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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GOP Race: It’s hard now to see beyond Trump, Cruz or Ru

SystemSystem Posts: 12,046
edited January 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GOP Race: It’s hard now to see beyond Trump, Cruz or Rubio

The screen grab at the top is from Fox News and show the line up of GOP contenders to this week’s TV debate. The ranking numbers are based on where they currently stand in the national polling.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,301
    1st like Trump?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    2nd like Ted
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    And the nice doctor man - C'mon nice black doctor man!!!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited January 2016
    First runner up Third
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JournoStephen: Ruh-roh... A fresh twist in #Tunnocksgate. https://t.co/uQWaeLX8Wx
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    First runner up Third

    try again
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    FPT:
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. 1000, is Greece back to surplus yet?

    Yes. Latest current account surpluses (as % of GDP), all September quarter:

    Germany 8.21%
    Ireland 4.49%
    Italy 2.06%
    Greece 1.51%
    Spain 1.48%
    UK -4.68%
    Adding some more countries on for fun:

    Switzerland 12.52%
    Netherlands 9.66%
    Japan 2.94%
    Portugal 0.80%
    India -1.12%
    USA -2.53%
    Canada -3.35%
    Brazil -3.91%
    China ?

    +ve means the currency is undervalued ?
    China is 2.58%

    I think it's a bit more complicated than just currency over/under valuation. Between December 2007 and now, GBPUSD has gone from 2.00 to 1.44 (a c. 30% devaluation); by contrast EURUSD has gone from 1.45 to 1.09 (a c. 30% devaluation).

    You would think they would spur roughly the same change in export volumes, but instead you've see only a modest pick up in the UK (8%), compared to about 17% for the Eurozone as a whole and a staggering 48% for Spain.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    It all depends on whether the GOP wants to win the presidential election. If it does, it will select Rubio or Cruz (or possibly Bush, or Christie, or Whoever). If it doesn't, it will select Trump. Or, to put it the other way round, if it selects Trump, it will lose. If it does not select Trump, it may have a chance of winning.

    Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Isn’t seven candidates still in the race at this late stage rather odd - or do they keep going until the campaign funding runs dry?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JohnLoony said:

    It all depends on whether the GOP wants to win the presidential election. If it does, it will select Rubio or Cruz (or possibly Bush, or Christie, or Whoever). If it doesn't, it will select Trump. Or, to put it the other way round, if it selects Trump, it will lose. If it does not select Trump, it may have a chance of winning.

    Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist.

    Trump = the Corbyn outcome.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm in denial. :neutral:

    First runner up Third

    try again
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist. ''

    If I had a quid for every time I've read this. It really is starting to look like conventional wisdom.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The parliamentary Labour party will amend its standing orders to strip a Corbyn ally of his place on the party's ruling National Executive Committee.
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2016/01/labour-mps-move-reassert-their-position-partys-nec
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    FPT:
    Patrick said:

    If Italy exited the Euro tomorrow and recreated the Lira would this currency appreciate or depreciate? Where would your money go? What's their debt / GDP picture and prognosis? The Euro is politically unresolvable but economically unsustainable - bodes very ill. The garlic zone is NOT fixed. The 2016 market shock will reveal the resilience of the Euro banking system for what it is. RBS' market advice is spot on:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12093807/RBS-cries-sell-everything-as-deflationary-crisis-nears.html

    It is notable that the market's reaction to the RBS piece is to send Italian banks' share prices soaring.

    Consumer debt-to-GDP is very low across most of the Eurozone, which is why most of the "banking sector is fucked" stories have turned out to be completely wrong. There's some excellent data here: https://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/fsi/eng/fsi.htm

    Basically, if you are saying that the (say) Italian banking sector is fucked you are basically saying:

    Even though Italians owe less than a third of what Brits do, and even though their banks have already written off hundreds of billions of bad loans, and even though their banks have increased their capital bases by tens of billions... they're still fucked.

    The problem debt in Italy is the government, which has debt-to-GDP of north of 130%.

    As an aside, Italy's Manufacturing PMIs are the highest in the world right now - ahead of us, China, Germany, Korea, etc. etc etc
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    taffys said:

    ''Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist. ''

    If I had a quid for every time I've read this. It really is starting to look like conventional wisdom.

    Trump would hammer Sanders, and would be 50/50 against Hillary.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Isn’t seven candidates still in the race at this late stage rather odd - or do they keep going until the campaign funding runs dry?

