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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Review 2015 : Part One

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  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    AndyJS said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    About 15 years too late.
    What about those paying for other people e.g. buying children a ticket who are travelling alone? How's that going to work?
  • Options

    Moses_ said:

    RobD said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    If it's done right, it should be as simple as swiping a card. I don't think the contactless thing applies here, since they will have to be paid for before hand.
    It most likely will be done using the same system as picking up pre purchase tickets from machines. You only have to enter the card you purchased it with to get the tickets.

    Just take the tickets out of the system and the same can be done on board a train with mobile hand held whatever the ticket cost. Mind you I see issues with people not carrying the correct card perhaps?
    Or people who are travelling on tickets paid for by someone else. How will it work if, for example, a parent wants to buy a ticket for their teenager who is going to visit a friend? What about children using the train to get to the their school in the town two stops up the line?

    How long will it take for the card readers at the automatic barriers to authorise the person to go through - if it is more than 2 seconds Victoria Station, for one, will come to a halt, especially during rush hour.

    Taking tickets out of the system sounds like a good idea but it really needs to be thought through.
    TFL is noticeably slower than Oyster (which reads locally) but it's only about a second. So that's maybe half a second more than the time it takes a paper ticket to go through the barrier.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    That's an open first class return ticket, the most expensive ticket.

    If I buy an advance purchase ticket, I can do it for around £150.

    If I went pleb class I could do it for around £100
    Even pleb class is still amazingly expensive by comparison.
    Indeed. I had to pay something like £120 for the privilege of going from Somerset to Middlesbrough, it brought tears to my eyes.
    You had to go to Middlesbrough?

    You were being punished, what naughty thing did you do to deserve that?

    You said "FPTP is superior to AV" didn't you?
    I would never say that.

    Actually it was on route to Redcar, which may or may not be worse.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Cyclefree said:

    AndyJS said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    About 15 years too late.
    What about those paying for other people e.g. buying children a ticket who are travelling alone? How's that going to work?
    As I said in another reply, I strongly doubt that paper will be phased out entirely.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    I take issue with Our Genial's assertion that Heathrow has been "neutralised". Quite a lot of Londoners, possibly a majority, really really WANT a new runway at Heathrow - people like me - and will be hacked off at both main candidates thereby.

    So these votes might go to the candidate seen as being less religiously anti-Heathrow. That's Khan.

    Either way, I am pretty sure Khan is going to win, unless Corbyn and Co do something brutally lunatic, interim

    Why would a new runway at Heathrow be unpopular? It will bring economic benefits, jobs and increase the airport's capacity.

    Putting the 4th and 5th runways in at Hartsfield generated little opposition as the benefits were obvious.
    It's not unpopular, except among a very vocal group of wealthy middle class people in several marginal West London seats.
    Politics trumps economics and common sense. Imagine my surprise.

    What is the reason for their objection? Given modern jet engines it could hardly be noise, as was the case in the days of KACAN.
    Pollution and noise.

    But if it wasn't that, it would be something else. Basically they live in a very nice part of the country and they want to keep it that way, regardless of the cost to everyone else.
    Do you really think the infrastructure of our country will be improved by adding 50% to the numbers of people blocking the M25? An increase from 2 to 3 is an increase of 50%. It - the M25 - is intolerable now.
  • Options
    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968
  • Options
    TomTom Posts: 273
    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    I take issue with Our Genial's assertion that Heathrow has been "neutralised". Quite a lot of Londoners, possibly a majority, really really WANT a new runway at Heathrow - people like me - and will be hacked off at both main candidates thereby.

    So these votes might go to the candidate seen as being less religiously anti-Heathrow. That's Khan.

    Either way, I am pretty sure Khan is going to win, unless Corbyn and Co do something brutally lunatic, interim

    Why would a new runway at Heathrow be unpopular? It will bring economic benefits, jobs and increase the airport's capacity.

    Putting the 4th and 5th runways in at Hartsfield generated little opposition as the benefits were obvious.
    It's not unpopular, except among a very vocal group of wealthy middle class people in several marginal West London seats.
    Politics trumps economics and common sense. Imagine my surprise.

    What is the reason for their objection? Given modern jet engines it could hardly be noise, as was the case in the days of KACAN.
    Pollution and noise.

    But if it wasn't that, it would be something else. Basically they live in a very nice part of the country and they want to keep it that way, regardless of the cost to everyone else.
    Behavioural economics also suggests that people are far more likely to act if they stand to lose something than if they stand to gain - partly because perceptions of loss are immediate and more certain. So if public opinion was 50:50 or even 60:40 in favour it would be rational for a politician to oppose it. Those of us who are weakly in favour won't vote because of it, those strongly opposed will.

    There was an opportunity to de-politicise this - when labour were in government and in favour. Cameron chose to use it as a wedge issue in west london marginals in 2010 (and it also led to the idiocy of HS2 as a so-called alternative. Miliband opposed it to try to emphasise his teen credentials and corbyn opposes everything. Will be a test of the moving balance of power in Downing Street and Osborne's confidence as to whether it gets approved in June.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @camillalong: Wow, some really awful people in the New Year's Honours list. Worse than usual

    Did they elaborate?

    Crosby didn't get his royal dukedom. Disappointing. :p
    Lin Horner of HMRC has got one.

    I'm fuming at that.

    I've spent about 3 months of my life on hold to HMRC this year.

    HMRC couldn't organise a pregnancy on a council estate.
    Not even in Borehamwood?
    We used to have a house in Borehamwood. Amazing how run down our former hang outs have become. Like Barn Elms... ;)
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    The US rail system is heavily subsidised ;)
    Only worked at UC Boulder for three months, but had free travel throughout the Greater Denver area (RTD). Bus and light rail.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    That's an open first class return ticket, the most expensive ticket.

    If I buy an advance purchase ticket, I can do it for around £150.

    If I went pleb class I could do it for around £100
    Even pleb class is still amazingly expensive by comparison.
    Indeed. I had to pay something like £120 for the privilege of going from Somerset to Middlesbrough, it brought tears to my eyes.
    You had to go to Middlesbrough?

    You were being punished, what naughty thing did you do to deserve that?

    You said "FPTP is superior to AV" didn't you?
    I would never say that.

