Are you some sort of idiot? Do you really think that anybody is going to cast a vote based on what I say on here?
You mean....what we write here...it's all pointless?
* bottom lip begins to wobble....eyes get all watery....*
No Mr Marquee, let me explain.
If you're a card carrying Cameroon Europhile you're a right on good guy. Suggest (as I have been for ages) that underneath the spin he is completely vacuous you invite opprobrium and abuse. Of course, to respond is against the rules.
Cameron's loyalists on here tend to be impressionable young men, I was one of those once.
PS I did chuckle at your post, some on here take themselves so seriously
To paraphrase Alex Salmond's, "What are they going to do? Invade?" during SIndy, what are the French and Germans going to do if we leave, refuse to sell us wine and BMW's?
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
I don't really know Norway. I spent some time in Denmark and liked it very much.
But like you I feel at home here. Also, we are beyond lucky to have been born in a prosperous, politically stable and free country. Plus I'm taken by surprise by what a beautiful country this is. Even just travelling by train around the South East I find myself looking out of the window and thinking - my God, this place is OK.
3. We'll get the most amazing outpoaring of anguish from leftie luvvies like Ms Thompson and Eddie Izzard.
4. Polly Toynbee might just go and live in her Tuskan Villa forever.
5. Scotland might B8gger off as well.
Are there any downsides really?
As a kipper I was at odds with Ukip's position on Scottish independence, I wanted them to have it in the same way we want to stand on our own two feet.
It's about mindset, being a hunter not a gatherer, telling the world we're here to trade with everybody, bring it on.
Mealy mouthed politicians have never traded with anybody, they're clueless and self serving.
Are you some sort of idiot? Do you really think that anybody is going to cast a vote based on what I say on here?
You mean....what we write here...it's all pointless?
* bottom lip begins to wobble....eyes get all watery....*
No Mr Marquee, let me explain.
If you're a card carrying Cameroon Europhile you're a right on good guy. Suggest (as I have been for ages) that underneath the spin he is completely vacuous you invite opprobrium and abuse. Of course, to respond is against the rules.
Cameron's loyalists on here tend to be impressionable young men, I was one of those once.
PS I did chuckle at your post, some on here take themselves so seriously
It's hard to think how much more vacuus and ampty you could become.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
Are you some sort of idiot? Do you really think that anybody is going to cast a vote based on what I say on here?
You mean....what we write here...it's all pointless?
* bottom lip begins to wobble....eyes get all watery....*
No Mr Marquee, let me explain.
If you're a card carrying Cameroon Europhile you're a right on good guy. Suggest (as I have been for ages) that underneath the spin he is completely vacuous you invite opprobrium and abuse. Of course, to respond is against the rules.
Cameron's loyalists on here tend to be impressionable young men, I was one of those once.
PS I did chuckle at your post, some on here take themselves so seriously
It's hard to think how much more vacuus and ampty you could become.
Oh I don't know. Your brain cavity does a good impression.
The ABs, graduates and students, London and the south-east are the core constituencies for Remain.
How much of London is actually eligible to vote?
In the past month I have encountered Greeks, Moroccan Spaniards, Dutch Pakistanis, Greek Bangladeshis, Swedes, Australians, Vietnamese, Egyptians, Italian Bangladeshis and Bulgarians in the course of my work in both North and East London.
Most of the UK passport holders have been 55+ and very affluent and markedly different to the majority of non-British citizens who seem most prevalent in London.
I have listened to Afghani's complaining about Eastern Europeans undercutting their minicab wages.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
I would have thought modern travel, cheap phone calls, internet videoconferencing etc has meant world has move in making long distance trade more easy, not less.
Agree that Commonwealth voting is weird hangup from empire we need to get over.
Back slightly more on topic, the above polls are interesting. On the GOP side, it's poor for Cruz who I thought would be the clear second to Trump in SC and very good for Rubio who was last week's busted flush after that awful debate performance. I wonder if this is the post-IA momentum finally reaching SC.