    Or they get asked to be a running mate (Veep)
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TGOHF said:

    JohnLoony said:

    It all depends on whether the GOP wants to win the presidential election. If it does, it will select Rubio or Cruz (or possibly Bush, or Christie, or Whoever). If it doesn't, it will select Trump. Or, to put it the other way round, if it selects Trump, it will lose. If it does not select Trump, it may have a chance of winning.

    Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist.

    Trump = the Corbyn outcome.

    Cruz might be Corbyn. He is not Establishment. Trump is more Galloway.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Having watched a couple of the Gop debates - I've seen nothing from Cruz or Rubio that would suggest they can outdo their polling. I guess it's just the Trump slip up strategy in operation. Also, those debates clearly aren't designed for Brits so I'm not saying I can translate very well.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,453
    Off-topic:

    This sounds really cool. But so much to go wrong ...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35290384
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Cruz might be Corbyn. He is not Establishment. Trump is more Galloway.

    America is not Britain, not by a long chalk. Politicians lazily dismissed as lunatics here and eminently electable there.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Trump or Cruz v Saunders would be far more entertaining than Rubio vs Clinton.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    @Patrick

    Here's a link to the IMF site (http://data.imf.org/?sk=9F855EAE-C765-405E-9C9A-A9DC2C1FEE47) with the ratio of risk weighted assets to capital.

    Essentially, the smaller the ratio, the less levered the banks are.

    Of the 77 countries with data for end '14, Portugal is 76th, Spain is 72nd, and Italy is 66th.

    1 is worst (i.e. most levered) and 77 is best (i.e. least levered).
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    TGOHF said:

    Trump or Cruz v Saunders would be far more entertaining than Rubio vs Clinton.

    #FeelTheBern
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2016
    Three weeks before Iowa last time, Romney, Ron Paul and Newt Gringrich (remember him?) were leading in most Iowa polls, and Rick Santorum was one of the also-rans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_January_2012
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Blimey. And many happy returns. (I'd always vaguely assumed MW was the beneficiary of NPXMP's window-mending committee, or whatever it was.)
  • Isn’t seven candidates still in the race at this late stage rather odd - or do they keep going until the campaign funding runs dry?

    There's 12 candidates left. Fiorina, Gilmore, Huckabee, Paul, and Santorum are also still going. In the RCP average Fiorina and Paul are polling better than Kasich

    Generally, anyone who doesn't do well in either Iowa or New Hampshire drops out
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Three weeks before Iowa last time, Romney, Ron Paul and Newt Gringrich (remember him?) were leading in most Iowa polls, and Rick Santorum was one of the also-rans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_January_2012

    The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.
  • TGOHF said:

    Trump or Cruz v Saunders would be far more entertaining than Rubio vs Clinton.

    Sanders!
  • JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
  • The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.

    Yes, I think that is absolutely correct. This is not a 'normal' race, and it seems very likely that the tendency to coalesce around one or two candidates will come later this time than it usually does.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Here you go: http://www.marywilson.com/
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.

    Yes, I think that is absolutely correct. This is not a 'normal' race, and it seems very likely that the tendency to coalesce around one or two candidates will come later this time than it usually does.
    Good afternoon all. Don't make me post the xkcd cartoon again. 'Unprecedented' events are quite common.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,323
    38% turnout by junior doctors on the first day of strikes is seriously eye brow raising in light of the ballot. It greatly undermines the value of the ballot.

    That said, this is not a fight the government want to have or even win in any conventional sense. A victory that left a demoralised workforce that was looking for options elsewhere would be Pyrrhic indeed.

    I think, trying to take a step back, that the medical profession has got itself into something of a hole. They have been addicted to a long hours culture which generated high pay but also created quite an alarming turnover in staff, staff who are incredibly expensive to train. I have heard many doctors justify these long hours by the need for training and the importance of having continuity of care. Toms' excellent contributions on the last thread made reference to both.

    It is telling that the losers under the new contract are those that work the longest and most anti-social hours. I would also say from friends that Toms made an excellent point about the intensity of the work. 30 years ago friends who were doctors would sometimes work really absurd 120 hour shifts. The reality was that they spent some of the time on those shifts asleep but at the hospital and on call when required. Over time the number of times they were interrupted in their sleep increased to the point things became dangerous and really had to change.

