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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just three weeks to go and two new polls put Trump back in

SystemSystem Posts: 12,293
edited 2016 11 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Just three weeks to go and two new polls put Trump back in the lead inIowa

Three weeks on from tonight meetings will be taking place in each of the 1600+ precincts in Iowa at the start of the WH2016 nomination process. Both the Republicans and Democrats have caucuses at the same time.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    First.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    edited 2016 11
    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Sanders also making a move on Hillary in Iowa. I would say Cruz will win Iowa but Trump NH and the nomination
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    If you look at Rubio's national polling, it is failing. He is going to go into Iowa a poor third and he badly off the pace in NH. In any event, I've sold him out at 3s to leave me with:

    Bad (for my bank balance): Bush
    Par: Rubio, Christie
    Good: Trump
    Excellent: Cruz

    which I am happy with.

    Incidentally I see you can no longer get odds anything like 2.25 on Trump in NH - so I hope people followed me in :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144

    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c

    Jacob Rees Mogg or Corbyn as PM, Trump or Sanders as POTUS, Marine Le Pen President of France, what are the odds on that?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    HYUFD said:

    Sanders also making a move on Hillary in Iowa. I would say Cruz will win Iowa but Trump NH and the nomination

    I tipped Clinton at 1.6, laid quite a lot at 1.2.. laid again at 1.3... now have only a small stake to lose. I'm genuinely not sure. I feel Sanders unlikely to win on the day, but far from the comfortable lead I expected Clinton to have.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    @HYUFD - bit of an insult to include The Mogg in that list.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144

    @HYUFD - bit of an insult to include The Mogg in that list.

    He would look the most sane in that group
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144

    HYUFD said:

    Sanders also making a move on Hillary in Iowa. I would say Cruz will win Iowa but Trump NH and the nomination

    I tipped Clinton at 1.6, laid quite a lot at 1.2.. laid again at 1.3... now have only a small stake to lose. I'm genuinely not sure. I feel Sanders unlikely to win on the day, but far from the comfortable lead I expected Clinton to have.
    I think Clinton will win in the end but Sanders well worth a punt
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Looks like Trump's ads are working.
    Also Cruz's doubtful eligibility to the presidency.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,693
    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    Goldwater was second in NH though and won most primaries overall
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1964

    The Iowa Caucuses did not start until 1976
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sanders also making a move on Hillary in Iowa. I would say Cruz will win Iowa but Trump NH and the nomination

    I tipped Clinton at 1.6, laid quite a lot at 1.2.. laid again at 1.3... now have only a small stake to lose. I'm genuinely not sure. I feel Sanders unlikely to win on the day, but far from the comfortable lead I expected Clinton to have.
    I think Clinton will win in the end but Sanders well worth a punt
    True, Sanders is worth a small bet at the moment.
    If he wins Iowa and N.H. and gets close or surpasses Hillary in the national polls then yes he can do it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    I rather like Jacob Rees-Mogg. His take down of Dimbleby - and with perfect comic timing - was a delight.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sanders also making a move on Hillary in Iowa. I would say Cruz will win Iowa but Trump NH and the nomination

    I tipped Clinton at 1.6, laid quite a lot at 1.2.. laid again at 1.3... now have only a small stake to lose. I'm genuinely not sure. I feel Sanders unlikely to win on the day, but far from the comfortable lead I expected Clinton to have.
    I think Clinton will win in the end but Sanders well worth a punt
    True, Sanders is worth a small bet at the moment.
    If he wins Iowa and N.H. and gets close or surpasses Hillary in the national polls then yes he can do it.
    Yes but I still think Hillary will win Iowa
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    Goldwater was second in NH though and won most primaries overall
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1964

    The Iowa Caucuses did not start until 1976
    Looking at the map, I think Goldwater would have won Iowa in 1964 if they had the modern primary system of today.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @georgegalloway: If Sadiq Khan were to be elected he would turn on Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps decisively, with devastating consequences https://t.co/anyCzNU2GX
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Colonel Hubert Bonneau, head of the elite GIGN police..

    'Hostages are just a buffer to slow the progress of security forces. If we don't intervene as quickly as possible there will be more victims. That's the lesson to draw from the attacks of November 13, that will change our mode of intervention.