Very poor also for Jeb Bush who would be finished if he trailed in with Carson at the rear of the field.Oddly enough, Bush wasn't too bad on Saturday but it might be a case of too little and too late.
The Dem side is interesting too - I saw one poll on Fox News putting Hillary 65-27 in front of Bernie but this suggests Bernie's spending and the debate have had an impact and as the Dem race is proportional, the better Bernie polls the more delegates he gets and he might get a further bounce if he wins NV on Saturday. This is crunch time for Hillary - IF she loses NV and wins SC well, fair enough - if she wins both, that's probably the nomination secured but if she loses both, it will be a real challenge for her.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
VENUE: QUEEN ELIZABETH II CENTRE, BROAD SANCTUARY, WESTMINSTER, LONDON SW1P 3EE. DOORS OPEN: 17.30 | START: 19.00 | END: 21.00
SPEAKERS INCLUDE: Nigel Farage MEP, Kate Hoey MP, David Davis MP, Tom Pursglove MP, Peter Bone MP, Ruth Lea – Economic Commentator, Sir Bill Cash MP and David Campbell Bannerman MEP as well as additional surprise speakers.
I agree 100%. I'm wondering what the odds are (it is, supposedly, a betting site after all) on OGH getting so hacked off that the pulls the plug on the site..
VENUE: QUEEN ELIZABETH II CENTRE, BROAD SANCTUARY, WESTMINSTER, LONDON SW1P 3EE. DOORS OPEN: 17.30 | START: 19.00 | END: 21.00
SPEAKERS INCLUDE: Nigel Farage MEP, Kate Hoey MP, David Davis MP, Tom Pursglove MP, Peter Bone MP, Ruth Lea – Economic Commentator, Sir Bill Cash MP and David Campbell Bannerman MEP as well as additional surprise speakers.
This GO is not the Chancellor of the Exchequer is it?
Mr. Abroad, low. It survived two years of independence talk. And almost a decade of Mr. Eagles' lamentable failure to grasp the most basic aspects of classical history.
This is the leverage Cameron had, and he's used it to get... nothing.
This is Chicken Little stuff from the krauts. Honestly, people can't seem to deal with the prospect of change. What, precisely, is going to deter Brits from buying VW etc? It's not like the dealer networks are all going to be sucked down to the bowels of Hell if we vote 'Leave'.
What will deter Britains from buying Volkeswagen would be a 20% import tax.
Do you have any concept of the importance of our own car industry to our economy? Do you really think we could win a trade war with the EU if that's what you are suggesting. If we leave the EU we would join the EEA and our terms would probably be worse than the ones obtainable under the renegotiations. In short very little different from now.
I'm not that fussed either way really but it would be funny seeing the political class and Twitterati going into complete meltdown if we did vote OUT.
I mean, personally I'll be voting out because I've always been eurosceptic but I've also voted Con in the two past elections (rather than UKIP) because I recognize there are more important issues.
But if we did vote to LEAVE it would be like throwing a grenade into the entire political class and then standing back to watch the fall out.
I agree 100%. I'm wondering what the odds are (it is, supposedly, a betting site after all) on OGH getting so hacked off that the pulls the plug on the site..
If OGH can survive the wrath of NATS for months on end he can survive the BOO'ers.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
The ABs, graduates and students, London and the south-east are the core constituencies for Remain.
How much of London is actually eligible to vote?
In the past month I have encountered Greeks, Moroccan Spaniards, Dutch Pakistanis, Greek Bangladeshis, Swedes, Australians, Vietnamese, Egyptians, Italian Bangladeshis and Bulgarians in the course of my work in both North and East London.
Most of the UK passport holders have been 55+ and very affluent and markedly different to the majority of non-British citizens who seem most prevalent in London.