    Medicine needs to find a way to normalise its work patterns. This may mean that doctors earn somewhat less but the present culture of absurd overtime is dangerous. The normalisation process has to be on a 7 day week basis. This makes the job less attractive, particularly to those with school age children. The stress levels referred to in the Telegraph article need to be reduced and all trusts should have a target of reducing staff turnover. We cannot afford to subsidise the training of doctors to the extent that we do and then lose 20%+ of them in a short time. Getting from where we are to where we want to be is going to be difficult but the present set up does not really work for anyone.
  • rcs1000 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Here you go: http://www.marywilson.com/
    Um, thanks, only familiar with Diana Ross :)
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.

    Yes, I think that is absolutely correct. This is not a 'normal' race, and it seems very likely that the tendency to coalesce around one or two candidates will come later this time than it usually does.
    Yes. You can't generalise from past contests such as Bush v Dole to one like this. Well, you can to *some* extent but not very far.
  • JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Wife of the only Labour leader to win a general election in the last 60 years to have won a General Election for Labour, apart from Tony Blair.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @GarethoftheVale2 – cheers for the reply, much appreciated.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I'm in denial. :neutral:

    First runner up Third

    try again
    Doesn't that make you the Liz Kendall of PB?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,102
    Hmmmm- I cannot recall one whacko being elected POTUS, or VP for that matter
    taffys said:

    Cruz might be Corbyn. He is not Establishment. Trump is more Galloway.

    America is not Britain, not by a long chalk. Politicians lazily dismissed as lunatics here and eminently electable there.

  • On topic, yeah. In 2012 it was wise to lay the loon, and it seemed like a sound strategy this time as well.

    I know American politics is slightly to the right of British politics, and what we can consider loonies in America are fairly mainstream over the pond, but Trump is a whole new level of loonbag.

    Even the likes of Dick Cheney and the Koch brothers have criticised Trump.

    When you get criticised by Dick Cheney for being too extreme, that candidate shouldn't be the favourite.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    I predict that the result of the Actual Presidential Election will be

    Hillary Clinton (Democrat) 26%
    Marco Rubio (Republican) 25%
    Donald Trump (Independent Right) 24%
    Bernie Sanders (Corbyn Party of America) 23%
    Others 1%

    The electoral college will be
    Hillary Clinton 538
    Others 0
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Profile in the Indy:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/mary-wilson-wife-of-former-prime-minister-harold-turning-100-years-old-a6803271.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    JohnLoony said:

    I predict that the result of the Actual Presidential Election will be

    Hillary Clinton (Democrat) 26%
    Marco Rubio (Republican) 25%
    Donald Trump (Independent Right) 24%
    Bernie Sanders (Corbyn Party of America) 23%
    Others 1%

    The electoral college will be
    Hillary Clinton 538
    Others 0

    I'll offer you 5-1 on that if you like :lol:
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited January 2016
    Heck with it, I'm going to do it again.

    Here
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    The new Queen Mother?
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    DavidL said:

    38% turnout by junior doctors on the first day of strikes is seriously eye brow raising in light of the ballot. It greatly undermines the value of the ballot.

    That said, this is not a fight the government want to have or even win in any conventional sense. A victory that left a demoralised workforce that was looking for options elsewhere would be Pyrrhic indeed.

    I think, trying to take a step back, that the medical profession has got itself into something of a hole. They have been addicted to a long hours culture which generated high pay but also created quite an alarming turnover in staff, staff who are incredibly expensive to train. I have heard many doctors justify these long hours by the need for training and the importance of having continuity of care. Toms' excellent contributions on the last thread made reference to both.

    It is telling that the losers under the new contract are those that work the longest and most anti-social hours. I would also say from friends that Toms made an excellent point about the intensity of the work. 30 years ago friends who were doctors would sometimes work really absurd 120 hour shifts. The reality was that they spent some of the time on those shifts asleep but at the hospital and on call when required. Over time the number of times they were interrupted in their sleep increased to the point things became dangerous and really had to change.

    Medicine needs to find a way to normalise its work patterns. This may mean that doctors earn somewhat less but the present culture of absurd overtime is dangerous. The normalisation process has to be on a 7 day week basis. This makes the job less attractive, particularly to those with school age children. The stress levels referred to in the Telegraph article need to be reduced and all trusts should have a target of reducing staff turnover. We cannot afford to subsidise the training of doctors to the extent that we do and then lose 20%+ of them in a short time. Getting from where we are to where we want to be is going to be difficult but the present set up does not really work for anyone.

