Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Worries about the economy at highest level since 2013

1356

Comments

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Anyone choosing to stay in Calais is dismissable Southam unless there is a reason they can't apply for asylum in France. What is so horrendous about France that they are seeking refuge from France to the UK?

    The French
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    watford30 said:

    Moses_ said:
    From the article -

    'Speaking to ITV on Monday following his visit, Mr Corbyn called for a humane response to the migration in Calais.

    He said: 'I'm not saying all 9,000 should come. Start with those that have a British connection and a British passport - that's an obvious one.

    'And the Home Office can let up a bit and be reasonable in those cases.'

    Mr Corbyn said he had been 'surprised' by how many people at the camp he had met who held British passports.


    Why are they in the camp if they hold a British passport. Are they fake? Am I missing something here?
    A humane response would be to (a) ask for ID/documentation (b) if they have none, to detain, photograph, fingerprint and interview them (c) put them in a secure facility - give them 7 days to claim asylum or admit they have no legal reason for entry (d) if they do claim asylum, to rigorously interview them and cross-check stories (d) if the stories don't add up (keep interviewing again and again for inconsistency) or they refuse to admit a country of origin make them subject to deportation within 30 days to a secure facility/ refugee camp in MENA (e) once they are there they can apply for further help and aid, where it is the only place it will be offered, or give up and go back home.
    You mean actually apply international law and conventions to the way these people should be handled? What a shocking thought.

    You have triggered me.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    runnymede said:

    Why are they in the camp if they hold a British passport

    Perhaps they like the vibrant, diverse community there.

    Perhaps they are attracted by the prospect of free housing and much else. Or perhaps they just like appearing on the telly with Jezza Corbyn.
    Or taking selfies with him on their personal I phones during this tour of a camp with appalling conditions. Etc etc etc. (See previous photos of Corbyn and "the refugees") . A commenter on another blog who is working here pointed out they have a better phone than he did.

    Just wondering .....How do they keep an I phone contract or even pay as you go now given they have err nothing but he clothes they stand up in?
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Anyone choosing to stay in Calais is dismissable Southam unless there is a reason they can't apply for asylum in France. What is so horrendous about France that they are seeking refuge from France to the UK?

    Maybe the solution is for us to have ourselves designated as an 'unsafe' country. That would put the human rights lawyers in a spin
  • Options
    Unless I live and mix with a wholly atypical group of people (OK, I admit most are Tories), I sense a truly massive degree of opposition to the vast number of people attempting to enter the UK and other EU countries (which of course would over time give them the entitlement to enter the UK).
    The overwhelming belief is that a large majority of such individuals are purely and simply economic migrants, looking for a better life, paid for by EU taxpayers.
    I may be wrong but I sense that the LEAVE vote in the forthcoming referendum will be significantly increased by British voters' resentment resulting from this threat of unjustified levels of immigration and the resulting effect on their lives and on their country.
  • Options
    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Anyone choosing to stay in Calais is dismissable Southam unless there is a reason they can't apply for asylum in France. What is so horrendous about France that they are seeking refuge from France to the UK?

    Hardly a surprise that the SWP are trying to help get people out Tory-run "broken Britain" to the paradise that is Socialist France...
    Oh.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    It is a UK issue because they are in Calais seeking easy passage to the UK. And the French are not taking appropriate action to deal with this large bunch of migrants.

    They should be doing exactly what @Casino_Royale just outlined - going into this camp and sorting out the genuine asylum seekers and kicking out the rest. But they aren't.

    This inactivity is encouraging more to go to Calais. Meaning more people trying to gain access to the UK through the tunnel - or, as happened just a few days ago, being egged on by UK-based anarchist agitators, to try to board a ferry in order to force their way into the UK

  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016

    watford30 said:

    it shows just how low thew standards of politics in this country has fallen to.

    Nah.....its always been like this. Each election is 'the dirtiest to date'. Each campaign 'more vicious than the last'. Each Prime Minister 'the most shameful disgrace' to hold the office.

    But, curiously enough, we're still here, in one of the most prosperous, safe large country in the world....