I have listened to Afghani's complaining about Eastern Europeans undercutting their minicab wages.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
Thank you for this. Better for Cruz suggesting the earlier Rubio number might be an outlier but with the Donald seemingly coasting to a convincing victory though I do think his actual number may be slightly lower than the polls as it was in IA and NH.
Kasich might feel other states will be more helpful to him but this would be awful for Jeb as has already been suggested.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Meaningless if we can be signed up for things like banking union through Council and Parliament.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I'm not that fussed either way really but it would be funny seeing the political class and Twitterati going into complete meltdown if we did vote OUT.
I mean, personally I'll be voting out because I've always been eurosceptic but I've also voted Con in the two past elections (rather than UKIP) because I recognize there are more important issues.
But if we did vote to LEAVE it would be like throwing a grenade into the entire political class and then standing back to watch the fall out.
Well quite, pb tories blubbing alongside Guardianistas would be a sight to behold.
Are you some sort of idiot? Do you really think that anybody is going to cast a vote based on what I say on here?
You mean....what we write here...it's all pointless?
* bottom lip begins to wobble....eyes get all watery....*
Cameron's loyalists on here tend to be impressionable young men, I was one of those once.
Now into my seventh decade (as I believe is Dr Nabavi), I never thought being labelled an impressionable young man would cross anyone's lips again. Blackburn63 is, in fact, 93 and has problems with drooling.
I agree 100%. I'm wondering what the odds are (it is, supposedly, a betting site after all) on OGH getting so hacked off that the pulls the plug on the site..
If OGH can survive the wrath of NATS for months on end he can survive the BOO'ers.
If we leave the EU we would join the EEA and our terms would probably be worse than the ones obtainable under the renegotiations. In short very little different from now.
Unless they wish to cut off their nose to spite their face there is unlikely to be any trade restriction.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I love the Belgians. They gave us the D'Hondt PR, which is nearly as awesome as AV.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
If I were to emigrate, it would probably be to somewhere on the Adriatic.
Mr Palmer's post stuck a cord with me. The other evening Herself and I were again talking about moving and where we might move to as Sussex is becoming too awful. The choice quickly boiled down to the Southern part of the Netherlands or somewhere around Coimbra in Portugal, both places where we feel comfortable and at home.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
I agree 100%. I'm wondering what the odds are (it is, supposedly, a betting site after all) on OGH getting so hacked off that the pulls the plug on the site..
If OGH can survive the wrath of NATS for months on end he can survive the BOO'ers.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
Mind it's the same record the Labour Party is currently dealing with...
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not trade with the USA Canada Brazil China and India? What kind of tom fool comments are you coming out with now. BMW X5s are made in America. Every 3 and 4 cylinder engine that BMW puts in its cars that it sells world wide are made in Birmingham. Warwickshire, not Alabama by the way.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
again, let's use the banking union issue as an analogy. As of the most recent text, it was never suggested that non-EZ countries would have to sign up. Then there is a fuss that we might have to sign up (never a possibility IMO) and now we are back to the status quo ante of us not having to sign up.
So politically, we are exactly where we started but I suspect it will be portrayed as a huge gain and Cam will shout it loud.
All it shows is that we really never should have had the negotiations.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I love the Belgians. They gave us the D'Hondt PR, which is nearly as awesome as AV.
Huzzah for all things from Belgium.
Belgium is one of our less good ideas, I blame Lord Castlereagh.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not trade with the USA Canada Brazil China and India? What kind of tom fool comments are you coming out with now. BMW X5s are made in America. Every 3 and 4 cylinder engine that BMW puts in its cars that it sells world wide are made in Birmingham. Warwickshire, not Alabama by the way.
I think point is that trade deals could mean we do even more trade with them. Same argument you make for staying in EU.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I love the Belgians. They gave us the D'Hondt PR, which is nearly as awesome as AV.
Huzzah for all things from Belgium.
How do we know it's nearly as awesome given the paucity of threads on the matter?
