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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If GE2015 had gone the way that today’s ICM sample remember

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  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Oh, come on, Mr. Nabavi. He is talking about efficiency savings. Probably you haven't had enough exposure to the public sector, but during Brown's tenure (and especially towards the end) they were all the rage. Surely you remember Labour's 2010 budget which said that the NHS would not need any extra funding as it could find £10bn in efficiency savings.

    Well, if he's saying that France needs to transfer spending from wasteful areas to helping the unemployed, he's on the wrong track. France doesn't need to spend a Euro more than it currently does. It just needs to sweep away anti-business, anti-employment regulation. Fining employers for employing, and making it near-impossible to get rid of employees, is a perfect way of boosting unemployment.
    I used to run an IT Support department in Paris France. Besides the incredible taxes and all the other nonsense, it is almost impossible to fire anyone. It took me almost a year to get rid of someone.

    It was so bad that one manager had his company car bought and registered in England to avoid taxes..
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Chris_A said:

    Danny565 said:

    Basically finger in the air stuff. Think Mikes point about paying attention to the leadership ratings -and perhaps other underlying questions - much more indicative than VI polls. On that count, Labour must be doing pretty poorly.

    But if John Curtice's theory last week was right (that the polls were wrong simply because they were never surveying enough Tories, rather than it being "shy Tories" or a late swing), that suggests leadership ratings are not a good indicator either -- Curtice thinks the opinion polls were in fact an accurate predictor of how the people who took part in the polls voted, despite those same polls giving the Tories big leads on leadership and the economy.
    But we are never going to get perfect surveys as Tories and non-public sector workers in general have better things to do than answer surveys like work or do something else. So if leadership ratings are a good proxy then it may make sense to use them - if the hardcore left wing public sector workers who can be bothered to answer polls are thinking "he's crap but I'm voting for him anyway" then the chances are that those who aren't answering the polls are thinking "he's crap and I'm not voting for him".
    And here's another PB contributor knocking the feckless, lazy public sector workers. It's laughable really that people with such a mindset exist.
    From a contributor with such firmly held views on 'Tories'?

    Physician, heal thyself. (Though not on a strike day. Or at weekends).
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Oh, come on, Mr. Nabavi. He is talking about efficiency savings. Probably you haven't had enough exposure to the public sector, but during Brown's tenure (and especially towards the end) they were all the rage. Surely you remember Labour's 2010 budget which said that the NHS would not need any extra funding as it could find £10bn in efficiency savings.

    Well, if he's saying that France needs to transfer spending from wasteful areas to helping the unemployed, he's on the wrong track. France doesn't need to spend a Euro more than it currently does. It just needs to sweep away anti-business, anti-employment regulation. Fining employers for employing, and making it near-impossible to get rid of employees, is a perfect way of boosting unemployment.
    That whooshing sound you might hear in a minute or two will be th squadron of Gloucester Old Spots that have just flown past my sturdy window heading East.

    L'exception Francaise, Mr Nabavi, L'exception Francaise. It has stood them in good stead for sixty years, why would they change now?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Has Corbyn done James Bond yet?

    Ed Miliband managed to call for Jane Bond.

    Just wondering how Corbyn is going to top that.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    Danny565 said:

    Basically finger in the air stuff. Think Mikes point about paying attention to the leadership ratings -and perhaps other underlying questions - much more indicative than VI polls. On that count, Labour must be doing pretty poorly.

    But if John Curtice's theory last week was right (that the polls were wrong simply because they were never surveying enough Tories, rather than it being "shy Tories" or a late swing), that suggests leadership ratings are not a good indicator either -- Curtice thinks the opinion polls were in fact an accurate predictor of how the people who took part in the polls voted, despite those same polls giving the Tories big leads on leadership and the economy.
    But we are never going to get perfect surveys as Tories and non-public sector workers in general have better things to do than answer surveys like work or do something else. So if leadership ratings are a good proxy then it may make sense to use them - if the hardcore left wing public sector workers who can be bothered to answer polls are thinking "he's crap but I'm voting for him anyway" then the chances are that those who aren't answering the polls are thinking "he's crap and I'm not voting for him".
    And here's another PB contributor knocking the feckless, lazy public sector workers. It's laughable really that people with such a mindset exist.
    From a contributor with such firmly held views on 'Tories'?

    Physician, heal thyself. (Though not on a strike day. Or at weekends).
    Well I've voted Tory more often in general elections than other parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Has Corbyn done James Bond yet?

    Ed Miliband managed to call for Jane Bond.

    Just wondering how Corbyn is going to top that.

    Jihadi Bond, obviously. Duh.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    I see Labour = LAV in the thread header.

    Corbyn flushing Labour down the lavatory.

    Freudian slip?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Tragic news today for the 1,000 losing their jobs in Wales. Newsnight's response is to get luvvie Michael Sheen on for his views...... Unspoofable? Time for bed.

    You would never think about the Port Talbot news from reading PB today. Parliament (well it turns out to be a committee) is debating Donald Trump!