    Actually it was on route to Redcar, which may or may not be worse.
    You would say that both AV and FPTP have their merits, and you are reserving judgement for the time being. ;)
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Thanks very much to Harry too!

    The Killing and the Bridge work especially for me because I'm familiar with the languages. The Bridge has even stronger characters in my view, but I thought the last series a bit less good - the interplay with Martin is not quite matched and the detectives don't actually solve that much, with serendipity very important. The Killing has outstanding acting, as Sean says, and I think that keeps going through 2 and 3, so lots of pleasure still to come.

    A quirk: the subtitles consistently jazz up the wording - "damn" becomes "fuck" etc. - Danes and Swedes tend to swear less on the job anyway ("unprofessional") and the Scandinavians thought that underplaying would work better (even the "Killing" title is only in the UK version), but the UK producers thought a UK audience used to UK police series would find the lack of serious swearing unrealistic.

    I was trying to get a sample of the Bridge for an American friend, but you can't get the BBC downloads abroad and the US market only has the US version available. Buying and posting the box set is the only option (I'm considering it!).
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    TomTom Posts: 273
    Nb green rather than teen credentials. Auto correct clearly has simon danczuk in mind.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    edited December 2015
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    Hey big spender. United don't have a premium economy, thankfully for my bank balance ;)
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    That's an open first class return ticket, the most expensive ticket.

    If I buy an advance purchase ticket, I can do it for around £150.

    If I went pleb class I could do it for around £100
    Even pleb class is still amazingly expensive by comparison.
    Indeed. I had to pay something like £120 for the privilege of going from Somerset to Middlesbrough, it brought tears to my eyes.
    You had to go to Middlesbrough?

    You were being punished, what naughty thing did you do to deserve that?

    You said "FPTP is superior to AV" didn't you?
    I would never say that.

    Actually it was on route to Redcar, which may or may not be worse.
    When I was a small kid we used to on holiday to Redcar a couple of times a year.
  • Options

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    I thought the journey was £82 return off-peak.

    BTW I still haven't gone north of Kidsgrove or Alderley Edge into Manchester Piccadilly (but could be doing it as early as Monday).

    Coming tomorrow: Sunil's Great British Railway Review of 2015.
    I recently found www.brfares.com - not that you need it, Dr Prasannan, as I presume you're the proud holder of an All Lines Rover.
  • Options

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    "It's a tragedy that Palpatine was chucked down a reactor rather than being brought to trial!"
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    LOL
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    That's an open first class return ticket, the most expensive ticket.

    If I buy an advance purchase ticket, I can do it for around £150.

    If I went pleb class I could do it for around £100
    Even pleb class is still amazingly expensive by comparison.
    Indeed. I had to pay something like £120 for the privilege of going from Somerset to Middlesbrough, it brought tears to my eyes.
    You had to go to Middlesbrough?

    You were being punished, what naughty thing did you do to deserve that?

    You said "FPTP is superior to AV" didn't you?
    Steady on!

    Stockton to Darlington, first ever passsenger railway (1825).
  • Options

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    You just tap a pad like Oyster. A credit card is limited at over £30. And you are not paying anyway, you are merely linking to a previously validated payment.
    I see no reason why bus journeys and certain rail journeys cannot be paid direct by tapping a card.
    A contactless credit card is not over £30. The limit just went up from £20 to £30 in September
    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited December 2015

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    "It's a tragedy that Palpatine was chucked down a reactor rather than being brought to trial!"
    "Now, I grant you The Empire was brutally repressive and racist, but the Sith were a persecuted minority oppressed by our own decadent capitalist overlords, so really we brought it on ourselves, and it's racist of us to judge their culture of wanting to dominate and torment everyone for the sake of power"
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    AndyJS said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    About 15 years too late.
    What about those paying for other people e.g. buying children a ticket who are travelling alone? How's that going to work?
    As I said in another reply, I strongly doubt that paper will be phased out entirely.
    Thank you.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    "It's a tragedy that Palpatine was chucked down a reactor rather than being brought to trial!"
    "Luke should face trial for killing over a million Imperial contractors on his sickening raid on the Death Star" :D
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Watching Vertigo. Just struck me how much of a pain in the arse driving around SF must be.

    A cab driver told me, IIRC, he had to replace his brakes every 3 months, and his transmission every six...
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    Well, in West Hampstead the fireworks have started a day early.........
  • Options

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    You just tap a pad like Oyster. A credit card is limited at over £30. And you are not paying anyway, you are merely linking to a previously validated payment.
    I see no reason why bus journeys and certain rail journeys cannot be paid direct by tapping a card.
    A contactless credit card is not over £30. The limit just went up from £20 to £30 in September
    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.
    I would imagine this would be alongside an ITSO-compatible smartcard system so that "tickets" can be associated with a smartcard or a bank card.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    edited December 2015
    Also on the TV front, I've just finished the latest Homeland. It's good in its way - strong central characters, some nuances on all sides, plenty of plot twists. It does assume that murder, blackmail and more are more or less OK when the CIA does it, and the Muslim characters tend to vary only from dangerous nutters to nutters with a conscience. In terms of drama I don't think it's ever really recovered from losing Brodie - his ambiguity is what made the original so good.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    I take issue with Our Genial's assertion that Heathrow has been "neutralised". Quite a lot of Londoners, possibly a majority, really really WANT a new runway at Heathrow - people like me - and will be hacked off at both main candidates thereby.

    So these votes might go to the candidate seen as being less religiously anti-Heathrow. That's Khan.

    Either way, I am pretty sure Khan is going to win, unless Corbyn and Co do something brutally lunatic, interim

    Why would a new runway at Heathrow be unpopular? It will bring economic benefits, jobs and increase the airport's capacity.

    Putting the 4th and 5th runways in at Hartsfield generated little opposition as the benefits were obvious.
    It's not unpopular, except among a very vocal group of wealthy middle class people in several marginal West London seats.
    Politics trumps economics and common sense. Imagine my surprise.

    What is the reason for their objection? Given modern jet engines it could hardly be noise, as was the case in the days of KACAN.
    Pollution and noise.

