Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what? Resign?
Changes in terms and conditions of contract not necessarily to one's liking have been absolutely standard in the private sector over the last several years. As an example a company that I am a director of, along with many other of course, closed the final salary pension scheme on the basis it was no longer affordable and went to fixed contribution instead.
1 member of staff held out and left the company. Do you think many doctors will leave the NHS?
What percentge?
The NHS cannot afford to lose any Drs not even 1%
Yes it can: there are alternatives. it might not be the ideal outcome (indeed, it wouldn't be), but the government has now called that bluff, confident that it is a bluff.
The thing is, having invested so much time and money in their training, how many are going to walk out now over weekend rotas, just at the point in their career when the decent pay is just around the corner?
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be a likely maximum.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
Frankly 1% or 5% would be a price well worth paying if it puts the BMA back in its kennel.
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what? Resign?
Changes in terms and conditions of contract not necessarily to one's liking have been absolutely standard in the private sector over the last several years. As an example a company that I am a director of, along with many other of course, closed the final salary pension scheme on the basis it was no longer affordable and went to fixed contribution instead.
1 member of staff held out and left the company. Do you think many doctors will leave the NHS?
What percentge?
The NHS cannot afford to lose any Drs not even 1%
There was an interesting contribution from Robert earlier this week which pointed out that the vast majority of doctors in specialities that don't currently operate at the weekend have just got a significant pay increase. It was those who actually did work at the weekends on a regular basis, such as A&E, who were at risk of losing out because they have got very used to topping up their basic pay with a lot of unsociable hours payments.
Given the recruitment issues A&E seems to have I suspect this has been tolerated for a long time as a back door way of paying those in that speciality more. I am not sure I understand the reasoning of removing that incentive and think it may have to be addressed in other ways. I suspect that the number of doctors who can find a better employer than the NHS will be vanishingly small but there is a risk that they will be concentrated in the most high profile of specialities.
Edit. Sorry didn't answer your question. Under 0.5%.
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
At the 2008 Paralympics, one country was doing particularly well and I asked the Australian coach why? He said: ‘They were good at the Olympics, too. They’ve got the best drugs. They can’t be detected.’ We talk to a lot of para-athletes and you hear them saying, ‘He’s totally doped up.’
“There’s also a thing that wheelchair athletes call ‘boosting’, where they put nails in the seat, which they can’t feel because they’re paralysed, but [their] body still reacts and pumps more adrenalin.”
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what? Resign?
Changes in terms and conditions of contract not necessarily to one's liking have been absolutely standard in the private sector over the last several years. As an example a company that I am a director of, along with many other of course, closed the final salary pension scheme on the basis it was no longer affordable and went to fixed contribution instead.
1 member of staff held out and left the company. Do you think many doctors will leave the NHS?
What percentge?
The NHS cannot afford to lose any Drs not even 1%
There was an interesting contribution from Robert earlier this week which pointed out that the vast majority of doctors in specialities that don't currently operate at the weekend have just got a significant pay increase. It was those who actually did work at the weekends on a regular basis, such as A&E, who were at risk of losing out because they have got very used to topping up their basic pay with a lot of unsociable hours payments.
Given the recruitment issues A&E seems to have I suspect this has been tolerated for a long time as a back door way of paying those in that speciality more. I am not sure I understand the reasoning of removing that incentive and think it may have to be addressed in other ways. I suspect that the number of doctors who can find a better employer than the NHS will be vanishingly small but there is a risk that they will be concentrated in the most high profile of specialities.
Edit. Sorry didn't answer your question. Under 0.5%.
A question. For those "easy" specialities such as dematology who theoretically gain from the standard pay increase, does the new contract mean that they will need to start working on the weekend thus getting 7 day clinics?
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
Serves them right. I suspect this has more to do with the BMA's (non-)negotiating tactics than anything else.
Sorry but you have no clue what the result of this imposition will be but you are happy to gamble.
Hope YBS puts you on a 7 day contract "Serves you right"!!
I'm already required to work weekends as needed. That's when code implementations occur.
Was that imposed without you agreeing?