    The BBC did spend some time in fact showing tons and tons of surplus steel rusting around in China. Plus Chinese steelmills closing and Chinese steelworkers sitting around redundant.
    China is dumping steel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755

    I see Labour = LAV in the thread header.

    Corbyn flushing Labour down the lavatory.

    Freudian slip?

    More a case of the "v"being next to the "b" on Mike's phone or autocorrect.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Now why can't we have this woman as Health Secretary. She at least knows what she's talking about.

    The NHS can't function properly unless/until patients can be safely discharged, social care needs higher priority https://t.co/8asdZ5H2bF

    — Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) January 18, 2016
    Yes she does

    A leading Tory MP has branded planned strike action by junior doctors “appalling” and “highly unsafe” and warned it could harm patients.

    Sarah Wollaston, a former GP who chairs the Commons Health Select Committee, said the proposed walk out was “extreme” and called the move an “extraordinary step".

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11993121/Junior-doctor-strike-appalling-and-highly-unsafe-says-leading-Tory-MP.html
    But remind me what has Osborne promised on social care?
    I thought we were discussing the woman you wanted as Health Secretary just last week saying the strike will "solve nothing; just harm patients and undermine public trust. Doctors shouldn't walk out on their patients"



    We wouldn't be having any strikes if Dr Woolaston was Health Secretary. But do remind me what has Osborne promised for social care? If I remember right, like health spending that too will fall over this parliament as a percentage of GDP.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Has Corbyn done James Bond yet?

    Ed Miliband managed to call for Jane Bond.

    Just wondering how Corbyn is going to top that.

    James Bond – standard issue Beretta 418, but without the bullets and an electric car..?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Couple more summers and AfD will be the most popular party in Germany.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    L'exception Francaise, Mr Nabavi, L'exception Francaise. It has stood them in good stead for sixty years, why would they change now?

    They probably won't, but, then again, you could have said much the same about the UK in the Seventies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 18
    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. Adrian Golly Chiles was totally dismissive and had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Forgive me, I'm missing the drama there?
    AfD have been hovering around 11% for a while. However I think this is their highest and the CDU's lowest for a good while. Might the lowest for CDU since the last election?

    But not seismic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Now why can't we have this woman as Health Secretary. She at least knows what she's talking about.

    The NHS can't function properly unless/until patients can be safely discharged, social care needs higher priority https://t.co/8asdZ5H2bF

    — Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) January 18, 2016
    Yes she does

    A leading Tory MP has branded planned strike action by junior doctors “appalling” and “highly unsafe” and warned it could harm patients.

    Sarah Wollaston, a former GP who chairs the Commons Health Select Committee, said the proposed walk out was “extreme” and called the move an “extraordinary step".

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11993121/Junior-doctor-strike-appalling-and-highly-unsafe-says-leading-Tory-MP.html
    But remind me what has Osborne promised on social care?
    I thought we were discussing the woman you wanted as Health Secretary just last week saying the strike will "solve nothing; just harm patients and undermine public trust. Doctors shouldn't walk out on their patients"

    We wouldn't be having any strikes if Dr Woolaston was Health Secretary. But do remind me what has Osborne promised for social care? If I remember right, like health spending that too will fall over this parliament as a percentage of GDP.

    When you say "fall as a percentage of GDP", you mean "rise", I believe.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Tim_B said:

    I'm not a tennis follower, but the current tennis match fixing scandal has reached me.

    ESPN's Outside The Lines today was devoted to it, and they re-ran their report from February 2008 about it, heavily featuring Betfair.

    The betting outfits apparently jointly maintain a list of tennis matches featuring unusual betting patterns or results, currently (as of 2008) over 150 matches, including Wimbledon.

    Is this the same story coming up over and over again, pretty much? The Telegraph sports section ran this as their front page story in 2003ish.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    kle4 said:

    Has Corbyn done James Bond yet?

    Ed Miliband managed to call for Jane Bond.

    Just wondering how Corbyn is going to top that.

    Jihadi Bond, obviously. Duh.
    0072
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited 2016 18
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Now why can't we have this woman as Health Secretary. She at least knows what she's talking about.

    The NHS can't function properly unless/until patients can be safely discharged, social care needs higher priority https://t.co/8asdZ5H2bF

    — Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) January 18, 2016
    Yes she does

    A leading Tory MP has branded planned strike action by junior doctors “appalling” and “highly unsafe” and warned it could harm patients.

    Sarah Wollaston, a former GP who chairs the Commons Health Select Committee, said the proposed walk out was “extreme” and called the move an “extraordinary step".

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11993121/Junior-doctor-strike-appalling-and-highly-unsafe-says-leading-Tory-MP.html
    But remind me what has Osborne promised on social care?
    I thought we were discussing the woman you wanted as Health Secretary just last week saying the strike will "solve nothing; just harm patients and undermine public trust. Doctors shouldn't walk out on their patients"

    We wouldn't be having any strikes if Dr Woolaston was Health Secretary.
    ....