    Definitely agree.
    Why was there such an overwhelming ballot in favour of strike action,but come the day 40% don't strike,I presume many of these voted for strike action to pressurise the Gov,but with no intention of actually striking.
    I hope future action is now cancelled,especially the "all out" planned in Feb,more than 50% could refuse an all out strike,essentially ending support for the action.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited January 2016
    ''When you get criticised by Dick Cheney for being too extreme, that candidate shouldn't be the favourite. ''

    Maybe, but I think that to look at the presidential election in terms of right and left is to misinterpret the issues a bit.

    To some extent this is establishment versus anti establishment. The GOP establishment arguably hate Trump far more than Clinton.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :wink:
    Charles said:

    I'm in denial. :neutral:

    First runner up Third

    try again
    Doesn't that make you the Liz Kendall of PB?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Group in the 1980s, sang a song called Danny's Prayer.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,102
    My instinct FWIW- still tells me that Christie is the outlier, and the one that comes through as the anyone but Trump choice.

    I was listening to parts of Trump's stump speech yesterday. He is just bonkers- he really doesn't say anything of any note except just nonsense and hyperbole. He is quite ridiculous. He is obviously funny, and has a UNS point of funding his own campaign- a point he hammers home to ad nauseum, but he has to fall away at some point. The Democrats would love it if he wins- all they need to do is combine ethnics with women and try and keep some of the traditional base and they will clear up the electoral college.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    It seems that many doctors are not BMA members and that the strike excluded some categories of doctor also. We need some detail on this 38%. It may turn out that amongst BMA members the strike was quite solid.
  • The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.

    Yes, I think that is absolutely correct. This is not a 'normal' race, and it seems very likely that the tendency to coalesce around one or two candidates will come later this time than it usually does.
    There's "not win NH/Iowa" and "do badly". I don't foresee Rubio winning, maybe not even second, yet he won't drop out. Bush may hang on despite terrible numbers. The field will be wider than the rule of thumb, but not much wider.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''The Democrats would love it if he wins- all they need to do is combine ethnics with women and try and keep some of the traditional base and they will clear up the electoral college. ''

    That may prove a bit more difficult than you might imagine. African American may well not turn out to vote for Clinton as heavily as they voted for Obama.

    As for women, the attacks on Billary have only just started.

    And there is some polling evidence Trump appeals to the WWC abandoned by the dems as labour has abandoned them here.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,503
    edited January 2016
    Off topic, this surely can't help the Junior Doctors?

    BMA tells striking junior doctors to defy Sandwell hospital orders to return

    Midlands hospital declares level four incident but union tells members not to return to work until situation is clarified

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/12/junior-doctors-strike-begins
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Wanderer said:

    It seems that many doctors are not BMA members and that the strike excluded some categories of doctor also. We need some detail on this 38%. It may turn out that amongst BMA members the strike was quite solid.

    Is there an alternative union? It rather puts that 99% (or whatever it was) vote in perspective if 30% of junior doctors have decided not to join the BMA (and looking at some of their leaders, you can see why).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,128
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist. ''

    If I had a quid for every time I've read this. It really is starting to look like conventional wisdom.

    Trump would hammer Sanders, and would be 50/50 against Hillary.
    Yes, I think there are a few key swing states Trump would fail to win if against Hillary because of basic demographics (why would Trump collect them where Romney and McCain failed?) but I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

    We assume that because we think he's unpalatable that Americans will think the same, whereas the evidence shows he is tapping into something quite visceral.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439

    On topic, yeah. In 2012 it was wise to lay the loon, and it seemed like a sound strategy this time as well.

    I know American politics is slightly to the right of British politics, and what we can consider loonies in America are fairly mainstream over the pond, but Trump is a whole new level of loonbag.

    Even the likes of Dick Cheney and the Koch brothers have criticised Trump.

    When you get criticised by Dick Cheney for being too extreme, that candidate shouldn't be the favourite.

    Mouseover to today's date 4 years back - Mitt Romney's position has been remarkably similiar to Donald Trump.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

    Hemrna Cain = Ben Carson, and perhaps Newt Gingrich = Ted Cruz.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,138
    rcs1000 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Here you go: http://www.marywilson.com/
    Lol - that was my first thought.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    It seems that many doctors are not BMA members and that the strike excluded some categories of doctor also. We need some detail on this 38%. It may turn out that amongst BMA members the strike was quite solid.