If not we are not comparing like with like are we?
Junior Drs already work weekends on a contract they agreed.
I believe imposition is a huge gamble that may cost the NHS in England dear.
What it might mean is a generation of junior doctors who no longer vote Conservative.
Hardly... work maybe two weekend days a month with the Conservative, or lose a huge pile of cash from Labour soaking the rich, putting up taxes on high earners and expensive properties... not much of a choice really.
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
At the 2008 Paralympics, one country was doing particularly well and I asked the Australian coach why? He said: ‘They were good at the Olympics, too. They’ve got the best drugs. They can’t be detected.’ We talk to a lot of para-athletes and you hear them saying, ‘He’s totally doped up.’
“There’s also a thing that wheelchair athletes call ‘boosting’, where they put nails in the seat, which they can’t feel because they’re paralysed, but [their] body still reacts and pumps more adrenalin.”
Dave hasn't tried to polish a turd. He has tried to polish diarrhoea and the resulting mess is disgusting to all except a few die hard party loyalists.
A truly shitty deal.
If memory serves, in 2013 Cameron set out what he said were his fundamental requirements for his renegotiation, points that would have to be met if he were to recommend the UK remain in the EU. As far as I can see he has achieved none of those points. How then am I to judge the result?
Am I to conclude that as the negotiations have failed by Cameron's own criteria I should vote to leave? Alternatively, perhaps Cameron didn't mean what he said in 2013 and he really has got a good deal and I should vote to stay. The problem with that is it means accepting that Cameron lied to me before so why in heaven's name should I trust him now?
On the whole I think I'll go with my basic instincts.
What really troubles me is that, without the "renegotiation process", had it been a straight "take it or leave it" vote that was promised, and we were now at polling day, I'd find it easier to go with my deeper gut instincts and vote Remain, however much I loathe the EU as it has become. But because voting Leave now not only endorses support for the UK in the EU, but implies support for Dave's shitty little deal, and for everything else that now gets thrown at us for years to come on the basis that "the UK only had 4 particular concerns which were all addressed in the 2016 deal and you can't have any complaints about x, y or z that you didn't negotiate changes on back then", I now find it harder to back Remain.
Dave's Deal has made things worse, not better - if that were possible!
We should all vote LEAVE so that serious negotiations take place over substantive reforms to the EU instead of the sham of negotiations so far.
Cameron could not put forward serious changes up to now because the other EU countries know he wasn't serious about leaving the EU.
Once we have voted to LEAVE then the other EU countries know the negotiations are for real and will be more prepared to concede changes such as a big reduction in subsidies to the farming industry paid via the Common Agriculture Policy.
If we vote LEAVE, then HMG will invoke Article 50, at which point we're leaving and negotiations are just about the UK outside the EU.
A few months back there were frequent discussions about whether to upgrade to Windows 10 or not.
A new data point that may or may not help the undecided: upgrading caused me some problems with my laptop power (the computer would "sleep" after a lack of activity or when the case was shut, but could not be woken up except by restarting it) which I since sorted by downgrading one of my drivers.
The switch has, however, caused problems with my audio that I hoped might be one-offs but unfortunately have proven persistent - Skype calls often crash mid-call due to either "problem with playback device" or "problem with recording device". As someone who uses Skype often for work, this is a serious problem and makes me regret updating my operating system. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a new driver for my headset. And I'm a bit loathe to purchase a new one since my current hardware works perfectly well on my old spare laptop, and the problem seems to be a "soft" one (a new headset may have exactly the same problems).
Just putting this out there in case there is anyone looking to switch for whom this might be a useful anecdote/datapoint.
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
However he appears not to know how to resolve that with 2 simple words.
"I resign"
BMA sounding more and more like the NUM, wanting to dictate their own laws and employment contracts to government ministers.
They need their own Arthur Scargill!
Haven't they got one already in Dr Porter?
Hopefully a number of junior doctors will be savvy enough to recognise who has led them to the position they now find themselves in, where there could have been a deal done this week, probably on better terms than what will now be imposed?
