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    You can see why the Tories have linked Corbyn to Sadiq Khan's campaign

    Mr Corbyn is backed by 66 to 17 for his proposal to block company dividends to firms that fail to pay staff the Living Wage. However, support dropped to 60-24 among a sample told it was Mr Corbyn’s idea, implying his name produces a slightly negative reaction.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
    That's another matter. One should be true to one's beer-drinking self.
    Well, it's an issue for as long as the Government thinks twitterstorms and Facebook reshares are representative of public opinion.
    Do you think the Government does think that? (Or am I reading too much into your comment?)
    Not on migration. But I do think that members within the Government can be misled by petitions like the one asking for the banning of Donald Trump, or on Transphobia, animal rights, or misuse of incorrect thinkspeak by a celebrity, to think that there is a large segment of the public who care a lot whilst the rest are either apathetic or neutral, so they best do something about it.

    In reality, the far greater numbers that disagree dare not put their head above the paraphet, lest it's shot off.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Top trolling on Corbyn

    Greg Hands
    Why is it only you in hi-vis jacket & helmet? Do they think you're accident prone? https://t.co/5hgRU4Vgyd

    Corbin doesn't really need a hi-viz jacket - his policies ensure that the voters will get out of his way...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This really requires the intervention of the League Against Cruel Sports.

    Shooting Corbyn is akin to hitting tinned sardines.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited January 2016

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
    Where did you get that?

    Edit: Blind as a fucking bat today
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    edited January 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/trump-strong-three-early-states-clinton-sanders-battle-poll-n505516

    Sample sizes for Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are enourmous by US standards.



    Yes and no. The actual samples of likely caucus-goers/voters are a few hundred per state. But it's useful that they've specifically asked if people are likely to vote, and only counted those.

    The South Carolina subsamples (I know, I know) are interesting - Clinton doing vastly better among black voters (while only modestly ahead among whites). People used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?
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    Ipsos Mori (changes since Dec)

    Con 40 (+2) Lab 31 (nc) UKIP 11 (+2) LD 7 (-2)
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Britain Elects
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+2)
    LAB: 31% (-)
    UKIP: 11% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-2)
    GRN: 4% (-2)
    (via Ipsos-Mori / 23 - 25 Jan)
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Corbyn toxic - I could have told you that

    Blow #3 for Corbyn - public backs dividends idea, but support drops when his name is added. Toxic? see @ipsosMORI

    Wasn't it the case in the Howard era (maybe it still is?) that support for an idea would drop when people were told it was a Tory policy?
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    Wanderer said:

    Corbyn toxic - I could have told you that

    Blow #3 for Corbyn - public backs dividends idea, but support drops when his name is added. Toxic? see @ipsosMORI

    Wasn't it the case in the Howard era (maybe it still is?) that support for an idea would drop when people were told it was a Tory policy?
    It was the case. Lord Ashcroft did some polling in 2005 called wake up and smell the coffee.

    Since Cam became Tory leader, it isn't an issue much now
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited January 2016
    Because voters know a suggestion from Corbyn is economically illiterate.

    If suggested by Tory, it's probably sound money advice.

    You can see why the Tories have linked Corbyn to Sadiq Khan's campaign

    Mr Corbyn is backed by 66 to 17 for his proposal to block company dividends to firms that fail to pay staff the Living Wage. However, support dropped to 60-24 among a sample told it was Mr Corbyn’s idea, implying his name produces a slightly negative reaction.

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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672

    Lots of (commendable, gullible, fill in as you please) bleeding heart types who offered housing for migrants were told it would be unsuitable. Few people have an entire house going spare and it simply isn't policy right now to put people up in a spare room. So not sure the accusations of hypocrisy are accurate, though I have no doubt some of the more public "I'd take a migrant in" pronouncements were purely posturing by folk who knew it would never come to that.

    There's inverse hypocrisy too - people who say "Oi, prominent leftie X hasn't taken in a migrant, so nobody needs to do anything".

    In general, most people feel uncomfortable in making a public issue of helping someone anyway. Years ago as an MP I offered to put up a woman and two kids while they sorted themselves out after they'd suffered domestic violence. It wouldn't have occurred to me at the time to talk about it to anyone else, but I think most of us would rally round for a bit in a crunch if we could.
    This is such bullshit.

    If you're going to volunteer other people's private homes to take in an undefined number of migrants you should have the bollocks to show some leadership by making the first sacrifice and take them in yourself.

    Or you should shut up.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
    And the public love the nukes.
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    Gideon Skinner, of Ipsos MORI, said: “Labour starts 2016 with big challenges, being the furthest behind the Conservatives on perceptions of unity and leadership team since we started asking the question.”