    Is there an alternative union? It rather puts that 99% (or whatever it was) vote in perspective if 30% of junior doctors have decided not to join the BMA (and looking at some of their leaders, you can see why).
    I don't know tbh. Possibly contract staff aren't eligible to join?
  • On topic, yeah. In 2012 it was wise to lay the loon, and it seemed like a sound strategy this time as well.

    I know American politics is slightly to the right of British politics, and what we can consider loonies in America are fairly mainstream over the pond, but Trump is a whole new level of loonbag.

    Even the likes of Dick Cheney and the Koch brothers have criticised Trump.

    When you get criticised by Dick Cheney for being too extreme, that candidate shouldn't be the favourite.

    "What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate." - D. J. Trump.
  • JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Who is Mary Wilson?
    Group in the 1980s, sang a song called Danny's Prayer.
    Nah, that was Danny Wilson who sang Mary's Prayer
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Off topic, this surely can't help the Junior Doctors?

    BMA tells striking junior doctors to defy Sandwell hospital orders to return

    Midlands hospital declares level four incident but union tells members not to return to work until situation is clarified

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/12/junior-doctors-strike-begins

    According to news reports, doctors defied the BMA and returned to work.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439

    Three weeks before Iowa last time, Romney, Ron Paul and Newt Gringrich (remember him?) were leading in most Iowa polls, and Rick Santorum was one of the also-rans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statewide_opinion_polling_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_January_2012

    The rush from some posters to declare that x cannot win if they don't win and/or finish 2nd in Iowa and/or New Hampshire is ridiculous (it's even gone as far as Hillary Clinton!) Iowa and New Hampshire have a tiny proportion of the overall delegates.

    Historical rules of thumb should only be applied in as far as the situation is analogous, and even then only tentatively. Trump & Sanders would throw precedent out of the window.
    Clinton can come back from a loss in both Iowa and New Hampshire, Rubio can't imo. As for Jeb Bush...
  • watford30 said:

    Off topic, this surely can't help the Junior Doctors?

    BMA tells striking junior doctors to defy Sandwell hospital orders to return

    Midlands hospital declares level four incident but union tells members not to return to work until situation is clarified

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/12/junior-doctors-strike-begins

    According to news reports, doctors defied the BMA and returned to work.
    Cheers.
  • I want a brokered convention.

    We've never had one in my lifetime and apparently they are fun
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Methinks the worst thing that could happen to Rubio is Cruz taking Iowa and Trump New Hampshire - if Trump takes them both, well that could sink Cruz and every favourite needs a second favourite challenger. Rubio could then take up the mantle. Cruz winning Iowa, Trump NH frames the battle as a big ol' Cruz-Trump slugfest. People in South Carolina, Florida, Nevada will be deciding who is the lesser of the two evils, and Rubio gets squeezed. Whereas there could be room for him on a stop Trump ticket if Cruz isn't in the frame.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Trump, if nominated, would be heavily defeated by either Hillary Clinton or Sanders or Whoever else, even if Hillary is bogged down in further revelations of the email or sex scandals. It would be a bit like the French people voting for a crook in order to stop a fascist. ''

    If I had a quid for every time I've read this. It really is starting to look like conventional wisdom.

    Trump would hammer Sanders, and would be 50/50 against Hillary.
    Yes, I think there are a few key swing states Trump would fail to win if against Hillary because of basic demographics (why would Trump collect them where Romney and McCain failed?) but I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

    We assume that because we think he's unpalatable that Americans will think the same, whereas the evidence shows he is tapping into something quite visceral.
    I think that Trump might indeed fail to win key swing States like Florida and Virginia, yet perform very well indeed in the Rustbelt.

    There's an assumption that the platform favoured by the Republican establishment (liberal on immigration, give big business whatever it wants) is popular. It isn't. And, it wouldn't be popular over here, either.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226

    I want a brokered convention.

    We've never had one in my lifetime and apparently they are fun

    Yes we have. Remember when Matt Santos won the Democratic nomination a few years back.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Clinton can come back from a loss in both Iowa and New Hampshire, Rubio can't imo. As for Jeb Bush...