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I love the Belgians. They gave us the D'Hondt PR, which is nearly as awesome as AV.
Huzzah for all things from Belgium.
Belgium is one of our less good ideas, I blame Lord Castlereagh.
De Gaulle thought we created Belgium to get up the nose of the French, so I say it is one of best ideas ever.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
In a historic period in which the BRIC (minus Russia) economies are experiencing rapid growth and integrating with the global economy, their percentage of overall trade will inevitably increase. This says absolutely nothing about the ongoing importance of anchoring our economic links within our own continent.
'If we leave the EU we would join the EEA and our terms would probably be worse than the ones obtainable under the renegotiations. In short very little different from now.'
More wild, unsupported assertions...really desperate stuff.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Guy Verhofstadt as dependable as Peter Mandelson crossing his fingers at a tell a whopper competition
I love the Belgians. They gave us the D'Hondt PR, which is nearly as awesome as AV.
Huzzah for all things from Belgium.
How do we know it's nearly as awesome given the paucity of threads on the matter?
I've got a thread on it coming up. Looking at the various electoral voting systems being used in this May's elections.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
I need to get my mind out of the gutter.
That's given me the biggest laugh of this morning as I thought exactly the same thing.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
Current implied odds
Rubio 2.11 Trump 2.88 Cruz 3.48 Bush 2.86 Kasich 2.48
Overall POTUS/ GOP book assuming POTUS laid up at those odds. Rubio +14.53 Trump +563.59 Cruz +598.46 Bush -1007.15 Kasich +1541.45 Carson -308.36
'The UK cannot reform the EU in the way it wants because that is not what the rest of the EU want. They never have done and they never will. '
Indeed. There was at least an argument years ago that as we had a veto we could stop the EU developing in ways that threatened British interests. It was a nasty wrecking sort of argument but it was valid.
But then we gave the vetoes away, so even this grotty second-best argument is in the dustbin now. They have their own vision, we have ours - it's time to stop pretending we can square the two.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
I need to get my mind out of the gutter.
That's given me the biggest laugh of this morning as I thought exactly the same thing.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not trade with the USA Canada Brazil China and India? What kind of tom fool comments are you coming out with now. BMW X5s are made in America. Every 3 and 4 cylinder engine that BMW puts in its cars that it sells world wide are made in Birmingham. Warwickshire, not Alabama by the way.
I think point is that trade deals could mean we do even more trade with them. Same argument you make for staying in EU.
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
If I were to emigrate, it would probably be to somewhere on the Adriatic.
Mr Palmer's post stuck a cord with me. The other evening Herself and I were again talking about moving and where we might move to as Sussex is becoming too awful. The choice quickly boiled down to the Southern part of the Netherlands or somewhere around Coimbra in Portugal, both places where we feel comfortable and at home.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
I was in East Sussex recently and thought it really quite lovely. What is it about your bit of Sussex that is now so awful, Mr Llama?
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not trade with the USA Canada Brazil China and India? What kind of tom fool comments are you coming out with now. BMW X5s are made in America. Every 3 and 4 cylinder engine that BMW puts in its cars that it sells world wide are made in Birmingham. Warwickshire, not Alabama by the way.
I think point is that trade deals could mean we do even more trade with them. Same argument you make for staying in EU.
Isn't that what TTIP is about?
That only covers USA and trade talks have stalled due to French agriculture concerns.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
I'm red on Bush and Sanders and very red on Rubio too.
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
If I were to emigrate, it would probably be to somewhere on the Adriatic.
Mr Palmer's post stuck a cord with me. The other evening Herself and I were again talking about moving and where we might move to as Sussex is becoming too awful. The choice quickly boiled down to the Southern part of the Netherlands or somewhere around Coimbra in Portugal, both places where we feel comfortable and at home.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
You constantly eulogise Sussex - and fair enough, it's a beautiful county, in parts
What's happened to make it "awful"?!