    But if it wasn't that, it would be something else. Basically they live in a very nice part of the country and they want to keep it that way, regardless of the cost to everyone else.
    Do you really think the infrastructure of our country will be improved by adding 50% to the numbers of people blocking the M25? An increase from 2 to 3 is an increase of 50%. It - the M25 - is intolerable now.
    I am not an expert, which is why we had a commission look at the various options and make a recommendation.

    But I'd be happy to encourage the use of trains and have a congestion charge for Heathrow cars if it would make you happier.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    AndyJS said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    About 15 years too late.
    What about those paying for other people e.g. buying children a ticket who are travelling alone? How's that going to work?
    As I said in another reply, I strongly doubt that paper will be phased out entirely.
    Thank you.
    No problem. PB Tory infallibility has yet to be challenged. ;)
    (In all seriousness, I don't have any additional information, I'm just speculating).
  • Options

    Thanks very much to Harry too!

    The Killing and the Bridge work especially for me because I'm familiar with the languages. The Bridge has even stronger characters in my view, but I thought the last series a bit less good - the interplay with Martin is not quite matched and the detectives don't actually solve that much, with serendipity very important. The Killing has outstanding acting, as Sean says, and I think that keeps going through 2 and 3, so lots of pleasure still to come.

    A quirk: the subtitles consistently jazz up the wording - "damn" becomes "fuck" etc. - Danes and Swedes tend to swear less on the job anyway ("unprofessional") and the Scandinavians thought that underplaying would work better (even the "Killing" title is only in the UK version), but the UK producers thought a UK audience used to UK police series would find the lack of serious swearing unrealistic.

    I was trying to get a sample of the Bridge for an American friend, but you can't get the BBC downloads abroad and the US market only has the US version available. Buying and posting the box set is the only option (I'm considering it!).

    I would strongly recommend "Spiral" (Engrenages) to anyone who enjoyed The Bridge or The Killing. Gritty, subtitled French police/lawyer drama with about 10-12 1-hour episodes per series.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    kle4 said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    That's an open first class return ticket, the most expensive ticket.

    If I buy an advance purchase ticket, I can do it for around £150.

    If I went pleb class I could do it for around £100
    Even pleb class is still amazingly expensive by comparison.
    Indeed. I had to pay something like £120 for the privilege of going from Somerset to Middlesbrough, it brought tears to my eyes.
    You had to go to Middlesbrough?

    You were being punished, what naughty thing did you do to deserve that?

    You said "FPTP is superior to AV" didn't you?
    My mother was from Middlesbrough!

    Actually that reminds me of a joke -

    2 men are sitting in a bar discussing the merits of living in various states. Minnesota came up.

    "Minnesota? Nothing comes from Minnesota but hookers and hockey players."

    "My mother is from Minnesota!"

    "Really - what team does she play for?"
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Cyclefree said:

    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.

    Aren't they still based on ancient computers, and they are too scared to change them for fear that they may break down.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    @camillalong: Wow, some really awful people in the New Year's Honours list. Worse than usual

    Did they elaborate?

    Crosby didn't get his royal dukedom. Disappointing. :p
    Lin Horner of HMRC has got one.

    I'm fuming at that.

    I've spent about 3 months of my life on hold to HMRC this year.

    HMRC couldn't organise a pregnancy on a council estate.
    Given that Letwinesque comment I gather you have no ambitions in politics?
    Anyway my state pension has come through seamlessly and is more than I was expecting - they had me tabbed all the way back to nineteen frozen stiff. Those lovely people deserve all the honours going.
    Its a Wonderful Life - such as is left...
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.

    I had my contactless functionality disabled by my bank ;)
  • Options

    Also on the TV front, I've just finished the latest Homeland. It's good in its way - strong central characters, some nuances on all sides, plenty of plot twists. It does assume that murder, blackmail and more are more or less OK when the CIA does it, and the Muslim characters tend to vary only from dangerous nutters to nutters with a conscience. In terms of drama I don't think it's ever really recovered from losing Brodie - his ambiguity is what made the original so good.

    It lost me as soon as in the first season Carrie bonked Brody.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,995
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    I take issue with Our Genial's assertion that Heathrow has been "neutralised". Quite a lot of Londoners, possibly a majority, really really WANT a new runway at Heathrow - people like me - and will be hacked off at both main candidates thereby.

    Putting the 4th and 5th runways in at Hartsfield generated little opposition as the benefits were obvious.
    But if frees up an hour a week of Charles's time no price is too high.
    I'm marginal to any national decision - I will travel as much as I do regardless. Personally I will get significant personal utility from the extra time (It's about a 25% increase in the time I get to spend with my family on days when I travel).

    IANAE when it comes to the traffic and the EVA, but that's why we had an independent commission examine the case in detail. And they unambigiously recommended Heathrow. So that seems to be the logical thing to do.
    Charles - The benefit to you in saving of your time is in the model at £66 per hour.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/439169/economy-updated-transport-economic-efficiency-impacts.pdf

    But if you search the technical papers you will find no mention of the extra cost to London rersidents in terms of noise of pollution. None. We are dismissed as bourgeois nimbys.

    The so-called economic benefits come from a finger in the air assumption buried deep in the spreadsheets. The publically quoted figure is spreaqd over 60 years starting in 2030. The cost will not be borne by the foreign owners of Heathrow but by pasengers in hiked charges and by the taxpayer for the extra infrastructure. The benefits oif this enhanced hub airport will go to the owners of the airport - Ferrovial (25%), Qatar (20%) Quebec (13%) Singapore(11%) China (10%) - not forgetting Charles time saving.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathrow_Airport_Holdings

    There seems to be a knee jerk reaction - they are just nimbys - but examine the case objectively. Davies didn't rule out Gatwick. That's what it will be.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The collapse in the price of oil is a challenge to the old world order

    We’re awash with the black stuff – so we should celebrate the fact that the pessimists got it wrong"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/12075342/The-collapse-in-the-price-of-oil-is-a-challenge-to-the-old-world-order.html
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited December 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Even though the Tories hired Lynton, Labour could have just watched one of his tutorial videos on Youtube !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_YareK6WKk

    Too busy boo-ing and hiss-ing at it to listen to the pearls of wisdom....Its a bit like the rabid hatred of Murdoch, when he has shown time and time again that he seems to have a better feel for the public attitude than any politician.