    Project Corbyn going well then.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Britain Elects
    Westminster voting intention:

    (via Ipsos-Mori / 23 - 25 Jan)

    Britain Elects
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 40% (+2)
    █████████████████████████
    LAB: 31% (-)
    ███████████████████▌
    UKIP: 11% (+2)
    ███████
    LDEM: 7% (-2)
    ████▌
    GRN: 4% (-2)
    ██▌

    https://www.nojam.com/post/510
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Virtue signalling has consequences.

    Lots of (commendable, gullible, fill in as you please) bleeding heart types who offered housing for migrants were told it would be unsuitable. Few people have an entire house going spare and it simply isn't policy right now to put people up in a spare room. So not sure the accusations of hypocrisy are accurate, though I have no doubt some of the more public "I'd take a migrant in" pronouncements were purely posturing by folk who knew it would never come to that.

    There's inverse hypocrisy too - people who say "Oi, prominent leftie X hasn't taken in a migrant, so nobody needs to do anything".

    In general, most people feel uncomfortable in making a public issue of helping someone anyway. Years ago as an MP I offered to put up a woman and two kids while they sorted themselves out after they'd suffered domestic violence. It wouldn't have occurred to me at the time to talk about it to anyone else, but I think most of us would rally round for a bit in a crunch if we could.
    This is such bullshit.

    If you're going to volunteer other people's private homes to take in an undefined number of migrants you should have the bollocks to show some leadership by making the first sacrifice and take them in yourself.

    Or you should shut up.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Miss Plato, Mr. Wanderer, I'm sure the dog will calm down over time. The second beast was a frantic lunatic (rescue dog we got at six months old. She barked at almost everything), and she started calming down [sadly, she went missing a few years after we got her].
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I know they re-weight things but 40% of the Ipsos sample of workers say they are public sector. True figure closer to 17%.

    Ipsos get a 'Labour/left friendly' sample, and these results.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Gideon Skinner? The chupacbra of political polling?

    Gideon Skinner, of Ipsos MORI, said: “Labour starts 2016 with big challenges, being the furthest behind the Conservatives on perceptions of unity and leadership team since we started asking the question.”

    Project Corbyn going well then.

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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited January 2016
    Did people here really miss Peak Guardian?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans-stomach-unpalatable-truth-quinoa

    "Ethical consumers should be aware poor Bolivians can no longer afford their staple grain, due to western demand raising prices"
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited January 2016

    Gideon Skinner, of Ipsos MORI, said: “Labour starts 2016 with big challenges, being the furthest behind the Conservatives on perceptions of unity and leadership team since we started asking the question.”

    Project Corbyn going well then.

    A party split does not come close to describing the present Labour party, they are at war.
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    David Cameron remains the party leader with the highest satisfaction rating, with 42% satisfied with his performance and just over half (52%) dissatisfied (giving a -9 net satisfaction score). Three in ten (31%) are satisfied with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and 49% are dissatisfied (-18 net satisfaction).

    UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s ratings are identical to Mr Corbyn’s (31% satisfied and 49% dissatisfied) and while 22% are satisfied with Tim Farron (32% dissatisfied) 46% say they ‘don’t know’, showing the Liberal Democrat leader has yet to make a breakthrough into the public’s awareness.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited January 2016
    Corbyn is exacerbating Labour's 'Man' problem.

    Ipsos reckoned Ed lost 38-30. Jezza has turned that into 42-29.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Ipsos get a 'Labour/left friendly' sample, and these results. ''

    More masterful analysis of polling. You just spoil us Mr Chestnut.

    Respek....
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207
    I see the sale of Lloyds shares has been postponed. I'd suggest their share price closely matches the perception of George Osborne!

    http://tinyurl.com/gwx47m4
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.


    You are being derogatory to grapes (some of which might be black).

    I demand you are banned from this site.
    I disagree

    As per the debate with @The_Apocalypse yesterday, I think it shows a healthy level of integration not to differentiate between black and white (well green, but they count) grapes
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Miss Plato, Mr. Wanderer, I'm sure the dog will calm down over time. The second beast was a frantic lunatic (rescue dog we got at six months old. She barked at almost everything), and she started calming down [sadly, she went missing a few years after we got her].

    Our current dog was rehomed by us when she was 11 months old. For a long time she was extremely anxious and nervy. It wasn't until she was 6 or 7 that she really seemed to accept that she was safe now. Absolutely lovely dog. I can't get my head round the fact that her original owners didn’t want her.
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    Leader ratings changes since Dec

    Cam plus 5%
    Jez minus 1%
    Farage minus 3%
    Farron minus 3%
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Do look at https://www.cesarsway.com/

    I used to specialise in nervous dogs and difficult animals. He's so spot on. The longer you leave her anxious, it's stressful for everyone.