Either way, I suspect there will still be "a deal" on this over the coming weeks...
Incidentally, whatever happened to the Great NHS Winter Meltdown that all the 'experts' and our very own @bigjohnowls were looking forward to?
That's so last year.
BJ Howls is too busy salivating at the prospect of doctor walkouts.
You haven't noticed the winter NHS financial crisis
Perhaps you dont care.
Anyone who thinks junior Drs being on strike is good is an idiot.
But then the Public know who is to blame dont they?
It is quite clear you have absolutely no idea what will happen as a result of these changes and are simply spouting the same old tosh along party lines that the NHS must not be touched.
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
'By far the biggest change is page 5 on protections for non-Euro economies in the finance sector. Rather than confirm that the UK can operate outside EU's single rule book for banks when Eurozone integrates, it now says that UK has to operate by the "corresponding rules" of the ECB.
So in short, it now confirms that the City of London will be completely at the mercy of rules set by the ECB'
I expect Richard N will still have that down as 'real progress'.
Morning runnymede.
I'm still looking forward to your paper on how leaving the EU and joining the EEA would provide more protection. Presumably you are labouring mightlily on this, but so far no mouse has been produced.
On this revised draft, whose is it?
Also I see that the Legal Counsel of the European Council has confirmed that the renegotiation document, if it is agreed, will be legally binding.
It is worth pointing out that the Opinions of the Council Legal Service are non-binding. They are regularly in opposition to the Opinions of the Commission Legal Service (yes there are two separate Legal Services). In the case of a disagreement both would argue their case in front of the European Court of Justice.
They all say they like Cruz because that's what their church and Glenn Beck say. They all don't like Trump, although they like that he's an outsider. They all say that they will vote for Cruz. They all expect Trump to win S.Carolina.
I think today is a good example of why Boris should never ever be leader of the Conservatives, he gave in to the tube unions pretty much every time iirc.
It all boils down to ..Do the British Taxpayers who completely fund the NHS need and deserve a weekend service..like a lot of other Health services around the world. Personally I think we do...
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
It cant
For a final bit of perspective on the slightly apocalytical comments on a loss of 0.3-0.6% of Drs to the NHS over what would be an extended period, the normal *monthly* turnover of Drs in the NHS is around 1%.
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
It all boils down to ..Do the British Taxpayers who completely fund the NHS need and deserve a weekend service..like a lot of other Health services around the world. Personally I think we do...
That's the spin but the dispute was about cutting payments to doctors who are already working weekends to provide that service.
Incidentally, whatever happened to the Great NHS Winter Meltdown that all the 'experts' and our very own @bigjohnowls were looking forward to?
That's so last year.
BJ Howls is too busy salivating at the prospect of doctor walkouts.
Says the silly boy who supports and salivates about contract imposition.
The problem with your many gently cushioned years in the NHS is you don't realise that this is absolutely business as usual in the rest of the world.
It will not end well.
You are happy to gamble.
Thats fine.
That wolf has been cried before. Many, many times.
The NHS has not got any worse. To be fair, it hasn't got any better, either, but it's systems and processes and size means it is unlikely to ever reach the outcomes of more successful healthcare systems.
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
In the case of a disagreement both would argue their case in front of the European Court of Justice.
Who can be relied on to take their independent, politically neutral and non-federalist view of the situation... or perhaps not when they can't even manage to make rulings that are consistent with their previous rulings.
When you're on the side of the Ken Clarke and BJO is furious, you know the minister has made the right decision....
If Sarah Wollaston agrees with imposition, that's a full house, isn't it?
You may recall my theory that Ken Clarke's attacks on Tory-voting professionals such as the doctors and police played a large part in the Conservative's 1997 defeat.
Only 55,000 Dr are still in training ie on junior Dr contracts.
More than 95000 are Consultants Associate Specialtists,Staff Doctors,Specialty Doctors (not junior Drs)
I'm still not sure what your point is, Mr Owls, unless you are suggesting that Junior Doctor roles can only ever be done by Junior Doctors.
But when some of the Junior Doctors went on strike they were at pains to point out that others could cover for them so patients would be safe.