    You might not like how either operate, but they know their business and their business is knowing how people think and feel, and how to convince them to their side of the argument.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.

    Aren't they still based on ancient computers, and they are too scared to change them for fear that they may break down.
    They are. The systems are old and held together with the IT equivalent of blue tack and string. Hence all the cock ups at RBS and elsewhere. Plus contactless is a perfect excuse for banks to blame customers for any errors/fraud and the rest of it. And it is a hacker's wet dream, frankly. All that information flying around in public. You may as well walk round with your account details and passwords stitched onto the back of your coat in six inch high letters.

    Cyber security within banks is the next big scandal/cock up IMO. Years and years of under-investment and making do and false economies will tell, eventually. Most banks can't even get basic post-trade reporting right, never mind anything else.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.

    I had my contactless functionality disabled by my bank ;)
    Very sensible.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Also on the TV front, I've just finished the latest Homeland. It's good in its way - strong central characters, some nuances on all sides, plenty of plot twists. It does assume that murder, blackmail and more are more or less OK when the CIA does it, and the Muslim characters tend to vary only from dangerous nutters to nutters with a conscience. In terms of drama I don't think it's ever really recovered from losing Brodie - his ambiguity is what made the original so good.

    It lost me as soon as in the first season Carrie bonked Brody.
    For those who don't know, Homeland is a remake of an Israeli TV drama.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have to say that based on my knowledge of banks' IT systems, I don't trust contactless payments at all.

    Aren't they still based on ancient computers, and they are too scared to change them for fear that they may break down.
    Used to work in the IT department of a commercial bank (Lombard). Loads - probably most - of the processing was done on mainframes and AS/400s and was written in languages like COBOL. Updates and code changes were "patched" on top. There were lots of developments to make the front end appear more "modern" to the users, but the basic processing was based on so-called "legacy" systems.

    I can still remember my IT director saying (probably in the late 90s): "I don't think we need to jump onto this internet bandwagon. It's just a fad".

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    An afflestimate? ...I'm still working on the writing, clearly.

    Good night all.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    SeanT said:

    I take issue with Our Genial's assertion that Heathrow has been "neutralised". Quite a lot of Londoners, possibly a majority, really really WANT a new runway at Heathrow - people like me - and will be hacked off at both main candidates thereby.

    So these votes might go to the candidate seen as being less religiously anti-Heathrow. That's Khan.

    Either way, I am pretty sure Khan is going to win, unless Corbyn and Co do something brutally lunatic, interim

    Why would a new runway at Heathrow be unpopular? It will bring economic benefits, jobs and increase the airport's capacity.

    Putting the 4th and 5th runways in at Hartsfield generated little opposition as the benefits were obvious.
    It's not unpopular, except among a very vocal group of wealthy middle class people in several marginal West London seats.
    Politics trumps economics and common sense. Imagine my surprise.

    What is the reason for their objection? Given modern jet engines it could hardly be noise, as was the case in the days of KACAN.
    Pollution and noise.

    But if it wasn't that, it would be something else. Basically they live in a very nice part of the country and they want to keep it that way, regardless of the cost to everyone else.
    Do you really think the infrastructure of our country will be improved by adding 50% to the numbers of people blocking the M25? An increase from 2 to 3 is an increase of 50%. It - the M25 - is intolerable now.
    I am not an expert, which is why we had a commission look at the various options and make a recommendation.

    But I'd be happy to encourage the use of trains and have a congestion charge for Heathrow cars if it would make you happier.
    I'm not an expert but I have two eyes and use the M25.

    As for commissions - now there is a hostage to fortune.
    http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/the-flaws-in-the-case-for-heathrow

    I link to the above not because I think (or know that) its opinion is flawless, but that it makes valid points worth considering. But this surely is the flashing warning light - ''Since the proposed runway crosses the M25 and demands new access routes, associated roadworks at Heathrow will add an extra £5bn to the total for an all-in cost of £23bn''

    'crosses the M25' No thanks.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Affluenza
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    First Class = Snob Class
    Business Class = Spiv Class
    Economy = Steerage

    :lol:
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, in West Hampstead the fireworks have started a day early.........

    Ed Davey has been given a knighthood. In good company as he joins Sir Danny Alexander and Sir Vince Cable. I'll say this for the Tories, they aren't entirely ungrateful.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    I'm on the breadline but am in the fortunate position of having absolutely no intention of going to Bangkok. Anyone who wants to go to Bangkok is welcome to and I do not give a stuff how much they pay or even if they paddle there.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited December 2015
    Totally OT, but I'm likely to have a spare early evening in York next week. Is Scarborough worth the train journey?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Tim_B said:



    For those who don't know, Homeland is a remake of an Israeli TV drama.

    Yes - has anyone seen that? And have they diverged, or are there 5 sets of Israeli instalments with similar themes?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Funny enough I saw an airport thriller by a writer called Tom Fox yesterday whilst in the departure lounge. Similar sort of thing to what you write I think. I'd keep an eye on him.
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Totally OT, but I'm likely to have a spare early evening in York next week. Is Scarborough worth the train journey?

    Sadly haven't done much of Yorkshire by train. But if I had a spare evening in York, I'd check out the railway museum (which, again, I haven't done!).
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Also on the TV front, I've just finished the latest Homeland. It's good in its way - strong central characters, some nuances on all sides, plenty of plot twists. It does assume that murder, blackmail and more are more or less OK when the CIA does it, and the Muslim characters tend to vary only from dangerous nutters to nutters with a conscience. In terms of drama I don't think it's ever really recovered from losing Brodie - his ambiguity is what made the original so good.

    It lost me as soon as in the first season Carrie bonked Brody.
    For those who don't know, Homeland is a remake of an Israeli TV drama.
    I did not know that, but I've never watched Homeland. Damien Lewis is a good actor and was good in Band of Brothers. Its a pity he ventures into being a numpty on HIGNFY.
    I have to confess I am a bit of a Poirot and Frost man - and Lewis was indeed in both.