Sussex is still a beautiful County, in parts, however its population is increasing very rapidly and by a very large measure but without a commensurate increase in essential infrastructure (transport and health especially). As a result the quality of life is declining below a level we feel acceptable. Hence it is time for us to move.
'The UK cannot reform the EU in the way it wants because that is not what the rest of the EU want. They never have done and they never will. '
Indeed. There was at least an argument years ago that as we had a veto we could stop the EU developing in ways that threatened British interests. It was a nasty wrecking sort of argument but it was valid.
But then we gave the vetoes away, so even this grotty second-best argument is in the dustbin now. They have their own vision, we have ours - it's time to stop pretending we can square the two.
You could make exactly the same argument to advocate giving up on politics altogether. It's a weak-minded approach to the world.
"The [insert faction of choice] cannot reform the UK in the way they want because that is not what the rest of the UK wants. They never have done and they never will."
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
I'm red on Bush and Sanders and very red on Rubio too.
Not sure whether to moderate that or not.
You're probably fine, but be prepared for some squeaky bum time with Sanders and Rubio potentially.
I'm red the Democrats, but thats due to a dutch republican strategy in the POTUS market which I should be able to reverse/unwind in time.
It really does have nothing to do with the Commonwealth.
There's still a nostalgic "out" view that says that if we withdrew we could have lots of trade with Australia, Canada etc. - I had an email from a former constituent this morning saying he was voting "Leave" for that reason. I think he's deluded - rightly or wrongly, the world has moved on - but it may still be a factor for some.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
You pick out Australia and Canada and miss out the US, Brazil, India and China. The point you are ignoring is that our trade with the EU is continually falling year after year as a percentage of our overall trade whilst trade with the rest of the world continues to increase and would jump significantly if we were not bound by the idiotic restrictions placed on external trade by the EU.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not trade with the USA Canada Brazil China and India? What kind of tom fool comments are you coming out with now. BMW X5s are made in America. Every 3 and 4 cylinder engine that BMW puts in its cars that it sells world wide are made in Birmingham. Warwickshire, not Alabama by the way.
I think point is that trade deals could mean we do even more trade with them. Same argument you make for staying in EU.
Isn't that what TTIP is about?
That only covers USA and trade talks have stalled due to French agriculture concerns.
The French being protectionist again. A disadvantage for their consumers and businesses.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
I'm red on Bush and Sanders and very red on Rubio too.
Not sure whether to moderate that or not.
You're probably fine, but be prepared for some squeaky bum time with Sanders and Rubio potentially.
I'm red the Democrats, but thats due to a dutch republican strategy in the POTUS market which I should be able to reverse/unwind in time.
I remain on Rubio and Bush. There's still time for a turn around.
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
If I were to emigrate, it would probably be to somewhere on the Adriatic.
Mr Palmer's post stuck a cord with me. The other evening Herself and I were again talking about moving and where we might move to as Sussex is becoming too awful. The choice quickly boiled down to the Southern part of the Netherlands or somewhere around Coimbra in Portugal, both places where we feel comfortable and at home.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
You constantly eulogise Sussex - and fair enough, it's a beautiful county, in parts
What's happened to make it "awful"?!
Sussex is still a beautiful County, in parts, however its population is increasing very rapidly and by a very large measure but without a commensurate increase in essential infrastructure (transport and health especially). As a result the quality of life is declining below a level we feel acceptable. Hence it is time for us to move.
Traffic is rapidly increasing in the South as we return to a more normal level of economic activity and we have population growth. Problem was that in the Labour years road building virtually stopped and Prescott even boasted that he would halve the use of cars. He almost did when we had the economic depression.
I see that Tom O'Carroll, former head of Paedophile Information Exchange, has joined the Labour Party, according to the Times.
And been suspended, when some of the few sensible Labour MPs left (yes, there are some) raised merry hell.
There's some rule preventing them from expelling him pdq - though frankly I'd take whatever legal risk they might run.