    What 'bunchgate' tells me is that we have an opposition flailing to articulate an alternative on the issue that wouldn't see them haemorrhage votes while still ferociously virtue signalling.
    There's merit in that, it's to Cameron's credit it's all they have to beat him up with, the use of swarm and bunch. My point is the tories are even worse, they spend hours laughing at Miliband eating a sandwich.
    Tories, like these two?

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/02/nigel-farage-shows-ed-miliband-how-to-eat-a-bacon-sandwich
    See what I mean? No faux outrage from Nigel and Paul, pure piss take, you do get that don't you?
    Faux outrage?

    You mentioned Tories spending hours 'laughing at Miliband eating a sandwich'. There's a photo of Kippers doing the same, mocking Milliband. What's the difference?
  • Options
    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    Calais is part of the U.K. if it wasn't for those dastardly French. It was said of Calais it is the brightest jewel in the English crown.

    Let's be honest, would you want to live somewhere full of French people. I sympathise with those wanting to move the UK as every English person should.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    watford30 said:

    watford30 said:

    it shows just how low thew standards of politics in this country has fallen to.

    Nah.....its always been like this. Each election is 'the dirtiest to date'. Each campaign 'more vicious than the last'. Each Prime Minister 'the most shameful disgrace' to hold the office.

    But, curiously enough, we're still here, in one of the most prosperous, safe large country in the world....

    What 'bunchgate' tells me is that we have an opposition flailing to articulate an alternative on the issue that wouldn't see them haemorrhage votes while still ferociously virtue signalling.
    There's merit in that, it's to Cameron's credit it's all they have to beat him up with, the use of swarm and bunch. My point is the tories are even worse, they spend hours laughing at Miliband eating a sandwich.
    Tories, like these two?

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/02/nigel-farage-shows-ed-miliband-how-to-eat-a-bacon-sandwich
    See what I mean? No faux outrage from Nigel and Paul, pure piss take, you do get that don't you?
    Faux outrage?

    You mentioned Tories spending hours 'laughing at Miliband eating a sandwich'. There's a photo of Kippers doing the same. What's the difference?
    You don't do irony do you, apart from constant carping about Nigel's wheel nuts.

  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    YouGov
    Brits tend to support re-introduction of national service – https://t.co/A1Kd1p6HLU https://t.co/aJFPuQaLk0
  • Options

    YouGov
    Brits tend to support re-introduction of national service – https://t.co/A1Kd1p6HLU https://t.co/aJFPuQaLk0

    This is the most relevant opinion poll on national service

    http://youtu.be/G0ZZJXw4MTA
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    I'd say the brightest jewel in the English crown has gone downhill somewhat since1598.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    So a review that hasn't started yet might consider something. Wow that is scary.

    I am fed up with this petty posturing on both sides of the EU debate. The reality is very different to how both sides are portraying it - and the game playing is making the necessary discussions almost impossible to have.
  • Options
    A Tory MP faces pressure to quit the board of the Vote Leave campaign after he led a failed coup against its leaders.

    In the latest bout of in-fighting in the drive to get Britain out of the European Union, MP Bernard Jenkin moved against campaign director Dominic Cummings and chief executive Matthew Elliott at a board meeting on Tuesday.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-bernard-jenkin-under-pressure-to-quit-vote-leave-campaign-after-coup-plot-a3167196.html
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Was that a silver teaspoon? If so, your innate privilege negates your opinions.

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Trump thumps back

    "@gene70: @FireFlyFury @megynkelly @realDonaldTrump And this is the bimbo that's asking presidential questions? https://t.co/oU1uUGnuWb"
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Perhaps she housed a bunch and claimed for them on expenses.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @RobMifune: Labour complaints this week:
    1. Doors painted red 20 yrs ago
    2. Wristband = free food
    3. Google paying £130m more tax than before
    4. "Bunch"
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Scott_P said:

    @RobMifune: Labour complaints this week:
    1. Doors painted red 20 yrs ago
    2. Wristband = free food
    3. Google paying £130m more tax than before
    4. "Bunch"

    Don't forget people with British passports stranded in Calais
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    Central Lobby
    75% more homes built in 2015 than during economic downturn, new @NHBC data reveals | https://t.co/Ibydd8dHzu https://t.co/WjtoI5w0Q1

    156,000 is not a figure to be proud of in an economic boom. The figure should be double that.
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SouthamObserver


    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion. '