    'We need to have surgical action, as forceful as possible and as quickly as possible,' he said.

    Multiple, pan-European plots are not new and have been disrupted on several occasions, including one in late August 2010, said Yves Trotignon, a former analyst for France's DGSE intelligence service.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3393669/We-heading-European-9-11-Counter-terrorism-official-says-terror-groups-plotting-simultaneous-attacks-various-countries-year.html
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2016 11
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    TBF Clegg was generally considered to score better than that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    @MaxPB (FPT) re this: "I think Tod is mistakenly onto something. Not that he is right about criticism only coming from the group. That's just stupid. What is true is that criticism that comes from within the group should be more powerful and listened to by those in power."

    Possibly true in a theoretical sense but in the world now, where Muslim liberals are shunned and attacked and put in fear of their lives ( see Ayan Hirsi Ali) and are left wholly unsupported and ignored by the West, this is just an excuse to do nothing.

    Christianity reformed because it was attacked and criticised and critiqued by its own and by outsiders and because within it there was enough of a tradition of debate and criticism and rationality (much of it inherited from the Aristotelian Greek tradition) that it was able to deal with it (eventually and not without a lot of pain) and was not given a free pass or the temporal power to crush those criticising it.

    But that is not now true of Islam. People like Tod are not rushing to the barricades to assist Muslim liberals, many of them women. The more general reaction is the sneering condescension that passes for wit amongst certain types of Oxford dons exemplified by people like Timothy Garton Ash and Ian Buruma.

    So I feel that Tod's point is just another way of justifying doing nothing. Frankly since we have so many Muslims living in Europe and plenty more wanting to come here, we are entitled to criticise. If we don't, no-one else will.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,027
    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    It won't be Jeb. He has a big war chest but where's he going to win?

    It'll be Trump or Cruz, and probably Trump.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @georgeeaton: Labour general secretary Iain McNicol told PLP that policy-making process can't be changed until next conference.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Scott_P said:

    @georgegalloway: If Sadiq Khan were to be elected he would turn on Jeremy Corbyn, perhaps decisively, with devastating consequences https://t.co/anyCzNU2GX

    What exactly is Galloway's plan here? I mean, presumably Corbyn will be supporting Khan, he cannot say nothing and give an hidden nod to Galloway even if he wanted to, so is Galloway somehow trying to position as Labour-in-exile, hoping to sweep in and defend the king (Corbyn) from the evil advisers around him?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Savaged.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    What exactly is Galloway's plan here?

    Who knows...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    HYUFD said:

    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c

    Jacob Rees Mogg or Corbyn as PM, Trump or Sanders as POTUS, Marine Le Pen President of France, what are the odds on that?
    Quite good, I'd reckon...

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    TBF Clegg was generally considered to score better than that.
    Really?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c

    Jacob Rees Mogg or Corbyn as PM, Trump or Sanders as POTUS, Marine Le Pen President of France, what are the odds on that?
    Quite good, I'd reckon...

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    TBF Clegg was generally considered to score better than that.
    Really?
    Not that I think scoring debates is very valid, but it was a narrower loss.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    It won't be Jeb. He has a big war chest but where's he going to win?

    It'll be Trump or Cruz, and probably Trump.
    The only *theoretical* way Jeb could win, is if all the other moderate republicans quit, and he wins Florida...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
    About half that I think.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Prime Minister seems to have settled on how to secure his legacy:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-life-chances
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c

    Jacob Rees Mogg or Corbyn as PM, Trump or Sanders as POTUS, Marine Le Pen President of France, what are the odds on that?
    Quite good, I'd reckon...

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    TBF Clegg was generally considered to score better than that.
    Really?
    You would expect a former Eurocrat to be able to put forward a hugely persuasive case for remaining in the EU. He failed miserably.

    Tonight a Europhile had a go at putting forward a positive case for remaining in the EU. Again failed miserably.

    A charismatic Eurosceptic without any of the baggage Farage has would be an unstoppable force.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    Goldwater was second in NH though and won most primaries overall
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_1964

    The Iowa Caucuses did not start until 1976
    Looking at the map, I think Goldwater would have won Iowa in 1964 if they had the modern primary system of today.
    Yes he would have probably won it today
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    The Prime Minister seems to have settled on how to secure his legacy:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-life-chances

    If that is true, too late to get any credit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,144
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eureka. Decided my ideal candidate for the next Tory leader and PM.