    Wishful thinking, Mr. A.. If La Woolaston was health secretary then she would be under the same pressures as the present incumbent. What could she do that the present chap can not? You hated Lansley, you now hate Hunt, you would hate Woolastan or, for that matter anyone who has to run the NHS without an unlimited budget.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    In what was a thoughtful, well-measured and considered comment this morning by David Cameron on integrating Muslim communities into wider British society, and reducing misogynism, isolation and exclusion in the same, the responses so far have been 'stereotyping Britain’s Muslims communities as different and outsiders”, ""lazy and misguided", "playing to the gallery" and “using British Muslims as a political football to score cheap points to appear tough” and one Muslim female organisation welcomed the interest but said Cameron was 'confusing issues' and the real problem was actually hate crimes towards Muslim women.

    I see no evidence any of them have even started to accept there's any sort of problem.

    Is it any wonder senior politicians don't broach this subject more often?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Tracy as Chancellor Merkel :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Wanderer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Forgive me, I'm missing the drama there?
    AfD have been hovering around 11% for a while. However I think this is their highest and the CDU's lowest for a good while. Might the lowest for CDU since the last election?

    But not seismic.
    Drama, for me, would have been AfD at 20%+
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    The BPC inquiry main findings will be published around midnight and half past midnight.

    Is worth staying up for.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    I see Labour = LAV in the thread header.

    Corbyn flushing Labour down the lavatory.

    Freudian slip?

    More a case of the "v"being next to the "b" on Mike's phone or autocorrect.
    Mwah, that's what you think.

    Right, time for some shutteye. Night 'all.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Basically finger in the air stuff. Think Mikes point about paying attention to the leadership ratings -and perhaps other underlying questions - much more indicative than VI polls. On that count, Labour must be doing pretty poorly.

    But if John Curtice's theory last week was right (that the polls were wrong simply because they were never surveying enough Tories, rather than it being "shy Tories" or a late swing), that suggests leadership ratings are not a good indicator either -- Curtice thinks headline voting intention figures were in fact an accurate predictor of how the people who took part in the opinion polls voted, despite those same polls giving the Tories big leads on leadership and the economy.
    Those ratings might be a useful sign how less politically minded voters will break.
    Is there a logical reason to think that though? After all, Nick Clegg was ahead on leadership ratings in the 2010 election most of the time, yet that was far from a sign of how the less politically-minded voters broke!

    (In fact, much as people talk about the 2015 polling failure being "unprecedented", people seem to have forgotten how badly they failed with the Lib Dems in 2010: perhaps because of the exact same phenomenon that overestimated Labour in 2015, of a certain type of "Guardianish" person being much more enthusiastic about taking part in opinion polls than the average person?)
    The polls have been off in every election at least since 92 haven't they? It's just that it didn't change the expected result. Eg, in 1997 Labour underperformed the final polls but "Labour disappoints" wasn't the story the following day!
    Except ICM in 1997 which predicted a Labour lead of 10% rather than the actual result of a Labour lead of 13%. Also ICM's penultimate poll showed Labour's lead at a mere 5% and caused some jitters in Labour ranks.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Forgive me, I'm missing the drama there?
    AfD have been hovering around 11% for a while. However I think this is their highest and the CDU's lowest for a good while. Might the lowest for CDU since the last election?

    But not seismic.
    Drama, for me, would have been AfD at 20%+
    Yes, that would be Wagnerian.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    AndyJS said:

    Bit unexpected — Cameron gets tough on face veils:

    "David Cameron backs bans on Muslim face veils as Tories plan crackdown on gender segregation
    Prime Minister says it is 'proper and sensible' for Muslim women to remove face veils when asked to by public officials"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/12106833/David-Cameron-I-will-back-schools-and-courts-which-ban-face-veils.html

    Good for Cameron. It's high time these sensitive issues were delicately tackled.

    I hope he tenaciously and diplomatically faces down the inevitable backlash and ignores the social media Nazis (and memes) that are sure to follow.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    I'm not a tennis follower, but the current tennis match fixing scandal has reached me.

    ESPN's Outside The Lines today was devoted to it, and they re-ran their report from February 2008 about it, heavily featuring Betfair.

    The betting outfits apparently jointly maintain a list of tennis matches featuring unusual betting patterns or results, currently (as of 2008) over 150 matches, including Wimbledon.

    Is this the same story coming up over and over again, pretty much? The Telegraph sports section ran this as their front page story in 2003ish.
    According to ESPN, this was first noticed in 2002. Today's OTL says that 16 of the current top 50 are involved, and 8 of them are playing in the Australian Open. No names were given.

    This is apparently an ongoing problem for tennis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Chris_A said:

    Now why can't we have this woman as Health Secretary. She at least knows what she's talking about.

    The NHS can't function properly unless/until patients can be safely discharged, social care needs higher priority https://t.co/8asdZ5H2bF

    — Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) January 18, 2016

    That's more than you do. Have you bothered to check the maximum working hours I mentioned yesterday?
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    kle4 said:

    Has Corbyn done James Bond yet?

    Ed Miliband managed to call for Jane Bond.

    Just wondering how Corbyn is going to top that.