    All these series end up jumping the shark if they go on long enough. And then art disappears.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    "The collapse in the price of oil is a challenge to the old world order

    We’re awash with the black stuff – so we should celebrate the fact that the pessimists got it wrong"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/12075342/The-collapse-in-the-price-of-oil-is-a-challenge-to-the-old-world-order.html

    Yes. Have we reached peak hubris yet?
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    edited December 2015
    I doubt you realise quite what a narcissistic prick you actually are. That is the nature of it I guess. If you did I doubt that you would post this.
    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    edited December 2015
    SeanT said:


    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Yes, suspect that's right. I tried Norwegian Air to the US this week and was impressed - 25% cheaper than all the competition, very modern Boeings with all mod cons (and all free unlike the Ryanair model), decent leg room even in economy, pleasant multinational staff. I believe the owner is controversial in Norway as he's an outspoken tycoon, but as a product it's good. Only snag is that to get the saving you need to travel light (one medium-sized case and a briefcase), not care where you sit and either buy onboard snacks or bring your own. All of those were fine with me for a week's trip.

    But I don't really understand jetlag anyway. I work on a laptop on flights and it's very like working at home, or I watch a movie and it's very like watching TV, or if I'm sleepy I sleep. I've been to China and back on a 3-day trip and although it was mildly disconcerting to adjust to the times it was really no big deal. Came home from JFK this morning, had an hour's snooze in the afternoon, and I feel much as usual. If you suffer for days, maybe you should look at taking a mild sleeping pill (as I do)?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946

    Mortimer said:

    Totally OT, but I'm likely to have a spare early evening in York next week. Is Scarborough worth the train journey?

    Sadly haven't done much of Yorkshire by train. But if I had a spare evening in York, I'd check out the railway museum (which, again, I haven't done!).
    A great idea - thanks Sunil. I ought to get an hour or so. Usually in too much of a rush at York, arriving or leaving for trade fairs at the racecourse stupidly early in the morning/late in the evening...

    Will be nice to be a bit more leisurely.

    Anyone have any tips for a nice place for dining alone in the city? I tried the Blue Bicycle last time; not hugely impressed.
  • Options

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    "It's a tragedy that Palpatine was chucked down a reactor rather than being brought to trial!"
    The Momentum army are a bunch of clones and as such have no original or unique thought between them.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    @ThatTimWalker: This looks very much like the #honourslist of a Government that is only too well aware it faces no serious Opposition.

    The Opposition comes from The Daily Mail which hates Cameron because he won't give the Editor, Paul Dacre, a peerage.

  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I always think it depends what you are flying for. If you are really excited, the trip there is seamless, but coming back (to work invariably) hits you hard. The Vegas flights are typical- outwards, boisterous and drunken, inwards, sleepy and quiet.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:



    For those who don't know, Homeland is a remake of an Israeli TV drama.

    Yes - has anyone seen that? And have they diverged, or are there 5 sets of Israeli instalments with similar themes?
    I have the dvds, but have yet to watch all of it. It's called Prisoners of War.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/arts/television/prisoners-of-war-the-israeli-original-of-homeland.html?_r=0

    I buy quite a few dvd box sets from amazon.co.uk - The Killing, Lewis, Downton etc.

    DVDs from the UK - Region 2- will NOT play on dvd players in North America - Region 1.

    If you have a Sony or Panasonic dvd player you are screwed. They are hard wired. Most other dvd players can be 'hacked'. Typically it's by entering a 6 digit code on the remote.

    Just google the model of your player plus region hack and you should be fine. You can also buy multi-region dvd players on amazon.com.

    Another benefit of buying from amazon.co.uk from ooutside Europe is that there is no VAT and even with shipping charges it's still cheaper than buying in the UK.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Possibly my second favourite tweet of 2015

    https://twitter.com/Tatooine_M/status/682214338195795968

    "It's a tragedy that Palpatine was chucked down a reactor rather than being brought to trial!"
    The Momentum army are a bunch of clones and as such have no original or unique thought between them.
    Apart from the satire ones ;)
  • Options

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Funny enough I saw an airport thriller by a writer called Tom Fox yesterday whilst in the departure lounge. Similar sort of thing to what you write I think. I'd keep an eye on him.
    Was it part of a buy 3 get 4 offer?
    :-)
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    perdix said:



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

    Yes, I can see why it's helpful for visitors from outside London. But what's in it for TfL, who have a virtual monopoly and make more money from Oyster? I don't think it's benevolent concern for tourists, since they cheerfully stuffed visitors two years ago when they abolished cash.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946

    perdix said:



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

    Yes, I can see why it's helpful for visitors from outside London. But what's in it for TfL, who have a virtual monopoly and make more money from Oyster? I don't think it's benevolent concern for tourists, since they cheerfully stuffed visitors two years ago when they abolished cash.
    Not sure how they would make more money from Oyster. Transaction costs will likely be a (very low) % - whether the £4.65 for a day-ticket is taken off a card directly or off an Oyster card which had been topped up to £20.

    I suppose there must be a significant amount residing on oyster cards in desk drawers - but the option of expanded markets and not having to administer the system must be more tempting.
  • Options

    perdix said:



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

    Yes, I can see why it's helpful for visitors from outside London. But what's in it for TfL, who have a virtual monopoly and make more money from Oyster? I don't think it's benevolent concern for tourists, since they cheerfully stuffed visitors two years ago when they abolished cash.
    Are you certain they earn more money? I don't think you'd be at all accurate in saying there's no marginal admin costs to running Oyster - while if they can abolish Oyster altogether as obsolete there could be even more advantages.

    I fail to see why abolishing cash is harmful to tourists, unless it is tourists from the 1950s why would they need to use cash? I live in the North West and have used plastic (not cash) every time I have been to London to buy tickets.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited December 2015
    tyson said:

    I always think it depends what you are flying for. If you are really excited, the trip there is seamless, but coming back (to work invariably) hits you hard. The Vegas flights are typical- outwards, boisterous and drunken, inwards, sleepy and quiet.

    It's the nature of the beast - westbound to the US tends to leave mid-morning and land late afternoon (East Coast) with a 5 hour time change.

    Eastbound tends to leave early evening and arrive early morning - typically 6-8am.

    Eastbound you lose a night's sleep, westbound it's just like staying up late.