They'd be stupid not to follow procedure. A legal challenge forcing them to take him back would look even worse. The worst of damage is already done though.
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
I'm red on Bush and Sanders and very red on Rubio too.
Not sure whether to moderate that or not.
You're probably fine, but be prepared for some squeaky bum time with Sanders and Rubio potentially.
I'm red the Democrats, but thats due to a dutch republican strategy in the POTUS market which I should be able to reverse/unwind in time.
I remain on Rubio and Bush. There's still time for a turn around.
The "establishment" candidate surely is Rubio now.
If Bush polls below Carson in South Carolina, that'll be a bigger failure than Liz Kendall's bid for Labour leader.
Incidentally I also "feel European" but that doesn't lead me to having negative feelings about the UK. On the contrary it's my favourite European country.
I sometimes think the basic divide in politics is between the woe-is-us-everything-is-shit brigade (on left and right) and sensibly optimisitic people.
Yes, I think that's right. A lot of people on the fringes of politics adopt outrageous positions in reaction to other people's outrageous positions (our own SeanT is not immune to it), so people who are anti-nationalist sometimes portray themselves as (and for all I know actually are) actively hostile to Britain.
I'm pretty much in your camp. I'm not sure I have a favourite European country, but although I like the lifestyle in Norway I do feel more at home here, and think there are plenty of ways that we shine, without being quite as different from everyone else as we like to think.
If I were to emigrate, it would probably be to somewhere on the Adriatic.
Mr Palmer's post stuck a cord with me. The other evening Herself and I were again talking about moving and where we might move to as Sussex is becoming too awful. The choice quickly boiled down to the Southern part of the Netherlands or somewhere around Coimbra in Portugal, both places where we feel comfortable and at home.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
You constantly eulogise Sussex - and fair enough, it's a beautiful county, in parts
What's happened to make it "awful"?!
Sussex is still a beautiful County, in parts, however its population is increasing very rapidly and by a very large measure but without a commensurate increase in essential infrastructure (transport and health especially). As a result the quality of life is declining below a level we feel acceptable. Hence it is time for us to move.
The Lake District is lovely...... Good pubs and restaurants and empty roads, esp if you stay away from the touristy areas. And the Ulverston Music Festival, sponsored in part by the Cyclefrees is well worth attending. Then there's the Holker Garden Festival for gardeners. The walks along the sands between Millom and Haverigg and up to St Bees are out of this world and for the brave swimming in the Duddon in summer is quite an experience.
...........*Oh God.... stares gloomily out of office window at sunshine and wonders, not for the first time, what the hell I'm doing here....*
By having several competing bodies, the successful LEAVE campaign is demonstrating the benefits of competition compared with the failing monopolistic REMAIN campaign.
So the LEAVE campaign reflects the UK position in the EU - for companies in one EU country to compete with companies in other EU countries. Whilst the REMAIN campaign reflects the French protectionist position of having a single state sponsored competitor at the expense of consumers and businesses.
I see that Tom O'Carroll, former head of Paedophile Information Exchange, has joined the Labour Party, according to the Times.
And been suspended, when some of the few sensible Labour MPs left (yes, there are some) raised merry hell.
There's some rule preventing them from expelling him pdq - though frankly I'd take whatever legal risk they might run.
They'd be stupid not to follow procedure. A legal challenge forcing them to take him back would look even worse. The worst of damage is already done though.
Do political parties do due diligence on membership applications? I wouldn't have known who this guy was and I'd like to know how it comes to light (unless he's shouting it from the rooftops that Labour let him in).
Don't know why he's bothering. I assume people have had it with the Bush family. They must be pretty toxic after Dubya presided over Iraq and then the worst financial crash since the Great Depression...
It's not exactly a great record is it?
If I had the cash, I'd be laying all the Bush I can get my hands on.
My max reds are Bush, Sanders & Bloomberg.
I'm red on Bush and Sanders and very red on Rubio too.