Were Junior Doctors the only ones capable of doing the roles, which they aren't, and were the loss of 1-2% of Junior Doctors to be significant in the whole scheme of things, which it isn't, you would theoretically have a point.
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
Some sort of throat abscess - couldn't eat/drink for a couple of days so my wonderful old fashioned family GP came around and found it with a curved mirror (well ok, a spoon)!
I was in hospital within 2 hours. Very impressive. That was about 20 years ago and the last time I was impressed with the NHS.
@NorfolkTilIDie I don't think you have to date someone whose politics is the opposite to yours in order to be challenged or experience new things. From when I was doing my A-Levels, I actually have two friends who do vote Tory (the rest of my friends from uni and school are all disinterested in politics or lefties), and I've certainly been challenged by them in debates! But I don't think I'd really want to be in a relationship with someone whose views on feminism, for example, align with many right-wing POVs I've read.
Miss Plato, no diseases, but I did once solve a House case (whilst watching) before he did. I was absurdly proud of myself (the episode where an individual has two genetic codes. Did a little about that at university).
It all boils down to ..Do the British Taxpayers who completely fund the NHS need and deserve a weekend service..like a lot of other Health services around the world. Personally I think we do...
That's the spin but the dispute was about cutting payments to doctors who are already working weekends to provide that service.
Only 55,000 Dr are still in training ie on junior Dr contracts.
More than 95000 are Consultants Associate Specialtists,Staff Doctors,Specialty Doctors (not junior Drs)
I'm still not sure what your point is, Mr Owls, unless you are suggesting that Junior Doctor roles can only be done by Junior Doctors.
When some of the Junior Doctors went on strike they were at pains to point out that others could cover for them so patients would be safe.
Were Junior Doctors the only ones capable of doing the roles, which is not true, and were the loss of 1-2% of Junior Doctors to be significant, which it isn't, you would thereoletivally have a point.
But those claims are not true, so you don't have a point.
Of course you could have a Cobsultant only service but that will cost significantly more (almost double)
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
How did it feel ?
At the start of Jan I had flu, followed by laryngitis followed by tonsilitis and now I can't clear my throat of phlegm ><.
@JournoStephen: If you don't like what the govt is doing with #juniordoctors, here's a tip: Win an election. That's real politics, not Corbynista posturing.
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
How did it feel ?
At the start of Jan I had flu, followed by laryngitis followed by tonsilitis and now I can't clear my throat of phlegm ><.</p>
Like I had an open wound in my throat and couldn't do anything other than suck ice cubes.
norman smith @BBCNormanS 1h1 hour ago This is the biggest gamble with patient safety that has ever been seen says Labours Heidi Alexander #JuniorDoctorsStrike
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
Some sort of throat abscess - couldn't eat/drink for a couple of days so my wonderful old fashioned family GP came around and found it with a curved mirror (well ok, a spoon)!
I was in hospital within 2 hours. Very impressive. That was about 20 years ago and the last time I was impressed with the NHS.
Serves them right. I suspect this has more to do with the BMA's (non-)negotiating tactics than anything else.
Sorry but you have no clue what the result of this imposition will be but you are happy to gamble.
Hope YBS puts you on a 7 day contract "Serves you right"!!
I'm already required to work weekends as needed. That's when code implementations occur.
Was that imposed without you agreeing?
If not we are not comparing like with like are we?
Junior Drs already work weekends on a contract they agreed.
I believe imposition is a huge gamble that may cost the NHS in England dear.
As a consultant I regularly get my contract terms and conditions changed without my agreement. If I don't sign they get someone else.
Where you getting new Doctors from then?
Good luck
OMG not another BJO #CrisisInTheNHS rant.
How is this different to your regular Christmas/New Year shroud-waving festival. We always hear about how thousand more are going to die... and then don't, or thousands more are going to leave... and then don't. Your credibility on this subject is similar to Cameron's on EU negotiation.
Miss Plato, no diseases, but I did once solve a House case (whilst watching) before he did. I was absurdly proud of myself (the episode where an individual has two genetic codes. Did a little about that at university).