    For me eastbound it's about a 10 hour flight to the UK, westbound about 11.

    In my experience jet lag is much worse eastbound than westbound.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    An afflestimate? ...I'm still working on the writing, clearly.

    Good night all.
    Affluenza was the best term I heard, although obviously just for the general condition rather than a specific incidence
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    SeanT said:


    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Yes, suspect that's right. I tried Norwegian Air to the US this week and was impressed - 25% cheaper than all the competition, very modern Boeings with all mod cons (and all free unlike the Ryanair model), decent leg room even in economy, pleasant multinational staff. I believe the owner is controversial in Norway as he's an outspoken tycoon, but as a product it's good. Only snag is that to get the saving you need to travel light (one medium-sized case and a briefcase), not care where you sit and either buy onboard snacks or bring your own. All of those were fine with me for a week's trip.

    But I don't really understand jetlag anyway. I work on a laptop on flights and it's very like working at home, or I watch a movie and it's very like watching TV, or if I'm sleepy I sleep. I've been to China and back on a 3-day trip and although it was mildly disconcerting to adjust to the times it was really no big deal. Came home from JFK this morning, had an hour's snooze in the afternoon, and I feel much as usual. If you suffer for days, maybe you should look at taking a mild sleeping pill (as I do)?
    China and JFK are easy. One is an overnight flight back, the other is a short hop - just like a short night.

    California back to London is a killer, as is London to Hong Kong red eye.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    perdix said:



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

    Yes, I can see why it's helpful for visitors from outside London. But what's in it for TfL, who have a virtual monopoly and make more money from Oyster? I don't think it's benevolent concern for tourists, since they cheerfully stuffed visitors two years ago when they abolished cash.
    Are you certain they earn more money? I don't think you'd be at all accurate in saying there's no marginal admin costs to running Oyster - while if they can abolish Oyster altogether as obsolete there could be even more advantages.

    I fail to see why abolishing cash is harmful to tourists, unless it is tourists from the 1950s why would they need to use cash? I live in the North West and have used plastic (not cash) every time I have been to London to buy tickets.
    I've not carried cash for years. I was finally undone when I had to buy a stamp for a 'get well' card. So now I keep a change purse in the car.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214

    perdix said:



    The aim of the card industry is to make more use of contactless. And whilst you are correct about direct payment, as I pointed out its a check not a payment, the payment is done earlier.
    The issue that comes to mind is if the booking is for more than one person.

    Something I don't understand is why Transport for London are pushing contactless so hard, with constant announcements that it's just as cheap as Oyster and doesn't involve topping up (Oyster can be automatically topped up too). Unless they play to phase out Oyster, they can't save on the admin, and surely they get 100% of Oyster revenue while there's a deduction for cards?
    I found contactless payment on the Overground, Bus and Tube during my recent visit to be really convenient. No messing about with setting up an account with Oyster. And it remembered to cap my daily cost.

    Yes, I can see why it's helpful for visitors from outside London. But what's in it for TfL, who have a virtual monopoly and make more money from Oyster? I don't think it's benevolent concern for tourists, since they cheerfully stuffed visitors two years ago when they abolished cash.
    Are you certain they earn more money? I don't think you'd be at all accurate in saying there's no marginal admin costs to running Oyster - while if they can abolish Oyster altogether as obsolete there could be even more advantages.

    I fail to see why abolishing cash is harmful to tourists, unless it is tourists from the 1950s why would they need to use cash? I live in the North West and have used plastic (not cash) every time I have been to London to buy tickets.

    Not all visitors have contactless cards. This morning at our bus stop there were 4 adults and children, all visitors. They got on the bus and the lady started using her card to pay. But the driver said that there had to be a different card for each passenger which they didn't have. So she lost the money she'd paid, was rudely told she couldn't get refunded, they were all turfed out and had no means of getting around despite having money to pay.

    I am pretty cynical about all these measures. Their primary and overriding purpose, notwithstanding all the talk about how convenient it is for customers, is to save costs for banks and other organisations. That is all. Any benefit to us is a happy accident. The inconvenience caused to some is of no concern. And the disadvantages and risks to us are glossed over or poo-poohed.
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    Totally OT, but I'm likely to have a spare early evening in York next week. Is Scarborough worth the train journey?

    Sadly haven't done much of Yorkshire by train. But if I had a spare evening in York, I'd check out the railway museum (which, again, I haven't done!).
    !!!!!!

    I'm astonished. Get ye to York young man.

    For me, Scarborough of an evening this time of year isn't so enticing. But in more amenable climes and times, it's worth a run out.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Charles said:

    SeanT said:


    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Yes, suspect that's right. I tried Norwegian Air to the US this week and was impressed - 25% cheaper than all the competition, very modern Boeings with all mod cons (and all free unlike the Ryanair model), decent leg room even in economy, pleasant multinational staff. I believe the owner is controversial in Norway as he's an outspoken tycoon, but as a product it's good. Only snag is that to get the saving you need to travel light (one medium-sized case and a briefcase), not care where you sit and either buy onboard snacks or bring your own. All of those were fine with me for a week's trip.

    But I don't really understand jetlag anyway. I work on a laptop on flights and it's very like working at home, or I watch a movie and it's very like watching TV, or if I'm sleepy I sleep. I've been to China and back on a 3-day trip and although it was mildly disconcerting to adjust to the times it was really no big deal. Came home from JFK this morning, had an hour's snooze in the afternoon, and I feel much as usual. If you suffer for days, maybe you should look at taking a mild sleeping pill (as I do)?
    China and JFK are easy. One is an overnight flight back, the other is a short hop - just like a short night.

    California back to London is a killer, as is London to Hong Kong red eye.
    London to Tokyo was my worst ever jet-lag. Somehow going to New Zealand was so extreme your body copes with something that crazy. But Japan was just not crazy enough....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    edited December 2015

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:


    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Yes, suspect that's right. I tried Norwegian Air to the US this week and was impressed - 25% cheaper than all the competition, very modern Boeings with all mod cons (and all free unlike the Ryanair model), decent leg room even in economy, pleasant multinational staff. I believe the owner is controversial in Norway as he's an outspoken tycoon, but as a product it's good. Only snag is that to get the saving you need to travel light (one medium-sized case and a briefcase), not care where you sit and either buy onboard snacks or bring your own. All of those were fine with me for a week's trip.