Not sure whether to moderate that or not.
You're probably fine, but be prepared for some squeaky bum time with Sanders and Rubio potentially.
I'm red the Democrats, but thats due to a dutch republican strategy in the POTUS market which I should be able to reverse/unwind in time.
I remain on Rubio and Bush. There's still time for a turn around.
The "establishment" candidate surely is Rubio now.
If Bush polls below Carson in South Carolina, that'll be a bigger failure than Liz Kendall's bid for Labour leader.
I see that Tom O'Carroll, former head of Paedophile Information Exchange, has joined the Labour Party, according to the Times.
And been suspended, when some of the few sensible Labour MPs left (yes, there are some) raised merry hell.
There's some rule preventing them from expelling him pdq - though frankly I'd take whatever legal risk they might run.
They'd be stupid not to follow procedure. A legal challenge forcing them to take him back would look even worse. The worst of damage is already done though.
There are some legal cases worth fighting. I would hope that the Labour party rulebook has some general rule about not bringing the party into disrepute or similar. They need to be seen unequivocally not on the side of paedophiles, though as you say they have already suffered the damage.
Comments
If you're a card carrying Cameroon Europhile you're a right on good guy. Suggest (as I have been for ages) that underneath the spin he is completely vacuous you invite opprobrium and abuse. Of course, to respond is against the rules.
Cameron's loyalists on here tend to be impressionable young men, I was one of those once.
PS I did chuckle at your post, some on here take themselves so seriously
But like you I feel at home here. Also, we are beyond lucky to have been born in a prosperous, politically stable and free country. Plus I'm taken by surprise by what a beautiful country this is. Even just travelling by train around the South East I find myself looking out of the window and thinking - my God, this place is OK.
In general the inclusions and exclusions from the franchise are a historical accident which someone should have a look at one day, but like all these things they're hard to change. Personally I think paying tax and living in the UK for several years should be the criterion, but I can see arguments for restricting it to citizens.
Trump 38%
Cruz 18%
Rubio 14%
Carson 8%
Kasich 7%
Bush 4%
Agree that Commonwealth voting is weird hangup from empire we need to get over.
Back slightly more on topic, the above polls are interesting. On the GOP side, it's poor for Cruz who I thought would be the clear second to Trump in SC and very good for Rubio who was last week's busted flush after that awful debate performance. I wonder if this is the post-IA momentum finally reaching SC.
Very poor also for Jeb Bush who would be finished if he trailed in with Carson at the rear of the field.Oddly enough, Bush wasn't too bad on Saturday but it might be a case of too little and too late.
The Dem side is interesting too - I saw one poll on Fox News putting Hillary 65-27 in front of Bernie but this suggests Bernie's spending and the debate have had an impact and as the Dem race is proportional, the better Bernie polls the more delegates he gets and he might get a further bounce if he wins NV on Saturday. This is crunch time for Hillary - IF she loses NV and wins SC well, fair enough - if she wins both, that's probably the nomination secured but if she loses both, it will be a real challenge for her.
Making this seem like a longing for past glories ignores the fact that the future of UK trade is increasingly with the rest of the world, not with the EU.
Grassroots Out Rally - Friday 19th February
VENUE: QUEEN ELIZABETH II CENTRE, BROAD SANCTUARY, WESTMINSTER, LONDON SW1P 3EE.
DOORS OPEN: 17.30 | START: 19.00 | END: 21.00
SPEAKERS INCLUDE: Nigel Farage MEP, Kate Hoey MP, David Davis MP, Tom Pursglove MP, Peter Bone MP, Ruth Lea – Economic Commentator, Sir Bill Cash MP and David Campbell Bannerman MEP as well as additional surprise speakers.
If we leave the EU we would join the EEA and our terms would probably be worse than the ones obtainable under the renegotiations. In short very little different from now.
I mean, personally I'll be voting out because I've always been eurosceptic but I've also voted Con in the two past elections (rather than UKIP) because I recognize there are more important issues.