    Agree there are lots of people desperately waiting to find something to be outraged about, don't know how Twitter would survive without them.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Central Lobby
    75% more homes built in 2015 than during economic downturn, new @NHBC data reveals | https://t.co/Ibydd8dHzu https://t.co/WjtoI5w0Q1

    156,000 is not a figure to be proud of in an economic boom. The figure should be double that.
    Hmm.. 156,000 is close to the last peak but yes evidently we should be aiming for more than the Labour boom years.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited January 2016

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/trump-strong-three-early-states-clinton-sanders-battle-poll-n505516

    Sample sizes for Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are enourmous by US standards.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    john_zims said:

    @SouthamObserver


    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion. '


    Agree there are lots of people desperately waiting to find something to be outraged about, don't know how Twitter would survive without them.

    I almost feel sorry for such people. Almost.

    If they are so sensitive as to get upset by words like "bunch" then they are going to spend their whole lives being either distressed, outraged or upset, or all three.

    It's a wonder they can function as independent adults at all.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I saw a report that Iowa is 176k!!!
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/trump-strong-three-early-states-clinton-sanders-battle-poll-n505516

    Sample sizes for Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are enourmous by US standards.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,430

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    john_zims said:

    @SouthamObserver


    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion. '


    Agree there are lots of people desperately waiting to find something to be outraged about, don't know how Twitter would survive without them.

    I almost feel sorry for such people. Almost.

    If they are so sensitive as to get upset by words like "bunch" then they are going to spend their whole lives being either distressed, outraged or upset, or all three.

    It's a wonder they can function as independent adults at all.
    Well I hope you never get upset about something I say then.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.

    Happy tidings from NBC News :)
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This is much more amusing than tedious #bunchgate

    Real Donald Trump
    Wow, two candidates called last night and said they want to go to my event tonight at Drake University.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    MaxPB said:

    Central Lobby
    75% more homes built in 2015 than during economic downturn, new @NHBC data reveals | https://t.co/Ibydd8dHzu https://t.co/WjtoI5w0Q1

    156,000 is not a figure to be proud of in an economic boom. The figure should be double that.
    Hmm.. 156,000 is close to the last peak but yes evidently we should be aiming for more than the Labour boom years.
    Double that amount if we are serious about increasing home ownership.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    edited January 2016

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    I don't know Blanchflowers predictions but was his mass unemployment claim based on what Osborne said he was going to do (eliminate the deficit in a single parliament) or what he actually did ( follow Labour's spending plans)?

    His prediction of five million unemployed was based on what Osborne said he was going to do, which was in fact quite close to what he did do. The slower reduction in deficit came largely as a result of the negative impact of the Euro-crisis on the UK economy.

    Osborne most certainly did not follow Labour's spending plans and was opposed at each and every turn by Miliband and Balls. While Darling had a nominal objective of halving the deficit by the end of the parliament (which is what I presume you refer to), he never laid out plans to get there, and nor did his successors.

    In any case, even if there was a deviation between what Osborne said he'd do and what he actually did, it doesn't go anywhere near far enough to explain the discrepancy between on the one hand Blanchflower's predictions of unemployment much worse than the 1980s, and on the other, the reality of the highest employment of all time.
    As you say - he could not follow labours spending plans because they did not have any. They did not have a spending review before the election.
    Osborne did not promise to eliminate the deficit in a parliament, he promised to eliminate the structural deficit. That still might leave elements of the cyclical deficit. As the OOB figures pointed out at the time, the structural deficit turned out to be bigger than supposed.
    Genuine question, pre-2010 general election can you point me to where Osborne says structural deficit rather than just deficit because a cursory Google search only points me towards deficit.
  • Options

    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.


    You are being derogatory to grapes (some of which might be black).

    I demand you are banned from this site.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    I believe the point about Cooper is that she did make an offer to provide a home for one of these migrants. But it would appear that she never did make good on that.

    That is why her posturing is so hypocritical.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    MaxPB said:

    Central Lobby
    75% more homes built in 2015 than during economic downturn, new @NHBC data reveals | https://t.co/Ibydd8dHzu https://t.co/WjtoI5w0Q1

    156,000 is not a figure to be proud of in an economic boom. The figure should be double that.
    If the houses already built were of a decent standard, and population growth was reasonable, 156,000 would be vast over-supply.