    She needs to stop worrying for no obvious reason.

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Miss Plato, Mr. Wanderer, I'm sure the dog will calm down over time. The second beast was a frantic lunatic (rescue dog we got at six months old. She barked at almost everything), and she started calming down [sadly, she went missing a few years after we got her].

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2016
    TOPPING said:

    Wanderer said:

    TOPPING said:



    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.

    I think he was applying himself and knew what he was doing and will be happy with the results.
    Perhaps.

    I would be vaguely disappointed if it was felt necessary to engage in dog-whistling if that is what it was.

    Efficient, good politics, but I would be vaguely disappointed.

    But then I am on the left of the far right of the Party.
    I don't think it is dog whistling (in the sense of attracting racist voters).

    I think he was planning to get Labour in a tizzy about something that makes them look faintly ridiculous
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    @Charles - I hope to come to the Egyptian exhibition in the next week or two. Will you be there yourself?
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    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited January 2016
    Charles said:

    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.


    You are being derogatory to grapes (some of which might be black).

    I demand you are banned from this site.
    I disagree

    As per the debate with @The_Apocalypse yesterday, I think it shows a healthy level of integration not to differentiate between black and white (well green, but they count) grapes
    Green!
    Alien grapes.
    Don't call them a bunch.
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    Ed Miliband's net ratings with Ipsos Mori in January 2011, net zero

    Corbyn's net ratings in January 2016, minus 18
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    @Charles - I hope to come to the Egyptian exhibition in the next week or two. Will you be there yourself?

    You might meet his mummy.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088
    watford30 said:

    john_zims said:

    @Moses_

    'Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy? '


    Has she told us yet when her 'spare house' was given to asylum seekers ?

    She wouldn't have been making empty gestures during her recent bid for the Labour leadership ?

    Surprised that Twitter hasn't been swamped by people demanding an answer.

    Look who else offered to take a refugee.

    'Sturgeon told the Murnaghan programme on Sky News that she would be “absolutely happy” to take a refugee from Syria.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-and-yvette-cooper-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees

    Perhaps one of the Nat Bunch can fill us in as to whether she held good on her offer.
    Talking mince as ever, have you seen a programme by the Tories whereby they plan to put immigrants/refugees in private houses, has there been an announcement , call for names etc.
    You stick to giving your pals at Google billions and lining up the jobs for yourselves. Real politicians unlike the NASTY party are trying to help th country not themselves.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Did people here really miss Peak Guardian?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans-stomach-unpalatable-truth-quinoa

    "Ethical consumers should be aware poor Bolivians can no longer afford their staple grain, due to western demand raising prices"

    https://twitter.com/somuchguardian
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    It's the sort of thing my Californian hippy-raised wife makes me eat :)
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Many owners simply don't know what to do, make the issue worse by accident or by getting frustrated and scaring doggy even more.

    The natural personality of the owner can be a biggy. If you're quite highly strung, they copy you unless you're in charge.
    Wanderer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Miss Plato, Mr. Wanderer, I'm sure the dog will calm down over time. The second beast was a frantic lunatic (rescue dog we got at six months old. She barked at almost everything), and she started calming down [sadly, she went missing a few years after we got her].

    Our current dog was rehomed by us when she was 11 months old. For a long time she was extremely anxious and nervy. It wasn't until she was 6 or 7 that she really seemed to accept that she was safe now. Absolutely lovely dog. I can't get my head round the fact that her original owners didn’t want her.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,088

    Wanderer said:

    Corbyn toxic - I could have told you that

    Blow #3 for Corbyn - public backs dividends idea, but support drops when his name is added. Toxic? see @ipsosMORI

    Wasn't it the case in the Howard era (maybe it still is?) that support for an idea would drop when people were told it was a Tory policy?
    It was the case. Lord Ashcroft did some polling in 2005 called wake up and smell the coffee.

    Since Cam became Tory leader, it isn't an issue much now
    Except in Scotland
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Wanderer, second dog had been bought by an idiot son for his wheelchair-bound mother as a companion. Might make sense with some dogs, but not a border collie. Given her hysterical reaction to light (ie reflections on the wall and so on) I'd guess she was kept in something like a cupboard under the stairs, or the mother tried to use reflected light for playing.

    When we first got her, she didn't even know how to play properly. We rolled a ball for her, and she just watched it in confusion (didn't take long for her to get it, though).