Even by "Never trust the Tories on the NHS standards"
Hunt has gambled big time.
What happens when 90% of Drs refuse them??
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
As someone else pointed out repeatedly yesterday, most of them are nice Middle Class people, who like stability, and will just get on with what they're doing now with a bit of grumbling. They're not going to uproot families, and give up on years of hard worked learning, and long term career goals.
Lets see.
And do what, look for work en masse in Scotland, Wales or as locums?
Possible that significant numbers will.
Crude population stats suggest that if the entire Junior Doctor workforce of Wales, Scotland and NI were to be made redundant, then perhaps 15% or so of Junior Doctors in England would be able to transfer.
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be likely.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
You think the NHS in Egland can afford to lose 1-2% of its Drs (550 -1100)
The number has increased by 32,000 in the last decade.
So we are talking about 2-4 months of growth at average trend.
So, yes - if necessary it can be afforded.
55,000 junior doctors out of 150,000 Drs.
95000 are not junior Doctors.
We could of course impose on Consultants et al a new contract
If the NHS was lots of smaller businesses then doctors + hospitals could vie for each other with different offers and contracts.
But because the NHS is a monolith, that is why 'imposing' a contract (once negotiation has failed) is the only option.
There's nothing sinister about it. What the consequences will be, we will no doubt find out.
It is, and they can.
Trusts can set their own pay and conditions but in practice this freedom is rarely used. I did recently see one Trust outside London started paying London salaries to attract staff, but that's a rare example
It all boils down to ..Do the British Taxpayers who completely fund the NHS need and deserve a weekend service..like a lot of other Health services around the world. Personally I think we do...
That's the spin but the dispute was about cutting payments to doctors who are already working weekends to provide that service.
They are striking to keep their needless overtime?
I'm going to watch House again in tribute to the Junior Doctors new contract.
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
Not heard of that for a while.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
How did it feel ?
At the start of Jan I had flu, followed by laryngitis followed by tonsilitis and now I can't clear my throat of phlegm ><.</p>
Like I had an open wound in my throat and couldn't do anything other than suck ice cubes.
The NHS saved your life.
Or from a life of Ice Cube sucking
And yet you are unimpressed FFS what are you expecting!!
@NorfolkTilIDie I don't think you have to date someone whose politics is the opposite to yours in order to be challenged or experience new things. From when I was doing my A-Levels, I actually have two friends who do vote Tory (the rest of my friends from uni and school are all disinterested in politics or lefties), and I've certainly been challenged by them in debates! But I don't think I'd really want to be in a relationship with someone whose views on feminism, for example, align with many right-wing POVs I've read.
Neither do I, but I do think excluding people from your potential dating pool before you get started is a good idea. You must always accept that you can be wrong about anything, so having litmas tests for dating partners could mean you miss out on a life partner on something you are wrong about.
It all boils down to ..Do the British Taxpayers who completely fund the NHS need and deserve a weekend service..like a lot of other Health services around the world. Personally I think we do...
That's the spin but the dispute was about cutting payments to doctors who are already working weekends to provide that service.
They are striking to keep their needless overtime?
Mr. Urquhart, I liked the Doctor Who comparison picture. I'd take a wax Tom Baker over Chris Evans
Mr. Taffys, I had two trouser-removing medical conditions (neither diseases). I can assure you from personal experience, wedding tackle is not the worst area to be examined.
[I hope your issue was resolved quickly and painlessly].
Miss Plato, can't recall, it was maybe a decade ago now. Essentially, one heterogeneous twin (at embryo stage) absorbs the other. So you get one human, with two genetic codes.
Comments
The thing is, having invested so much time and money in their training, how many are going to walk out now over weekend rotas, just at the point in their career when the decent pay is just around the corner?
This piece from the Daily Record suggests that the worst problem in Scotland is a shortfall of 20% in Junior Doctors in the GP Sector.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotlands-surgeries-face-recruitment-crisis-5978011#PsIlv0Li7Z6bbp5F.97
If we take that as an average then the number of England NHS Docs who will be able to bail out by that route will be about 3%. More realistically 1-2% would be a likely maximum.