    Back to open borders and appalling post-war social housing.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.
    I think he was applying himself and knew what he was doing and will be happy with the results.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Just off for an early lunch.

    I fancy a bunch of grapes.

    Woman goes running into a police station shouting 'I've been graped, I've been graped' Policeman says 'don't you mean raped madam?' 'No' she says, 'there was a bunch of them'
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Golly

    Stephen Daisley
    .@kdugdalemsp says 287,000 work days lost in the Scottish NHS due to stress last year. An increase of 21% on two years ago. #fmqs
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited January 2016
    This sums it up for me

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    On topic, I think it is a measure of economic optimism that GDP figures released today have been met with a collective "meh" from everyone. There is not a lot of optimism, but at the same time there isn't a lot of pessimism outside of the AEP column's on the Telegraph website.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Wanderer said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the unot, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.
    I think he was applying himself and knew what he was doing and will be happy with the results.
    Perhaps.

    I would be vaguely disappointed if it was felt necessary to engage in dog-whistling if that is what it was.

    Efficient, good politics, but I would be vaguely disappointed.

    But then I am on the left of the far right of the Party.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    The numbers in the camp at Calais are about 6000 I believe. Hardly huge numbers dissatisfied with France.
    How many Germans migrate to the UK? Precious few. Rightly or wrongly Germany invited these people to Germany - because they need them. There are jobs in Germany. We have many Poles because we did not make use of transitional arrangements.

    Eight years is the time it takes to become a naturalised German citizen.
  • Options
    Now I know why I didn't like the American family sitcom "The Brady Bunch".

    Calling the family a "bunch" was clearly derogatory and would have put me off them.

  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wanderer said:

    The Tories are about to attack Sadiq over terror. He's got one way to beat them back. Me @labouruncut https://t.co/jslrJc2TKl

    Will that work for Zac, I wonder (assuming it really is Crosby's plan).

    The "Jeremy Corbyn's candidate" poster seemed quite good (as in likely to be effective) to me.
    Apathy will do for Zac, in a contest of mediocre candidates I think not enough will positively turn out against Khan for Zac to win.
    The "Corbyn's candidate" line is intended to dispel apathy, I suppose.
    The result will be based on who succeeds in GOTV. 38% vote at Mayorals, 70% at GE. dispelling apathy is a valid strategy to GOTV.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    The numbers in the camp at Calais are about 6000 I believe. Hardly huge numbers dissatisfied with France.
    How many Germans migrate to the UK? Precious few. Rightly or wrongly Germany invited these people to Germany - because they need them. There are jobs in Germany. We have many Poles because we did not make use of transitional arrangements.

    Eight years is the time it takes to become a naturalised German citizen.
    There are no more than 6000 at Calais because the conditions are awful. If the gates were opened, there'd be a lot more coming.

    The point about Germany is silly. If there are jobs there - and there are - then why not invite the millions of unemployed across Greece, Spain and the rest of the struggling Eurozone countries?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    I believe the point about Cooper is that she did make an offer to provide a home for one of these migrants. But it would appear that she never did make good on that.

    That is why her posturing is so hypocritical.
    Right. That's what I meant by "from either side". It was a silly offer of hers because it's nothing to do with the price of anything and (by personalising it like that) probably alienated some people who might have taken her side.

    Even if she had done it and managed to get an "Yvette has taken in a migrant but Dave (who lives in a thousand-room palace) hasn't" story running, it's still bad for her side to couch the issue in those terms.

    One sometimes sees the argument from the right, though, that people are hypocrites if they want to let migrants into their country but not their house. That's not a good argument imo (there are plenty of better ones).
  • Options

    MaxPB said:


    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    Point stands that the faux outrage on this is ridiculous...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    The numbers in the camp at Calais are about 6000 I believe. Hardly huge numbers dissatisfied with France.
    How many Germans migrate to the UK? Precious few. Rightly or wrongly Germany invited these people to Germany - because they need them. There are jobs in Germany. We have many Poles because we did not make use of transitional arrangements.

    Eight years is the time it takes to become a naturalised German citizen.
    There are no more than 6000 at Calais because the conditions are awful. If the gates were opened, there'd be a lot more coming.