    The Mogg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoTSo1uB22c

    Jacob Rees Mogg or Corbyn as PM, Trump or Sanders as POTUS, Marine Le Pen President of France, what are the odds on that?
    Quite good, I'd reckon...

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    TBF Clegg was generally considered to score better than that.
    Really?
    Yes, will be a fascinating few years
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,693
    edited 2016 11

    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    It won't be Jeb. He has a big war chest but where's he going to win?

    It'll be Trump or Cruz, and probably Trump.
    It will be Jeb! if Rubio can't win Nevada from Trump with maybe 0.2 probability
    I think it will probably be Trump too
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    edited 2016 11
    Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit

    http://on.ft.com/1OXSsKu
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit

    http://on.ft.com/1OXSsKu

    Of course it will. The notion of companies leaving the UK didn't materialise when we stayed out of the Euro and it won't with the EU either.

    And I say that as someone 90% likely to vote Stay.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. Though it would be interesting how it goes in a long campaign.

    The Sun's smear campaign has not got off to a very good start:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/buying-waitrose-toilet-paper-because-yolo#.reVGo2NRZ6

  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. The idiot Hunt is on a loser - the public have seen through his charade of getting more work out of the junior doctors but not employing or paying for any more of them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    What exactly is Galloway's plan here?

    Who knows...
    Putting himself at the centre of attention?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit

    http://on.ft.com/1OXSsKu

    Of course it will. The notion of companies leaving the UK didn't materialise when we stayed out of the Euro and it won't with the EU either.

    And I say that as someone 90% likely to vote Stay.
    Hard to dismantle a factory and move it :-)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
    About half that I think.
    Latest poll puts them on 16%.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    EPG said:

    The last Republican to win the nomination without Iowa or New Hampshire was Barry Goldwater back when most states did not have primaries. So either it will be Trump v Cruz or Trump v AN Other who finishes second in New Hampshire (which may even be Jeb!).

    It won't be Jeb. He has a big war chest but where's he going to win?

    It'll be Trump or Cruz, and probably Trump.
    The only *theoretical* way Jeb could win, is if all the other moderate republicans quit, and he wins Florida...
    I just can't see how it could possibly be Bush. Rubio would need to be taken out, first, then the other moderates quickly. I'd say more 40/1 than the 9/1 he is currently.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited 2016 11
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
    About half that I think.
    Latest poll puts them on 16%.
    Not to mention that fact that we haven't had any polling since the reshuffle chaos.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2016 11
    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit'

    Interesting, as Toyota back in 2000 threatened to quit the UK if we stayed out of the euro. There was also more than a hint that the origin of their threat was Blair's sofa rather than their own boardroom.

    So either they haven't got the memo yet or they have decided doing the dirty work of dishonest politicians isn't actually good business.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    SNP v BBC covered in The Telegraph.

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/686673813942177792

    Gnats won't like that front page.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service. There will be plenty though just hoping they can pin a death on the strike. And yes patients will die tomorrow, just like any normal day.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
    With little to hit on the Tories. Plaid and Labour are going to get hit hard by UKIP. I just hope UKIP don't stuff the WELSH assembly full of failed English candidates. That would be the quickest way to irrelevancy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    Oops - I may have accidentally helped to break a polling embargo
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service

    Can we just sack all the junior doctors then?
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,550
    Pulpstar said:
    Better start stockpiling foreign doctors.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

    It was commissioned by the Health Service Journal. The HSJ is a journal for Health Service managers, and is focussed on management rather than clinical issues.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    runnymede said:

    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service

    Can we just sack all the junior doctors then?