    Miss Plato, I might not be explaining the situation quite accurately. The dog does bark at the postman etc, but she's easily distracted and it doesn't last long. It's just that I work (and, er, post on pb.com) on the computer upstairs, and she's downstairs. She also really likes company (very friendly with strangers visiting and even the day we got her she was confident seeing the vet). She's also used to people being around constantly.

    She's only 8-9 months, but it might be that she's at the stage for the cage to go (earlier than I would've expected, though). It's a bit annoying right now, but it's not (having had the aforementioned second hysterical hound) something that I think it a serious issue.

    Nevertheless, I'll give the site a quick look and see what I think.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Wanderer said:

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
    Different angles - the original comment was from someone sympathising with the pressures on him and comparing them to what black people had to put up with, but later it was widely seen as reflecting his policies and empathy:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/08/toni-morrison-wasnt-giving-bill-clinton-a-compliment/402517/
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/clinton-honored-first-black-president-black-caucus-dinner
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/03/bill_clinton_i_loved_being_called_the_first_black_president.html
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see that Jeremy Corbyn has now plumbed Nigel Farage's depths of unpopularity.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    David Cameron remains the party leader with the highest satisfaction rating, with 42% satisfied with his performance and just over half (52%) dissatisfied (giving a -9 net satisfaction score). Three in ten (31%) are satisfied with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and 49% are dissatisfied (-18 net satisfaction).

    UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s ratings are identical to Mr Corbyn’s (31% satisfied and 49% dissatisfied) and while 22% are satisfied with Tim Farron (32% dissatisfied) 46% say they ‘don’t know’, showing the Liberal Democrat leader has yet to make a breakthrough into the public’s awareness.

    I'd be among the 46%. The Lib Dems have become invisible.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    edited January 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/trump-strong-three-early-states-clinton-sanders-battle-poll-n505516

    Sample sizes for Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are enourmous by US standards.

    Those polls give Trump a clear lead in Iowa and a comfortable lead in New Hampshire and South Carolina, Cruz is second in all 3. Barring a shock new development Trump looks on course for the GOP nomination.

    On the Democratic side Clinton and Sanders are neck and neck in Iowa, Sanders has a comfortable lead in New Hampshire and Clinton a comfortable lead in South Carolina. It looks like the Democratic race by contrast is too close to call
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @Charles - I hope to come to the Egyptian exhibition in the next week or two. Will you be there yourself?

    I'm in London - if you PM with a time am sure I can arrange it (my work-work office is 15 minutes from my play-work office)
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    I see that Jeremy Corbyn has now plumbed Nigel Farage's depths of unpopularity.

    Indeed, Leave need to lock Farage in a closest until after the referendum
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    David Cameron remains the party leader with the highest satisfaction rating, with 42% satisfied with his performance and just over half (52%) dissatisfied (giving a -9 net satisfaction score). Three in ten (31%) are satisfied with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and 49% are dissatisfied (-18 net satisfaction).

    UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s ratings are identical to Mr Corbyn’s (31% satisfied and 49% dissatisfied) and while 22% are satisfied with Tim Farron (32% dissatisfied) 46% say they ‘don’t know’, showing the Liberal Democrat leader has yet to make a breakthrough into the public’s awareness.

    I'd be among the 46%. The Lib Dems have become invisible.
    who?
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    john_zims said:

    @Moses_

    'Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy? '


    Has she told us yet when her 'spare house' was given to asylum seekers ?

    She wouldn't have been making empty gestures during her recent bid for the Labour leadership ?

    Surprised that Twitter hasn't been swamped by people demanding an answer.

    Look who else offered to take a refugee.

    'Sturgeon told the Murnaghan programme on Sky News that she would be “absolutely happy” to take a refugee from Syria.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-and-yvette-cooper-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees

    Perhaps one of the Nat Bunch can fill us in as to whether she held good on her offer.
    Talking mince as ever, have you seen a programme by the Tories whereby they plan to put immigrants/refugees in private houses, has there been an announcement , call for names etc.
    You stick to giving your pals at Google billions and lining up the jobs for yourselves. Real politicians unlike the NASTY party are trying to help th country not themselves.
    And up rolls the Saltire Bus, anger and bile belching forth from it's backfiring exhaust, as Malky toots away on his little horn.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
    And the public love the nukes.
    Nope - another poll showing opinion almost evenly divided (52-44, last time was 52-48), with more people seduced by the "subs not carrying nukes" idea (more clearly expressed this time) than pure disarmament.

    But it's fair comment that Labour's not exactly united at the moment.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207

    I see that Jeremy Corbyn has now plumbed Nigel Farage's depths of unpopularity.

