally, that you condemn them and you don’t want their support?"
Theres an easy answer to that.
Does the EU still pay a job seeker from the EU £1000 to look in the UK?
First, let's get real. We each delight in giving offence to the other - or trying to. People who reply to it can only claim not to have taken it.
As to "self-fulfilment is a bonus" I am pleased to learn that you are more intelligent than the authors of self-help and suchlike literature. Nor do I, sadly from your POV, feel in the least bit persecuted.
I think there is a bit of a limit to trying to relate one's experience to those who should give up the 'luxury' and take minimum wage jobs in pretty depressing working conditions, when able to find a way to charge 5 times the minimum wage for doing a minimum wage job.
It called getting off your backside and marketing yourself. Nothing I did required more than a few quids worth of basic tools from B&Q, a bit of shoe leather, and a certain amount of cheek.
There is a girl in my mother's village who spent a week walking around pushing leaflets through people's doors offer to walk dogs, do shopping, run errands of various sorts for £15/hr. She is swamped with work now.
Hell even a basic lawnmower man makes £15/hr and the ones I know are overflowing in work. But you need to be prepared to put yourself about a bit and not wait for it to be handed to you on a plate.
This is the issue. To you, charging over the odds is a "bit of cheek" whilst to me - and, I think, others, it is a form of dishonesty.
Your work is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay based apron the value they place on that service. They have an option which is shop around and find someone else or play the market.
TBH I find it stunning that as a leftie you are pigeon holing people into minimum paid jobs, reminding them of their level in the pecking order and not to dare to have the temerity to question there worth.
Actually I'm not surprised at all.
Indeed if you go back to the 15-17th centuries English merchants and sailors were often pretty good linguists. They had to be. They don't now.
I put a flyer through some busy professionals door, saying I will put together his flat pack for £20 an hour, and he phones me up and say he has two bedroom cabinets, how long will that take, I say 2 hours, £40 and he says "Your on!". Where is the dishonesty, a clear offer was made and accepted. I also fail to see how £20/hr for assembling is any worse than that completely standard (in the south) rate of £15/hr for cutting grass... unless you are just trying to wind me up
I don't know the second part.
In the UK, lots of (particularly) single young men feel that the cash difference between working and staying at home doesn't make it worth working. Why should the employer pay much more when someone with better education, who works harder and complains less will come from Eastern Europe and do it happily at that price. Why should the employer pay much more when the value of the labour (what he can sell the results of the labour for i barely any more than rate of pay now.
The bit Mr IA willfully ignores is LIABILITY as well. If you do a minimum wage assembly line job, you have no liability if you fuck up. If you break that guys wardrobe, or wreck his fence, or mow his prize roses, you have to pay to replace it. Carrying a liability carries a significant cost premium. The buyers weren't ignorant, that was the market price. Maybe you live in a cheaper part of the country. See how much you have to pay for a gardener in Sussex!
Still think something around 60/40 is likely, maybe even better for Remain.
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y
I find this quite extraordinary, how does he think a market works? Are British Gas exploiting me when they put me onto their standard tariff when i moved into my new house? I didnt know the market price, or that their standard rate was pretty poor.
Are tescos exploiting me when they charge me £3 for a pack of strawberries they bought wholesale for 45p?
It was a free and fair contract between two people. Neither was coerced or cheated.
Im actually quite flabbergasted that he thinks there was even a semblance of dishonesty in this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/12176757/Pupils-face-home-quizzes-under-SNP-state-guardian-plan.html
Remarkably little behaviour is aligned with neo-classical economics101 (or 102)...
The odd thing is the plumber you might see once every couple of years, the lawnmower man probably comes every other week for years. The prices of the later probably makes much more difference to your household budget.
The typical price on a UK IPO these days is around 2.25% (vs. 1.5% under the cartel). Compare that to the US markets where the rate is 7% with no price competition between the market leaders.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11905612/Council-waste-tens-of-thousands-on-green-beech-tree-art-project.html
They went that way -->
Or, just maybe, he's a paranoid lefty moron who doesn't understand irony!
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