    If you don't want elective surgery, outpatient appointments then sure.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 11
    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Pulpstar said:
    Better start stockpiling foreign doctors.
    No need to worry in Scotland or Wales. Hunt's contract does not apply there so the old terms apply. It should remedy some shortages there. Yhe foreign Docs in Scotland and Wales will be English.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    My irony meter just died

    Nigel Farage Condemns 'Unpleasant Nationalist Tone' To Welsh Politics While Defending 'English' Ukip

    http://huff.to/1N3CmHw
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Chris_A said:

    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service. There will be plenty though just hoping they can pin a death on the strike. And yes patients will die tomorrow, just like any normal day.
    If the doctors are on strike how can there be the same level of service?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    When the other members of Depeche Mode talent-spotted their soon-to-be frontman, Dave Gahan, back in 1980, he was singing along to "Heroes" by David Bowie.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    @JaszVegas:

    1) Go to @DavidBowieReal's account.
    2) Click 'following'.
    3) Look at who he followed last.
    4) Laugh and cry.
    #DavidBowieRIP
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,751
    edited 2016 11
    Trump into 3.6/3.65 on Betfair.

    Y'all best start believing in the Donald.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service. There will be plenty though just hoping they can pin a death on the strike. And yes patients will die tomorrow, just like any normal day.
    If the doctors are on strike how can there be the same level of service?
    There will be no outpatients or elective surgery. Those patients are not in hospital.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump into 3.6/3.65 on Betfair.

    Y'all best start believing in the Donald.

    Never.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    That poll about the Junior Doctors.. Who commissioned it, What questions were asked..

    Try prefacing the poll that tells an interviewee that they might have to wait hours or even days to be seen and attended to because the Junior Doctors are on strike..

    Voters will support the JD's until it affects them personally. Any poll is therefore complete horseshit...

    Rubbish - anyone in hospital tomorrow will get the same level of service. There will be plenty though just hoping they can pin a death on the strike. And yes patients will die tomorrow, just like any normal day.
    If the doctors are on strike how can there be the same level of service?
    There will be no outpatients or elective surgery. Those patients are not in hospital.
    So there will be a reduced level of service then.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
    So if doctors see something dangerous being planned in their hospital -they should keep quiet about it then?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    Re the Junior Doctors strike Governments making decisions that are not popular is about governing. The problem for the doctors is that any politicisation of the strike on picket lines and in the media will be self defeating and further strikes including emergency cover, with the press seeking to tie any deaths into the striking doctors, will see them lose the support of the public
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    My irony meter just died

    Nigel Farage Condemns 'Unpleasant Nationalist Tone' To Welsh Politics While Defending 'English' Ukip

    http://huff.to/1N3CmHw

    I thought you were "English"!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Well, the Shadow Chancellor may have been late for the PLP meeting but he does have time for the important matters - http://hurryupharry.org/2016/01/11/john-jihad-mcdonnell/.

    Re London and the Tube strikes: Boris is interviewed and Khan but Goldsmith is nowhere.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    My irony meter just died

    Nigel Farage Condemns 'Unpleasant Nationalist Tone' To Welsh Politics While Defending 'English' Ukip

    http://huff.to/1N3CmHw

    I thought you were "English"!
    I'm an English patriot, not an English nationalist.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 11
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
    So if doctors see something dangerous being planned in their hospital -they should keep quiet about it then?
    Something dangerous to patient safety like a strike?

    Hopefully as a result of strike action, a spotlight will be shone onto the practice of training at the taxpayers expense and then moving overseas for more lucrative posts. Those who do so within a certain time frame should be surcharged.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    The Prime Minister seems to have settled on how to secure his legacy:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-life-chances

    Speaking as a "right-wing" Tory, I applaud that speech.

    Focussing on improving the life chances of the poorest and most disadvantaged through Conservative values (families, savings, strong education, cutting tax and getting people into work, responsibility and no sniffyness towards character, culture and aspiration) should absolutely be a focus of this government.

    For too long the Left has painted the Tories as uncaring towards those in poverty, and tombstones of 'social justice' have been hung round our necks.

    That's not my criticism of Cameron. In fact, it's the reason why I voted for him 10 years ago.

    It's the new-Labour lite socio-cultural policies, and the dismissiveness of traditional social conservatives (much of whom would agree with the above) that riles me.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
    So if doctors see something dangerous being planned in their hospital -they should keep quiet about it then?
    Something dangerous to patient safety like a strike?
    How about something like working an extra 20 hours a week?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Chris_A said:

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. The idiot Hunt is on a loser - the public have seen through his charade of getting more work out of the junior doctors but not employing or paying for any more of them.
    As far as I can tell, the Government have totally failed to explain their side of the argument.