    The point about Germany is silly. If there are jobs there - and there are - then why not invite the millions of unemployed across Greece, Spain and the rest of the struggling Eurozone countries?
    I must admit, if I was an unemployed Spaniard, I'd be heading to Berlin. Very low living expenses, and an incredibly buoyant jobs market. You can rent an apartment (a whole apartment) for as little as 600 Euros a month.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Moses_

    'Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy? '


    Has she told us yet when her 'spare house' was given to asylum seekers ?

    She wouldn't have been making empty gestures during her recent bid for the Labour leadership ?

    Surprised that Twitter hasn't been swamped by people demanding an answer.

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    edited January 2016
    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    MaxPB said:

    I have not heard it, but calling a large group of people with very different stories a "bunch of migrants" does sound pretty dismissive to me. It potentially conveys contempt for individuals living in atrocious conditions whose motivations are often complex and whose experiences are sometimes truly tragic. It sounds like Cameron was using the phrase to have a dig at Corbyn. That only works if these people are thought of as dismissible.

    I am not surprised many on the left have expressed dismay and anger at the words and how they were used. I think they are absolutely genuine in doing so. This looks to me to be a case of very different world views. We are all sensitive to different things.

    SO

    As I say, this is a case of very different world views. I totally get the point you are making. But I totally get why people on the left are upset by what Cameron said.

    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the usual suspects who spend their time looking for things they can get offended by on behalf of unsuspecting others, this is a storm in a teaspoon.

    What to do about large numbers of migrants wanting to settle in Europe and Britain in particular is not an easy question. But for the vast majority, if the question is do we WANT many tens of thousand of people to come here, well, like it or not, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    But we know from that Canadian "academic" that the OED is a deeply misogynistic institution which uses language to crush women. So it is probably deeply racist as well. We can't trust the OED
  • Options
    LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    Scott_P said:

    @RobMifune: Labour complaints this week:
    1. Doors painted red 20 yrs ago
    2. Wristband = free food
    3. Google paying £130m more tax than before
    4. "Bunch"

    Don't forget people with British passports stranded in Calais
    In fairness, people with British passports are stranded in Calais on a fairly regular basis. Normally when the ferry workers/farmers/other disgruntled French folk are on strike (again). Or perhaps when "migrants" and their supporters have stormed the tunnel/a ferry/blocked the roads.

    On a more serious note, A French acquaintance who has relatives in Calais was saying what a nightmare situation it is becoming for the regular inhabitants. The roads around are regularly blocked, so it can become a bit siege-like. It can feel quite scary at times with some of the migrant activity, not to mention the behaviour of many of those who claim to support them. (I'm talking here about some of the hard left/anarchist groups rather than the more genuine "charity types"). And because the number of day-trippers has fallen off so steeply, local businesses are struggling to survive.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
    You have just described 98% of all internet interactions.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    john_zims said:

    @Moses_

    'Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy? '


    Has she told us yet when her 'spare house' was given to asylum seekers ?

    She wouldn't have been making empty gestures during her recent bid for the Labour leadership ?

    Surprised that Twitter hasn't been swamped by people demanding an answer.

    Look who else offered to take a refugee.

    'Sturgeon told the Murnaghan programme on Sky News that she would be “absolutely happy” to take a refugee from Syria.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-and-yvette-cooper-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees

    Perhaps one of the Nat Bunch can fill us in as to whether she held good on her offer.
  • Options
    Lots of (commendable, gullible, fill in as you please) bleeding heart types who offered housing for migrants were told it would be unsuitable. Few people have an entire house going spare and it simply isn't policy right now to put people up in a spare room. So not sure the accusations of hypocrisy are accurate, though I have no doubt some of the more public "I'd take a migrant in" pronouncements were purely posturing by folk who knew it would never come to that.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    Cameron should come out as a Pastafarian at the next PMQs. Just for the lolz:

    Pastafarians believe heaven is a beer volcano with a stripper factory, while hell is the same but the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases.

    Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/28/the-netherlands-has-recognised-the-church-of-the-flying-spaghetti-monster-as-a-religion-5649017/#ixzz3yXbNhHCt"
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    TOPPING said:

    Wanderer said:

    TOPPING said:



    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the unot, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.
    I think he was applying himself and knew what he was doing and will be happy with the results.
    Perhaps.