So I call it as one of those tape recordings of a Rotweiller which turns out to be a Yorkshire Terrier puppy.
Frankly 1% or 5% would be a price well worth paying if it puts the BMA back in its kennel.
Hope YBS puts you on a 7 day contract "Serves you right"!!
Given the recruitment issues A&E seems to have I suspect this has been tolerated for a long time as a back door way of paying those in that speciality more. I am not sure I understand the reasoning of removing that incentive and think it may have to be addressed in other ways. I suspect that the number of doctors who can find a better employer than the NHS will be vanishingly small but there is a risk that they will be concentrated in the most high profile of specialities.
Edit. Sorry didn't answer your question. Under 0.5%.
It cant
http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs
The number has increased by 32,000 in the last decade.
So we are talking about 2-4 months of growth at average trend.
So, yes - if necessary it can be afforded.
BJ Howls is too busy salivating at the prospect of doctor walkouts.
If not we are not comparing like with like are we?
Junior Drs already work weekends on a contract they agreed.
I believe imposition is a huge gamble that may cost the NHS in England dear.
FMQ Review: Roughest ride @NicolaSturgeon has had since becoming FM. @kdugdalemsp back on form, using SNP's own cuts against it. 1/5
@RuthDavidsonMSP opened up a new front by painting the Scottish Government as out of touch with rural Scotland. 2/5
While @kdugdalemsp was already getting the better of @NicolaSturgeon, MSP who shouted "liar" gave her an unfair advantage. 3/5
The "liar" accusation really seemed to throw @NicolaSturgeon off her game. Poor form from parliamentarian responsible. 4/5
Scottish Labour has found its pluck again and sounds like it's up for a fight. Can't see it making much of a difference. 5/5
“There’s also a thing that wheelchair athletes call ‘boosting’, where they put nails in the seat, which they can’t feel because they’re paralysed, but [their] body still reacts and pumps more adrenalin.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/02/10/adam-hills-interview-disabled-athletes-are-cheating-too/
95000 are not junior Doctors.
We could of course impose on Consultants et al a new contract
Perhaps you dont care.
Anyone who thinks junior Drs being on strike is good is an idiot.
But then the Public know who is to blame dont they?
If the NHS was lots of smaller businesses then doctors + hospitals could vie for each other with different offers and contracts.
But because the NHS is a monolith, that is why 'imposing' a contract (once negotiation has failed) is the only option.
There's nothing sinister about it. What the consequences will be, we will no doubt find out.
I see a reference to an "STV poll" showing a 60% support for independence if BREXIT - have the details been released?
Also almost half of JDs are not in the BMA.
Things you learn on PB!
Meanwhile Gilt yields hit record low as Brexit fears spook absolutely no investors at all. In fact quite the opposite.
A new data point that may or may not help the undecided: upgrading caused me some problems with my laptop power (the computer would "sleep" after a lack of activity or when the case was shut, but could not be woken up except by restarting it) which I since sorted by downgrading one of my drivers.
The switch has, however, caused problems with my audio that I hoped might be one-offs but unfortunately have proven persistent - Skype calls often crash mid-call due to either "problem with playback device" or "problem with recording device". As someone who uses Skype often for work, this is a serious problem and makes me regret updating my operating system. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a new driver for my headset. And I'm a bit loathe to purchase a new one since my current hardware works perfectly well on my old spare laptop, and the problem seems to be a "soft" one (a new headset may have exactly the same problems).
Just putting this out there in case there is anyone looking to switch for whom this might be a useful anecdote/datapoint.
http://tinyurl.com/gkrd6bo
Hopefully a number of junior doctors will be savvy enough to recognise who has led them to the position they now find themselves in, where there could have been a deal done this week, probably on better terms than what will now be imposed?
Either way, I suspect there will still be "a deal" on this over the coming weeks...
Only 55,000 Dr are still in training ie on junior Dr contracts.
More than 95000 are Consultants Associate Specialtists,Staff Doctors,Specialty Doctors (not junior Drs)
As I understand it Mr Owls, not even Corbynite labour supports junior doctors actually striking.