But if we did vote to LEAVE it would be like throwing a grenade into the entire political class and then standing back to watch the fall out.
@GuyVerhofstadt: If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
'Erasing Franco's memory one street at a time'
http://tinyurl.com/h33lrgu
Guy Verhofstadt
If Britain doesn't want to be part of further political integration of EU, let's respect & recognise this fact in the treaties #UKinEU
Now you can have a go.
It's not exactly a great record is it?
Kasich might feel other states will be more helpful to him but this would be awful for Jeb as has already been suggested.
Would be nice to see some NV polls.
ComRes phone poll for ITVNews: Remain 54% -6, Leave 46% +6 Excl don't knows https://t.co/BS3FWQqM1J
He's too short already, but he'll probably go shorter. I've got him pretty much neutral right now.
They make a profit from us.
Huzzah for all things from Belgium.
It is all a bit odd because both countries are firmly bound up with the EU project and I am, and have been for decades, firmly of the belief that the EU is a bad thing and the UK would be much better of out of it.
So politically, we are exactly where we started but I suspect it will be portrayed as a huge gain and Cam will shout it loud.
All it shows is that we really never should have had the negotiations.
His previous prediction was the UK will never vote to leave the EU whilst Dave is PM.
He is part of the EUPhile establishment of course so I'm sure his ARSE would say UKWNLTEU
More wild, unsupported assertions...really desperate stuff.
http://order-order.com/2016/02/16/labour-suspends-pie-hacked-off-campaigner/
My jaw is still on the floor
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/699366188435050496
Rubio 2.11
Trump 2.88
Cruz 3.48
Bush 2.86
Kasich 2.48
Overall POTUS/ GOP book assuming POTUS laid up at those odds.
Rubio +14.53
Trump +563.59
Cruz +598.46
Bush -1007.15
Kasich +1541.45
Carson -308.36
Indeed. There was at least an argument years ago that as we had a veto we could stop the EU developing in ways that threatened British interests. It was a nasty wrecking sort of argument but it was valid.
But then we gave the vetoes away, so even this grotty second-best argument is in the dustbin now. They have their own vision, we have ours - it's time to stop pretending we can square the two.
Are the public sure of their responses? We used IRT to find out. Read this on your lunch break! https://t.co/rec1ZyJ6au #TuesdayTreat
Not sure whether to moderate that or not.
A fantastic newscycle story
There's some rule preventing them from expelling him pdq - though frankly I'd take whatever legal risk they might run.
I think I need to say a million Hail Marys to gain absolution.
"The [insert faction of choice] cannot reform the UK in the way they want because that is not what the rest of the UK wants. They never have done and they never will."
I'm red the Democrats, but thats due to a dutch republican strategy in the POTUS market which I should be able to reverse/unwind in time.
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/699564573209198592
FG-FF coalition?
But, Corbyn defies normal political rules, and will crash and burn if he's still there in 2020.
Problem was that in the Labour years road building virtually stopped and Prescott even boasted that he would halve the use of cars. He almost did when we had the economic depression.
If Bush polls below Carson in South Carolina, that'll be a bigger failure than Liz Kendall's bid for Labour leader.
Say what you like about Trump, but no one can question his patriotism.
I will make a very bold prediction. The people of the U.K. will not make PM someone they consider unpatriotic and a threat to national security.
...........*Oh God.... stares gloomily out of office window at sunshine and wonders, not for the first time, what the hell I'm doing here....*
So the LEAVE campaign reflects the UK position in the EU - for companies in one EU country to compete with companies in other EU countries. Whilst the REMAIN campaign reflects the French protectionist position of having a single state sponsored competitor at the expense of consumers and businesses.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/marco-rubio-south-carolina-219310
Visit Parliament
A 30 second preview of what you can see on a tour of the Houses of Parliament this week #halftermlondon. https://t.co/663PyyGOG2