    I would be vaguely disappointed if it was felt necessary to engage in dog-whistling if that is what it was.

    Efficient, good politics, but I would be vaguely disappointed.

    But then I am on the left of the far right of the Party.
    Is it a dog-whistle? Wouldn't that mean that right-wingers were intended to pick up the signal and no-one else? I think, rather, that Dave intended to wind up the left and enlist their help in pushing his Labour-are-on-the-side-of-not-you message.

    Which party are you on the left of the far-right of btw? Very intriguing self-description.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
    That's another matter. One should be true to one's beer-drinking self.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    How is it pronounced? What is it?
    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Lots of (commendable, gullible, fill in as you please) bleeding heart types who offered housing for migrants were told it would be unsuitable. Few people have an entire house going spare and it simply isn't policy right now to put people up in a spare room. So not sure the accusations of hypocrisy are accurate, though I have no doubt some of the more public "I'd take a migrant in" pronouncements were purely posturing by folk who knew it would never come to that.

    Well the Cooper-Balls family are not short of property - they have a lovely portfolio funded by the state. They could have moved into just one of their homes and let the others to people in genuine need.

    And, of course, they could have collected the rent for that - meaning even more public money going into the Cooper-Balls accounts.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Dixie said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wanderer said:

    The Tories are about to attack Sadiq over terror. He's got one way to beat them back. Me @labouruncut https://t.co/jslrJc2TKl

    Will that work for Zac, I wonder (assuming it really is Crosby's plan).

    The "Jeremy Corbyn's candidate" poster seemed quite good (as in likely to be effective) to me.
    Apathy will do for Zac, in a contest of mediocre candidates I think not enough will positively turn out against Khan for Zac to win.
    The "Corbyn's candidate" line is intended to dispel apathy, I suppose.
    The result will be based on who succeeds in GOTV. 38% vote at Mayorals, 70% at GE. dispelling apathy is a valid strategy to GOTV.
    Absolutely. How do you think it will play out?

    My opinion (and betting) was that Sadiq was very likely to win. I think Zac's campaign is beginning to look competent though.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Wanderer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Wanderer said:

    TOPPING said:



    But they aren't genuinely upset - this is a classic example of faux outrage in order to distract attention from their own failings.

    And by continuing to peddle this particular line, they are only making themselves look more and more out of touch

    I disagree - I think a lot of people are genuinely upset. But I also agree that this probably makes them out of touch with majority opinion.

    My wife said she bought a bunch of bananas yesterday. I had to upbraid her for her callousness and remind her it was a "group" of bananas. Totally different...

    Apart from the unot, that IS an easy question. No thanks.
    I'm afraid you wife is correct - bunch is the collective noun for bananas, grapes and other fruit that grow together. Yours, Mr Pedantic. :-)

    The OED allows 'bunch' to be applied to a group of people, but says it is informal use.
    The serious point to be made being that even though Jezza is in whatever category is below worse than useless, Dave can't afford to relax at PMQs, or anywhere else. He was chatting away "informally" but needs to apply himself all the time even when facing the shower that Lab has become.
    I think he was applying himself and knew what he was doing and will be happy with the results.
    Perhaps.

    I would be vaguely disappointed if it was felt necessary to engage in dog-whistling if that is what it was.

    Efficient, good politics, but I would be vaguely disappointed.

    But then I am on the left of the far right of the Party.
    Is it a dog-whistle? Wouldn't that mean that right-wingers were intended to pick up the signal and no-one else? I think, rather, that Dave intended to wind up the left and enlist their help in pushing his Labour-are-on-the-side-of-not-you message.

    Which party are you on the left of the far-right of btw? Very intriguing self-description.
    Sorry yes - my misuse of dog-whistle. It did indeed (and might have been intended to, hence my disappointment) wind up the left inviting them to jump with both feet into the wrong side of the argument.

    From my comments shall you knoweth my party.. Or let's put it like this: I am a caring enough Conservative supporter to recognise the tragedy that has befallen Labour.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
    That's another matter. One should be true to one's beer-drinking self.
    Well, it's an issue for as long as the Government thinks twitterstorms and Facebook reshares are representative of public opinion.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    I call it kin-o-wa. Just to annoy the purists who insist it is keen-wah

    And you don't want to eat it to find out - just stick to cous-cous
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    John_M said:

    Good morning all. The Calais camp is one reason while I'm unpersuaded that Germany's migrants will stay put.