    I don't think it's as anything like as one-sided to the doctors as it's made out to be, but it's jolly hard work to understand why.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    MaxPB said:

    AndyJS said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Twitter poll after @ITVWales debate finds 79% thought @Nigel_Farage won, just 21% came out for @fmwales

    Did no one learn from the Clegg/Farage debates on europe ?

    Goodnight.
    20-25% for UKIP in Wales isn't impossible IMO.
    With little to hit on the Tories. Plaid and Labour are going to get hit hard by UKIP. I just hope UKIP don't stuff the WELSH assembly full of failed English candidates. That would be the quickest way to irrelevancy.
    Mark Reckless should not stand there. If he needs the money he should go back to doing barrister or economist stuff.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451

    Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit

    http://on.ft.com/1OXSsKu

    Of course it will. The notion of companies leaving the UK didn't materialise when we stayed out of the Euro and it won't with the EU either.

    And I say that as someone 90% likely to vote Stay.
    Stay?

    How about this as a campaign song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mg7ok8dmDU
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    My irony meter just died

    Nigel Farage Condemns 'Unpleasant Nationalist Tone' To Welsh Politics While Defending 'English' Ukip

    http://huff.to/1N3CmHw

    I thought you were "English"!
    I'm an English patriot, not an English nationalist.
    LEAVERs are true patriots!

    REMAINERs are Traitor Pig-Dogs!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
    So if doctors see something dangerous being planned in their hospital -they should keep quiet about it then?
    That is a good argument and would be a better one if the NHS as a whole did not have a truly appalling record on whistleblowing.

    I would say though that anyone wanting more money always manages to convince themselves that their desire for more money is absolutely essential to the provision of a good service to their customers, patients, clients, passengers etc. See tube drivers, doctors, lawyers etc etc.

    Still, let's hope this gets resolved pdq. Patients deserve better from both doctors and government.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,751

    Chris_A said:

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. The idiot Hunt is on a loser - the public have seen through his charade of getting more work out of the junior doctors but not employing or paying for any more of them.
    As far as I can tell, the Government have totally failed to explain their side of the argument.

    I don't think it's as anything like as one-sided to the doctors as it's made out to be, but it's jolly hard work to understand why.
    So far as I can work out the Gov't is officially paying them more, and they'll get more providing they work sub 45 hours or some such. But because alot of them work very long hours, they'll actually get paid less because they've come to expect to work very long hours with alot of overtime.

    I might be wrong, but I think thats more or less it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit

    http://on.ft.com/1OXSsKu

    Of course it will. The notion of companies leaving the UK didn't materialise when we stayed out of the Euro and it won't with the EU either.

    And I say that as someone 90% likely to vote Stay.
    Stay?

    How about this as a campaign song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mg7ok8dmDU
    That song is actually about suicide (the lead singer's brother had committed suicide)

    I'm sure some hyperbolic leavers will say we're committing national suicide by choosing to stay in the EU.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    edited 2016 11
    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    Perhaps you might look at this.

    http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/12December/Pages/Worryingly-high-hospital-death-rates-reported.aspx

    "Fourthly, despite being a recognised problem for many years, the mortality rates during weekends are much higher than during the week."

    http://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/hospital-weekend-death-rate-not-just-nhs-problem/5087583.fullarticle

    Transnational problem, but usual can we have more cash to study plea isn't far away.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    edited 2016 11
    On the junior doctors, my cousin voted to strike. I wouldn't call him an ideologue or anything like that. The issue, IMO, is that junior doctors leave university with around £80-90k worth of debt and now the health secretary is asking them to work for less money when they finish with uni. If fees were still £1k per year or even £3k per year we would not be having this discussion.

    If the government were to introduce bursaries for students bringing fees down by say 50% for those who pre-contract with the NHS for 5-7 years (matching the length of their degree course) I think the problem would go away by itself.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Bowie as Nikola Tesla in The Prestige (2006)

    (may need to turn up your speakers!)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF76qlwWM8s
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744

    My irony meter just died

    Nigel Farage Condemns 'Unpleasant Nationalist Tone' To Welsh Politics While Defending 'English' Ukip

    http://huff.to/1N3CmHw

    I thought you were "English"!
    I'm an English patriot, not an English nationalist.
    LEAVERs are true patriots!