    If we assume that Trump and Cruz do well in Iowa and/or NH and thus remain leading contenders, then at least one of Rubio, Bush, and Christie will also stay in the game and will seek to hoover up establishment support. Eventually that will get winnowed down to just one establishment figure, but maybe not yet unless one of the three clearly takes an early lead over the other two.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I want a brokered convention.

    We've never had one in my lifetime and apparently they are fun

    Are you still talking about US politics?

    Just checking.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    Pulpstar said:

    Methinks the worst thing that could happen to Rubio is Cruz taking Iowa and Trump New Hampshire - if Trump takes them both, well that could sink Cruz and every favourite needs a second favourite challenger. Rubio could then take up the mantle. Cruz winning Iowa, Trump NH frames the battle as a big ol' Cruz-Trump slugfest. People in South Carolina, Florida, Nevada will be deciding who is the lesser of the two evils, and Rubio gets squeezed. Whereas there could be room for him on a stop Trump ticket if Cruz isn't in the frame.

    Disagree. Cruz doesn't play that well outside the South and the evangelical states. And there are a lot of non-Cruz states in primaries numbers 3 through 12.
  • Always fun when a pollster calls a political obsessive

    Although Ted Cruz has insisted he will not personally attack Donald Trump as the race for the Republican nomination heats up, supporters of the Texas senator appear to be weighing how best to target Trump in Iowa, where Cruz holds a narrow lead.

    A message-testing phone call in Iowa on Monday floated seven distinct lines of attack against the national frontrunner, asking whether each one would make the listener more or less likely to support him.

    Kedron Bardwell, a political science professor at Simpson College in Iowa, received the call and recorded detailed notes, which he provided to RealClearPolitics.


    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/01/12/cruz_camp_tests_lines_of_attack_on_trump_129288.html
  • rcs1000 said:

    I want a brokered convention.

    We've never had one in my lifetime and apparently they are fun

    Yes we have. Remember when Matt Santos won the Democratic nomination a few years back.
    Silly me.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,102
    edited January 2016
    The lack of understanding for junior doctors by Tories is really quite phenomenal. Hunt just doesn't get it.
    Sarah Wollaston talks about back in the day- 90 hour shifts, sleepless weekends etc...

    It's not the long shifts, or the pay- it is the stress that we put these poor bastards under. Junior Doctors are left with out of hours clinical responsibility for 3 or 4 wards for hours at a time. And the clinical needs of patients are just so complex, and the range of treatments equally so. The amount of decisions, many critical, they have to make is staggering- something Wollaston would never have faced because medicine has incomprehensibly. And if their colleagues don't turn in- they have to double their workloads.

    One hour of this kind of pressure is too much for a young doctor, never mind shift after shift after shift of full on stress.

    For any of the cynics here- have you ever been responsible for critical care? Have you ever worn an emergency bleeper and faced life and death decisions in the middle off the night? We should lionise these young, intelligent, caring doctors for being willing to put themselves into the line of fire in this way, listen to them and make their workload manageable so they carry out their responsibilities safely.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    O/T, bumped into Junior Doctors at Hammersmith Tube giving their sob story, which I didn't accept. Apparently, it is about safety, not money!! Utter b*llocks. Interestingly, a couple of Corbynistas there started to give me a hard time. I just asked how they got a day off from their public school! Didn't like it.


    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I want a brokered convention.

    We've never had one in my lifetime and apparently they are fun

    Yes we have. Remember when Matt Santos won the Democratic nomination a few years back.
    Silly me.
    Jimmy Smits played Senator Organa in the SW prequels.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759
    Dixie said:

    O/T, bumped into Junior Doctors at Hammersmith Tube giving their sob story, which I didn't accept. Apparently, it is about safety, not money!! Utter b*llocks. Interestingly, a couple of Corbynistas there started to give me a hard time. I just asked how they got a day off from their public school! Didn't like it.


    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    IMO second preferences only matter if the margin on first preferences is 2% or less.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I'm still doggedly clinging onto Chris Christie. I'm still confident that in the next couple of weeks the Republican Establishment are going to essentially say the battle to be top-placed "moderate" in New Hampshire (between Christie, Rubio and Bush) will be a winner-takes-all battle for the Establishment's full endorsement; they will be panicking and wanting to unify the "moderate" support as much as possible immediately afterwards.