    As many others have asked, why are they not settling down in France, getting jobs and learning the lingo? That's always the line that people use to placate those who worry about immigration. Why is Calais a UK issue?

    The numbers in the camp at Calais are about 6000 I believe. Hardly huge numbers dissatisfied with France.
    How many Germans migrate to the UK? Precious few. Rightly or wrongly Germany invited these people to Germany - because they need them. There are jobs in Germany. We have many Poles because we did not make use of transitional arrangements.

    Eight years is the time it takes to become a naturalised German citizen.
    There are no more than 6000 at Calais because the conditions are awful. If the gates were opened, there'd be a lot more coming.

    The point about Germany is silly. If there are jobs there - and there are - then why not invite the millions of unemployed across Greece, Spain and the rest of the struggling Eurozone countries?
    Yes, this idea that Germany is importing a workforce is ridiculous. There are enough eastern Europeans and southern Europeans who could go to Germany. It was never about importing labour, it was a stupid decision by Merkel to try and repent for Germany's Nazi history and make them look like they have moved on from it.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Keen-o-waaah. It's a grain from Latin America which is some new "superfood". It's all the rage in Islington and Camden.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    #Bunch, #Bunchgate traffic on twitter has ceased – the fauxoutrage bus has moved on.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    But we know from that Canadian "academic" that the OED is a deeply misogynistic institution which uses language to crush women. So it is probably deeply racist as well. We can't trust the OED

    Obviously, we can't burn the whole of the OED. A fire that big could easily get out of hand. But perhaps the Left could organise a symbolic offering up of words that cause offence, to be thrown into a fiery cleanser....

    Alternatively, they could spend the time thinking up some policies that connect with voters.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    Don't hate me because I didn't get the longer "Keen"...
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    You may live, comrade.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,667
    watford30 said:

    john_zims said:

    @Moses_

    'Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy? '


    Has she told us yet when her 'spare house' was given to asylum seekers ?

    She wouldn't have been making empty gestures during her recent bid for the Labour leadership ?

    Surprised that Twitter hasn't been swamped by people demanding an answer.

    Look who else offered to take a refugee.

    'Sturgeon told the Murnaghan programme on Sky News that she would be “absolutely happy” to take a refugee from Syria.'

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-and-yvette-cooper-offer-to-house-syrian-refugees

    Perhaps one of the Nat Bunch can fill us in as to whether she held good on her offer.
    Cooper never made such an offer - check out her weasely answer her:

    "“If that’s what it took and that’s what was needed, then of course, I think lots of people would be. But I think what I’ve been calling for is for each city and each county to support 10 refugee families. I think we can do that, I think we’ve got a lot of people across the country coming forward now and saying: ‘Do you know what, we want to help’.”
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MXP QUINOA has been in use for a long time in Italy..so has Buckwheat..another type of grass.. we use both on a weekly basis
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Top trolling on Corbyn

    Greg Hands
    Why is it only you in hi-vis jacket & helmet? Do they think you're accident prone? https://t.co/5hgRU4Vgyd
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    MaxPB said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Keen-o-waaah. It's a grain from Latin America which is some new "superfood". It's all the rage in Islington and Camden.
    I expect you know that there is now an argument that westerners should not eat it as our appetite for it has (allegedly) made it too expensive for the people whose stable it used to be.

    However I'm sure that one can obtain ethical quinoa if one tries. And one does try, does one not?
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    OT - Another Met cover-up scandal brewing?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35429630

    No evidence of abuse at the Kids Company? Really?

    I hope they are continuing to investigate the other criminal activities associated with that bunch of charlatans
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited January 2016
    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,599
    edited January 2016
    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    You flipping plebs, it isn't Kinn-wah, Kee-NOO-ah is how I pronounce it, was in a Times magazine piece a while ago.

    Kinn-wah is the Spanish version of the original South American pronunciation.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    You flipping plebs, it isn't Kinn-wah, Kee-NOO-ah is how I pronounce it, was in a Times magazine piece a while ago.

    Kinn-wah is the Spanish version of the original South American pronunciation.