    Jihadi Bond, obviously. Duh.
    0072
    The films wouldn't last very long as he would blow himself up during the opening sequence,
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,108

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Tracey Ullman show on tonight, BBC1, 10:45. Here she is in 1983 with her pop hit "They Don't Know":

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9un119lq4c

    Watched it last week, she does a very good Merkel.
    I appreciate the following statement is politnerd even by the standards of PB, but I think Kate McKinnon does Merkel better: see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5zed9WRyfY

    Although I will miss Jason Sudekis doing Joe Biden...:-( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5rphhgzXaM . You will never think of Scranton in the same way...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    It's a lovely language to speak. Wonderful words like prestidigitateur and fauteuil.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739
    Bloody hell. This year is just getting worse and worse. Now Glenn Frey of the Eagles has died. Only saw them a year or so ago. Absolutely brilliant.

    RIP and thanks for some of the best rock songs ever written.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Tim_B said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    It's a lovely language to speak. Wonderful words like prestidigitateur and fauteuil.
    wiping your arse with silk.

    REminds me of that old joke: how do you make a woman scream in the bedroom? Wipe your dick on the curtains.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Good for Cameron. It's high time these sensitive issues were delicately tackled.'

    But you don't think he will actually do anything, do you? This master of inaction has given us similar stern lectures on FGM as well and nothing has happened.

    And of course, on Europe....
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    edited 2016 18

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Now why can't we have this woman as Health Secretary. She at least knows what she's talking about.

    The NHS can't function properly unless/until patients can be safely discharged, social care needs higher priority https://t.co/8asdZ5H2bF

    — Sarah Wollaston MP (@sarahwollaston) January 18, 2016
    Yes she does

    A leading Tory MP has branded planned strike action by junior doctors “appalling” and “highly unsafe” and warned it could harm patients.

    Sarah Wollaston, a former GP who chairs the Commons Health Select Committee, said the proposed walk out was “extreme” and called the move an “extraordinary step".

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11993121/Junior-doctor-strike-appalling-and-highly-unsafe-says-leading-Tory-MP.html
    But remind me what has Osborne promised on social care?
    I thought we were discussing the woman you wanted as Health Secretary just last week saying the strike will "solve nothing; just harm patients and undermine public trust. Doctors shouldn't walk out on their patients"

    We wouldn't be having any strikes if Dr Woolaston was Health Secretary.
    ....
    Wishful thinking, Mr. A.. If La Woolaston was health secretary then she would be under the same pressures as the present incumbent. What could she do that the present chap can not? You hated Lansley, you now hate Hunt, you would hate Woolastan or, for that matter anyone who has to run the NHS without an unlimited budget.

    I think it might be an improvement to have someone who understands basic statistics and knows a bit of science in charge rather than parroting what his spin doctors tell him. Hunt is just making himself a laughing stock spouting his dubious inferences as if they were holy writ. She has already identified a major problem - far, far more important than junior doctors' contracts - and that is the inability to have any beds for sick patients to move into.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Bloody hell. This year is just getting worse and worse. Now Glenn Frey of the Eagles has died. Only saw them a year or so ago. Absolutely brilliant.

    RIP and thanks for some of the best rock songs ever written.

    Always loved the Eagles. Big loss. I will watch one of their dvds this evening.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited 2016 18

    Tim_B said:

    I'm not a tennis follower, but the current tennis match fixing scandal has reached me.

    ESPN's Outside The Lines today was devoted to it, and they re-ran their report from February 2008 about it, heavily featuring Betfair.

    The betting outfits apparently jointly maintain a list of tennis matches featuring unusual betting patterns or results, currently (as of 2008) over 150 matches, including Wimbledon.

    Is this the same story coming up over and over again, pretty much? The Telegraph sports section ran this as their front page story in 2003ish.
    A while back - I reckon summer of 2010 - I overheard a fellow passenger on a train yacking down the phone (Essex chap, suit, no tie, not the rush hour). He repeatedly had to say words to the effect of "I can't talk openly right now" which could only arouse my suspicion... it was explicitly clear from what he said that the phone call was to check that arrangements were in place for a string of betting accounts being organised in other people's names, confirming that the people signing up for the accounts were clear on the arrangements of how the financing of their cut would work, that they were ready to take their instructions.

    What was less clear was the exact purpose of the arrangement - whether it was a professional gambler trying to get around restrictions on his betting accounts, or someone planning a heist in the manner of Barney Curley", or an outright fix. I also don't know whether the guy I overheard was just a runner for the affair or somebody right at the heart of it.

    From the wording used, it didn't seem to be a horse race that was under discussion, and probably not a team sport - some kind of one-on-one match. I was left with the distinct impression it was about tennis, but don't think the word "tennis" was ever spoken.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,108

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    You're not the first person to think that...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    You're not the first person to think that...
    The only decent thing from the final two Matrix movies.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    I'm not a tennis follower, but the current tennis match fixing scandal has reached me.

    ESPN's Outside The Lines today was devoted to it, and they re-ran their report from February 2008 about it, heavily featuring Betfair.

    The betting outfits apparently jointly maintain a list of tennis matches featuring unusual betting patterns or results, currently (as of 2008) over 150 matches, including Wimbledon.