    Do you think there are Tories who are satisfied with Farage in the same way that they are satisfied with Corbyn?
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    LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    Wanderer said:

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
    Its all relative. HRC lost the minority vote big time against Obama, Sanders is a whole different matter.

    https://youtu.be/2nwRiuh1Cug

    Sanders is an old style Leftist from one of the whitest states and is simply unaware that the modern Democratic party is now the coalition of the fringes. His Congressional career has focused on economic and foreign policy issues rather than race.

    While most polls show him close or leading in Iowa and with a comfortable lead in New Hampshire, these are amongst the whitest states in the Union. In contrast, in South Carolina over half of the Democratic primary voters are black. And there Clinton enjoys a 71% margin among black voters and 34% lead over Sanders.

    Nationwide polls show Sanders and Clinton neck and neck among whites, but Clinton has a consistent 40-50 point lead among non-white voters. Non-whites dominate the Democratic primaries in states that have high non-white populations and GOP dominance amongst white voters. These states include the Deep South, Texas, and Arizona. And the four states with the most delegates, including Texas, Florida, New York, and California have a high enough non-white population that it’s impossible for Sanders to win with his pitiful non-white share.

    Clinton, however, is the default Democratic candidate, and unless there is a Jesse Jackson or Obama to vote for, blacks and most other non-whites will vote for the default candidate due to their lack of civic/political engagement. If Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire, he could very well be seen as a serious candidate and some non-whites will follow him, but it would not be because they are attracted to his message or movement.

    Unfortunately, neither he nor his supporters recognize that Vermont-style politics is only compatible with the demographics of Vermont.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Wanderer said:

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
    Different angles - the original comment was from someone sympathising with the pressures on him and comparing them to what black people had to put up with, but later it was widely seen as reflecting his policies and empathy:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/08/toni-morrison-wasnt-giving-bill-clinton-a-compliment/402517/
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/clinton-honored-first-black-president-black-caucus-dinner
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/04/03/bill_clinton_i_loved_being_called_the_first_black_president.html
    I know a few black Americans who think Bill was a better "black" POTUS than Obama. They feel the country hasn't been more divided than it is today along racial lines since the civil rights act and Obama has encouraged it rather than bringing people together like Bill (and Bush to some degree).
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited January 2016

    I see that Jeremy Corbyn has now plumbed Nigel Farage's depths of unpopularity.

    That kind of language is asking for a bunch of fives...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'd a very bouncy greyhound who danced about and demanded attention. And barked when ignored. He was a spoilt child. But gorgeous.

    I had to teach him manners by ignoring his poor behaviour and only praise what was acceptable. It took months as he'd the IQ of a bog brush. A collie is savvy but smart.

    Mr. Wanderer, second dog had been bought by an idiot son for his wheelchair-bound mother as a companion. Might make sense with some dogs, but not a border collie. Given her hysterical reaction to light (ie reflections on the wall and so on) I'd guess she was kept in something like a cupboard under the stairs, or the mother tried to use reflected light for playing.

    When we first got her, she didn't even know how to play properly. We rolled a ball for her, and she just watched it in confusion (didn't take long for her to get it, though).

    Miss Plato, I might not be explaining the situation quite accurately. The dog does bark at the postman etc, but she's easily distracted and it doesn't last long. It's just that I work (and, er, post on pb.com) on the computer upstairs, and she's downstairs. She also really likes company (very friendly with strangers visiting and even the day we got her she was confident seeing the vet). She's also used to people being around constantly.

    She's only 8-9 months, but it might be that she's at the stage for the cage to go (earlier than I would've expected, though). It's a bit annoying right now, but it's not (having had the aforementioned second hysterical hound) something that I think it a serious issue.

    Nevertheless, I'll give the site a quick look and see what I think.

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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,978
    I'm sure the only thing keeping Labour at 31% is their brand - which is systematically being trashed by Corbyn anyway.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I gather the polite term is Low Information voters

    I'm sure the only thing keeping Labour at 31% is their brand - which is systematically being trashed by Corbyn anyway.

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    Gideon Skinner? The chupacbra of political polling?

    Gideon Skinner, of Ipsos MORI, said: “Labour starts 2016 with big challenges, being the furthest behind the Conservatives on perceptions of unity and leadership team since we started asking the question.”

    Project Corbyn going well then.

    Just a mere Cryptid.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    WTF?

    Oliver Cooper
    % of each party's voters that think their party has the best team to lead the country:
    Conservatives 87%
    Labour 46%
    UKIP 23%
    Lib Dems 8%
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    I'm sure the only thing keeping Labour at 31% is their brand - which is systematically being trashed by Corbyn anyway.