    I thought it was pronounced: NO-than-ks
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    You flipping plebs, it isn't Kinn-wah, Kee-NOO-ah is how I pronounce it, was in a Times magazine piece a while ago.

    Kinn-wah is the Spanish version of the original South American pronunciation.
    Never mind how you say it, what is it?
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Moses_ said:

    Out of curiosity, how many who claimed they'd home a migrant actually did? Only in their other home if at all?

    Yvette and her mou face springs to mind.

    Apparently the fragrant Yvette was most put out yesterday and very distressed ( think that little wrinkled worried face look she always has) by Dave's use of the horrific word "bunch" to describe these law breakers. No doubt she will immediately offer her home(s) as a safe haven to some of these families as a suitable response ......

    Oh? she offered that before though didn't she so maybe not then and it's just more leftie hypocrisy?
    I don't think this "would you have them in your own home" argument is a good one, from either side.

    It's not hypocritical to be fine with the state doing something (knowing that one is paying for it through one's taxes) while not wanting to provide the same service personally.
    There are a number of my centre-left friends whose online activity does not reflect what they'd say over a beer to me on a 1:1 privately.
    That's another matter. One should be true to one's beer-drinking self.
    Well, it's an issue for as long as the Government thinks twitterstorms and Facebook reshares are representative of public opinion.
    Do you think the Government does think that? (Or am I reading too much into your comment?)
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369

    Lots of (commendable, gullible, fill in as you please) bleeding heart types who offered housing for migrants were told it would be unsuitable. Few people have an entire house going spare and it simply isn't policy right now to put people up in a spare room. So not sure the accusations of hypocrisy are accurate, though I have no doubt some of the more public "I'd take a migrant in" pronouncements were purely posturing by folk who knew it would never come to that.

    There's inverse hypocrisy too - people who say "Oi, prominent leftie X hasn't taken in a migrant, so nobody needs to do anything".

    In general, most people feel uncomfortable in making a public issue of helping someone anyway. Years ago as an MP I offered to put up a woman and two kids while they sorted themselves out after they'd suffered domestic violence. It wouldn't have occurred to me at the time to talk about it to anyone else, but I think most of us would rally round for a bit in a crunch if we could.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    TOPPING said:

    How is it pronounced? What is it?

    TOPPING said:

    runnymede said:

    Kevin Saunders
    #bbcdp 80,000 kids need a home in UK already. Obviously no brownie points available for lefties to worry about these. https://t.co/dmNZz3vtI5


    'Give us your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses...'cos we can't stand the ones we have here'

    thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-reject-votes-from-people-who-cant-pronounce-quinoa-20150821101325
    Not to incriminate myself but I believe it is Kinn-wah.
    You flipping plebs, it isn't Kinn-wah, Kee-NOO-ah is how I pronounce it, was in a Times magazine piece a while ago.

    Kinn-wah is the Spanish version of the original South American pronunciation.

    I thought it was pronounced: NO-than-ks
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Top trolling on Corbyn

    Greg Hands
    Why is it only you in hi-vis jacket & helmet? Do they think you're accident prone? https://t.co/5hgRU4Vgyd

    It's a better look than Gordon in body armour.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    edited January 2016

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
    Is that a national VI - or just for London (which would be a shocker!!)
  • Options
    Corbyn toxic - I could have told you that

    Blow #3 for Corbyn - public backs dividends idea, but support drops when his name is added. Toxic? see @ipsosMORI
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Blow 2 for Corbyn - Labour has lowest scoring team of leaders since 1989 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    Blow #4 for Corbyn - Labour less clear and united than any time since 1991 - see @ipsosMORI in @eveningstandard https://t.co/jUqO6g6zM9

    VI appears to be Con 40 Lab 31 UKIP 11 LD 7.
    Is that a national VI - or just for London (which would be a shocker!!)
    National: https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3690/Conservatives-take-their-biggest-lead-over-Labour-as-party-with-best-team-of-leaders-and-most-clear-and-united.aspx
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Crying with laughter right now
    Wanderer said:

    Top trolling on Corbyn

    Greg Hands
    Why is it only you in hi-vis jacket & helmet? Do they think you're accident prone? https://t.co/5hgRU4Vgyd

    It's a better look than Gordon in body armour.
This discussion has been closed.