    Is this the same story coming up over and over again, pretty much? The Telegraph sports section ran this as their front page story in 2003ish.
    According to ESPN, this was first noticed in 2002. Today's OTL says that 16 of the current top 50 are involved, and 8 of them are playing in the Australian Open. No names were given.

    This is apparently an ongoing problem for tennis.
    2002 checks out. At the time I knew the guy who broke the story in the Telegraph, just struggling to place the year.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Tim_B said:

    I'm not a tennis follower, but the current tennis match fixing scandal has reached me.

    ESPN's Outside The Lines today was devoted to it, and they re-ran their report from February 2008 about it, heavily featuring Betfair.

    The betting outfits apparently jointly maintain a list of tennis matches featuring unusual betting patterns or results, currently (as of 2008) over 150 matches, including Wimbledon.

    Is this the same story coming up over and over again, pretty much? The Telegraph sports section ran this as their front page story in 2003ish.
    A while back - I reckon summer of 2010 - I overheard a fellow passenger on a train yacking down the phone (Essex chap, suit, no tie, not the rush hour). He repeatedly had to say words to the effect of "I can't talk openly right now" which could only arouse my suspicion... it was explicitly clear from what he said that the phone call was to check that arrangements were in place for a string of betting accounts being organised in other people's names, confirming that the people signing up for the accounts were clear on the arrangements of how the financing of their cut would work, that they were ready to take their instructions.

    What was less clear was the exact purpose of the arrangement - whether it was a professional gambler trying to get around restrictions on his betting accounts, or someone planning a heist in the manner of Barney Curley", or an outright fix. I also don't know whether the guy I overheard was just a runner for the affair or somebody right at the heart of it.

    From the wording used, it didn't seem to be a horse race that was under discussion, and probably not a team sport - some kind of one-on-one match. I was left with the distinct impression it was about tennis, but don't think the word "tennis" was ever spoken.
    It is totally normal for professional gamblers to have many accounts, especially given how aggressively many bookmakers are now at closing accounts.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    edited 2016 18

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    I try and avoid swearing in English. As a young child I once swore (I didn't know it was a swear word) and my mother got very cross with me, so I learned other languages to swear in.

    Plus I'm a show off cum poser who likes to let people know he can speak many languages.

    That said my French has deteriorated in recent years, and I now sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,108

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    You're not the first person to think that...
    The only decent thing from the final two Matrix movies.
    Matrix II & III are about 60 minutes of great action wrapped in about 120 minutes of bad dialogue. The Wachowskis are great at action but their plots are pretentious and their dialogue is *really* bad. Get them a good writer and a hardbastard producer and she'll be apples, but until then it's the George Lucas/Steven Moffatt problem: how do you tell the guy in charge that that's actually a really dumb idea...:-(
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited 2016 18


    It is totally normal for professional gamblers to have many accounts, especially given how aggressively many bookmakers are now at closing accounts.

    Yes, I have certainly heard stories of professional gamblers making accounts in false names (is this realistic? I'd be astonished if this wasn't something that the bookies got wind of pretty quickly, and seems to bring in unnecessary exposure to legal risk) but what struck me is this guy was talking about a network of accounts run by other people for his(?) benefit. Aside from issues with synchronisation (timing issues would surely prevent arbing for instance), I'd have thought that giving them all a cut would severely dent (I'd imagine, under normal circumstances, completely reverse?) any edge he felt over the bookies. Which made me wonder just how big an edge he expected to have, and why...

    I understand you're a professional gambler yourself so if you could fill in any of the gaps in my understanding I'd be most grateful.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    Bloody hell. This year is just getting worse and worse. Now Glenn Frey of the Eagles has died. Only saw them a year or so ago. Absolutely brilliant.

    RIP and thanks for some of the best rock songs ever written.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teljgwFfl94
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Already Gone.

    Bloody hell. This year is just getting worse and worse. Now Glenn Frey of the Eagles has died. Only saw them a year or so ago. Absolutely brilliant.

    RIP and thanks for some of the best rock songs ever written.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teljgwFfl94
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    I try and avoid swearing in English. As a young child I once swore (I didn't know it was a swear word) and my mother got very cross with me, so I learned other languages to swear in.

    Plus I'm a show off cum poser who likes to let people know he can speak many languages.

    That said my French has deteriorated in recent years, and I now sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo
    The Scramming Ogles?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    ...

    That said my French has deteriorated in recent years, and I now sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo
    You should get together with yong Sunil; Crabtree level French is, seemingly, his forte.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    ...

    That said my French has deteriorated in recent years, and I now sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo
    You should get together with yong Sunil; Crabtree level French is, seemingly, his forte.
    Horst Lleema
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Just regarding France, it is worth remembering that it is the last great unreformed economy in Europe.

    Take Spain: dramatic cuts to government spending, liberalisation of the labour market. Ditto Portugal. Ditto (to a lesser extent) Italy.