Goodness knows where that puts you on the political spectrum!!
(some clarification needed - ed?)
Jeremy Hunt - 90%
Junior doctors - 7%
Both - 3%
They all say they like Cruz because that's what their church and Glenn Beck say.
They all don't like Trump, although they like that he's an outsider.
They all say that they will vote for Cruz.
They all expect Trump to win S.Carolina.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-02-11/cruz-interesting-trump-inevitable-in-s-c-focus-group
Sounds like a focus group of Ted Cruz voters rather than a representative sample.
If Sarah Wollaston agrees with imposition, that's a full house, isn't it?
You are happy to gamble.
Thats fine.
I'd love to see that poll!
And tempted to ask what unusual diseases Pb-ers have had. Sadly, I can only claim Scarlet Fever. Does anybody still get this?
http://www.qualitywatch.org.uk/indicator/staff-turnover-nhs
In March 2013 2.25% of Drs left the NHS in one month, and only 1.25% joined.
I don't recall the world or the NHS coming to an end.
But I stand to be corrected if Mr Owls could point me to a report in the reputable press.
I once had.a quinsey - which I take is quite uncommon given about half of my hospital's doctors asked if they could take a look down my throat because they'd never seen one...
Just noted on the web the other day it apparently has a 30% mortality rate !!! Had no idea at the time !
The NHS has not got any worse. To be fair, it hasn't got any better, either, but it's systems and processes and size means it is unlikely to ever reach the outcomes of more successful healthcare systems.
As for me I have always made it clear I am an NHS supporter first second and last.
Lab supporter sometimes.
You are in denial
But when some of the Junior Doctors went on strike they were at pains to point out that others could cover for them so patients would be safe.
Were Junior Doctors the only ones capable of doing the roles, which they aren't, and were the loss of 1-2% of Junior Doctors to be significant in the whole scheme of things, which it isn't, you would theoretically have a point.
But you don't.
I was in hospital within 2 hours. Very impressive. That was about 20 years ago and the last time I was impressed with the NHS.
When some of the Junior Doctors went on strike they were at pains to point out that others could cover for them so patients would be safe.
Were Junior Doctors the only ones capable of doing the roles, which is not true, and were the loss of 1-2% of Junior Doctors to be significant, which it isn't, you would thereoletivally have a point.
But those claims are not true, so you don't have a point.
Of course you could have a Cobsultant only service but that will cost significantly more (almost double)
At the start of Jan I had flu, followed by laryngitis followed by tonsilitis and now I can't clear my throat of phlegm ><.
Good luck
norman smith @BBCNormanS 1h1 hour ago
This is the biggest gamble with patient safety that has ever been seen says Labours Heidi Alexander #JuniorDoctorsStrike
I understand the BMJ poll is even more one sided!!!
I got laryngitis as a kid and now go all dog hearing squeaky if I get a sore throat. It's most amusing and lasts for days.
And what proportion of mirror readers who poll against the government even if it was to their direct benefit?
How is this different to your regular Christmas/New Year shroud-waving festival. We always hear about how thousand more are going to die... and then don't, or thousands more are going to leave... and then don't. Your credibility on this subject is similar to Cameron's on EU negotiation.
Which one was that?
Trusts can set their own pay and conditions but in practice this freedom is rarely used. I did recently see one Trust outside London started paying London salaries to attract staff, but that's a rare example
Or from a life of Ice Cube sucking
And yet you are unimpressed FFS what are you expecting!!
Its a measure of how perceptions are changing that the PC line up would probably not even have been commented on a few years ago.
Mr. Taffys, I had two trouser-removing medical conditions (neither diseases). I can assure you from personal experience, wedding tackle is not the worst area to be examined.
[I hope your issue was resolved quickly and painlessly].
Miss Plato, can't recall, it was maybe a decade ago now. Essentially, one heterogeneous twin (at embryo stage) absorbs the other. So you get one human, with two genetic codes.
The BMJ is the magazine. The BMA is the Union.