    After seeing quite a few of Rubio's interviews over the past few weeks, I've come to the conclusion that he's Not Very Good. Not particularly charismatic, very wooden and scripted when he's asked questions and, even though he's quite conservative in terms of his policy positions, his tone is nowhere near angry or passionate enough to appeal to the Republican base in their current mood. (Conversely, Trump is arguably more moderate than Rubio in policy positions, but is much better at having the furious tone of voice that Republican voters have.)
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Isn't there a known unknown: how, if at all, would Trump modify his pitch for the general election vs the primary?
  • Always fun when a pollster calls a political obsessive

    Although Ted Cruz has insisted he will not personally attack Donald Trump as the race for the Republican nomination heats up, supporters of the Texas senator appear to be weighing how best to target Trump in Iowa, where Cruz holds a narrow lead.

    A message-testing phone call in Iowa on Monday floated seven distinct lines of attack against the national frontrunner, asking whether each one would make the listener more or less likely to support him.

    Kedron Bardwell, a political science professor at Simpson College in Iowa, received the call and recorded detailed notes, which he provided to RealClearPolitics.


    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/01/12/cruz_camp_tests_lines_of_attack_on_trump_129288.html

    "I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I've been challenged by so many people, and I don't frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either." - Donald J. Trump.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''There's an assumption that the platform favoured by the Republican establishment (liberal on immigration, give big business whatever it wants) is popular. It isn't. And, it wouldn't be popular over here, either.''

    100% agree.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Danny565 said:

    I'm still doggedly clinging onto Chris Christie. I'm still confident that in the next couple of weeks the Republican Establishment are going to essentially say the battle to be top-placed "moderate" in New Hampshire (between Christie, Rubio and Bush) will be a winner-takes-all battle for the Establishment's full endorsement; they will be panicking and wanting to unify the "moderate" support as much as possible immediately afterwards.

    After seeing quite a few of Rubio's interviews over the past few weeks, I've come to the conclusion that he's Not Very Good. Not particularly charismatic, very wooden and scripted when he's asked questions and, even though he's quite conservative in terms of his policy positions, his tone is nowhere near angry or passionate enough to appeal to the Republican base in their current mood. (Conversely, Trump is arguably more moderate than Rubio in policy positions, but is much better at having the furious tone of voice that Republican voters have.)

    Rubio looks like the Andy Burnham of the raace to me.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Yes well my caveat is clear and I have no bankroll - I splurged the last of it on that nice doctor man
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,226
    From the FT:

    Russia is slashing budget expenditure by 10 per cent as it scrambles to cope with lower revenues following the latest drastic drop in oil prices.

    Ministries and other government departments have until this Friday to come up with plans for cuts that must add up to a total of Rbs700bn ($9.2bn), according to three cabinet officials, writes Kathrin Hille in Moscow.

    The amendments mark the second straight year sliding crude prices force Russia to redo its budget, underscoring the country’s continued dependency on commodity exports to keep its economy going.

    The government decided on the 10 per cent cuts at a meeting called by prime minister Dmitry Medvedev at the end of last month when Brent crude sold for $37 a barrel. Since then, prices have fallen to $32.05 on Tuesday, with a drop to $30 or lower seen as increasingly likely.


    That's real austerity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    JBriskin said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Yes well my caveat is clear and I have no bankroll - I splurged the last of it on that nice doctor man
    Ben Carson ?

    Oh dear !
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Yes well my caveat is clear and I have no bankroll - I splurged the last of it on that nice doctor man
    Ben Carson ?

    Oh dear !
    C'mon Nice Black Doctor Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    tyson said:

    The lack of understanding for junior doctors by Tories is really quite phenomenal. Hunt just doesn't get it.
    Sarah Wollaston talks about back in the day- 90 hour shifts, sleepless weekends etc...

    It's not the long shifts, or the pay- it is the stress that we put these poor bastards under. Junior Doctors are left with out of hours clinical responsibility for 3 or 4 wards for hours at a time. And the clinical needs of patients are just so complex, and the range of treatments equally so. The amount of decisions, many critical, they have to make is staggering- something Wollaston would never have faced because medicine has incomprehensibly. And if their colleagues don't turn in- they have to double their workloads.

    One hour of this kind of pressure is too much for a young doctor, never mind shift after shift after shift of full on stress.