    If you go back a decade, and you look at ILO measures of labour market flexibility, you'd see "Club Med" (Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Portugal) all scoring among the lowest levels in Europe (or, indeed, the world). Look at the now, and Spain, and Portugal are now near the top of the table. Italy and Greece have both improved. And France is the lone laggard. (All of Club Med, except France, now run current account surpluses.)

    If you look at government spending (pre interest expense) as a percentage of GDP, you'll see that most of Club Med has moved from 55% to the mid 40s. Still too high, but massively improved.

    Except France. 55% of GDP is government spending pre interest expense.

    France is truly the sick man of the Eurozone. Too scared to reform.

    I know everyone likes to forecast disasters in Greece and Portugal and Italy. But those countries have - by and large - taken their medicine. They've cut government spending and liberalised (to varying degrees) labour markets. Spain and Italy have the two highest manufacturing PMIs in the world. If the Eurozone is to run aground in 2016, it will be in France.

    And it makes you realise what a disaster Sarkozy was. He was in power for five years, and had an opportunity to change France and he bottled it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 18


    It is totally normal for professional gamblers to have many accounts, especially given how aggressively many bookmakers are now at closing accounts.

    Yes, I have certainly heard stories of professional gamblers making accounts in false names (is this realistic? I'd be astonished if this wasn't something that the bookies got wind of pretty quickly, and seems to bring in unnecessary exposure to legal risk) but what struck me is this guy was talking about a network of accounts run by other people for his(?) benefit. Aside from issues with synchronisation (timing issues would surely prevent arbing for instance), I'd have thought that giving them all a cut would severely dent (I'd imagine, under normal circumstances, completely reverse?) any edge he felt over the bookies. Which made me wonder just how big an edge he expected to have, and why...

    I understand you're a professional gambler yourself so if you could fill in any of the gaps in my understanding I'd be most grateful.
    Look up Billy Walters or Bob Voulgaris and it will give some insight into how and why the big boys have networks of runners...it is combination of having active accounts, not tipping off everybody and causing lines to move, etc etc etc. Walters not only has a network of people betting for him, he has people deliberating betting what he thinks is the losing side to shift the market. As for synchronisation, wonders of the internet / cell phones certainly makes that easier than it used to be.

    http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12280555/how-billy-walters-became-sports-most-successful-controversial-bettor

    You have to realise these guys are running what is more akin to a trading operation. They employ quants, they employ runners, they have people "insider" trading by buttering up their contacts with the teams.

    It it also a big issue in online poker, with people "multi-accounting", by buying up other players accounts and using them. The difference there is the edge isn't over the "house", it is over other players.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    ...

    That said my French has deteriorated in recent years, and I now sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo
    You should get together with yong Sunil; Crabtree level French is, seemingly, his forte.
    Horst Lleema
    :D
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    show off cum poser

    Oo-er Missus!!

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    22% of UK households aged 55-64 are millionaires. Lots of wealth inequality is just a life cycle effect. https://t.co/nYrz5yuzrv
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,108

    22% of UK households aged 55-64 are millionaires. Lots of wealth inequality is just a life cycle effect. https://t.co/nYrz5yuzrv

    Conversely, poor people die earlier...

    (you need to look at the whole cohort)
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited 2016 18

    22% of UK households aged 55-64 are millionaires. Lots of wealth inequality is just a life cycle effect. https://t.co/nYrz5yuzrv

    Amen.

    There's also a north-south property price effect, of course.

    But it irks me no end when people ignore the life cycle aspect of inequality ... that doesn't even strike me as a particularly undesirable form of inequality, and even if you thought it was a "problem" for some reason, it would be very difficult to "solve".
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 18
    Of course one of the charms of places like France and Italy is precisely the fact that their economies haven't been subject to stringent Anglo-Saxon economic remedies. They wouldn't be quite the same places if and when they are.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    By the way Trump lovers: he's planning on forcing Apple to manufacture everything in the United States.

    Amusingly, I have a Donald Trump suit. (I actually got married in it :lol:.) It was made in China. Shall I tweet the irony of this?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    22% of UK households aged 55-64 are millionaires. Lots of wealth inequality is just a life cycle effect. https://t.co/nYrz5yuzrv

    Amen.

    There's also a north-south property price effect, of course.

    But it irks me no end when people ignore the life cycle aspect of inequality ... that doesn't even strike me as a particularly undesirable form of inequality, and even if you thought it was a "problem" for some reason, it would be very difficult to "solve".
    I bought a house in a village near Harrogate for 150,000 pounds. 7 years later I sold it for 390,000 pounds. The UK housing market is a mess.

    The profit from the sale meant we could buy a 4 bedroom and a 5 bedroom house in Atlanta for cash and still have quite a tidy sum left over.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651


    It is totally normal for professional gamblers to have many accounts, especially given how aggressively many bookmakers are now at closing accounts.

    Yes, I have certainly heard stories of professional gamblers making accounts in false names (is this realistic? I'd be astonished if this wasn't something that the bookies got wind of pretty quickly, and seems to bring in unnecessary exposure to legal risk) but what struck me is this guy was talking about a network of accounts run by other people for his(?) benefit. Aside from issues with synchronisation (timing issues would surely prevent arbing for instance), I'd have thought that giving them all a cut would severely dent (I'd imagine, under normal circumstances, completely reverse?) any edge he felt over the bookies. Which made me wonder just how big an edge he expected to have, and why...