    Just the usual problem of too many Labour voters being sampled?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oliver Cooper
    Ipsos MORI poll is another reminder that, while Corbyn is popular among Labour's 400,000 members, he's not liked by their 9 million voters.
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    Charles said:

    @Charles - I hope to come to the Egyptian exhibition in the next week or two. Will you be there yourself?

    I'm in London - if you PM with a time am sure I can arrange it (my work-work office is 15 minutes from my play-work office)
    Thanks - I'll do that when I've sorted out diaries.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting the zealotry of Corbynistas may not necessarily win them friends, or influence people?
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,978

    I'm sure the only thing keeping Labour at 31% is their brand - which is systematically being trashed by Corbyn anyway.

    Just the usual problem of too many Labour voters being sampled?
    And that as well! :)
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    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting the zealotry of Corbynistas may not necessarily win them friends, or influence people?

    Indeed, to be honest, I'm more upset at his use of 'your' instead of 'you're' than calling me a wanker.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    How much would the loss for the Gov't be crystallised at if Llloyds were to be sold now ?

    It's a real shame they aren't being sold, with the 5% to market discount and 10% additional allocation it would have respresented great value.

    One problem the Gov't has creted is that if you own any Lloyds shares then you aren't eligible for the offer. So the sale delay will probably mean less small buyers in the market (Why buy at market when you can get market - 5% + 1/10th more after a year ?), which will probably adversely affect the share price.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ouch

    Ben Ipsos MORI
    Current ratings of Labour versus Conservative leadership teams https://t.co/nseBRBbm81
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207
    I hope that's not just you talking to yourself!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,430

    WTF?

    Oliver Cooper
    % of each party's voters that think their party has the best team to lead the country:
    Conservatives 87%
    Labour 46%
    UKIP 23%
    Lib Dems 8%

    Blimey, Liberal voters really hate their leadership. But what can they do, there's only 7 other potential candidates!
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207

    WTF?

    Oliver Cooper
    % of each party's voters that think their party has the best team to lead the country:
    Conservatives 87%
    Labour 46%
    UKIP 23%
    Lib Dems 8%

    If I'm being honest I don't think I could say Ukip had the best team to run the country and keep a straight face. That's not to say that they don't have some good people.

    The Lib Dem score is just plain funny!
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,430

    Ouch

    Ben Ipsos MORI
    Current ratings of Labour versus Conservative leadership teams https://t.co/nseBRBbm81

    My popcorn floweth over. And Corbyn has barely started on his mission.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Today has given me more lololol in ages.
    tlg86 said:

    WTF?

    Oliver Cooper
    % of each party's voters that think their party has the best team to lead the country:
    Conservatives 87%
    Labour 46%
    UKIP 23%
    Lib Dems 8%

    If I'm being honest I don't think I could say Ukip had the best team to run the country and keep a straight face. That's not to say that they don't have some good people.

    The Lib Dem score is just plain funny!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    I was going to pull Mr Wooll up on his spelling but I see @TSE has done it already.
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    Comedy sub sample alert

    Ipsos Mori Scotland


    SNP 44%
    Con 34%
    Lab 16%
    UKIP 4%
    Greens 1%
    Lib Dems 0 (yes zero)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672

    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting the zealotry of Corbynistas may not necessarily win them friends, or influence people?

    Indeed, to be honest, I'm more upset at his use of 'your' instead of 'you're' than calling me a wanker.
    "It's 'you're'.."

    You should reply with exactly that.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Britain Elects
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+2)
    LAB: 31% (-)
    UKIP: 11% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-2)
    GRN: 4% (-2)
    (via Ipsos-Mori / 23 - 25 Jan)

    "Awwwlllriiiiiiiggght !!" and "Jez we Khan !!"


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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    LondonBob said:

    Wanderer said:

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
    Its all relative. HRC lost the minority vote big time against Obama, Sanders is a whole different matter.

    https://youtu.be/2nwRiuh1Cug

    Sanders is an old style Leftist from one of the whitest states and is simply unaware that the modern Democratic party is now the coalition of the fringes. His Congressional career has focused on economic and foreign policy issues rather than race.

    While most polls show him close or leading in Iowa and with a comfortable lead in New Hampshire, these are amongst the whitest states in the Union. In contrast, in South Carolina over half of the Democratic primary voters are black. And there Clinton enjoys a 71% margin among black voters and 34% lead over Sanders.

    Nationwide polls show Sanders and Clinton neck and neck among whites, but Clinton has a consistent 40-50 point lead among non-white voters. Non-whites dominate the Democratic primaries in states that have high non-white populations and GOP dominance amongst white voters. These states include the Deep South, Texas, and Arizona. And the four states with the most delegates, including Texas, Florida, New York, and California have a high enough non-white population that it’s impossible for Sanders to win with his pitiful non-white share.