    REMAINERs are Traitor Pig-Dogs!
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    @TSE - trust you to know that!

    I had it down as a harmless Christmas romance song.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    watford30 said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    You clearly believe the nonsense being spouted by the BMA, and those greedy junior doctors cock-a-hoop across the media at the prospect of striking.

    Patient safety? Bolleaux. It's all about money. £250K worth of training at the taxpayers expense, and as soon as their demands aren't met, out come the threats of hotfooting it overseas for greater rewards.
    So if doctors see something dangerous being planned in their hospital -they should keep quiet about it then?
    Something dangerous to patient safety like a strike?
    How about something like working an extra 20 hours a week?

    I thought they were already working those extra hours and in future would continue to do but not be paid as much. So not about the hours but about the money.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 11
    Pulpstar said:

    Chris_A said:

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. The idiot Hunt is on a loser - the public have seen through his charade of getting more work out of the junior doctors but not employing or paying for any more of them.
    As far as I can tell, the Government have totally failed to explain their side of the argument.

    I don't think it's as anything like as one-sided to the doctors as it's made out to be, but it's jolly hard work to understand why.
    So far as I can work out the Gov't is officially paying them more, and they'll get more providing they work sub 45 hours or some such. But because alot of them work very long hours, they'll actually get paid less because they've come to expect to work very long hours with alot of overtime.

    I might be wrong, but I think thats more or less it.
    So they don't have a problem working the extra hours, but object when someone tells them to work shorter shifts, and subsequently earn less? Where does patient safety come into that?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    As Antifrank said a while ago, a Tory Health Secretary was NEVER going to prevail over doctors in a battle for the public's trust.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    dr_spyn said:

    Chris_A said:

    dr_spyn said:

    How do the BMA propose to lower death rates at weekends?

    You do know that the most likely date to die is Wednesday, don't you? Or do you believe Hunt's lies?

    I would imagine that they would get a 7 day NHS (there already is one by the way) by employing more staff so that you can have the same level of cover throughout the weekend.
    Perhaps you might look at this.

    http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/12December/Pages/Worryingly-high-hospital-death-rates-reported.aspx

    "Fourthly, despite being a recognised problem for many years, the mortality rates during weekends are much higher than during the week."
    But it's not true, and even if it were do you think the solution is to spread the weekday workforce out more thinly to populate the weekends. No new money. No new doctors, so just how will that make things better?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,751
    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Chris_A said:

    Two-thirds of the public back Tuesday’s junior doctor strike, new polling has revealed, as walkouts involving thousands of medics commence throughout England.

    In a blow for the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, 66 per cent of people in an IPSOS Mori poll for the Health Service Journal said they support junior doctors walking out from all but emergency care.

    Support for a strike that would also affect A&E and other emergency services – as is planned for next month – is lower, with only 44 per cent backing; but this is still higher than the 39 per cent who said they opposed such action.

    http://ind.pn/1W10D8k

    Not surprised. The idiot Hunt is on a loser - the public have seen through his charade of getting more work out of the junior doctors but not employing or paying for any more of them.
    As far as I can tell, the Government have totally failed to explain their side of the argument.

    I don't think it's as anything like as one-sided to the doctors as it's made out to be, but it's jolly hard work to understand why.
    So far as I can work out the Gov't is officially paying them more, and they'll get more providing they work sub 45 hours or some such. But because alot of them work very long hours, they'll actually get paid less because they've come to expect to work very long hours with alot of overtime.

    I might be wrong, but I think thats more or less it.
    So they don't have a problem working the extra hours, but object when someone tells them to work shorter shifts, and subsequently earn less?
    Something like that. I'm with Hunt on this one, but I'm not blurting my opinion out all over Facebook !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,744
    edited 2016 11

    @TSE - trust you to know that!

    I had it down as a harmless Christmas romance song.

    I was an East 17 fan.

    The 90s was an awesome decade if you liked music by boy bands.

    My fave East 17 song

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a3ETB5QFrM
This discussion has been closed.