    But I don't really understand jetlag anyway. I work on a laptop on flights and it's very like working at home, or I watch a movie and it's very like watching TV, or if I'm sleepy I sleep. I've been to China and back on a 3-day trip and although it was mildly disconcerting to adjust to the times it was really no big deal. Came home from JFK this morning, had an hour's snooze in the afternoon, and I feel much as usual. If you suffer for days, maybe you should look at taking a mild sleeping pill (as I do)?
    China and JFK are easy. One is an overnight flight back, the other is a short hop - just like a short night.

    California back to London is a killer, as is London to Hong Kong red eye.
    London to Tokyo was my worst ever jet-lag. Somehow going to New Zealand was so extreme your body copes with something that crazy. But Japan was just not crazy enough....
    Quite similar timezone shifts though. Probably has to do with the insane travel time to NZ. I've done that a fair few times, the first time was awful, was awake all night for a week!
  • Options
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I've found Virgin Premium Economy a more consistently reliable product than their Upper Class - the seats are like business class seats of the eighties with plenty of space...and the price is about a third.....
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,709
    edited December 2015
    LucyJones said:

    Thanks very much to Harry too!

    The Killing and the Bridge work especially for me because I'm familiar with the languages. The Bridge has even stronger characters in my view, but I thought the last series a bit less good - the interplay with Martin is not quite matched and the detectives don't actually solve that much, with serendipity very important. The Killing has outstanding acting, as Sean says, and I think that keeps going through 2 and 3, so lots of pleasure still to come.

    A quirk: the subtitles consistently jazz up the wording - "damn" becomes "fuck" etc. - Danes and Swedes tend to swear less on the job anyway ("unprofessional") and the Scandinavians thought that underplaying would work better (even the "Killing" title is only in the UK version), but the UK producers thought a UK audience used to UK police series would find the lack of serious swearing unrealistic.

    I was trying to get a sample of the Bridge for an American friend, but you can't get the BBC downloads abroad and the US market only has the US version available. Buying and posting the box set is the only option (I'm considering it!).

    I would strongly recommend "Spiral" (Engrenages) to anyone who enjoyed The Bridge or The Killing. Gritty, subtitled French police/lawyer drama with about 10-12 1-hour episodes per series.

    Another vote for 'Spiral' - like 'The Bridge', 'The Killing' and 'Borgen' strong, flawed, central female characters - and not afraid of bumping off leading players either.....
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2015
    O/T:

    For fans of early 80s music, this is one of the best things from that period IMO — Trevor Horn's long version of The Look of Love by ABC from 1982:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8kvYkwyTak
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    On topic - thank you Harry Hayfield for a consistently interesting and informative series of posts throughout the year - its the week-to-week grind of winning council seats that ultimately leads to Westminster....
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:


    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    Yes, suspect that's right. I tried Norwegian Air to the US this week and was impressed - 25% cheaper than all the competition, very modern Boeings with all mod cons (and all free unlike the Ryanair model), decent leg room even in economy, pleasant multinational staff. I believe the owner is controversial in Norway as he's an outspoken tycoon, but as a product it's good. Only snag is that to get the saving you need to travel light (one medium-sized case and a briefcase), not care where you sit and either buy onboard snacks or bring your own. All of those were fine with me for a week's trip.

    But I don't really understand jetlag anyway. I work on a laptop on flights and it's very like working at home, or I watch a movie and it's very like watching TV, or if I'm sleepy I sleep. I've been to China and back on a 3-day trip and although it was mildly disconcerting to adjust to the times it was really no big deal. Came home from JFK this morning, had an hour's snooze in the afternoon, and I feel much as usual. If you suffer for days, maybe you should look at taking a mild sleeping pill (as I do)?
    China and JFK are easy. One is an overnight flight back, the other is a short hop - just like a short night.

    California back to London is a killer, as is London to Hong Kong red eye.
    London to Tokyo was my worst ever jet-lag. Somehow going to New Zealand was so extreme your body copes with something that crazy. But Japan was just not crazy enough....
    Same category: take off in the morning UK time, can't sleep, land in the morning Asian time...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    On topic - thank you Harry Hayfield for a consistently interesting and informative series of posts throughout the year - its the week-to-week grind of winning council seats that ultimately leads to Westminster....

    51 weeks of the year they are the most important elections in the realm! ;)
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    tyson said:

    I doubt you realise quite what a narcissistic prick you actually are. That is the nature of it I guess. If you did I doubt that you would post this.

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    SeanT has been such a long time poster to PB, that we knew him before he became the ultra famous mega best selling novelist. He's had his ups and downs in his life, and he has hit it pretty fine as of late. Why begrudge him the success and affluence that brings??
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    Film showing a ride on the DLR at Canary Wharf in 1991:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVawD2l1I0
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    One for Sunil

    End of the paper train ticket as railways 'go paperless'

    Exclusive: Passengers will be able "buy" journeys online and travel carrying just the bank card with which they paid, The Telegraph can reveal

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/12075299/End-of-the-paper-train-ticket-as-railways-go-paperless.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I've found Virgin Premium Economy a more consistently reliable product than their Upper Class - the seats are like business class seats of the eighties with plenty of space...and the price is about a third.....
    I won't write my (informed) views on Branson here, as I suspect it would get OGH in trouble. But suffice to say that I won't work with him and I won't buy from companies in which he has a significant role.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Clinton's lead over Trump down to an average of 5 points:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
  • Options
    notme said:

    tyson said:

    I doubt you realise quite what a narcissistic prick you actually are. That is the nature of it I guess. If you did I doubt that you would post this.

    SeanT said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Surely that will take a lot longer for the guard to check. It can't be done contactless because there is a £30 limit on that at the moment.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking, especially when I do my regular travel from Manchester Piccadilly to Euston, and the ticket is close to £500
    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.
    £470 is the full fare 1st class return, and there's really very little excuse for anyone ever paying it. Especially for regular travel.
    Like paying £10k for a first class airline ticket to the states. Much cheaper to use air miles ;)
    Why would anyone ever pay for themselves to go business or first?