    For any of the cynics here- have you ever been responsible for critical care? Have you ever worn an emergency bleeper and faced life and death decisions in the middle off the night? We should lionise these young, intelligent, caring doctors for being willing to put themselves into the line of fire in this way, listen to them and make their workload manageable so they carry out their responsibilities safely.

    Another load of sanctimonious guff. You make it sound as if they're forced into medicine at gunpoint, rather than choose to enter such a rewarding career voluntarily.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    watford30 said:

    tyson said:

    The lack of understanding for junior doctors by Tories is really quite phenomenal. Hunt just doesn't get it.
    Sarah Wollaston talks about back in the day- 90 hour shifts, sleepless weekends etc...

    It's not the long shifts, or the pay- it is the stress that we put these poor bastards under. Junior Doctors are left with out of hours clinical responsibility for 3 or 4 wards for hours at a time. And the clinical needs of patients are just so complex, and the range of treatments equally so. The amount of decisions, many critical, they have to make is staggering- something Wollaston would never have faced because medicine has incomprehensibly. And if their colleagues don't turn in- they have to double their workloads.

    One hour of this kind of pressure is too much for a young doctor, never mind shift after shift after shift of full on stress.

    For any of the cynics here- have you ever been responsible for critical care? Have you ever worn an emergency bleeper and faced life and death decisions in the middle off the night? We should lionise these young, intelligent, caring doctors for being willing to put themselves into the line of fire in this way, listen to them and make their workload manageable so they carry out their responsibilities safely.

    Boo Hoo. You make it sound as if they're forced to into medicine as a career.
    Totally agree. It's what I told them today. If you want to earn a lot more than average wages you have to put in extra effort.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465

    JohnLoony said:

    Why isn't there a thread for Mary Wilson's 100th birthday?

    Blimey. And many happy returns. (I'd always vaguely assumed MW was the beneficiary of NPXMP's window-mending committee, or whatever it was.)
    No - an earlier widow, now no doubt long gone, but I'm probably still bound by confidentiality.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Khan is favourite because he has more money bet on him - all of which will be lost unless traded.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Khan is favourite because he has more money bet on him - all of which will be lost unless traded.
    I'm not sure it works like that - anyway as long as Pulpstar stays away he's in mega profit
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin said:

    Dixie said:



    Also, O/T, the only worthwhile betting on Mayoral race will be for 3rd place. Galloway, Libs, UKIP all evenly matched. Is there a market for this?

    Also, O/T, 2nd preferences making it very hard to determine winner in main event too.

    Just checked - not on Betfair - but those who agree with NPXMP that it's a 'toss up' should in theory being backing Zac at currently 2.42

    It's not a toss up, Khan should be favourite.
    Khan is favourite and there is no value there. Because the 2nd preferences, Zac has a chance. And Galloway may screw it up for Khan. And, if you talk to Labour members around London they claim not to be canvassing much for Assembly, Mayor etc. You never see photos of Khan and loads of helpers. That's coz Labour don't like him. Divisive C*** one said to me.

    It's not over by a long chalk.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    taffys said:

    ''When you get criticised by Dick Cheney for being too extreme, that candidate shouldn't be the favourite. ''

    Maybe, but I think that to look at the presidential election in terms of right and left is to misinterpret the issues a bit.

    To some extent this is establishment versus anti establishment. The GOP establishment arguably hate Trump far more than Clinton.

    I think that's right. Cruz would be right-wing. Trump, who knows - America would just be rolling the dice.

    If Sanders wins, we'll need to have Corbyn as PM to save the Special Relationship. :-)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Whats needed are a decent run of tube strikes to get Zac some better polling.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,301
    edited January 2016
    O/T, new Oxford University VC uses her installation address to champion freedom of speech on campus.

    Finally!!!!! Maybe this stupid idea of "safe spaces" will start to go away.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/12094277/Cecil-Rhodes-Oxford-University-students-must-confront-views-they-find-objectionable-says-new-head.html

    "How do we ensure that they appreciate the value of engaging with ideas they find objectionable, trying through reason to change another’s mind, while always being open to changing their own? How do we ensure that our students understand the true nature of freedom of inquiry and expression?
    ...
    "If we can provide leaders for tomorrow who have been educated to think critically, to act ethically and always to question, these are the people who will prevent the next financial crisis; who will help us grapple with the fundamental questions prompted by the accelerating pace of technological change, as we confront profound ethical choices about the prolongation and even replication of life."


    Well done Professor Louise Richardson.
This discussion has been closed.