    I understand you're a professional gambler yourself so if you could fill in any of the gaps in my understanding I'd be most grateful.
    Look up Billy Walters or Bob Voulgaris and it will give some insight into how and why the big boys have networks of runners...it is combination of having active accounts, not tipping off everybody and causing lines to move, etc etc etc. Walters not only has a network of people betting for him, he has people deliberating betting what he thinks is the losing side to shift the market. As for synchronisation, wonders of the internet / cell phones certainly makes that easier than it used to be.

    http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12280555/how-billy-walters-became-sports-most-successful-controversial-bettor

    You have to realise these guys are running what is more akin to a trading operation. They employ quants, they employ runners, they have people "insider" trading by buttering up their contacts with the teams.

    It it also a big issue in online poker, with people "multi-accounting", by buying up other players accounts and using them. The difference there is the edge isn't over the "house", it is over other players.
    Thanks for that. I'll have a good read.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    rcs1000 said:


    And it makes you realise what a disaster Sarkozy was. He was in power for five years, and had an opportunity to change France and he bottled it.

    Perhaps he'll make up for it in his second term.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/ten-theses-on-immigration/?_r=0

    An interesting US conservative take on Europe's (and America's) immigration issues. Worth a read.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited 2016 19
    Useless facts: "They Don't Know" was written by Kirsty MacColl in 1979, and she sang backing vocals on Tracey Ullman's version which was only blocked from the number one position in October 1983 by the 36th biggest-selling UK single of all time, Karma Chameleon by Culture Club.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIsyQ2qCDQ8
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    Actually it was "I speak Spanish to my plants, French to my cat, German to my horse, Italian to women, and gibberish to God."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/ten-theses-on-immigration/?_r=0

    An interesting US conservative take on Europe's (and America's) immigration issues. Worth a read.

    Well written, and a lot I can agree with.

    Night all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/ten-theses-on-immigration/?_r=0

    An interesting US conservative take on Europe's (and America's) immigration issues. Worth a read.

    I read that last week, and yes it was interesting.

    There's some things in there that are correct, and there are some that are wrong. For example, almost all the things it talks about - in terms of effect - are about immigration of groups of people who do not fit in with the host culture, choose not to fit in, and will never go home. In other words, it's talking about (largely Muslim) immigration from the Middle East, Africa and near Asia.

    But, of course, the vast bulk of immigration hasn't been like that, in the UK's case at least. For example. A fifth of (non British) people in the UK are either Polish or Irish. Neither of these groups is creating balkanised communities where they discourage marrying out. In fact, if my single friends are anything to go by, I very much doubt any of the Polish girls in London are dating Polish guys.

    Really, whether it's the case of Germany or the UK, the real problem with immigration is when people come to your country who have no respect for the culture or traditions, and have no desire or plans to fit in. They are the cuckoos in the nest, so to speak.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    AndyJS said:

    Useless facts: "They Don't Know" was written by Kirsty MacColl in 1979, and she sang backing vocals on Tracey Ullman's version which was only blocked from the number one position in October 1983 by the 36th biggest-selling UK single of all time, Karma Chameleon by Culture Club.

    Did you ever listen to her fabulous England 2 Colombia 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tnQSGRnJc
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way Trump lovers: he's planning on forcing Apple to manufacture everything in the United States.

    Amusingly, I have a Donald Trump suit. (I actually got married in it :lol:.) It was made in China. Shall I tweet the irony of this?

    Did you wear a Donald Trump wig by any chance...?

    :-)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883
    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    I don't know how one could read into Cameron's article that he wants to deport Muslim women.

    But, of course, the critics don't really. It's just the usual faux outrage, when someone utters a truism.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Useless facts: "They Don't Know" was written by Kirsty MacColl in 1979, and she sang backing vocals on Tracey Ullman's version which was only blocked from the number one position in October 1983 by the 36th biggest-selling UK single of all time, Karma Chameleon by Culture Club.

    Did you ever listen to her fabulous England 2 Colombia 0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5tnQSGRnJc
    No, thanks for flagging it up.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    NEW THREAD
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    rcs1000 said:


    I read that last week, and yes it was interesting.

    There's some things in there that are correct, and there are some that are wrong. For example, almost all the things it talks about - in terms of effect - are about immigration of groups of people who do not fit in with the host culture, choose not to fit in, and will never go home. In other words, it's talking about (largely Muslim) immigration from the Middle East, Africa and near Asia.

    But, of course, the vast bulk of immigration hasn't been like that, in the UK's case at least. For example. A fifth of (non British) people in the UK are either Polish or Irish. Neither of these groups is creating balkanised communities where they discourage marrying out. In fact, if my single friends are anything to go by, I very much doubt any of the Polish girls in London are dating Polish guys....