    Clinton, however, is the default Democratic candidate, and unless there is a Jesse Jackson or Obama to vote for, blacks and most other non-whites will vote for the default candidate due to their lack of civic/political engagement. If Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire, he could very well be seen as a serious candidate and some non-whites will follow him, but it would not be because they are attracted to his message or movement.

    Unfortunately, neither he nor his supporters recognize that Vermont-style politics is only compatible with the demographics of Vermont.
    I still can't quite get Homer Simpson's neighbour out of my mind!
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    tlg86 said:

    I hope that's not just you talking to yourself!
    When I swear, I either swear in French or Latin.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    How bad for Corbyn does it have to get? It's only the headline being above 30 giving him any hope.
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    How bad for Corbyn does it have to get? It's only the headline being above 30 giving him any hope.

    Sadiq Khan losing in London.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Blimey, Liberal voters really hate their leadership. But what can they do, there's only 7 other potential candidates! ''

    The low UKIP score is also instructive. With the tide of history flowing in their direction, UKIP really should be doing way better.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,207
    Pulpstar said:

    How much would the loss for the Gov't be crystallised at if Llloyds were to be sold now ?

    It's a real shame they aren't being sold, with the 5% to market discount and 10% additional allocation it would have respresented great value.

    One problem the Gov't has creted is that if you own any Lloyds shares then you aren't eligible for the offer. So the sale delay will probably mean less small buyers in the market (Why buy at market when you can get market - 5% + 1/10th more after a year ?), which will probably adversely affect the share price.

    My mum has had about 500 shares since before the crash. I insisted that she voted against the merger with HBoS as I knew it was a complete stitch up. Alas enough of the other shareholders bought the utter drivel spouted by the firm clearly acting on before of Gordon Brown.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,602
    edited January 2016
    Sky - EU to offer the UK an emergency brake mechanism to curb EU migration into the UK
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Taffys, UKIP's leadership is more cult than team, though.
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    LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    Worth contrasting Sanders' ad with Hollande's.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB1YED4mWhw

    Sixties was along time ago Bernie.
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    Dixie said:

    LondonBob said:

    Wanderer said:

    used to call Bill the "first black President" because of his rapport with black voters, and maybe that's rubbed off on Hillary?

    Do you know any more about that phenomenon? I find it fascinating as it must go beyond any single policy or speech.
    Its all relative. HRC lost the minority vote big time against Obama, Sanders is a whole different matter.

    https://youtu.be/2nwRiuh1Cug

    Sanders is an old style Leftist from one of the whitest states and is simply unaware that the modern Democratic party is now the coalition of the fringes. His Congressional career has focused on economic and foreign policy issues rather than race.

    While most polls show him close or leading in Iowa and with a comfortable lead in New Hampshire, these are amongst the whitest states in the Union. In contrast, in South Carolina over half of the Democratic primary voters are black. And there Clinton enjoys a 71% margin among black voters and 34% lead over Sanders.

    Nationwide polls show Sanders and Clinton neck and neck among whites, but Clinton has a consistent 40-50 point lead among non-white voters. Non-whites dominate the Democratic primaries in states that have high non-white populations and GOP dominance amongst white voters. These states include the Deep South, Texas, and Arizona. And the four states with the most delegates, including Texas, Florida, New York, and California have a high enough non-white population that it’s impossible for Sanders to win with his pitiful non-white share.

    Clinton, however, is the default Democratic candidate, and unless there is a Jesse Jackson or Obama to vote for, blacks and most other non-whites will vote for the default candidate due to their lack of civic/political engagement. If Sanders wins Iowa and New Hampshire, he could very well be seen as a serious candidate and some non-whites will follow him, but it would not be because they are attracted to his message or movement.

    Unfortunately, neither he nor his supporters recognize that Vermont-style politics is only compatible with the demographics of Vermont.
    I still can't quite get Homer Simpson's neighbour out of my mind!
    That's Flanders - Stephanie's long lost US cousin :)
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    TGOHF said:

    Britain Elects
    Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+2)
    LAB: 31% (-)
    UKIP: 11% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-2)
    GRN: 4% (-2)
    (via Ipsos-Mori / 23 - 25 Jan)

    "Awwwlllriiiiiiiggght !!" and "Jez we Khan !!"


    Aaaaaalllll left! :lol:
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    Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting the zealotry of Corbynistas may not necessarily win them friends, or influence people?

    Indeed, to be honest, I'm more upset at his use of 'your' instead of 'you're' than calling me a wanker.
    "It's 'you're'.."