    I do pay for premium economy, but then I am a spendthrift.
    I'm paying for myself to go Biz to Bangkok in about a week. Which I do regularly.

    Eva Air. £2500. It is absurd when you look at it logically, but then, I can afford it, and long haul Economy is fucking miserable...

    I justify it by saying that 12 hours in Economy means 5 days of horrible jet lag whereas 12 hours in Biz means 2 days of modest jet lag, so I gain two or three working days.

    I doubt I'd accept this rationale if I was on the breadline. indeed there's probably an economic term for "over-estimating the benefits of luxury when you are affluent". And if there isn't, there should be.

    SeanT has been such a long time poster to PB, that we knew him before he became the ultra famous mega best selling novelist. He's had his ups and downs in his life, and he has hit it pretty fine as of late. Why begrudge him the success and affluence that brings??
    Yes - I file his 'bragging' under 'make hay while the sun shines' too.....
  • Options
    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.

    Doubt it would work - two southern Tea Party politicians would unbalance the ticket.

    He needs a Christie or someone from the rustbelt to balance his weaknesses. Male/female is a more respectable proposal, although are there any sane female Republicans?
  • Options
    Charles said:

    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.

    Doubt it would work - two southern Tea Party politicians would unbalance the ticket.

    He needs a Christie or someone from the rustbelt to balance his weaknesses. Male/female is a more respectable proposal, although are there any sane female Republicans?
    I'm certainly not expecting Nikki Haley to be Rubio's (or indeed anyone else's) actual pick. This bet is purely about the unnamed "Gender Balance". As regards your last point .... I simply don't know!
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:


    Not all visitors have contactless cards. This morning at our bus stop there were 4 adults and children, all visitors. They got on the bus and the lady started using her card to pay. But the driver said that there had to be a different card for each passenger which they didn't have. So she lost the money she'd paid, was rudely told she couldn't get refunded, they were all turfed out and had no means of getting around despite having money to pay.

    I am pretty cynical about all these measures. Their primary and overriding purpose, notwithstanding all the talk about how convenient it is for customers, is to save costs for banks and other organisations. That is all. Any benefit to us is a happy accident. The inconvenience caused to some is of no concern. And the disadvantages and risks to us are glossed over or poo-poohed.

    Yes, I have seen the same thing on the tube just last week -- a mother trying to pay for her children on her contactless card, and failing because the system insists on one card per person (and I suppose the good part of this is it rules out passengers being accidentally double-charged for one journey).
  • Options
    There is mounting evidence of Crosby's knighthood, so I might have been wrong to doubt the Sunday Times leak.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.

    Doubt it would work - two southern Tea Party politicians would unbalance the ticket.

    He needs a Christie or someone from the rustbelt to balance his weaknesses. Male/female is a more respectable proposal, although are there any sane female Republicans?
    I'm certainly not expecting Nikki Haley to be Rubio's (or indeed anyone else's) actual pick. This bet is purely about the unnamed "Gender Balance". As regards your last point .... I simply don't know!
    To clarify... I mean any sane female Republican politicans

    *looks nervously over shoulder*

    "Coming dear!"
  • Options

    There is mounting evidence of Crosby's knighthood, so I might have been wrong to doubt the Sunday Times leak.

    Mr Burnham said Sir Lynton's knighthood suggested "the Tories think they can get away with whatever they like".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35201149

    Yes, petal.

    Whose fault's that then?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Donald Trump will start spending $2 million a week "maybe much more" for a month starting next week. Why? He's getting so much free media it's amazing. He's even on Fox News New Years Eve show counting down to midnight and the dropping of the ball in Times Square.

    He's also warned Hillary that if she plays the woman card or 'war on women' he'll go after her and Bill. For those with a short memory Hillary was more than instrumental in destroying the reputations of Paula Jones, Genifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky.

    Incidentally (and off topic) I am seeing a ton of JEB and Rubio ads on TV here in Georgia but nobody else.
  • Options
    A little history for (younger) Labour posters - or older ones with short memories.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kagan,_Baron_Kagan
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.

    Doubt it would work - two southern Tea Party politicians would unbalance the ticket.

    He needs a Christie or someone from the rustbelt to balance his weaknesses. Male/female is a more respectable proposal, although are there any sane female Republicans?
    I'm certainly not expecting Nikki Haley to be Rubio's (or indeed anyone else's) actual pick. This bet is purely about the unnamed "Gender Balance". As regards your last point .... I simply don't know!
    To clarify... I mean any sane female Republican politicans

    *looks nervously over shoulder*

    "Coming dear!"
    Nikki Haley is a very sane Republican female.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Film showing a ride on the DLR at Canary Wharf in 1991:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVawD2l1I0

    Ah, I'd not realised South Quay had been moved. That might explain why I could not quite work out my old walk to work last week.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    ***** BETTING POST *****

    In their admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek predictions for 2016, Fortune Magazine has Marco Rubio winning the Republican nomination, with him selecting 43 year old South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate.
    Although by definition this has to be a longshot, it would nevertheless make a great deal of sense for Rubio (or indeed any other successful male GOP nominee) to pick a female number two on the ticket, not least to counter the would-be novelty of Hillary Clinton being the first of the fairer sex, if that is the appropriate term, to become POTUS.
    I think this is a likely proposition and those nice people at Paddy Power are offering odds of 9/4 against such a Male - Female "Gender Balance" on the Republican ticket. They restricted me to a maximum stake of £8.48 on this bet, thereby limiting my potential profit to £19.08.
    As ever, DYOR.

    Doubt it would work - two southern Tea Party politicians would unbalance the ticket.

    He needs a Christie or someone from the rustbelt to balance his weaknesses. Male/female is a more respectable proposal, although are there any sane female Republicans?
    I'm certainly not expecting Nikki Haley to be Rubio's (or indeed anyone else's) actual pick. This bet is purely about the unnamed "Gender Balance". As regards your last point .... I simply don't know!
    To clarify... I mean any sane female Republican politicans

    *looks nervously over shoulder*

    "Coming dear!"
    Nikki Haley is a very sane Republican female.
    How many goes did she take to get the right answer to a "yes/no" question on the Confederate Battle Flag?
This discussion has been closed.