    I actually thought that this was covered fairly well by "Cultural commonalities help assimilation; cultural differences spur balkanization" (and the note on the inter-marriage rates of British people of Afro-Caribbean descent and white British people). The cultural gap with Ireland is relatively small, the gap with Poland more substantial but not a gaping chasm.

    And the observation that rates of migration are an important contributor to the need to integrate, as well as the tendency to "import" wedding partners, seemed sound. For instance, some of my Polish friends who came following EU accession have gone home now, but others stuck around and "married English". It's quite usual for urban Poles in Britain to date with English people (I'm told that in London it's also surprisingly common for them to date British Asians and black British people) but there isn't much of a "Little Warsaw" effect in London. But at accelerated rates of migration, and particularly when you reach a point where the migrant group forms a large proportion of the youth cohort, the pressure to integrate slows down a lot.

    If you look at a place like Boston, King's Lynn, Wisbech, to some extent Peterborough, where Polish and Lithuanian people have very suddenly become a large and concentrated part of the local population, and where you have factory shifts manned entirely by East Europeans in addition to East European shops and cafes, even culturally-similar groups can have an integration process that grinds to a halt. I've had several Polish people tell me that they found it very difficult to speak English when they came to England, even though gaining the skill of English proficiency was one of the drivers for them to come here - if you end up flat-sharing with other Poles, working unsociable hours (often for an agency with other Poles), your opportunities to actually get out and meet English people and talk English are quite limited. Particularly if your English is quite poor in the first place, which makes it harder to make friends.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoshDixonTweets: Charlotte is getting deported by David Cameron. https://t.co/YlRHj4b36p

    Although I think Cameron's idea isn't very well thought out, the BBC kneejerk reaction was unspoofable. They had a guy on who said he didn't see anything wrong with people not speaking English, his mum has been here 20 years and works as a dinner lady and there was no problem at all.....and the reason for not learning in 20 years, been busy....
    Is a farce.

    Learning to speak English gives you so many incalculable advantages in this country.

    I can't believe we even have to have this debate.
    English is by far the best langauge in the world!
    It is, but I do have a fondness for the French language, especially the swearing. It is like wiping your arse with silk.
    Ha! Mr. Eagles I worry about you sometimes. Charles V (Holy Roman Emperor and first king of Spain, as such) is reputed to have said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse." However, Charles was an inbred loon (look at his portrait) and was misquoted. What he actually said was, "I speak Spanish to God, English to men, Italian to women, German to my Horse and French to my cat, but I swear in English"
    Actually it was "I speak Spanish to my plants, French to my cat, German to my horse, Italian to women, and gibberish to God."
    You might be right, Mr. F, at least in your version you also have the fact that all cats naturally understand French, much as it pains me to say it. I don't know what the natural language is for dogs, I suspect it is either dutch or something vaguely germanic. Addressing God in gibberish, of course, doesn't matter - the spoken word is not important in that relationship.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    rcs1000 said:

    http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/ten-theses-on-immigration/?_r=0

    An interesting US conservative take on Europe's (and America's) immigration issues. Worth a read.

    I read that last week, and yes it was interesting.

    There's some things in there that are correct, and there are some that are wrong. For example, almost all the things it talks about - in terms of effect - are about immigration of groups of people who do not fit in with the host culture, choose not to fit in, and will never go home. In other words, it's talking about (largely Muslim) immigration from the Middle East, Africa and near Asia.

    But, of course, the vast bulk of immigration hasn't been like that, in the UK's case at least. For example. A fifth of (non British) people in the UK are either Polish or Irish. Neither of these groups is creating balkanised communities where they discourage marrying out. In fact, if my single friends are anything to go by, I very much doubt any of the Polish girls in London are dating Polish guys.

    Really, whether it's the case of Germany or the UK, the real problem with immigration is when people come to your country who have no respect for the culture or traditions, and have no desire or plans to fit in. They are the cuckoos in the nest, so to speak.
    But yes, I didn't agree with everything in there. I did think it was a well-argued piece, refreshingly free from hyperbole or hand-wringing.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    MP_SE said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Couple more summers and AfD will be the most popular party in Germany.
    Careful - that's INSA, who consistently show AfD higher than any other institute. (It's also been rounded in the tweet from 125) It might be accurate but it would be helpful to get some other polling confirmation. See here for the full range of polls:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    MP_SE said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dramatic shift from CDU to AfD in new German poll
    CDU/CSU-EPP: 33% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 23% ↑
    AfD: 13% ↑
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    https://twitter.com/afneil

    Couple more summers and AfD will be the most popular party in Germany.
    Careful - that's INSA, who consistently show AfD higher than any other institute. (It's also been rounded in the tweet from 125) It might be accurate but it would be helpful to get some other polling confirmation. See here for the full range of polls:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
    Interestingly, INSA seem to often give Linke a higher share than other pollsters.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    Scott_P said:

    Tim_B said:

    I filled up my car today for $1.55 a gallon. That's below a pound a gallon.

    In some states it's apparently down around $1 a gallon.

    That's a US gallon, not a proper Imperial one
    I always feel short changed at the pub. US pints are pathetic :p
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