    You should reply with exactly that.
    I'm tempted to do that.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075

    Sky - EU to offer the UK an emergency break mechanism to curb EU migration into the UK

    Should that be 'brake'?
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    Sky - EU to offer the UK an emergency break mechanism to curb EU migration into the UK

    Should that be 'brake'?
    Already corrected, the joys of auto-correct.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Sky - EU to offer the UK an emergency brake mechanism to curb EU migration into the UK

    One already exists, the control over it rests with the EC, unless they are going to hand over control to HMG then it is literally a nothing offer.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    How much would the loss for the Gov't be crystallised at if Llloyds were to be sold now ?

    It's a real shame they aren't being sold, with the 5% to market discount and 10% additional allocation it would have respresented great value.

    One problem the Gov't has creted is that if you own any Lloyds shares then you aren't eligible for the offer. So the sale delay will probably mean less small buyers in the market (Why buy at market when you can get market - 5% + 1/10th more after a year ?), which will probably adversely affect the share price.

    Doubt that the lack of retail buying will impact share price one way or another.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Comedy sub sample alert

    Ipsos Mori Scotland


    SNP 44%
    Con 34%
    Lab 16%
    UKIP 4%
    Greens 1%
    Lib Dems 0 (yes zero)

    Smelling salts most definitely on standby.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How much would the loss for the Gov't be crystallised at if Llloyds were to be sold now ?

    It's a real shame they aren't being sold, with the 5% to market discount and 10% additional allocation it would have respresented great value.

    One problem the Gov't has creted is that if you own any Lloyds shares then you aren't eligible for the offer. So the sale delay will probably mean less small buyers in the market (Why buy at market when you can get market - 5% + 1/10th more after a year ?), which will probably adversely affect the share price.

    My mum has had about 500 shares since before the crash. I insisted that she voted against the merger with HBoS as I knew it was a complete stitch up. Alas enough of the other shareholders bought the utter drivel spouted by the firm clearly acting on before of Gordon Brown.
    ELF made a bunch out of the transaction and now swans about in @rcs1000's postcode
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,070
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How much would the loss for the Gov't be crystallised at if Llloyds were to be sold now ?

    It's a real shame they aren't being sold, with the 5% to market discount and 10% additional allocation it would have respresented great value.

    One problem the Gov't has creted is that if you own any Lloyds shares then you aren't eligible for the offer. So the sale delay will probably mean less small buyers in the market (Why buy at market when you can get market - 5% + 1/10th more after a year ?), which will probably adversely affect the share price.

    My mum has had about 500 shares since before the crash. I insisted that she voted against the merger with HBoS as I knew it was a complete stitch up. Alas enough of the other shareholders bought the utter drivel spouted by the firm clearly acting on before of Gordon Brown.
    ELF made a bunch out of the transaction and now swans about in @rcs1000's postcode
    ELF?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Charles, 'bunch'?! This is a family website!

    Mr. Max, if that is so, my gast remains unflabbered.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Mr. Wanderer, second dog had been bought by an idiot son for his wheelchair-bound mother as a companion. Might make sense with some dogs, but not a border collie. Given her hysterical reaction to light (ie reflections on the wall and so on) I'd guess she was kept in something like a cupboard under the stairs, or the mother tried to use reflected light for playing.

    When we first got her, she didn't even know how to play properly. We rolled a ball for her, and she just watched it in confusion (didn't take long for her to get it, though).

    Miss Plato, I might not be explaining the situation quite accurately. The dog does bark at the postman etc, but she's easily distracted and it doesn't last long. It's just that I work (and, er, post on pb.com) on the computer upstairs, and she's downstairs. She also really likes company (very friendly with strangers visiting and even the day we got her she was confident seeing the vet). She's also used to people being around constantly.

    She's only 8-9 months, but it might be that she's at the stage for the cage to go (earlier than I would've expected, though). It's a bit annoying right now, but it's not (having had the aforementioned second hysterical hound) something that I think it a serious issue.

    Nevertheless, I'll give the site a quick look and see what I think.

    Can you take her upstairs with you? Maybe it's just separation anxiety?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Mr eagles,I thought you posted that you were siding with the out campaign on the EU vote,you seem to keep posting negative post on the out campaign when you could similar find negatives on the in campaign.

    I apologise if I'm mistaken that you didn't post that you was siding with the out vote.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Wanderer, I don't think it's good to try that. I'd be more tempted to try letting her out of her cage, see how she does downstairs by herself (she needs to get used to people being absent sometimes). Downside, of course, being the risk I come down and find the furniture ruined (with the aforementioned second hound, she once utterly destroyed a light wicker-work style bin. Spread it across the whole lounge floor, took ages to clear up).
This discussion has been closed.